Author Topic: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?  (Read 10717 times)

SAHD

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How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« on: April 20, 2014, 12:55:03 AM »
I was just reading the post, "help my MMM lifestyle is driving my husband away" and I seen a lot of post sayiing keep seperate accounts.  This is not the first time I have seen these type of comments.

The seperate accounts only work if you plan on divorcing your spouse and even then if you live in a 50/50 state such as I do it does not matter where your money is it, is split equally upon divorce.

I have a spouse that can follow the MMM lifestyle for about a week and then off she goes back to big spending.  If I were to keep seperate accountsm], what good would it do me?  I would retire early and she would be strapped for cash and have to continue to work for years and year.  What freedom does that buy me?  I can not go travel the world without her, I may be retired but I would be retired with a big anchor holding me to one place.  Also when it came time for her to retire and she did not have a lot of money saved up would I just laugh at her and let her beg on the street corner? I could not abandon her, I would end up paying for most everything in the end. 

I must be missing something.

mxt0133

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 01:13:27 AM »
I have thought of the exact same scenario you have and for a time came to the conclusions.  However, one thing that separating finances can give you is time.  Maybe by separating finances you can focus on changing yourself and achieving your goals.  I don't know how many time I have told people that you can't change other people, but for some reason I don't know how to take my own advice.  For a time I was about to implement separating our finances but decided to try and focus on myself.  And by focusing on myself instead of 'nagging' my wife about it, she has actually started to come around.  At this rate she will be mustachian in about ooh say 20 years.

I guess people suggest separating finances because it would be better than doing the same thing they are currently doing and getting nowhere.  The key is to keep communicating without trying to change the other person.  If they decide to change great, if not I don't see why two people with different philosophies on finances can't work something out that is to mutually beneficial.

AlexK

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 01:40:51 AM »
My wife and I have separate finances. It's a great system and we don't argue about spending. So the drawback you see to that system is we could make our own decision to retire whenever we like? That's a plus to me.

That said, share a toothbrush, order the same thing at restaurants, wear matching clothes, share a checking account, I don't care .

SAHD

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 08:02:45 AM »
My wife and I have separate finances. It's a great system and we don't argue about spending. So the drawback you see to that system is we could make our own decision to retire whenever we like? That's a plus to me.

That said, share a toothbrush, order the same thing at restaurants, wear matching clothes, share a checking account, I don't care .
I do like to wear her underwear?!?!? and we do share meals at resturants.

We are lucky that we have more than enough money and do not control each others spending already, I just bought a 45k boat it would take a lot of shoes to fill that hole.  So my question is what is the benefit if all you get to do is spend your own money without any hassles, are you going to let your spouse live in poverty at the age of 70 because she did not save enough?

coffee_sipper

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 08:26:29 AM »
Ehhhhhhh, we do it a bit different than keeping every single thing separate. Sure, that's a great idea if divorce should ravage your marriage, or if something else should come up that would cause some type of strain, but in the end we are a couple competing against life as a team.

We compile all of our earning inside of one account. So, for example, if I make $2,500 a month and my wife makes $1000, it all goes into one account. Reverse the amounts, and the same holds true. What about side hustles? The same thing. No matter how much money we make individually, it all goes into one account. From this account, we invest money into each of our Roth IRAs and also put money into an index fund. A savings account is also there too, and besides the Roth IRAs, every single account that we have is jointly held.

Then, we take a certain portion of our pay (right now it's sitting at 8.89%) and we give it to ourselves as free spending money, which is transferred to personal checking and savings accounts that are individually held. This way, if she or I decides to save everything we get for personal money, then great. However, if I want to spend it all and have $0 left over for misc items (computer games, gadgets, workout supplements, beer, etc.) then no harm is done to our joint finances. In the end, we would both retire at the same point, but along the way to retirement be able to spend our personal money as freely as we want. She could buy all the makeup she wants, and I could save it all, but in the end we still hold onto our financial goals as husband and wife.

The only time a discussion might ensue is if she or I believes that the amount of personal money given each month should go up or down, based on income for the year. Generally this is a painless process, as once a year we try to take a look at if the amount we are getting in our individual checking and savings accounts is enough.

samburger

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 08:35:30 AM »
in the end we still hold onto our financial goals as husband and wife.

