Author Topic: How I Live Well on $15K a Year  (Read 57317 times)

Retired To Win

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How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« on: September 30, 2014, 05:32:14 AM »
A lot of people prevent themselves from declaring financial independence because they think they need huge amounts of money to cover their basic living expenses.  I think many of those persons are missing the financial freedom boat by setting that number too high.  Yes, everyone has their own concept of what is a basic living expense.  But I think a great many people make inaccurately pessimistic assumptions (projections?) of what it is like to live on less.  And so chain themselves to an obligatory job when they do not actually have to.

A comfortable and secure lifestyle can very, very definitely be achieved without spending a fortune on it.  My basic living expense budget is $15,048 a year.  And I am perfectly happy with the kind of daily lifestyle I get for less than $1255 a month (which, by the way, is a lot MORE than even more frugal people find necessary to spend).  My case is just one more testimonial to the power and joy of modest expense (I won’t even call it frugal) living.

In fact, it is not my intent to show that I spend very little.  It is, after all not that  little.  Instead, I want to document by one more example (mine) how much you can have and do -- how good a daily life you can have -- on less money than most (middle class?) people have coming in.  To show that financial independence could be a lot closer than generally assumed.

The context of my basic daily lifestyle includes owning a large house on 2.5 acres of land located 5 miles from a small town and 25 miles from “the big city”… eating a modified paleo diet heavy on meats and vegetables and low on starches… driving a well maintained older vehicle… being free of an obligatory job and commute… and spending a lot of my time hiking, blogging, reading, taking video courses, doing hobby carpentry, watching DVD movies, playing computer strategy games, and listening to classical music.

I live very comfortably.  I enjoy my time on a daily basis free from an obligatory job.  And I do it on less than one third of my income.  Doing that does not feel to me like a big deal.

So why do so many people find this impossible (or unacceptable) to do?

My Budget Big Picture
That $15,048 a year basic living expense budget of mine works out to $1254 a month.  Of that sum, $397 goes to housing expenses, $185 to vehicle costs, $378 to health coverage, $244 to household expenditures, and $50 to federal and state income taxes.

My budget big picture also includes my wife, who pays for her share of our overall expenses.  If I factored her out of my calculations, and I had to pay the entire cost of our indivisible shared expenses (like mortgage), my monthly nut would go up by a net $34 to $1288 a month (or $15,456 a year).

That my go-it-alone costs would go up so little is something that we have already tested out to be true.

We own a smaller rental home on one acre of land that I have lived in by myself before.  If I were alone, I would live in that house.  From prior experience, my solo housing costs (lower mortgage, lower real estate taxes, lower utilities costs, etc) would then go up a net $34 a month.

My vehicle and health coverage costs would remain unchanged because they are already calculated on a solo basis for me and my 1996 Dodge Dakota.  And my household expenditures (food, etc) would not change either because their consumption would be proportional (half) to the number of people doing the consuming (1 instead of 2).

So, living with my wife or living alone, my basic living expenses would still be about $15,000 to $15,500 a year.

Given that, doesn’t $15,000 a year (per person?!) sound like a more than generous basic living expenses budget benchmark that anyone could apply if they made up their minds to do so?

My Housing and What It Costs Me
I share with my wife an 1800-square-feet single-story brick house with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, a full unfinished basement and an enclosed patio room that adds another 200 square feet to our living space.  The house sits on two-and-a-half acres of land, along with a detached two-car garage, a large 400-square-foot metal outbuilding, and a humongous 1000-square-foot pole barn (that my wife has converted into her rabbit-geese-chicken raising place).

If I were living alone, then I would be living in what is currently our rental house.  There I would have to myself 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, a living room and an eat-in kitchen in a 1000-square-foot single-story brick house.  I would also have a full unfinished basement, an attached oversized one-car garage with enough room for a workshop, plus 2 standard-sized sheds -- all on an acre of land less than 1 mile from a river boat landing and less than 3 miles from a magnificent state park with a very large number of hiking trails.

Either way, this is living in an owned home with ample space for me, lots of privacy and no in-my-face neighbors.  So, we are not talking about hovel living.

For either house, large down payments make the monthly mortgage low.  We keep the shared house at 78 degrees F in the summer and 72 degrees in the winter (though if left to myself I would be okay with 70 degrees in winter).  At the shared house, we pay for 2 Ooma phone lines, have a trash pickup service, and have satellite as our only (and expensive) internet option.  If I were alone at the smaller house, I would drop one phone line, do my own trash hauling to a nearby dump station, and enjoy better yet cheaper cable internet service.

So my monthly housing cost breaks down like this (shared house / solo house):
[]  $25K mortgage                   $114 shared, $112 solo
[]  tax and insurance escrow   $ 56 shared,  $121 solo
[]  trash service                       $ 14 shared,         0 solo
[]  home warranty                   $ 50 shared,     $50 solo
[]  internet service                   $ 45 shared,     $48 solo
[]  phone service                      $   5 shared,         0 solo
[]  utilities                                 $113 shared,  $100 solo

[]  TOTAL                                  $397 shared,  $431 solo

So either way, it takes around 400 bucks a month (give-or-take) for me to live in a comfortable house on a good piece of ground.

With the right choice of location and a serious down payment, couldn’t anyone do just as well or better?

My Vehicle and What It Costs Me
I think my most powerful budget-lowering tactic is my textbook Mustachian vehicle ownership strategy.  In my book too, a vehicle is for safe, reliable and comfortable transportation  of people and stuff.  Social status preening through one’s choice of vehicle is in no way a legitimate basic living expense.  So my vehicle is a 1996 Dodge Dakota extended-cab pickup that I have driven since 2003.  It is paid for, utterly reliable and totally practical. (I haul a lot of stuff.)

My monthly costs for that vehicle are as follows:
[]  insurance (top-of-the-line)  $   35
[]  maintenance (and repair)    $ 100
[]  fuel (for 300 basic miles)      $   50
[]  TOTAL                                   $ 185

(My wife drives and pays for a similarly thrifty 1998 all-wheel-drive Subaru Forester.)

Opting out of a new, fancy-schmanzy vehicle has drastically reduced my monthly outlay for installment payments (I have none), insurance (much cheaper to insure a $4K vehicle) and maintenance (simple systems mean simpler work).  AND my older non-status vehicle has reduced my magic FI stash number by about $150,000. (!!)

Ego stroking aside, what justification can there be for hardwiring the monthly costs of a series of late model status vehicles into one’s basic expense budget?  How can that be worth the many extra years it adds to reaching financial independence?

My Health Coverage and its Big Budget Bite
Making sure I am covered in case I get seriously sick accounts for a mind-boggling 30% of my basic living expenses.

