Honest Answer: On a scale of 1-10, how mustachian are you?

[Frugal Consumerist]

Long time lurker, and this is just the post I needed to bring me out, since I definitely appreciate the Mustachian approach, and incorporate tenets of it, but still give in to the weakness of luxury.

I would I'm a 3 or a 4

My wife and I do have debt, but it's a 0% teaser rate on convenience checks that was put into our 401(k) to lower our tax burden by almost $6K this year and will have no problem paying off before the rate shoots up. We do have two cars, one paid off and one with a couple grand left on it at 2%, so while we could pay it off, the money is returning above 2% so we feel fine keeping that on the hook. 

We did just have an expensive wedding (though our two week honeymoon in Europe was paid for by credit card rewards!) and do have cable, though a relatively cheap package, so some definite weaknesses. Oh and we do live in DC, so our rent is ab-friggin-surd. We would look into buying a place, but we are not sure if we want to stay here long term, and given the price of real estate, we feel more comfortable renting.

We don't have expensive tastes, so we aren't buying top of the line anything, but we do search out good deals on nice things. We'll pay a little more to get, say Banana Republic clothes, but it has to be on pretty deep discount. We don't eat out often and when we do it's at a place that isn't pricey (Love me some Thai food). We BOTH have Republic Wireless (finally convinced DW that she didn't need her $105 AT&T plan and after I tested RW for 6 months, she got on board). We don't use heat in the winter to save on electric bills.

We both have good jobs that we enjoy, so it's not a sprint to retirement. We save about 30% of our pay each month which is pretty good given the little amount of effort we have put in until now. We are trying to save more than we did before we got married since we would like to have kids and that might spur us towards wanting to get out of the rat race. Got a budget app (Good Budget) for the new year which should help keep us on track. We needed something basic and didn't want to pay the fee for YNAB.

Looking forward to being part of the community and pushing my way higher up the scale (even if slighly so)

[lauren_knows]

I figured I'd finally weigh in.

I'd wager that I'm about a 5.

Like some others, I'm fully on board for FIRE, and expect to do so at the latest in my early 40s (33 now), but we're not necessarily frugal in all the right places which can tarnish the mustachian score. Rough numbers: $150-160k gross salary, $70ish-k/yr spending, ~40-50% savings rate, $500k liquid assets, $150k house equity, age 33, estimated FIRE, 40-45 depending on part-time work.

Pros:
* Wife and I both have pretty good base salaries (~190k total).
* We have no debt other than a mortgage, and we didn't overspend on a house according to the old 30% of your take-home rule.
* (both Pro and Con) We avoid daycare completely. My wife works 60% full-time, and I work 90% full-time, and my inlaws watch the kid 1 day a week.  This leads to a pretty comfortable schedule that doesn't require daycare costs. However, the loss of income probably makes it close to a financial wash.
* We put away ~40-50% of our income into investments/savings each month.
* I spend a lot of time searching for an analyzing for the best cost/value when buying just about everything. I'd much rather buy something for a little more money that will last a LONG time.
* Neither of us has a spendthrift hobby or passion. Wife doesn't do the stereotypical clothing shopping craziness and I'm not a the stereotypical IT gadget fiend. Good for the wallet.

Cons:
* Food costs. Though we do not eat at fancy restaurants a lot, and know how to cook well, we spend a ton on groceries. ~$1000/mo for a family of 3. I like to eat a lot of good meat, and like to buy organic meat when I can.  This is one area I've never even tried to reign in, but I'm going to attempt to in 2015 as a resolution.
* Overall cost of living.  DC is expensive to live in, in general. I feel lucky that we're able to only spend $70k/yr as a family of 3, but sometimes I feel like a major slacker on the frugality front.
* 2 cars. Because of the distance of my commute and time commitments from a 4-day work week, I can't readily bike to work. I am REALLY considering getting an electric-assisted bike to do fair-weather commuting, but I wouldn't/couldn't do it in the winter. So... still 2 cars.

[EDSMedS]

I'm going to argue with the premise a bit before answering.

MMM is not about saving money.  He is about taking a hard look at your life, asking yourself tough questions about "necessity" and "desire," and designing your solutions to optimize happiness.  Wealth is a byproduct, not a goal.

With that said, DW and I are at 6.

PROS:
- savings rate over the past 6 years (only ~3 w/MMM) = ~70%
- own one small vehicle outright, drive it <3,000mi/yr on recreational journeys
- cheap hobbies
- constant optimization of spending
- truly enjoy home cooking & doing our own cleaning
- we spend to our priorities

CONS:
- 2 jobs (eesh!) @40(+)hrs/wk, that often invade our psyche and determine our mood (when this requirement is done ~2017, we will shoot up to 8/9/10!)
- idiots about bike maintenance/repair!!!
- we own a dog
- we sometimes travel by plane
- we pay for haircuts (1-2x/yr)
- I spend too much time reading/participating in blogs, lol

[lauren_knows]

I'm going to argue with the premise a bit before answering.

MMM is not about saving money.  He is about taking a hard look at your life, asking yourself tough questions about "necessity" and "desire," and designing your solutions to optimize happiness.  Wealth is a byproduct, not a goal.

I have to agree with this. A lot of people, myself included, will beat themselves up for only having 40-50% savings rate when the rest of the country is saving 0%.  It really is about optimization and constantly viewing spending as an exercise in utility vs. cost.

[WYOGO]

Don't beat yourself up; Don't accept it either. Freedom is worth fighting for...

