How often do you communicate goals with partner?

[vespito]

Quick version: How often do you communicate with your partner about finances and how they relate to your goals? Have they helped?

Backstory: My partner and I had lots of discussions about our thoughts and attitudes towards money prior to getting married (we were on the same page). Fast forward 7 years – now when I talk to my DW about our finances, I have about 15 – 30 minutes before she shuts down.  Fact is, she hates thinking about this stuff.  She does budget and talks about needing to save more, but she really only saves the $5500 max in her IRA (she does not, however, spend above her means).  I have taken on the job of securing our financial future and planning for retirement (I’m close to hitting the 50% savings mark but don't earn a huge salary).

She has decided she wants more adventure in our lives (we don’t have kids).  That may involve moving, or just traveling more, or who knows...  I told her I’m game for anything but have been working too hard on savings just to say “screw it, let’s quit our jobs and move and new jobs/finances will figure themselves out”.  We both enjoy other activities and have a decent social life, but she is still not fulfilled (our relationship is good – we’re pretty open about everything). 

I do agree that we have a certain amount of freedom to do things and that work needs to stop being the center of our lives (we don't have a horrible work week, but stress and just thinking about it takes up more time than we both were willing to admit).

I'm just trying to figure out how to approach all this while maintaining (or even increasing) our savings rate, especially when she shuts down while talking finances.  Right now I am on pace to retire, or have both of us work minimally, in about 10 years - I'll be 52 and my partner is 6 years younger than me.  If I retired completely, she would probably need to work until about the same age - 52.  That's still retiring early, if not much.

So, anyone else have / having the same issues with their partner? 

[Frankies Girl]

My husband really doesn't have much interest in financial planning other than very superficially. So he's basically okay with me taking charge of everything. Which is okay in some cases, but kind of a burden as well, as I feel like I'm having to take on more responsibility. So I've told him it would be helpful to me and ultimately both of us if he did make a bit more effort to really participate when I do occasionally ask him to, and that I would try to refrain from boring him with all the little details.

I've told him that if he has no interest in taking an active role, that I'm fine with dealing with it but he still has to sit through some "updates" and supply a basic input/thought on any decisions, because I need him to at least sort-of understand what we're doing and what our financial status is, and that I'll still need him to give some deep thought to things like actual RE timelines and what he wants to do so I'm not completely running the show without any of his input.

[AJ]

For the first part of our marriage, DH just let me handle it all as well. We both thought that was awesome, since I loved that stuff and he hated it. But it ended up putting us in more of a parent-child role that I would like. If he wanted to spend a large amount of money, he was essentially asking my "permission" and I didn't like it. Plus it puts all the pressure on the financial spouse to properly handle major decisions, while the other just sits back for the ride.

One thing that really helped us was going through the Dave Ramsey classes. It was no new information for me, but going through it side by side helped get us on the same page together, and it got him more involved in the finance stuff. It's as much a "motivational" class as it is financial, and you could see it got him more excited than just listening to me. I know some people can't get past his "schmooziness" or the religious aspect, and that's understandable. But it helped us...YMMV.

[Cassie]

My hubby in general is not interested in the planning but wants updates. typically he agrees with my plan so it has not presented any real problems.

[kkbmustang]

Actually, holding her attention for 30 minutes is pretty good. I mean, are you trying to tell her all about excel formulas and nitty gritty stuff (I'd get bored with that, too) or are you going over big picture with the smaller details broken up over time?

Maybe you can have a set appointment each week for like 20 minutes. That would be a good chunk of time in a month. I mean, once you hammer out the issues you need to discuss, maintenance mode shouldn't be that time intensive. Meet her where she is. She may eventually be able to last longer.

[Jules13]

Does she not like her job?  What kind of adventure does she want?  Does she have other goals?  Does she express why she's unfulfilled?  Sounds like there are other things that are more important to her right now than saving.  Perhaps that's the issue and why she doesn't like talking about it.  Because there are other things on her heart that she'd rather talk about?  Sounds like you might have different priorities that probably need to be worked out and understood before you can determine the retirement age thing.