I'd argue that you don't have separate finances. You have an allowance system.

I'm curious about the OP's question, too. I'd love to hear from someone who has a long-term, committed partner and totally separate finances. I hear about it a lot, but my wife and I have such a freakishly close relationship that I'm not able to think about what other marriages look like.

How does one plan a life with someone while keeping finances separate? How do you decide on major purchases like a house when one partner wants to spend a lot and the other doesn't?

coffee_sipper

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 08:41:04 AM »
in the end we still hold onto our financial goals as husband and wife.
I'd argue that you don't have separate finances. You have an allowance system.

I would agree with you, which is the reason why I didn't say that we have a separate finance system. All I said is that we don't keep it all separate, lol. Our goals are one, our money is one, and we provide each other with an allowance every two weeks. The OP is almost begging for a reason to have separate finances as it doesn't seem logical to him in regards to everyday spending and retirement, and I am providing a situation that goes with his current mindset of not doing such.

I just wanted to throw my input in on how we make it work, though it's not a separate financial system as you noted.

WillPen

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 09:19:51 AM »
I could not fathom separating everything as far as to have two different retirements. That would be heart breaking for me to think about. Maybe you were being facetious. I think some other posters have some really good advice about working towards a common goal. I think that's critical.

And that got me thinking -- Not just about this thread/situation but the subject in general -- How both partners view the income they bring has a lot to do with it. For example, is a pay check from an employer "my money" or "our money?" I know couples that do both. It can be really hard to find a good plan together if everything is "my money"


DoubleDown

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 09:57:06 AM »
I was just reading the post, "help my MMM lifestyle is driving my husband away" and I seen a lot of post sayiing keep seperate accounts.  This is not the first time I have seen these type of comments.

The seperate accounts only work if you plan on divorcing your spouse and even then if you live in a 50/50 state such as I do it does not matter where your money is it, is split equally upon divorce.

I have a spouse that can follow the MMM lifestyle for about a week and then off she goes back to big spending.  If I were to keep seperate accountsm], what good would it do me?  I would retire early and she would be strapped for cash and have to continue to work for years and year.  What freedom does that buy me?  I can not go travel the world without her, I may be retired but I would be retired with a big anchor holding me to one place.  Also when it came time for her to retire and she did not have a lot of money saved up would I just laugh at her and let her beg on the street corner? I could not abandon her, I would end up paying for most everything in the end. 

I must be missing something.

The point of separate accounts is not trying to shield assets from a divorce (that would not work, as you've noted). I think the primary reasons couples do this boil down to two primary points:

1. Avoiding conflict and allowing each partner to spend according to their own priorities: In an everything-combined system, then one person spending a lot more than another could lead to some obvious resentment. This is largely the same thing as having an "allowance" or "fun money" to spend from a combined account. There's some hand waving here, because obviously just splitting accounts does not alleviate the problem of people having different financial goals or frugality-vs-spendthrift problems. But I could argue, for example, that if I was a low earner and liked to save and spend my own earnings frugally, but my hotshot lawyer wife earns $1 million annually, then what authority should I have to dictate how she spends or saves? As long as one partner is not driving the family into financial ruin, then I think married partners should be given a lot of leeway in how they run their own financial affairs. I agree that it is far from ideal to have one partner being frugal and getting wealthy plus retiring early, while the other spends everything they earn, but it's not impossible to make this kind of arrangement work as long as both people are happy with their choices.

2. Convenience. In many cases, partners coming into a marriage already have their own, well-established finances. "Combining" things just for the sake of it would be a hassle, for no reason or gain. Why go to the trouble of switching all your automatic bill payments for your own expenses, redirecting your automatic payroll contributions to a new account, etc.?

Another small side benefit to separate accounts is you can have a little bit of desirable secrecy when buying gifts for your spouse.

Zikoris

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 11:56:55 AM »
It's an easy way to avoid pointless conflict. I would feel completely differently about my partner spending $500 on a gaming system if it was coming out of a joint account - as it is now, I don't care. I also like to keep the balance in my chequing account as low as possible, and put all the extra in investments. I have $50 in my main chequing account right now. My boyfriend would be very uncomfortable with this, and keeps a much higher buffer. Sure, we could reach some sort of compromise if we had to, but why bother when this is much easier and has the same results?

