How many Feds here hanging on for MRA?

[elysianfields]

As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS

I don't see ow this is true.  If I can retire in 6 months and have 2 months of sick leave, then I work for 6 months and 2 months of "time" is added to my retirement date.  But if I use 2 month now and retire in 6 months, I got paid for not working but it won't be added to my retirement date.  My pension will be based on retiring in 6 months, rather than 8.  I retire in 6 months either way.  It seems more like you can use it if you don't feel like going into work, or it can be added on to your retirement date for the purposes of calculating your pension, but not both.

I think the idea is that there's a third option.  You use your leave, get paid while on leave, and are accruing time in service even though you're on leave.  You would delay your retirement date by the amount of leave time you take.  In this scenario, you might also get some other benefits (like locality pay) that you might not get if you take the cash value of leave.  I don't think taking a lot of unnecessary sick leave is going to pass anybody's smell test, but choosing to take one's annual leave while in service rather than as cash after retirement seems reasonable.

@ROF Expat has it right.

To clarify: I didn’t mention shirking nor not going to work because one doesn’t feel like it, and it makes more sense to consult with one’s ophthalmologist, cardiologist, dentist, &c. if one can do so before retirement rather than afterwards.

[DeniseNJ]

As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS

I don't see ow this is true.  If I can retire in 6 months and have 2 months of sick leave, then I work for 6 months and 2 months of "time" is added to my retirement date.  But if I use 2 month now and retire in 6 months, I got paid for not working but it won't be added to my retirement date.  My pension will be based on retiring in 6 months, rather than 8.  I retire in 6 months either way.  It seems more like you can use it if you don't feel like going into work, or it can be added on to your retirement date for the purposes of calculating your pension, but not both.

I think the idea is that there's a third option.  You use your leave, get paid while on leave, and are accruing time in service even though you're on leave.  You would delay your retirement date by the amount of leave time you take.  In this scenario, you might also get some other benefits (like locality pay) that you might not get if you take the cash value of leave.  I don't think taking a lot of unnecessary sick leave is going to pass anybody's smell test, but choosing to take one's annual leave while in service rather than as cash after retirement seems reasonable.

@ROF Expat has it right.

To clarify: I didn’t mention shirking nor not going to work because one doesn’t feel like it, and it makes more sense to consult with one’s ophthalmologist, cardiologist, dentist, &c. if one can do so before retirement rather than afterwards.

If you take say 2 months of leave, like either shirking (no judgement) or going to doc appts, and delay your retirement by that 2 months so you retire in 8 months instead of 6, I guess you are getting paid and adding to your retirement date.  You are also missing those two retirement pay checks, so you're really coming in for 2 extra months for not as much pay as you think since you'd be getting some pension payments just sitting at home.

Sure, if you need extended sick, or any sick then take it--no reason to save it now.  I knew a guy who had both knees done before retirement.  But if you're looking to retire asap (I am), then I'd rather just retire on time rather than extend my time to get paid and get credit for it.  It seems like there's also a cost to working that extra 2 months, in the scenario above.

[Just_Me]

As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS

I don't see ow this is true.  If I can retire in 6 months and have 2 months of sick leave, then I work for 6 months and 2 months of "time" is added to my retirement date.  But if I use 2 month now and retire in 6 months, I got paid for not working but it won't be added to my retirement date.  My pension will be based on retiring in 6 months, rather than 8.  I retire in 6 months either way.  It seems more like you can use it if you don't feel like going into work, or it can be added on to your retirement date for the purposes of calculating your pension, but not both.

I think the idea is that there's a third option.  You use your leave, get paid while on leave, and are accruing time in service even though you're on leave.  You would delay your retirement date by the amount of leave time you take.  In this scenario, you might also get some other benefits (like locality pay) that you might not get if you take the cash value of leave.  I don't think taking a lot of unnecessary sick leave is going to pass anybody's smell test, but choosing to take one's annual leave while in service rather than as cash after retirement seems reasonable.

@ROF Expat has it right.

To clarify: I didn’t mention shirking nor not going to work because one doesn’t feel like it, and it makes more sense to consult with one’s ophthalmologist, cardiologist, dentist, &c. if one can do so before retirement rather than afterwards.

If you take say 2 months of leave, like either shirking (no judgement) or going to doc appts, and delay your retirement by that 2 months so you retire in 8 months instead of 6, I guess you are getting paid and adding to your retirement date.  You are also missing those two retirement pay checks, so you're really coming in for 2 extra months for not as much pay as you think since you'd be getting some pension payments just sitting at home.

Sure, if you need extended sick, or any sick then take it--no reason to save it now.  I knew a guy who had both knees done before retirement.  But if you're looking to retire asap (I am), then I'd rather just retire on time rather than extend my time to get paid and get credit for it.  It seems like there's also a cost to working that extra 2 months, in the scenario above.

Agreed with that. For those that don't plan on getting immediate payments, or payments for 13+ years in my case, it makes more sense to take the sick leave during service.

[Fomerly known as something]

Elysian Fields, DoneFSO, and any other FSOs on this thread 

Just a couple of thoughts from a retired FSO.