My husband hates to talk about that sort of stuff.  It's like pulling teeth and so annoying to try to figure out what his "goals" are.  Basically...he doesn't have any.  Never has.  Which baffles me.  He just drifts through life, waiting for things to happen to him.  He's brilliant though and fortunate that he's been successful so far. But, honestly, even after I talk to him, I'm still never sure if it's something he really wants to do or if he's just going along.  It's just too easygoing sometimes.  But, I did feel like I had a bit of a breakthrough lately. 

I will admit that I'm a bit like your spouse, in that I want more adventure too, but I am also tired of it all being my idea.  I want my husband to have that spirit as well and get excited about doing something or going somewhere, otherwise it's just not as much fun. 

So, yes, not much help, but I feel your frustration.

[MKinVA]

The first discussion you need to have is what is the more adventure before you can figure out how to make that happen financially. Maybe it doesn't even involve money. Maybe she wants to be more involved with the community. If you are not going to have kids, she may need an outlet for nurturing that she is just recognizing.

Then you can have a discussion around how do we make that happen as opposed to a strictly financial discussion.

[vespito]

Thanks for the responses - all of you.  I think maybe I am too focused on the financial end of things and need to take a step back.

@Frankies Girl - sounds like a similar setup to us - does your husband end up giving feedback that helps?

@AJ - Thanks for the info on the class. My wife and I each have our own money (in addition to our joint money) - she does do her own budgeting so she is taking some responsibility.   on the class too.

@Cassie - My wife was the same, although maybe not quite as agreeable to my plans :)

@kbmustang - Thanks for the perspective.  I suppose 30 minutes is a lot.  We only go over finances once in a while.  Every couple of weeks I give her a very quick update on how our budget is doing (i.e. we're doing ok on groceries this month, we need to wait to do some non-urgent apartment maintenance until next month, etc.).  It's more the big picture stuff that's the issue.  Maybe because she just doesn't have the answers to questions like "So, what kind of goals should we set for ourselves".

@Jules13 - I think in a lot of ways, you are right.  We are both spending a lot of time trying to figure out what will make us happy (i.e. how do we want to spend our time).  Her job is a very love/hate thing.  There are very few jobs available for what she does (it's a dying art), so moving to a new employer is not really an option.  We've looked into her setting up her own shop, but she is not interested and financially it would not really work out.  Lastly, yes, I do need to come up with fun ideas and some more surprises.  I'm working on it!

@MKinVA - I think community involvement would be a really good thing for both of us.

[Zikoris]

We don't really talk about goals since we only have one - early retirement. There's really not much to talk about. "Do you still want to retire early?" "Yup." "Okay, then." We don't have any sort of mini-goals.

We do talk about finances a lot. I track spending for both of us, so I pretty frequently ask him what a transaction was so I can Mint categorize it, and he pretty frequently asks me what our six month average is for a particular category, or what our spending total for the month is, or to look up when he bought something.

I would have a real issue with it if he didn't like discussing money.

[Eric]

We don't really talk about goals since we only have one - early retirement. There's really not much to talk about. "Do you still want to retire early?" "Yup." "Okay, then." We don't have any sort of mini-goals.

This made me chuckle.  Pretty much the same over here.

[arebelspy]

We don't really talk about goals since we only have one - early retirement. There's really not much to talk about. "Do you still want to retire early?" "Yup." "Okay, then." We don't have any sort of mini-goals.

This made me chuckle.  Pretty much the same over here.

We were like this for a number of years (with me just updating her on real estate acquisitions, so someone index funding could easily skip that part, and then me updating her when certain milestones were reached), but we talk more about it now, because it's getting closer, so serious plans for post FIRE need to be researched and made and some even launched into motion.

[wtjbatman]

When I started thinking Mustachian back in October, my girlfriend thought I was just in a phase. She thought I was obsessed and it was going to blow over. Well I probably was a little obsessed, but it definitely wasn't just a phase. And my girlfriend has gone from thinking credit card debt is ok because "everyone has it" to being completely on board with my ideas of paying off debt and saving money. She still doesn't like to talk about any specifics of early retirement as she considers it to be too far in the future. Baby steps.