I have opted for an insurance strategy that is front-loaded with out-of-pocket costs to a maximum of $2435 a year (which I've never come remotely close to), but then covers me 100% after that.  Because my out-of-pocket medical expenses are sporadic, very variable, somewhat optional and mostly theoretical, I pay for them -- if and when they happen -- out of discretionary funds.  So I don’t consider them part of my basic living expenses.

That leaves my monthly health coverage "sub-nut" looking like this:
[]  hospital and medical insurance    $ 158
[]  longterm care insurance               $ 188
[]  dental insurance                           $   17
[]  medications insurance                  $   15
[]  TOTAL                                           $ 378

On a budget percentage basis, that is 30% and still a big bite.  But affordable (to me).  Anyway, it is just about what the lease or installment payment would be on one of those late-model fancy-schmanzy vehicles I poke fun at.  :O

And isn’t being able to take care of one’s health way more important than vehicular ego preening?

And Here Is The Rest
The remaining $294 per month of basic living expenses that I lumped into "household expenditures" earlier in this post go primarily to "feeding."  Feeding myself a modified paleo diet that includes very few starches except for whole wheat bread for lunch sandwiches and rolled oats for breakfast oatmeal.  Feeding one dog and 2 cats on mixes of brand name dry and wet foods.  And feeding the kitchen, bathroom, laundry room, etc. with all the usual household consumables (paper towels, bath soap, cat litter, what have you).  All this feeding eats up $225 a month.  (I don’t break it down any further because it all gets purchased on the same register receipts at either WalMart, Food Lion or Dollar General and it’s not worth it to me to subcategorize these expenses.)

So the monthly basic expenses that I arbitrarily grouped as "household expenditures" tally up like this:
[]  food, pets and sundries   $225
[]  Sirius internet radio          $   2
[]  $1MM liability insurance    $   7
[]  federal income tax            $ 40*
[]  state income tax               $ 10*
[]  TOTAL                               $294

(* based on applying the standard deduction and exemption to the gross $15,500 required to meet my basic living expenses.)

I am well fed.  My pets are well fed.  And I never find myself lacking for anything.

It is all perfectly satisfactory basic living… wouldn’t you say?

The Bottom Line
I have detailed in this post my $15,500 annual basic living expenses as one more real-life testimonial to what is made possible by astute spending choices without making big sacrifices or a big effort.  Without having to grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk, ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, or any other unusual/special effort.

Take another look at my budget details.  I live in a spacious, comfortable house that is kept at a comfortable temperature using electricity and gas.  I drive a comfortable, reliable and well-maintained vehicle.  I drive around like a clown to do everything; I don’t ram my bike through snowdrifts or use it to haul refrigerators.  I eat great (store-bought) food.  I keep pets.  I am insured up the wazoo against anything and everything.  I lack for nothing.

The point is NOT that $15,500 is very frugal (because it really isn’t).  The point is that it doesn’t have to take much more than that to have a comfortable middleclass life, that it is not a big effort to get expenses down -- and that you can then direct the balance of your income to wiping out your debt or building your (early?) retirement stash.  You can apply your (newly found!) surplus income to reaching financial independence!

I did that.  Covered my basic living expenses with 32% of my gross paycheck.  Paid off all the installment debts.  Built up a stash that’s invested to yield 160% to 200% of that $15,500 living expenses nut of mine.
And, since I know I am not a financial genius, I know this IS DOABLE by almost anyone.  Without making any big deal sacrifices.

Now, I am financially independent and job-free. And, yes, I still cover my basic living expenses with one-third of my (now passive) income.  So, since the debts are paid off and the stash is built, I have more than ample money for my "want to" activities and purchases.

For me, a modest yet still middleclass comfortable basic lifestyle has been a win-win all the way.

And It can be a win-win for anyone, right?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 10:00:45 AM by Retired To Win »

hdatontodo

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 06:10:40 AM »
Sounds like you have a good arrangement. I take it you don't have a lot of out of pocket medical costs.

In our case, we still have the house to pay off, more to save for the kid's college expenses, and my wife is on both her and my health insurance due to many Dr visits.

Louisville

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 06:24:40 AM »
I'd love to see your expenses broken down.

TurtleMarkets

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 07:46:55 AM »
Awesome work. Where does your 15K a year come from?
It makes me wonder how some people can live on 15K happy and others are near starving. I guess it planning and goals.

Captain and Mrs Slow

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 08:13:12 AM »
This is something that greatly interest me as we are considering twking a buyout (if it's offered) next yea. Done properly my wife will leave the coporate world at 52 for part time work. Been questioning a friend who lives here in Munich very expensive place to live and her net income is about 1300€ a month and owns a car. She doens't have much but has never gone without

Anyways A budget overview would be helpful, for most people the biggest issue is either student debt (or equvlant) or mortgage rent. Fir example Single Mom Journey spends 1600 a month on rent. Your numbers do sound reasonable for a single or childless couple living in a low cost atea.





MayDay

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 09:06:20 AM »
Is that just for you? We have four people and spend less than four times what you do.

oinkette

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 09:19:55 AM »
Does this include a mortgage?   Part of my FIRE plan is to pay off the mortgage and student loans. Once I'm there I could easily live on 15K.  Right now with housing and student loans I still spend hundreds less than $2K a month (varies depending on when non monthly expenses are due).  Almost half of this is for the mortgage and student loan.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 10:46:58 AM »
Yea 15k is definitely easily doable imo.  I'd like to see a budget breakdown as well though, I'm always interested in others low-budget living.  Is this just your expenses?  Do you live alone?  No kids I imagine?

3 years ago before moving out to California, my yearly living expenses were $12k.  I was living with my gf who's expenses were the same.  We were very far from deprived.  We were renting a 2 bedroom house on a quiet street.  We both had a car/truck.  I had two motorcycles.  We ate healthily.  Went out drinking with friends every once in a while (most of our alcohol consumption was from homemade beer and wine though).  We got out of town often to visit friends and family, go camping, etc.  We were a pretty good definition of frugality by spending on only what matters.  No cable, $20 internet, electricity bills ran about $25, had a clothes line and garden, dumb phones, etc.

I say this all in the past tense because since moving out west we both deserve a pretty good pummeling, but we're working on pulling in the reigns after a couple years of planned living it up.  I still use our Ohio expenses as an estimate of our FI number since we're not going to be retiring out here.

If you think about the MMM budget of $25k or so, they're at about $8k/yr per person with their son, so even my $12k/yr for me is excessive in comparison, and your $15k is just uncalled for ;-P

surfhb

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 11:36:20 AM »
That's great!   Not for everyone but it's great nonetheless

mpg350

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 03:19:04 PM »
A lot of people prevent themselves from declaring financial independence because they think they need huge amounts of money to cover their basic living expenses.  I think many of those persons are missing the financial freedom boat by setting that number too high.  Yes, everyone has their own concept of what is a basic living expense.  But I think a great many people make inaccurately pessimistic assumptions (projections?) of what it is like to live on less.  And so chain themselves to an obligatory job when they do not actually have to.

