How bad is buying a $30K car?

[hucktard]

So I want to buy a truck in the $30K range. A slightly used Ford F150. It is not a total need but it would be very convenient for my lifestyle. I have a couple of rental properties that I do all the maintenance on and I mountain bike and kayak and go camping in the mountains and it would be very convenient to have a truck. We have a household income of ~$200K per year including our rental property income. We have one other vehicle that we probably owe about $10K on. Our family net worth is about $500k including equity in our three houses. We save probably $70K per year. The vehicle I drive right now I paid $3K for.

How bad of a financial decision is buying this truck going to be? How much time is this going to delay my retirement by?

[Vindicated]

Hey Huck!

If you need a truck for your wilderness trips and for fixing up your rentals, why not look in the ~$10k range?  Any vehicle isn't an investment, so the extra $20k could be working for you, while you get the same job done with a slightly older model truck.

I wish you the best of luck on your Mustachian journey!

[RWD]

I'd roughly ballpark that it would delay your retirement by no more than three months. But probably closer to one month, depending on the assumptions/baseline for comparison.

[neo von retorch]

How bad of a financial decision is buying this truck going to be? How much time is this going to delay my retirement by?

As mentioned, you don't need the $30k one to fulfill your needs. So it's unnecessary. To answer the other question, I think you omitted your expense number.

Let's say your income is $200k gross, and $160k net. You save $70k each year. So you're spending $90k/year. Maybe that doesn't matter... because if we just look at savings... $30k will decrease your $70k... basically you're giving up 5 months of savings. (If you then look at spending and time to FIRE and add in an estimate for investment returns, you could calculate how much the 5 months of savings actually costs you in time to FIRE - probably 7-10 months. Maybe more. But really you should use $20k as the real comparison number - the extra money you're spending over a $10k truck.)

[robartsd]

Your $30k truck is also likely to cost you more in insurance (you're likely to want more coverage). Hedonic adaptation means you'll likely want to replace the $30k truck with annother $30k truck to continue to support your lifestyle. What you're really asking is "How bad is increasing my spending by hundreds of dollars a month so that I can drive a truck worth $30k?". If the $30k truck costs you $5k/year, it increases you FIRE number by $125k (assuming 4% rule), while decreasing your savings by $5k/year. I'm with the others saying look for an older truck (or follow MMM's advice and consider an older minivan).

[Morning Glory]

+1 to an older truck. We proudly haul things and get around in big snow with our 1976 Chevy C10 that cost $2k. And it is a manual transmission and has 4WD. As long as it is running, we will easily be able to sell it and get our $2k back if we no longer need it.

[Ocinfo]

Have truck prices gone up with fuel being so cheap the last year or two as $30k for a used F150 seems high. This is really a do whatever you want to do type answer. I don't know your age but, assuming you're under 45, you're in pretty good shape with a $500k NW and $200k income. Even spending $30k is way below typical given NW and income. All that being said, you can likely find something nice for way less than $30k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FIREySkyline]

Would it be convenient? Would I enjoy it? Wrong question! ;)

[Fishindude]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

[Eric]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

LOL!  You sound like you could be right out of a commercial! 

Only trucks worth more than the median yearly income can be driven more than 20 miles at a time.  Otherwise, 100% will die.  Don't you love your family?!?

Give me a break.

Is it a terrible idea for someone making $200k+?  Probably not, but it's extremely wasteful nonetheless, considering a $10k truck would accomplish the exact same thing for 2/3rds less.

[EnjoyIt]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

LOL!  You sound like you could be right out of a commercial! 

Only trucks worth more than the median yearly income can be driven more than 20 miles at a time.  Otherwise, 100% will die.  Don't you love your family?!?

Give me a break.

Is it a terrible idea for someone making $200k+?  Probably not, but it's extremely wasteful nonetheless, considering a $10k truck would accomplish the exact same thing for 2/3rds less.

I would even go half way. Get a decently used Deisel truck even if it costs $15k-$20k.  Those engines should run for 300K+ miles.  It would make a great workhorse of a car for a very long time.

[JLee]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

Don't tell my $8150 Lexus GX470.

