Author Topic: How are we doing?  (Read 10545 times)

LiseE

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How are we doing?
« on: April 16, 2014, 10:50:32 AM »
Hi everybody .. I've been enjoying this blog for several weeks now.  I'm a total newbie but I know one thing and I want FIRE more than anything else and I'm on FIRE to get it done!   I'm already committed to trading in my premium gas guzzling car .. we went to test drive several more fuel effiecient cars .. and I'm looking at used cars as well.   We have some serious debt (CC debt and deep into our HELOC right now after a major renovation) .. but my hubby and I have excellent salaries (160k+ after taxes) to get us out of the hole in four years time and that's a conservative number.  I've been up late putting together a spreadsheet of expenses and incomes and I'm sure we can do even better than 4 years.

We are both 45 and have two little boys ages 8 and 6.  I don't want to miss any more of their growing up years.  I (the mom) would like to retire from corporate life as soon as we get a handle on our debt. 

We currently have 450K in our combined 401K's and we give combined 15% of our salaries which is 100 matched.  We also have an additional 100K in a retirement account I inherited from my brother. 

We also have 300K in equity in our home.

Regarding the 401K, when I crunch the numbers, if we just let that sit without further contributions, at 5% .. in 20 years it would be worth 1.2M. 

I realize we need to focus on getting totally out of debt but I'm concerned that our investment timeline isn't that long so should we also be investing as we paydown the debt or are we looking ok with what we have in assets right now?  I will continue to work while the boys are at school during the day .. I have a small photography business on the side and would build on the business I currently have .. I just want to enjoy the kids while they are little (I'm afraid i've already missed this window) .. but I'm working on the premise Better Late than Never.

Thoughts?

PS .. While it's only been a few weeks, I'm having a hard time bringing the hubby on board .. I REALLY want to cancel our cable TV but I know I'm pushing too hard on this one .. for now at least .. thoughts?

Thanks!!

- LMC

Eric

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 12:00:44 PM »
I was going to ask how much debt and at what interest rates but...

We currently have 450K in our combined 401K's and we give combined 15% of our salaries which is 100 matched.  We also have an additional 100K in a retirement account I inherited from my brother. 

Wow, that is incredible!  That's an amazing match and there's pretty much no interest rate that's costing you more than you're earning by contributing to your 401k with that match.  So my suggestion would be to work the expenses side of the equation to crush that debt and leave the investment side alone because of all of this free money you're getting.

And, not to sound like a jerk, but it's not really surprising that your husband isn't on board yet.  So far, you haven't laid out a single benefit for him, only you. (that's you've told us anyway)

1967mama

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 12:10:58 PM »
Good on ya for stepping back and taking  look at all this!  One suggestion is to NOT buy a brand new car. The depreciation is HUGE -- there are lots and lots of perfectly acceptable used cars out there. As a SAHM myself, I can say that you probably won't regret retiring from corporate life to be around more for your boys, and it provides you so much time to work on all the little ways to pay off debt,  like grocery bills (i.e.: cooking more from scratch).  Good luck and keep us posted!

mxt0133

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 12:45:43 PM »
I would recommend posting a case study and share the expense side of things.  That way we can give you more specific and actionable recommendations.

As far as getting your spouse on board, there are a few threads on here that discuss those.  Some people are open to dialog and discussion, this did not work on my wife.  So I took the lead and cut back and minimized as much as I could personally, eventually she saw that it wasn't so bad and started adopting and being open to cutting back.  Sure it took longer that I wanted it but it was less stressful on our relationship and will pay huge dividends in the future.

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 12:47:06 PM »
Thanks for the feedback and Eric, you're not being a jerk at all .. My post was very one sided.  As I've been reading through this blog I've been sharing with my husband the thinking that if we were to take a look at the big picture we both want the same thing ... happiness.  That really calculates into having the freedom to do what we want, when we want.  I asked him if we hit powerball tomorrow would he keep his current job?  I challenged him to think about what he would do?  While he loves his work (technology) I know for a fact he'd love to chuck his job and do it somewhere else .. just having the freedom to make those decisions is what FIRE is all about. 

