Author Topic: House Hacking?  (Read 5340 times)

Alchemisst

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House Hacking?
« on: March 20, 2019, 11:02:37 PM »
Are many people doing this? What are the logistics like? I have been looking at buying a property but renting is cheaper than owning where I am so it doesn't make sense unless I can rent out a few rooms or something? Is it worthwhile, are you doing better than renting?

Edit: House hacking just means renting out rooms in your house or something similiar to make it more affordable.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 12:30:32 AM by Alchemisst »

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 11:54:42 PM »
I don't know what that means.  And not everything is "hacking".  Travel "hacking" is apparently just using miles for travel.
 Is house hacking like using points for hotels?  https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/wordsphrases-i-wish-would-go-away/

Alchemisst

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 12:31:13 AM »
Sorry I just edited the post, it just means renting out rooms in your house or something similiar to help cover repayments

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 12:36:43 AM »
Thanks for clarifying and I definitely object to your terminology!  But you don’t even need to buy a house to rent out rooms.  In college I knew people who would rent entire homes and sublet the rooms, often turning a profit.  That’s more of a hack if you ask me.

ecchastang

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 01:39:28 PM »
Thanks for clarifying and I definitely object to your terminology!  But you don’t even need to buy a house to rent out rooms.  In college I knew people who would rent entire homes and sublet the rooms, often turning a profit.  That’s more of a hack if you ask me.

FWI House hacking IS the correct term, and is a common way to offset the largest expense most people have.....their housing. 

monte0930

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 02:03:53 PM »
I did house hacking for about 5 years right after college, I put down 3% on my house through an FHA loan (yes I paid PMI). But I got a 4 bedroom house and had all 3 spare rooms rented out for most of the 5 years. The rent from the room-mates covered the mortgage and PMI, and I lived there for free just paying utilities. I only rented to people I knew, mostly co-workers and never advertised the rooms. After they all moved on, PMI was paid off and now I live happily on my own. The key is to make sure you can afford the payment by your self, so that you are never forced to take on renters that you don't get along with, just to make ends meet. Since I put extra money towards additional payments, I now have a lot of equity in the house giving better options in the future.

Telecaster

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 02:10:18 PM »
Thanks for clarifying and I definitely object to your terminology!  But you don’t even need to buy a house to rent out rooms.  In college I knew people who would rent entire homes and sublet the rooms, often turning a profit.  That’s more of a hack if you ask me.

FWI House hacking IS the correct term, and is a common way to offset the largest expense most people have.....their housing.

It might be correct, but it is still dumb  :)   We have existing terms that everyone already understands to describe renting out a room in your house.   When I saw the title I thought it was about buying fixer-upper or something.   For example, I installed an egress window in a basement room.  Overnight my house went from a two bedroom to a three bedroom.   Total cost was $1200 or something and probably added $20,000 in value. 

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 02:30:15 PM »
Thanks for clarifying and I definitely object to your terminology!  But you don’t even need to buy a house to rent out rooms.  In college I knew people who would rent entire homes and sublet the rooms, often turning a profit.  That’s more of a hack if you ask me.

FWI House hacking IS the correct term, and is a common way to offset the largest expense most people have.....their housing.

It might be correct, but it is still dumb  :)   We have existing terms that everyone already understands to describe renting out a room in your house.   When I saw the title I thought it was about buying fixer-upper or something.   For example, I installed an egress window in a basement room.  Overnight my house went from a two bedroom to a three bedroom.   Total cost was $1200 or something and probably added $20,000 in value.

Things Millennials are ruining this week: hacking


dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 02:31:04 PM »
Thanks for clarifying and I definitely object to your terminology!  But you don’t even need to buy a house to rent out rooms.  In college I knew people who would rent entire homes and sublet the rooms, often turning a profit.  That’s more of a hack if you ask me.

FWI House hacking IS the correct term, and is a common way to offset the largest expense most people have.....their housing.

What makes it correct?  How do you personally define hacking? 

ketchup

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 02:37:48 PM »
I did a bit of this with my first house.  Bought with GF (age 20/19), lived there with GF's sister and sister's boyfriend (the four of us in a tiny house).  Lived for almost nothing.  Eventually rented it out again when we all moved out, then to GF's sister and sister's boyfriend again, then to someone else, and then sold it on payments.  Did pretty well overall.  Check's still coming every month and haven't had to worry about the house at all in almost two years.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 02:45:44 PM »
It might be correct, but it is still dumb  :)   We have existing terms that everyone already understands to describe renting out a room in your house.   When I saw the title I thought it was about buying fixer-upper or something.   For example, I installed an egress window in a basement room.  Overnight my house went from a two bedroom to a three bedroom.   Total cost was $1200 or something and probably added $20,000 in value.
Damn! Was the pit already dug and the foundation cut? Last year I paid over $6k for an egress install in flyover country. Also, I agree that "hack" has become a corporate term that has lost its original meaning and now should be avoided if possible.
 

