How much of the readership here do you think will stick around?

[Bearded Man]

It's easy for someone to find this place and sign up, post for a while. But what is the turnover here? How many people stop posting and go back to consumerism? Ever wonder?

[matchewed]

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mlist/

[bauhauss]

I wouldn't say "back to consumerism", but I think as we start to read all of posts, the topics tendo to become " more of the same". It has happened to me in other forums around the web.

[G-dog]

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mlist/

It would be handy if the list also included last post date or last log in date or a generic last activity date. I don't read all the threads, so I imagine I only see a subset of the users that also frequent those threads and further bother to post.

[Bearded Man]

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mlist/

It would be handy if the list also included last post date or last log in date or a generic last activity date. I don't read all the threads, so I imagine I only see a subset of the users that also frequent those threads and further bother to post.

Yep. On other forums I used to visit they showed the number of registered users, which looks impressive from a marketing perspective. But a lot of people stop posting eventually. If we had access to the database or SSRS/Visual studio we could run a query/report to see how many people have logged in the last x months vs total registered users. I wonder what the attrition rate is.

[matchewed]

I'm more pointing to the fact that if you're truly curious all the answers can be derived through going through that list and looking at people. You can see when they last logged in. There will be your answer(s).

[Bearded Man]

I'm more pointing to the fact that if you're truly curious all the answers can be derived through going through that list and looking at people. You can see when they last logged in. There will be your answer(s).

Right, I'll get started going through the 23,302 records. When I'm finished in eight YEARS, I'll let you now the results. I'm sure they will be valid then.

[Cathy]

I'm more pointing to the fact that if you're truly curious all the answers can be derived through going through that list and looking at people. You can see when they last logged in. There will be your answer(s).

Right, I'll get started going through the 23,302 records. When I'm finished in eight YEARS, I'll let you now the results. I'm sure they will be valid then.

It would be a simple matter to write a script to scrape the user list and extract whatever information you want. It should take 30 minutes at most to write such a program.

[matchewed]

I'm more pointing to the fact that if you're truly curious all the answers can be derived through going through that list and looking at people. You can see when they last logged in. There will be your answer(s).

Right, I'll get started going through the 23,302 records. When I'm finished in eight YEARS, I'll let you now the results. I'm sure they will be valid then.

So either you don't care or just want someone to do leg work for you? Reminder you started this thread, I'm just pointing to where the answer is. Up to you whether to follow it or not. Also that data would still be valid, time doesn't invalidate that type of data.

[Teacherstache]

I have a very low post count. However, I've been reading here for about a year. It took me a couple of months to register and then a couple more months to post anything at all. Even though I'm not posting much, I'm reading all the valuable information, and plan on sticking around. This is such a motivating place for me to be.

[Bearded Man]

I'm more pointing to the fact that if you're truly curious all the answers can be derived through going through that list and looking at people. You can see when they last logged in. There will be your answer(s).

Right, I'll get started going through the 23,302 records. When I'm finished in eight YEARS, I'll let you now the results. I'm sure they will be valid then.

So either you don't care or just want someone to do leg work for you? Reminder you started this thread, I'm just pointing to where the answer is. Up to you whether to follow it or not. Also that data would still be valid, time doesn't invalidate that type of data.

Actually it would invalidate the data, as some people are bound to log back in at some interval. I know I do at other sites. By the time you get through all the records using this manual labor method, some of the data is invalid. A query would allow us a more accurate picture at specific points in time.

Nevermind, I apologize, I will use your reasonable suggestion and start going through the pages one by one. Wait here for me. I'll report shortly.

[James]

To answer your question... no, I don't wonder.


People sign up, people post, people leave, people return, who knows why or what their consumption is or whether they are more or less mustachian when they leave than when they come.


I'm honestly not knocking your question, I'm sure it's perfectly valid to wonder. I just have to be honest that I don't care. :)

[Migrator Soul]

I feel that the user list is a fairly deceptive way to judge how long somebody has been around.