Unless the rules have changed, you can take the short retirement course up to five years before eligibility for retirement.  It is worth taking the course early.  It is the right place to ask specific questions like whether you need Medicare Parts B and D and how to use your benefits in the most advantageous manner while you still have time to plan.  Immediately before retirement, you can take the "long" retirement course.  That course is worth taking as well and includes some paid "job search" time, even if you aren't interested in looking for employment.  It is similar (but less generous) than the retirement program the military offers to retiring officers. 

BTW, the bureaucracy of retirement for FSOs is less than with most other agencies because State manages its own retirement system rather than running it through OPM.  The requirements are still the same (you, your spouse and two witnesses will still have to sign if you don't want to reserve the most generous retirement benefits for your spouse), but the office gives clear instructions about what you need to do to prepare and the process is straightforward.  I probably spent a few hours filling in forms and then less than 30 minutes in the office getting it processed.  Checking out with my bureau, turning in IDs and cell phones and canceling Diplomatic passports (which I still miss) took a few more hours.  State is normally very good about sending your first annuity payment on time and they usually give you cash from unused annual leave quickly as well. 

Consider doing the paperwork to be on Bureaus' WAE lists, and talking to the appropriate EX Directors, especially if you are in one of the cones where WAE work is more common.  I was not interested, but it works well for a lot of people. 

Retired FSO is a good gig.

@ROF Expat Welcome to the thread, thank you for your service, and thanks for this post!

The rules have changed: you may now take the five-day retirement seminar once a year.  DW and I will take it again during our next home leave.  We'll see whether the job-search seminar makes sense as an exit strategy.  As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS; unused annual leave gets paid out BUT doesn't count toward your ToS).

I'm glad to hear that State provides less BAAS (Bureaucracy as a Service) than OPM.  An acquaintance just successfully retired after processing his retirement paperwork mere weeks before he pulled the ripcord.

I'm an IMS (~IT for non-State people reading along) and since State keeps neglecting to refill our ranks through recruitment, my services are in great demand.  I'll probably register for WAE (now called REA - Re-employed Annuitants), but not sure whether I'll actually participate.  We most likely won't need the money and we'll see whether I'm up for continuing the adventure a bit.

I’m in a similar spot with my SCE law enforcement job on a similar time line.  42 months to go for me.  I could totally be an Annuitant but the question would be why.  I won’t need the money.

ETA:  writing this while watching a NAFRE SCE retirement seminar.

[simonsez]

As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS

I don't see ow this is true.  If I can retire in 6 months and have 2 months of sick leave, then I work for 6 months and 2 months of "time" is added to my retirement date.  But if I use 2 month now and retire in 6 months, I got paid for not working but it won't be added to my retirement date.  My pension will be based on retiring in 6 months, rather than 8.  I retire in 6 months either way.  It seems more like you can use it if you don't feel like going into work, or it can be added on to your retirement date for the purposes of calculating your pension, but not both.

I think the idea is that there's a third option.  You use your leave, get paid while on leave, and are accruing time in service even though you're on leave.  You would delay your retirement date by the amount of leave time you take.  In this scenario, you might also get some other benefits (like locality pay) that you might not get if you take the cash value of leave.  I don't think taking a lot of unnecessary sick leave is going to pass anybody's smell test, but choosing to take one's annual leave while in service rather than as cash after retirement seems reasonable.

@ROF Expat has it right.

To clarify: I didn’t mention shirking nor not going to work because one doesn’t feel like it, and it makes more sense to consult with one’s ophthalmologist, cardiologist, dentist, &c. if one can do so before retirement rather than afterwards.

If you take say 2 months of leave, like either shirking (no judgement) or going to doc appts, and delay your retirement by that 2 months so you retire in 8 months instead of 6, I guess you are getting paid and adding to your retirement date.  You are also missing those two retirement pay checks, so you're really coming in for 2 extra months for not as much pay as you think since you'd be getting some pension payments just sitting at home.

Sure, if you need extended sick, or any sick then take it--no reason to save it now.  I knew a guy who had both knees done before retirement.  But if you're looking to retire asap (I am), then I'd rather just retire on time rather than extend my time to get paid and get credit for it.  It seems like there's also a cost to working that extra 2 months, in the scenario above.

Lots of good options being discussed!  @sol was always a fan of draining your SL at the end as much as possible to take care of major surgeries while still getting paychecks and there weren't any health insurance complications (more pertinent to the early retiree).  On the other extreme, I know a CSRS guy who retired at 58 with just under 2 years worth of unused SL.  Any appointments or times that he was ill he'd just use his AL.  He was also a high school soccer coach in great shape and there wasn't anything medical that he needed, at least not on any medium to long term basis where he could realistically drain down his unused SL, not be at the office, and still be employed with day to day operations running smoothly.  He retired in December after going into the last year with the full 240 for a GS employee and retired with over 400 hours of AL as a fully stepped out 15.  He and his wife went to Bermuda after his AL was paid out.

[Sugaree]

As discussed above, I'm considering how to use as much of my sick and annual leave as possible before retirement (if used, you get paid for the time AND it counts in your Time of Service; unused sick leave isn't paid BUT counts toward your ToS

I don't see ow this is true.  If I can retire in 6 months and have 2 months of sick leave, then I work for 6 months and 2 months of "time" is added to my retirement date.  But if I use 2 month now and retire in 6 months, I got paid for not working but it won't be added to my retirement date.  My pension will be based on retiring in 6 months, rather than 8.  I retire in 6 months either way.  It seems more like you can use it if you don't feel like going into work, or it can be added on to your retirement date for the purposes of calculating your pension, but not both.

