Author Topic: How to know if you're rich  (Read 39637 times)

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2016, 12:57:19 AM »
Then sure looking at assets, net worth and years it took to generate a profit would make sense. But the op said nothing about a business owner . . . Not sure why you would bring that up.


Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2016, 01:01:02 AM »
Then sure looking at assets, net worth and years it took to generate a profit would make sense. But the op said nothing about a business owner . . . Not sure why you would bring that up.

Because you only mentioned income in determining 'rich'ness

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2016, 01:03:19 AM »
Ah I get it just being obtuse. Everyone in this thread is talking about regular income I should have focused on business income, gotcha!

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2016, 01:12:51 AM »
Ah I get it just being obtuse. Everyone in this thread is talking about regular income I should have focused on business income, gotcha!

Just pointing out a scenario where assets may play a part in measuring wealth. There was no need to insult anyone.

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2016, 01:24:12 AM »
For a sole proprietor business look at net income for a corporation you would pay yourself a salary or dividends that become your income. Same principle still applies so your gotcha scenario doesn't really prove your point at all.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2016, 01:58:06 AM »
For a sole proprietor business look at net income for a corporation you would pay yourself a salary or dividends that become your income. Same principle still applies so your gotcha scenario doesn't really prove your point at all.

I made no point. I asked a question.

libertarian4321

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1395
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2016, 02:24:06 AM »
There is no math for "rich". It's a relative term. You have to define it for your own.

Yup.

I grew up in a lower middle class (at best) working class family.

When my net worth hit $10k, I thought "That's a shit ton of money!"

When I hit $100k, I thought "Damn, I can spend on whatever I want."

When I hit $500k, I thought "I could not work for 10 years and not have to worry, this is great"

When I hit $1 million, I thought "Holy crap, I never thought I'd be anywhere near that amount."  I can stop scrounging and start giving serious money to charity.

When I hit $3 million, I started to think "Wow, this is insane.  We never thought we'd have this much."

But you know what?  Even though our net worth is somewhere between 3.5 and 4 million, we still don't feel rich.  We know we can retire (but haven't- I'm working a low stress, but still "full time" job, but the wife is still working long hours, though I've told her she doesn't have to).

If you'd asked me when I was 25 if 3.5+ million was rich, I would have said "of course (envisioning yachts and lifestyles of the rich and famous). 

At $3.5 million+, we don't have "job loss stress," we give a lot more to charity, we can give to anything we think is important.  I'm up late (basically all night) playing "nurse" to three rescue dogs for which we just paid $2K+ to have veterinary attention.

But honestly, we don't feel "rich." We still live middle class lives.

And I'm guessing that to the elitists of the world, like the Clinton's and Trump's of the world, we look poor.


human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2016, 02:40:34 AM »
Ha metric mouse got me! You're right it was just a question of course. Sorry, woke up at 3 and had my back up for some reason.

I do find it strange that some people equate rich with a feeling or state of mind. When I hit a million in assets and have my pension coming even if I spend 25k a year I will know not feel that I am mega rich.

Davids

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Somewhere in the USA.
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2016, 06:45:28 AM »
Rich and FI are 2 different things. You can be FI but not rich but also one can be rich but not FI.

#MindBlown

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2016, 08:33:37 AM »
You may or may not feel rich at any particular net worth.

But the fact that you are measuring your net worth and are in a (presumably) western nation with access to all sorts of great things, as well as are contemplating the capability of being FI means in general that you are rich.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2016, 08:41:03 AM »

__ # of designer clothing items or purses you own



Haha - designer purses - any girl into designer purses could have 0 on every item on that list with 10 next to designer purses. 
 
Well she must be rich! I can't spend in the neighborhood of 100k on purses ($10k x10), even on credit.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I guess you equate designer to only one purse manufacturer then.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2016, 08:49:46 AM »
There is no math for "rich". It's a relative term. You have to define it for your own.

Yup.

I grew up in a lower middle class (at best) working class family.

When my net worth hit $10k, I thought "That's a shit ton of money!"

When I hit $100k, I thought "Damn, I can spend on whatever I want."

When I hit $500k, I thought "I could not work for 10 years and not have to worry, this is great"

When I hit $1 million, I thought "Holy crap, I never thought I'd be anywhere near that amount."  I can stop scrounging and start giving serious money to charity.

When I hit $3 million, I started to think "Wow, this is insane.  We never thought we'd have this much."

But you know what?  Even though our net worth is somewhere between 3.5 and 4 million, we still don't feel rich.  We know we can retire (but haven't- I'm working a low stress, but still "full time" job, but the wife is still working long hours, though I've told her she doesn't have to).