He's brilliant at what he does but he also loves his leisure time (don't we all :) ) ... my pitch to him is for us to work toward being FI because life is short .. wouldn't it be amazing to have the power to spend our time however we want? 

Until I found this board I too was brainwashed with thinking I was going to have to work until 65 in order to have enough to retire and put our kids through college .. but I want to enjoy my time on this planet while I still have some vigor and ability to do stuff! 

I might have found this place a little late in the game but it's also a game changer for my children .. and how I want them to have this same freedom when the grow up.

It's difficult because I'm 24X7 reading this blog and ordering books recommended on this site .. and my hubster is like "What's with her?"  He's going to kill me later tonight when I suggest getting an roku3 and antennae so we can cancel our cable subscription!  This might be my last post!  LOL!

I've been saying to him for months (before finding this site) that with our salaries why are we living month to month and even though I'm paying more than the minimum on credit card bills they don't seem to go away?  It forced me to layout every penny of income and expense to see where the bleeding was and stopping it.  What an eye opener and I'm so glad I did it ..


 

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2014, 01:04:27 PM »
So my original question was about our focusing on getting rid of debt and letting our accumulated 401k stay with our putting in 15% of income (all of which is 100% matched)

I get 100% match up to 6% and my hubby gets 100% match up to 20%.  I'm wondering if, once our CC debt is paid (hopefully by year end) should we max my hubby's contribution bumping it up from our current 9% to the full 20%?  Or leave it alone and push hard to paying off the HELOC. 

Basics on the debt we owe.   I have the rates on our spreadsheet at home but not currently with my in my head but the total CC debt is 29K (ouch .. there I said it) .. and then after that we owe 115K on our HELOC which is currently at 4%.

I will post real case study data tonight since I don't have it with me currently. 

I really thought we were never going to see the light of day and now .. with the numbers in front of me, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

MissStache

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 01:22:11 PM »

I get 100% match up to 6% and my hubby gets 100% match up to 20%. 

GUH!  Am I reading that correct that your husband gets a match for the first twenty percent?!  Holy smokes!  That's amazing.  Unless you have high interest rates on any of your debt, I would move his contributions up to the 20% max yesterday.  That is a lot of potential money to leave on the table!

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2014, 01:27:45 PM »
MissStache ... that was my reaction as well!  I didn't believe him but yes .. it's true.  I just really want to get CC debt out of my life before maxing this out .. I know we're missing the boat but I guess it's a psychological need to put that debt to rest!

TrMama

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 01:42:40 PM »
First: Good for you!

Second: DO NOT trade in your car. That's a surefire way to loose thousands of dollars on the car you're trading in. Instead, sell the car private party then buy a used car (preferably with cash).

Third: Slow down. Give your husband a chance to catch up.

Fourth: While you're waiting for him to get to the same place as you, make changes that don't affect him. Lead by example and cut YOUR expensive habits.

For example, while in the Starbucks drive thru you say to him, "Nothing for me, Honey. I brought my own coffee I made at home in this reusable to-go cup I found in the back of the cupboard, but you get what you like."

Cut the cable bill the same way you'd chop down a tree with an axe. Chop. Cut the most expensive channels. Chop. Cut another add-on. Chop. Cut back to the most basic package. Chop. Cancel entirely.

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2014, 02:13:48 PM »
lhamo .. funny you should mention Amazon .. that's a REAL sore spot with the hubster .. that 'One Click' spending button is killing him!  I showed him that HIS ( I factored out my $200 Amazon charges) Amazon spending for 2013 was .. wait for it ... just over 10K!!!!!!  I'm the money manager in the house so I know I'm to blame somewhat for letting that go on while throughout the year I'm scratching my head going "Where the hell does all our money go?" 

He's been good for a while but fell off the bandwagon and spent $700 last month and the month before buying DVD's and crap .. I making him return everything.  We have 1000's of DVD's which I'm also asking him to weed through and sell.  He's got a habit for sure but I think now that I've got our finances under a microscope he won't have anywhere to hide.