SweetLife

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 01:37:30 PM »
Funny I didn't even realize it was a big deal having separate accounts with my husband ... we just always have. I make the most money in the relationship (right now) and take care of all of the bills ect for our house  here ... my husband makes enough to cover the bills for our house in Portugal so he pays for that... when he doesn't make enough I cover whatever is left over. We are both frugal (me more so since finding this blog in December of last year - but he has been forever...).

Neither one of us is resentful of the other's separate bank account... If I need extra money one month I can take from his account and if he needs it one month I can transfer it there ... I think this arrangement helps us both be independent in our interdependence ... lol... and it is also good for keeping presents a secret though we do few of those right now :)

Vilgan

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 01:53:31 PM »
I like that we keep our finances separate because it reduces potential for conflict about money. I think her <fill in the blank> is absurd? Oh well, it is her money and not really my business. She thinks the same of my <fill in another blank>? Same deal. By keeping it separate we can still help each other evaluate and try to make good decisions but avoid any resentment if we disagree with their decisions.

You can use a prenup to keep things separate, even through divorce (just don't mix them during the marriage). As far as 1 person retiring young and the other working until they are ancient: I'm not sure there is a good answer for that. Try being an example, try getting them to read your money or your life, etc. In some cases, there might not be a good answer.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 01:57:33 PM by Vilgan »

dragoncar

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 02:24:59 PM »
Well my goal isn't to travel the world, it's to not go to work every day during the best parts of the day.  If my wife wants to trade her life energy for material goods that's fine with me, but I want to be able to spend Tuesday in the park while keeping things "fair" by contributing to expenses from separate assets.  That prevents the mentality that I'm mooching off a working spouse.

BlueMR2

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 06:17:56 PM »
Separate financial accounts can drastically reduce conflict over spending habits.  Why combine stuff so it's easier to divorce and do a 50/50 split when you can save a lot of work by not merging accounts in the first place, and then avoid the divorce too.  ;-)

MrFancypants

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 11:45:07 AM »
My spouse and I talk about money so frequently that having a single joint account would likely not cause any strife.  But we're operating under the theory that arguments could spring from spending, so we've insulated each other from petty/frivolous purchases that we might make for ourselves by each having a private account where a reasonable allowance is dumped once per paycheck.

Freedom2016

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2014, 01:53:00 PM »
It seems like people are saying that separate accounts make sense particularly when partners have different spending/saving profiles. Does that seem fair?

We throw everything together and use an allowance system. We did have some tough conversations early on; we were coming from somewhat different places (though not diametrically opposed), though we are pretty much on the same page today. For that reason, IMO the growing pains/disagreements we had early on about finances were worth it.

Also, for me, combining everything is a tangible expression of our unity - "we are in this together," "I trust you," "everything is ours" and "we're working together toward our future." I'm not saying people w/ separate finances don't feel or say such things - not at all - just that for me, personally, it's a reminder of them that I appreciate.

For couples where partners have really different save/spend profiles and separate accounts, do conflicts ever arise over spending for, say, kids? Pets? Aged parents? (Maybe the bigger question is, do you view anything as truly "ours" rather than "yours" and "mine"?) If so, how do you work out conflicts surrounding spending/saving on the "ours"?  In cases like that, it seems like the real issue isn't so much having separate accounts as it is having really different philosophies/values around money.


 

DoubleDown

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2014, 02:15:55 PM »
Maybe the bigger question is, do you view anything as truly "ours" rather than "yours" and "mine"?) If so, how do you work out conflicts surrounding spending/saving on the "ours"?

In my marriage, some is "mine", some is "yours", and some is "ours", and we have accounts to match that. All joint spending (house, utilities, etc.) comes from the "ours" account, and it's done by our percentage of income (I earn 3x more than her, so I put 3x more in that account than her to cover joint expenses). Everything else is our own to do as we wish. We have this arrangement largely because it's a second marriage for both of us, each with our own kids from previous marriages, and different spending/saving priorities. Plus I wasn't going to undo all my previous accounts, payroll contributions, bill paying, etc. just for the illusion/fantasy of calling it "ours."

tmac

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 08:57:38 AM »
The background:

We've been married for more than 10 years. We own a business together, and I work part-time in it. I spend the rest of my time managing the household and kids. If we were to divorce (which is I don't foresee), I'd be in deep shit. I haven't worked in my primary fields in a very long time and my income would be dramatically reduced.

