Author Topic: How much do you spend on groceries?  (Read 5988 times)

wageslave23

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How much do you spend on groceries?
« on: May 13, 2020, 02:39:16 PM »
I'm just trying to get a feel for how much I should be spending for groceries.  I eat almost all meals at home and am usually around $175 for myself a month.  My gf spends about the same.  She eats less but also buys some more expensive things.  What is your spending like and how many adults and how many kids is that for?  The lowest I could see is about $150 a month ($1 for breakfast, $2 for 1 lb of meat, $1 for a lb of potatoes, $1 for a lb of fruits and vegetables, per day) but my friend is sort of frugal but not mustachian says he spends about $200-300 a month for a family of 4.  I'm thinking he just isn't keeping good records.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 02:43:33 PM by wageslave23 »

Khaetra

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 03:04:59 PM »
Answers will vary, but I spend (in normal times) about $300/month (that includes toiletries and other household stuff).  With the way things are now, I spend about $500.  Food is higher where I live.

MudPuppy

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 03:10:05 PM »
Not including toiletries or alcohol, roughly $200 for two adults. Lots of months are less, but we spend a bit more during the holidays going to various potlucks (and hopefully will again, in the Time After).

skp

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 03:16:14 PM »
I'm guessing I spend about $600 . $500 a MONTH for 2 adults at Walmart (includes paper products, batteries, soap and toiletries etc.   Anything I pick up at Walmart) and $70 a month at the meat store.    I also have a Peets coffee subscription- Unfortunately, I have an expensive addiction to Peets coffee which I got from finding it at the salvage store for $2.50 a bag until they no longer had it.  Now I'm hooked.  I get it mail ordered freshly roasted- about $45 a month   

2Birds1Stone

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 03:18:22 PM »
About $200/month for two adults in a HCOL area. I have data down to the dollar going back to December of 2014 ;)

wageslave23

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2020, 03:37:44 PM »
About $200/month for two adults in a HCOL area. I have data down to the dollar going back to December of 2014 ;)

Like dollar amounts per visit or breakdown by what was purchased.  I would love to see actual items bought in a month ;)

HPstache

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2020, 03:39:29 PM »
$2 per person, per meal, per day

APowers

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2020, 03:49:47 PM »
I'm just trying to get a feel for how much I should be spending for groceries.  I eat almost all meals at home and am usually around $175 for myself a month.  My gf spends about the same.  She eats less but also buys some more expensive things.  What is your spending like and how many adults and how many kids is that for?  The lowest I could see is about $150 a month ($1 for breakfast, $2 for 1 lb of meat, $1 for a lb of potatoes, $1 for a lb of fruits and vegetables, per day) but my friend is sort of frugal but not mustachian says he spends about $200-300 a month for a family of 4.  I'm thinking he just isn't keeping good records.

You can check out my thread wherein I documented every penny spent on food in 2018. [Spoiler alert, it was $190/month for a family of 4.]

My $200/month spending for a fam of 4 *always* gets oohs and ahhs of astonishment, so I expect your friend is likely just not keeping great records. Then again, maybe he's got his menu and grocery shopping nailed down and you can learn some things!

thesis

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2020, 04:06:31 PM »
Around $250 for myself, but this feels high. If I cut the junk from my diet, this could be a lot lower....

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2020, 04:23:56 PM »
Family of four, two teenage boys. In non-COVID times, adults ate breakfast & lunch at work during the work week, and kids played 15+ hours of sports/week. Our grocery budget was $625/month.

In COVID time, all meals at home, but less sports for the teen. Food isn't on sale, prices are up & we aren't buying the cheapest things (buying what's available) & aren't going to the cheapest stores (not great social distancing options). We also stocked up quite a bit in March/April. Spending is up to around $1k/month. It's not normal for us, and I wouldn't be jazzed about it in the long term, but it is what it is.

SunnyDays

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2020, 04:26:28 PM »
I’m also at 175.00 Cdn for 1 person.  Grocery prices are higher here than in the US though.