I'm honestly just excited about how well we do communicate our financial goals now, especially compared to just a few months ago.

[deborah]

We have already retired. For a long time before retirement we worked on things separately, with discussion about once a year. We both knew that we had more money than the people we worked with (Although workmates don't talk about money, they tend to talk about problems, and you get a feeling for what they have). Then I talked to a financial planner (several years after we could have retired), and the planner wanted to talk with both of us. As a result, we started discussing things together. Now we update things together every fortnight.

However, I think that goals are not just financial - especially the MMM way. Why do you both want FI? What do you want to do with FI? Is your partner wanting things to be more adventurous NOW or at FI? Virtual piles of money in an Excel spreadsheet don't enthuse everyone. Maybe you need to paint a picture together of your life goals, not just your financial goals. Perhaps your wife is frustrated that only one part of your life ahead is being fleshed out (the money rather than the lifestyle).

Knowing the look and feel of what you are aiming for can change directions before FI. For example, if your wife wants to move, it may be better to move now, if you move somewhere you can achieve FI earlier.

One of our problems was that we had no concept of the post retirement lifestyle we wanted - apart from being happy as we were, and wanting more of that - without work.

[Squirrel away]

My husband lets me deal with financial things which is quite annoying in some ways as I worry about making a mistake. We were both quite happy about paying down our mortgage but now we have decided against that we are both a bit nervous now.

[Thegoblinchief]

A little bit like parent-child here.

Any time I change parameters on savings percentages and such I run it past her. The monthly budget is kept right on the fridge for her to see, and whenever she asks for more info I give it to her.

That said, her main interaction with our finances and goals are reading my blog posts.

[hybrid]

I think about finances every single day. I don't think I would call it obsession because I am a numbers guy at heart so numbers are always in the front of my brain. Given that very little actually changes from day to day aside from the slow and steady march to FI I don't discuss finances with the missus - who is not a numbers gal - day to day. I keep a financial spreadsheet and at the end of each month I let her know how we did the previous month (March has been a good one in spite of a mostly flat market - woohoo!), this check-up takes maybe 15 minutes a month. Since neither one of us is throwing cash around on frivolous things our budget is mostly on auto-pilot. I continue to look for ways to optimize but the reality is all of the low hanging fruit has been plucked at this point, now I am trying to find ways to save tens of dollars vs. the thousands we found when we started down this path nearly a year ago.

This will change more when the missus nears retirement in a few years, we will be making a lot of changes then and the planning discussions will need to be more frequent. Until then I'd be worrying her with needless details.

[soccerluvof4]

I went into ER about 2 years ago and my wife wants to keep working for our company doing accounting etc.. so its a good thing financially but totally her choice.  Basically, she seems hot and cold on the talk as I like Hybrid am constantly thinking about it, reading about and  figuring out how to save the next 10$. We are on our way but have a ways to go. What I did is starting giving her the list of books I wanted to read and now she started reading some as well.  Setting up like personal Capital and Mint I asked for her help not really saying why and downloading the information so now she is seeing it. Bottom line I am exposing it to her slowly and she is coming around BUT I am not shoving down her throat. She actually now is starting to make suggestions as well. This has been over the course of about 3 months now and we have been saving a ton and made significant changes. I think for her she was more afraid. She came from a frugal house and I spoiled her and now backing down (though she is very low maintenance and not a spender) maybe is part of it. Anyhow, If anyone is worried I would try this plan as its working so far for me.

[phred]

We communicate monthly since paid monthly.  Looking at numbers on a spreadsheet frequently causes eye-glazing on both of us.  We do better by changing the numbers into different colored graphs - much more fun.  Looking at the graphs we discuss where we are on track, where not, any changes to make, and what we hope to achieve the coming month. 

[pachnik]

Around here, we are in the too old for early retirement camp.  But I do believe that being smart with money is never a bad idea and I am so grateful I found this place. 