It doesn't know it's not a nice truck.  :(

[inline five]

I can tell some here haven't been truck shopping. A used truck is prohibitively expensive and defies the laws of deprecation. I would suggest in some cases it actually makes more sense to buy a new one and then sell when you are done as they depreciate so slowly.

Most <$10k trucks in my area are well worn and on their second motor or transmission, or on their way to needing one with close to 200k miles. No, a Lexus isn't a truck, no matter what it wants to be.

Either buy new or well used expecting to put a motor or transmission in it over the course of ownership. IMO.

[JLee]

I can tell some here haven't been truck shopping. A used truck is prohibitively expensive and defies the laws of deprecation. I would suggest in some cases it actually makes more sense to buy a new one and then sell when you are done as they depreciate so slowly.

Most <$10k trucks in my area are well worn and on their second motor or transmission, or on their way to needing one with close to 200k miles. No, a Lexus isn't a truck, no matter what it wants to be.

Either buy new or well used expecting to put a motor or transmission in it over the course of ownership. IMO.

Body on frame, transfer case, V8, 6500lb towing capacity.  The GX470 is a Landcruiser Prado in the rest of the world (and won FourWheeler.com's Four Wheeler of the Year award in 2003 and 2004).  An SUV built on a truck-style frame (as opposed to unibody, like a minivan) is close enough to a truck for me to call it one.

Buy a proper truck and it won't need a new engine at "close to 200k miles."

[inline five]

Body on frame, transfer case, V8, 6500lb towing capacity.  The GX470 is a Landcruiser Prado in the rest of the world.  What's next, the LX570 isn't a Landcruiser just because it has a Lexus badge?

Buy a proper truck and it won't need a new engine at "close to 200k miles."

Oh, I'm sure it's a great, reliable vehicle and if it makes you feel more like a man to drive it go for it. Now for putting 4x8 sheets of sheetrock or plywood in it...not so much help for the OP if he wants easy in/out.

My MIL has a '98 Landcruiser and FIL used to own a '95. Great cars, and I'm sure the Lexus is really nice but they aren't the same as owning a pickup truck for people who do a lot of maintenance work. There is a reason why contractors drive F150s not Toyota Landcruisers.

[JLee]

Body on frame, transfer case, V8, 6500lb towing capacity.  The GX470 is a Landcruiser Prado in the rest of the world.  What's next, the LX570 isn't a Landcruiser just because it has a Lexus badge?

Buy a proper truck and it won't need a new engine at "close to 200k miles."

Oh, I'm sure it's a great, reliable vehicle and if it makes you feel more like a man to drive it go for it. Now for putting 4x8 sheets of sheetrock or plywood in it...not so much help for the OP if he wants easy in/out.

My MIL has a '98 Landcruiser and FIL used to own a '95. Great cars, and I'm sure the Lexus is really nice but they aren't the same as owning a pickup truck for people who do a lot of maintenance work. There is a reason why contractors drive F150s not Toyota Landcruisers.

A minivan is better for hauling plywood than a lot of trucks are -- unless you're going to argue that a small pickup isn't a truck either.

My girlfriend has a "real" truck. I guess she's more of a man than I, if you think vehicle choice is somehow tied to gender identity.

Edit: I've owned three pickups, btw (and have been involved in purchasing decisions for others). The last one I had sold with 282,9xx miles on it and didn't need a new engine or transmission. Unless you live on an island, "there aren't any in my area" is a silly excuse to buy new. Go somewhere else and buy one. 

tldr;  I'm quite familiar with the truck market and your claim is BS.

[Syonyk]

I would even go half way. Get a decently used Deisel truck even if it costs $15k-$20k.  Those engines should run for 300K+ miles.  It would make a great workhorse of a car for a very long time.

Yup.  The diesel trucks last a long, long time.

Love mine.  Plan to keep it the rest of my life.

[JLee]

I would even go half way. Get a decently used Deisel truck even if it costs $15k-$20k.  Those engines should run for 300K+ miles.  It would make a great workhorse of a car for a very long time.

Yup.  The diesel trucks last a long, long time.