We're both pretty frugal, but we spend on different things, and it used to cause some tension. I'd feel guilty every time I bought a book, and he hated having to justify his Starbucks purchases to me. I'd hate it too.

Before we were married, he didn't do the best job of managing his own finances. Not a lot of waste, just sloppy. Missed payments, etc.

Therefore:

We dump all money (paychecks, side gigs, etc.) into a big pot and share all credit cards. The only separate thing is IRAs. I manage it. Every month, we each get an allowance. When it's gone, it's gone. Food eaten as a family is from the family budget. Food alone or as a couple, and any other personal expenses, come from the allowance. There are a few approved personal expenses that are budgeted normally, outside of the allowance, because they aren't overspending areas for us (clothes, hobbies, etc.).

It's helped us avoid a lot of day-to-day conflict and tension. We get to talk about progress toward shared goals, and avoid having to justify/debate/argue about every not-quite-necessary purchase. And we have a healthy marriage and we have similar spending habits. I imagine that for couples that struggle more, or have very different spending styles, it could be even more helpful. And if we had VERY different goals or habits (and yet were otherwise happy together), I'd definitely be on board for separate finances.

An unanticipated side benefit is that it's also helped us avoid a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Eating out is our biggest wasteful spending area. When we were spending from the family restaurant budget, we didn't worry to much about what we spent. There was plenty of money there, until the end of the month when we were scraping. Now that it's our OWN money, we're much more careful. Lunch at the great Mexican place nearby used to cost $20-25 easy, but now we get the very satisfying specials, and drink water, and have gotten it down to $5 each.

dude

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 10:17:29 AM »
I don't know that separate finances "saves my marriage," but we have had separate finances from the beginning.  It was a natural extension of our pre-marital state, which lasted for a long time.  We both contribute to a shared pot for the mortgage and savings in proportion to our respective incomes, and just fell into a splitting of household expenses (me - groceries, insurance, car, health care, entertainment; her - utilities, most pet expenses).  It works fine, and we don't hide anything from one another.

Iron Mike Sharpe

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 10:55:24 AM »
Why couldn't you travel by yourself?

Surely, she is a mentally capable adult.  Our actions in life have consequences.  If she values living for today instead of for tomorrow, that is her choice.  If she wants to work until she is 70, that is her choice.  You just need to tell her what your vision is for your life.  Tell her she is free to join you on your path or she can continue on the path she is on. 

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2014, 05:05:04 PM »
DH (now ex) and I had separate accounts and it worked out great. We had a joint checking account that we each contributed an equal amount too (both worked and earned about the same amount) to cover household expenses. We also had a joint investment account that we each contributed equal amounts to for retirement or other future use (both had government pensions so retirement funding really wasn't an issue). Those two joint accounts were funded before anything else. Otherwise we each invested, saved, and spent as we saw fit via separate accounts. Large purchases (like a house) were discussed, decided equally and purchased jointly. However smaller individual purchases (including cars) were at the discretion of the person who wanted the thing for his or herself. We were both very frugal cash-only people who never had any debt other than a house, so it was very easy to have separate accounts and spend/save how we each wanted. No disagreements on how we spent our separate money, or on the things we spent it on.  We were married 17 years.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 05:23:54 PM by Spartana »

hybrid

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 05:15:17 AM »
My wife and I have separate finances. It's a great system and we don't argue about spending. So the drawback you see to that system is we could make our own decision to retire whenever we like? That's a plus to me.

That said, share a toothbrush, order the same thing at restaurants, wear matching clothes, share a checking account, I don't care .
I do like to wear her underwear?!?!? and we do share meals at resturants.