I have been lurking for a while, close to a year or so, however, it is only within the last six months or so that I have decided to post/troll/contribute to these forums. I know I have been reading MMM and practicing frugality for about two years now.

[Roadhog]

I have a very low post count. However, I've been reading here for about a year. It took me a couple of months to register and then a couple more months to post anything at all. Even though I'm not posting much, I'm reading all the valuable information, and plan on sticking around. This is such a motivating place for me to be.

+1  I've been around a bit longer, but I can't tell you all how much I have learned mostly from reading everything.

[MDM]

FWIW, there are ~700 people who have
 - made 165 or more total posts, and
 - have posted at least once since 1-Oct-15.

[Adram]

I'm more interested in how long mr moustache is gonna stick around, considering his blog post frequency has gone through the floor. I guess that could also affect longevity of forum users also.

[RunHappy]

TBH I'm taking a small break from here.  This used to be one of the forums I would check daily, now I'm here MAYBE once a week.  It is not that I've fallen off the wagon or anything, it is because I feel like with my financial situation I have nothing to do right now.  I have a mortgage and a few monthly bills, but that is about it.   Every dollar I earn has a purpose.  I'm investing, maxing out, etc.  There really isn't much I CAN do right now. 

The other reason, is I see a lot of quasi MMM posts going on here. I started feeling frustrated by seeing these same how-can-i-retire-early-get-out-of-debt-without-changing-my-life-too-much type posts over and over again.  I figured if I was getting frustrated by forum posts than I needed to take a time out. 

[CorpRaider]

ERE's been going for a long freaking time. 

[rob in cal]

   One nice thing is to follow different journals and watch people make big changes in their personal finances over time.  If anything, this makes the forum more interesting than others.

[Zoot Allures]

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mlist/

Cool. I just learned that I was one of the first thousand members (registered in May 2012). I rarely post, and it was really MMM's blog posts that provided the most value to me in the early days when this site was blowing my mind. I recall a period on the forums when traffic seemed to increase sharply and there were a lot of urgent discussions about the exact definition of "mustachianism" and whether people were applying the philosophy correctly. Seems kind of quaint in hindsight.

I may stop visiting the site at some point, but I'm definitely "sticking around" if you define that as permanently changing my personal finance practices as a result of discovering this site.

[moneyandmillennials]

you'll probably have a good amount of turnover from people who go from frequently reading to maybe checking once in a awhile.

but similar to riding a bike, the values held won't go away when people stop visiting the website =)

[Orvell]

you'll probably have a good amount of turnover from people who go from frequently reading to maybe checking once in a awhile.

but similar to riding a bike, the values held won't go away when people stop visiting the website =)

Bingo. :) I was on this site a lot back in, I think 2013. Then I took a year+ beak and somewhat recently got back in. But that didn't mean I stopped saving money or any shit like that. Being a posting member here =/= being MMM

Frankly, the reason I stopped spending time here was that some of the forum members and discussion topics were not great for my mental health. :/ And I'm not 100% sure that's changed.
It's not that MMM is 'too much' and I'm reverting back to mindless capitalistic behavior when I flit in and out, it's that the judgmental tone that some folks get is... sometimes too much, and my escapism internet time doesn't need to be filled with feeling uncomfortable.

:) We're all in this boat together, even if some of us take breaks.

[thd7t]

ERE's been going for a long freaking time.

ERE has been recycling posts for years. I don't know when the last time Jacob made a new post, there.

[NICE!]

I'm honestly not knocking your question, I'm sure it's perfectly valid to wonder. I just have to be honest that I don't care. :)

So you hopped in here to say you don't care, albeit politely?

[FenderBender]

unlike sports and politics there are no new players here so recycled topics is inevitable.   

[arebelspy]

I'm honestly not knocking your question, I'm sure it's perfectly valid to wonder. I just have to be honest that I don't care. :)

So you hopped in here to say you don't care, albeit politely?

Sure!

The OP's question was:

Ever wonder?