Love mine.  Plan to keep it the rest of my life.

I really want one...but can't justify it.

Maybe one of these days!

[shawndoggy]

I can tell some here haven't been truck shopping. A used truck is prohibitively expensive and defies the laws of deprecation. I would suggest in some cases it actually makes more sense to buy a new one and then sell when you are done as they depreciate so slowly.

Most <$10k trucks in my area are well worn and on their second motor or transmission, or on their way to needing one with close to 200k miles. No, a Lexus isn't a truck, no matter what it wants to be.

Either buy new or well used expecting to put a motor or transmission in it over the course of ownership. IMO.

As the owner of a $10k-ish truck (01 Ford Excursion 7.3), I wholeheartedly agree with this.  Sure the venerable 7.3 will go 500k, but the rest of the truck will fall apart around it.  I budget about $2k a year for repairs.  And I fantasy shop for a new, pleasant-to-drive truck every day.

[SC93]

I could break it down for everyone on how much money I've saved over the years because I always buy $2000 work vehicles but I'll let you use your own calculator if you're really interested. They usually last 2-8 years with no major problems driven daily. It would take me over a life time to use up $20,000. I'm trying to think of a major problem that I've had beside the a/c but I can't think of any. When the a/c starts having problems is when I buy another one and sell the old one for $1000+ which actually means I only pay $1000 for the next one. On the other hand, it's not out of line to buy the $30,000 truck that you want with your income, it's just not a smart calculator thing to do.

Now a personal vehicle is totally different. Spend what you can afford. For us as we get older we don't go by who makes it or what it is. The lil woman had a Maserati and traded it for a CRV. What I think is funnier is that one of our friends lives in a $3.75 million house and drives a Prius. lol It really does look funny parked in front of the house. So tiny but sure does help build the bank account. People prolly think it's the maid.

[hucktard]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess the main question I am trying to answer is how many more months of my life am I going to have to work if I get a 30K truck vs about a 15K truck, because I don't think I will go below 15K. I obviously can't figure this out exactly but it is probably just a couple months really. So I think if I have to work for the next say 8.3 years vs the next 8 years, it might actually be worth it to me to have the vehicle that I really want during that time. If it adds another whole year or two to my working years then it's not so worth it.

[FIREySkyline]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess the main question I am trying to answer is how many more months of my life am I going to have to work if I get a 30K truck vs about a 15K truck, because I don't think I will go below 15K. I obviously can't figure this out exactly but it is probably just a couple months really. So I think if I have to work for the next say 8.3 years vs the next 8 years, it might actually be worth it to me to have the vehicle that I really want during that time. If it adds another whole year or two to my working years then it's not so worth it.

At your income, it adds 2 months max (30k * 1.07^8 = $51.5k over 8 years, 15k * 1.07^8 = 25.7k over 8 years -- ~$25k difference). I wouldn't do it, I'd find more efficient, less "gee wiz this would be super nice and convenient" means to the end you're looking for. There are two things you have to remember:

- All these "well this only adds X months" decisions add up.
- I think you're coming at it from entirely the wrong perspective trying to justify the need for the truck in the first place. You're not taking into account gas mileage differences, or the fact that a Ford truck is statistically likely to require a lot more maintenance expense in 150k miles than an alternative vehicle. Maybe you need a dirt cheap 4x4 for the trips to the mountains, maybe you don't need something like that at all? Either way, think about the fact that you're paying closer to the $.50/mile cost with a truck like that vs. the more ideal $.20/mile of an efficient car for ALL the miles you put on it.

[Morning Glory]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess the main question I am trying to answer is how many more months of my life am I going to have to work if I get a 30K truck vs about a 15K truck, because I don't think I will go below 15K. I obviously can't figure this out exactly but it is probably just a couple months really. So I think if I have to work for the next say 8.3 years vs the next 8 years, it might actually be worth it to me to have the vehicle that I really want during that time. If it adds another whole year or two to my working years then it's not so worth it.

