Buying a truck

[Vic99]

My 2000 GMC truck died last month.  In the market for another used truck.  Have an opportunity for Ford F350 super Duty Regular Cab XLT with an 8ft bed, four wheel drive.  The dealer, someone I trust and more than an aquanitance - not quite a friend,  replaced rusted suspension parts and will undercoat rest.  He's also getting me a liner and brand new tires.

However, it has 165k miles on it.

I will only put 1-2k a year miles on it.  My wife and I each have a car.  This vehicle is for hauling firewood (I burn 24/7 mid-October to mid-April), ocassional home improvement hauling (hauling sheet rock, funiture, etc), and transport in the snow.

A lot of miles were apparently highway miles, but the 165k miles gives me pause.  Anyone have experience with a vehicle like this?  Please leave the Ford vs Chevy/GMC stuff at the door.

Here are the option:
Drive: 4WD
Transmission: Automatic
Engine: V8, 5.4 Liter
Options/Equipment
Off-Road Pkg, ABS (4-Wheel), Air Conditioning, Power Windows, Power Door,Locks, Cruise Control, Power Steering, Tilt Wheel, AM/FM Stereo, CD (Single Disc), Dual Air Bags,Bed Liner, Premium Wheels

Obviously there are no guarenttes.  Is this the kind of vehicle I could reasonably expect to get 6+ yearss out of when putting 1-2k / year.

Thanks.

[JLee]

An F350 is enormous overkill for the vast majority of people.

What's your total anticipated cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle compared to cost of renting a Home Depot/etc truck for when you would need one?

[Vic99]

JLee, you bring up valid points.  The truck may be more than I need in terms of capacity.  However, I will not rent.  I will use it several times a month, sometimes every other day.  But most of my trips will be under 15 miles round trip.

I'm interested in what anyone could tell me about their experience with reliability of a high mileage vehicle like this considering that I will not be adding too much to that each year.

[JLee]

I bought a Tacoma with the 3.4l 5vzfe with ~268k and sold it just shy of 283k about two years later. I don't have any experience with Ford, but I would imagine it'd last just fine.

[alsoknownasDean]

Yeah often engines in such vehicles are under stressed (eg: may produce less power than an equivalent sized car engine). 165k should have plenty of life left.

What year is it?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Vic99]

2006

[JLee]

2006

I'd do some reading on that model so you can make an informed decision, though I still think an F350 is massive overkill for 99.9% of people. The only time I needed something bigger than a Tacoma was when my uncle borrowed my truck to tow a van, lol. He needed something bigger for that.

I'd think an older/cheap F150/1500 or similar would be fine for a work truck, but I'm not sure what your loads are like.  My little Tacoma did what I needed.

[HPstache]

How does a truck "die"?  Why arent you fixing it first so that you can at least sell it to offset the cost of the new truck, or even keep driving it? If your gmc has the 5.3L V8 those things are nearly a few hundred dollars.

[JZinCO]

replaced rusted suspension parts and will undercoat rest.  He's also getting me a liner and brand new tires.

I will only put 1-2k a year miles on it.  My wife and I each have a car.  This vehicle is for hauling firewood (I burn 24/7 mid-October to mid-April), ocassional home improvement hauling (hauling sheet rock, funiture, etc), and transport in the snow.

What do you mean "rusted" suspension parts? You're dealing with leaf springs, coils in the front and shocks. Coils and leaves work even rusted and the rust will be superficial and no way hamper their function. Also you could undercoat and bed line in a weekend DIY.
Your salesman sounds like this guy:

Also, I'm a big truck guy but it sounds like you could have an 80s toyota pickup with the same amount of miles for 3-4K and be able to do the jobs you're talking; especially because you are talking about utility. Any modern truck's value is all wrapped up in interior luxury. Don't buy a 1 ton truck unless you plan on hauling trailers (as in like fifth-wheel heavy trailers)

[alsoknownasDean]

2006

I'd do some reading on that model so you can make an informed decision, though I still think an F350 is massive overkill for 99.9% of people. The only time I needed something bigger than a Tacoma was when my uncle borrowed my truck to tow a van, lol. He needed something bigger for that.

I'd think an older/cheap F150/1500 or similar would be fine for a work truck, but I'm not sure what your loads are like.  My little Tacoma did what I needed.

Yeah unless you're towing a massive caravan or a boat, the smaller ones might make sense.

Although what killed off the GMC one? Surely it might have been worth repairing for something that's not heavily used. Or did it just rust out?

[steviesterno]

is there any way to put a tow hitch and small trailer or hitch rack on one of the cars you have?