A comfortable and secure lifestyle can very, very definitely be achieved without spending a fortune on it.  My basic living expense budget is $14,880 a year.  And I am perfectly happy with the kind of daily lifestyle I get for less than $1250 a month (which, by the way, is a lot MORE than even more frugal people find necessary to spend).  My case is just one more testimonial to the power and joy of modest expense (I won’t even call it frugal) living.

The context of my basic daily lifestyle includes owning a large house on 2.5 acres of land located 5 miles from a small town and 25 miles from “the big city”… eating a modified paleo diet heavy on meats and vegetables and low on starches… driving a well maintained older vehicle… being free of an obligatory job and commute… and spending a lot of my time hiking, blogging, reading, taking video courses, doing hobby carpentry, watching DVD movies, playing computer strategy games, and listening to classical music.

I live very comfortably.  I enjoy my time on a daily basis free from an obligatory job.  And I do it on less than one third of my income.  Doing that does not feel to me like a big deal.

So why do so many people find this impossible (or unacceptable) to do?

I am going to guess your home is paid for and your retired?



RetireAbroadAt35

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 03:43:24 PM »
So why do so many people find this impossible (or unacceptable) to do?

I dunno about others ... but in my case:

I could retire now and generate ~$15k in passive income.  But barely.  That said, I've chosen a higher number for a few reasons:
  • My monthly income needs to account for housing.  I'm a meandering, wandering traveling bum with no mortgage or fixed address (this is part of my savings strategy as well as part of my nature).
  • Because I'm a meanding, wandering traveling bum I've seen a lot of "financial corpses" from people who thought they'd drop out early and open a beach bar or "consult" over the internet.  I don't want to fall into that trap.
  • I've always wandered, or gravitated, towards work/fun opportunities, wherever they may be.  To a certain extent I will keep that up in FIRE so travel/housing will be a factor.
  • I have close family in various parts of the country that I want to be able to visit.
[li]I want to be able to live in moderate->high CoL areas if possible
[/li][/list]

Basically, I'm strongly driven acquiring flexibility.  It's hard to figure out where to draw the line, but I've basically budgeted a few different lifestyles to come up with the monthly number I expect to hit.  For me, that's just shy of $3k a month. 

Could I do it for less?  Certainly, if my priorities were to shift.  My goal is to get my free time back, but if that became urgent, I'd FIRE today and just head for Latin America, Asia or eastern/central Europe.

Spartana

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 04:41:46 PM »
I live on about the same amount and find it very doable in my circumstances (paid off house with low prop taxes, no debt, no kids, divorced, free medical, most hobbies and activities free).  My basic expenses are around $500 - $700/month and I get a government pension of approx. $1400/month - of which only part is taxable so pay no income taxes.

Breakdown looks sort of like this on average:

utilities - $100
food - $100
house taxes/insurance - $100
gas for car - $50
car reg. and insurance - $150 (new car but was only about $50/month before that)

and the rest goes as needed for travel, any unexpected house or car repairs and maintenance or other expenses like gifts, entertainment, gym, dog care, clothes, fun stuff.
 ETA: I live in coastal SoCal so utilities are really low (no need to heat or cool most of the year) and I can ride my bike year round. Helps lower expenses and also means I don't have to replace things like the car as often.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 04:52:04 PM by Spartana »

MoneyCat

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 06:11:35 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.

Daisy

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 06:20:29 PM »
Ain't ever going to happen for me unless I move away from family and friends.

I live in a high cost of living area. I have a paid off condo, but still spend $4k on property taxes and $6k on HOA (which includes some utilities and building insurance). I do live close to the beach as well. Once FIREd, I can have a somewhat car-free life during the week when I do my own thing. But my city is so spread out and hot and humid most of the year that being car-free would be a major lifestyle deflator that I am not willing to take.

So just $10k on a paid off home means I'm never going to make it on $15k. If I ever decide to move it might be more doable, but my family and social life would greatly suffer.

I can probably get by on $10k + $15k for everything else. But that may not include health insurance premiums or travel or any contingency planning or charity donations or income taxes. I don't think car and house fixes and health expenses should be considered "unexpected expenses" as they should be expected at some point in time. That's what I don't get with these bare bones budgets some people put out. I don't think they are realistic if they don't include these other costs.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:22:03 PM by Daisy »

Spartana

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 07:01:23 PM »


I can probably get by on $10k + $15k for everything else. But that may not include health insurance premiums or travel or any contingency planning or charity donations or income taxes. I don't think car and house fixes and health expenses should be considered "unexpected expenses" as they should be expected at some point in time. That's what I don't get with these bare bones budgets some people put out. I don't think they are realistic if they don't include these other costs.
In my case I not only have a fairly high emergency fund to cover tings if needed, but I also include things like potential future "unexpected expenses" as well as travel in my monthly savings rate. Since my income is about 2 times greater then my basic living expenses each month, I put aside the extra money for any extras that come up. I don't budget for a particular thing (travel or a repairs or whatever) or put a specific amount of money aside for each individual thing, it just goes into the bank account in a lump and I spend it when and if needed. Since I have no idea what will happen, when it will happen, or how much I'll need for those things, I just keep the extra income handy for the "what if's".  So if my income is $1400/month and I only spend $500 or so a month on basic needs, then I bank the extra $900 for future expenses - be that travel or repairs or whatever arises.  So emergencies and travel expenses are accounted and available form my income stream if needed/wanted at some future point. Because I also consider travel a "want" and not a "need", I don't account for it part of my daily living expenses since I would only travel if I have the extra income or savings to do that. If I didn't and had to just live on $500 - $700/month I could happily do that - with an emergency fund for any needed and unexpected stuff.

Spartana

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2014, 07:07:29 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

TurtleMarkets

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2014, 07:49:08 PM »
I live on about the same amount and find it very doable in my circumstances (paid off house with low prop taxes, no debt, no kids, divorced, free medical, most hobbies and activities free).  My basic expenses are around $500 - $700/month and I get a government pension of approx. $1400/month - of which only part is taxable so pay no income taxes.

Breakdown looks sort of like this on average:

utilities - $100
food - $100
house taxes/insurance - $100
gas for car - $50
car reg. and insurance - $150 (new car but was only about $50/month before that)

and the rest goes as needed for travel, any unexpected house or car repairs and maintenance or other expenses like gifts, entertainment, gym, dog care, clothes, fun stuff.
 ETA: I live in coastal SoCal so utilities are really low (no need to heat or cool most of the year) and I can ride my bike year round. Helps lower expenses and also means I don't have to replace things like the car as often.