We are lucky that we have more than enough money and do not control each others spending already, I just bought a 45k boat it would take a lot of shoes to fill that hole.  So my question is what is the benefit if all you get to do is spend your own money without any hassles, are you going to let your spouse live in poverty at the age of 70 because she did not save enough?

I don't get this at all. If you are truly that worried about your wife's situation in retirement, then why did you just buy such an incredibly expensive toy? If you have more than enough money what's the real issue?

It sure sounds to me like you just want to tame your spending some (and that's debatable), not take on a frugal lifestyle. What's the real issue here? Is her constant shopping just a nagging reminder of what you did all at once in one fell swoop?

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 06:18:15 AM »
At the end of the day I dont think it really matters if you have separate accounts or not.  We dont because more importantly we have a plan together including investments and anything beyond that is extra per sae. I could give a shit if she bought a 4$ cup a coffee and she could careless if I bought myself a steak dinner as long as everything else was met in our "Big overall Plan".   We make sure though there isn't alot of extra so we can make our goals quicker.  Having joint or separate accounts isnt going to matter. Having the same goals is the difference maker.  And joint accounts or not any large/excessive purchase should imho be part of your over-all planning, I dont care how much you make.

SAHD

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 07:53:10 AM »
My wife and I have separate finances. It's a great system and we don't argue about spending. So the drawback you see to that system is we could make our own decision to retire whenever we like? That's a plus to me.

That said, share a toothbrush, order the same thing at restaurants, wear matching clothes, share a checking account, I don't care .
I do like to wear her underwear?!?!? and we do share meals at resturants.

We are lucky that we have more than enough money and do not control each others spending already, I just bought a 45k boat it would take a lot of shoes to fill that hole.  So my question is what is the benefit if all you get to do is spend your own money without any hassles, are you going to let your spouse live in poverty at the age of 70 because she did not save enough?

I don't get this at all. If you are truly that worried about your wife's situation in retirement, then why did you just buy such an incredibly expensive toy? If you have more than enough money what's the real issue?

It sure sounds to me like you just want to tame your spending some (and that's debatable), not take on a frugal lifestyle. What's the real issue here? Is her constant shopping just a nagging reminder of what you did all at once in one fell swoop?

If you look at the original post it does not mention anything about how it will save MY marrage..I have seen in many post about spousal spending that many people think that the best thing to do is seperate your finances.  And I was just questioning how do people think this is good?  Getting an allowance if fine, we had allowances when we were first married, it did not work for her (overdrafted account monthly).  I was just saying that in a worse case cenario (divorce) in many states your assests are shared unless you have a prenup.  Also I questioned how does it work if one spouse does not save and the other does and one retires 10 years earlier, how do you travel and such.  One responded to this post said travel by yourself and leave your spouse behind, I do not know how much fun that would be to take off for 4 months without my spouse.  After all I got married to be with her not without her.  So do not try to Psychoanalyze me.

vespito

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 10:13:31 AM »
Below is my take on this.  I am not trying to convince anyone that my way is the right way - it's just what we do.

We have joint and separate finances.  Is it the most efficient?  Probably not.  Do we care?  No.  It just works for us.  Here are the reasons:

1a) I get to lead by example - my wife never budgeted before - that would have driven me nuts if we shared all accounts. I don't. After seeing how I am in control of my finances, she started budgeting. 
1b) At first she was questioning my reduced spending ("but won't you be miserable?") but since we each have our own accounts, I didn't have to compromise.  As she sees how my finances (and general mood) improve she is starting to understand why I am saving so much, and has started doing the same.
2) It just works for us.  People seem to have very strong opinions on this - some say that if you are really committed all your money should be put together, others say just the opposite.  Quite honestly, we don't care.  Well, I do like to hear other opinions in case I can learn something, but we do what works for us.
3) We like to treat ourselves and each other to little things. We like these to be spontaneous - no conversations or anything like that.
4) Who knows what the future will bring.  I feel very strongly that we should each understand our financial picture, how to invest, etc.  Since my spouse has her own finances she has been learning how to do all this.  If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, she will know how to handle her money.

vespito

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 10:14:34 AM »
Below is my take on this.  I am not trying to convince anyone that my way is the right way - it's just what we do.

