How many live paycheck to paycheck?

[lightmyfire]

One thing that surprised me was when I was living in a relatively poor area the amount of people who just don't have banks.  I went to a Wal-Mart and the line for their "Financial Services" was out the door.  People paying $3.25 to get their checks cashed.

I just didn't understand it and told my Mom (works at a Credit Union) about it and she said it's likely that the majority of those people are on a blacklist because they have bounced so many checks and owe banks money and can't open an account until they pay back those debts.

My dad said he had a check bounce once from a client and that it caused a check of his to bounce and that this caused him to get on a blacklist and that he couldn't open an account at another bank, even though he didn't owe anything to anyone. I never know if his stories are quite true, but that's what he said happened.

This is one thing I don't understand about the Dave Ramsey No CC card crowd.  One person I ran into on reddit was claiming that my CC was playing with snakes and eventually I'll get bit, but he uses debit cards and checks that have the potential to bounce and overdraw.  I see it as my CC consolidates it all into one good auto-pay and I only need to check once to see if the money is there. (Which it always is because I am scared of this stuff and keep a $5k buffer)  As for your story, I doubt it was a single bounced check is going to get him blacklisted, seems more just like victim mentality.  Here's the real reason, but I can blame it on this instead so I'll do that.

Right! To me, having a credit card that one pays off responsibly every month and uses to accumulate rewards as well as improve credit rating makes so much more sense than relying on the "snakes" lurking in the checking accounts of those who live paycheck to paycheck.  I think it's patronizing to tell people they can't handle paying off a credit card each month.  How hard is it? 

[midweststache]

Right! To me, having a credit card that one pays off responsibly every month and uses to accumulate rewards as well as improve credit rating makes so much more sense than relying on the "snakes" lurking in the checking accounts of those who live paycheck to paycheck.  I think it's patronizing to tell people they can't handle paying off a credit card each month.  How hard is it?

For some, really hard. If a person has spending problems with CCs, I see no issue going cold turkey to get the habit under control. DR is good for people who need that kind of kick in the ass. His perspective is definitely personal finance for noobs.

However, to make that a blanket statement for everyone is silly, particularly given the uses you list above. The second I can't pay off my credit card in full (read: when hell freezes over) is when I cut them all up and switch to a cash/debit-only system.

[riverffashion]

It wouldn't matter to me if my paycheck stopped for a few weeks , even a few months, but I think that is very very rare.  Even among people with high incomes- they generally have bills that get paid; need to make a mortgage payment, a car payment, a student loan payment, etc. Maybe they put some money aside, but not enough that they could skip a check entirely.

Even on this forum there are some people who live artificially paycheck to paycheck because things get auto-deposited into various investments. Not having the paycheck would mean having to scramble to stop all those deposits.  (Though I hope those people have some emergency fund it could pull from.)

Wouldn't bother me at all . I get paid as often as I want ( some like a daily check! ) . I wait up to two weeks sometimes and even then its only because the numbers get so high.
I know quite a few people who are broke well before payday though . I've given up talking Mustachianism to people, unless they express interest in what I'm doing . and even then, none of these people has actually followed any of the advice.. Ehh.. We're happy indeed to get it. Grateful to hav discovered this path :)

[KBecks2]

One thing that surprised me was when I was living in a relatively poor area the amount of people who just don't have banks.  I went to a Wal-Mart and the line for their "Financial Services" was out the door.  People paying $3.25 to get their checks cashed.

I just didn't understand it and told my Mom (works at a Credit Union) about it and she said it's likely that the majority of those people are on a blacklist because they have bounced so many checks and owe banks money and can't open an account until they pay back those debts.

One bounced check is no big deal, and they probably don't care if you are a regular check bouncer as long as you have the money to pay the high fees associated with that.  So they love me, if I bounce one by accident, because I have thousands in savings.  No worries.  But if you have no money and no money and no money, you're no good to the bank.
My dad said he had a check bounce once from a client and that it caused a check of his to bounce and that this caused him to get on a blacklist and that he couldn't open an account at another bank, even though he didn't owe anything to anyone. I never know if his stories are quite true, but that's what he said happened.