Having said that, we keep our money separate.  We communicate frequently on a casual basis.  I often look at this site in the morning and my husband will walk by me and say "How is your mustache today?"  :)  I tell him that it is coming along. 

We discuss our plans and I keep him informed as to how my investments are doing once in a while.  We also talk about any debt that we may have and how we are paying it off.  Right now, I am sending $ to my RRSP on a monthly basis and my husband is working very hard on paying off his car loan.  Just this morning actually, we talked about cars in retirement - perhaps joining a car co-op rather than owning our own car.   So, communication about planning but not so much about goals.

[countdown]

Def parent child style in my house. My husband hates talking about finances and will listen for about 15 minutes before shutting down. On the bright side, he's gone from "it's not possible to save enough money to never work again" last year to now seeing the feasibility of the plan. It is a bummer to have no one in real life to talk to about all my financial tweaks.

[rescuedog]

I'd say we talk about it weekly.  I like to keep track of daily expenses in my spreadhseet.  I then email my H a graph of the spending and categories.  Sometimes he doesn't think we spend as much, but the numbers help keep it all real.  We have not tried to curb any spending, but mostly trying to get a feel for what our spending will be like for early retirement.

As far as retirement, paying house off, all that stuff, we talk about it a couple times a month.  I probably talk about it too much.  I open my retirement spreadsheet at least once a day while sitting at work!

He's very busy with proposals at work right now and he has made it clear he isn't available to sit down and hash out more retirement spreadsheets with me for a couple more weeks due to work.  So I'll do my best to leave him alone!  Meanwhile I'll run a bunch of numbers and we'll compare notes (he has done the same thing, but we need to see if we're in the same ballpark).

I'd ask your wife when she is about to shut down -what exactly is making her shut down?  Why?  See if she can get to some deep seeded issues to help explain what is happening.

[nawhite]

I've told him that if he has no interest in taking an active role, that I'm fine with dealing with it but he still has to sit through some "updates" and supply a basic input/thought on any decisions, because I need him to at least sort-of understand what we're doing and what our financial status is, and that I'll still need him to give some deep thought to things like actual RE timelines and what he wants to do so I'm not completely running the show without any of his input.

This is basically how it works with us. My wife couldn't figure out why she even needed to hear the basic updates and be a part of any decisions at all for a while. Then one day we were watching Downton Abbey and (spoiler alert) they lose like 80% of their money overnight. The women in the family have no idea why it happened and second guess the investment choices and get very upset about something they cared not-at-all about 2 days before. The family is thrown into chaos trying to figure out a way to get by. When that happened in the show, I paused it and said "This is why you have to be in on some of the decisions. So that you can't be completely taken off guard when something goes wrong and you won't end up blaming me given that you take no interest in it now."

Fortunately that got the point across. She recognizes that giving me complete control is a choice of hers and that she would have to be ok with the consequences of that choice. Given that, she prefers to make the active choice to be minimally involved.

[alphalemming]

What you describe isn't too much unlike my situation.  Fortunately, our outlooks on finances are pretty compatible.  If she wants to experience more adventure, have her give you some ideas of what you'd like to do, price out various options for each one as well as some alternatives and then be prepared to have a discussion about what impact doing A, B, C or some combination of them will do to the finances.  Maybe if you can develop a long term plan for taking on some of those trips, there won't be such a huge hit on the finances.

[vespito]

Thanks everyone for your comments.  Last Friday night, we were having a few drinks and got on the topic of more adventure, finances, etc. As I had a few drinks, I got pretty excited at the thought of us both never working again, and explained - rather passionately - that what I am really trying to accomplish is self-sufficiency and never having to rely on someone (an employer, customer, etc.) for a paycheck again.  While she thought my verbal onslaught was pretty humorous (did I mention I had a few drinks?), I think it became clear how important this is to me; it's not about having loads of money but about us having loads of freedom and a lot less stress.  It also meant a lot to her that I was really invested in our future.  We'll see how it goes...