We have joint and separate finances.  Is it the most efficient?  Probably not.  Do we care?  No.  It just works for us.  Here are the reasons:

1a) I get to lead by example - my wife never budgeted before - that would have driven me nuts if we shared all accounts. After seeing how I am in control of my finances, she started budgeting. 
1b) At first she was questioning my reduced spending ("but won't you be miserable?") but since we each have our own accounts, I didn't have to compromise.  As she sees how my finances (and general mood) improve she is starting to understand why I am saving so much, and has started doing the same.
2) It just works for us.  People seem to have very strong opinions on this - some say that if you are really committed all your money should be put together, others say just the opposite.  Quite honestly, we don't care.  Well, I do like to hear other opinions in case I can learn something, but we do what works for us.
3) We like to treat ourselves and each other to little things. We like these to be spontaneous - no conversations or anything like that.
4) Who knows what the future will bring.  I feel very strongly that we should each understand our financial picture, how to invest, etc.  Since my spouse has her own finances she has been learning how to do all this.  If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, she will know how to handle her money.

Edit: removed quotes from my own post, random typos

GoldenStache

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2014, 07:47:58 PM »
One account.. but…

We have a $75 rule…

If it costs less than $75, feel free to buy it if you really want it.  If it costs more than $75, you must get the others approval before buying. 

We don't go crazy with it because really there are not that many things we want that are under $75..  One account is easier for paying the bills, investing and everything else. 

limeandpepper

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2014, 10:16:15 PM »
Also I questioned how does it work if one spouse does not save and the other does and one retires 10 years earlier, how do you travel and such.

You gotta think outside the box, not everyone lives a super-typical/traditional lifestyle. My boyfriend and I have no plans for marriage yet (and really, in many places this is no longer a big deal), but even if we get married, if presuming our circumstances remain the same, we'll keep our finances separate, until it makes more sense to combine it.

Why do we not combine finances yet?

- I am more conservative, he is more carefree. Once, he took almost a year off and spent his days doing whatever he wanted. With separate finances, I was worried on his behalf, but that was that. If our finances had been combined, it would have been way more dangerous for the relationship as it would probably have created inequality and resentment. With separate finances, he knows that he can play hard, as long as he uses his own savings, and goes back to working hard before he runs out of money.

What about travel?

- I currently have a 9-5 job at a company. He is a freelancer who can work from anywhere for multiple clients, or work on contract for overseas clients at their offices. If I retire before he does, we can still travel, as he is able to pick up projects here and there for income. He doesn't mind this and quite likes the idea of being a digital nomad.

What will happen if circumstances change?

- If ever anything happens so that one of us becomes less capable of earning an income, then of course the other person is willing to jump in. But while we are both perfectly capable of earning our own incomes, we can be responsible for our own respective financial situations, and feel no need to change the status quo.

Are we still a team?

- Yes, we have similar values; we also have similar goals and even if we choose to take slightly different paths, we are committed to getting there together hand in hand (see travel example above).

deborah

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2014, 11:17:57 PM »
We have always had separate accounts. Each being responsible for our own money has meant that we have both developed financial skills, and both know the other will be OK if/when we die.  Fifteen years ago, my small car was hit by an express bus going from Melbourne to Sydney. The ambulance people and the bus driver were sure I was dead. I have felt ever since that I am on borrowed time. One of us is bound to live longer, and if that person only has emotional trauma, and not financial trauma as well, they may deal with the situation better. I am happier knowing that he will be OK.

Because we have always had separate accounts, we have each shouldered the burden of learning to be financially responsible. We also separated payments so that one person does each - someone paid the mortgage, the other paid the utility bills... I think this has also developed an enormous amount of financial trust between the two of us. If we have temporary needs that exceed our income, we lend (0% interest) or give each other money - or re-balance who is paying for what. To me, it doesn't matter if we each decide to save in a different way. He used to go OS skiing every year for a few weeks - that was his financial decision. I have my own hobbies.

If your wife is financially irresponsible, separate accounts could assist, both in getting financial responsibility and in movement towards a more frugal lifestyle overall.

cochranjd

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 08:00:43 AM »
I'd be interested in hearing how many of the folks that keep separate accounts have kids.  In my mind, it would be easier to keep separate accounts if you didn't have any kids and were used to keeping things separate so just kept them that way.