We also had a $1500 a month grocery bill and as the principle shopper I just couldn't make this work out in my head.  So this month I took out $300 on April 1st with the intentions to pay for groceries only with cash.  Well lo and behold, I made it to April 15th without even spending the full $300 and that was with my son's birthday party treats and party food!  Come to find out that when my hubby goes to the store to buy cat food, he's also taking out 'spending money'!  So .. there is another black hole that I've recently discovered. 

I'm not without my spending but nothing close to what he's spending.

How do I work this new way of thinking into somebody who has a spending problem??

I will post my case study numbers tonight.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 02:20:32 PM by LittleMissCuz »

Eric

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LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 09:46:25 AM »
Thanks Eric .. I did read those threads and had a good heart to heart with the hubby this morning and he's on board!  It will work but only if we are committed to it together and he agreed.  I'm sure we will have our struggles going forward but at least we're stepping off the cliff together!

As promised, I posted our finances/expense in this post:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/case-studyit's-never-too-late/




dude

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 10:31:45 AM »

Regarding the 401K, when I crunch the numbers, if we just let that sit without further contributions, at 5% .. in 20 years it would be worth 1.2M. 


That's a great start, but for a $200K income household, living on $48K/year -- 4% of $1.2M -- is going to be a giant step backward.  I'm guessing you'll need a lot more than this, so continuing to plow money into those accounts while simultaneously attacking that debt is paramount.  And of course, this being MMM-Land, you know the best way to do this is to go after the spending side of the equation.

ivyhedge

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 11:30:22 AM »

I get 100% match up to 6% and my hubby gets 100% match up to 20%. 

GUH!  Am I reading that correct that your husband gets a match for the first twenty percent?!  Holy smokes!  That's amazing.  Unless you have high interest rates on any of your debt, I would move his contributions up to the 20% max yesterday.  That is a lot of potential money to leave on the table!


I remember, fondly, living in Arlington, VA and watching the various defense contractors competing over which offered better benefits plans. Many offered anywhere from 7% - 14% matches, not counting "special cases". That was another life (and a time before several well known entities were public). Of course, finance tends to offer higher bonuses so ...

ZiziPB

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2014, 02:07:55 PM »
If you and husband make similar size salaries then I think you are contributing 7.5% of the total not 15% like you said (you are contributing 6% of yours and he is contributing 9% of his).   If you are making 200K combined it sounds like you are contributing around 15K per year.  Is there any reason why you are both not maxing your 401ks (35K combined)??  Especially with the match he is getting???

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 04:34:16 PM »
@ZiziPB - I'm contributing 6% since my company only matches 100% up to 6% and my hubby is contributing 9% currently with 100% matched.  We're not maxing his out right now because of the CC debt and crazy un-monitored spending that we've identified and will be clamping down on.  Believe it or not we are pretty much paycheck to paycheck right now but we've found where the bleeding is and can now aggressively paydown the debt.

I struggle with paying down the Credit cards or maxing out hubby 401k.  We will be out of CC debt by the end of the year if we attack it full force and then we can start contributing the max to his 401K.  Isn't there a max you can contribute though? 

That's what I'm thinking anyway ...

@dude - That was just a hypothetical to see if I was understanding how our current retirement account would look today if we didn't contribute another dollar to it.  As I mentioned above, we will start maxing out hubbys 401K contribution next year when CC debt is gone.  Also, regarding the 4% withdrawal amount .. if I look at our current expense and remove the mortgage payment we're around 4K monthly expense including property tax.  I'm hoping we would have some income from work that we both enjoy (i'm a photographer and my hubby a writer when we are not tech heads) .. or start some nano business.  But the 4% draw from our retirement should be enough of a cushion?  Also, the balance on the 401K's when we start drawing should be closer to 600K.

ZiziPB

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 05:00:31 PM »
Quote
Isn't there a max you can contribute though?

There is a max for tax deferred contributions ($17.5K per year) and then another max of $52K per year of employee and employer contributions combined.  If your husband would contribute $17.5 per year, he would get $17.5K match.  And the tax benefit too... That's a lot of money that you are leaving on the table. 