This is one thing I don't understand about the Dave Ramsey No CC card crowd.  One person I ran into on reddit was claiming that my CC was playing with snakes and eventually I'll get bit, but he uses debit cards and checks that have the potential to bounce and overdraw.  I see it as my CC consolidates it all into one good auto-pay and I only need to check once to see if the money is there. (Which it always is because I am scared of this stuff and keep a $5k buffer)  As for your story, I doubt it was a single bounced check is going to get him blacklisted, seems more just like victim mentality.  Here's the real reason, but I can blame it on this instead so I'll do that.

[Digital Dogma]

My boss knows I dont live paycheck to paycheck and at this point is probably convinced ill be a millionaire  (hes correct), IMO this levels the playing field somewhat because he knows his leverage on me is likely far less than on most other employees who are within 1-3 years of retirement. I never have called him on it (ie tell him to FU) but im sure it gives me backup to be more confident (through FI) when disagreements crop up.

I dont even know when payroll day is, I check my bank account once a month or so and pull any extra thousands out to my vanguard money market account after rent and cards and utilities have been paid.

[johnny847]

My boss knows I dont live paycheck to paycheck and at this point is probably convinced ill be a millionaire  (hes correct), IMO this levels the playing field somewhat because he knows his leverage on me is likely far less than on most other employees who are within 1-3 years of retirement. I never have called him on it (ie tell him to FU) but im sure it gives me backup to be more confident (through FI) when disagreements crop up.

I dont even know when payroll day is, I check my bank account once a month or so and pull any extra thousands out to my vanguard money market account after rent and cards and utilities have been paid.

Just make sure that when you check your bank account that you were paid the amount due. One time I worked 101.5 hours in a biweekly pay period (so 21.5 hours were OT at 1.5x rate) but for some reason the system paid me for 101.5 hours at the regular rate. If I hadn't checked my paystubs, I would have given up $279.50 (pre-tax)!

[Digital Dogma]

Yea we get paid via ADP and I check my stubs using ipay, I have faith that the number on the stub got sent to my account.
dont usually keep track of the date but Im generally up on it when I know I put in OT that week.

[Meggslynn]

I am a payroll supervisor for a large oil and gas company. I see this all.the.time. My most recent case was a guy who routinely clears about $5000-6000 every two weeks. His pay was short about $700. He was freaking out that he wouldn't be able to make his truck payment. One of my payroll coordinators who was taking the calls was having a hard time feeling bad for him as she takes $1400 home every two weeks and would of been fine if her check was short that much. Unfortunately for him our policy is we do not issue emergency cheques unless it is a full weeks worth of time or more so he had to wait until the next pay.

[johnny847]

I am a payroll supervisor for a large oil and gas company. I see this all.the.time. My most recent case was a guy who routinely clears about $5000-6000 every two weeks. His pay was short about $700. He was freaking out that he wouldn't be able to make his truck payment. One of my payroll coordinators who was taking the calls was having a hard time feeling bad for him as she takes $1400 home every two weeks and would of been fine if her check was short that much. Unfortunately for him our policy is we do not issue emergency cheques unless it is a full weeks worth of time or more so he had to wait until the next pay.

I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like this should be illegal. Shouldn't an employer be obligated to pay employees on time? And if a mistake has been made, in a timely manner? Next pay day doesn't seem like "in a timely manner" to me.

[Lyssa]

I am a payroll supervisor for a large oil and gas company. I see this all.the.time. My most recent case was a guy who routinely clears about $5000-6000 every two weeks. His pay was short about $700. He was freaking out that he wouldn't be able to make his truck payment. One of my payroll coordinators who was taking the calls was having a hard time feeling bad for him as she takes $1400 home every two weeks and would of been fine if her check was short that much. Unfortunately for him our policy is we do not issue emergency cheques unless it is a full weeks worth of time or more so he had to wait until the next pay.

