How many Feds here hanging on for MRA?

[Fomerly known as something]

As someone mentioned above somewhere, you can't get an ACA plan once you are eligible for Medicare.  FEHB is way better than Medicare.  I mean it's not worth working 10 yrs longer but if you're counting on ACA, you should factor in that you might spend 30 years on Medicare.  Think of how that affects your travel, as they generally don't cover you out of the country. They don't have family plans.  Each person pays their own premium.  They only cover 80% so you need a supplement plan. And they don't cover dental, hearing, or vision. Or you need an HMO plan which is restricted by area.  And the premium goes way up with your income too. 

Don't compare FEHB with ACA--compare it with Medicare since that's what you'll have the last third of your life.

Have to think they'll eventually make Medicare mandatory for retired feds just like they did with the postal retirees and the military retirees.

Maybe, however remember who else is covered by FEHB.  Congress.  So our chances of staying in FEHB are better than postal workers or the military.

No Congress isn’t anymore.  Remember as part of the ACA they get a subsidy (outside of income limits) to buy from the exchange.

Also there are more plans than BCBS, my GEHA plan “costs” me net less than $1000 a year since $1000 is passed through to my HSA.  Last year was the first time ever that I met my deductible with needing a 2nd mammogram.  Otherwise I’ve averaged about $300 a year out of pocket.

[Catbert]

You're right Formerly.  Oops, I forgotten that.  I wonder if they have a similar loophole they are Medicare eligible. 

[Fomerly known as something]

You're right Formerly.  Oops, I forgotten that.  I wonder if they have a similar loophole they are Medicare eligible.

Yes and no.  You can carry it as your FEHB after 65, but because of the rules on HSAs, the pass through goes to a HRA vs a HSA.  The difference is that while the HRA also rolls over, if you change lans or die, that money disappears like an FSA.

[tj]

You're right Formerly.  Oops, I forgotten that.  I wonder if they have a similar loophole they are Medicare eligible.

Yes and no.  You can carry it as your FEHB after 65, but because of the rules on HSAs, the pass through goes to a HRA vs a HSA.  The difference is that while the HRA also rolls over, if you change lans or die, that money disappears like an FSA.

It only goes to an HRA if you take medicare. If you choose fehb only and no medicare, you continue to get annual HSA pass through.

[DesertRatShorty]

I think I’ve found a way to hack the FERS retirement game to make $60K with a brief period of work. The math is based on my own numbers, and would vary for every individual. Maybe this should be it's own thread.

I am hoping to retire early (in the year I turn 55) and am looking into some possibilities for gaming the FERS system to take job for a very short time period at age 60 or 62, after leaving federal service at 55 (or 57).

In any scenario, I plan to postpone claiming my FERS pension until I can receive an unreduced amount, whether that is at age 60 or 62. Eligibility for health benefits is not a major motivator, as I have that covered through my spouse who is already a FERS retiree.

Here is how it works:

If I retire at 55 with 23 years service:
I am not eliglble for my full FERS pension until age 62. FERS pension amount: $18,800

If I retire at 57 with 25 years service:
I am eligible for my full FERS pension at age 60: FERS pension amount: $21,200. I am not eligible for the FERS supplement since I will not receive an immediate annuity, waiting until 6 to collect. (The increase is mostly from 2 extra years of service, little change to high 3.)

However—and this is where working a new job for a brief period of time has a large impact:

If I were to retire at 55 with 23 years service, but then return to work in a permanent federal job for a couple weeks at my 60th birthday:
I would be immediately eligible for my full pension amount of $18,800, but I would also be eligible for the FERS supplement for 2 years (estimated value $13,500/year) by retiring into an immediate unreduced annuity.

This would net me my pension 2 years earlier ($18,800 x 2) and 2 years of the FERS supplement ($13,500 x 2), total net value of $64,600. The $37,600 that I didn't spend on offsetting my FERS pension would throw off another $1500/yr at 4% too.

(If I were to retire at 57, and return at 60, my eligibility for full pension at 60 would not change, so I would only gain the FERS supplement, a lesser gain of about $27,000, but still a nice chunk of cash.)

Obviously this would not be ideal for the person who hired me to have me retire after 2 weeks on the job. That’s a consideration for sure. My agency has lots of entry level jobs with very high turnover that would be easy to get hired into, and turnover is part of the reality of staffing those positions. But the math is pretty simple—the rules would make that brief period of work worth nearly $65K, which is a return hard to pass up and maybe an example of hate the game, not the player. Am I missing anything here?