Zikoris

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2020, 04:38:23 PM »
These days we normally fall somewhere between $250-$300 for two adults, including household supplies (cleaning stuff, toilet paper, etc), though it's been a higher lately due to the pandemic (~$350).

Schaefer Light

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2020, 04:39:52 PM »
$241/mo so far this year.

chemistk

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2020, 04:40:49 PM »
Edging toward $500 a month on average (non quarantine) for 2 adults, and 3 boys (5, 2.75, 6mos). This includes formula and toiletries.

In the past it was closer to $350 a month but these boys are eating constantly and formula ain't cheap.

One thing that contributes to our higher numbers is that we really limit carbs in the house, since my wife had GD with our 2nd and 3rd babies. The low carb diet has stuck and thus we eat little to no carbs at meals and those we do, we aim for low net carbs or expensive carb substitutes.

Optimiser

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2020, 04:42:54 PM »
Currently about $700/month for a family of 5 (including alcohol, toiletries, diapers, cleaning products, etc.) We were about $100 lower pre-covid.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2020, 04:54:24 PM »
Family of four, two teenage boys. In non-COVID times, adults ate breakfast & lunch at work during the work week, and kids played 15+ hours of sports/week. Our grocery budget was $625/month.

In COVID time, all meals at home, but less sports for the teen. Food isn't on sale, prices are up & we aren't buying the cheapest things (buying what's available) & aren't going to the cheapest stores (not great social distancing options). We also stocked up quite a bit in March/April. Spending is up to around $1k/month. It's not normal for us, and I wouldn't be jazzed about it in the long term, but it is what it is.

This makes me feel better. That's close to what we're doing here now, with 2 college kids home. Definitely stocking up and spending a lot at one go. Our current spend is close to $1000 a month - this is including alcohol (we like pricier beer) and good coffee.

MrTurtle

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2020, 05:10:10 PM »
My wife and I disagree.  She thinks it's $400, I think it's $300 per month for 2 people.  I thought we were doing well until I read this thread.  We make most of our meals at home, out of cheap ingredients (potatoes, rice, pasta, flour, eggs) but I eat a lot.  I think the meat and fresh fruit and vegetables are the expensive part. 

People who spend way less: What kind of food do you usually eat/serve to family?  Where do you buy it and how much do you make yourself?   

Cranky

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2020, 05:13:01 PM »
About a billion dollars right now, because I am taking whatever I can get and I am buying whatever anyone wants, and it’s not like we’re spending money on anything else.

But ordinarily, around $600/month for 3 adults, all meals at home, and I like to cook. It absolutely could be lower, but I’m not much interested in doing that. And extra $200/month on the thing that I really love seems just fine.

wenchsenior

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2020, 05:19:14 PM »
To represent the high food spenders on this board, I'm offering our 2 adults, who consistently spend about $600-650/month, not including eating out (another couple hundred dollars for my husband, almost nothing for me), pet supplies, or booze (which used to add about 175$/month, but I gave up drinking last year and my husband cut down a bit without the 'encouragement' of me drinking, so that's probably 40-50$/month now.

After seeing all these very low numbers people post on this board, I spent about a year tracking/keeping price book/going to different stores /hitting sales, trying to get somewhere in the range of what most people here report.  I was able to cut about 150$ off our overall spending, and the habit of stocking up during meat sales has stuck long term.  But overall, I honestly found that it wasn't worth it to me for the mental effort and the additional trips to stores/types of stores we ended up shopping at. 

I have quite a few food restrictions, and many of our habits we simply aren't willing to change (e.g., wild caught Pacific salmon about 6x per month).  We aren't going to start eating darker, fattier, cheaper meat; we don't eat a lot of cheap carbs; we're going to eat salads with a million ingredients all year regardless of the season, my husband eats Lindt dark chocolate for dessert, etc. 

Oh, and I really dislike cooking, though I'm perfectly adequate at it.  Luckily, I'm also pretty opposed to eating out as a regular activity, so I try to stick to a limited rotation of meals that we know we like and that I can prepare quickly without thinking too much or feeling too irritable about 'kitchen time'. So I'm not inclined to experiment with bulk cooking and such, at least not while I'm still working.  Maybe when we're retired.

