How to financially support parents and siblings and be FI

[GeekyGirl]

Hello Awesome Mustachians,

I have been following MMM and other FI blogers (Root of Good, Dough Roller...) and I have been greatly inspired to start saving for the first time in my life. I am posting to share my story, offer some insight and get feedback  on issues that I feel are missing from this forum and other FI venues probably because culturally you do not have those ‘issues’. 

I am saving around 50% of my salary since I started following MMM in January, but I feel very bad about it.I am from West Africa and the norm in my country is to take care of your children when you’re young so that they take care of you when you’re old.  My dad did that very well, I have many siblings and he was a government employee, he and my mum. I went to private school for kindergarten and elementary school and then to public school.

My dad invested all his money and energy on giving us the best education and upbringing. We were not poor but budget was tight but he still managed to put us all through private school so that we could have the foundation. He also thought us at home, we would learn how to read and write before elementary school and every evening we would do our homework, do some Mathematics exercises and some reading.  During Middle school, he and my mum (mostly my mum because he was paying tuition fees) would pay for tutoring classes when we had state exams. I had a Maths, a physics/Chemistry and a French (we are French-speaking) teacher during middle and high school. During the summer he would pay English classes for us and then Computer classes when we were in High school. Which explains why I am fluent in English and a computer scientist (early exposure, thanks dad). 

He was really invested in our education and we ended up all going to college. I am the second one, I have a bachelor and a Masters in Computer science, my older sister has a bachelor of Biology, a Masters of Environmental sciences and she just started her PhD on Biodiversity; she’s an associate professor. One of my younger sister has a Master of Statistics and she’s a data scientist, the other one is completing her Masters this year. One of my younger brother has a bachelor in Sociology (the most ‘difficult’ kid of the family) and the youngest is in the first year of his bachelor in Computer Science now. This is all thanks to my parents’ sacrifice and dedication to our education.

They taught us to be self-reliant. I did my bachelor in Morocco thanks to a merit scholarship, my dad would send me money for living expenses but all the rest was paid for.  Later on, I came to the US on a full scholarship to get a Master in Information Systems Management and I am working as a data scientist in France now. My younger sister did her undergrad and grad studies in France, financing her studies by doing summer jobs and baby-sitting. So after high school we were almost independent.

Now onto the problem. As I said my parents took care of us and now we have to take care of them and our younger siblings as my dad retired this year and my will next year. Before coming to the US in 2012 to do my Masters, I was working home and I had a very good salary, but I was helping my dad finish his house and I was paying tuition fees for my two younger siblings. I was also trying hard to get my brother the sociologist to do something practical of his life. I did love doing that but I was getting nowhere personally and it is why I worked  hard and passed the TOEFL and the GRE and got myself a Fulbright scholarship to study in one of the best schools in the US.

Now after a break (lovely baby boy), I am back to the workforce; but during grad school and maternity leave, I wished I had some savings from my six years of work. I don’t want to do the same ever again. I want to save for an emergency fund, for baby education and for my retirement which explains the 50% saving rate.
However …. My dad retired and my mum will soon. Their pension is meaningless and my sister and I are sending them money monthly. It is enough for living expenses but they might need more. They’re both often sick and we want to send them to France for treatment, my mum have bad knees and she might need a surgical operation.  I want to buy a car for my older sister who is doing her PhD and not making much money as a scientist, she’s also been taking such good care of our parents while the rest of us is abroad.  I also want to send my younger brother to France or Canada to complete his bachelor. To sum up, that could take all my savings and I don’t know where the balance is. Security is my number one goal but I do love my dad and if I could, I would offer him the world.

What I am doing now is saving as much as I can. I have to go home on September and I want to figure out what I will do before then. Invest some money and use some for my parents and let my brother take care of his education as his older sisters did Or do it this one time and then start saving in one or two years. Buy the car for my sister or fund my retirement account and bay education fund?