[tj]

I think I’ve found a way to hack the FERS retirement game to make $60K with a brief period of work. The math is based on my own numbers, and would vary for every individual. Maybe this should be it's own thread.

I am hoping to retire early (in the year I turn 55) and am looking into some possibilities for gaming the FERS system to take job for a very short time period at age 60 or 62, after leaving federal service at 55 (or 57).

In any scenario, I plan to postpone claiming my FERS pension until I can receive an unreduced amount, whether that is at age 60 or 62. Eligibility for health benefits is not a major motivator, as I have that covered through my spouse who is already a FERS retiree.

Here is how it works:

If I retire at 55 with 23 years service:
I am not eliglble for my full FERS pension until age 62. FERS pension amount: $18,800

If I retire at 57 with 25 years service:
I am eligible for my full FERS pension at age 60: FERS pension amount: $21,200. I am not eligible for the FERS supplement since I will not receive an immediate annuity, waiting until 6 to collect. (The increase is mostly from 2 extra years of service, little change to high 3.)

However—and this is where working a new job for a brief period of time has a large impact:

If I were to retire at 55 with 23 years service, but then return to work in a permanent federal job for a couple weeks at my 60th birthday:
I would be immediately eligible for my full pension amount of $18,800, but I would also be eligible for the FERS supplement for 2 years (estimated value $13,500/year) by retiring into an immediate unreduced annuity.

This would net me my pension 2 years earlier ($18,800 x 2) and 2 years of the FERS supplement ($13,500 x 2), total net value of $64,600. The $37,600 that I didn't spend on offsetting my FERS pension would throw off another $1500/yr at 4% too.

(If I were to retire at 57, and return at 60, my eligibility for full pension at 60 would not change, so I would only gain the FERS supplement, a lesser gain of about $27,000, but still a nice chunk of cash.)

Obviously this would not be ideal for the person who hired me to have me retire after 2 weeks on the job. That’s a consideration for sure. My agency has lots of entry level jobs with very high turnover that would be easy to get hired into, and turnover is part of the reality of staffing those positions. But the math is pretty simple—the rules would make that brief period of work worth nearly $65K, which is a return hard to pass up and maybe an example of hate the game, not the player. Am I missing anything here?

 Congress could change the law between now and then. The biggest challenge will be finding the job that will hire you.  You might be rusty at job interviews.

[sparkytheop]

If I retire at 55 with 23 years service:
I am not eliglble for my full FERS pension until age 62. FERS pension amount: $18,800

This is incorrect.  Because you have 20 years, you would still be allowed to begin a deferred annuity at age 60 without any age reduction.  There is no reason to wait until 62.

For the rest-- yes, there are many out there who make a plan to return to work just long enough to restart FEHB so they can take that into retirement, as well as qualify for an immediate annuity, supplement, etc.  However, there is no guarantee you would get hired, and rules could change between now and then, so I would plan as if this would not be an option, that way it's not "needed" and will just bolster your overall retirement if you get it to work out for you.

[DesertRatShorty]

If I retire at 55 with 23 years service:
I am not eliglble for my full FERS pension until age 62. FERS pension amount: $18,800

This is incorrect.  Because you have 20 years, you would still be allowed to begin a deferred annuity at age 60 without any age reduction.  There is no reason to wait until 62.

For the rest-- yes, there are many out there who make a plan to return to work just long enough to restart FEHB so they can take that into retirement, as well as qualify for an immediate annuity, supplement, etc.  However, there is no guarantee you would get hired, and rules could change between now and then, so I would plan as if this would not be an option, that way it's not "needed" and will just bolster your overall retirement if you get it to work out for you.

Thanks, sparkytheop, I'm not sure how I got that wrong. I thought that by separating before MRA, I would not be eligible until 62, but I did some searching and it look like I can still collect at 60+20. (e.g., https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2024/04/resigning-instead-retiring/395647/)

And yes to the second part, no guarantees about getting hired, but my agency hires a ton of GS-5s, often with little vetting, and including some late career people moving down the ladder, so I think if I were willing to apply across the nation, there'd be a very good chance of getting hired. In any case, it would not be something that I was counting on, just a nice possible bonus.

[elysianfields]

What do folks think about the survivor benefit for their federal pension vs. purchasing life insurance?

Kiplinger has an article describing some circumstances in which it might make more sense to purchase life insurance, especially since LI payouts are tax-free, whereas federal pension payments are taxed federally and in many states: Should you take the Survivor Option on Your Pension?

FEGLI seems like the highest-cost LI option, but some folks won't qualify for term life due to health issues, or because they live overseas as we do.