So, yeah.  Our consumables bill is ALWAYS considerably bigger than our mortgage, month in and month out. It's definitely our biggest expense in life.  After making an effort to cut the bill, I've definitely concluded it mostly isn't worth the effort (for us).  We have no trouble affording it, so I don't worry about it. I'd rather cut elsewhere (and have).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 05:21:00 PM by wenchsenior »

Serendip

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2020, 05:30:32 PM »
We spend a lot, definitely on the very high end for two people.
But we live in a HCOL area, so we made the choice years ago to shop at our local market rather than try to bargain shop at places 45-90 min away (our market is small, locally owned and 5 min away from the house). We live in a busy tourist area so costs are overall higher in general..it's what we choose to accept by living here.

Also my SO is a very particular eater and like fancy cheeses, etc so we have our different methods--I buy whole foods and spend a lot of time cooking mostly from scratch (which I enjoy) he buys high-end everything (which I eat and enjoy)  :) 

While it's our biggest spend we love to cook & eat and don't see it as a loss.  If single, I'd bring it down substantially but overall it's a joy for us.  We do choose to limit expenditures in other ways in order to balance it out (ie. I don't own a car)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 05:46:34 PM by Serendip »

FIPurpose

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2020, 05:41:09 PM »
I think we're right around 225-250 per month per person. (including toiletries) And that's including that I bake my own bread, shop at Costco, etc. But I have recently been buying more and more organic and higher quality food.

I think people on this board generally under-appreciate the value of high quality food. I think we should consider more than just "how many calories did I get for the money?". If mustachians are truly long-term planners, then that must necessarily extend to planning for late-life health and wellness. For example, consider the nutritional tradeoff between conventional and pastured eggs:

Twice as much vitamin E
38 percent higher vitamin A concentration
Twice as much long-chain Omega-3 fats
2.5x more total Omega-3 fatty acids
Less than half the ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3

The reason most people are on this forum is because they want to spend their money on buying back time rather than things. Well, once you're FI or close to FI, the only way to "buy more time" is to start treating your health with the utmost importance. Plus honestly, buying higher quality ingredients is one of the cheaper ways to improve your quality and quantity of life. It looks like I probably spend about 1000 more per year per person more than most others here. If that $1000 per year investment gives me good health for an additional 5 years or even extends my life 5 years, I'd say that it would be well-worth it.

Not to mention all the ways that higher quality food tends to be harvested in more sustainable and environmentally friendly ways. We need more people buying grass-fed beef and pastured chicken. We also need more people buying organic flours and forcing the market to make the complete switch and completely abandon the use of pesticides like Roundup.

Zikoris

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2020, 05:43:59 PM »
People who spend way less: What kind of food do you usually eat/serve to family?  Where do you buy it and how much do you make yourself?   

I do all our cooking on the weekend. It varies hugely week to week, but last weekend, for example, I made two different types of stir fry, a pasta dish, pot pie, lentil stew, and roasted vegetable/hummus wraps. I've had a few sandwiches as well. Also baked bread and oatmeal muffins. That would be a pretty typical week. We're both vegans and I cook 100% of our food myself. Normally we shop at Chinese markets and cheaper western grocery stores.

Serendip

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2020, 05:48:08 PM »
@FIPurpose  We are on the same page :)

Spiffy

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2020, 05:51:37 PM »
We are a family of 5 with two adults, two teen boys and one tween girl living in a medium sized city in Texas. We average $750 per month, but that includes alcohol, paper goods, sundries, etc. I can't be bothered to figure food only. But we also spend about $100 per month eating out. For a  family of five, even at fast food, eating out is pretty expensive. But dang it, What-A-Burger...we love you!

MudPuppy

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2020, 06:00:45 PM »
My wife and I disagree.  She thinks it's $400, I think it's $300 per month for 2 people.  I thought we were doing well until I read this thread.  We make most of our meals at home, out of cheap ingredients (potatoes, rice, pasta, flour, eggs) but I eat a lot.  I think the meat and fresh fruit and vegetables are the expensive part. 