I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like this should be illegal. Shouldn't an employer be obligated to pay employees on time? And if a mistake has been made, in a timely manner? Next pay day doesn't seem like "in a timely manner" to me.

Would be illegal around here. Is this guy a fool? Yep, without a doubt. Is his employer entitled to not pay him what's due? Not in my book.

[coppertop]

I prepare payroll for a law firm and I can tell you that if any of the attorneys found his pay was short, I'd be told to cut him a check immediately. 

One time their checks were a day late and several of them were in panic mode.  How were they to pay their mortgages?  Their families were going to starve!  We had a power outage for a week after Hurricane Sandy.  The bookkeeper sat by one window adding up the days' receipts on a solar calculator; while I sat by another window and hand-wrote paychecks so the attorneys would be paid on time.

[iamlittlehedgehog]

I prepare payroll for a law firm and I can tell you that if any of the attorneys found his pay was short, I'd be told to cut him a check immediately. 

One time their checks were a day late and several of them were in panic mode.  How were they to pay their mortgages?  Their families were going to starve!  We had a power outage for a week after Hurricane Sandy.  The bookkeeper sat by one window adding up the days' receipts on a solar calculator; while I sat by another window and hand-wrote paychecks so the attorneys would be paid on time.

I work in law firms too - this is the truth. The firm can go to hell in a hand basket but it's okay as long as the attorneys get paid!

We don't live paycheck to paycheck despite a low combined income. In fact you all might enjoy a funny story that happened yesterday which finally gave us the "holy shit, we'll be okay moment"
-Our mortgage (970.83) is auto payed every month, we just had to adjust it 30 cents because the company was bought out and there was a slight increase (I don't handle our mortgage so I'm not clear on the details). Well - mortgage time last week. We noticed on Friday that our account was really low for us...as in OMG low. But we couldn't figure out why, we are extremely conservative with our spending. I did our expense report this Sunday and found out that we were auto billed twice - once for the new mortgage amount (970.83) and once for our old mortgage amount (970.53) because DH forgot to delete the old mortgage amount from our auto bill pay list.
TL;DR - we payed our mortgage twice in a week and still survived

[chippy]

So they forgot my stipend check (direct deposit) last month. They rolled it into my next check. This annoyed me since I had to pay my rent from a different account than my normal one. PITA. There went 5 minutes of my life.

Next time (sadly there will be a next time) I'll just tell HR that I'm living paycheck to paycheck. That'll only take 1 minute. And my automated life can go on!

[Lis]

Like a bunch of people said, I live 'paycheck to paycheck' in the sense that all my savings and whatnot is automated. If I knew I wasn't going to be paid on time, I could adjust and be fine for a few months. If it came out of no where, I'd 'scramble' canceling the autopayments and whatnot. And I would get very grumpy. I have a system, and I don't like my system disturbed :)

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

[teen persuasion]

Like a bunch of people said, I live 'paycheck to paycheck' in the sense that all my savings and whatnot is automated. If I knew I wasn't going to be paid on time, I could adjust and be fine for a few months. If it came out of no where, I'd 'scramble' canceling the autopayments and whatnot. And I would get very grumpy. I have a system, and I don't like my system disturbed :)

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

Build up in checking, built in buffer, EF in savings, and depending on time of year - tax refunds.  Oh, and unreimbursed HSA expenses - I could draw >$6k from the HSA for things I've paid OOP.

Some of our biggest annual bills are lumpy, while the regular ones are small, and previously DH's pay was also lumpy (no pay for 10 weeks of summer), so I let the checking balance float up and down over the course of a year, rather than spend it down immediately.  There's more than 7 months average spending currently in there just waiting, but school tax bill + oil prebuy + car insurance are approaching.

[Abe]

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

For us, it would come from non-retirement investment accounts. Mostly the interest only.