[Elaine]

My SO isn't particularly interested in every little detail, I handle most of it for now. Is it annoying sometimes? Sure it is! I sent him updates via email about everything we're (I'm) doing, just so he knows, he rarely has much to add. BUT, look at the other side. Does he tell me every time he cleans the bathroom? Does he show me his technique for folding laundry and which times the laundromat is least crowded? No. He doesn't, because he has it covered. It's the same thing.

[nawhite]

My SO isn't particularly interested in every little detail, I handle most of it for now. Is it annoying sometimes? Sure it is! I sent him updates via email about everything we're (I'm) doing, just so he knows, he rarely has much to add. BUT, look at the other side. Does he tell me every time he cleans the bathroom? Does he show me his technique for folding laundry and which times the laundromat is least crowded? No. He doesn't, because he has it covered. It's the same thing.

I disagree with your argument here. If your SO folds the laundry wrong, you end up with wrinkles. If they clean the bathroom wrong, you end up with mold. In either case, your life isn't really affected that much.

If you mess up the finances, you both end up bankrupt and homeless on the street (in the extreme case). I feel that a person should be knowledgeable about all decisions which can affect them that extremely. Not caring or trusting someone else to do it (either a financial adviser or a SO) just sounds lazy and irresponsible.

[payitoff]

there are good days and not-so-good days with DH here either, i have been quite successful with giving him hints about dividends and saving more but i have to discuss that in perfect timing.  when he is in better mood that is.  try to take her out for some happy hour and candidly chit chat with her, it will flow freely with alcohol sometimes., i guess some people just feels restricted when we start talking about finances. 

yesterday was one of our not-so-good days, told him we only have $50 to spend last weekend, and he casually responded to the kids "because mommy used all our money to pay the bills"  looks like mommy was the bad guy last weekend >___<

[payitoff]

Thanks everyone for your comments.  Last Friday night, we were having a few drinks and got on the topic of more adventure, finances, etc. As I had a few drinks, I got pretty excited at the thought of us both never working again, and explained - rather passionately - that what I am really trying to accomplish is self-sufficiency and never having to rely on someone (an employer, customer, etc.) for a paycheck again.  While she thought my verbal onslaught was pretty humorous (did I mention I had a few drinks?), I think it became clear how important this is to me; it's not about having loads of money but about us having loads of freedom and a lot less stress.  It also meant a lot to her that I was really invested in our future.  We'll see how it goes...

oh you already had a few drinks! told ya alcohol does the trick ;)

[pipercat]

My husband really doesn't have much interest in financial planning other than very superficially. So he's basically okay with me taking charge of everything. Which is okay in some cases, but kind of a burden as well, as I feel like I'm having to take on more responsibility. So I've told him it would be helpful to me and ultimately both of us if he did make a bit more effort to really participate when I do occasionally ask him to, and that I would try to refrain from boring him with all the little details.

I've told him that if he has no interest in taking an active role, that I'm fine with dealing with it but he still has to sit through some "updates" and supply a basic input/thought on any decisions, because I need him to at least sort-of understand what we're doing and what our financial status is, and that I'll still need him to give some deep thought to things like actual RE timelines and what he wants to do so I'm not completely running the show without any of his input.

You've just described my husband!  I agree that we both need knowledge of at least a simplified version of our finances.  It can sometimes induce stress because I feel like I carry the load of making all the decisions.  OTOH, I'm interested in the topic and would likely be unable to relinquish control if needed.

The only thing that I would definitely suggest, is that you be on the same page with regards to your goals.  The day to day monotony of our spending may not be that important to discuss, but the big picture certainly is!  We have a ways to go in this area, so we are a work in progress.

[oldtoyota]

Hourly.

[steveo]

Hourly.

We communicate a lot on as well. Not hourly but probably daily.

[RMD]

I never really thought about it. He tracks everything and pays attention to the day to day and the details. He thinks ER is a flight of fancy.  He humors me, but I can see the eyes glaze over very quickly.  I have the longer range plan.  He manages the pennies into dollars, I take the dollars and put them to work.  But we don't really discuss it in great detail. 