I've mentioned that I've been decreasing my FEGLI every year now that we're done paying college tuition and have a decent-sized portfolio.  The one advantage to LI I can think of, besides that LI payouts aren't taxed, is that they get paid out quickly, which a widow(er) might appreciate given the inherent delays in accessing funds in their deceased spouse's name.

Looking forward to reading your responses.

[DeniseNJ]

What do folks think about the survivor benefit for their federal pension vs. purchasing life insurance?

Kiplinger has an article describing some circumstances in which it might make more sense to purchase life insurance, especially since LI payouts are tax-free, whereas federal pension payments are taxed federally and in many states: Should you take the Survivor Option on Your Pension?

FEGLI seems like the highest-cost LI option, but some folks won't qualify for term life due to health issues, or because they live overseas as we do.

I've mentioned that I've been decreasing my FEGLI every year now that we're done paying college tuition and have a decent-sized portfolio.  The one advantage to LI I can think of, besides that LI payouts aren't taxed, is that they get paid out quickly, which a widow(er) might appreciate given the inherent delays in accessing funds in their deceased spouse's name.

Looking forward to reading your responses.

I wasn't planning on doing either.  If I have 2 mil in the tsp, I don't see why my spouse needs life insurance.

[frugalecon]

What do folks think about the survivor benefit for their federal pension vs. purchasing life insurance?

Kiplinger has an article describing some circumstances in which it might make more sense to purchase life insurance, especially since LI payouts are tax-free, whereas federal pension payments are taxed federally and in many states: Should you take the Survivor Option on Your Pension?

FEGLI seems like the highest-cost LI option, but some folks won't qualify for term life due to health issues, or because they live overseas as we do.

I've mentioned that I've been decreasing my FEGLI every year now that we're done paying college tuition and have a decent-sized portfolio.  The one advantage to LI I can think of, besides that LI payouts aren't taxed, is that they get paid out quickly, which a widow(er) might appreciate given the inherent delays in accessing funds in their deceased spouse's name.

Looking forward to reading your responses.

I wasn't planning on doing either.  If I have 2 mil in the tsp, I don't see why my spouse needs life insurance.

I wouldn’t do a survivor option except that it is necessary to do so for the spouse to have access to FEHB after the annuitant’s death.

[DeniseNJ]

I wouldn’t do a survivor option except that it is necessary to do so for the spouse to have access to FEHB after the annuitant’s death.

I did not know that.  Thanks.

[elysianfields]

What do folks think about the survivor benefit for their federal pension vs. purchasing life insurance?

Kiplinger has an article describing some circumstances in which it might make more sense to purchase life insurance, especially since LI payouts are tax-free, whereas federal pension payments are taxed federally and in many states: Should you take the Survivor Option on Your Pension?

FEGLI seems like the highest-cost LI option, but some folks won't qualify for term life due to health issues, or because they live overseas as we do.

I've mentioned that I've been decreasing my FEGLI every year now that we're done paying college tuition and have a decent-sized portfolio.  The one advantage to LI I can think of, besides that LI payouts aren't taxed, is that they get paid out quickly, which a widow(er) might appreciate given the inherent delays in accessing funds in their deceased spouse's name.

Looking forward to reading your responses.

I wasn't planning on doing either.  If I have 2 mil in the tsp, I don't see why my spouse needs life insurance.

I wouldn’t do a survivor option except that it is necessary to do so for the spouse to have access to FEHB after the annuitant’s death.

Indeed, that’s an important consideration.

[ROF Expat]

What do folks think about the survivor benefit for their federal pension vs. purchasing life insurance?

I have friends that have chosen insurance over the survivor benefit, but  I dumped life insurance and still do the survivor benefit.  My wife is considerably younger than I am, and women generally live longer than men anyway.  When I did some rough "back of the envelope" estimates, it seemed likely in our case that we would collect the highest amount by choosing the survivor benefit.  Keeping FEHB is also a consideration. 

[elysianfields]

TSP has a great summary of the SECURE Act 2.0 changes here:  https://www.tsp.gov/news-and-resources/secure-2-0-and-the-tsp/

Two changes have a personal impact: the increase in the age at which one must take RMDs (to 75 in our case), which gives us more time to Roth convert our way out of the Traditional tax bomb; and the change effective in 2026 in which catch-up contributions must go to Roth if one's pay exceeded some amount in the previous year (when the law passed in 2022, it was $145,000 in wages for 2023).  The amount will adjust with inflation.

Edited to fix typo.