People who spend way less: What kind of food do you usually eat/serve to family?  Where do you buy it and how much do you make yourself?   

We make a lot of starch (rice, potato, etc) and dried legumes and tend to choose meat and cheeses as a flavoring rather than a main attraction. We do supplement our vegetable intake with our garden but I also splurge in other ways. Here's an example menu for this week:

Breakfasts: banana and coffee with a scoop of chocolate protein powder for spouse, black coffee and 8-10oz of plain kefir for me

Lunches and Dinners: Kale and potato soup with crispy chorizo, creamy swiss chard and white bean pasta bake, or kale and sausage frittata we embrace leftovers and dont try to just cook for two)

Snacks: bananas and cashews for me, PB and saltines or cherry tomatoes for spouse


Next weeks' breakfasts and snack will be similar, but the lunches and dinners will be vegetarian paella, lentil loaf and roasted broccoli wiht baked potatos, and italian "wonderpot" pasta

FIPurpose

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2020, 06:11:29 PM »
@FIPurpose  We are on the same page :)

Glad I'm not the only one! I think we're in the minority for this forum. I think there's an ERE mentality on this forum especially when it comes to food.

But what is asked less is, "is the food we choose so cheap that it is actually robbing from the end of our life?" Put another way: "Are we including all externalities when we consider the quality of our food?" We have very good data on what we can expect from market returns and 30-year withdraw periods, but what would a Monte Carlo look like for certain behavior choices? We don't have that data, or at least I haven't seen anyone compile it to display it in this way. I'm willing to bet that a lifetime of more organic vegetables, organic and pasture-raised meats, dairy, and eggs would lead to at least an average +10 years. And I'm willing to bet those years would be with higher quality health too.

For something that most mustachians could easily afford to do with only an additional 1-2 years (or heck, just spend your hobby money on better food) of work in order to keep an additional 8-10 seems like something that deserves more discussion here.

OtherJen

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2020, 06:12:28 PM »
We spend US$500–600 per month for two adults, a cat, and two rabbits. That includes household supplies/toiletries, alcohol, and pet supplies because I don't care enough to break down the receipts further. We all eat very well and rarely visit restaurants.

MudPuppy

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2020, 06:13:13 PM »
I feel confident that my nutritional choices are healthful.

Zikoris

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2020, 06:31:52 PM »
@FIPurpose  We are on the same page :)

Glad I'm not the only one! I think we're in the minority for this forum. I think there's an ERE mentality on this forum especially when it comes to food.

But what is asked less is, "is the food we choose so cheap that it is actually robbing from the end of our life?" Put another way: "Are we including all externalities when we consider the quality of our food?" We have very good data on what we can expect from market returns and 30-year withdraw periods, but what would a Monte Carlo look like for certain behavior choices? We don't have that data, or at least I haven't seen anyone compile it to display it in this way. I'm willing to bet that a lifetime of more organic vegetables, organic and pasture-raised meats, dairy, and eggs would lead to at least an average +10 years. And I'm willing to bet those years would be with higher quality health too.

For something that most mustachians could easily afford to do with only an additional 1-2 years (or heck, just spend your hobby money on better food) of work in order to keep an additional 8-10 seems like something that deserves more discussion here.

Ditching the animal products altogether seems to lead to similar increases in life expectancy, without requiring you to slog through an extra 1-2 years of working (in addition to better health in general). As a bonus, nobody ever got plague from carrots, unlike our current bat-themed pandemic.

Melisande

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2020, 06:48:16 PM »
Actually, groceries is one of the few areas where we do not economize. Our priorities are a healthy,  tasty and varied diet, even if it is a little pricey.  So, our grocery bill is about $700/ month for the two of us, but we typically do not go out to eat, even before our lockdown, so that is it when it comes to food. I make everything from scratch including all our bread and baked goods, pizza, salad dressings, sauces, etc.  I have no idea if these saves us money, but it is healthier.