At your income, it adds 2 months max (30k * 1.07^8 = $51.5k over 8 years, 15k * 1.07^8 = 25.7k over 8 years -- ~$25k difference). I wouldn't do it, I'd find more efficient, less "gee wiz this would be super nice and convenient" means to the end you're looking for. There are two things you have to remember:

- All these "well this only adds X months" decisions add up.
- I think you're coming at it from entirely the wrong perspective trying to justify the need for the truck in the first place. You're not taking into account gas mileage differences, or the fact that a Ford truck is statistically likely to require a lot more maintenance expense in 150k miles than an alternative vehicle. Maybe you need a dirt cheap 4x4 for the trips to the mountains, maybe you don't need something like that at all? Either way, think about the fact that you're paying closer to the $.50/mile cost with a truck like that vs. the more ideal $.20/mile of an efficient car for ALL the miles you put on it.

Yep, plus the extra insurance and licensing costs since it is newer. And will you really enjoy those trips to the mountains if you have to worry about scratching the truck?

[big_slacker]

Why not a $15k-$20k Tacoma? They're absurdly reliable, smaller which is a benefit on tighter FS roads and trails but still very capable of hauling typical home repair stuff, camping gear, etc.

I don't think I'd buy a dirt cheap vehicle if mountain trips are on the menu. Like abandoning your truck and hiking 10 miles down a FS road in the middle of the mountains? Then arranging a recovery trip either trailside repair or worst case trying to tow it back? Nah, I'll stick with something more bulletproof.

[Cadman]

What percentage of the use would be linked to your rental maintenance? Seems like there's potential for a tax break here.

[nara]

According to my compound interest calculator $30k in 30 years invested would compound to $228,367 with inflation. This helps me a lot when making decisions about my needs and consumer spending.

[lemonde]

I can tell some here haven't been truck shopping. A used truck is prohibitively expensive and defies the laws of deprecation. I would suggest in some cases it actually makes more sense to buy a new one and then sell when you are done as they depreciate so slowly.

Most <$10k trucks in my area are well worn and on their second motor or transmission, or on their way to needing one with close to 200k miles. No, a Lexus isn't a truck, no matter what it wants to be.

Either buy new or well used expecting to put a motor or transmission in it over the course of ownership. IMO.

Body on frame, transfer case, V8, 6500lb towing capacity.  The GX470 is a Landcruiser Prado in the rest of the world (and won FourWheeler.com's Four Wheeler of the Year award in 2003 and 2004).  An SUV built on a truck-style frame (as opposed to unibody, like a minivan) is close enough to a truck for me to call it one.

Buy a proper truck and it won't need a new engine at "close to 200k miles."

Bingo. Trucks aren't any different from cars (or minivans or SUVs); if you want them to last, buy Honda or Toyota, the end.

[Turnbull]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

Wow. My $4800 Tundra with 14x,000 miles would like to have a word with you.

[SwordGuy]

So, how often will you ACTUALLY use the truck as a truck?  1 day a year?  2?  3?

How often will you drive it more than a 50 mile trip in a year?  Once?  Twice?

Harbor Freight has a great little folding trailer for about $300, even less on sale.  Putting the wooden bits on it, tags, a trailer hitch, etc., will cost less than $1000, including the trailer.

I use it for my rental business.   It's slightly less convenient than driving a pickup truck but it's also $29,000 less expensive than the models you're looking at.   And it's $9,000 less expensive than the alternate models that have been recommended.  Insurance is free for me (included in my car insurance) and the tags I got were lifetime ones.   I expect to have to replace the wooden bits every decade or so.   Possibly the very small tires too, so annual maintenance costs appear to be about $20.

[Paul der Krake]

Regardless of whether OP needs a truck (he doesn't), 30k is way too much.

A relative, who actually needed a truck for farming, bought a 5 year old Silverado with 100k miles for $17k. The previous owner was an idiot who bought it new, used to commute to his office job, and wanted a new one. All highway miles, not a ding anywhere in the body or the bed. To the untrained eye, it looked like the thing just rolled off the assembly line 15 minutes ago, complete with a premium entertainment system and Sirius XM radio.

[Syonyk]

Yeah, $30k for an F150 is pretty well absurd.