100/month for food? That is the most impressive part to me. I eat around that per week

Beric01

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2014, 08:04:23 PM »
I live on about the same amount and find it very doable in my circumstances (paid off house with low prop taxes, no debt, no kids, divorced, free medical, most hobbies and activities free).  My basic expenses are around $500 - $700/month and I get a government pension of approx. $1400/month - of which only part is taxable so pay no income taxes.

Breakdown looks sort of like this on average:

utilities - $100
food - $100
house taxes/insurance - $100
gas for car - $50
car reg. and insurance - $150 (new car but was only about $50/month before that)

and the rest goes as needed for travel, any unexpected house or car repairs and maintenance or other expenses like gifts, entertainment, gym, dog care, clothes, fun stuff.
 ETA: I live in coastal SoCal so utilities are really low (no need to heat or cool most of the year) and I can ride my bike year round. Helps lower expenses and also means I don't have to replace things like the car as often.

100/month for food? That is the most impressive part to me. I eat around that per week

Sounds like you need to post a case study!

I do around $150/month for food right now, and I know specifically where I need to improve my food costs, and am taking active steps in that direction.

Back to the OP: right now I'm doing ~20K/ year, over half of which is my studio apartment. My current plan after my lease ends is to try to rent a room for around $500-$600/month (my area is crazy expensive). Then I will have:

rent: $600
food: $150
bike: $50
Entertainment: $100
Vacation: $200 (lets me do one "cheap" international vacation a year)
Misc: $100
Total: $1200
x12 months =$14400/yr.


Yes, not having a car saves a LOT.

My "cutting back" monthly budget would be:

rent: $500
food: $100
bike: $50
Entertainment: $50
Vacation: 0 (paying for vacation is admittedly optional)
Misc: $50
Total: $750
x12 months =$9000/yr.


Now I can see how ERE is possible! And imagine what I could do in a cheaper COL city where renting a room would be $300 or less.

mpg350

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2014, 08:14:38 PM »
$100 a month on food I don't see how that is possible.  Unless you eat Ramen Noodles every other night.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2014, 08:15:37 PM »
I do around $150/month for food right now, and I know specifically where I need to improve my food costs, and am taking active steps in that direction.

Back to the OP: right now I'm doing ~20K/ year, over half of which is my studio apartment. My current plan after my lease ends is to try to rent a room for around $500-$600/month (my area is crazy expensive). Then I will have:

rent: $600
food: $150
bike: $50
Entertainment: $100
Vacation: $200 (lets me do one "cheap" international vacation a year)
Misc: $100
Total: $1200
x12 months =$14400/yr.


Yes, not having a car saves a LOT.

My "cutting back" monthly budget would be:

rent: $500
food: $100
bike: $50
Entertainment: $50
Vacation: 0 (paying for vacation is admittedly optional)
Misc: $50
Total: $750
x12 months =$9000/yr.


Now I can see how ERE is possible! And imagine what I could do in a cheaper COL city where renting a room would be $300 or less.

If you got your COL down to $9k/yr out here I would be super impressed and jealous.  Even your extravagant 14.4 I would love to hit.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 08:18:03 PM »
$100 a month on food I don't see how that is possible.  Unless you eat Ramen Noodles every other night.

That was my food budget in Ohio 3 years ago.  It didn't include alcohol, which was $50.  It definitely wasn't difficult and we ate well.  Not much red meat, but I'd buy a lot of whole chickens at .69/lb and get several meals out of them.  Gardening helped but I still wouldn't go over budget in off season.  We had a deep freezer and would buy extra veggies in season and freeze.

mpg350

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 08:21:32 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

$10 for electricity ha, a small house in Florida is going to avg alone $80-90.


mpg350

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2014, 08:24:15 PM »
$100 a month on food I don't see how that is possible.  Unless you eat Ramen Noodles every other night.

That was my food budget in Ohio 3 years ago.  It didn't include alcohol, which was $50.  It definitely wasn't difficult and we ate well.  Not much red meat, but I'd buy a lot of whole chickens at .69/lb and get several meals out of them.  Gardening helped but I still wouldn't go over budget in off season.  We had a deep freezer and would buy extra veggies in season and freeze.

 
Yeah I need to try that with the whole chickens, takes longer to get them ready but they are much cheaper than the cuts of chicken at the store.

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2014, 08:30:27 PM »
If you got your COL down to $9k/yr out here I would be super impressed and jealous.  Even your extravagant 14.4 I would love to hit.

Yeah, my main issue is the vacations. It's spending an extravagant $2.5K a year (almost 20% of my planned budget). But a big goal of mine upon FIRE is to move to a foreign country, so I think I should at least get a feel for the rest of the world pre-FIRE. Who knows, maybe I'll get tired of the international travel every year after a few more years and stick with domestic vacation until FIRE.

$100 a month on food I don't see how that is possible.  Unless you eat Ramen Noodles every other night.

That was my food budget in Ohio 3 years ago.  It didn't include alcohol, which was $50.  It definitely wasn't difficult and we ate well.  Not much red meat, but I'd buy a lot of whole chickens at .69/lb and get several meals out of them.  Gardening helped but I still wouldn't go over budget in off season.  We had a deep freezer and would buy extra veggies in season and freeze.

Chicken is indeed a great deal.

Right now I'm able to live on $5 a day for food (5*30 days = $150/month). That's a $1 breakfast (some sort of bread item), $2 lunch (2 meat/cheese sandwiches, yoghurt, and a banana) and $2 dinner (either I cook on the weekend to last the week, or I scrounge for whatever I can find at my place). No cost for drinks, as I prefer water.

I know I can cut back breakfast, lunch and dinner costs to almost half of current by cooking more, and am currently working on improving my skills in this area. I get some sort of fruit and vegetables daily, which is WAY healthier than I was eating before (mainly fast food). I see no value in organic and refuse to buy such products. If I bought organic my costs would increase at least 50%.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:33:16 PM by Beric01 »

Daisy

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2014, 08:35:20 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

$10 for electricity ha, a small house in Florida is going to avg alone $80-90.

Maybe I can finally compete on expenses now.

I live in Florida and used to spend on average $70-90 in the summer and $50-60 during the rest of the year. That was at a house with a new air conditioner and refrigerator. It was a little higher before the new appliances.

Now that I'm in a condo I am spending much less. About $25 (well only hit that in March while I was away for two weeks) or $40 in the non-summer months, and now in the summer about $50-60. Of course, my building pays for external electricity such as lights and stuff.

But there's no way I can get to $100 per month for food. I go all out in organic produce and eggs (mostly CSA), limit my meat intake (a few times a week), can buy freshly caught fish at the local pier at a much better price than the supermarket, and splurge on nuts (nutty me). I avoid most processed foods and breads (so don't eat sandwiches...a lot of salads). I can do about $200-250 for one person. The last few months have been a little higher because I decided to try that boxed wine stuff (thanks a lot MMM...) and some beer. I'm pretty happy with this amount.