I wanted to upgrade my small SUV when I bought a house and we're starting a family, and was leaning towards something Tahoe sized. Obviously this is before I started reading here. but we got a trailer hitch and roof rack for my little FJ, and so far there hasn't been anything we needed to move and couldn't. I can strap plywood to the roof, and the hitch rack ($15 on craiglstist) has enabled us to carry hundreds of pounds of stuff. I could fit stacks of firewood on there.

we have family with a lot of big trucks, and I wouldn't worry about getting one if someone didn't use it to it's potential. a lot of people use those trucks to commute, so they are not all beat up. if someone used it to tow a camper all the time, or worked construction, it might be all burned up. that milage seems high for how old the truck is, so sounds like a commuter to me.

[Vic99]

How does a truck "die"?  Why arent you fixing it first so that you can at least sell it to offset the cost of the new truck, or even keep driving it? If your gmc has the 5.3L V8 those things are nearly a few hundred dollars.

V8RX7, I wanted to trim my question down so people would read it . . . I used "die" to be fast.

A month ago the power steering ruptured and leaked all over the driveway.  When it was towed to the mechanic (my wife's former employer: used car dealer & mechanic), they also found that part of the suspension was seriosuly rusting out, and the breaks needed serious work (again).  I bought the truck from him back in 99 for 6k.  We have a good relationship and to my knowledge he's always gone the extra mile and never screwed me when I bring any vehicles in over the last 10 years.  You might term him "an honest mechanic".  They told me in their opinion they wouldn't spend the money to fix it if it was theirs.  I forget how much they said, but maybe 4k+ in parts & labor.  I asked if they would buy it for parts.  Gave me $500 which I was happy to get.

[FarmStash]

Only bad things I have heard are on the 2006 ford diesel motors other than that seemed to be ok.  If the truck was taken care of you could possibly expect another 100k miles.  Sounds like a ranger, F150 (think you can get a heavier duty model with 5.4 in it) or small to behind trailer might be more than enough for you.  I used to put 1 ton of feed on a ranger and besides squatting down the truck was fine.

I own a GMC 3500 and haul loads of feed and pull a trailer multiple times a week and if I didnt do that would switch to a smaller vehicle in a second.   Once you get into the larger model trucks fuel, maintenance, repair and tire cost go up exponentially.

[Vic99]

is there any way to put a tow hitch and small trailer or hitch rack on one of the cars you have?

I wanted to upgrade my small SUV when I bought a house and we're starting a family, and was leaning towards something Tahoe sized. Obviously this is before I started reading here. but we got a trailer hitch and roof rack for my little FJ, and so far there hasn't been anything we needed to move and couldn't. I can strap plywood to the roof, and the hitch rack ($15 on craiglstist) has enabled us to carry hundreds of pounds of stuff. I could fit stacks of firewood on there.

we have family with a lot of big trucks, and I wouldn't worry about getting one if someone didn't use it to it's potential. a lot of people use those trucks to commute, so they are not all beat up. if someone used it to tow a camper all the time, or worked construction, it might be all burned up. that milage seems high for how old the truck is, so sounds like a commuter to me.

Steviesterno, I have thought about towing.  I drive a chevy volt, a plug in electric hybrid.  I'm not towing anything with that.  My wife has a 2005 toyota matrix with 135k on it.  It currently is not set up for towing.  I used to use the matrix for firewood.  Folded down the seats and threw in a tarp.  There are limits to that.  Now I have a 3 & 5 year old, so that space is occupied by two booster seats.  If I hauled a car load of firewood a couple times a year then I wouldn't mind the swap out, etc.  However, between heating my home home 24/7 and maple syrup production in Feb/March, I burn four cords of wood a year.  I don't pay for any of it, so I rely on town compost site and downed trees I see in my travels . . . always asking permission of course.

We are thinking about getting a used camper, maybe 18-20 ft in the next couple of years when the kids get a bit older, but that's not a given.

Truck has come in handy quite often between home improvement projects, buying stuff off of craigslist, snow commuting.  I agree, though the F350 seems more than I need, but it seems like a good price for a solid vehicle.  None the less it is worth seeking advice here.  thanks.

[Vic99]

Only bad things I have heard are on the 2006 ford diesel motors other than that seemed to be ok.  If the truck was taken care of you could possibly expect another 100k miles.  Sounds like a ranger, F150 (think you can get a heavier duty model with 5.4 in it) or small to behind trailer might be more than enough for you.  I used to put 1 ton of feed on a ranger and besides squatting down the truck was fine.