I've got a 20 year old F350, CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke, 4WD, with just over 100k miles on it, and I paid $14k.  I've put some maintenance into it, but it's way more truck than an F150 (rural property, lots of heavy towing, more heavy towing in the future once we get a 5th wheel for long travel), and cost me a lot less.

$10k is a better target for something like that.  You can get a decade old F150 with 4WD for under $10k easily if you look.

[SC93]

Why not a $15k-$20k Tacoma? They're absurdly reliable, smaller which is a benefit on tighter FS roads and trails but still very capable of hauling typical home repair stuff, camping gear, etc.

I don't think I'd buy a dirt cheap vehicle if mountain trips are on the menu. Like abandoning your truck and hiking 10 miles down a FS road in the middle of the mountains? Then arranging a recovery trip either trailside repair or worst case trying to tow it back? Nah, I'll stick with something more bulletproof.

New vehicles don't break down? There isn't a mountain I wouldn't take my work van (2001 Dodge mini van) up. And I'd bet anyone a brand new pickup it would make it up, back down and all around town for a few more years. New vs old really isn't a question since they can all break down after 20 miles. I saw a new car burning on the side on the road last Thursday and I passed it in my 2001.

What exactly is bulletproof?

[shawndoggy]

Yeah, $30k for an F150 is pretty well absurd.

I've got a 20 year old F350, CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke, 4WD, with just over 100k miles on it, and I paid $14k.  I've put some maintenance into it, but it's way more truck than an F150 (rural property, lots of heavy towing, more heavy towing in the future once we get a 5th wheel for long travel), and cost me a lot less.

$10k is a better target for something like that.  You can get a decade old F150 with 4WD for under $10k easily if you look.

for what most people use trucks for a 20 year old long bed 7.3 is not practical.  Not to mention that the towing capabilities of a new F150 vs a 20 year old 7.3 aren't that far off.  Sure, if you're towing a loaded skid loader all the time then you might need a 1 ton.  But most people don't.  And for just driving around there's no comparison in comfort between a new F150 and an old 7.3.

[Syonyk]

I won't argue. I've driven a new F150 ecoboost as a rental. Damned good.

But the cost difference is huge.

And a long bed is useful. As is the payload capacity.

Though the new ones ride like glass on stuff that removes my fillings.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Nothing wrong with buying a truck if you need a truck. I'm not convinced you need a $30,000 truck, though. If you can get a good reliable truck for $10,000, but you then spend another $20,000 cos it's purdy.... that's kind of silly, imo. But I'm not really a car/truck person and probably don't appreciate the finer points of why the more expensive one is better.

Let's compare it to coats. I like coats. I'm in the market for a good new winter coat, pure wool or cashmere or something. I could get one for $150 ish at a cheaper store or maybe second hand. I might allow myself to spend another $150 on "purdy", but I'm sure as hell not paying $800, hella purdy or not.

[big_slacker]

Why not a $15k-$20k Tacoma? They're absurdly reliable, smaller which is a benefit on tighter FS roads and trails but still very capable of hauling typical home repair stuff, camping gear, etc.

I don't think I'd buy a dirt cheap vehicle if mountain trips are on the menu. Like abandoning your truck and hiking 10 miles down a FS road in the middle of the mountains? Then arranging a recovery trip either trailside repair or worst case trying to tow it back? Nah, I'll stick with something more bulletproof.

New vehicles don't break down? There isn't a mountain I wouldn't take my work van (2001 Dodge mini van) up. And I'd bet anyone a brand new pickup it would make it up, back down and all around town for a few more years. New vs old really isn't a question since they can all break down after 20 miles. I saw a new car burning on the side on the road last Thursday and I passed it in my 2001.

What exactly is bulletproof?

I think we have different definitions of going to the mountains. If your minivan has 4Lo, 8+ inches of ground clearance and good approach/departure angles you could definitely make it up to go camping with me and the kiddos.

I didn't mention new trucks at all, not sure why you brought that up. If you want to argue that dirt cheap vehicles are just a coin flip with new or newer ones  despite years, miles, wear, damage, etc. then you can. Just not with me, I'm not interested.