[Squirrel away]

yesterday was one of our not-so-good days, told him we only have $50 to spend last weekend, and he casually responded to the kids "because mommy used all our money to pay the bills"  looks like mommy was the bad guy last weekend >___<

Hmm, did that annoy you? It would have pissed me off if I had been in your position.

[MrsPete]

When we were younger and were still establishing "our rules" for spending, we talked frequently about spending and saving.  Now it's just sixth sense for us.  Twice a year (around New Years and on our anniversary, which falls in the summer) we sit down and review all our numbers; we rarely have a surprise, but it keeps us both abreast of our status.  Other than that, we might discuss a major purchase . . . or we might just acknowledge that something "needs doing" (for example, right now we need some plumbing work done), and one of us will go take care of it. 

[plainjane]

yesterday was one of our not-so-good days, told him we only have $50 to spend last weekend, and he casually responded to the kids "because mommy used all our money to pay the bills"  looks like mommy was the bad guy last weekend >___<

No, it looks like Mommy demonstrated an adult approach towards responsibilities and prioritization.  Perhaps this would be an opportunity to discuss which bills could go away, so all your money didn't go towards them?

[Elaine]

My SO isn't particularly interested in every little detail, I handle most of it for now. Is it annoying sometimes? Sure it is! I sent him updates via email about everything we're (I'm) doing, just so he knows, he rarely has much to add. BUT, look at the other side. Does he tell me every time he cleans the bathroom? Does he show me his technique for folding laundry and which times the laundromat is least crowded? No. He doesn't, because he has it covered. It's the same thing.

I disagree with your argument here. If your SO folds the laundry wrong, you end up with wrinkles. If they clean the bathroom wrong, you end up with mold. In either case, your life isn't really affected that much.

If you mess up the finances, you both end up bankrupt and homeless on the street (in the extreme case). I feel that a person should be knowledgeable about all decisions which can affect them that extremely. Not caring or trusting someone else to do it (either a financial adviser or a SO) just sounds lazy and irresponsible.

I agree, which is why I said, " I sent him updates via email about everything we're (I'm) doing, just so he knows". So we do communicate about it, it's just that I know when it comes time to research something the bulk of it will be me doing the legwork. He is absolutely aware of everything we do and why we do it, and on occasion he has countered with good arguments, but it is generally something I take care of. As for the housework, I could have included utilities and day to day bills in my example, which if he does not pay we could get evicted and/or have power turned off. Just as I know how much the electric bill is, he knows where are money is going, which it sounds like the OP does as well. The OP just seems to want even more hands on/ one on one in depth discussion of detailed financial stuff, which may or may not be totally necessary.

[ShortInSeattle]

We have a big talk each year as we go through the budgeting process.  He drafts the budget, I review it and make suggestions and ask questions.  Once we are agreed on it, it is set.    This usually happens in November or December.

(He's the detail guy, I'm the big-picture girl. I'm so grateful that he handles the detail stuff, which would drive me nuts.)

The rest of the year our finance talk is pretty minor.  He quickly checks our transactions every week or two, and I usually pop over his shoulder to look at our reports to see how our spending compares to our budget. If there is an unusual expense we talk about it. If he sees a transaction that looks odd he asks about it.  Sometimes big recurring payments come up (insurance premiums, for example) and we check-in with each other on if we should shop around.

But this is all pretty low key.  Perhaps five minutes of chatting, about once a month?  Most weeks are pretty routine.

We tried the whole "monthly finance meeting" thing but it felt like a chore.  So we stopped.

[payitoff]

yesterday was one of our not-so-good days, told him we only have $50 to spend last weekend, and he casually responded to the kids "because mommy used all our money to pay the bills"  looks like mommy was the bad guy last weekend >___<

Hmm, did that annoy you? It would have pissed me off if I had been in your position.

yeah, even if it was a joke but we both agreed to pay debts aggressively, i just ignored it and let it pass, and think of the bigger picture.  i just choose my battles, mommy is too exhausted for petty stuff nowadays lol