I own a GMC 3500 and haul loads of feed and pull a trailer multiple times a week and if I didnt do that would switch to a smaller vehicle in a second.   Once you get into the larger model trucks fuel, maintenance, repair and tire cost go up exponentially.

Farm stash,  this truck I may buy is not a diesel.  My quick internet research has said the same about the diesel, but not about the regular gas engine.  I have wondered about maintenance costs.

[use2betrix]

I may have missed it, but what are you planning to pay for this? I wouldn't be worth more than 5-6k. My friend just bought a very similar f350 with basically zero rust, gas engine, and 120k in Cali for like 8-9k I think it was.

I like Ford. I have a 2013 f250 I use to tow our 42' 5th wheel we full time in.

[Money Badger]

Vic99,   I've had several F150s and Chevy pickups over the years.   The F350 is a solid, commercial duty rig, though a 5.4L gas V8 is really the "base" engine version of it so it may have relatively low towing rating (assuming you weren't talking diesel).  So the gain is mostly bigger brakes and suspension bits over an F150 in terms of hauling in this case.  Now for towing trailers, I would not put my family in a vehicle that had that much rust damage for towing a sizable trailer, even if there's been work to fix things up.   So many brake lines and bearings and CV joints and steering joints and other bits of sheet metal that tend to get eaten from the inside out without any obvious signs that anyone could see will tend to come back to haunt you later.

If you like the F350 though, I found that dealers that are part of east coast or national franchises have an amazing distribution networks to get vehicles to and from the sunbelt very cheaply.   I was able to get a vehicle from 3 states away basically for free from Kendrick automotive for example...   Avoid Florida coastal areas (hurricanes/rust/heat tends to be a problem on paint, etc. on them) and focus on Alabama cities, Atlanta, South Carolina vehicles where there's almost no salt used on the roads and look at the websites of the bigger guys.  This way, mileage is really a minor issue on the F250/F350 products, and then you can focus on Carfax history and cosmetics more.    Just a thought to manage the back-end costs.

[Clean Shaven]

There was an era of the 5.4 motor that had problems - google and see what to avoid.

[Vic99]

Thanks for all of the advice.

I've decided to try and hold out for a used Ford F150.  There are others I will consider as well.   Turns out consumer reports has a list of vehicles entitled, "worst of the worst".  The 06 F350 is on there.  Of course that doesn't mean its a flawed purchase, but it tips the scales when I look at the higher mileage, the advice gotten here and on another forum, and that it might just be more truck than I need with potentially larger repair costs.

[Monkey Uncle]

Before you buy anything, you should compare the annual cost of ownership of the truck (including depreciation) to the annual cost of purchasing all your firewood.  I also heat with wood and have a truck that is driven 1 - 2k/yr, mostly for cutting wood.  I ran the numbers and discovered that it is only a little cheaper to cut my own wood vs. buy it.  But that was using my current truck (98 F150), which has already done most of its depreciating.  If I were to spend $5-$10k on a newer truck, I'm guessing it would be cheaper just to buy wood.  But right now I'm choosing to keep my truck, because I do occasionally haul other things, and I also enjoy cutting wood.  But it's nice to know that if I'm ever physically unable or just get tired of the work, I'd come out about the same buying the wood.

[Fishindude]

My business runs a fleet of Ford pickups.  We typically unload them at about ten years, 250,000 miles.  Unless that one has been abused, is a lemon, or has seen extreme circumstances, it should last a while.

Surprisingly, it's not the motors or drive train that wears out on our Fords, it's the frame.  The frames and underbody stuff deteriorate and rust out due to road salt, etc.   Get under it and check that stuff out, as this one is near ten years old.

[Vic99]

Before you buy anything, you should compare the annual cost of ownership of the truck (including depreciation) to the annual cost of purchasing all your firewood.  I also heat with wood and have a truck that is driven 1 - 2k/yr, mostly for cutting wood.  I ran the numbers and discovered that it is only a little cheaper to cut my own wood vs. buy it.  But that was using my current truck (98 F150), which has already done most of its depreciating.  If I were to spend $5-$10k on a newer truck, I'm guessing it would be cheaper just to buy wood.  But right now I'm choosing to keep my truck, because I do occasionally haul other things, and I also enjoy cutting wood.  But it's nice to know that if I'm ever physically unable or just get tired of the work, I'd come out about the same buying the wood.

Good point.  However, I haven't really done that because although, it may or may not be cost effective, I get more out of it than saving money.  Exercise, pride in hand processing, another excuse to get outside, etc.  Plus the truck comes in handy in the snow, for someconstruction materials projects, moving furniture, etc.