Now, excuse me as I hack my core competencies to leverage this win-win situation before opening the kimono to increase bandwidth.

HBFIRE

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 03:22:37 PM »

What makes it correct?  How do you personally define hacking?

"hacking" has annoyingly become one of those over used buzzwords, sort of like bandwidth/pivot/disrupt. 

dragoncar

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Wintergreen78

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 05:19:36 PM »
If you own a property and rent out rooms, you are running a lodging house. This isn’t a new thing.

Alchemisst

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 08:53:32 PM »
I agree that the term is annoying and I don't like it either, I used it because I think it is the most commonly used way to describe it, happy to change the title if someone has a better term to use.

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 10:05:38 PM »
I agree that the term is annoying and I don't like it either, I used it because I think it is the most commonly used way to describe it, happy to change the title if someone has a better term to use.

Didn’t meant to hijack your thread, and no need to change it.  Just a pet peeve of mine, and I was genuinely curious since I have literally never heard it called that before

ender

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2019, 06:40:14 AM »
I agree that the term is annoying and I don't like it either, I used it because I think it is the most commonly used way to describe it, happy to change the title if someone has a better term to use.

Didn’t meant to hijack your thread, and no need to change it.  Just a pet peeve of mine, and I was genuinely curious since I have literally never heard it called that before

I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

HipGnosis

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2019, 11:13:13 AM »
Obscure, pompous terms are a peeve of mine.
There is a (are some?) thread in the 'share your badassity' forum of 'Selling Tradelines'.  It/they are actually about renting out authorized user sub-accounts on your (high credit) credit card account(s).

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2019, 11:57:38 AM »
I agree that the term is annoying and I don't like it either, I used it because I think it is the most commonly used way to describe it, happy to change the title if someone has a better term to use.

Didn’t meant to hijack your thread, and no need to change it.  Just a pet peeve of mine, and I was genuinely curious since I have literally never heard it called that before

I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

Life hack #1: consume oxygen to sustain life (aka lung hacking)
#2: exchange labor for money (aka work hacking)
#3: expel waste compounds from your body (aka poop hacking)

Telecaster

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2019, 12:08:39 PM »
I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

Tim Ferriss mentioned he doesn't like the term "hacks."  He prefers the term "elegant solutions."   

dragoncar

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2019, 12:13:10 PM »
I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

Tim Ferriss mentioned he doesn't like the term "hacks."  He prefers the term "elegant solutions."

They typically have opposite connotations (hacks are rarely elegant)

tralfamadorian

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2019, 03:57:10 PM »
House hacks was the first "hack" term I ever heard and long before all the others where tips = hacks ==> 35+ rage.

To me, house hacking is anytime you do something to decrease your housing costs- renting rooms long term, airbnb, buying a multifamily where the other rents cover your PITI.

BicycleB

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2019, 05:17:06 PM »
I house hack. It's what makes me FIRE instead of an unemployed dude running out of money.

I like the term house hack. I could have sworn lots of people on this forum use it. This forum is where I first heard the term, IIRC. I agree with @tralfamadorian that it means anything you do cut housing costs that a normal consumer sucka wouldn't do. I would give plus points for layering several techniques to the point of getting extraordinary results, but anything that cuts costs significantly will do in my book. For what it's worth, I count your choice of net cost or cash cost as a legitimate measure of "cost" and "results". To me the term is about crafting a solution you like even if it looks bad to others. I guess I extend that logic to the term itself.  :)

I've been house hacking since the 1990s. I estimate my gains at over a quarter of a million dollars, meaning that house hacking produced over half my stash.

Bought a house with 5% down in a cheap city where rents looked to be more than the cost of ownership. Specifically bought a 3 bedroom house with a "family room" that I planned to use as a 4th bedroom to maximize roomie rents. Specifically bought it partly on the guess that being in a minority neighborhood meant more house for the money in exchange for less status. The structure was estimated at $64k by insurance company so I got paid $19k to take a piece of land in the poor part of town. $45k cost (market price) but FSBO purchase. The owners had moved out and were renting it out at first. I originally rented a room in it, then kept paying my $175 room rent for nine months while the owners tried to sell the house themselves. Seller's wife got a real estate license to increase their profit on the deal but failed to make the sale because they asked $51k when market was $45k. The other roommates left when the house went on the market, I just stayed and waited, enjoying having a cheap house all to myself. I think that phase was house hacking before the term was invented. Eventually they sold to me for $45k.

Rented out the rest of the rooms, was cash flow positive immediately ($720 rent, $450 PI...not sure what tax was back then, but insurance maybe 40-50/month). Did no upgrades and had very few repair costs for a long time. Got lucky when plumbing broke and hail damaged the roof, because insurance paid for both. Replaced the AC once. That was the only large repair cost I paid for during the first couple of decades!