If you'd asked me when I was 25 if 3.5+ million was rich, I would have said "of course (envisioning yachts and lifestyles of the rich and famous). 

At $3.5 million+, we don't have "job loss stress," we give a lot more to charity, we can give to anything we think is important.  I'm up late (basically all night) playing "nurse" to three rescue dogs for which we just paid $2K+ to have veterinary attention.

But honestly, we don't feel "rich." We still live middle class lives.

And I'm guessing that to the elitists of the world, like the Clinton's and Trump's of the world, we look poor.

Great post!   It's like scaling mountains. You sit at your house, look outside and make it a goal to scale that mountain you see.  You think of how proud and accomplished you will be sitting atop that peak.  You get to the top of the local mountain only to look across the valley at a higher mountain and think, "I need to scale that peak to feel accomplished."  You get there and the cycle repeats.

I guess this is what they call lifestyle goal inflation.

BTDretire

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3074
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2016, 10:20:09 AM »

What about a business owner who makes a million dollars in income, but spends $950,000 in supplies/insurance/staffing costs etc? Would they still be 'rich'?

 The business owner didn't make a million dollars, the business's gross income was
a million dollars, the net was $50,000. The business owner needs to take a hard look at why his profits are so low.

ender

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7402
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2016, 11:51:57 AM »
I feel rich because I very rarely worry about money.


Bateaux

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2323
  • Location: Port Vincent
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2016, 06:03:01 PM »
You guys are crazy saying $10m+ makes you rich.

According to:
https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/
$10m puts you in the top 0.5% of Americans.
The top 10% is just under $1m, if you have that, you're certainly rich.

We're approaching the top 5% accordingly but certainly don't feel rich.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2016, 06:06:12 PM »

What about a business owner who makes a million dollars in income, but spends $950,000 in supplies/insurance/staffing costs etc? Would they still be 'rich'?

 The business owner didn't make a million dollars, the business's gross income was
a million dollars, the net was $50,000. The business owner needs to take a hard look at why his profits are so low.

Probably has to do with buying domestic materials and not outsourcing labor to a more economical locale.

PseudoStache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2016, 07:29:12 PM »
As a degreed individual, I like this one:
https://dqydj.com/net-worth-of-full-time-workers-with-degrees-in-the-united-states/

Puts things into a little more perspective for me, and probably a better barometer for me as well.  Based on the fact that these are 2013 numbers, i assume the bar has been raised even further in 2016 with markets at all time highs.

I don't think I would feel rich unless I were FI with the ability to buy "reasonable" luxury goods/services on a whim, such as a $100K car, first class international travel a few times a year, dining out without even looking at the bill.... Folks that buy jets/yachts/bugattis/$10K purses = Filthy Rich.

With a paid off McMansion, I would say that is about $250k per year to make ME feel rich... or $6.25MM Investable Net Worth.

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2016, 06:10:51 AM »
The lack of perspective in this thread has me feeling a bit sad.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2016, 06:25:43 AM »
I will consider myself rich when I am able to join elite clubs where the fees are ridiculous just to keep the poors out. 

People think having LV on their purse makes them perceived as rich, wait until I pull out a hat that is like the one Neil Patrick Harris is wearing.




Those live toddler hats can be quite expensive, but you can often grow your own.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2016, 09:35:41 AM »
I will consider myself rich when I am able to join elite clubs where the fees are ridiculous just to keep the poors out. 

People think having LV on their purse makes them perceived as rich, wait until I pull out a hat that is like the one Neil Patrick Harris is wearing.




Those live toddler hats can be quite expensive, but you can often grow your own.

I hear that getting the natural resources prepared to grow them is actually quite easy.  However, the upkeep is where they start to cost a lot!


The lack of perspective in this thread has me feeling a bit sad.

I know... I am not sure why that guy posted about being rich in comparison to the world's population. 

In that case, I am in the elite club of the world's best people because I am in the .00001% of all attributes that make's one desirable. 

A partner wants someone who saves money? I save more money than people make in the world. 
A partner wants someone who spends money? I spend more money than most people make in the world.
A partner wants someone who..

HAPPYINAZ

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2016, 09:51:13 AM »
Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but here is a link to a free website to calculate your wealth index.  Basically gives you an idea where you rate compared to others of similar age and income.

http://www.hughcalc.org/wealth.cgi


SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2016, 10:19:52 AM »
Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but here is a link to a free website to calculate your wealth index.  Basically gives you an idea where you rate compared to others of similar age and income.

http://www.hughcalc.org/wealth.cgi

Interesting, but it seems to assume that  one has been earning that income for X number of years.  However, younger people are at a point in their careers where they see the steepest income growth.