[partgypsy]

TSP has a great summary of the SECURE Act 2.0 changes here:  https://www.tsp.gov/news-and-resources/secure-2-0-and-the-tsp/

Two change have a personal impact: the increase in the age at which one must take RMDs (to 75 in our case), which gives us more time to Roth convert our way out of the Traditional tax bomb; and the change effective in 2026 in which catch-up contributions must go to Roth if one's pay exceeded some amount in the previous year (when the law passed in 2022, it was $145,000 in wages for 2023).  The amount will adjust with inflation.

Does this suggest that having more of one's TSP go into Roth might be beneficial, for potentially reducing income taxes? Right now I only have 5% of my tsp go to Roth. I don't anticipate a really high income when I retire. about 80% of a gs11 salary). So this is something I'm not sure about.

[elysianfields]

TSP has a great summary of the SECURE Act 2.0 changes here:  https://www.tsp.gov/news-and-resources/secure-2-0-and-the-tsp/

Two change have a personal impact: the increase in the age at which one must take RMDs (to 75 in our case), which gives us more time to Roth convert our way out of the Traditional tax bomb; and the change effective in 2026 in which catch-up contributions must go to Roth if one's pay exceeded some amount in the previous year (when the law passed in 2022, it was $145,000 in wages for 2023).  The amount will adjust with inflation.

Does this suggest that having more of one's TSP go into Roth might be beneficial, for potentially reducing income taxes? Right now I only have 5% of my tsp go to Roth. I don't anticipate a really high income when I retire. about 80% of a gs11 salary). So this is something I'm not sure about.

What this really suggests that the Congress wants to raise revenue by forcing high earners turning 50 or older to contribute their catch-up contributions to Roth; you should examine your own situation carefully and make a determination.

Roth IRA contributions are limited to singles with AGI of $146,000 or less ($230,000 for MFJ) in 2024 and phase out above those levels.  TSP contributions aren't limited by participants' income.

In our case, while contributing to Traditional TSP increases the "tax bomb" of RMD, it also reduces our AGI below the Roth IRA contribution limit.  Consequently, we're contributing the maximum ($23,000 plus $7,500 catch-up in 2024) to Traditional TSP and then using Roth conversions to attempt to defuse the "tax bomb"; Roth conversions do increase your AGI but do not count toward the Roth IRA contribution limit.

This strategy allows us to contribute the maximum ($7,000 plus $1,000 catch-up in 2024) to our Roth IRAs as well.

Under the TCJA, marginal tax rates are currently lower than after 2025, so we prefer to pay taxes on Roth conversions now than higher taxes on RMDs later.

[tj]

Unless you plan on working right up until MRA, it probably makes sense to do all traditional because you'll do conversions in low tax brackets the years in between early retirement and start of pension.   If you're going to work until MRA, you gotta do some math.

[Monkey Uncle]

Unless you plan on working right up until MRA, it probably makes sense to do all traditional because you'll do conversions in low tax brackets the years in between early retirement and start of pension.   If you're going to work until MRA, you gotta do some math.

If you retire before MRA and have ACA health insurance, the PTC can throw a monkey wrench into your Roth conversion strategy.  Every dollar you convert to a Roth counts toward your MAGI and raises your health insurance cost.

[tj]

Unless you plan on working right up until MRA, it probably makes sense to do all traditional because you'll do conversions in low tax brackets the years in between early retirement and start of pension.   If you're going to work until MRA, you gotta do some math.

If you retire before MRA and have ACA health insurance, the PTC can throw a monkey wrench into your Roth conversion strategy.  Every dollar you convert to a Roth counts toward your MAGI and raises your health insurance cost.

Yeah. You'll be effed if you're not frugal.

[Huskerfan]

Looking for some guidance; I have a lot to read on FERS. 
Here’s general information for me:

-Retired military, higher rank this it doesn’t make sense to buy back the time
So I’m receiving that pension now.

-VA Disability, receiving now (100%)

Started a FERS gig, GS10.  Have three years of service under this. I am 45 years old. 

What I don’t fully understand is how the retirement piece works for FERS.  Health Benefits are not needed as I have Tricare and my stuff is taken care of from the VA.  No kids need health insurance. Spouse covered through Tricare.  I elected no heath insurance with my FERs gig being that we are all taken care of.  So I’m not concerned about staying in a certain amount of time to keep health benefits.

What I’m curious about: what is my monthly pay if I decide to leave at age 57 it’s 15 years of service?

Likewise: what is it if I stay to 62 at 20 years of service? 