Any idea or inspiration how to solve these issues. Does anyone has the same concern? How to continue taking care of my sibling and parents while pursuing financial independence? Mostly how to get rid of the gilt I feel saving money while my sister needs a car, my younger brother a better education and my parents, better healthcare?

Thanks for reading,
GeekyGirl

[Secretly Saving]

Wow.  I can tell by your post that you're really feeling torn in so many directions.

One thing that I thought about while reading your post is how to prioritize your need/want to give to your family members.  My gut reaction was to save for yourself first and then help your parents second.  Those two would be my priorities. 

In terms of siblings, I would try to remember that you helping out your parents IS actually a gift to your siblings because it takes pressure off them. 

Best of luck!

[J Boogie]

Thanks for posting, you offer a great perspective here.  I think many on this forum and established people in developed nations would recommend against ongoing financial help for family (especially those who are able to take care of themselves).

However, you were raised in a different culture and different set of values.  Your parents went "all in" on your education so to speak to give you opportunities.  It's natural that you feel immense gratitude.  Good for you.

The only recommendation I have would be to follow your instinct to regard security as your number one goal.

Otherwise, it's great when family closeness can actually be advantageous, as community living offers many benefits from an economic and well being perspective.   I live in a duplex with my Nicaraguan in-laws up top.  There was a point where we helped them out with rent before they moved into their unit, but now they have found work and consistently pay rent on time and are incredibly generous with their time cooking for us, helping us with our baby, etc.  It looked like a financial burden at first, but ended up being the opposite.  If you get creative and work together it can be possible for family closeness to make everyone's lives better in many different ways.  Sounds like that might not be possible in your situation - it seemed impossible in ours as well, but my in laws became very open to moving the more economic pressure hit them and the more they thought about the future being far from their kids and grandkids.

[RetiredAt63]

You have already been helping with the younger siblings.  Given the family financial history, I feel that you and your siblings all do have a duty to help your parents financially.  It's not as if they have been wasting their money.  Since you have already been doing this (helping with siblings counts) the others will need to contribute more as they are able.  You do have other obligations - what is the family take on helping parents when there are grandchildren?  What did your parents do for their parents while they were putting all of you through school?  A big family discussion seems appropriate here, so everyone knows who is doing what and expectations are clear.

Historically this also happened here - my father and uncle were brought up by their maiden aunt after their parents died.  My Dad sent her money all his working life until she died, although there were times that money was very tight.  So did my uncle's widow, even though theoretically she had no obligation.

[Sibley]

Ok, here's my thoughts.

1. Your brother the sociologist has made his decisions. Now he gets to deal with the consequences, good, bad, or indifferent. Don't pay his bills! Don't send him overseas and pay for schooling. If he wants to do it, he gets to figure out how to pay for it. He'll either get his act together and do it, or not. That's not your fault, and you can still love him regardless.

2. Your sister the scientist is presumably doing just fine without a car. What's more, she's an adult. If she wants a car, she gets to decide that, then pick one, then buy it, then pay for gas, repairs, insurance, and so on. Do not buy her a car. In fact, depending on where she lives, having a car may actually be a problem! You appreciate that she's been helping to care for your parents? Great - tell her that! Then do practical things to help your parents that will give your sister a break. Get creative.

3. Your parents. Ok, they're aging. They have some health problems. That does tend to happen as you age. Tough, but true. Right now, they're living ok. Don't borrow trouble. And for future problems, throwing money at it shouldn't be your default, because so often it doesn't help.

4. Part of the reason you are who you are is that you had to work hard for an education and to get where you are. Do you really want to deprive your child of that? I bet you learned valuable skills by taking care of yourself. Do not hinder your child because you want to take care of them. Yeah, make sure he/she has a good education, but also take advantage of free or low cost options. Encourage independence and problem solving. Give your child the tools to succeed, like your parents gave you, then step back and let them succeed or fail on own efforts. Isn't that what your parents did for you?