Our regular big ticket items: 1) Sea scallops (which my husband adores): $32 for 24 oz. We get two meals out of that. 2) Pistachios — $15 for a medium-sized bag. 3) Fresh berries every day for breakfast 4) Other seafood, including shrimp, lobster, salmon, cod, etc. 5) Saffron. I don’t use saffron every week, but maybe once a month or so. Still it is expensive to replace. Also, just lots and lots of various fresh fruits and vegetables.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2020, 07:17:38 PM »
We used to be at about $300 per month for two adults and a preshooler plus about $80 a month on cafeteria meals for my husband at work (ugh).  In quarantine times we're closer to $400 at the store and $40 at work.  Those numbers include all household goods and food and litter for one cat.  There's also a good bit of snacks and stuff I'd cut if it was just me.
 

FIPurpose

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2020, 07:18:50 PM »
@FIPurpose  We are on the same page :)

Glad I'm not the only one! I think we're in the minority for this forum. I think there's an ERE mentality on this forum especially when it comes to food.

But what is asked less is, "is the food we choose so cheap that it is actually robbing from the end of our life?" Put another way: "Are we including all externalities when we consider the quality of our food?" We have very good data on what we can expect from market returns and 30-year withdraw periods, but what would a Monte Carlo look like for certain behavior choices? We don't have that data, or at least I haven't seen anyone compile it to display it in this way. I'm willing to bet that a lifetime of more organic vegetables, organic and pasture-raised meats, dairy, and eggs would lead to at least an average +10 years. And I'm willing to bet those years would be with higher quality health too.

For something that most mustachians could easily afford to do with only an additional 1-2 years (or heck, just spend your hobby money on better food) of work in order to keep an additional 8-10 seems like something that deserves more discussion here.

Ditching the animal products altogether seems to lead to similar increases in life expectancy, without requiring you to slog through an extra 1-2 years of working (in addition to better health in general). As a bonus, nobody ever got plague from carrots, unlike our current bat-themed pandemic.

I don't think you intentionally meant to do this, but you're comparing all meat eating to Wuhan meat markets? No where did I say anything like that.

Even if you're going to be vegan you likely would end up supplementing with vitamins. If we're going to solve the climate crisis, then we'll need to move our agriculture to Silvo-pasturing and other such strategies that necessarily involve the use of animals restoring the land that we use for raising crops. This means even if you are vegan personally, the sale of properly-raised meat will still be a necessary ingredient in correcting our current agricultural problems.

Beyond that, meat is nutrient dense and it is easier to eat a balanced diet with healthy amounts of fish or pasture raised protein. Considering that most vegans still have to supplement with vitamins, and many I know end up eating far more grains than is optimal for longevity, I'm not sure that veganism is a plausible alternative for most people. More vegetables and more meat-free meals anyone can do, but ditching completely is a much steeper hill.

lazycow

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2020, 07:22:22 PM »
Family of 2 adults, 2 late teens, 2 dogs and flock of chooks.
In Australian dollars we spend around $900 ($585 USD) on groceries including animal food, toiletries, cleaning supplies. We buy fish from the fishmonger, meat from our local butcher, have 40 fruit trees, grow some veges, bake bread, cakes, pizzas and shop at Aldi and IGA. Cook amost all meals at home. I am happy with this amount as I have tried decreasing it but it wasn't worth the hassle, and we can afford it (no mortgage!) Food is generally more expensive in Australia too, so I have stopped beating myself up over grocery shopping, though I used to feel terribly guilty and non-frugal.

Cranky

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2020, 07:37:00 PM »
Also you can get lots of diseases from eating plants. Even flour comes with a warning label now! LOL

Zikoris

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2020, 07:50:38 PM »

I don't think you intentionally meant to do this, but you're comparing all meat eating to Wuhan meat markets? No where did I say anything like that.

Even if you're going to be vegan you likely would end up supplementing with vitamins. If we're going to solve the climate crisis, then we'll need to move our agriculture to Silvo-pasturing and other such strategies that necessarily involve the use of animals restoring the land that we use for raising crops. This means even if you are vegan personally, the sale of properly-raised meat will still be a necessary ingredient in correcting our current agricultural problems.