I think the idea is that there's a third option.  You use your leave, get paid while on leave, and are accruing time in service even though you're on leave.  You would delay your retirement date by the amount of leave time you take.  In this scenario, you might also get some other benefits (like locality pay) that you might not get if you take the cash value of leave.  I don't think taking a lot of unnecessary sick leave is going to pass anybody's smell test, but choosing to take one's annual leave while in service rather than as cash after retirement seems reasonable.

"Sick leave pending retirement" is definitely a thing around here.  But we're an industrial base, so far too often people are worn down and sick before they retire.  My dad ended up taking his sick leave two to three days a week for months and ended up using his last 9 hours of sick leave on his last pay period.  At the time, the union agreement said that you only had to have a doctor's note if you took more than three days in a week.

[RainyDay]

Agreed with that. For those that don't plan on getting immediate payments, or payments for 13+ years in my case, it makes more sense to take the sick leave during service.

Same here.  I'll have 10-ish years til I start getting my annuity, so I'd rather use up sick leave prior to leaving service.  It's worth nothing once I leave early (deferred retirement). 

[ROF Expat]

I’m in a similar spot with my SCE law enforcement job on a similar time line.  42 months to go for me.  I could totally be an Annuitant but the question would be why.  I won’t need the money.

ETA:  writing this while watching a NAFRE SCE retirement seminar.

I can easily imagine why someone in a high pressure LEO position might have no desire to be an annuitant.  For a lot of retired Foreign Service Officers and Specialists, working as annuitants isn't really about the money.  Many people like the lifestyle and work of the Foreign Service like their work, and a fair number love it.  If it works for you, there aren't a lot of alternatives out there.  Even when people don't love their work, they often like a lot of their colleagues and the Foreign Service community.  It isn't hard for the State Department to find retirees to work for a few weeks or months, especially in an interesting country. 

I think some people view working as a State REA as a chance to have something like a slow travel experience (with a salary) in exchange for their willingness to work during the week. 

 

[ROF Expat]

  I'll probably register for WAE (now called REA - Re-employed Annuitants), but not sure whether I'll actually participate.  We most likely won't need the money and we'll see whether I'm up for continuing the adventure a bit.

REA?  Thanks for helping me not sound like the retired geezer that I am! (I left about five years ago.)  I still call LES FSNs, too...

[the_fixer]

We’re at maximum telework these days, not that it makes much difference I’m afraid.  The vaccinated rate is so low because vaccines are expensive, keeping them cold is an insurmountable obstacle, the population is under-educated (so misinformation runs unimpeded) and the host government is corrupt and incompetent.  Hospitals are overrun and not up to the challenge under normal circumstances, COVID just makes it that much harder.  We’ve had lots of breakthrough cases, even among boosted adults.  Being vaccinated really does result in milder cases, from what I’ve observed.  But the poor infrastructure (power & internet) makes telework nearly impossible for many local staff.

A clock somewhere has struck, 50 months to go before I can take the golden handcuffs to the pawn shop.

As I mentioned in the 2026 Cohort thread, if the stock market continues to drop, I’ll accelerate my contributions & investments if I can.  While the market is priced for perfection, I suspect we’ll see good to great results when companies start announcing their Q4 results.

What country are you in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m going to keep that private for now, thanks for asking anyways.

Understood, was just confusing with the talk of issues around getting the vaccine where you are and then I realized you are outside the US.

just interesting to hear about hesitancy in a country other than the US.

Congratulations, hope the time flys for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m in a similar spot with my SCE law enforcement job on a similar time line.  42 months to go for me.  I could totally be an Annuitant but the question would be why.  I won’t need the money.

ETA:  writing this while watching a NAFRE SCE retirement seminar.

I can easily imagine why someone in a high pressure LEO position might have no desire to be an annuitant.  For a lot of retired Foreign Service Officers and Specialists, working as annuitants isn't really about the money.  Many people like the lifestyle and work of the Foreign Service like their work, and a fair number love it.  If it works for you, there aren't a lot of alternatives out there.  Even when people don't love their work, they often like a lot of their colleagues and the Foreign Service community.  It isn't hard for the State Department to find retirees to work for a few weeks or months, especially in an interesting country. 

I think some people view working as a State REA as a chance to have something like a slow travel experience (with a salary) in exchange for their willingness to work during the week.

Ours have some more limited roles than fully employed, but they travel a lot so some similar appeal.  Me I don’t want to be on anyones schedule and rather slow travel or something.

[Fomerly known as something]

  I'll probably register for WAE (now called REA - Re-employed Annuitants), but not sure whether I'll actually participate.  We most likely won't need the money and we'll see whether I'm up for continuing the adventure a bit.

REA?  Thanks for helping me not sound like the retired geezer that I am! (I left about five years ago.)  I still call LES FSNs, too...

Wait they aren’t FSNs, I did more overseas work 2008-2013.

[elysianfields]

I’m in a similar spot with my SCE law enforcement job on a similar time line.  42 months to go for me.  I could totally be an Annuitant but the question would be why.  I won’t need the money.

ETA:  writing this while watching a NAFRE SCE retirement seminar.