I notice Beric's and Spartana's budgets don't include health insurance or expenses. I don't usually think of it either as it gets taken out of my paycheck, but it's still a cost.

And I'm not sure how $200/month on an international trip works out, as most international flights now can go for $1000-$1500, so that doesn't leave much for the rest of the trip. I guess there's travel hacking which I haven't done much (except for using frequent flyer miles). That's about what I spend on my annual ski trip, and I take other trips throughout the year. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:39:16 PM by Daisy »

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2014, 08:56:12 PM »
But there's no way I can get to $100 per month for food. I go all out in organic produce and eggs (mostly CSA), limit my meat intake (a few times a week), can buy freshly caught fish at the local pier at a much better price than the supermarket, and splurge on nuts (nutty me). I avoid most processed foods and breads (so don't eat sandwiches...a lot of salads). I can do about $200-250 for one person. The last few months have been a little higher because I decided to try that boxed wine stuff (thanks a lot MMM...) and some beer. I'm pretty happy with this amount.

Sounds like this is your luxury (just as mine is travel). I eat fruits and vegetables and I don't eat fast food anymore. I just see marginal (if any) health benefit in organic and a LOT of added cost. And people worry too much about "processed" foods and carbs, IMO.

I notice Beric's and Spartana's budgets don't include health insurance or expenses. I don't usually think of it either as it gets taken out of my paycheck, but it's still a cost.

I currently have no health insurance costs, as I'm on my parents' plan until age 26 (no cost to them - I have other younger siblings). I'm still looking for some way to purchase some sort of an ultra-high deductible plan (i.e. $25K+ detectible) and dodge the Obamacare requirement of a plan that includes more coverage. This will need to last me from age 26 until my early 30's. After I FIRE, my income will be low enough to get subsidies, and/or I will be leaving the country and thus not be subject to the requirement. My current health costs are nothing other than that I try to go to an annual check-up. I have a lot of savings so I can cover a very high deductible.

And I'm not sure how $200/month on an international trip works out, as most international flights now can go for $1000-$1500, so that doesn't leave much for the rest of the trip. I guess there's travel hacking which I haven't done much (except for using frequent flyer miles). That's about what I spend on my annual ski trip, and I take other trips throughout the year. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Cheap hotels (I have almost no standards as long as it is sanitary), cheap food, cheap/free entertainment. Sometimes I get the company to cover my flight due to a business trip. I also have some friends abroad. You can do credit cards to get frequent flyer miles. There's a lot of ways to make international travel cheap.

One reason I'm so interested in this stuff is that I had only been to Canada prior to graduating from college. My family is very frugal and we never flew on a vacation. But it really is a luxury I can do without. I need to re-run my FIRE date numbers with and without vacation.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:58:43 PM by Beric01 »

Daisy

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2014, 09:11:36 PM »
But there's no way I can get to $100 per month for food. I go all out in organic produce and eggs (mostly CSA), limit my meat intake (a few times a week), can buy freshly caught fish at the local pier at a much better price than the supermarket, and splurge on nuts (nutty me). I avoid most processed foods and breads (so don't eat sandwiches...a lot of salads). I can do about $200-250 for one person. The last few months have been a little higher because I decided to try that boxed wine stuff (thanks a lot MMM...) and some beer. I'm pretty happy with this amount.

Sounds like this is your luxury (just as mine is travel). I eat fruits and vegetables and I don't eat fast food anymore. I just see marginal (if any) health benefit in organic and a LOT of added cost. And people worry too much about "processed" foods and carbs, IMO.

Yes, the organic stuff is my luxury. I do it somewhat for health reasons and for food snobbery reasons as the produce tastes so much better.

As far as the processed foods, I really have to avoid that as I used to have a bad skin condition that gets exacerbated with chemicals and food additives. I also try to avoid wheat - not totally gluten free - but partly also for trying to maintain my weight. I'm not a big pasta eater. It never appealed to me much tastewise and it's not good for my waistline.

I notice Beric's and Spartana's budgets don't include health insurance or expenses. I don't usually think of it either as it gets taken out of my paycheck, but it's still a cost.

I currently have no health insurance costs, as I'm on my parents' plan until age 26 (no cost to them - I have other younger siblings). I'm still looking for some way to purchase some sort of an ultra-high deductible plan (i.e. $25K+ detectible) and dodge the Obamacare requirement of a plan that includes more coverage. This will need to last me from age 26 until my early 30's. After I FIRE, my income will be low enough to get subsidies, and/or I will be leaving the country and thus not be subject to the requirement. My current health costs are nothing other than that I try to go to an annual check-up. I have a lot of savings so I can cover a very high deductible.

I don't have a lot of health care costs either (not bad for a 45 year old American!), as I am on a great corporate plan. I do go to the chiropractor (yes, it's helped me a lot) and occasionally go to some holistic practitioners (acupuncture, massage, etc.). As a 45 year old, I've learned this stuff helps me. I try to avoid regular western medicine as it seems like a racket and a pill dispensing forum and doesn't really solve my chronic problems. So regular insurance is almost a waste of money to me, but what to do when this is what we are required to get. I'd love to find a high deductible catastrophic plan when I am FIREd.

And I'm not sure how $200/month on an international trip works out, as most international flights now can go for $1000-$1500, so that doesn't leave much for the rest of the trip. I guess there's travel hacking which I haven't done much (except for using frequent flyer miles). That's about what I spend on my annual ski trip, and I take other trips throughout the year. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Cheap hotels (I have almost no standards as long as it is sanitary), cheap food, cheap/free entertainment. Sometimes I get the company to cover my flight due to a business trip. I also have some friends abroad. You can do credit cards to get frequent flyer miles. There's a lot of ways to make international travel cheap.

One reason I'm so interested in this stuff is that I had only been to Canada prior to graduating from college. My family is very frugal and we never flew on a vacation. But it really is a luxury I can do without. I need to re-run my FIRE date numbers with and without vacation.

Great travel hacking! I'm sure during FIRE my travel cost per day will go way down when I can travel mid week, stay at long term places, and may have to travel alone so I can pick cheaper places. My travel companions are usually much more spendy than me, so I do my best to tame them down cost-wise but it ends up being a compromise. If I was too dead-set on just saving money, I fear I'd be travelling alone a lot as they wouldn't go for the really cheap options. I need some new travel partners!