Beyond that, meat is nutrient dense and it is easier to eat a balanced diet with healthy amounts of fish or pasture raised protein. Considering that most vegans still have to supplement with vitamins, and many I know end up eating far more grains than is optimal for longevity, I'm not sure that veganism is a plausible alternative for most people. More vegetables and more meat-free meals anyone can do, but ditching completely is a much steeper hill.

I don't think North American meat production is nearly as disease-ridden as some of the wet markets of the world, but processing plants here sure seem to be turning into corona-infested nightmares right now judging by the massive numbers of cases among workers, leading to a ton of shutdowns. I think a lot of people are pretty horrified about the current situation and cutting back on meat in response - I don't blame them one bit.

But that's really besides the point - I was really just poking fun at the fact that you suggested working 1-2 years longer to possibly live longer by spending a lot more on expensive meat, whereas a person could just as easily work LESS time by cutting the animal products (saving a lot of money), which definitely has been shown to increase lifespan and improve a lot of health outcomes (vegetarians have less cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc). Or a person could even just dramatically reduce animal products for most of the same benefits.

clarkfan1979

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2020, 08:02:03 PM »
When I was single grad student, I spent about $250/month and I ate pretty good. I wasn't buying organic, but I wasn't focusing on the real cheap items like rice, beans and ramen. I would occasionally eat rice and beans, but it was paired with good meats for mexican dishes.

After I got married, our grocery budget swelled to $700/month. My wife eats about 25%-50% less than me, but her preferences are 200% - 400% more expensive than mine.

After having a kid and less income, we were able to reduce our grocery budget to $600/month with the addition of a 3 year old.

jps

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2020, 08:08:31 PM »
Two adults for $400. We hardly look at price when we buy things, but we also buy almost exclusively ingredients (as opposed to prepared food). We'll buy the brands that we know and enjoy for their quality, and some items we intentionally choose the most expensive item because quality is important ($6/doz eggs from a few miles away at our neighborhood grocery).

PoutineLover

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2020, 08:43:15 PM »
When I was tracking it ended up being about 400/month for two adults. Might be a little more now with the pandemic. We eat a varied diet with lots of fresh, real foods and don't eat out often. I'll stock up when I see good prices, but I won't go to different stores to find specific things on sale. Pretty happy with the way we eat and I think it's pretty healthy. Can't see myself cutting back significantly without making serious changes to what or how we eat and prepare meals, but could probably optimize a few things to save a bit, not sure if it would be worth the effort and time.

FIPurpose

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2020, 09:57:05 PM »

I don't think you intentionally meant to do this, but you're comparing all meat eating to Wuhan meat markets? No where did I say anything like that.

Even if you're going to be vegan you likely would end up supplementing with vitamins. If we're going to solve the climate crisis, then we'll need to move our agriculture to Silvo-pasturing and other such strategies that necessarily involve the use of animals restoring the land that we use for raising crops. This means even if you are vegan personally, the sale of properly-raised meat will still be a necessary ingredient in correcting our current agricultural problems.

Beyond that, meat is nutrient dense and it is easier to eat a balanced diet with healthy amounts of fish or pasture raised protein. Considering that most vegans still have to supplement with vitamins, and many I know end up eating far more grains than is optimal for longevity, I'm not sure that veganism is a plausible alternative for most people. More vegetables and more meat-free meals anyone can do, but ditching completely is a much steeper hill.

I don't think North American meat production is nearly as disease-ridden as some of the wet markets of the world, but processing plants here sure seem to be turning into corona-infested nightmares right now judging by the massive numbers of cases among workers, leading to a ton of shutdowns. I think a lot of people are pretty horrified about the current situation and cutting back on meat in response - I don't blame them one bit.

But that's really besides the point - I was really just poking fun at the fact that you suggested working 1-2 years longer to possibly live longer by spending a lot more on expensive meat, whereas a person could just as easily work LESS time by cutting the animal products (saving a lot of money), which definitely has been shown to increase lifespan and improve a lot of health outcomes (vegetarians have less cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc). Or a person could even just dramatically reduce animal products for most of the same benefits.