I can easily imagine why someone in a high pressure LEO position might have no desire to be an annuitant.  For a lot of retired Foreign Service Officers and Specialists, working as annuitants isn't really about the money.  Many people like the lifestyle and work of the Foreign Service like their work, and a fair number love it.  If it works for you, there aren't a lot of alternatives out there.  Even when people don't love their work, they often like a lot of their colleagues and the Foreign Service community.  It isn't hard for the State Department to find retirees to work for a few weeks or months, especially in an interesting country. 

I think some people view working as a State REA as a chance to have something like a slow travel experience (with a salary) in exchange for their willingness to work during the week.

Indeed, the plusses include visiting new countries or checking in on familiar ones and continuing with the FS community. If I REA'd, DW would come with me to explore the place whilst I'd toil away.  One can also amass some miles & points, depending.

  I'll probably register for WAE (now called REA - Re-employed Annuitants), but not sure whether I'll actually participate.  We most likely won't need the money and we'll see whether I'm up for continuing the adventure a bit.

REA?  Thanks for helping me not sound like the retired geezer that I am! (I left about five years ago.)  I still call LES FSNs, too...

Wait they aren’t FSNs, I did more overseas work 2008-2013.

Yeah, every abbreviation gets updated, we use LES now, Locally Employed Staff.  HR is now GTM - Global Talent Management.  I wonder how much that stupid change cost the taxpayer.  What was wrong with "personnel"?  I tend to side with George Carlin on the use of euphemisms and newer terms.

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m in a similar spot with my SCE law enforcement job on a similar time line.  42 months to go for me.  I could totally be an Annuitant but the question would be why.  I won’t need the money.

ETA:  writing this while watching a NAFRE SCE retirement seminar.

I can easily imagine why someone in a high pressure LEO position might have no desire to be an annuitant.  For a lot of retired Foreign Service Officers and Specialists, working as annuitants isn't really about the money.  Many people like the lifestyle and work of the Foreign Service like their work, and a fair number love it.  If it works for you, there aren't a lot of alternatives out there.  Even when people don't love their work, they often like a lot of their colleagues and the Foreign Service community.  It isn't hard for the State Department to find retirees to work for a few weeks or months, especially in an interesting country. 

I think some people view working as a State REA as a chance to have something like a slow travel experience (with a salary) in exchange for their willingness to work during the week.

Indeed, the plusses include visiting new countries or checking in on familiar ones and continuing with the FS community. If I REA'd, DW would come with me to explore the place whilst I'd toil away.  One can also amass some miles & points, depending.

  I'll probably register for WAE (now called REA - Re-employed Annuitants), but not sure whether I'll actually participate.  We most likely won't need the money and we'll see whether I'm up for continuing the adventure a bit.

REA?  Thanks for helping me not sound like the retired geezer that I am! (I left about five years ago.)  I still call LES FSNs, too...

Wait they aren’t FSNs, I did more overseas work 2008-2013.

Yeah, every abbreviation gets updated, we use LES now, Locally Employed Staff.  HR is now GTM - Global Talent Management.  I wonder how much that stupid change cost the taxpayer.  What was wrong with "personnel"?  I tend to side with George Carlin on the use of euphemisms and newer terms.

My agency should be good with you all as long as they don’t rename RSO’s.  We can’t keep up with our own agency name changes. 

[sparkytheop]

Agreed with that. For those that don't plan on getting immediate payments, or payments for 13+ years in my case, it makes more sense to take the sick leave during service.

Same here.  I'll have 10-ish years til I start getting my annuity, so I'd rather use up sick leave prior to leaving service.  It's worth nothing once I leave early (deferred retirement).

Using sick leave to add to years of service for the pension calculation is only allowed if you retire and take an immediate annuity.  If you defer retirement, it's not an option.  Sick leave doesn't cash out when you separate, and basically just stays in your bank in case you return to federal service later.  If you're never coming back, taking the sick leave during service is your only option to make use of it.

ETA: first post wasn't clear that they understood that, second post looked like they did... 

[Just_Me]

Agreed with that. For those that don't plan on getting immediate payments, or payments for 13+ years in my case, it makes more sense to take the sick leave during service.

Same here.  I'll have 10-ish years til I start getting my annuity, so I'd rather use up sick leave prior to leaving service.  It's worth nothing once I leave early (deferred retirement).

Using sick leave to add to years of service for the pension calculation is only allowed if you retire and take an immediate annuity.  If you defer retirement, it's not an option.  Sick leave doesn't cash out when you separate, and basically just stays in your bank in case you return to federal service later.  If you're never coming back, taking the sick leave during service is your only option to make use of it.

ETA: first post wasn't clear that they understood that, second post looked like they did...

I wasn't aware thanks. Must have skimmed over that detail.

[Sugaree]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back. 

[Just_Me]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

[Sugaree]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

Unfortunately, that's kind of how I'm leaning.  I also went back and looked at the job announcement and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the work.  This will have been the second TJO I've turned down in six months.  I guess that means my resume is working, so that's something?

[Just_Me]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

Unfortunately, that's kind of how I'm leaning.  I also went back and looked at the job announcement and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the work.  This will have been the second TJO I've turned down in six months.  I guess that means my resume is working, so that's something?

If only our resumes could collect a paycheck.