For example, in the past 10 years my personal income has nearly doubled with my wife's income more than doubling. However, I highly doubt that in 10 years, our incomes will be anywhere near twice they are today.

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4142
  • Location: WDC
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2016, 11:07:18 AM »
A woman is widowed and she and her children receive life insurance benefits purchased by her husband.  The life insurance company and everyone else who knows what she received think she is rich.  Set for life. 
Woman moves to be closer to family and chooses a town with some of the best public schools in the country.  By moving into this town, she moves into a very nice home.  The children grow up in this town knowing they are in the "poor section" and they know not to ask for things that aren't needs.  They also know not to expect the same things their classmates get. 

This is a true story.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2016, 06:21:26 PM »
The lack of perspective in this thread has me feeling a bit sad.

I know... I am not sure why that guy posted about being rich in comparison to the world's population. 

Perspective.

Also...irony...

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2016, 06:28:09 PM »
A woman is widowed and she and her children receive life insurance benefits purchased by her husband.  The life insurance company and everyone else who knows what she received think she is rich.  Set for life. 
Woman moves to be closer to family and chooses a town with some of the best public schools in the country.  By moving into this town, she moves into a very nice home.  The children grow up in this town knowing they are in the "poor section" and they know not to ask for things that aren't needs.  They also know not to expect the same things their classmates get. 

This is a true story.

And what we learn from this story is that the perspective of these fine citizens if completely skewed and out of whack. The classmates all get iphone 7s at age 10 while the newcomers may not get a cell phone at all. Oh the injustice and poverty is so apparent! It's hilarious when so many people here spew this "rich is relative" talk. Of course it is, but in the opposite way, not in comparison to those who make more but those who make less.

I buy a used car instead of a new one while all my friends drive audis or bms, that doesn't suddenly make me think I'm not rich. Not sure why so many people have the opposite attitude.

ender

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7402
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2016, 06:34:37 PM »
A woman is widowed and she and her children receive life insurance benefits purchased by her husband.  The life insurance company and everyone else who knows what she received think she is rich.  Set for life. 
Woman moves to be closer to family and chooses a town with some of the best public schools in the country.  By moving into this town, she moves into a very nice home.  The children grow up in this town knowing they are in the "poor section" and they know not to ask for things that aren't needs.  They also know not to expect the same things their classmates get. 

This is a true story.

And what we learn from this story is that the perspective of these fine citizens if completely skewed and out of whack. The classmates all get iphone 7s at age 10 while the newcomers may not get a cell phone at all. Oh the injustice and poverty is so apparent! It's hilarious when so many people here spew this "rich is relative" talk. Of course it is, but in the opposite way, not in comparison to those who make more but those who make less.

I buy a used car instead of a new one while all my friends drive audis or bms, that doesn't suddenly make me think I'm not rich. Not sure why so many people have the opposite attitude.

I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

PseudoStache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2016, 09:11:03 PM »
I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

I think this is where the misunderstandings/sadness/etc. around some of these comments is coming in.

People on here have different opinions on what rich means to them.

As I said in my post, that probably means $6.25MM to ME.  Having the ability to purchase luxury items on a whim is rich to me.  Even though you wouldn't have to work and are FIREd, living a $20K minimalistic lifestyle off of $500K is NOT rich to me.

But that doesn't mean that I am not fricking blessed and fortunate to be where I am in life... Even if I don't feel like I'm rich.

Comparing my wealth or net worth to someone in a third world country or within private school social circles has absolutely nothing to do with what I consider rich.

Do I aspire to be rich, yes.... But I am also realistic and not willing to sacrifice time with my family.  I realize that if I would like to retire in the next 10 years that I will not likely be rich.  When I retire, I will live a happy "middle class" life and be truly satisfied that I have been able to achieve financial independence at an earlier-than-normal age. 

If things go as planned I will be a "middle class" multi-millionaire :)




Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2016, 09:30:08 PM »
I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

I think this is where the misunderstandings/sadness/etc. around some of these comments is coming in.

People on here have different opinions on what rich means to them.

As I said in my post, that probably means $6.25MM to ME.  Having the ability to purchase luxury items on a whim is rich to me.  Even though you wouldn't have to work and are FIREd, living a $20K minimalistic lifestyle off of $500K is NOT rich to me.

But that doesn't mean that I am not fricking blessed and fortunate to be where I am in life... Even if I don't feel like I'm rich.