I understand that you're feeling pressure to take care of your parents at the expense of yourself. However, if you do that then you are also setting your child(ren) up to have to take care of you when you're older. I can tell you that in the United States, that's not working out too well. Don't just think about today, also think about 50 years from now.

[onlykelsey]

It seems like your priority should first be building up a cushion in your savings so that you can help yourself or your family when you need it.  Emptying your savings may feel generous, but you're less likely to be able to help 6 months later if something comes up.

I think you're right to be supporting your parents, but I'm inclined to let your brother fend for himself a bit more and focus on helping the hardworking siblings and parents.  If the rest of you were able to get through college, why wouldn't he be able to?  Has the cost changed a lot? Or is he just not as focused?

[aceyou]

Things I'd consider: I think it's reasonable for you and your siblings to help out your parents financially, given all the help they've given all of you.  Note that I don't think you OWE this to them, but I definitely think it's reasonable. 

Things that I think are over the top  You absolutely are not in position to help your siblings too, nor do you have ANY obligation to do so.  This is the exact mentality that got your parents into the situation that they are currently in.  It's admirable that your children have helped your parents a lot, but let's face it, so have you.  You don't owe anything to your siblings.  You need to stop the bleeding

Finally, don't feel like you are being selfish for doing this.  By taking care of yourself first, you are ensuring that this is the LAST generation that will have to live in this cycle.  Your family will not have to take care of you financially some day...what a generous gift to give them.  Save, save, save, and good luck!!!

[GeekyGirl]

In terms of siblings, I would try to remember that you helping out your parents IS actually a gift to your siblings because it takes pressure off them. 

Best of luck!

Thank you Secretly Saving!! That IS so true and I tend to forget it.

You have already been helping with the younger siblings.  Given the family financial history, I feel that you and your siblings all do have a duty to help your parents financially.  It's not as if they have been wasting their money.  Since you have already been doing this (helping with siblings counts) the others will need to contribute more as they are able.  You do have other obligations - what is the family take on helping parents when there are grandchildren?  What did your parents do for their parents while they were putting all of you through school?  A big family discussion seems appropriate here, so everyone knows who is doing what and expectations are clear.

Historically this also happened here - my father and uncle were brought up by their maiden aunt after their parents died.  My Dad sent her money all his working life until she died, although there were times that money was very tight.  So did my uncle's widow, even though theoretically she had no obligation.

Thanks RetiredAt63. My sister who is working is helping as well but I have always done more. Maybe we should balance things out.

Thanks for posting, you offer a great perspective here.  I think many on this forum and established people in developed nations would recommend against ongoing financial help for family (especially those who are able to take care of themselves).

However, you were raised in a different culture and different set of values.  Your parents went "all in" on your education so to speak to give you opportunities.  It's natural that you feel immense gratitude.  Good for you.

The only recommendation I have would be to follow your instinct to regard security as your number one goal.

Otherwise, it's great when family closeness can actually be advantageous, as community living offers many benefits from an economic and well being perspective.   I live in a duplex with my Nicaraguan in-laws up top.  There was a point where we helped them out with rent before they moved into their unit, but now they have found work and consistently pay rent on time and are incredibly generous with their time cooking for us, helping us with our baby, etc.  It looked like a financial burden at first, but ended up being the opposite.  If you get creative and work together it can be possible for family closeness to make everyone's lives better in many different ways.  Sounds like that might not be possible in your situation - it seemed impossible in ours as well, but my in laws became very open to moving the more economic pressure hit them and the more they thought about the future being far from their kids and grandkids.

Thank you for teh great insightful answer. Yeah, my parents coming to live with us is not an option. They have a good life out there: a great house, a great community and they wouldn't fit in here.
I believe that helping out is normally the best way to empower people so that they can be independent and help others me included :) Not always but that what I am hoping for my siblings.

Ok, here's my thoughts.