On a more serious note... Why are you applying for TJOs if your family is not wanting to move?

[Sugaree]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

Unfortunately, that's kind of how I'm leaning.  I also went back and looked at the job announcement and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the work.  This will have been the second TJO I've turned down in six months.  I guess that means my resume is working, so that's something?

If only our resumes could collect a paycheck.

On a more serious note... Why are you applying for TJOs if your family is not wanting to move?

Because when I applied for it several months ago things were different.  My MIL's cancer has come back since then. 

[Just_Me]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

Unfortunately, that's kind of how I'm leaning.  I also went back and looked at the job announcement and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the work.  This will have been the second TJO I've turned down in six months.  I guess that means my resume is working, so that's something?

If only our resumes could collect a paycheck.

On a more serious note... Why are you applying for TJOs if your family is not wanting to move?

Because when I applied for it several months ago things were different.  My MIL's cancer has come back since then.

Understood. Hang in there.

[Sugaree]

It has also come to my attention that one of the medications that my husband relies on is actually illegal in Japan.  That makes the decision much easier. 

[elysianfields]

I got a TO for a job in Okinawa this morning.  Trying to figure out if it's feasible to take it.  It would be a promotion and I'd have return rights home (at the lower grade). But I'd have a family that's pretty not happy about having to move.  And sick in-laws who might not make it 2 years until we get back.

Sounds like it's not worth it.

Unfortunately, that's kind of how I'm leaning.  I also went back and looked at the job announcement and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the work.  This will have been the second TJO I've turned down in six months.  I guess that means my resume is working, so that's something?

If only our resumes could collect a paycheck.

On a more serious note... Why are you applying for TJOs if your family is not wanting to move?

Because when I applied for it several months ago things were different.  My MIL's cancer has come back since then.

Sorry to hear and hope she gets better soon.

[elysianfields]

So I don’t think we ever calculated the correct answer, it must be 42, right?

Or maybe that’s just the number of months I have left?

[elysianfields]

Resuscitating the thread to crow about my 37 months to go.

My partner and I enrolled in the Retirement Seminar for this summer since we're headed to the U.S. for home leave between tours.  Darned if FSI changed the format to virtual - a rather stupid move in my book as summer time is when many people come through DC during transfer season.  We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

FSI also offers a transition course called "Job Search Program" with four weeks of presentations, resume-polishing, and information.  After those four weeks, you get four more paid weeks with no work obligations - you're supposed to be starting your new business, applying for your next job, or whatever - and then you retire on the next day.  Many people find it very useful, especially the last four weeks ;-).  So I'm considering that as a last hurrah.

Edited to note that @ROF Expat also mentioned the JSP further upthread, though they call it the "long" retirement course.

[nouseforausername]

We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

If it's virtual, could you take it from anywhere without paying for lodging? https://www.state.gov/career-transition-center-ctc/

[Fomerly known as something]

Resuscitating the thread to crow about my 37 months to go.

My partner and I enrolled in the Retirement Seminar for this summer since we're headed to the U.S. for home leave between tours.  Darned if FSI changed the format to virtual - a rather stupid move in my book as summer time is when many people come through DC during transfer season.  We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

FSI also offers a transition course called "Job Search Program" with four weeks of presentations, resume-polishing, and information.  After those four weeks, you get four more paid weeks with no work obligations - you're supposed to be starting your new business, applying for your next job, or whatever - and then you retire on the next day.  Many people find it very useful, especially the last four weeks ;-).  So I'm considering that as a last hurrah.

I’m at 30 months so I “win” right?  Our retirement seminar went Virtual during COVID.  It’s probably the only reason I got in.  When it was in DC, there was only a few spots for out of town employees so those of outside DCA might not ever get into one.

[Loretta]

I'm at less than 5 years finally--now at 4.77 yrs or 58 months :)

[elysianfields]

We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

If it's virtual, could you take it from anywhere without paying for lodging? https://www.state.gov/career-transition-center-ctc/

The time zone difference makes that very challenging.  Most likely we'll take it during an R&R in the US, and since it counts as training we can probably snag per diem for it.

[nouseforausername]

We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

If it's virtual, could you take it from anywhere without paying for lodging? https://www.state.gov/career-transition-center-ctc/

The time zone difference makes that very challenging.  Most likely we'll take it during an R&R in the US, and since it counts as training we can probably snag per diem for it.

Random resource suggestion for Feds:
https://stwserve.com/webinars-and-seminars/webinars-for-federal-employees/

Might not work for your timezone, but that guy's webinar series is better than any retirement planning seminar / training I've had via my own ageny. (Disclaimer: I don't vouch for him / don't work for him of course.)

[elysianfields]

We're dropping the course - no point in our paying for lodging to take a virtual course.  We'll find another time to take it in-person.

If it's virtual, could you take it from anywhere without paying for lodging? https://www.state.gov/career-transition-center-ctc/

The time zone difference makes that very challenging.  Most likely we'll take it during an R&R in the US, and since it counts as training we can probably snag per diem for it.

Random resource suggestion for Feds:
https://stwserve.com/webinars-and-seminars/webinars-for-federal-employees/

Might not work for your timezone, but that guy's webinar series is better than any retirement planning seminar / training I've had via my own ageny. (Disclaimer: I don't vouch for him / don't work for him of course.)