My wife is a stay at home mom as well, while I work.  Would be very awkward to come up with a system of separate accounts for us. 

To me, it just feels a bit too "contractual" to have separate finances and dole out bills and split mortgages, etc.  Some folks seem to like the idea of not knowing or caring what their spouse is spending money on, but I find it to be a good smell test - if I can't justify an expense to the person I've married (the person closest to me in the world), is it something I really need to spend money on?  We do have money built into our budget that each of us can spend on whatever we want, but it all comes out of the same account(s) and gets tracked just like the rest of our expenditures.

That said, it seems to work for some people, and ultimately it is probably one of those things that just depends on how you view things going into your marriage - I think at the end of the day, different folks can look down the list of each side and one person may see something as a benefit and the other see it as a negative.

As long as what you're doing works for you and your spouse and doesn't cause tension, it seems like the right plan for you.  For some folks, the idea of combining things would probably produce more tension than benefit, while others (myself included) would probably feel way more tension and concern were things to be split separately.

Great discussion though and interesting to see all the different philosophies.

pom

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 08:22:09 AM »
Each being responsible for our own money has meant that we have both developed financial skills, and both know the other will be OK if/when we die. 

My dad had the same reasonning with my mother, he always said that this waiy she would learn to handle her own investments. They were maried for 40 years until she passed away.

vespito

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 09:22:38 AM »
I'd be interested in hearing how many of the folks that keep separate accounts have kids.  In my mind, it would be easier to keep separate accounts if you didn't have any kids and were used to keeping things separate so just kept them that way.

This is a good point.  We don't have kids.  If we did, we would probably continue doing what we do - but that is just speculation.  If we found it easier to combine finances then we probably would.

giggles

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2014, 09:38:19 AM »
We do have seperate financial accounts - "Yours"  "Mine"  "Ours" style.  We are expecting our first child next month :)  What we've done is just up each of our contributions to the "Ours" accounts to cover child needs.  All household bills are paid from the "Ours" accounts.  Our pay checks are deposited into our individual accounts, then our portion of the household bills is transferred to the joint account, and we pay the bills from there.  Works great for us.

Insanity

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2014, 09:55:53 AM »
I'd be interested in hearing how many of the folks that keep separate accounts have kids.  In my mind, it would be easier to keep separate accounts if you didn't have any kids and were used to keeping things separate so just kept them that way.

This is a good point.  We don't have kids.  If we did, we would probably continue doing what we do - but that is just speculation.  If we found it easier to combine finances then we probably would.

The challenge is more when one spouse does not work in order to be home with the kids (not to retire) and the other does. 

For my wife, right now, she feels like she is not in control of the income.  Which is true.  I make the money because she is a SAHM (by choice).  But at the same point, she has more control over the expenses.    Of course she doesn't understand this and feels like I have control over our marriage as a result - and that is what is leading to a lot of our issues.




cochranjd

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2014, 10:23:15 AM »
We do have seperate financial accounts - "Yours"  "Mine"  "Ours" style.  We are expecting our first child next month :)  What we've done is just up each of our contributions to the "Ours" accounts to cover child needs.  All household bills are paid from the "Ours" accounts.  Our pay checks are deposited into our individual accounts, then our portion of the household bills is transferred to the joint account, and we pay the bills from there.  Works great for us.

The more I read through the thread, the more I start to realize that the 2 ideas aren't really that far apart.  We have 1 account and budget some "personal" money for each other.  If we simply pulled that into separate accounts each month (that personal money), we'd be pretty much the same, except ours would come in to one account and then split out the personal while you guys come in as personal and each merge in your "ours" money.  Either way, it seems 90% of cases end up with the idea of "yours", "mine" and "ours" as you mentioned whether those buckets are physical (different banks/accounts) or just in a budget of some sort.