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2014, 09:42:29 PM »
$100 a month on food I don't see how that is possible.  Unless you eat Ramen Noodles every other night.
well I don't eat meat and don't buy organic so that keeps costs down. I buy stuff at the .99 cents only store  a lot http://99only.com/ - including fresh fruits and veggies, Costco in bulk for dry stuff as well as fresh and frozen fruits and veggies, and paper goods like TP, lots of rice and beans and frozen veggies and fruit, oatmeal, coffee, yogurts, tofu based meals - for example tonight's veggie burger probably cost less then 50 cents for everything. The list goes on and on. $25/week can go pretty far for a single person.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:03:59 PM by Spartana »

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 09:45:37 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

$10 for electricity ha, a small house in Florida is going to avg alone $80-90.
Oh the cost of A/C :-)! Which I don't have.

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 09:58:33 PM »
I notice Beric's and Spartana's budgets don't include health insurance or expenses. I don't usually think of it either as it gets taken out of my paycheck, but it's still a cost.

And I'm not sure how $200/month on an international trip works out, as most international flights now can go for $1000-$1500, so that doesn't leave much for the rest of the trip. I guess there's travel hacking which I haven't done much (except for using frequent flyer miles). That's about what I spend on my annual ski trip, and I take other trips throughout the year. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

I gave up buying health insurance and just plan to use the VA Medical Centers if needed (but don't plan to need them except in an emergency). I didn't qualify for subsidies and my private insurance costs rose way too high with the ACA so am going this route for now. I know my expenses seem low - and they are mainly because I have free/low cost health insurance, a paid for house with low taxes, and not much in the way of other expenses - but I have been living at this expense level for my all my basic stuff (not counting travel)  since I first retired more than 10 years ago. My basic expenses have remained about the same - actually less because I don't have as many pet expenses. If I take travel or potential emergency expenses that may, or may not, arise at some point in my life out of the picture I could live a nice life on about $500 - $700/month. Of course my version of "a nice life" probably wouldn't be for everyone although I enjoy it and certainly don't feel deprived. And while I could live on about $6000 - $8000 per year very easily, I have a pension that pays double that so do have the extra income to pay for more luxuries and travel (or medical insurance again if I choose that) plus a healthy stash to draw from if needed or wanted as well as a house in a HCOL area I plan to downsize soon.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:08:38 PM by Spartana »

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 10:13:16 PM »
Great travel hacking! I'm sure during FIRE my travel cost per day will go way down when I can travel mid week, stay at long term places, and may have to travel alone so I can pick cheaper places. My travel companions are usually much more spendy than me, so I do my best to tame them down cost-wise but it ends up being a compromise. If I was too dead-set on just saving money, I fear I'd be travelling alone a lot as they wouldn't go for the really cheap options. I need some new travel partners!

I actually really enjoyed my vacation in Japan while traveling alone for the first time. Traveling alone gives you a totally different perspective, particularly in a country that does not speak English much at all. You're forced to interact with the locals and use a little of their language, rather than just talking with your friends (not that I don't enjoy that, but it's different). You can also just listen to your surrounding environment and notice a lot of things. It's a lot like an "adventure", as you're literally on your own in a foreign country. :-)

And yes, there's the added ability of choosing cheap places and activities, and also being able to stay as long or as short as you want at a place.

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 10:30:19 PM »
  I need some new travel partners!
Waving franticly in the corner :-)! Have you thought of doing a full time travel thing? Getting rid of the house (and the expense of the high Prop taxes and HOA dues) and just use that money (from prop taxes and HOA and utilities and insurance not the actual "house money - invest that to buy another place later) to travel everywhere you want, for as long as you want, until you are ready to settle down again? Or renting your place out to cover those expenses while you're gone? This is one way to budget travel without having to be too budget conscience since you aren't having to pay for 2 places at the same time. It's pretty much what I plan to do soon and have been seriously checking out lots of long term off season vacation rentals in various places in the USA (can't go overseas because I bring the dog with me). Lots of nice places fairly cheap if you can commit to longer stays.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:32:11 PM by Spartana »

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 10:56:43 PM »
  I need some new travel partners!
Waving franticly in the corner :-)! Have you thought of doing a full time travel thing? Getting rid of the house (and the expense of the high Prop taxes and HOA dues) and just use that money (from prop taxes and HOA and utilities and insurance not the actual "house money - invest that to buy another place later) to travel everywhere you want, for as long as you want, until you are ready to settle down again? Or renting your place out to cover those expenses while you're gone? This is one way to budget travel without having to be too budget conscience since you aren't having to pay for 2 places at the same time. It's pretty much what I plan to do soon and have been seriously checking out lots of long term off season vacation rentals in various places in the USA (can't go overseas because I bring the dog with me). Lots of nice places fairly cheap if you can commit to longer stays.

Yes, that's an option in the future. I think I read someone on these forums suggest such a thing and it sounded interesting. She was some kind of goddess or something...I can't remember now who that was. ;-)

But for right now that is not feasible as I still have a job and also need to help my parents a bit as they are in their 80s, can't drive, and need help almost every weekend. They are freaking out right now because I am about to be away for three weekends - on not too expensive of a vacation involving a week of bicycling, a week rental in an expensive metropolis that I got for a decent price (thanks to going for a week vs. a few days), etc.

I do realize I live in an extravagant area. But honestly, it's a newly gentrifying area. I got my place for a steal (relatively speaking), and am sure in about 5-10 years this area will be a lot more expensive. It's a great place to live, but I can surely downsize if I want to and live in a less expensive part of Florida while FIREd. My condo is one of my safety margins.

And this recent move has me questioning owning a house a lot. But right now it's working fine and I'd want to enjoy it a little bit post-FIRE.

I have travelled only a little bit on my own. I was stuck over a weekend in Fiji once as my free flight to Australia had a layover in Fiji so I decided to make a diving weekend of it. Unfortunately the dive was cancelled and the resort I stayed at was supposed to be good for diving and out in the boonies, so after a couple of days being alone was a little weird as I couldn't go out to explore much. But I was detoxing from spending three weeks with two lawyer friends that couldn't stop talking so the first few days of quiet were heaven.

Now that I'm a little older, I think I am more open to travelling alone. I found a place online that rents out for $1200/month in Colorado in ski season close to a really nice resort, but it wasn't available for next season. But I will check it out when I go for possibly the following season. I'd love to find places like this.

But I have friends that like to stay in the ski in/out places and refuse to stay just a little further out at places on the shuttle routes. It's so frustrating. My other travel partner is going to Europe to visit some family and since I couldn't go on the trip, she's complaining how expensive it's going to be for her. But then she tells me she's taking like a 2 hour limo from the airport to the place she's staying at because she was afraid of the large train station. Seriously, this is what I'm contending with.