Thanks for the links!  We'll see when we get to our onward assignment in Asia whether those times work.  Much appreciated!

[elysianfields]

Reviving this thread for a check-in.  We're still ~33 months from my years of service requirement.

I haven't discussed FEGLI at all and I feel it's an important topic for Federal retirees.

When I first joined the Foreign Circus, I provided the great majority of financial support to our family, so I set my FEGLI at Basic (1x my salary) + Option A (flat $10,000) + Option B at 5x my salary.  In the meantime, my salary has grown with promotions & step increases, our stash has grown considerably, and our children have successfully launched.  Consequently, our LI needs have reduced considerably.  At the same time, I've grown older, a mixed bag which includes rising FEGLI premium rates, reducing the value of the insurance.

With our reduced LI needs, I've cut my Option B multiples by 1x each year over the past three years, saving money with the reduced premiums.  Next year I plan to cut Option B to 1x, the following year I'll drop Option B completely, and my last year I'll drop Option A.  When I retire, I'll take the 75% reduction, which means my LI value drops to 25% of my final salary rounded up, but the premiums are free for the rest of my life.  One can also obtain Option A for free after age 65 with a reduction, but the premiums between my current age and 65 would rise greatly for a very small insurance benefit.

SECURE Act 2.0 brings important changes for Feds who participate in TSP, IRAs, and other retirement vehicles:

- Increase in the age for RMDs (ours go from 70.5 originally to 72 in SECURE Act 1.0 to 75 in SECURE Act 2.0);
- Elimination of the requirement for RMDs from Roth 401(k)s such as the TSP - this means we'll probably keep our Roth cash in TSP post-retirement;
- For persons who earned more than $145,000 with the employer a previous year, catch-up contributions must go to Roth TSP; currently one can direct catch-up contributions to deductible TSP.  This might affect me, we'll see; if it does, it probably makes sense to contribute some to Roth in any case, given our large deductible portion of our portfolio and limited opportunities for Roth conversions due to expected pensions.

[nouseforausername]

@elysianfields thanks for info.

There are some other resources for feds that might justify lower Life Insurance costs... FERs survivor benefit, Children's Survivor Benefit, Basic Employee Death Benefit (payouts to survivor 50% of high three salary plus an 'indexed amount' sort of bonus).

Kind of wild to see how much the estimated amounts of all those benefits are on my HR's benefits system.

[DeniseNJ]

Thanks for the update.  I have 5 years and one month!  I'm so happy.

I didn't know about the TSP catch up having to go in the Roth at some point. Good to know.

[sparkytheop]

When I retire, I'll take the 75% reduction, which means my LI value drops to 25% of my final salary rounded up, but the premiums are free for the rest of my life.  One can also obtain Option A for free after age 65 with a reduction, but the premiums between my current age and 65 would rise greatly for a very small insurance benefit.

Be aware that even with the 75% reduction, FEGLI will not be premium-free until you reach age 65.  You could be looking at paying a few thousand more for this (possibly unnecessary) life insurance before it becomes premium-free.

[elysianfields]

When I retire, I'll take the 75% reduction, which means my LI value drops to 25% of my final salary rounded up, but the premiums are free for the rest of my life.  One can also obtain Option A for free after age 65 with a reduction, but the premiums between my current age and 65 would rise greatly for a very small insurance benefit.

Be aware that even with the 75% reduction, FEGLI will not be premium-free until you reach age 65.  You could be looking at paying a few thousand more for this (possibly unnecessary) life insurance before it becomes premium-free.

Thanks @sparkytheop, you're correct of course, the FEGLI Handbook quotes the cost at $0.325 monthly per $1k of insurance coverage for 75% reduction basic before age 65.  Probably not worth it in our case, as I'm planning to bail several years before turning 65.

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m single.  I dropped FEGLI in 2008 because it’s unnecessary.  If I had gotten married I could have restated it due to change in life circumstances.

[frugalecon]

I’m single.  I dropped FEGLI in 2008 because it’s unnecessary.  If I had gotten married I could have restated it due to change in life circumstances.

When I was a young Fed, I compared FEGLI premiums to a 20-year term policy, which I felt was sufficient for my needs. FEGLI was FAR more expensive than what I could get on the open market.

[elysianfields]

I’m single.  I dropped FEGLI in 2008 because it’s unnecessary.  If I had gotten married I could have restated it due to change in life circumstances.

When I was a young Fed, I compared FEGLI premiums to a 20-year term policy, which I felt was sufficient for my needs. FEGLI was FAR more expensive than what I could get on the open market.

That's absolutely true, and we had about ten years left on a 15-year term when I joined DoS.  We kept it until the term ran out and the premiums jumped.

Living overseas with the Foreign Service made it damn near impossible to obtain term LI in the U.S. - nobody wants to underwrite the risk of us living in those scary foreign places, and everybody wanted a new physical - so we've kept FEGLI until now.  So far, FEGLI has won the bet, no complaints from me.

[elysianfields]

Another thread revival to check in, make updates, and ask for feedback.

In the 2026 Cohort thread I mentioned receiving a promotion effective late last year.  Since my pension is based on my "high three" - the highest three years of salary, usually the last three - it makes some sense to extend my work through 2026.  However, the increase isn't really significant enough to change my pension in a life-altering way, and certainly not a reason to stay after 2026.