[Vic99]

My business runs a fleet of Ford pickups.  We typically unload them at about ten years, 250,000 miles.  Unless that one has been abused, is a lemon, or has seen extreme circumstances, it should last a while.

Surprisingly, it's not the motors or drive train that wears out on our Fords, it's the frame.  The frames and underbody stuff deteriorate and rust out due to road salt, etc.   Get under it and check that stuff out, as this one is near ten years old.

That's really good to know.  Thanks.

[goosefraba1]

Quick question(s): my wife and i are soon purchasing our first home. Would you recommend the indoor or outdoor wood furnace? I assume you have one with a fan and flows into the duct work. Also, what are you using as a splitter? Thanks... sorry for the derail.

[Vic99]

I do not have a wood splitter.  I split 4 cords a year by hand using a maul (don't get an ax).  It is great exercise.  I'm only 5'8" and average build . . . lots of people could do it, yet it's not for everyone.

I have a Woodstock soapstone wood stove (the Fireview) on the first floor of my two story, 1500 square foot home.  I've enclosed a photo that I just took.  It vents out of a centrally located fireplace.  I've worked hard over the years to get my 1920 built  home up to an average insulation level.  Thus, this stove keeps my living room in the 70s, most of the rest of the first floor 67-70 and the second floor bedrooms in the mid 60s . . . all if the outdoor temp is 15F or higher.  Any lower and I need to supplement with natural gas, abit.  Over the last 7 years 90-95% of my fall-winter-spring heat has come from wood.

I do not like the outdoor wood furnances.  Very smokey and not as effecient.

Modern wood stoves burn very cleany IF you properly season the wood . . . typically one year for species like cherry, birch, pine and two years (three is even better) for denser woods like oak, sugar maple, and hickory.  Those that don't do well with a wood stove usually have issues with unseasoned wood or the stove is improperly sized or they have not insulated the home and/or taken care of air leaks.

Check out hearth.com.  Fantastic site for this kind of thing.  Reply or PM me if you have any questions.  I'll talk your ear off.

Best.

[Vic99]

Also, I have no fan or blower.  Heat circulates mainly through convection.  Nothing beats the feel of wood heat. 

Modern stoves (1988+ in America) with at least a 2 cubic foot fire box will easily get you an 8 hr burn on sesoned hardwoods.  Mine has a catalytic converter and a 2.3 firebox.  Very typical for me to 8-11 hour burn of qualtiy heat with oak or maple.

[Syonyk]

Your plan to hold out for a used F150/4WD is a good idea.

The F350s are big trucks, designed for serious use, and the parts are priced accordingly.

It's not a big deal if you're using it and can't do what you want with a smaller truck, but for snow, firewood, some plywood, etc, it's just overkill, and is going to cost you more in maintenance than a smaller truck.

Don't get me wrong - I love my F350.  But my life is heading in the direction of towing antique cars, and a 5th wheel trailer for long cross country trips with the family.  It's a very, very expensive vehicle to run - the parts guys at NAPA pretty much apologize every time I need parts for it, and my differential work ran me $2k (it was whining pretty badly, but I did upgrade to a limited slip).  I don't use it except for hauling or towing, though.

[Vic99]

Syonyk,

Thanks for your candor.  Fortunately I do not NEED the truck, right now.  My wife and I each have our own vehicles.  Still behind on processing firewood with a one cord pile of unsplit wood in my yard.

[hoping2retire35]

Do you really need 4WD? If you are going to haul a camper you will need extended cab for your kids anyways, so this does not sound like a fit. What you read about the 06 F350s being a really bad year probably had to do with the diesel engines, that was when a lot of new regulations came online and there were a lot of changes to diesels then.

If I were you I would check craigslist and autotrader in places along the sunbelt and get a 2WD extended cab truck with 100-150k miles in the early 2000s, should be able to get something under $5k. Sometime this spring or summer Ill be getting a 'conversion' van V8 with similar age and miles for family trips and hauling my trailer(for mulch, firewood, and lumber, downed local trees, etc.) so I have a smiliar MO. but the 4Wd vs 2WD can make a big difference in price when looking.

[HipGnosis]

The dealer, someone I trust and more than an aquanitance - not quite a friend,  replaced rusted suspension parts and will undercoat rest. 

I'm late to the party here, but I just have to reply.
First, I'm a motor-guy, aka 'gear-head', hot-rodder, motorcycler.  Dad and Granddad were professional mechanics.
Anyone that undercoats after replacing rusted suspension parts is NOT someone you should trust.  They are literally coating over your ability to check your suspension and frame ever again - and this is after you KNOW the vehicle has rust issues.

[Syonyk]

Do you really need 4WD?

If it's the bad weather snow vehicle, probably yes.