[chesebert]

I work in a law firm and I would freak out if my check is not on time with the correct amount. I have chased payroll on more than one occasion due to incorrect amount/delayed payment. Payroll can think whatever they want, but there is no way I am going to give the firm an interest-free loan. I generally have every dollar planned in advance of the anticipated payroll amount and any timing/amount mismatch could result in my wasting a lot of time redoing my investment allocations.

[mustachepungoeshere]

We are one of the few on here still paying off debt (in our case it is HECS - Australian government university loans), so all money left after expenses is being thrown towards that.

By the traditional definition, no, we're not living paycheck to paycheck, but I'm eager to be paid promptly so I can allocate money where it's needed.

There have been a few payrolls bumps at my work, and when I query them I am worried about appearing broke, but I know the truth. It's just because I monitor our accounts closely and I know what should be coming and going and when.

[Villanelle]

Like a bunch of people said, I live 'paycheck to paycheck' in the sense that all my savings and whatnot is automated. If I knew I wasn't going to be paid on time, I could adjust and be fine for a few months. If it came out of no where, I'd 'scramble' canceling the autopayments and whatnot. And I would get very grumpy. I have a system, and I don't like my system disturbed :)

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

For me it would be a combination of things.  The "slush money" we keep in the accounts for ease (which is sort of our EF), cancelation of auto investments (2 Roth IRAs and TSP), and if necessary pulling money from our HELOC.  Actually, if it were just a delayed check and I was certain it would be resolved in a month or so, I'd probably go to the HELOC first if I couldn't get us through it by simply delaying purchases and economizing for the month.  It would cost me a few pennies in interest (2.6% interest) and would be much easier than canceling an auto payment, and I wouldn't lose out on that month of growth in the market.  If it were a longer term situation (like a pay cut for 6-8 months, perhaps), then I'd "gain" a thousand dollars+ by stopping the investments until things resolved themselves and not making the monthly principal payment (not required) on our HELOC balance.    Pulling money that has already been invested would be a last resort and only for extended crisis situations, but first it would be the non-retirement accounts and then once those were tapped, the retirement accounts. 

[Villanelle]

Like a bunch of people said, I live 'paycheck to paycheck' in the sense that all my savings and whatnot is automated. If I knew I wasn't going to be paid on time, I could adjust and be fine for a few months. If it came out of no where, I'd 'scramble' canceling the autopayments and whatnot. And I would get very grumpy. I have a system, and I don't like my system disturbed :)

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

For me it would be a combination of things.  The "slush money" we keep in the accounts for ease (which is sort of our EF), cancelation of auto investments (2 Roth IRAs and TSP), and if necessary pulling money from our HELOC.  Actually, if it were just a delayed check and I was certain it would be resolved in a month or so, I'd probably go to the HELOC first if I couldn't get us through it by simply delaying purchases and economizing for the month.  It would cost me a few pennies in interest (2.6% interest) and would be much easier than canceling an auto payment, and I wouldn't lose out on that month of growth in the market.  If it were a longer term situation (like a pay cut for 6-8 months, perhaps), then I'd "gain" a thousand dollars+ by stopping the investments until things resolved themselves and not making the monthly principal payment (not required) on our HELOC balance.    Pulling money that has already been invested would be a last resort and only for extended crisis situations, but first it would be the non-retirement accounts and then once those were tapped, the retirement accounts. 

[KCM5]

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

For us, it would come from non-retirement investment accounts. Mostly the interest only.

Seems to me like you could retire then!

[Miss Prim]

My husband has a small office cleaning business and his biggest client first decided to pay 30 days out from billing, then changed to 60 days out.  He had quite a bit built up in his business account that he didn't have a problem with paying his one employee for actually 90 days out, since he pays weekly.  But, I told him, how many businesses could afford to float basically a 60 day loan to a client? 

He makes good money on the account, but is always worried someone will come in and undercut him.  I told him that he shouldn't worry too much because anyone new would have to wait 90 days for their money too, although I guess that is where a line of credit with a bank comes in for businesses to make payroll. 