Trying to figure that out as I’m not seeing a calculator to punch numbers in (or I’m looking in the wrong place). Thanks



Edit: I may have found come quick math type of calculations. Can anyone run this and let me know if it “seems” correct:  these are estimations to keep math simple:


Salary if I defer to 62. Retire at 57
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000 a month

Salary if I take the payment at MRA +10 (57 years old)
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000
Penalty: 6 years. 5% each year.  =30% penalty
Equals $700 per month

[sparkytheop]

Looking for some guidance; I have a lot to read on FERS. 
Here’s general information for me:

-Retired military, higher rank this it doesn’t make sense to buy back the time
So I’m receiving that pension now.

-VA Disability, receiving now (100%)

Started a FERS gig, GS10.  Have three years of service under this. I am 45 years old. 

What I don’t fully understand is how the retirement piece works for FERS.  Health Benefits are not needed as I have Tricare and my stuff is taken care of from the VA.  No kids need health insurance. Spouse covered through Tricare.  I elected no heath insurance with my FERs gig being that we are all taken care of.  So I’m not concerned about staying in a certain amount of time to keep health benefits.

What I’m curious about: what is my monthly pay if I decide to leave at age 57 it’s 15 years of service?

Likewise: what is it if I stay to 62 at 20 years of service? 

Trying to figure that out as I’m not seeing a calculator to punch numbers in (or I’m looking in the wrong place). Thanks



Edit: I may have found come quick math type of calculations. Can anyone run this and let me know if it “seems” correct:  these are estimations to keep math simple:


Salary if I defer to 62. Retire at 57
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000 a month

Salary if I take the payment at MRA +10 (57 years old)
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000
Penalty: 6 years. 5% each year.  =30% penalty
Equals $700 per month

Penalty would be 5 years, 5% per year (62-57=5)

The rest is correct (I'm assuming the $80k is the figure you're using for "high-3 average").

If you work until 62, with at least 20 years, you change the multiplier from 1% to 1.1%.

You'll need at least 5 years of FERS service to collect any pension (with five years, you could leave and collect a deferred pension at 62).

[Sugaree]

I'll add to that if you are DoD then there should be something called the GRB platform that calculates some estimates on FERS retirement.  I'm not sure which other agencies use that one, but there should be something similar if yours doesn't. 

[Fomerly known as something]

Looking for some guidance; I have a lot to read on FERS. 
Here’s general information for me:

-Retired military, higher rank this it doesn’t make sense to buy back the time
So I’m receiving that pension now.

-VA Disability, receiving now (100%)

Started a FERS gig, GS10.  Have three years of service under this. I am 45 years old. 

What I don’t fully understand is how the retirement piece works for FERS.  Health Benefits are not needed as I have Tricare and my stuff is taken care of from the VA.  No kids need health insurance. Spouse covered through Tricare.  I elected no heath insurance with my FERs gig being that we are all taken care of.  So I’m not concerned about staying in a certain amount of time to keep health benefits.

What I’m curious about: what is my monthly pay if I decide to leave at age 57 it’s 15 years of service?

Likewise: what is it if I stay to 62 at 20 years of service? 

Trying to figure that out as I’m not seeing a calculator to punch numbers in (or I’m looking in the wrong place). Thanks



Edit: I may have found come quick math type of calculations. Can anyone run this and let me know if it “seems” correct:  these are estimations to keep math simple:


Salary if I defer to 62. Retire at 57
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000 a month

Salary if I take the payment at MRA +10 (57 years old)
$80000 X 15 years X 1% /12 =$1000
Penalty: 6 years. 5% each year.  =30% penalty
Equals $700 per month

Dan Jameson has a book available on Amazon called the FERS guide, actually he has 2 one for employees who are special category employees (fire fighters, ATC and Law Enforcement) and one for “regular” employees.  He does a great job of explaining FERS in “English”.  Also if your agency has them go to a retirement seminar as w
Early as possible.

[partgypsy]

desertratshorty touched on some of these issues, but I am hoping people can walk me through some things.

I would like to, continue till I work till age 60 where I will have MRA+ 24 years, and I can take both my FERS pension and also hopefully! the FERS supplement which would allow me to retire.
However, there are many changes to my workplace. There is a chance going forward I may lose job (I have already hit my MRA).
Of course plan a is to find another job in gov, continue to work until age 60, etc.

If I cannot, plan b is to get a job outside of the gov.
In that case, what happens when I hit age 60? From my understanding, when I take retirement it means I would start drawing from pension, and withdraw from retirement tsp funds, but would NOT: be able to stay or get on gov health insurance, NOR be eligible for the FERS supplement.  Please correct me if/where I am wrong.