1. Your brother the sociologist has made his decisions. Now he gets to deal with the consequences, good, bad, or indifferent. Don't pay his bills! Don't send him overseas and pay for schooling. If he wants to do it, he gets to figure out how to pay for it. He'll either get his act together and do it, or not. That's not your fault, and you can still love him regardless.

2. Your sister the scientist is presumably doing just fine without a car. What's more, she's an adult. If she wants a car, she gets to decide that, then pick one, then buy it, then pay for gas, repairs, insurance, and so on. Do not buy her a car. In fact, depending on where she lives, having a car may actually be a problem! You appreciate that she's been helping to care for your parents? Great - tell her that! Then do practical things to help your parents that will give your sister a break. Get creative.

3. Your parents. Ok, they're aging. They have some health problems. That does tend to happen as you age. Tough, but true. Right now, they're living ok. Don't borrow trouble. And for future problems, throwing money at it shouldn't be your default, because so often it doesn't help.

4. Part of the reason you are who you are is that you had to work hard for an education and to get where you are. Do you really want to deprive your child of that? I bet you learned valuable skills by taking care of yourself. Do not hinder your child because you want to take care of them. Yeah, make sure he/she has a good education, but also take advantage of free or low cost options. Encourage independence and problem solving. Give your child the tools to succeed, like your parents gave you, then step back and let them succeed or fail on own efforts. Isn't that what your parents did for you?

I understand that you're feeling pressure to take care of your parents at the expense of yourself. However, if you do that then you are also setting your child(ren) up to have to take care of you when you're older. I can tell you that in the United States, that's not working out too well. Don't just think about today, also think about 50 years from now.

Thank you Sibley. Great and to the point answers. I like number 1 and I have been doing that for a while now. It is my other brother that I am considering helping ( I know we're a lot). part of the reason, MM ideas resonated with me is that I know that my kids won't take care of me. And my parents never really pressure me on doing anything for them, in fact my dad tend to tell me that the siblings are his family not mine. I should listen him more :)

It seems like your priority should first be building up a cushion in your savings so that you can help yourself or your family when you need it.  Emptying your savings may feel generous, but you're less likely to be able to help 6 months later if something comes up.

I think you're right to be supporting your parents, but I'm inclined to let your brother fend for himself a bit more and focus on helping the hardworking siblings and parents.  If the rest of you were able to get through college, why wouldn't he be able to?  Has the cost changed a lot? Or is he just not as focused?

.

He's just less focused I guess and less ambitious. I want great things for him but he just enjoy life and I feel like he would get more perspective by going abroad and seeing what boys his age have accomplished.

[CowboyAndIndian]

I have a slightly different viewpoint from the others.

First of all, you are in a unique situation. Your generation, growing up in your country and working in another country will help out your parents in their old age. You have no guarantee that your  kids who will grow up in the new country will follow this tradition of helping in your retirement. For your planning, you have to assume that your kids will not help you in your old age.

So, you have to save for your own retirement and also to pay for your parents retirement.

These are my suggestions

• Save aggressively for your retirement
• Help your parents in their retirement. Make sure your siblings know that it not just your responsibility, but they need to pay a fair share
• Cut down on support to siblings. No car for sister and no money for the brother. They need to help themselves. You can help them, but only in the case of emergency.

[CNM]

Could you do something like make a monthly allowance for the family?  Meaning, you tell your parents that you will chip in $X per month or per quarter.  Then, your parents can determine how that money is spent among the family.  Maybe it is to buy a car for your sister or maybe it is to send your brother abroad.  The purpose of this is to have all of the expectations set out clearly and to remove yourself from determining which cause is worthier than the other.  Deciding who gets what seems to cause you the most stress from this situation.

The $X will be something that you can afford and something that you feel good about giving, while also allowing you to reach your savings goals, too.  Treat it like any other bill or expense.

Good luck!

[LouLou]

I do not have the same cultural influences - I am African American instead of West African.  However, within my family, there is same general expectation that the younger generation helps the older. The general pattern is multi-generation households, or paying bills.  So I understand where you are coming from.