I never knew when payday was either, I had to ask around.  My check was automatically deposited and I could have probably lasted a few months before I would have noticed I wasn't paid!

                                                                                                    Miss Prim

[I'm a red panda]

But, I told him, how many businesses could afford to float basically a 60 day loan to a client? 

Net 60 (as well as Net 30 or even Net 90) is extremely common payment terms on contracts.

I hated net 90 when I was a freelancers, but it was like half of what I worked under. You just have to budget around it.  It was rare to get someone who paid net 30.

[Lyssa]

I work in a law firm and I would freak out if my check is not on time with the correct amount. I have chased payroll on more than one occasion due to incorrect amount/delayed payment. Payroll can think whatever they want, but there is no way I am going to give the firm an interest-free loan.

This. And if people observe firms bending over backwards to pay attorneys on time this probably tells all there is to know about the legality of a 'we'll pay you next month' policy. Probably some of the rioting attorneys have been really living paycheck to paycheck. But without a doubt some others just did not want to tell them 'you better pay me on time because I'm not giving you a free loan.' and opted for mortgages and starving kids instead. :-)

[CommonCents]

I prepare payroll for a law firm and I can tell you that if any of the attorneys found his pay was short, I'd be told to cut him a check immediately. 

One time their checks were a day late and several of them were in panic mode.  How were they to pay their mortgages?  Their families were going to starve!  We had a power outage for a week after Hurricane Sandy.  The bookkeeper sat by one window adding up the days' receipts on a solar calculator; while I sat by another window and hand-wrote paychecks so the attorneys would be paid on time.

I actually AM a lawyer!  Not all of us are banging down the door.
While I wouldn't be keen on a constant interest free loan, I also think that 2 weeks once isn't that big of a deal. 

So apparently there were 63 checks they ended up cutting last week.  I ran into the head of accounting in the elevator (who I've worked with on various projects) and she inquired if someone from her office had called me?  I told her yes, but that I was fine, didn't need anything and it'd save us both hassle.  She said, ok, good, I figured you would be.

I hear you all on timing investments.  I need to be better about that. 
I can afford not to have a check because DH believes we need a lot (6+ mo expenses) in cash for emergencies so we will always have buffer in our checking accounts.  At the moment though, we have an abnormal amount in cash because he's worried about the market crashing and didn't want to invest everything from the sale of his house (an embarrassingly long time ago) at once.  (Yes yes, I understand it's better to invest right away and I've gotten him to work it down.) 

[I'm a red panda]

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

Between our savings account and 3 checking accounts, we keep a year of living expenses in cash; more if we cut luxuries (like vacations, eating out, fabric, woodworking...).
We used to keep almost twice this in savings, but MMM has helped us see the light and we have moved more of it into investment accounts to get it to work for us.  Still, we are more comfortable with a good cash buffer.

[pachnik]

I have a system, and I don't like my system disturbed :)

+1   I don't have my savings automated but I put aside $ every other pay cheque.  I definitely have a system and would be grumpy if it was disturbed.  :)

[riverffashion]

Out of curiosity, those who said they could survive weeks/months/years without a paycheck, where is your money coming from? Are you talking about your e-fund? Or pulling money from 401k/other investment? Or...?

Between our savings account and 3 checking accounts, we keep a year of living expenses in cash; more if we cut luxuries (like vacations, eating out, fabric, woodworking...).
We used to keep almost twice this in savings, but MMM has helped us see the light and we have moved more of it into investment accounts to get it to work for us.  Still, we are more comfortable with a good cash buffer.

I am saving my cushion in a checking account ( am recently debtfree ) and hav saved half so far. So I hav enough in there to not be in need  for several months .

[Teddy25]

I once worked for a company that switched from paying us on the last day of a two-week pay period, to paying us two weeks in arrears the way most companies did back in the 90s. To make up for the resulting gap in pay, the company extended everyone an interest-free loan in the amount of their normal pay. The loan was payable when the employee eventually left the company. So essentially the company was trying to make the change completely transparent.