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2014, 11:08:35 PM »
  I need some new travel partners!
Waving franticly in the corner :-)! Have you thought of doing a full time travel thing? Getting rid of the house (and the expense of the high Prop taxes and HOA dues) and just use that money (from prop taxes and HOA and utilities and insurance not the actual "house money - invest that to buy another place later) to travel everywhere you want, for as long as you want, until you are ready to settle down again? Or renting your place out to cover those expenses while you're gone? This is one way to budget travel without having to be too budget conscience since you aren't having to pay for 2 places at the same time. It's pretty much what I plan to do soon and have been seriously checking out lots of long term off season vacation rentals in various places in the USA (can't go overseas because I bring the dog with me). Lots of nice places fairly cheap if you can commit to longer stays.

Yes, that's an option in the future. I think I read someone on these forums suggest such a thing and it sounded interesting. She was some kind of goddess or something...I can't remember now who that was. ;-)

 
Yeah I think I know her :-)!

I also made the choice to stay around when my parents started to need help (both have passed away now) so know how that is. But having time off work is great - especially all the time you get - so that allows you to do both things without feeling guilty.

The nice thing about travelling alone, is that once you get use to it and feel comfortable, you really start to enjoy it. Sometimes it awkward, but mostly not. I just got back from a few weeks up in NorCal - just the mutt and I - and it was great.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 11:15:10 PM by Spartana »

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 01:07:42 PM »
This thread is a pleasant surprise. I thought I was the odd duck on this forum by living on 16,000 per year.  I haven't read many posts with a similar income level until now. Since it's not so unusual, it challenges me to look for ways to scrimp a bit and save even better.

Beric01

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 02:05:45 PM »
This thread is a pleasant surprise. I thought I was the odd duck on this forum by living on 16,000 per year.  I haven't read many posts with a similar income level until now. Since it's not so unusual, it challenges me to look for ways to scrimp a bit and save even better.

Have you read the ERE boards at all? My post on cutting housing costs got some attention. The MMM forums have been great for getting me to make the initial steps toward financial independence, but a lot of people are actually living pretty extravagant lifestyles here. :) I really want to make the next step towards frugality. I'm a big fan of positive peer pressure, so I may start frequenting the ERE boards. Wish they got more traffic though.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 02:38:31 PM »
This thread is a pleasant surprise. I thought I was the odd duck on this forum by living on 16,000 per year.  I haven't read many posts with a similar income level until now. Since it's not so unusual, it challenges me to look for ways to scrimp a bit and save even better.

You liked being the odd duck? ;-P

Have you read the ERE boards at all? My post on cutting housing costs got some attention. The MMM forums have been great for getting me to make the initial steps toward financial independence, but a lot of people are actually living pretty extravagant lifestyles here. :) I really want to make the next step towards frugality. I'm a big fan of positive peer pressure, so I may start frequenting the ERE boards. Wish they got more traffic though.

I'm not registered over on ERE but wanted to comment than living in a smaller RV in SJ outside of a trailer park is definitely doable.  You just need to find the spots.  I know there's one (or was 2 years ago when I lived there) over by Coleman/Hedding/Taylor on Spring St, a small side street.  It's at the edge of the airport, nothing really there since it's right in the landing path so the planes come right overhead, which I guess could be a turnoff but that's probably why no one cares that there are RVs (and homeless) there ;-)  There's another around 1st and Trimble, I think on Component drive, always semi's and RVs parked there.

Does your work have a big enough parking lot you could just set up there?  Depending on the company that may or may not be looked upon as weird.

Beric01

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 03:16:37 PM »
There's another around 1st and Trimble, I think on Component drive, always semi's and RVs parked there.

I bike down that street every day, and often see plenty of RV's parked there. :)

My main concern with switching to RV living without hookup is the risk. You have to deal with the fact that the RV is your only home. Ordinances (I need to research the details for San Jose) prohibit living in an RV on the streets, so I could be fined by the police at any time. I'm a pretty-low risk tolerance person, so that causes me a good deal of concern (I've never had any run-ins with the law in the past).

The other question is if RV living can beat renting a room for $500-$600? You have the up-front cost and depreciation. You have to factor in occasional septic tank dumps, ways to get electricity/internet, and a means of cooking food. And of course there's maintenance and gas costs (I don't need a car, but I probably would need to re-park my RV every now and then to maintain "stealth").

I have no issues with the concept of RV living in itself. I already scorn the social pressure of doing what is "proper". My family lives around 10 miles away so I can set that as my mailing address (they won't let me rent from them so I can be "independent", even though they do have a spare room). For work, I shower there and pack my lunch - so no "appearances" issues. For laundry, there's plenty of laundromats nearby.

I guess I'm just having trouble making the final "jump".

bacchi

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2014, 03:59:48 PM »
That $14,880 a year basic living expense budget of mine works out to $1240 a month.  Of that sum, $383 goes to housing expenses, $185 to vehicle costs, $378 to health coverage, $244 to household expenditures, and $50 to federal and state income taxes.

Is that cashflow or income? In other words, does the housing expenses include the eventual new roof, water heater, paint, etc.?

Thegoblinchief

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2014, 07:39:46 AM »
With the goblins, we currently spend $9K/yr/person, $7K/yr/person if you take SLs out of the equation, so I have no problem at all believing this. Yes those numbers include health insurance and housing.

Our retirement budget is more lavish (mainly travel) but is still under $15K/yr/person (no kids at that point).

Bob W

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2014, 07:45:27 AM »
Nice Thread!

Jon_Snow

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2014, 08:38:28 AM »
I have no doubt we COULD live on 15k but we have saved and invested "hair on fire style" for the past ten years so we don't have to. 30k annually let's us live the life we want with very few restrictions. The size of our Stache probably allows us to live larger, but it's not in our DNA. No kids, so we may be one of those crazy couples that leaves millions to our dog or cat. It would behove our nieces and nephews to be nice to us in our advanced years. ;)

Emilyngh

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2014, 08:55:06 AM »
Yeah, we spend about $10k per year per person ($30k per year for a household of 3) including health insurance ($6k per year for family), nice updated 2000 sq ft house on 2 acres, spendy grocery budget, lots of family activities, trips (inexpensive, but fun), occasional eating out, and events, etc. 

 I find it to an absolutely lavish budget and plan on downsizing our house in the next few years, which will cut it more.   Looking around, it actually seems to me that we live better than my peers (although they seem to spend twice as much).   

NinaNina

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2014, 09:16:00 AM »


In fact, it is not my intent to show that I spend very little.  It is, after all not that  little.  Instead, I want to document by one more example (mine) how much you can have and do -- how good a daily life you can have -- on less money than most (middle class?) people have coming in.  To show that financial independence could be a lot closer than generally assumed.

Yes, this is a wonderfully-worded sentiment. It demonstrates that living frugally is, in part, a frame of mind. We are not sacrificing anything of value (and are not bogged down by an excess of crap consumer objects with limited life expectancies) and our returns are so much more than financial--freedom.

Beric01

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2014, 03:41:31 PM »
I have no issues with the concept of RV living in itself...