Could you do something like make a monthly allowance for the family?  Meaning, you tell your parents that you will chip in $X per month or per quarter.  Then, your parents can determine how that money is spent among the family.  Maybe it is to buy a car for your sister or maybe it is to send your brother abroad.  The purpose of this is to have all of the expectations set out clearly and to remove yourself from determining which cause is worthier than the other.  Deciding who gets what seems to cause you the most stress from this situation.

The $X will be something that you can afford and something that you feel good about giving, while also allowing you to reach your savings goals, too.  Treat it like any other bill or expense.

Good luck!

I think this is the best approach in your situation, as you live in different countries.  Figure out a set amount, let everyone know exactly what that amount is and that you cannot go over it, and then do not go over it.  When you determine that amount, consider the following factors:

• how much you need for your expected expenses, unexpected expenses, and savings for the future (without assuming that your child will take care of you the way you take care of your parents);
• your parent's medical needs;
• your parent's basic living needs (shelter, food, water) without their wants;
• travel expenses as you live in different countries;
• burial and other end-of-life costs for your parents; and
• an extra amount for their wants.

Keep in mind that saving for yourself is very important.  If something very serious happens in the future, the version of you that saved will be able to help in ways that the version who sent all his money to his family could not.  Focus on needs, not wants.  My mother would like a small house to herself - she is actually moving into a suite in my house.  All of the money I would have spent on a mortgage or rent will be invested, and I will be in a much better position to help her in the event of a major medical issue.

You also have a little one to support! I have one on the way.  One of my goals is that my children will not have the burden of financially supporting me when I am older. I need to save and invest to make that happen.

Questions:
Why do you want to buy your sister a car?  Gifting someone a car is not always nice, since you are also gifting a fuel expense, insurance expense, maintenance expenses (and time to deal with it), etc. 

Why do you want to incur expenses sending your brother abroad for college?  You would both be better off if you helped him apply for scholarship opportunities.  I have also heard that Germany offers free college, even to non-Germans.  I read an article about American students taking advantage of that. I have also read about American universities with free tuition if the student works (they are not that prestigious, but a good opportunity).

[Cassie]

I agree with others that say have all the siblings that can afford to pay an equal amount so it just doesn't fall to you as your parents have helped all of you.  YOu will need to balance their needs with your own so yu are not a burden on your own kids.  This is a difficult situation but it sounds like they sacrificed a lot for you guys.  Hopefully the lower cost of living there will make it feasible for all of this to work out.  Hugs:))

[SachaFiscal]

I can empathize with what you are going through.  Taking care of family is how you were raised.  I do think you can find a balance between taking care of family and insuring financial security.  You are lucky to have siblings who can share the effort of taking care of your parents as they age.  Just keep the relationships with them good and balanced and get them used to the idea of you all sharing equally. 

One thing to remember is that you want to save more early on so that it has time to grow.  So the money you save/invest now is so much more important than the money you may save in the future.  So I would consider only providing for things that your siblings/parents absolutely need now rather than their wants.  Once you have reached your FI number (including what you need to provide your own children), you can help out with more of the wants.

By making yourself financially secure, you do a great service to your family because you can be a safety net if they really need it.  If they are really down on their luck they can come live with you and you can provide food/shelter, etc.

 

[jim555]

You are not going to like the answer...  Dump them like a hot rock. 

[GeekyGirl]

I do not have the same cultural influences - I am African American instead of West African.  However, within my family, there is same general expectation that the younger generation helps the older. The general pattern is multi-generation households, or paying bills.  So I understand where you are coming from.

Could you do something like make a monthly allowance for the family?  Meaning, you tell your parents that you will chip in $X per month or per quarter.  Then, your parents can determine how that money is spent among the family.  Maybe it is to buy a car for your sister or maybe it is to send your brother abroad.  The purpose of this is to have all of the expectations set out clearly and to remove yourself from determining which cause is worthier than the other.  Deciding who gets what seems to cause you the most stress from this situation.