Congrats on the child, by the way - it's a blast, though you aren't going to sleep for a while so load up now :)

rtrnow

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2014, 10:38:01 AM »
Quote

If you look at the original post it does not mention anything about how it will save MY marrage..I have seen in many post about spousal spending that many people think that the best thing to do is seperate your finances.  And I was just questioning how do people think this is good?  Getting an allowance if fine, we had allowances when we were first married, it did not work for her (overdrafted account monthly).  I was just saying that in a worse case cenario (divorce) in many states your assests are shared unless you have a prenup.  Also I questioned how does it work if one spouse does not save and the other does and one retires 10 years earlier, how do you travel and such.  One responded to this post said travel by yourself and leave your spouse behind, I do not know how much fun that would be to take off for 4 months without my spouse.  After all I got married to be with her not without her.  So do not try to Psychoanalyze me.

My partner and I have always kept separate finances. It always made sense because we already had well established finances. Luckily we are both pretty frugal. He ER'd two years ago and I have another few months before I cut back to just part time (10-20hrs/wk). Why do you need to take off for 4 months? Smaller trips on your own or with friends can be great. My partner travels without me, the longest 3 weeks I think at this point. Sometimes I feel a little jealous but it just makes be save even more. We share a lot of interests, but also even when both retired we will have things we do on our own. The great help for us has been another couple in a similar circumstance. So the two retired partners often do things together and the two of us still working hang out a lot when they're gone.

tmac

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2014, 11:16:56 AM »
Insanity, I can see where your spouse is coming from. I've had various issues learning how to value my contribution as a SAHP.

One thing that helps for me is to track the amount of money I'm saving for us. After-school childcare costs ($640/mo), home food production (regularly save $400/mo), smart shopping, etc. There is a real dollar amount associated with my work here at home. It's not what I made out in the world, but it adds up to real money.

I'm also the primary financial planner for our family. I deal with all budgeting, investments, all expenses, subscriptions, home services, etc. I'm the final decision-maker for a lot of things. DH may control how much money comes in, but I control how much money goes out.

Another thing that helps me find fulfillment in the role: I keep note of things I do that add to our quality of life. Lessened stress by being here for for sick kids and plumbers, being able to relax in the evenings instead of doing housework, grocery shopping, etc.

Lastly, and not least, DH is vocal about his appreciation for the work I do. He tells people about my successes, and he reminds the kids to say thanks and not take my efforts for granted. This makes a HUGE difference to me.

DoubleDown

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2014, 01:09:55 PM »
For my wife, right now, she feels like she is not in control of the income.  Which is true.  I make the money because she is a SAHM (by choice).  But at the same point, she has more control over the expenses.    Of course she doesn't understand this and feels like I have control over our marriage as a result - and that is what is leading to a lot of our issues.

Interesting Insanity, I feel like this was the #1 cause of my divorce. Besides feeling out of control in the marriage like you've described, I think my wife lost a lot of her identity or perceived self worth when she became a SAHM (even though it was her choice to do it, and her choice to remain as a SAHM, and I did attempt to let her know her role was valuable, and suggesting that of course she could always return to work if she wants). Being cut off from her social network at work and having only "baby talk" all day didn't help either. The SAHP role doesn't seem to suit some people very well.

The other odd thing in my situation, in case you are experiencing this, is the above didn't lead to what I might have expected as a more likely outcome. Rather than becoming needier, it had the opposite effect for my ex-wife. She became much more demanding (maybe as an unnecessary or misguided attempt to gain more "control"?), lost motivation to ever return to work (or do much of any work around the house), and gained a sense of pride or entitlement, like everything should be handed to her.

deborah

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Re: How does seperate financial account save your marriage?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2014, 04:27:17 PM »
For my wife, right now, she feels like she is not in control of the income.  Which is true.  I make the money because she is a SAHM (by choice).  But at the same point, she has more control over the expenses.    Of course she doesn't understand this and feels like I have control over our marriage as a result - and that is what is leading to a lot of our issues.

Interesting Insanity, I feel like this was the #1 cause of my divorce. Besides feeling out of control in the marriage like you've described, I think my wife lost a lot of her identity or perceived self worth when she became a SAHM

I once listened to something about this on the radio years ago - they said that lack of financial awareness in the stay at home partner was the number one cause of marriage breakup. Thinking about it, perhaps you could work out (together) what her staying at home was worth, and automatically have it deducted from your salary into her account. Then you could work out who was responsible for what part of the budget. Anything to make her feel wanted and prevent marriage problems.