Bulletproof. As in a proven track record of extreme reliability even under rough conditions. Not that the taco (or 4runner, or FJ, same/similar platforms) is the only vehicle like this, but since the OP specifically talked about doing things that might require an adventuremobile and these vehicles are almost the default for this type of activity due to their 'bulletproofness'..... my recommendation stands.

[Dicey]

Just gonna throw this out there...

DH is a Painting Contractor by trade. In 2002 he bought a brand-new white (so cliche, I know) Ford F150 Extra Cab. He paid $20k cash for it. It still looks beautiful and it only has 90k miles. He does his own maintenance and has never had any trouble with it. He recently found a shell for it for $200 on CL. It was faded red, so he painted it to match. He hopes to keep it for at least another decade.

His current job provides a company truck and he walks to his office. We flip and BRRR houses, so it still comes in very, very handy.

My point is: for him, this truck made perfect sense. If you think it makes the same kind of sense in your situation, well then, there's your answer.

[paddedhat]

If you want a nice truck $30k or more is the going rate.  Sounds like you have some money, pay cash for it.  A $10k truck is going to be well worn and probably not reliable for long trips.

LOL, a few months back I paid $8800 for a 15 YO Chevy Silverado 1500 4wd, extended cab. It has less than 100K on it, it came with a 3/4" thick stack of paper, fifteen years worth of repair, and maintenance receipts that exceeded my purchase. It was owned by the classic little old man, and it looks and run like a five year old truck.  It takes a while to find the needle in the manure pile, when it comes to used trucks. but it's worth it. My mechanic did a bit of work to it, and when I picked it up he said, "damn, that's a nice truck, what did it cost you?" When I told him, he replied that I got a hell of a deal.

OTOH, my son's $45K 2015 F150 is still grinding the cam chain on start up. It was in for major engine work a few months ago, generating a $4K bill. The repair failed and the dealer did it again at N/C. The repair is now failing for a third time. The 2017 loaner he was using had a trans. that stumbled and hunted for the right gear, and on a dirt road, the brakes locked and slammed him into the wheel. My old truck is exponentially more reliable than his, and was less than 20% of the cost.

Doesn't matter what you need or want, being a patient educated shopper, will pay off, even if you end up buying something a thousand miles away. We bought our gas engined, low end motorhome  three years ago.  The new ones we were interested in listed for roughly $160K and sold for  $120k. After a long search, I found one 700 miles away. It was seven years old, with 28K miles. It was the cleanest, newest looking, best maintained seven year old RV I have ever seen. The original owner had a pole barn built to store it in, and it spent most of it's life indoors.  We paid $40K or roughly 30% of what a new one would of been. It's now got 80K miles on it, and it's been as reliable as an anvil.  Had we bought the new one, depreciation alone would of exceeded our $40K purchase on this one.

As you might of guessed, pigs will fly before I drop $30K on a used truck,  LOL.

[spokey doke]

good entertainment here, and I won't enter the competition to establish my truck cred ("Well I have...and I only paid...and I do....).

Actually reading your OP, it sounds like a reliable truck would be a really good thing for you...both for work and for play.

I'd spend some time sussing out the lower price range on trucks and see what you can find.  You might be surprised.  And if you can't find something that suits you, then do what you need to do.

Of course you'll get slapped around here for asking the question, and that can be really helpful.  But no one else here is in your position, so you only have to suit yourself.

[The Happy Philosopher]

So I want to buy a truck in the $30K range. A slightly used Ford F150. It is not a total need but it would be very convenient for my lifestyle. I have a couple of rental properties that I do all the maintenance on and I mountain bike and kayak and go camping in the mountains and it would be very convenient to have a truck. We have a household income of ~$200K per year including our rental property income. We have one other vehicle that we probably owe about $10K on. Our family net worth is about $500k including equity in our three houses. We save probably $70K per year. The vehicle I drive right now I paid $3K for.

How bad of a financial decision is buying this truck going to be? How much time is this going to delay my retirement by?