OTOH, my spouse remains some months short of qualifying for a pension; despite the small payoff, it makes more sense for her to continue working enough to qualify for something as opposed to nothing.  This also plays into consideration of working OMY, and I'll drop that discussion for now.

Our rental house and long term tenants have provided excellent income and stability, and we're now needing to reinvest funds into some long-term maintenance which we almost entirely expected.  We're tapping our HELOC to cover this, as well as some personal and medical expenses.  Due to the rise in interest rates, we're paying a significant monthly interest bill, not all of which is tax-deductible.  At the same time, our investment portfolio has enlarged greatly, not only due to the latest market run-up, but also because we have fully funded our TSPs, HSAs, and Roth IRAs pretty much since starting my career in the FS.  In fact, I'm concerned enough about RMD-driven tax bills after age 75 that we've started converting Traditional IRA funds to Roth, and paying the 22% marginal Federal tax rate.

With just a few years remaining before ejecting, I'm considering cutting our TSP contributions to the minimum amount to obtain the full match in favor of deleveraging our balance sheet.  Our current HELOC interest rate barely exceeds the guideline in the Investment order thread for becoming investment priority #2.  The latest run-up in market values has me worried about CAPE levels, and I doubt to this above-LT-trend market performance can continue, making holding / increasing debt in exchange for lower expected portfolio returns a poor wager.

We currently hold no bonds in our portfolios since 1) our pensions will provide much of the income one expects from bonds, and on a partially inflation-adjusted basis; and 2) it makes no sense to invest in bonds while paying interest on debt (except for mortgages - we're firmly in the NPOYM club).

Upon retirement, we can access our retirement funds any time we wish, and we could easily wipe out the non-tax-deductible debt in one felled swoop.  In the meantime, I wonder whether paying some of it down provides some peace of mind and flexibility, and welcome others' thoughts.

Of interest to other Feds, TSP announced some months back that they'll implement the SECURE Act 2.0-required change to catch-up contributions beginning in 2026.  To recap what I wrote upthread, SECURE Act 2.0 requires employees who earned more than $145,000 (inflation-adjusted) in the previous tax year to have their catch-up contributions go to Roth instead of Traditional TSP.  Affected TSP participants can continue to direct their regular (non-catch-up) contributions to Roth or Traditional as they wish.  This wouldn't affect us anyway, as we've already started directing our contributions to Roth TSP in view of the RMD tax issue previously mentioned.

I continue to cut back my FEGLI level every year as described earlier.

How is everyone else doing on their countdown to MRA?

[sparkytheop]

I still have plans to stick it out until MRA, unless we are offered a VERA, and then I will take that once eligible.

However, I'm now in the position to defer my retirement if they decide to change my job up too much, to where I can no longer easily tolerate it.  If that happens, I might quit and never work again, I might seek out a "fun job" to help cover health insurance and be able to continue to contribute to retirement accounts, or I may seek out a different fed job I find more tolerable.  It would be hard to walk away from immediate pension and other benefits, but some things are worth more.

[frugalecon]

I have blown right on through my MRA, and am now targeting 60 for an unreduced pension. (I don’t have 30 years in the system, so I am not yet eligible for an unreduced pension.) It has really been a slog at times, but now with 193 actual work days to go, it feels achievable. It might have been harder w/o the COVID flexibilities.

[Monkey Uncle]

I've now been retired for 6+ years.  I'm still over a year away from MRA and my deferred pension.  Sure, I could have splurged a lot more if I had kept working, but I haven't regretted pulling the plug for a minute.

[elysianfields]

I still have plans to stick it out until MRA, unless we are offered a VERA, and then I will take that once eligible.

However, I'm now in the position to defer my retirement if they decide to change my job up too much, to where I can no longer easily tolerate it.  If that happens, I might quit and never work again, I might seek out a "fun job" to help cover health insurance and be able to continue to contribute to retirement accounts, or I may seek out a different fed job I find more tolerable.  It would be hard to walk away from immediate pension and other benefits, but some things are worth more.

I wish State would offer a VERA, but we're constantly short of IT staff.

I hear you, @sparkytheop  about walking away, and I'm so close to the finish line that I'll keep on keeping on.  As I've said elsewhere, I value the FEHB for life more than the pension itself.  How long to go if you stay on?

I have blown right on through my MRA, and am now targeting 60 for an unreduced pension. (I don’t have 30 years in the system, so I am not yet eligible for an unreduced pension.) It has really been a slog at times, but now with 193 actual work days to go, it feels achievable. It might have been harder w/o the COVID flexibilities.

Wow, @frugalecon you're much closer to the finish line than I.  You have, what, nine months to go?  You're almost there, you can make it!  What does your portfolio look like, have you hit your number?

I've now been retired for 6+ years.  I'm still over a year away from MRA and my deferred pension.  Sure, I could have splurged a lot more if I had kept working, but I haven't regretted pulling the plug for a minute.

Wow, that's amazing, @Monkey Uncle , glad to hear you have no regrets and made the best decision for you & yours.  What prompted your early exit, if you don't mind sharing?

[frugalecon]

I have blown right on through my MRA, and am now targeting 60 for an unreduced pension. (I don’t have 30 years in the system, so I am not yet eligible for an unreduced pension.) It has really been a slog at times, but now with 193 actual work days to go, it feels achievable. It might have been harder w/o the COVID flexibilities.