[tj]

desertratshorty touched on some of these issues, but I am hoping people can walk me through some things.

I would like to, continue till I work till age 60 where I will have MRA+ 24 years, and I can take both my FERS pension and also hopefully! the FERS supplement which would allow me to retire.
However, there are many changes to my workplace. There is a chance going forward I may lose job (I have already hit my MRA).
Of course plan a is to find another job in gov, continue to work until age 60, etc.

If I cannot, plan b is to get a job outside of the gov.
In that case, what happens when I hit age 60? From my understanding, when I take retirement it means I would start drawing from pension, and withdraw from retirement tsp funds, but would NOT: be able to stay or get on gov health insurance, NOR be eligible for the FERS supplement.  Please correct me if/where I am wrong.

if you live before 57 with 20 or more years of service and you start your pension at 60, the pension is all you get.

[partgypsy]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

[tj]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

You just submit an application for postponed retirement when you turn 60 and elect fehb restart. You won't get the supplement but you get 3 years of your life back. I'd make that trade.

Or you can take a 25% haircut on your pension at 57 and have fehb the whole time. Many wouldn't make that trade, but some do.

[frugalecon]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

For the FERS supplement, you need to be able to get an immediate, unreduced annuity. I believe that is MRA+30 or 60+20, unless there is a VERA in your agency. (Or you are a law enforcement officer, I think.)

[tj]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

For the FERS supplement, you need to be able to get an immediate, unreduced annuity. I believe that is MRA+30 or 60+20, unless there is a VERA in your agency. (Or you are a law enforcement officer, I think.)

That would be correct.

[partgypsy]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

For the FERS supplement, you need to be able to get an immediate, unreduced annuity. I believe that is MRA+30 or 60+20, unless there is a VERA in your agency. (Or you are a law enforcement officer, I think.)

That would be correct.

that's too bad about the fers supplement. If I don't get that I will need to work till I'm eligible for social security, so even later.

[DeniseNJ]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

For the FERS supplement, you need to be able to get an immediate, unreduced annuity. I believe that is MRA+30 or 60+20, unless there is a VERA in your agency. (Or you are a law enforcement officer, I think.)

That would be correct.

that's too bad about the fers supplement. If I don't get that I will need to work till I'm eligible for social security, so even later.

You said, at age 60 you would have MRA+ 24 years.  You would then have the 60 and 20+ so you would get the supplement.

[tj]

I will be 57 (mra) before I leave regardless. Any way to do it to be eligible for fers supplement. Also retain health insurance? I heard with a postponement (how that is different than a deferral) I can start health insurance again. But not the fers supplement.

For the FERS supplement, you need to be able to get an immediate, unreduced annuity. I believe that is MRA+30 or 60+20, unless there is a VERA in your agency. (Or you are a law enforcement officer, I think.)

That would be correct.

that's too bad about the fers supplement. If I don't get that I will need to work till I'm eligible for social security, so even later.

You said, at age 60 you would have MRA+ 24 years.  You would then have the 60 and 20+ so you would get the supplement.

That's only if you work until you are 60.

[sparkytheop]

desertratshorty touched on some of these issues, but I am hoping people can walk me through some things.

I would like to, continue till I work till age 60 where I will have MRA+ 24 years, and I can take both my FERS pension and also hopefully! the FERS supplement which would allow me to retire.
However, there are many changes to my workplace. There is a chance going forward I may lose job (I have already hit my MRA).
Of course plan a is to find another job in gov, continue to work until age 60, etc.

If I cannot, plan b is to get a job outside of the gov.
In that case, what happens when I hit age 60? From my understanding, when I take retirement it means I would start drawing from pension, and withdraw from retirement tsp funds, but would NOT: be able to stay or get on gov health insurance, NOR be eligible for the FERS supplement.  Please correct me if/where I am wrong.

If you get RIFed, or have an "involuntary separation", it's similar to a VERA if you are age 50 with 20 years (and, if you'll have 24 years at age 60, it looks like you are.

So, this is what you want to research. 

Involuntary Separation (Discontinued Service), if not for misconduct, will allow you to take an immediate retirement, with FEHB, pension, and supplement (since you are already at MRA).

You don't have to postpone, lose the supplement (no supplement with postponed), reach age 60, etc for this to apply.

Basically, go at age 60 if you don't lose your job, apply for involuntary separation if you do.