Well I didn't think through the number completely, but if you're almost at FIRE around 1000K portfolio, an additional 1K of grocery spending would only take about 3-4 months of market returns on average to hit 1024K, or probably 6 months worth of straight savings for most people on this board. So 1-2 years is a big overestimation on my part.

I think it's also important to fast at least once a year. I try to work in a 4-7 day fast at least once a year, if not 2-3 times per year.

From Dr. Hyman's book Food: What the Heck Should I Eat

Quote
The vegan diet, for example, ideally incorporates plenty of whole, plant-based foods. As a result, vegans get lots of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber, and healthy fats with none of the baggage that comes with feedlot meat. They're also making the world a more humane place for the creatures that are treated cruelly by industrial farms, along with reducing their carbon footprint. But even a perfect vegan diet won't provide enough DHA and EPA, which are important omega-3 fatty acids. Neither will it provide enough zinc, copper, or vitamin D. Vegans are also unlikely to be getting the amount of quality proteins and essential amino acids they require, especially as they age. It's possible to find sufficient amounts in non-animal sources, but it is incredibly challenging. But they're definitely not getting B12 because it only comes from animal foods.

So no, I don't think veganism is nearly as easy as people make it out to be. And you need about $100-200 of supplements each year just to cover the lack of certain nutrients. I also never suggested buying meat from giant NA processing plants. So I don't know why that's what you brought up. If I had my choice, I would say we should all be buying from independent butchers that source from local sustainably raised farmers. But buying from smaller co-ops also removes most of the nasty that is the meat industry.

Zikoris

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2020, 11:08:52 PM »

So no, I don't think veganism is nearly as easy as people make it out to be. And you need about $100-200 of supplements each year just to cover the lack of certain nutrients. I also never suggested buying meat from giant NA processing plants. So I don't know why that's what you brought up. If I had my choice, I would say we should all be buying from independent butchers that source from local sustainably raised farmers. But buying from smaller co-ops also removes most of the nasty that is the meat industry.

Weird, I've been a healthy vegan for 21 years and spent approximately $0 on supplements in that time, and also never had any difficulty at all, even as a 12 year old with no internet, or a 16 year old living in a remote fly-in community in the far north of Canada.

Also, do you realize that if the only animal products available were local and sustainably raised, that basically everyone would actually have to be vegan regardless? That's another thing I find pretty amusing - the only difference between the diets proposed by people like you and people like me are between a small percentage of very rich people at the top. Both scenarios have at least like 90% of people vegan or almost vegan. So you should be aware that the system you're suggesting still involves the vast majority of people consuming zero or almost zero animal products, because the amount you can actually produce using those methods is so low. So if you really have concerns about a vegan diet, you should probably be aware that you're proposing a system that would basically impose veganism on the vast majority of people.

I personally think the only real future for animal products is in some sort of lab-grown form, because it would basically be the only way to both get a large amount of production and also not have the ethical or environmental impacts that go along with large-scale farming.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2020, 02:14:36 AM »
I spend $400 on groceries per month just for myself. That might sound like a lot but keep in mind I live in a country where the minimum wage is $20/hour. Our cost of living is just higher.

yakamashii

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2020, 02:34:29 AM »
My wife and I spend around $700/month on food, and I spent $400/month when I was single. Good food is quite expensive in Japan, but we're happy with these figures because they include all the high-quality fruit we want (probably $150-$200/month on designer fruit, some of which is even on sale for small nicks/odd shapes). Bulk savings are also pretty crappy here; the main reason it's not $800 for the two of us is that I ate meat with almost every meal when single, and we hardly ever have it at all now (wife doesn't eat meat).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 02:49:06 AM by yakamashii »

Cranky

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2020, 04:49:04 AM »
I spend $400 on groceries per month just for myself. That might sound like a lot but keep in mind I live in a country where the minimum wage is $20/hour. Our cost of living is just higher.

Also, the Australian Dollar currently equals .64 US Dollars - the have the same name but of course are different currencies.