But, fair enough - first things first, you need to get your ridiculous spending and debt under control.  Based on what you said in your two threads, I strongly suspect you are not living paycheck to paycheck but actually spending way more than you earn every month (hence the $35K in CC debt).  You need to keep track of every single dollar spent for a month or two and see where that money is really going!  And then work on cutting it down!

Another Reader

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 05:10:06 PM »
Mint.com is one way to track all your expenses.  It's free.

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 05:13:22 PM »
Amen ZiziPB!  You are correct!  I use MINT.com and we are overspending each month and we have nothing to show for it.

Eating out at various little places around town for burgers or pizza .. nothing fancy and it adds up to 700 a month!  CRAZY!  My hubby has a very bad amazon habit spending $700 a month on mostly DVD's .. AHHHH!  We spoke about it this morning and he admitted it's a problem and we will be watching it closely.  It's mostly convenience items that get us since we both work (do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)   .. We actually used to eat out quite a bit more but the kids were getting too used to it and I had to scale it way back .. we eat out once a week now but hubby and I go out for a date night a couple of times a week .. I go out with girlfriends a few times a month, etc .. it adds up.

Regarding our 401K contributions .. my annual contribution is 6300 and hubby's is 10800 so I think we are maxing out our contribution, no? 

jpdcpajd

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 05:16:28 PM »
Max out the husband's 401k  You could take that 11% match out pay the tax and penalty and still be ahead of missing the match.  You are missing out on free money.

ZiziPB

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 05:42:28 PM »
Quote
Regarding our 401K contributions .. my annual contribution is 6300 and hubby's is 10800 so I think we are maxing out our contribution, no?

No, $17.5K per person.  Your max for two would be $35K.

plainjane

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2014, 05:27:11 AM »
(do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)

Is there a reason you can't wash the car _with_ your boys?  I remember many Saturdays when I was that age scrubbing the wheels.  (To be fair, only in summer, not winter.)  No, they won't do a great job at first, but IMO this is the perfect time to start.

MissStache

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2014, 06:37:59 AM »
(do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)

Is there a reason you can't wash the car _with_ your boys?  I remember many Saturdays when I was that age scrubbing the wheels.  (To be fair, only in summer, not winter.)  No, they won't do a great job at first, but IMO this is the perfect time to start.

Car washing:  I do not get this.  The rain washes my car!

MrsPete

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2014, 07:27:07 AM »
Good on ya for stepping back and taking  look at all this!  One suggestion is to NOT buy a brand new car. The depreciation is HUGE -- there are lots and lots of perfectly acceptable used cars out there.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say COMPARE all your options -- new and used.  Sure, the used car is usually the better option, but exceptions do pop up:  When I bought my then-new car 8 years ago, the price difference between new and late-model-used was less than $1000.  So for that small amount, I got the exact model with the color and features I wanted, and since it had something like 7 miles on the odometer, I know it hasn't been abused by anyone in the past.  I've treated this car like a baby, and after 8 years it is still in almost perfect condition.  When we bought it, we said we wanted it to last 10 years -- the way things are going, I think it might reach 20. 

While you're comparing options, don't neglect the option of keeping the gas-guzzler you have.  Trading in a car can be an expensive proposition.  You might be better off continuing to pay the high gas until you actually NEED to replace the car.  Beware SPAVING -- spending to save.  Many people who are new to the frugal world fall into this trap:  If I spend on ___, then it'll pay for itself (and more!) and more down the road!  Sometimes this is true, but often it's just a way to justify continued spending. 