If I had to live in an RV day after day, I do think I would have an issue with it.  Particularly since it costs me just a few hundred dollars a month to live in a non-small house on a good-sized piece of land.

I share with my wife an 1800-square-feet single-story brick house with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, a full unfinished basement and an enclosed patio room that adds another 200 square feet to our living space.  The house sits on two-and-a-half acres of land, along with a detached two-car garage, a large 400-square-foot metal outbuilding, and a humongous 1000-square-foot pole barn (that my wife has converted into her rabbit-geese-chicken raising place).

If I were living alone, then I would be living in what is currently our rental house.  There I would have to myself 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, a living room and an eat-in kitchen in a 1000-square-foot single-story brick house.  I would also have a full unfinished basement, an attached oversized one-car garage with enough room for a workshop, plus 2 standard-sized sheds -- all on an acre of land less than 1 mile from a river boat landing and less than 3 miles from a magnificent state park with a very large number of hiking trails.

Either way, this is living in an owned home with ample space for me, lots of privacy and no in-my-face neighbors.  So, we are not talking about hovel living.

For either house, large down payments make the monthly mortgage low.  We keep the shared house at 78 degrees F in the summer and 72 degrees in the winter (though if left to myself I would be okay with 70 degrees in winter).  At the shared house, we pay for 2 Ooma phone lines, have a trash pickup service, and have satellite as our only (and expensive) internet option.  If I were alone at the smaller house, I would drop one phone line, do my own trash hauling to a nearby dump station, and enjoy better yet cheaper cable internet service.

So my monthly housing cost breaks down like this (shared house / solo house):
[]  $25K mortgage                   $114 shared, $112 solo
[]  tax and insurance escrow   $ 56 shared,  $121 solo
[]  trash service                       $ 14 shared,         0 solo
[]  home warranty                   $ 50 shared,     $50 solo
[]  internet service                   $ 45 shared,     $48 solo
[]  phone service                      $   5 shared,         0 solo
[]  utilities                                 $113 shared,  $100 solo

[]  TOTAL                                  $397 shared,  $431 solo

So either way, it takes around 400 bucks a month (give-or-take) for me to live in a comfortable house on a good piece of ground.

With the right choice of location and a serious down payment, couldn’t anyone do just as well or better?

Great assessment for post-FIRE conditions. But perhaps you missed my point: I'm still in the accumulation phase. My income is maximized working where I am now, in one of the most expensive places in the world. My income would be halved moving somewhere else, and yet even if my rent were free elsewhere I'd save only $12K/year (not enough compensation for the salary loss). Side note: this is why I highly recommend living in expensive areas as a frugal person - you have a lot more salary with which to carefully minimize costs with.

My best option to expedite my FIRE date (after which I can move elsewhere) is to maximize my income while minimizing my expenses. Almost 2/3 of my monthly spending right now is housing costs, and that's living in a 250-square foot studio apartment. Finding a room to rent is nigh impossible. This is why I am seriously considering "boondocking" - living in an RV full-time without paying for a hookup. This is prohibited by San Jose city ordinance (you can't live on the streets here), hence my concerns. But I would be more than happy with 100 square feet (or less). All I need in living accommodations is:

  • Floor space to sleep (don't even need a bed - a futon is fine)
  • Some sort of cooking facilities (these help me cut meal costs)
  • A restroom (don't even need a shower since I have 24-hour access to one at work - just a toilet+sink)
  • Internet access of some sort (a data plan could work)
  • Some sort of way to slightly regulate temperature (cold is fine - I have blankets/coats and it never gets below 30 degrees F here, but heat is a concern)

An RV could more than fulfill these needs (I currently socialize with family/friends outside of my living quarters, so no concerns there). My only issue is safely living in an RV without paying fines.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2014, 04:09:13 PM »
Finding a room to rent is nigh impossible.

I found your solution:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/roo/4667916661.html

You just need to develop a drug/alcohol habit first, then riches are yours.

Beric01

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2014, 04:12:00 PM »
Finding a room to rent is nigh impossible.

I found your solution:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/roo/4667916661.html

You just need to develop a drug/alcohol habit first, then riches are yours.

Lol, already found that one. :D

I'm afraid the cost of the alcohol and drugs might not make up for the cheaper rent, however.

Retired To Win

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2014, 07:38:01 AM »
Does this include a mortgage?   Part of my FIRE plan is to pay off the mortgage and student loans. Once I'm there I could easily live on 15K.  Right now with housing and student loans I still spend hundreds less than $2K a month (varies depending on when non monthly expenses are due).  Almost half of this is for the mortgage and student loan.


My $15,000 plus-or-minus annual basic living expenses include a small mortgage and no installment debt.
You can find a complete breakdown of my housing costs in reply #44 of this thread.

Good luck with your FIRE plan.

MoneyCat

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2014, 10:54:29 AM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

I live in a very high COL area, so my housing expenses are pretty high.  Honestly, though, if you try some of the stuff I listed to save money, you might be surprised by how much extra you can put away each month.  And all that stuff is actually pretty fun once you learn the skills.

Spartana

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Re: How I Live Well on $15K a Year
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2014, 01:14:40 PM »
Yeah, it's actually not too difficult to live on $15K a year.  I crunched the numbers and since I split everything 50/50 with my wife, my share of total annual expenses came out to $14,400 last year.  It pretty much comes down to not spending money on anything.  There are plenty of free activities for exercise and entertainment and if you grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk (when necessary), ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, etc. you can live a really nice life for very little money.
I don't really do any of that (except the free or low cost activities) but still spend very little for my basic needs. Food can be very inexpensive to buy and there are easy ways to keep most expenses low without having to go to solar (my electric bill averages $10 - $15/month, gas the same but higher in winter occasionally, and water was $20 - $25 in summer and less in winter, sister pays internet, no cable, $10/month Tracfone, etc...). and clothes can be inexpensive too.

I live in a very high COL area, so my housing expenses are pretty high.  Honestly, though, if you try some of the stuff I listed to save money, you might be surprised by how much extra you can put away each month.  And all that stuff is actually pretty fun once you learn the skills.
You're right it does make a difference but I'll disagree on the "fun" part :-)! I have done much of that but didn't really enjoy it (other then riding my bike everywhere and doing free fun stuff) so chose to pay a bit more to have the few things I need in life (like food) provided to me by someone else (grocery store). I'm FI already and RE and live on a small passive income that meets my needs plus some extra for those extras - like someone to mow my law for $35/month. I do this more because I might be gone several months at a time and don't want to worry about it, but it also saves me time  - time that I would rather be spending doing things I don't enjoy - and I don't need to buy or maintain the equipment, tools, etc... I have the skills to do most things but just don't wanna any more. Lazy? Nah, just rather be playing :-)!

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!