Catica

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2020, 04:59:50 AM »
My wife and I spend around $700/month on food, and I spent $400/month when I was single. Good food is quite expensive in Japan, but we're happy with these figures because they include all the high-quality fruit we want (probably $150-$200/month on designer fruit, some of which is even on sale for small nicks/odd shapes). Bulk savings are also pretty crappy here; the main reason it's not $800 for the two of us is that I ate meat with almost every meal when single, and we hardly ever have it at all now (wife doesn't eat meat).
I know it's fun to eat designer fruit but I never investigated the actual nutritional value of a particular designer fruit in comparison to it's non-designer equivalent. Would be interesting to know whether it's worth paying for the fun factor if there is no nutritional benefit.

MayDay

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2020, 05:08:36 AM »
4 adult appetites here (2 are tweens who eat like adults, soon to be teens who eat more than adults!). We are vegetarians.

When we have a SAHP who can shop sales, go to multiple stores, etc and do a big garden, as well as cook everything from scratch, we are around 500/month.

With two working parents we are around 800.

Currently between stocking up, shopping at one more expensive store, and shortages, we are at 1000.


mizzourah2006

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2020, 07:39:35 AM »
Our average over the past 6 months has been about $470 for 2 adults and a 4 and a 2 year old. We also don't eat out much, spend an average of about $100-$120/month eating out. This includes everything you'd get at a grocery store outside of alcohol. I put that into a separate entertainment budget just because I like to keep an eye on that specifically as we often frequent local breweries and do beer tastings at friends.

jim555

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2020, 08:46:11 AM »
Average over the last 12 months $177 a month, single guy.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2020, 09:09:21 AM »
$350-600 for 2 adults, only including groceries (no booze or other stuff). Higher-end now since harder to shop for sales and eating more at home.

We eat a ton of veggies and meat and I try to avoid pasta and rarely eat beans/rice. Personal choice but I think it's healthier though trying to limit my meat consumption which i really high.

We probably could do $250-300 a month but realized it led to us running out of foods, getting sick of it or eating what I consider to be unhealthy. It's been kind of crazy so maybe might try to get into a better routine and minimize waste/meat consumption.

1 day a week of not having enough food 'forcing' me to get lunch at work is an additional $60. Rather over buy and have healthy food ready then give my excuse to eat unhealthy and spend a ton at lunch.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2020, 09:31:43 AM »
Including toiletries and some household products like diapers, paper towels, and toilet paper we're at around $1,400 for a family of 8 (2 adults, 6 kids). My wife has to be gluten free so pretty much all baking is done with GF flour and most cooking is GF. Only exception is regular bread or crackers for the rest of us and some GF bread or crackers for her.

If you were to back out the non-food items I'd estimate we're probably around $1,200 a month, so $150 per person.

I'd say we have a fairly normal diet with meat every day, very few frozen or pre-made meals, mostly cooking from scratch. With six kids though there are a fair number of snacks and paying more for time, i.e. buying a bag of shredded cheese or slices of cheese to save a few minutes for a dollar.

mm1970

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Re: How much do you spend on groceries?
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2020, 10:32:54 AM »
Family of four, two teenage boys. In non-COVID times, adults ate breakfast & lunch at work during the work week, and kids played 15+ hours of sports/week. Our grocery budget was $625/month.

In COVID time, all meals at home, but less sports for the teen. Food isn't on sale, prices are up & we aren't buying the cheapest things (buying what's available) & aren't going to the cheapest stores (not great social distancing options). We also stocked up quite a bit in March/April. Spending is up to around $1k/month. It's not normal for us, and I wouldn't be jazzed about it in the long term, but it is what it is.
Similar.

2019, we averaged $168/week, with both kids getting free lunch at school (because everyone did at their schools), but no free lunch for parents (we don't work in the Bay Area, ha!)

Post-COVID, everyone eating at home all the time, my teenager has grown more than an inch in 5 weeks.  (No sports, though.) and the 7 yo is growing too.  So far our weekly average is $200 / week for this year, but if you only include Post-COVID, it's $225.  We are trying to shop only every 2 weeks, and we are increasing the amount we get from our bi-weekly produce delivery.

My 7yo got one free lunch at the school, because we had to pick up more school work that day.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!