Since you have small kids, I'll add this too:  Do not feel pressured into buying something big enough to tote them and all their friends.  I prefer to drive a small car, and it's what works for my family on a daily basis.  It's also much cheaper to keep.  We agreed that we'd buy this car, and on the rare occasion that it "wasn't enough", we'd rent something.  In the 8 years we've owned this car, we've only needed to rent three times -- twice for a vacation that included extended family, once to move our daughter in to college. 
As far as getting your spouse on board, there are a few threads on here that discuss those.  Some people are open to dialog and discussion, this did not work on my wife.
Spouses can definitely be convinced.  When my husband and I were still dating, he "didn't like to look cheap" -- but I taught him how to economize in little ways on . . . everything, and now he loves finding bargains.  In contrast, he had a long-view concerning retirement investments, and I'm very glad he pushed me to contribute heavily back when we were in our 20s. 
Third: Slow down. Give your husband a chance to catch up.
Go slow for yourself too.  I've been a saver all my life, but I've seen more than a few people jump on this bandwagon, only to give up a few months down the road because they tried to make too many changes at once, tried to learn too many new skills at once . . . and they burned out.
Eating out at various little places around town for burgers or pizza .. nothing fancy and it adds up to 700 a month!  CRAZY!  My hubby has a very bad amazon habit spending $700 a month on mostly DVD's .. AHHHH!  We spoke about it this morning and he admitted it's a problem and we will be watching it closely.  It's mostly convenience items that get us since we both work (do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)   .. We actually used to eat out quite a bit more but the kids were getting too used to it and I had to scale it way back .. we eat out once a week now but hubby and I go out for a date night a couple of times a week .. I go out with girlfriends a few times a month, etc .. it adds up.
The best way to get your spending under control is to start writing down every penny you spend -- this is a beginner's exercise; you don't have to keep doing it forever -- and then pinpoint "problem spending" and search for ways to address those specific needs. 

Let's look at car washes:  You're paying $15.  That's outrageous.  First, does your car really need washing?  I do like to wash mine after they've salted the roads for snow, but -- in my area -- that's about once a year.  I probably wash my car 2-3 times a year.  It's not really much of a NEED. Second, don't you have any options cheaper than $15?  In my area we have an expensive place (AutoBell), but we also have a drive-through place that does the outside only for $3 (and you can use their vacuums yourself for free).  We also have another place that does inside-and-out for $5 on Wednesday's "ladies' day".  Finally, you just made an ironic comment:  You said you'd spend an hour doing it yourself, an hour you could be spending with your boys.  What do boys like better than squirting water on each other?  Why not make the car washing "time with the boys"?  Future bonus: It won't be long 'til they'll be asking you for money to go out with friends, and you'll be able to say, "No, I won't just give you movie money . . . but I will pay you $5 to wash my car.  Do a good job; I only pay for quality."  Also, consider what you're teaching them, if you ALWAYS pay to have your car washed:  They may never really realize that it's possible to do it yourself, or they may think such menial tasks are "beneath them". 

The take-away: Whether it's a car wash or something else, ask yourself how you can get that service cheaper.  Chances are good that at least one cheaper option exists.

Let's look at eating out: You realize you're spending a lot of money on restaurants, and the upshot is that by going out so often, it's no longer a special treat -- it's just Friday evening.  It's very easy for a luxury to become an expectation.  First, cut back.  Decide how often you want your family to eat out.  When our girls were small, we'd go out (kids' choice) when they both brought home all As and Bs on Progress Reports /Report Cards.  It wasn't all that often, and they genuinely saw it as something they'd "earned".  Second, look for ways to do it more cheaply:  We always have coupons for buy-one-entree, get-a-second-free (or similar), and my husband and I have found a way to eat burgers at our favorite grill for about half price:  Instead of each of us ordering a burger, we order one double burger and cut it in half; since he's diabetic, he's getting less bread, which is good for him.  Similarly, when we get BBQ or chinese take-out, the plates are so big that two of us can easily share (and still have a big meal).  We don't do this, but it works for some people:  On the first of the month, put X amount of money into an envelope marked "eating out"; when it's gone, you're eating at home for the rest of the month.  And if you find yourself absolutely NOT in the mood to cook, instead of eating out, consider getting a grocery store rotisserie chicken and a tub of potato salad; it's more expensive than cooking at home, but it's cheaper than going out (plus no drinks and tip to pay). 