You should have seen the uproar this news caused. People seemed to think the company was trying to screw them somehow. They were only trying to fix a system that caused problems (how can you pay someone on the last day of a pay period when they haven't reported their hours yet, let alone time for payroll?) to a more normal system. They were trying to do this in a very nice way. People just didn't understand.

I worked for a company that did the same thing. A few years later I found myself in charge of doing the accounting for it, and boy was that a royal pain. That was back in ... 2007, I think. I'm sure some poor schmuck in that accounting department is still having to monitor that receivable from the like four employees who took the advance who haven't quit yet.

our company did the same thing this year. they went from paying last day of two weeks to 1 week in arrears. 

to avoid not paying people for 1 week. they just gave everyone an extra paid week. (nice F500 co)

[rocketpj]

I used to have a job that paid twice a year, with advances if I needed them before hand.  In that sense I lived check to check - I was young and it can be a challenge at any age to make a balance last 5-6 months.  It paid VERY well, so the inconvenience was worth it in many ways.

(I administered the advances so there was never an issue, but I hated drawing from future paychecks so I rarely did that)

[partgypsy]

I once had things set up too complicated and unnecessary. In addition to regular withholding for retirement, also had too much money taken out for Flexible health savings account (I based on someone's advice it was too much and lost some of the money), also had different automatic transfers for emergency fund and travel fund. We were getting low, so told hubby to use credit card for any purchases till I get paid. So, bounced a check, which caused a fee, which caused more refused transactions/fees. Almost $100 in fees. our electronic bank takes 3,4 days to transfer funds, so too late to avoid trainwreck. Same thing happens later that year(for lesser amount). Made me realize a) husband and I don't necessarily inform each other about every purchase, b) my husband STILL doesn't know the difference between a credit card and a debit card is (he thinks the bank debit card is a credit card, because it has a visa symbol on it).

So, I now keep an additional cushion in brick banking, allowing to overdraft from there.

But otherwise pretty close to paycheck to paycheck, because for the next 1-2 years will have increased expenses which will us up all our net pay, and previously because I don't like having a lot of money in my brick bank checking (gets no interest).

When I was dating my to be husband, he didn't have a checking account. He would just cash his checks and have the money around. So he did literally live paycheck to paycheck. There was times he would rummage around in his coin jar to buy a can of dogfood for his dog. Well, at least he wasn't in debt.

[coppertop]

I work in a law firm and I would freak out if my check is not on time with the correct amount. I have chased payroll on more than one occasion due to incorrect amount/delayed payment. Payroll can think whatever they want, but there is no way I am going to give the firm an interest-free loan.

This. And if people observe firms bending over backwards to pay attorneys on time this probably tells all there is to know about the legality of a 'we'll pay you next month' policy. Probably some of the rioting attorneys have been really living paycheck to paycheck. But without a doubt some others just did not want to tell them 'you better pay me on time because I'm not giving you a free loan.' and opted for mortgages and starving kids instead. :-)

For the record, I have never paid my attorneys late and I have been preparing payroll for four years now.  The one time it was late was when I first was promoted to this position and the evil witch who used to have my job was trying to make me look bad when she was "training" me, so she orchestrated things to make it look as if it were my fault ... and then she cackled with glee when it caused a minor uprising.  Management was not fooled.  Because the bookkeeper and I stayed here in the dark and cold in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, adding and writing in the light of windows to make sure they received paychecks on time, we got a small bonus.  Everyone else had gone home, but we soldiered on.  We know which side our bread is buttered.

[rocketpj]

I live off my day job, but if I was dependent on the clients in my side gig to keep money on the table it would be feast and famine.  One of them is never less than a month in arrears, and usually 2-3 months.  The other main client usually leaves it for at least a month.

I don't sweat it too much, but it does bug me that they are so casual about it.