Comparing my wealth or net worth to someone in a third world country or within private school social circles has absolutely nothing to do with what I consider rich.

Do I aspire to be rich, yes.... But I am also realistic and not willing to sacrifice time with my family.  I realize that if I would like to retire in the next 10 years that I will not likely be rich.  When I retire, I will live a happy "middle class" life and be truly satisfied that I have been able to achieve financial independence at an earlier-than-normal age. 

If things go as planned I will be a "middle class" multi-millionaire :)

I think the point of a lot of those comments is to point out that, if being 'rich' is a matter of opinion, then perhaps the fastest way for one to become rich is to change one's opinion of what rich is. 

If one realizes that having the ability to turn on any faucet they will ever see and have a virtually unlimited supply of drinkable water pour out is a luxury that a majority of the humans on the planet will never experience, perhaps being able to buy a yacht on a whim is not really as important to happiness and richness in life as they had first thought.  Perhaps one would begin to see that a 'middle class' lifestyle is actually closer to 'insanely fuckin' wealthy'. Hardly a difference, really. Perhaps if one was of the opinion that a cold bottle of beer, a mug of coffee as the sun sets, or a serving of piping hot dibi is luxury itself (And soo yummy) suddenly these things bring joy on the same level of the aforementioned yacht.

After all, it's all a matter of opinion.

burrow

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Paradise (NSW South Coast)
  • "He who knows he has enough is rich"
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2016, 05:25:05 AM »
We are all rich when we look at the world around us where half the population lives on $2 a day.

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2016, 07:36:44 AM »
Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but here is a link to a free website to calculate your wealth index.  Basically gives you an idea where you rate compared to others of similar age and income.

http://www.hughcalc.org/wealth.cgi
Evidently saving >50% of my salary makes me an "Average Accumulator of Wealth."  Granted, I'm pretty close to the next threshold, but that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. 

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2016, 09:59:07 AM »
I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

I think this is where the misunderstandings/sadness/etc. around some of these comments is coming in.

People on here have different opinions on what rich means to them.

As I said in my post, that probably means $6.25MM to ME.  Having the ability to purchase luxury items on a whim is rich to me.  Even though you wouldn't have to work and are FIREd, living a $20K minimalistic lifestyle off of $500K is NOT rich to me.

But that doesn't mean that I am not fricking blessed and fortunate to be where I am in life... Even if I don't feel like I'm rich.

Comparing my wealth or net worth to someone in a third world country or within private school social circles has absolutely nothing to do with what I consider rich.

Do I aspire to be rich, yes.... But I am also realistic and not willing to sacrifice time with my family.  I realize that if I would like to retire in the next 10 years that I will not likely be rich.  When I retire, I will live a happy "middle class" life and be truly satisfied that I have been able to achieve financial independence at an earlier-than-normal age. 

If things go as planned I will be a "middle class" multi-millionaire :)

I think the point of a lot of those comments is to point out that, if being 'rich' is a matter of opinion, then perhaps the fastest way for one to become rich is to change one's opinion of what rich is. 

If one realizes that having the ability to turn on any faucet they will ever see and have a virtually unlimited supply of drinkable water pour out is a luxury that a majority of the humans on the planet will never experience, perhaps being able to buy a yacht on a whim is not really as important to happiness and richness in life as they had first thought.  Perhaps one would begin to see that a 'middle class' lifestyle is actually closer to 'insanely fuckin' wealthy'. Hardly a difference, really. Perhaps if one was of the opinion that a cold bottle of beer, a mug of coffee as the sun sets, or a serving of piping hot dibi is luxury itself (And soo yummy) suddenly these things bring joy on the same level of the aforementioned yacht.

After all, it's all a matter of opinion.

Bingo.

Why choose that some other "more" grossly extravagant style of living is truly "rich"? What is wrong with admitting the excess you and I now have? Does it have to do with the term? Does the idea of being rich make people feel bad about themselves?

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2016, 11:58:34 AM »
I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

I think this is where the misunderstandings/sadness/etc. around some of these comments is coming in.

People on here have different opinions on what rich means to them.

As I said in my post, that probably means $6.25MM to ME.  Having the ability to purchase luxury items on a whim is rich to me.  Even though you wouldn't have to work and are FIREd, living a $20K minimalistic lifestyle off of $500K is NOT rich to me.

But that doesn't mean that I am not fricking blessed and fortunate to be where I am in life... Even if I don't feel like I'm rich.

Comparing my wealth or net worth to someone in a third world country or within private school social circles has absolutely nothing to do with what I consider rich.