Of course, the other side of this coin is finding ways to make it easy and convenient to cook at home, so you're not tempted to overspend.  Three suggestions that I use heavily:  1) Use the crock pot, especially on days when you know you're going to have a rough day at work, it's nice to come home and see that your meal is prepared.  2) Use the freezer.  Many meals work very, very well in the freezer: For example, last week I spent a good two hours making two GIANT pots of my delicious homemade meat sauce -- we ate dinner than night, and I put away 10 bags of sauce into the freezer.  Now we can have 10 next-to-no-effort meals on weeknights, and I promise you, my sauce beats the best Italian restaurant!  3) Use your boys.  Seriously.  Okay, they're not ready for big-deal cooking, but they can manage soup from a can or boiling some pasta -- with supervision.  My mom claimed she had five children because there were five nights in the week; each of us was responsible for cooking (and cleaning) one night of the week.  Today every one of us is an excellent and enthusiastic cook.  Start your boys now on popping frozen chicken nuggets into the oven, and move them up to tacos and spaghetti casserole in the next few years.  The more input they get on the menu-planning, the more enthusiastic they'll be, and you'll be teaching them a valuable skill -- and making them into prime husband material for the future.  A couple years ago one of my girls asked for a waffle iron of her own for Christmas -- she's been making some pretty amazing Chicken and Waffles since she was about 12 -- the other was a little peeved:  Why didn't I get a small appliance of my own?  Since then they've each received a small appliance every year at Christmas.  My college daughter benefits most, since she cooks for herself (her current fave is her small food processor because she's addicted to hummus), but both girls LOVE that they own their own things -- and when the little one moves out, I'm going to miss that rice cooker. 

The take-away:  Eating out is an easy target, an easy way to decrease your spending.  Pick a couple strategies, and implement them today. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 07:29:57 AM by MrsPete »

dude

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 08:04:01 AM »
@ZiziPB - I'm contributing 6% since my company only matches 100% up to 6% and my hubby is contributing 9% currently with 100% matched.  We're not maxing his out right now because of the CC debt and crazy un-monitored spending that we've identified and will be clamping down on.  Believe it or not we are pretty much paycheck to paycheck right now but we've found where the bleeding is and can now aggressively paydown the debt.

I struggle with paying down the Credit cards or maxing out hubby 401k.  We will be out of CC debt by the end of the year if we attack it full force and then we can start contributing the max to his 401K.  Isn't there a max you can contribute though? 

That's what I'm thinking anyway ...

@dude - That was just a hypothetical to see if I was understanding how our current retirement account would look today if we didn't contribute another dollar to it.  As I mentioned above, we will start maxing out hubbys 401K contribution next year when CC debt is gone.  Also, regarding the 4% withdrawal amount .. if I look at our current expense and remove the mortgage payment we're around 4K monthly expense including property tax.  I'm hoping we would have some income from work that we both enjoy (i'm a photographer and my hubby a writer when we are not tech heads) .. or start some nano business.  But the 4% draw from our retirement should be enough of a cushion?  Also, the balance on the 401K's when we start drawing should be closer to 600K.

Then by all means, if you can vanquish the credit card debt by year's end, that is what you must do.  Then you'll be free to max out the 401k's.  Yes, max is $17,500 from the employee, and 25% of salary for the employer contribution, for a combined max of $52,000.

MissStache

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 08:29:10 AM »
  Also, consider what you're teaching them, if you ALWAYS pay to have your car washed:  They may never really realize that it's possible to do it yourself, or they may think such menial tasks are "beneath them". 


Gosh, this is such an excellent point and one that never really ocurred to me.  I think it is so important for those of y'all that are parents to remember that not only are you taking the reigns of your own financial future, but you are setting an excellent example for your children.

By the time I was 14 or 15, my parents were quite well off, but they still were extremly self-sufficient and lived frugally.  It has proved a lasting inspiration to me as I moved into adulthood.  I can't tell you the number of times I've though "Well my parents make 100K a year and they drive a used car/don't buy fancy clothes/cook at home/insert other wasteful habit, so I really have no excuse!"

It isn't your own future you are securing, but hopefully your children's as well.  And don't be afraid to involve them in the process.  My parents were very open with me about money and saving and I learned a lot from them, but looking back, I wish we had talked about it even more!

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2014, 07:33:22 AM »
We have definitely enjoyed washing the car in the summer time and this past summer was the first time we did it with the boys and they did have a blast.  I have fond memories of washing the car as a kid as well. 