The $X will be something that you can afford and something that you feel good about giving, while also allowing you to reach your savings goals, too.  Treat it like any other bill or expense.

Good luck!

Questions:
Why do you want to buy your sister a car?  Gifting someone a car is not always nice, since you are also gifting a fuel expense, insurance expense, maintenance expenses (and time to deal with it), etc. 

Why do you want to incur expenses sending your brother abroad for college?  You would both be better off if you helped him apply for scholarship opportunities.  I have also heard that Germany offers free college, even to non-Germans.  I read an article about American students taking advantage of that. I have also read about American universities with free tuition if the student works (they are not that prestigious, but a good opportunity).

Thank you Loulou, I think that CNM approach is the best and I am working on the numbers and making a plan with my little sister who is working as a data scientist so that we can send the same amount monthly. It will allow each of us to save more one month and then send the 'parents' money' the other one.

For teh questions:
-My sister already have a car, in fact it is my old car I left to her when I came to the US. She can take care of fuel, insurance and other fees. It is just that this one is so old that it requires monthly maintenance. She needs a new car because public transportation is almost inexistant and every one who is working far needs personal car. The old car is draining her financially and she cannot afford a new one. I was thinking of sending her one to help her: il will require less maintenance, so she can do some savings. She would also pay for customs fees and transportation by selling her actual car, I will just have to buy the car. But based on responses I received here and the fact that I do not want to drain my savings, I will help her establish a plan to save for the car. It will be more empowering for her I think.

-Unfortunately my younger brother doesn't have good marks to qualify for scholarships as my sisters and I did. The idea is to send him to France because tuition fees are low and once he has a part time job he can support himself. We will just have to pay for airfare, tution fees for first year (around 500 EUR) and rent and living expenses for 6 months ( and he can stay with me or my other sister living in France).

[MonkeyJenga]

It doesn't sound like your brother is unhappy and asking you for French schooling. What's wrong with enjoying life? You can't impose ambition on someone.

Is the primary goal for him to get a better job so he can send money to your parents? So you don't need to send money to him? Or for him to fit some idealized worker bee image?

[GeekyGirl]

It doesn't sound like your brother is unhappy and asking you for French schooling. What's wrong with enjoying life? You can't impose ambition on someone.

Is the primary goal for him to get a better job so he can send money to your parents? So you don't need to send money to him? Or for him to fit some idealized worker bee image?

When I say he enjoy life, I mean he just wait for us to take care of our parents and of him whithout going out of his way to improve his life and others'. The idea is for him to fend for himself and be independent. As long as I don't have to send him money I am happy :) . Sending him abroad is because he's my baby brother and I want the best for him, I know that going abroad helped me got a larger perspective and be independent, I am hoping the same for him, I might be wrong.

[GeekyGirl]

Hello all,

This is my first posting in the MMM forum after six months of reading it and I am impressed by the community readiness to help each other. Thank you for the great responses, the advice, insight and ideas you shared.

I feel more focused going forward and as must have advised here, I have disussed with my other sibling in position to help and we have assigned a set amount that we will send to the family. We kept it minimal just for living expenses and we are puting apart a small amount monthly for unforseen event such as our parents needing urgent healthcare. As mention above, I will help my sister save for her car and for my brother we’ll let him finish undergrad at home and if we can afford it or if he has good marks then we’ll see for grad school.

So I will save more for me, especially for retirement and I do want to give that great gift to the next generation so that we don’t continue this circle of dependence ; thanks aceyou for this emouving call !!! I also intend on helping my son for his studies but he will have to do the bulk of it on his own. I will not hinder him and I’ll let him grow and be independent.

Thank you all for making me wiser and enabling me to go to the next step : asset allocation, investment options, retirement accounts, etc.

Best,
GeekyGirl