Do I aspire to be rich, yes.... But I am also realistic and not willing to sacrifice time with my family.  I realize that if I would like to retire in the next 10 years that I will not likely be rich.  When I retire, I will live a happy "middle class" life and be truly satisfied that I have been able to achieve financial independence at an earlier-than-normal age. 

If things go as planned I will be a "middle class" multi-millionaire :)

I think the point of a lot of those comments is to point out that, if being 'rich' is a matter of opinion, then perhaps the fastest way for one to become rich is to change one's opinion of what rich is. 

If one realizes that having the ability to turn on any faucet they will ever see and have a virtually unlimited supply of drinkable water pour out is a luxury that a majority of the humans on the planet will never experience, perhaps being able to buy a yacht on a whim is not really as important to happiness and richness in life as they had first thought.  Perhaps one would begin to see that a 'middle class' lifestyle is actually closer to 'insanely fuckin' wealthy'. Hardly a difference, really. Perhaps if one was of the opinion that a cold bottle of beer, a mug of coffee as the sun sets, or a serving of piping hot dibi is luxury itself (And soo yummy) suddenly these things bring joy on the same level of the aforementioned yacht.

After all, it's all a matter of opinion.

Bingo.

Why choose that some other "more" grossly extravagant style of living is truly "rich"? What is wrong with admitting the excess you and I now have? Does it have to do with the term? Does the idea of being rich make people feel bad about themselves?
Most of us who responded to the OP did it from a First World  mathematical comparison POV rather than a worldwide feeling/emotional POV since that is what he/she asked for. I think most people in developed countries realize the abundance they have compared to many other places but since the OP specificly asked NOT to base our responses on that we didn't. We based it on finances and comparisons of what can be done with higher finances compared to lower finances. I'm a long term FIREee and can easily, happily and comfortably live on well under $1000/month here in the developed world. Am I financially rich compared to others in the developed world? Probably not although my lufe is very full of luxuries of the non financial kind. Am I financially rich and have an exploding volcano of luxuries compared to the undeveloped world? Hell yeah.

Eh I can see how you may think they asked for one particular view or another although I don't personally see it. The point however is why choose to view it in such a way? What is the value in comparing your life against the person with the yachts and dom perignon bubble baths?

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2016, 12:23:15 PM »
I think it's hard to define it.

If Person A has $2,000,000 in investments and use the 4% rule, he can spend $80,000 per year, indefinitely, without lifting a finger. That seems like a pretty sweet deal. He might be rich.

If Person B has a full-time job that earns him $80,000, we would be hard pressed to call him "rich." He works harder and has less security than Person A.

But if Person B is 20 years old, then he's also doing much better than if he's 65 years old.

If Person A is 20 years old, he has to be a lot more careful with his money than if he's 65 years old. But he's got so much more money than the average 20 year old - how can we not call him rich? If he's 65 and his $2,000,000 represents his lifetime retirement savings after a long career, is he richer or less rich than the 20 year old?

Some people have said that they're rich when they have enough investments to stop working. But at what kind of lifestyle? Do you have to have an above-average lifestyle on your investments to be rich, an average, middle-class lifestyle, or a poverty-line lifestyle on your investments to be rich?

tarheeldan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 907
  • Location: Plano, TX
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2016, 01:11:17 PM »
A little late to the party, but I had something to add to the discussion of a global comparison.

Someone had rightly pointed out that we should account for purchasing power disparities when making comparisons across countries. This difference is accounted for in measures that are estimated with purchasing power parity (PPP), such as GDP per capita:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

No Name Guy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Location: Western Washington
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2016, 01:19:11 PM »
Some subset of the following will let you know if you're rich

1)  You're alive
2)  In passably decent health
3)  Have family / friends that care about you / love you.
4)  Have a child / children
5)  Know you won't be on the verge of starvation in the 1-2 week time frame.
  5a)  Malnutrition is caused only by the "diet de jure", not due to any actual shortage of nutritious food.
6)  Know you won't get cholera / amoebic dysentery / any other water borne communicable disease from the stuff that comes from the tap.  It's also free of harmful chemical / mineral pollutants.
7)  Sewage is treated so that (6) remains true (note - if you live in Victoria BC, you aren't rich since you fail this one miserably.  Stop flushing your untreated shit into the Straight of Juan De Fuca).
8)  You have a roof over your head and walls with enough insulation that freezing to death while at home has never entered your consciousness as a possibility. 
  8a) You have a home / apartment / place to dwell.
9)  You have adequate clothing on your back.  Bonus - you have more than one set of clothing.
10)  If you get an infection, you will be able to obtain a suitable antibiotic, even if it sets you back $500 out of pocket (note:  This wasn't available to John Pierpont Morgan or John Rockefeller for all their wealth back in their day, so yes, the poorest amongst us are in fact far, far wealthier today in that respect than the wealthiest of 75+ years ago).
11)  When you go to sleep at night, you don't do so in mortal fear that bandits will murder you in your sleep.  Ditto walking around in the day time doing ordinary things.
12)  You don't have to worry about being on the receiving end of genocidal mobs of thugs
13)  You've flown on an airplane.....anywhere, for any reason.
14)  Able to do Readin', writin' and addin'.
15)  You've been vaccinated against preventable diseases.
16)  Know that work / production precedes leisure / consumption.





Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2016, 01:30:42 PM »
Some subset of the following will let you know if you're rich

1)  You're alive
2)  In passably decent health
3)  Have family / friends that care about you / love you.
4)  Have a child / children
5)  Know you won't be on the verge of starvation in the 1-2 week time frame.
  5a)  Malnutrition is caused only by the "diet de jure", not due to any actual shortage of nutritious food.
6)  Know you won't get cholera / amoebic dysentery / any other water borne communicable disease from the stuff that comes from the tap.  It's also free of harmful chemical / mineral pollutants.
7)  Sewage is treated so that (6) remains true (note - if you live in Victoria BC, you aren't rich since you fail this one miserably.  Stop flushing your untreated shit into the Straight of Juan De Fuca).
8)  You have a roof over your head and walls with enough insulation that freezing to death while at home has never entered your consciousness as a possibility. 
  8a) You have a home / apartment / place to dwell.
9)  You have adequate clothing on your back.  Bonus - you have more than one set of clothing.
10)  If you get an infection, you will be able to obtain a suitable antibiotic, even if it sets you back $500 out of pocket (note:  This wasn't available to John Pierpont Morgan or John Rockefeller for all their wealth back in their day, so yes, the poorest amongst us are in fact far, far wealthier today in that respect than the wealthiest of 75+ years ago).
11)  When you go to sleep at night, you don't do so in mortal fear that bandits will murder you in your sleep.  Ditto walking around in the day time doing ordinary things.
12)  You don't have to worry about being on the receiving end of genocidal mobs of thugs
13)  You've flown on an airplane.....anywhere, for any reason.
14)  Able to do Readin', writin' and addin'.
15)  You've been vaccinated against preventable diseases.
16)  Know that work / production precedes leisure / consumption.

This tells you you live in a First World country, not what your relative wealth is within that country. Anyone who fails any of #5 onward in the USA or Canada (and there are some that do), is likely living in extreme poverty within that country. They aren't just "not rich."

Inevitable

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2016, 01:49:49 PM »
This debate has no end, because "rich" can't be quantified.  The term rich has nothing to do with money for me.

"Who, being loved, is poor?" - Oscar Wilde

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2016, 05:17:47 PM »
I have a hard time understanding this too. People on this forum (especially those nearing or at FI!) have a lifestyle and future ahead of them that has been overwhelmingly isolated into the richest of the rich over the course of human history.

I really am surprised how so few people feel rich. Maybe I just feel more lucky or blessed to be in the position I am in.

I think this is where the misunderstandings/sadness/etc. around some of these comments is coming in.

People on here have different opinions on what rich means to them.

As I said in my post, that probably means $6.25MM to ME.  Having the ability to purchase luxury items on a whim is rich to me.  Even though you wouldn't have to work and are FIREd, living a $20K minimalistic lifestyle off of $500K is NOT rich to me.

But that doesn't mean that I am not fricking blessed and fortunate to be where I am in life... Even if I don't feel like I'm rich.

Comparing my wealth or net worth to someone in a third world country or within private school social circles has absolutely nothing to do with what I consider rich.

Do I aspire to be rich, yes.... But I am also realistic and not willing to sacrifice time with my family.  I realize that if I would like to retire in the next 10 years that I will not likely be rich.  When I retire, I will live a happy "middle class" life and be truly satisfied that I have been able to achieve financial independence at an earlier-than-normal age. 

If things go as planned I will be a "middle class" multi-millionaire :)

I think the point of a lot of those comments is to point out that, if being 'rich' is a matter of opinion, then perhaps the fastest way for one to become rich is to change one's opinion of what rich is. 