If the only people who came in here to post were ones interested, then the OP doesn't get their question answered.  By James hopping in to say no, he didn't, he helped let the OP know the answer to their question, that there were people that didn't wonder that.  It sure was kind of him to take a moment to answer a question on something he didn't care about.  :)

[arebelspy]

ERE's been going for a long freaking time.

ERE has been recycling posts for years. I don't know when the last time Jacob made a new post, there.

He posted there today (on the forums--he's quite active, and posts a lot).

Forums > blogs.  ;)

[Faraday]

It's easy for someone to find this place and sign up, post for a while. But what is the turnover here? How many people stop posting and go back to consumerism? Ever wonder?

It's a good question that I have asked myself from time to time. I'm in agreement with the idea "I don't care" because all I CAN care about is my own life and loved ones. But I do care about why people are here and why they are posting and if they have anything to offer or not. I don't want to swab the decks on a ship of fools.

I think there are some people who show up here looking for "get rich quick" schemes and have absolutely no intention of living a frugal, badass life. I theorize they pop up here, then leave the forums never to return, thinking we're all a bunch of nutjobs.

I post "a lot" right now because posting helps me cope with the nervous anxiety I have because I've done everything I can at this point to accelerate to FIRE and I'm simply in the wealth accumulation phase. I read people's posting history to find out how they think and what they talk about, and I dialogue with people I think might be in the same frame of mind. Sometimes I post in their journals with questions or comments.

There's a Whole30 thread I post in extensively, I feel bonded to the people in that thread. I do keto, a kind of "cousin diet" to Whole30 and we trade a lot of information and rejoice at milestones. I find these kind of diets actually dovetail very well with Mustachianism. They are subversive to the dominant paradigm, life-changing for the participant and badass in the very same way.

I used to deliver facepunches, but then I realized some people are here only for "good deals": the lifestyle itself only means suffering to them. They don't get the intrinsic goodness of Badassity. I quit doing that because it's hollow and because, sometimes, people turn out to be quick learners with a lot of information to share.

I am amazed and thankful that ANYONE posts after they FIRE. This includes people like arebelspy, James, Jon_Snow, RootOfGood, GoCurryCracker, Retiredat53, etc. I read and read and re-read the things they write to learn what life is like after FIRE.

In real life, my wife and I are still in the "danger zone" where we could possibly lose our house if we don't achieve FIRE and get the mortgage paid off. When she came to the realization of what was driving me and she said: "Thank you for keeping me out of poverty." Honestly, I thought my heart was gonna bust out of my chest when she said that.

I'd seen where we were headed for 10 years prior to finding MMM. I was searching, hard, for what to do. I had nothing to go on. I knew no one and had no examples or information, and the stock market and investing were just risky minefields where you lost everything you had. MMM changed all that and kept me and my wife from going to financial hell.

Whether I post or not, I'll never, ever go back to mindless consumerism.

[The_path_less_taken]

Wow, Faraday! Just....wow. Cool on you, big time.

OP- I read a lot more than I post. On the rare day (Sunday normally although I took today off) at work when it's slow, I browse but don't log in as I don't want those people knowing my handle.

So no posting going on.

I used to log in looking for new MMM posts but those have no regular schedule I can figure out any longer so I sometimes forget to check if there is a new one.

[RetiredAt63]

Is there a RetiredAt53?  Wow, 10 years earlier than I managed! (Or it could be a typo).

I find that what I read now is not what I read when I first joined - my lifestyle has changed a lot in those 2.5 years.  I was always frugal, but am now semi-mustachian.  Partly better money management, partly a shift in attitude.  And always something to learn here, the people on this forum are amazing.  And since we can arrange meet-ups, it is even better (HI everyone out in BC!!!).

I am amazed and thankful that ANYONE posts after they FIRE. This includes people like arebelspy, James, Jon_Snow, RootOfGood, GoCurryCracker, Retiredat53, etc. I read and read and re-read the things they write to learn what life is like after FIRE.