[libertarian4321]

Where are the people who come into every truck thread and howl about how it's un Mustachian and how all guys that buy trucks only do so to look manly?

Did someone give those folks the week off?

[mizzourah2006]

I didn't even know they made 3500s with 5.4L V8s. That's the engine size of a standard 1500 truck today.

Would you ever be carrying more than 2k lbs in payload in the bed? I would assume a 3500 with a 5.4L V8 doesn't even have additional towing capacity to a standard 1500, so really you are paying more for a larger payload. 

[hoping2retire35]

Where are the people who come into every truck thread and howl about how it's un Mustachian and how all guys that buy trucks only do so to look manly?

Did someone give those folks the week off?

Well, they can be practical. That is why I was saying get 2WD, not a diesel or whatever. If you have to spend $8-10k on a truck so you can get free firewood then either you need to buy firewood or just get gas/propane. At some point over the next 1-3 years I may get a truck but it will be super cheap, like $2500, but will still go through the rigors of practicality. 

I expect he also considers this part of his exercise but that can also be mitigated with gym equipment. However he did say he makes maple syrup every spring so I am guessing he may sell this at a profit. In that case it may be worthwhile to get a cheap truck, but just for firewood $10,000 seems like it is excessive.

[hoping2retire35]

I didn't even know they made 3500s with 5.4L V8s. That's the engine size of a standard 1500 truck today.

Would you ever be carrying more than 2k lbs in payload in the bed? I would assume a 3500 with a 5.4L V8 doesn't even have additional towing capacity to a standard 1500, so really you are paying more for a larger payload.

yes it does, gearing.

[Syonyk]

Where are the people who come into every truck thread and howl about how it's un Mustachian and how all guys that buy trucks only do so to look manly?

They probably haven't found the thread yet.

1k-2k miles/yr for hauling firewood, lumber, and getting through snow they can't get their other vehicles through seems pretty reasonable to me.  An old, beat up 4WD F150 or similar would work just fine for this, and parts are super easy to find because there's so many of them.

I didn't even know they made 3500s with 5.4L V8s. That's the engine size of a standard 1500 truck today.

Truck horsepower and torque have gotten sort of silly in the last decade.  A new F150 has more power than my old F350, and while it can't tow quite as much, it makes a pretty good pass at it - you can get them rated for up to 9k lbs towing.

The old semis had less power than your modern family car, and just went up hills slowly.

[paddedhat]

I like that you are holding out for the 150. I would strongly suggest that you think about heading south and out of rust country to find one. I'm in N.E PA. A few years ago I headed five hours south to DC to grab a Tahoe. It was about six years old, and a stupid good buy. When I got it back to my mechanic, he had to inspect it for a state sticker. He said that once it was up on the lift, every guy in the shop stopped and came over to stare at the undercarriage. They hadn't seen anything that rust free in a six year old vehicle, ever. The same truck from a few hours north, would of needed new brake lines, and the rockers and fender lips would of been well on their way to being eaten through. If you go this route, get the thing home, pressure wash the underside, let is dry, and spray the snot out of it with "Fluid Film".  Repeat the process every year, and you will get another decade out of it. Good luck.

[JZinCO]

I didn't even know they made 3500s with 5.4L V8s. That's the engine size of a standard 1500 truck today.

Truck horsepower and torque have gotten sort of silly in the last decade.  A new F150 has more power than my old F350, and while it can't tow quite as much, it makes a pretty good pass at it - you can get them rated for up to 9k lbs towing.

The old semis had less power than your modern family car, and just went up hills slowly.

Haha, yes. I had a 2L 22r which puts out as much hp as some 1.4L now and couldn't go over 75 :).
 I also have a Detroit 6.2L which can go from 0 to 60 in about 6 minutes and it can't climb hills at high speeds but it can chugalug with some weight on the tongue all day along. Back in the day, hp went up more or less proportionally with cubic in.
Now the race is to the most hp to motor size/curb weight which is an awesome trend IMO.

[FarmStash]

I didn't even know they made 3500s with 5.4L V8s. That's the engine size of a standard 1500 truck today.

Would you ever be carrying more than 2k lbs in payload in the bed? I would assume a 3500 with a 5.4L V8 doesn't even have additional towing capacity to a standard 1500, so really you are paying more for a larger payload.

yes it does, gearing.

Probably does have higher rated capacity.  Most larger truck might have the same HP as a smaller counter part with same motor but have heavier suspension and brakes.  Y ou can pull something well over your rated towing capacity no problem just might take you a little longer and be tougher on the engine/trans.  It is the stopping and stability that is the hard part.