Wow, @frugalecon you're much closer to the finish line than I.  You have, what, nine months to go?  You're almost there, you can make it!  What does your portfolio look like, have you hit your number?

In calendar time I have a little over 11 months to go, but I may take the last month as leave, if I am ready.

Portfolio is in good shape, at 110% of target number, which is already fairly conservative. That is why I would feel comfortable just leaving now if I decide that is the right thing. But there is a pretty strong financial inducement to wait until 60, and my remaining leave and holidays amount to 25% of the remaining calendar days. It should be doable.

[DeniseNJ]

I've been counting down for years. lol.  I have just over 4 years left.  August 4, 2028 is my last day.  :) I've been resolute in that for years.  But to be honest, the closer it gets the more worried I get that it's not enough time.  Specifically my adult kids aren't launched yet and it's starting to feel like they never will be.  They have mental health issues.  OCD, Asperger's, ADHD, Anxiety, Depression, etc.  At 21 and 24, they take two college classes at a time and have never worked a day in their lives.  They also do nothing around the house or care for themselves in any way.  They're both in therapy, meds, etc., but I'm feeling like 4 years will come and go and they'll still be totally dependent on me.

All I want is to lie on a beach in Costa Rica.  I've never even been, but it's my number one fantasy.

Anyway, I never had a number in mind.  I always just figured I'd rather live in a studio apartment than work a day longer than I had to.  But the older my kids get, the more crowded that studio apartment is looking.

ETA:  To be clear, I adore my kids.  They are really sweet smart funny great people.  I'm just super worried about them.

[frugalecon]

I've been counting down for years. lol.  I have just over 4 years left.  August 4, 2028 is my last day.  :) I've been resolute in that for years.  But to be honest, the closer it gets the more worried I get that it's not enough time.  Specifically my adult kids aren't launched yet and it's starting to feel like they never will be.  They have mental health issues.  OCD, Asperger's, ADHD, Anxiety, Depression, etc.  At 21 and 24, they take two college classes at a time and have never worked a day in their lives.  They also do nothing around the house or care for themselves in any way.  They're both in therapy, meds, etc., but I'm feeling like 4 years will come and go and they'll still be totally dependent on me.

All I want is to lie on a beach in Costa Rica.  I've never even been, but it's my number one fantasy.

Anyway, I never had a number in mind.  I always just figured I'd rather live in a studio apartment than work a day longer than I had to.  But the older my kids get, the more crowded that studio apartment is looking.

ETA:  To be clear, I adore my kids.  They are really sweet smart funny great people.  I'm just super worried about them.

Denise,

Coincidentally, my first post-retirement trip will be two weeks in Costa Rica (which I also have never visited). This is a trip with some friends who are retiring at about the same time as me. (My spouse is already retired.)

Your situation with your kids sounds very daunting. I wonder if there are support groups or other resources to help parents in your situation. There must be online communities like MMM, too. To state the obvious, they will likely not be able to depend on your support forever, so it is really a question of when they will have no choice but to either live independently or rely on other resources. If you have four years before your planned retirement date, an overarching goal should perhaps be to ensure that they are at that point in their lives at that time. But I don’t have direct experience with this, so maybe that is just not realistic.

Good luck (and I hope you are getting some support around this yourself).

[elysianfields]

I've been counting down for years. lol.  I have just over 4 years left.  August 4, 2028 is my last day.  :) I've been resolute in that for years.  But to be honest, the closer it gets the more worried I get that it's not enough time.  Specifically my adult kids aren't launched yet and it's starting to feel like they never will be.  They have mental health issues.  OCD, Asperger's, ADHD, Anxiety, Depression, etc.  At 21 and 24, they take two college classes at a time and have never worked a day in their lives.  They also do nothing around the house or care for themselves in any way.  They're both in therapy, meds, etc., but I'm feeling like 4 years will come and go and they'll still be totally dependent on me.

All I want is to lie on a beach in Costa Rica.  I've never even been, but it's my number one fantasy.

Anyway, I never had a number in mind.  I always just figured I'd rather live in a studio apartment than work a day longer than I had to.  But the older my kids get, the more crowded that studio apartment is looking.

ETA:  To be clear, I adore my kids.  They are really sweet smart funny great people.  I'm just super worried about them.

Hi @DeniseNJ ,

Thanks for checking in.

Wow, tough one, and obviously everyone wants their children to do well.  It's great that they're getting help and taking two classes per semester, that's better than zero, and can they take baby steps, such as working retail or fast food a few hours a week?  Can you have them each take on one chore around the house to start?

I agree with frugalecon, it would behoove you all to develop a plan. Does your agency have an employee assistance program to help with these sorts of issues?  Does NJ have any resources that could help?

In the case of the FS, children who develop certain mental health issues before 18 or 19 (I forget) qualify for support under the Foreign Service Pension System when the employee retires, but I don't know whether that's available in FERS (assuming that's your defined benefit plan).

Wishing you courage as you consider next steps.

[economista]

My plan is to stay in service until MRA but that is super far down the road. I'm only 34. But, I already have 12 years of service and I've been a GS-13 for 5 years. I absolutely love my job and I wouldn't want to quit anytime soon anyway.