In real life, my wife and I are still in the "danger zone" where we could possibly lose our house if we don't achieve FIRE and get the mortgage paid off. When she came to the realization of what was driving me and she said: "Thank you for keeping me out of poverty." Honestly, I thought my heart was gonna bust out of my chest when she said that.

I'd seen where we were headed for 10 years prior to finding MMM. I was searching, hard, for what to do. I had nothing to go on. I knew no one and had no examples or information, and the stock market and investing were just risky minefields where you lost everything you had. MMM changed all that and kept me and my wife from going to financial hell.

Whether I post or not, I'll never, ever go back to mindless consumerism.

[ChrisLansing]

I registered 4/6/14.   I posted quite a bit when I first registered.   I don't post much anymore.   I'm even more mustachian than when I registered (Well, that ain't sayin a helll of a lot).    As with most forums, it becomes "old" after a while.      That's not to say it isn't still valuable at times.   I've read quite a bit here the past year and a half, but I  don't really have a lot of need to come here daily or even weekly.    The "new car smell" is gone.  :-)      But the lessons have stayed with me, and I've been trying to get my nieces and nephews to be a little more Mustachian.     

[BudgetSlasher]

I will echo what others have said, leaving the forums does not equate to going back to consumerism (if they were even there before they registered).

I visited MMM blogposts for over a year before I signed up for the forum (recently; check my post count) and I am still deciding if I will be active in these forums, lurk in them, or go back to simply reading the blogposts. Honestly mot of the posts are similar stories with different fact-patterns, but every-once-in-a-while I see something interesting or relevant to me. Whether that will be enough to keep me around is still to be determined.

[pachnik]

Hard to say in answer to the original question.  I can only speak for myself and I don't think I will ever go back to mindless consumerism either like an above poster mentioned.  I don't know if I will always hang around the forum though.  I like to think if someone spends a fair amount of time here they won't be able to go back to crazy spending. 

[partgypsy]

I think the original question is a good one (how many people read or participate in MMM) and what are the relative outcomes for those people? How many improved their financial situation, how many really improved their financial situation, and how many left with either a) transient improvement and back to usual routine) or b) never really changed?
I don't think that answer can be simply answered by looking at registration or post counts, but if there was a voluntary system where people posted pre mmm and post mmm outcomes at regular intervals. I know some of that can be derived by the logs and case studies, but only for a fraction of the readership.

I am not a "true" mustachian and my goal is not to retire early, so some here would see me as a failure. But reading the posts and threads help me more clearly define my values, question my spending as well as provide inspiration, so I will continue to return.

[James]

I'm honestly not knocking your question, I'm sure it's perfectly valid to wonder. I just have to be honest that I don't care. :)

So you hopped in here to say you don't care, albeit politely?

Arebelspy already gave what I would have said, so that is covered :)

I will simply add that I don't think it is very mustachian to care about those who go back to consumerism. I don't think MMM cares all that much about anyone who has a negative response to his blog or his ideas, either at first or after a while of following. I think he enjoys that people are responding and is glad that some are making changes which greatly impact their lives, and in some small way are impacting culture in general, but I don't think he cares about those who look and say "no thank you".

So to clarify, I care about those who stay are are part of the MMM culture, and the rest I don't wonder about one bit. We aren't here to save the world, we are here to live life well for ourselves. It's a distinction that is important to me personally, which is why I replied to your post.

[I'm a red panda]

I wouldn't say "back to consumerism", but I think as we start to read all of posts, the topics tendo to become " more of the same". It has happened to me in other forums around the web.

Yep. Reading here hasn't changed my ways very much (I was already really frugal- though I've moved investments to Vanguard from higher priced places); and leaving here won't change them. 

But after a year it's gotten pretty boring around here. The posts don't change very much; so I've tapered back quite a bit on visiting.

[Faraday]

So to clarify, I care about those who stay are are part of the MMM culture, and the rest I don't wonder about one bit. We aren't here to save the world, we are here to live life well for ourselves. It's a distinction that is important to me personally, which is why I replied to your post.