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c044.pdf


"In general, a retiree annuity supplement is payable to an employee retiring with a discontinued
service annuity when they reach the Minimum Retirement Age (MRA).
For rules regarding eligibility for and payment of the retiree annuity supplement, see Chapter 51,
Retiree Annuity Supplement.
For rules regarding the applicability of the MRA, see Chapter 41."

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/fers-information/types-of-retirement/#url=Early-Retirement

"A discontinued service retirement provides an immediate annuity for employees who are separated involuntarily. Discontinued service retirement has different age and service requirements than voluntary retirement (see eligibility requirement below). The term “involuntary separation” means any separation against the will and without the consent of the employee, other than “for cause” for misconduct or delinquency. The most common cause of an involuntary separation is a reduction in force. Another frequent cause for an involuntary separation is when the location of an office or unit is moved to an area outside the commuting area of the old worksite*. Employees who decline reasonable offers of other positions are not eligible for discontinued service annuities.

*Exception: If, when you accepted your current position, you were placed under a general mobility agreement whereby you would be subject to geographic reassignment, you would not be eligible for discontinued service annuity rights if your position is moved to an area outside the commuting area.

If your agency:

makes you a reasonable offer and you choose to decline the offer and resign, you will not qualify for discontinued service retirement, or
separates you by adverse action procedures for not complying with a directed reassignment to a position that is a “reasonable offer,”
then your separation would not qualify for discontinued service."

[partgypsy]

This is all very helpful, thank you. Still wanting to go with plan a, and stay till 60. But will look into other avenues if need be. Bc of divorce and other reasons, am behind retirement wise so the next few years are important. If I was able to get supplement I would retire from fed but continue to work in some capacity for another few years if possible. 

[ROF Expat]

This is all very helpful, thank you. Still wanting to go with plan a, and stay till 60. But will look into other avenues if need be. Bc of divorce and other reasons, am behind retirement wise so the next few years are important. If I was able to get supplement I would retire from fed but continue to work in some capacity for another few years if possible.

Keep in mind that if you get the FERS supplement and continue to work, there's an income limit (currently about $22K) after which your supplement is reduced by $1 for every $2 earned. 

[Catbert]

It's been said up thread (possibly numerous times), go to a retirement seminar as soon as your Agency will let you.  While you find out pretty much anything online that only works if you know to ask a specific question.

I'll tell a very old story.  This was back in CSRS days when retirement was much less complicated unless you fell into a speciality category (e.g., combining military service, firefighter, etc).  A very senior engineer was getting ready to retire.  That's when he found out that he needed to have FEHB for 5 years before retirement in order to carry it into retirement.  His wife worked for private industry and it had been cheaper to be on her insurance. He understandably wanted to have FEHB in retirement and ended up working several more years in able to keep it.

[Phenix]

Any ideas on how to "engineer" an involuntary separation? I just currently went through an organizational change that eliminated my position, but they quickly offered me a position in the same job series in an office I'm not so keen on joining. I'm guessing an employee would have to work at a much smaller government facility and have an event like BRAC displace them. And even that's not a guarantee with how many jobs can be completed remotely now.

[elysianfields]

First, I want to remind all our Feds that federal elections have consequences, and they have more direct impact on us than for the average voter.  Vote, and help your fellow Feds vote!

Second, in line with my plan, I reduced my FEGLI to Basic.  I had thought about holding on to option A for a while longer, but the cost is much higher for a mere $10,000 in coverage compared to option B, so I nixed them both.

I was thinking about holding Basic FEGLI into retirement, but after discussing it with my partner and looking at the premiums, in my case it makes little sense.  As discussed upthread, I'd have to continue to pay during my working years, then pay through age 65 on a reducing benefit, to obtain free insurance covering 25% of my final salary, rounded up to the next $1000 plus $2000.  That's not exactly a massive amount of life insurance.  Furthermore, given our portfolio, which increased by over a third in the past twelve months, we have hardly any need for any sort of life insurance, so I'm planning to drop Basic before the new year.

We're still targeting sometime in 2026. Once I reach my years of service obligation, it's simply a matter of choosing the optimal Job Search and Transition Program, most of which are now held virtually.

We're still discussing where we'd like to retire, and I suspect that discussion will become much more serious in the new year.

How are other Feds thinking about their futures?

[tj]

I'm thinking of jettisoning after the end of the year and taking back my FERS contributions as if it never happened, though I also think about leaving it in there for deferred FERS and in case I go back fed later in life. :D

[elysianfields]

I'm thinking of jettisoning after the end of the year and taking back my FERS contributions as if it never happened, though I also think about leaving it in there for deferred FERS and in case I go back fed later in life. :D

Hmmm I think you're in the wrong thread, then. </kiddingnotkidding>

Sorry to hear you don't see much of a future in Federal employment.  Is it fixable?  Are you going to FIRE or look for other employment? 