If one realizes that having the ability to turn on any faucet they will ever see and have a virtually unlimited supply of drinkable water pour out is a luxury that a majority of the humans on the planet will never experience, perhaps being able to buy a yacht on a whim is not really as important to happiness and richness in life as they had first thought.  Perhaps one would begin to see that a 'middle class' lifestyle is actually closer to 'insanely fuckin' wealthy'. Hardly a difference, really. Perhaps if one was of the opinion that a cold bottle of beer, a mug of coffee as the sun sets, or a serving of piping hot dibi is luxury itself (And soo yummy) suddenly these things bring joy on the same level of the aforementioned yacht.

After all, it's all a matter of opinion.

Bingo.

Why choose that some other "more" grossly extravagant style of living is truly "rich"? What is wrong with admitting the excess you and I now have? Does it have to do with the term? Does the idea of being rich make people feel bad about themselves?
Most of us who responded to the OP did it from a First World  mathematical comparison POV rather than a worldwide feeling/emotional POV since that is what he/she asked for. I think most people in developed countries realize the abundance they have compared to many other places but since the OP specificly asked NOT to base our responses on that we didn't. We based it on finances and comparisons of what can be done with higher finances compared to lower finances. I'm a long term FIREee and can easily, happily and comfortably live on well under $1000/month here in the developed world. Am I financially rich compared to others in the developed world? Probably not although my lufe is very full of luxuries of the non financial kind. Am I financially rich and have an exploding volcano of luxuries compared to the undeveloped world? Hell yeah.

Eh I can see how you may think they asked for one particular view or another although I don't personally see it. The point however is why choose to view it in such a way? What is the value in comparing your life against the person with the yachts and dom perignon bubble baths?
I guess I didn't see that the OP was trying to compare his life to anyone else, just asking a question about what dollar amount we would consider to be financially rich. Since that will be different from person to person, and there being no math formula to determine the amount, we could only answer our opinion. I chose to answer based on first world lifestyles rather than worldwide.

Sure but that's the crux of the question. Why? I'm legitimately curious about it.

Radagast

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2560
  • One Does Not Simply Work Into Mordor
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2016, 10:07:34 PM »
My wife grew up very poor. As in, can't put together $0.10 to buy salt poor. New clothes less than once per year, heat is a luxury that comes from burning old corn stalks poor.

Now we live in a warm insulated house with all the food and clothes we could ever want and frivolous electronics. We recently exceeded six figures in investments. Yet DW is absolutely clear that we are most definitely not rich.

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16051
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2016, 10:46:26 PM »
I think of "rich" in relation to FIRE. FIRE is having enough to live for the rest of your life - 25 x living expenses. Anything over this is "rich" - let us say that 50 x living expenses is "rich" - because it allows you to buy (or experience) anything you fancy without any impact on your FIRE.

obstinate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1151
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2016, 11:09:45 PM »
One important observation is that there may not be any amount of money at which you feel rich. You can have top one percent net worth and top one percent income and still not feel rich. Donald J Trump regularly claims to feel like a blue collar worker, and for all we know this could be the truth (that he feels this way).

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16051
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2016, 11:35:06 PM »
I think of "rich" in relation to FIRE. FIRE is having enough to live for the rest of your life - 25 x living expenses. Anything over this is "rich" - let us say that 50 x living expenses is "rich" - because it allows you to buy (or experience) anything you fancy without any impact on your FIRE.
But it really wouldn't allow you to buy "anything" you fancy without impacting your FIRE. You'd still have to use financial restraint for most things - especially if you are FIRE on a very low amount of $$s. If Jacob at ERE retired on $6000/year he's still going to be limited on what he can buy or do even with another $6000. That doesn't mean his life is without riches and abundance just that he still has spending/money limits.
Well - riches beyond your current dreams.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7062
  • Location: BC
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2016, 12:39:29 AM »
The word "Rich" is hard to define, there is no absolute...   Which makes me think about how do I determine if the milk or cream in my fridge is rich.... maybe I can find a metaphor there....?

Do I look at the label on the carton that says 18% BF?  36%  1% ?
       ... ok, sometimes I seek external justification from an "authority", like the printed information from the milk board... but more often, I stick a spoon in, and if it comes up with cream clinging to it, I know that it is rich.

BINGO!

You are rich if you have hanger-ons clinging to you for support.



This definition will work across many cultures, countries and socio-economic boundaries.

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2016, 04:47:34 AM »
So parents = rich. :)

PseudoStache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2016, 07:31:38 AM »
One important observation is that there may not be any amount of money at which you feel rich. You can have top one percent net worth and top one percent income and still not feel rich. Donald J Trump regularly claims to feel like a blue collar worker, and for all we know this could be the truth (that he feels this way).