+1

I've never thought of it as "culture", but I think that's a good way to express the idea. We certainly support each other in ways we should be able to get from our friends and family, but oftentimes, cannot. I'd say that makes us a kind of culture or tribe. (which MMM has literally referred to in one of his recent blog posts)

[2Birds1Stone]

There are some great thought provoking threads in here from time to time. For the most part the content does get very stale very quickly. After being here for a year there is much less keeping me interested than when I first joined.

[brooklynguy]

I will simply add that I don't think it is very mustachian to care about those who go back to consumerism. I don't think MMM cares all that much about anyone who has a negative response to his blog or his ideas, either at first or after a while of following. I think he enjoys that people are responding and is glad that some are making changes which greatly impact their lives, and in some small way are impacting culture in general, but I don't think he cares about those who look and say "no thank you".

So to clarify, I care about those who stay are are part of the MMM culture, and the rest I don't wonder about one bit. We aren't here to save the world, we are here to live life well for ourselves. It's a distinction that is important to me personally, which is why I replied to your post.

I'd say MMM himself actually cares deeply about the extent of his own influence, given that his self-proclaimed objective in creating the blog (and, by extension, founding Mustachianism) precisely was to "save the world," or, in his own words, to  "save the entire human race from destroying itself through overconsumption").  Extending Mustachianism's reach to as many people as possible, or at least to the critical mass necessary to accomplish that lofty mission, is the explicit goal.  So, while it may not (or very well may) matter to any given individual practitioner of Mustachianism whether or not Mustachianism is winning the battle against Consumerism for the hearts and minds of society at large, it is of utmost importance to Mustachiansim itself.  Self-proliferation is only one step removed from Mustachianism's ultimate raison d'etre.

[Faraday]

I will simply add that I don't think it is very mustachian to care about those who go back to consumerism. I don't think MMM cares all that much about anyone who has a negative response to his blog or his ideas, either at first or after a while of following. I think he enjoys that people are responding and is glad that some are making changes which greatly impact their lives, and in some small way are impacting culture in general, but I don't think he cares about those who look and say "no thank you".

So to clarify, I care about those who stay are are part of the MMM culture, and the rest I don't wonder about one bit. We aren't here to save the world, we are here to live life well for ourselves. It's a distinction that is important to me personally, which is why I replied to your post.

I'd say MMM himself actually cares deeply about the extent of his own influence, given that his self-proclaimed objective in creating the blog (and, by extension, founding Mustachianism) precisely was to "save the world," or, in his own words, to  "save the entire human race from destroying itself through overconsumption").  Extending Mustachianism's reach to as many people as possible, or at least to the critical mass necessary to accomplish that lofty mission, is the explicit goal.  So, while it may not (or very well may) matter to any given individual practitioner of Mustachianism whether or not Mustachianism is winning the battle against Consumerism for the hearts and minds of society at large, it is of utmost importance to Mustachiansim itself.  Self-proliferation is only one step removed from Mustachianism's ultimate raison d'etre.

Never thought about it that way brooklynguy, but I think you are right. If he didn't care, he'd be selling mustachianism as a "get rich training course" and making money off all of us.

[elaine amj]

I've been hanging around here on and off for a while since I first found MMM. I go through my periods of posting a lot (I enjoy forums in general) and periods where I don't come on here for a while. I am a whole lot more Mustachian when I hang out on here though - lots of motivation on here!

I think like any forum, people will come and go based on whatever value they feel they derive from the forum. For some, it is the initial education they need as they learn about Mustachianism. Once they have learned what they need, they don't derive any more value from the forum and they move on. For others, they enjoy the sense of community and the support they get. These folks will hang around as long as they continue to identify with the community (or niches within the general community). And there are others who derive a great deal of satisfaction from helping the rest of us and stay here to provide support and education.

Any individual can have one or more of those needs and the level of need also fluctuates. People come and people go. If this community continues to provide value, more people will stay than leave. (I used to run a forum and agonized a lot. As a forum member now, I am much more relaxed about people coming and going lol!)