[tj]

I'm thinking of jettisoning after the end of the year and taking back my FERS contributions as if it never happened, though I also think about leaving it in there for deferred FERS and in case I go back fed later in life. :D

Hmmm I think you're in the wrong thread, then. </kiddingnotkidding>

Sorry to hear you don't see much of a future in Federal employment.  Is it fixable?  Are you going to FIRE or look for other employment?

FIRE, unless I can think of something that sounds more fun than that.

[Michael in ABQ]

I'm thinking of jettisoning after the end of the year and taking back my FERS contributions as if it never happened, though I also think about leaving it in there for deferred FERS and in case I go back fed later in life. :D

I requested a refund of my FERS contributions for my ~3-year federal career. I think I earned about $50 in interest as well. But the prospect of buying back military time to get a $250/month pension in 25 years was not really appealing vs getting a few thousand dollars back today. And by today, I mean six months later because it took forever for them to process the paperwork and actually send me the money.

[tj]

I'm thinking of jettisoning after the end of the year and taking back my FERS contributions as if it never happened, though I also think about leaving it in there for deferred FERS and in case I go back fed later in life. :D

I requested a refund of my FERS contributions for my ~3-year federal career. I think I earned about $50 in interest as well. But the prospect of buying back military time to get a $250/month pension in 25 years was not really appealing vs getting a few thousand dollars back today. And by today, I mean six months later because it took forever for them to process the paperwork and actually send me the money.

You worked for the government, did you expect it to be quick? :D

[Phenix]

Does anyone know if there's an OPM table that lists what interest rate they use for each quarter/year when you request a FERS payout? I'm a FERS-FRAE employee and pay 4.?% into FERS each pay period. Over 10 years, I've got a decent amount of my contributions in FERS and would be curious to estimate how much is in there if I calculate the interest.

[tj]

Does anyone know if there's an OPM table that lists what interest rate they use for each quarter/year when you request a FERS payout? I'm a FERS-FRAE employee and pay 4.?% into FERS each pay period. Over 10 years, I've got a decent amount of my contributions in FERS and would be curious to estimate how much is in there if I calculate the interest.

I don't think there is anything like that. You're just supposed to trust them that they get it right. :)

It would be whatever the G Fund rates have been each month though.

[Phenix]

Does anyone know if there's an OPM table that lists what interest rate they use for each quarter/year when you request a FERS payout? I'm a FERS-FRAE employee and pay 4.?% into FERS each pay period. Over 10 years, I've got a decent amount of my contributions in FERS and would be curious to estimate how much is in there if I calculate the interest.

I don't think there is anything like that. You're just supposed to trust them that they get it right. :)

It would be whatever the G Fund rates have been each month though.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/interest-rates-used-for-computation-of-back-pay/
I found the back pay interest rates, but those are definitely too high to be used for FERS pay out.

[tj]

Does anyone know if there's an OPM table that lists what interest rate they use for each quarter/year when you request a FERS payout? I'm a FERS-FRAE employee and pay 4.?% into FERS each pay period. Over 10 years, I've got a decent amount of my contributions in FERS and would be curious to estimate how much is in there if I calculate the interest.

I don't think there is anything like that. You're just supposed to trust them that they get it right. :)

It would be whatever the G Fund rates have been each month though.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/interest-rates-used-for-computation-of-back-pay/
I found the back pay interest rates, but those are definitely too high to be used for FERS pay out.

Those are not the g fund rate.

[sparkytheop]

Does anyone know if there's an OPM table that lists what interest rate they use for each quarter/year when you request a FERS payout? I'm a FERS-FRAE employee and pay 4.?% into FERS each pay period. Over 10 years, I've got a decent amount of my contributions in FERS and would be curious to estimate how much is in there if I calculate the interest.

I don't think there is anything like that. You're just supposed to trust them that they get it right. :)

It would be whatever the G Fund rates have been each month though.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/interest-rates-used-for-computation-of-back-pay/
I found the back pay interest rates, but those are definitely too high to be used for FERS pay out.

https://www.tsp.gov/fund-performance/

Unselect everything but G fund and you can easily find the monthly returns back to 1988.

[DeniseNJ]

Did anybody take the offer to resign?  Or is anybody taking the early outs being offered by some agencies?

I can't go yet--stash not ready. Plus you don't get the supplemental until FRA even though the pension is not reduced.