I don't get it washed that often anymore and I'm sure I can shop around for cheaper options although I think the more we do it at home together the less time it will take as we will have developed a system.

Regarding our eating out, it had totally become an expectation from our kids .. we were eating out at least 3 times (sometimes 4 times) a week a few years ago and I clamped down on that not for the expense of it, but because the kids had grown to expect it.  We eat out one a week now .. I think that once we start an envelope for this expense we will be able to make better decisions about eating out.  Sometimes my hubby and I go out with friends for a fancy dinner experience and my hubby asked if those dinners will come from the envelope .. I said yes so we'll have to save up (carry over) money from this budget to plan those dinners.  It's process and we're at least starting it!

I love to cook .. I'm italian and my 'gravy' kicks butt too!  :)  I read a post on here where a family had all of there meals for the month planned out and I think she even posts them to relieve the age old question "what's for dinner".  I currently plan for and cook 4 times a week and we kind of wing it 3 nights and then eat out once.  I can do a much better at planning the menu and this will also help with less trips to the grocery store.

Love my crock pot too but I don't use it enough .. i have a great crockpot cookbook and need to find a few more good ones.

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While you're comparing options, don't neglect the option of keeping the gas-guzzler you have.
I love this term SPAVING .. I know I fall into that trap but something also keeps me aware that I'm doing it!  here's the scoop on my car ..

2011 Q7 with 67K miles.  I get 22MPG.  I've been putting super unleaded since it calls for 91 octane but I'm going to switch to 89 octane and see what happens.  Because it's a heavy car it needs brake pads replaced often (maybe twice a year) at 400 a clip.  I just had the 55K service which replaced spark plugs and many big ticket items to the tune of 900. (ouch .. and that was regular maintenance!  no problems)  So while I am contemplating keeping it and 'riding it out' I'm also afraid that something will go wrong with it and God only knows that that will cost!

Right now I was looking at the Mazda CX5 and I can actually trade in my car for the new Mazda without much of an out of pocket expense.  The dealer explained that I will only have to pay tax on the difference which was something like $140.  I'm not done negotiating with him but that's the current deal on the table.

I have read here that I should not trade it in but sell it myself?  Never sold a car before but how does tax work if I sell it myself?  Seems that with the trade in I'm saving thousands of dollars in tax?

He is giving me very close to the kelly blue book value on my car and when I look at TrueCar to see what the average people are paying for the CX5 he's giving me a good price.



Another Reader

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2014, 08:04:34 AM »
NEVER believe what you see on True Car.  I have never paid anywhere close to what these people say for a car.  This is a dealer tool.  Dealers SHOW you this source to get you to think you are getting a good price.  You are not.  You are overpaying, probably by thousands of dollars.  That's why the dealer is willing to offer you close to blue book on your car.  The package looks so "reasonable" to the buyer.

Shop the car instead without the trade-in.  Start on-line.  Look up the incentives and check out featured cars on the dealer websites.  Ask your credit union if they have a car buying service.  Don't use the service, because there is a middleman commission, but get a price.  Figure out which three dealers have the best prices and the least BS, and start negotiating with offers below what all the data say. 

You can sell your car yourself or you can trade it in, but don't negotiate the trade-in until you have a firm price on the car.  Look at KBB and Edmunds, but also look at Craigslist.  If you sell the car yourself, doesn't the buyer owe the sales tax?

Mazda products are not on my list of quality products.  I don't think you will save enough gas with a CX5 to justify the trade.  Why do you need an SUV? 

ZiziPB

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2014, 08:52:50 AM »
No car needs brake pads replaced twice a year!  And I would advise you to wait with the car sale, trade or whatever you are planning for at least a few months until you get your budget under control.  Don't get distracted by the car.

LiseE

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2014, 10:29:35 AM »
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No car needs brake pads replaced twice a year! 
It's usually rear pads or front pads .. not all of them twice a year.  Full brake pads once each year.