To answer the original question, with an income over 200k per year the difference between a 30k truck and a 15k truck is negligible. That's about a month of work. There is a slightly higher insurance carrying cost, and probably a slightly lower maintenance cost. What will get you is the hedonic adaption and change in habits that comes with it. If you find yourself wanting to buy new cars every 5 years because of this then obviously that is a whole new can of worms.

The perplexing question I have is why do you owe 10k on another vehicle with that income? At that level of income and wealth pay for your cars in cash. Having to write a check for 30k will make you really confirm the truck is something you want.

[shawndoggy]

The perplexing question I have is why do you owe 10k on another vehicle with that income? At that level of income and wealth pay for your cars in cash. Having to write a check for 30k will make you really confirm the truck is something you want.

haha this is a GREAT point.  I'm a car guy and I love cars.  Owning them driving them, and getting new (to me) cars.  But I'm also semi frugal and I hate owing anybody anything.  So I'm the serial $15-20k car guy. 

Problem being I've discovered with the low depreciation with trucks, you really have to wait to 100k miles to find something even remotely close to my price point. In my region they just don't depreciate that fast (conssider a similar vintage/miles bmw or mercedes in comparison and they're very cheap vs original sales price).

Not to mention that right now there are pretty decent incentives on new trucks.  You can get a real nice ram 1500 for $35k, 37K with leather and lots of creature comforts.  Or a 4-5 year old one with 50k for $30k.  To me, buying the first five years of "brand new" for only $5-7K seems like a pretty decent deal, really.

Till I go to stroke the check.  Then I climb back in my 17 year old rig and say one more year....

[hucktard]

So, how often will you ACTUALLY use the truck as a truck?  1 day a year?  2?  3?

How often will you drive it more than a 50 mile trip in a year?  Once?  Twice?

Harbor Freight has a great little folding trailer for about $300, even less on sale.  Putting the wooden bits on it, tags, a trailer hitch, etc., will cost less than $1000, including the trailer.

I use it for my rental business.   It's slightly less convenient than driving a pickup truck but it's also $29,000 less expensive than the models you're looking at.   And it's $9,000 less expensive than the alternate models that have been recommended.  Insurance is free for me (included in my car insurance) and the tags I got were lifetime ones.   I expect to have to replace the wooden bits every decade or so.   Possibly the very small tires too, so annual maintenance costs appear to be about $20.

I will probably use the truck as a truck 50-100 days per year, but could get by without it for most of those days. There are probably only 10 days a year or so where I really NEED a truck. Lets face it, none of us NEED most of the things we have. We could all live under a tarp eating beans and rice all the time.

I actually bought one of those Harbor Freight Trailers last year. It was fine for hauling stuff around town, but there is no way I would trust it on long road trips over rough gravel roads, so I sold it. You get what you pay for. I also don't have a good place to store a trailer. I don't want to have to attach a trailer every time I need to load something. Don't get me wrong, trailers are useful, but they are not the same thing as a truck.

[hucktard]

Have truck prices gone up with fuel being so cheap the last year or two as $30k for a used F150 seems high. This is really a do whatever you want to do type answer. I don't know your age but, assuming you're under 45, you're in pretty good shape with a $500k NW and $200k income. Even spending $30k is way below typical given NW and income. All that being said, you can likely find something nice for way less than $30k.


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New F150s with a crewcab start around $40K, and go up past $65K. $30K for a truck like this is a pretty decent price.

[shawndoggy]

it's a VERY decent price, especially if the mileage is reasonable.  IMHO, the very low depreciation on trucks actually favors buying new.  The warranty definitely has some value.

[neo von retorch]

it's a VERY decent price, especially if the mileage is reasonable.  IMHO, the very low depreciation on trucks actually favors buying new.  The warranty definitely has some value.

As the owner of a 2014 Silverado... my experience is "new" is $35k+ and "lightly used" is "$28-33k." And "lightly used" seems to be anything from 1-8 years old with 5k - 100k miles on it. There is steep depreciation off new... but it doesn't seem to save you much to get a 5 year old truck with 100k on it. Might as well get 2-3 years old with 20-40k on it instead.