I don't think so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTmUhcRX3I

oatsmagoats

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2016, 10:10:18 AM »
I don't know if this was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I appreciated the approximation that is used at the beginning of The Millionaire Next Door that defines a Prodigious Accumulator of Wealth (PAW) vs. an Under Accumulator of Wealth (UAW). The PAW generally has more than 2x the projected value using the equation below.  The UAW generally has less than projected - I can't remember if the book said half the projected or not.

Projected NW = Age * Realized Pre-tax Income * 10%

tonysemail

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
  • Location: San Jose, CA
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2016, 12:50:37 PM »
my personal definition of rich revolves around giving away money.
At some level of wealth or by a certain age, you reach a point where you've accumulated more money than you care to spend.
You've hit an interesting break point where a switch in mentality occurs.
You no longer concern yourself with longevity or how to support yourself and dependents.
You decide to spend your energy on legacy, whether that's family inheritance, charity work, etc.

No Name Guy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Location: Western Washington
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2016, 01:29:57 PM »
Some subset of the following will let you know if you're rich

1)  You're alive
2)  In passably decent health
3)  Have family / friends that care about you / love you.
4)  Have a child / children
5)  Know you won't be on the verge of starvation in the 1-2 week time frame.
  5a)  Malnutrition is caused only by the "diet de jure", not due to any actual shortage of nutritious food.
6)  Know you won't get cholera / amoebic dysentery / any other water borne communicable disease from the stuff that comes from the tap.  It's also free of harmful chemical / mineral pollutants.
7)  Sewage is treated so that (6) remains true (note - if you live in Victoria BC, you aren't rich since you fail this one miserably.  Stop flushing your untreated shit into the Straight of Juan De Fuca).
8)  You have a roof over your head and walls with enough insulation that freezing to death while at home has never entered your consciousness as a possibility. 
  8a) You have a home / apartment / place to dwell.
9)  You have adequate clothing on your back.  Bonus - you have more than one set of clothing.
10)  If you get an infection, you will be able to obtain a suitable antibiotic, even if it sets you back $500 out of pocket (note:  This wasn't available to John Pierpont Morgan or John Rockefeller for all their wealth back in their day, so yes, the poorest amongst us are in fact far, far wealthier today in that respect than the wealthiest of 75+ years ago).
11)  When you go to sleep at night, you don't do so in mortal fear that bandits will murder you in your sleep.  Ditto walking around in the day time doing ordinary things.
12)  You don't have to worry about being on the receiving end of genocidal mobs of thugs
13)  You've flown on an airplane.....anywhere, for any reason.
14)  Able to do Readin', writin' and addin'.
15)  You've been vaccinated against preventable diseases.
16)  Know that work / production precedes leisure / consumption.

This tells you you live in a First World country, not what your relative wealth is within that country. Anyone who fails any of #5 onward in the USA or Canada (and there are some that do), is likely living in extreme poverty within that country. They aren't just "not rich."

Relative wealth in the current time is meaningless. 

It doesn't hurt me that Warren Buffet or Bill Gates flies in a G650, or for that matter, a full size A320 / 737 / A380 / 747 private jet.  I can get to London from Seattle is 9 hours in economy class - I'm rich by the simple fact that I can fly anywhere around the globe in a timescale measured in hours, even if I'm in "extreme poverty" compared to Buffet or Gates.  It doesn't hurt me that Buffet or Gates has a private physician.  I can get all the antibiotics I need for an infected cut from the Wallgreens down the street after going to a walk in "urgent care" clinic for the 'scrip.  They have drivers and 100-200k cars....I have a Corolla....oh the horror of my extreme poverty.  Gates owns a software company.....I can go to the library and have the entire internet at my fingertips for free.

See, that's the trouble of your idea about "extreme poverty" - you're basing it on a relative scale.  By that methodology, there will never be an end to "extreme poverty" no matter how well off the poorest actually are.

Relative comparisons - just another form of envy.




Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7062
  • Location: BC
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2016, 04:55:46 PM »
So parents = rich. :)

I prefer to think of my kids as lifestyle expenses. They don't have a choice about clinging to my money spoon.

But if you give handouts to other relatives, including adult kids, pay for friends, or are the primary source for your church's donations, then by this measure, you are rich.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7062
  • Location: BC
Re: How to know if you're rich
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2016, 12:31:38 PM »

So for me, rich is having sufficient wealth that you can freely share it with others and gain the benefits of great happiness through giving.  Having enough wealth that you have both the free time and capital to give freely makes you rich....

See?  PizzaSteve agrees with me.   Being rich = having cling-ons....


:-)

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!