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Why do you need an SUV?
Thanks for the heads up on TrueCar being a dealer tool .. wow do I feel dumb!  I will continue to do my research before making a decision.  The CX5 isn't a SUV .. it's a hatchback/crossover.  I'm actually having a hard time trying to imagine how we're going to fit 4 beach chairs, a cooler and beach bag in the CX5 when it all just fits in my SUV now.  We also do a bit of camping.  Right now I have two camping chairs and all my son's baseball gear in the back of my SUV and there's not much room for groceries if I should make a trip.

I will say my hubby's 328 can fit a lot in his trunk .. I just think the hatchback will be easier and a bit roomier.

Gin1984

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2014, 10:33:44 AM »
Thanks for the feedback and Eric, you're not being a jerk at all .. My post was very one sided.  As I've been reading through this blog I've been sharing with my husband the thinking that if we were to take a look at the big picture we both want the same thing ... happiness.  That really calculates into having the freedom to do what we want, when we want.  I asked him if we hit powerball tomorrow would he keep his current job?  I challenged him to think about what he would do?  While he loves his work (technology) I know for a fact he'd love to chuck his job and do it somewhere else .. just having the freedom to make those decisions is what FIRE is all about. 

He's brilliant at what he does but he also loves his leisure time (don't we all :) ) ... my pitch to him is for us to work toward being FI because life is short .. wouldn't it be amazing to have the power to spend our time however we want? 

Until I found this board I too was brainwashed with thinking I was going to have to work until 65 in order to have enough to retire and put our kids through college .. but I want to enjoy my time on this planet while I still have some vigor and ability to do stuff! 

I might have found this place a little late in the game but it's also a game changer for my children .. and how I want them to have this same freedom when the grow up.

It's difficult because I'm 24X7 reading this blog and ordering books recommended on this site .. and my hubster is like "What's with her?"  He's going to kill me later tonight when I suggest getting an roku3 and antennae so we can cancel our cable subscription!  This might be my last post!  LOL!

I've been saying to him for months (before finding this site) that with our salaries why are we living month to month and even though I'm paying more than the minimum on credit card bills they don't seem to go away?  It forced me to layout every penny of income and expense to see where the bleeding was and stopping it.  What an eye opener and I'm so glad I did it ..
I'd say stop ordering books.  Take the family to the library.  Make saving fun.  Keep in mind that there are times you can't get them to cut things, like my husband and the Internet or his video games.  I like personal fun money to keep those restrained.

Gin1984

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2014, 10:36:42 AM »
(do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)

Is there a reason you can't wash the car _with_ your boys?  I remember many Saturdays when I was that age scrubbing the wheels.  (To be fair, only in summer, not winter.)  No, they won't do a great job at first, but IMO this is the perfect time to start.

Car washing:  I do not get this.  The rain washes my car!
We have salt that gets on the car, when it is snow season, so we do need to wash, lol.

cdub

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Re: How are we doing?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2014, 10:45:18 AM »
Amen ZiziPB!  You are correct!  I use MINT.com and we are overspending each month and we have nothing to show for it.

Eating out at various little places around town for burgers or pizza .. nothing fancy and it adds up to 700 a month!  CRAZY!  My hubby has a very bad amazon habit spending $700 a month on mostly DVD's .. AHHHH!  We spoke about it this morning and he admitted it's a problem and we will be watching it closely.  It's mostly convenience items that get us since we both work (do I spend $15 to get my car washed or spend an hour washing it myself when I could be playing with my boys?)   .. We actually used to eat out quite a bit more but the kids were getting too used to it and I had to scale it way back .. we eat out once a week now but hubby and I go out for a date night a couple of times a week .. I go out with girlfriends a few times a month, etc .. it adds up.

Regarding our 401K contributions .. my annual contribution is 6300 and hubby's is 10800 so I think we are maxing out our contribution, no?

Don't use Mint... use YNAB (use this referral code and we BOTH get $6: http://ynab.refr.cc/MSH6CWL).

Mint and Quicken just show you what you did with your money.

With YNAB you tell your money what to do! :) It's a personal finance app that allowed me to pay off $30k in debt and boost my net worth very quickly.

See my blog post here:

http://mortgage-payoff-club.com/2013/03/24/kick-quicken-to-the-curb-with-ynab/