[protostache]

I live off my day job, but if I was dependent on the clients in my side gig to keep money on the table it would be feast and famine.  One of them is never less than a month in arrears, and usually 2-3 months.  The other main client usually leaves it for at least a month.

I don't sweat it too much, but it does bug me that they are so casual about it.

This is one of the reasons why I pay myself an equal salary weekly out of the business accounts which have a substantial buffer (2-3 months). That way the family finances are insulated from any client funny business. Thankfully I don't have any clients like what you describe, but if I did we'd be ok.

[EricP]

I live off my day job, but if I was dependent on the clients in my side gig to keep money on the table it would be feast and famine.  One of them is never less than a month in arrears, and usually 2-3 months.  The other main client usually leaves it for at least a month.

I don't sweat it too much, but it does bug me that they are so casual about it.

Wow, they must have some great leverage over you and be an important client.  Otherwise, why are you choosing to let them get away with being 2-3 months in arrears?

Isn't this normal?  Net90?  Or does "in arrears" imply past the NetXX point?

[I'm a red panda]

I live off my day job, but if I was dependent on the clients in my side gig to keep money on the table it would be feast and famine.  One of them is never less than a month in arrears, and usually 2-3 months.  The other main client usually leaves it for at least a month.

I don't sweat it too much, but it does bug me that they are so casual about it.

Wow, they must have some great leverage over you and be an important client.  Otherwise, why are you choosing to let them get away with being 2-3 months in arrears?

Isn't this normal?  Net90?  Or does "in arrears" imply past the NetXX point?

I agree- net 90 is pretty normal in freelance work (though I certainly prefer clients who still pay net 30!)  Now, if they are paying 2-3 months AFTER that- that is not okay. 

[dragoncar]

I live off my day job, but if I was dependent on the clients in my side gig to keep money on the table it would be feast and famine.  One of them is never less than a month in arrears, and usually 2-3 months.  The other main client usually leaves it for at least a month.

I don't sweat it too much, but it does bug me that they are so casual about it.

Wow, they must have some great leverage over you and be an important client.  Otherwise, why are you choosing to let them get away with being 2-3 months in arrears?

Isn't this normal?  Net90?  Or does "in arrears" imply past the NetXX point?

I agree- net 90 is pretty normal in freelance work (though I certainly prefer clients who still pay net 30!)  Now, if they are paying 2-3 months AFTER that- that is not okay.

Arrears means late, so 2-3 months after whatever the agreed-upon time for payment.   Not sure if OP meant it that way

[FarmerPete]

I use YNAB, and I've been budgeting off last months paychecks since I started a year ago.  So I guess by definition, I could go at a month without even having to move money around at all.  I could probably go another 3-6 month by raiding some of my categories that I've kept in cash.

Most of my coworkers are living paycheck to paycheck.  I have one coworker who has his check setup so that within 2 hours of the deposit, it's gone.  Between him and his wife, they make over double my household salary.  I can't understand how they could live that way while making so much money...

[11ducks]

Reading this thread, I figured that I have 6 months bare bones expenses saved for the first time ever! Also have another months sick pay which would give me 2 more months. Woo!

[mpg350]

Never have...always been somebody that lives well below my means...it all started when I was working in HS
I was probably saving 75% or so of what I earned...because I worked my ass off in a grocery store stocking shelves making $5.75 a hour
back in the late 90s...so it was hard to spend money easily after working so hard to earn it.

So glad my parents made me work PT during HS.
 
 

[zephyr911]

I always thought of DR like AA. I have a lot of alcoholic relatives, so I'm familiar with it. In AA, you're told you have a disease called alcoholism and the solution is to abstain from alcohol for the rest of your life, because you can't handle it. That doesn't mean other people can't, though. I always though Dave Ramsey's target was people whose financial state was full of self inflicted gunshot wounds, people who probably shouldn't go near a credit card because they lack the ability to use one responsibly.