[DoubleDown]

I find that MMM's rule of thumb to spend no more than 2% of one's net worth on a car/vehicle is very wise. For the OP, that's $10k.

[robartsd]

I also don't have a good place to store a trailer.

A trailer doesn't take up any more space than a truck (though in my area a truck can park on the curb, to park a trailer on the curb requires it be attached to a tow vehicle and HOAs may have rules prohibiting trailers in a front driveway). Renting trailer storage would be cheaper than owning a second vehicle, but also even more hassle when you need to use it - getting close to the point where you'd be better off renting a trailer as needed.

[shawndoggy]

As the owner of a 2014 Silverado... my experience is "new" is $35k+ and "lightly used" is "$28-33k." And "lightly used" seems to be anything from 1-8 years old with 5k - 100k miles on it. There is steep depreciation off new... but it doesn't seem to save you much to get a 5 year old truck with 100k on it. Might as well get 2-3 years old with 20-40k on it instead.

I fantasy shop a new truck like almost every day, and for me, slightly used (2-3 years old, 20-40k miles) and private party would be a huge swing vs brand new because I wouldn't pay sales tax on private party purchase here.  Nonetheless, actually finding a low miles well cared for used truck at a good discount to new is pretty difficult, especially private party.  If I have to buy from a dealer and pay sales tax anyway, the value of the warranty and incentive financing can make the new vehicle almost a wash to the true cost of ownership of the used vehicle.  Then factor in the value of being able to get it optioned the way you want, vs. hunting in a 500 mile radius for the one equipped the way you want it (I'm kinda peculiar about wanting all of the towing upgrades).

Go look at the volume dealers right now -- the incentives are pretty crazy because car sales are down.  While GM and Ford have both been mentioned here, a RAM, for instance, can be had for under 37k very well equipped (crewcab, 4x4, leather, nav, etc).  They don't depreciate to 30 until they're out of warranty.

Shoot, here's a laramie for under 34! http://www.elkgrovedodge.net/new/Ram/2017-Ram-1500-0c778e7b0a0e0ae83b2315908beaf35d.htm

That truck will be very hard to find right now 2-3 years old for under 29.

[Indexer]

My dad, who isn't mustachian by any means... recently bought an old Jeep Cherokee for $2,500.

He got it just in case he needs to haul stuff, pull something, or go off road/drive in snow. His primary car is a fuel efficient Honda because he drives a lot for work.

Oh, and the air conditioning still works!!!

Unless you have a work truck, per MMM's definition, I can't fathom why you would spend so much money on a truck.

[rockwater]

We're in the midst of deciding on another vehicle similar to this situation. Currently we've got a subaru mustachian wagon that's been great and only cost $1800. We'd obviously keep the grocery-getter, but I've got my eye on leasing a new (double cab/long bed) 4x4 Tacoma. And here's a few reasons why:

I can write off a large portion of a lease payment/insurance/etc being an independent contractor..  Whereas if I bought, that's a huge chunk that could be invested at a higher rate over the course of time. Taking a loan out for one would require a larger down payment, and would equate to a larger payment each month and only be able to write off the business use percentage on the interest of the loan. Not to mention the fact DW and I would be splitting payments, regardless.

Toyota's are best known for holding their value; especially in my area of the Northwest. Residual value on newly leased Tacoma's is between 70-75%. And the key would be to absolutely purchase after the lease ends at a low interest rate through a credit union. If I decided to, even if I maxed out a 36k mile lease term and owed 22k on a ~31k truck, I could sell it for the local going rate of around 28k and get a good chunk back. But we'd most likely keep it.

We also do a lot of outdoor activities, road trips and weekend warrior projects that definitely warrant a solid, reliable truck. Taking a subaru wagon in the backcountry isn't ideal, and I don't like spending money on alignments or new tires after the fact. DW and I can rig the bed of the truck up to make it into a "tiny camper" with a canopy shell... so that covers our camping rig as well. And we drive less than 10k miles/year... even if we made it to 200k miles.. that's 20 years of good use!

Although there's lots to go over, both positive and negative, figuring out which outweighs the other has been racking my brain for the past couple years.