Side note: I am really, really thankful to all the awesome people on here who give their time and energy to provide support and education - I've learned and gained a lot from this community and only hope that it continues to grow and provide value :)

[oinkette]

Actually it's not the "back to consumerism" that has caused me to stop coming, it's the "okay I've done what I need to and everything is on automatic, now I just wait" that has caused me to stop coming around. It just reminds me that I have a ways to go.  I've cut all I'm willing to. I'm saving enough and have a target date.  Everything else here is just an echo chamber for me. I do enjoy reading the (rare) posts about people FIREing or reaching major milestones, as this is motivational. Otherwise, eh.

[RetiredAt63]

I stay for the social analysis discussions, mostly.  Financially I am on hold, everything is adjusted.  When I move I will be busy re-evaluating choices in light of my new location.

But as posted above, this is really an "anti mindless consumption/pillage the planet" site, so the more effective it is, the better.

[Kaspian]

Cool. I just learned that I was one of the first thousand members (registered in May 2012).

Yeah, wow--I'm on page 2.  ...And I know I lurked for months before registering.

I think if by "readership" the OP means people that return and read several articles over a period of time, I believe LOTS of them will stick around.  Maybe even the majority.  It's been my experience that those working towards FIRE here (or who already reached it) are planners, mathematically inclined, and stubborn as fuck.  Very much like a dog with a bone and the type of people who see projects through to completion.

[mm1970]

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mlist/

This is awesome, and I enjoyed looking at sign up times and # of posts.

[NewPerspective]

I've been around since 2013.  I don't post very much, however I'm an avid lurker.    I tend to focus more on the social analysis conversations, as I always feel I learn something (especially about politics).  We are not very mustachian by most of your standards.  We save about 40% of an above average income.  We spend way too much money on eating and drinking but we don't seem to be motivated to change that.  We have changed some other "low hanging fruit" areas but we still live a somewhat extravagant life by some standards.   I do enjoy reading how others save so much, some of the commentary I find inspiring and some I find off putting.  I just take what I can use and leave the rest.

[matchewed]

So I thought I'd exercise my statistics muscle for the shit of it.

Taking a random sample of 69 members and using the t distribution we can say with 90% confidence that the population mean active registration for this forum is somewhere between 250 days and 394 days. The sample mean was 322.174 days with a sample standard deviation of 357.338 days.

Didn't take 8 years, only a half an hour of data collection.

Notes on what may influence this evaluation: Bots primarily and secondarily it all depends on how you want to define sticking around and readership.

[brooklynguy]

Taking a random sample of 69 members and using the t distribution we can say with 90% confidence that the population mean active registration for this forum is somewhere between 250 days and 394 days. The sample mean was 322.174 days with a sample standard deviation of 357.338 days.

This reflects survivorship bias, no?  (Not sure how big of an issue that really is, because I don't know how common it is for inactive users to take the trouble to actively delete their own accounts.)

[matchewed]

Taking a random sample of 69 members and using the t distribution we can say with 90% confidence that the population mean active registration for this forum is somewhere between 250 days and 394 days. The sample mean was 322.174 days with a sample standard deviation of 357.338 days.

This reflects survivorship bias, no?  (Not sure how big of an issue that really is, because I don't know how common it is for inactive users to take the trouble to actively delete their own accounts.)

True it does reflect some survivorship bias as it is only accounts that have not been deleted. Given the dates that I saw most people sign up and just never sign on again after X amount of time. The deletion of accounts is fairly rare compared to that.

But unless the individuals who delete their accounts are unfathomably skewed from the mean (no real way for them to be as my random sample picked up a great deal of people who had 0 active time and some people who had been here from near beginning and are still active; and logically speaking any deleted account would fall somewhere between those two values) so I am of the opinion that survivorship bias has little to no influence on the numbers.

[Gone Fishing]

I still post on a few other forums where I have been a member for 10+ years, so I'll probably stick around.  Post count should go down a fair bit though after FIRE.  While I enjoy it, I do use the forum to pass time until I can be outside more!