Dave Ramsey has a paid forum and 5 or 6 years ago I took a 30 day free trial. I got absolutely excoriated because I had decided we should max our Roths rather than pay off my $17k in student loan debt that year. My logic was that we would pay off the loans in a few years, tops, anyway, but I'd never get back those years of Roth contributions. So even if the interest on both cancelled each other out for the first few years, it would make sense to prioritize the IRAs. People absolutely freaked, told me I'd be in debt forever, was living way above my means, etc. I opted not to pay to join the forum. =D

Yes... like you, I avoid "debating" with people unswayed by math and logic. Dogmatism is a bitch.
On the flip side, there are people so googly-eyed over the "magic of compounding" that they invest while carrying high-interest balances, unaware that compounding works both ways, and even more so at higher rates.

[rocketpj]

In a sense we do live paycheck to paycheck, as most of our money is spoken for and automates away within a day or two of payday.

If we weren't to get paid I would know about it as I check the account every payday to see how much it is (it varies a lot).  Given the variability I tend to have a rough idea of my expected check, and it has been wrong a couple of times, so that is more incentive to stay on top of it.

If the check didn't go in I'd have to scramble to cover the mortgage (which comes out on payday along with all the other stuff) but it wouldn't be a big deal.

[use2betrix]

I'm being that pain in the ass "pay check to pay check seeming person" right now.

I have 6 months of living expenses in my checking account but it's the principle of the matter.

I have been with this agency for 2 months and they have messed up my check twice now. This time they were $500 short, which was less than %10 of the check, but apparently they need to be inconvenienced for their mistakes.

So, I told them I wanted it wired instead of waiting 2 weeks. I also told them to add $15 to make up for the wire fee. I got the $500 but didn't get $15 for the wire fee. I just emailed them again and told them to wife $30, $15 for the wire fee and $15 for the new wire fee.

I'm not trying to be a prick, but their incompetence is the reason I'm not cutting them any slack.

[CommonCents]

Doesn't the person wiring the money pay the wire fee?  Why would the recipient (you) be charged $15?

[Cathy]

There are many fees associated with wire transfers. In the US and Canada, banks frequently charge the recipient $10 to $30 to receive a wire transfer (depending on where it originates), and this is in addition to any other fees that might apply. In contexts where I have received payment via wire, I also require receipt fees to be included in the amount sent.

Note that wire is commonly confused with EFT and ACH, which are typically free for the recipient.

[brainfart]

LOL, what a third world country where people have to pay shitloads to send money from one bank account to another and get paid with a piece of paper which they have to cash or bring to their bank.

[Cathy]

LOL, what a third world country where people have to pay shitloads to send money from one bank account to another and get paid with a piece of paper which they have to cash or bring to their bank.

Funny stuff indeed, except wire transfers have lots of fees everywhere in the world. Wire transfers are not the same as EFT, ACH, and their international equivalents.

[CommonCents]

Weird.  My US bank (USAA) does not fees for incoming domestic wire transfers.

[use2betrix]

Weird.  My US bank (USAA) does not fees for incoming domestic wire transfers.

Actually, the link I just found states that U.S. bank charges $20, while my bank (Wells Fargo) only charges $15.

I think people here are confusing EFT's with wire transfers. I can send money to people in ways other than wire, for free all day long. I'm unsure what the reasoning of the wire cost is, but it's there.

[CommonCents]

Weird.  My US bank (USAA) does not fees for incoming domestic wire transfers.

Actually, the link I just found states that U.S. bank charges $20, while my bank (Wells Fargo) only charges $15.

I think people here are confusing EFT's with wire transfers. I can send money to people in ways other than wire, for free all day long. I'm unsure what the reasoning of the wire cost is, but it's there.

Nope. 

https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/banking_wire_transfer_instructions?akredirect=true 

Right hand side:
Wire Transfer Fees
Domestic Outgoing: $20
International Outgoing: $20
International Wire Service fee $25
Incoming: No charge See note 1 (which relates to foreign currency)