Over time, I received probably more than $160,000 of rent. The house itself appreciated about $300,000. I paid some mortgage and repair expenses, but even after accounting for inflation and the appreciation that the expense money would have had in the stock market, I am pretty sure that I'm ahead by over $250,000 in today's dollars.

With taxes and other expenses having increased faster than rent, I think that going forwards I am roughly breaking even compared to the net cost I'd have if I just rented a room in a similar house (which would now be about $500/mo ABP). I'll be cash flow negative temporarily sometime soon when I finally do some upgrades, but expect to be breaking even if I stay in the house and average out the the cost over time. Some more details about current house effect on FIRE are my journal. Financially, the house hacking has been a nice ride for me.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 05:53:31 PM by BicycleB »

badassprof

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 06:31:00 PM »
We are in a HCOL area, and bought a house that includes a separate unit,  2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment that we've rented successfully these last 10 years (about a mile and a half from a major university). Rent now covers about two thirds of our mortgage.  Although our income doesn't allow us to currently deduct expenses, our accountant is keeping track of them for when we sell.  And now, with the SALT cap, it helps to have at least part of the property tax as a rental expense.

We have been really lucky with tenants, with the exception of one.  It has helped that we will take pets--we have dogs and love to rent to folks who do too as there is a certain noise level that comes with fuzzy friends, just like kids.  Most of our tenants stay a few years, and have become friends.  We usually end up watching each others pets when we travel (although not always), sharing meals, etc.  We love it!

calimom

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2019, 12:58:40 PM »
I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

Tim Ferriss mentioned he doesn't like the term "hacks."  He prefers the term "elegant solutions."

They typically have opposite connotations (hacks are rarely elegant)

I believe the term 'elegant solution' is meant to convey that a situation has been made better and is benefiting all involved. It doesn't mean that one has put down the linen tablecloth and polished the silver while mulling over the problem.

And 'hack' does seem to have become overused, as most retooling of words often do. 'Pivot' as mentioned upthread, seems at the top of the list. I heard an advertisement on the radio for a 'hair coloring hack', advertising...hair color products.

Archipelago

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2019, 01:03:02 PM »
I bought a 4-family in 2017 using an FHA loan with 3.5% down. The whole story and all the numbers are in my journal.

In short, I'd highly recommend doing something similar.

PDXTabs

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2019, 04:43:03 PM »
Things Millennials are ruining this week: hacking

Meh, I mostly agree. Originally a hacker was an expert computer programmer, but a "hack" also has a derogatory meaning of being a poor quality solution. But I would agree that renting out rooms is neither expert nor poor quality.

Slow2FIRE

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2019, 05:36:35 PM »
Obscure, pompous terms are a peeve of mine.
There is a (are some?) thread in the 'share your badassity' forum of 'Selling Tradelines'.  It/they are actually about renting out authorized user sub-accounts on your (high credit) credit card account(s).

That massive thread on Tradelines has me personally rethinking the idea of getting housemates...how do I know that their credit score is real?  Could have crap credit artificially boosted by buying tradelines.  Surprising that so many mustachians sell tradelines when many are landlords and could even end up renting out to one of these people who aren't really credit worthy...even though you pulled their score and found it to be high enough.

Wintergreen78

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2019, 06:00:17 PM »
I think it comes from the idea of "life hacks."

Tim Ferriss mentioned he doesn't like the term "hacks."  He prefers the term "elegant solutions."

They typically have opposite connotations (hacks are rarely elegant)

I believe the term 'elegant solution' is meant to convey that a situation has been made better and is benefiting all involved. It doesn't mean that one has put down the linen tablecloth and polished the silver while mulling over the problem.

And 'hack' does seem to have become overused, as most retooling of words often do. 'Pivot' as mentioned upthread, seems at the top of the list. I heard an advertisement on the radio for a 'hair coloring hack', advertising...hair color products.

Actually - if you think about it restrictive land use designations are one cause of high housing prices. They make it very difficult to build affordable small housing. So buying a big expensive property that is more than you need is a hack!

At first, I thought the term was ridiculous. But this thread got me thinking more about it and now I agree.

The elegant solution is to get your local government to allow low-cost housing to be built. Since that is really hard politically, you come up with a hacked solution.

BicycleB

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Re: House Hacking?
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2019, 06:16:57 PM »
Things Millennials are ruining this week: hacking

Meh, I mostly agree. Originally a hacker was an expert computer programmer, but a "hack" also has a derogatory meaning of being a poor quality solution.

It wasn't just "expert." It was about learning about the details of a system, hence expertise in the sense of developing creative solutions. Developing creative solutions in housing by recognizing and exploiting unnoticed details or opportunities - that's exactly the original meaning.

Look at the 6 positive definitions in the early meaning of hacking below. Even the seventh derogatory one implied skill, not lack of quality:
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/a-short-history-of-hack

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!