[soccerluvof4]

Compared to MMM probably a 2 BUT compared to my area probaly a 8. I have no debt and keep working on ways to save but we live in a bigger house than we need and kids play select sports but are good with food. I would say in truth were a 4 but wont be long and that number will jump to a 6 or 7.  We keep working at it so thats the main thing and probably started at a 1

[Westoftown]

Probably a 3.  We don't own expensive cars, but we do own 2.  We eat out some, and the wife definitely doesn't have my aversion to driving around everywhere.  Its the chicken or the egg- If I were retired we would spend less I'm sure as the convenience/money trade off would be different.

Kids activities, pets, eating out - hey wait lets make that a 2.

[johnny847]

I'd say a 7. Maybe an 8 if I'm feeling a little generous haha. There's a big con in my housing situation.

Pros:
*I cook most of the time.
*I've started to cut my own hair. But boy my skills are lacking haha
*I walk to work, and bike whenever I'm running an errand. This includes a 26 mile round trip ride to the Korean grocery store
*No debts. Use reward credit cards and never carry a balance
*Own a 2002 Toyota Corolla that I've only driven 526 miles since I got it 5.5 months ago
*Max out my Roth every year (no workplace retirement plan - grad student here)
*~50% savings rate (while this is lower than quite a few people on the forum, considering I'm a grad student I think this is pretty good)
*I've started doing clothes shopping at a thrift store
 
Cons:
*Paid a little under $12k in rent and included utilities last year when I know I could live with a roommate for ~50-60% of that. But part of my problem is I don't want to room with a stranger, and my single friends all have their own living arrangements.
*I eat a lot of meat, which can get expensive. But I don't think I'm too bad in this regard - I averaged $114/month last year in grocery spending
*Spent $1300 on bicycle related gear last year, that I bought new from Performance Bicycle. This did not include the cost of the bike (gifted from my dad). I definitely could have acquired the clothes for much cheaper.
*I did take a somewhat spontaneous trip last year - booked the tickets only three weeks beforehand.
*I have quite a bit of computer parts and stuff that I don't really need from my pre-Mustachian days, that I haven't sold
*I do eat out at Chipotle by myself on occasion. My one vice when it comes to eating out. At all other times, if I'm eating out, it's a social thing...but Chipotle is hard to resist!
*Wasteful with utilities because there is no financial incentive (all of them are included with rent)

[Caoineag]

Ultimately though the person choosing their number is also choosing their metrics.  And I'm surprised no one fits a 9 or 10 under their own definition of Mustachianism (i.e. everyone sees lots of room for growth - I personally am exactly where I want to be, and would have assumed others would be there as well.. at least a few.)

As I see "Mustachianism" as living up to MMM's values, I don't qualify for a higher rating. I like things he definitely would disapprove of and he will never change my mind on those things. As to living up to my values, both financially and environmentally, I am not completely there yet but getting close.

[Dyk]

MMM is not about saving money.  He is about taking a hard look at your life, asking yourself tough questions about "necessity" and "desire," and designing your solutions to optimize happiness.  Wealth is a byproduct, not a goal.

I would put us at an 8 currently (I am assuming having 5 kids doesn't penalize me, but realize some may think it does.  Wouldn't trade it for the world).  I see keeping this number a challenge as the kids grow older and are more exposed to the world outside our home.

I thought about listing stats, but's it more about 'designing your solutions to optimize happiness' ...... wow, writing this I realize I am not happy at my work.  So, I retract my 8, which is more based on spending.  New rating = 6.  Need to work on 'work'.

[retired?]

On the savings side, probably an 8.

On the spending side, probably a 2.

A decent income is what allowed both.....earned enough to save a lot, but also spend a lot without much care.

I don't know that I will ever aim to be as mustachian as many on the forum, but I am much more aware and I do pick up good ideas.

Improving the spending side depends a lot on converting my wife and two kids who haven't been that frugal.  They are not terrible, but like like most people they are frugal in some areas, but spendy in others based on their own personal preferences.  Need to better tie low spending with freedom.

[Wiggle]

4/10

Good
Starting reasonably young (29 now, started at 27)
Good career and decent income (Electrical Engineer, 63.5K/yr currently in Eastern Canada)
No debt, never carry a CC balance
Recently made the switch to bringing lunch to work everyday, took me too long to make this change but glad I did
Reasonable work commute (12 mins by car)
Decent savings: 23% of gross income going into tax deferred against til I run out of contribution room, also save about $8,000 into TFSA or non-tax deferred accounts per year.  Could be better but feel like I'm moving in the right direction.
Physically active
No cable or home phone


Bad
Cell phone is pricey, downsizing this is tricky in Canada
I'm only a seldom bike commuter
Bought a more expensive car than I should've at $8000 when a cheaper one would've sufficed.  Redeeming Factor: Paid Cash
More than a little use of alcohol.  Redeeming Factor:  I make my own homebrew and it is a very affordable and fun hobby.
Semi-regular use of marijuana.  Redeeming Factor: I use a vaporizer so it's efficient (I barely use a gram a month) and is not a significant health risk from the research I have done.
Buy silly gadgets.  Not as many big dollar ones as I used to but I have some silly hobbies that cost me a bit.
Eat out on the weekends more than I should

[partgypsy]

Probably a 3 or 4. There were times in my life I was closer to say 7.

So I probably don't fit here. But I find the threads inspiring so I continue to lurk.

I was assuming that 1=average American, but others are saying Average American is like a -6. I would have to rate myself much lower. I'd like to hope I'm better than 0, but I don't know.
pros I've always saved money even when in HS for stuff in the future or college expenses, even though much lower percentage than people here do, and now for retirement and kids' college. Not in debt. Family has 1 used vehicle, with me typically walking to work and husband biking to work (and often walking kids to or from school).
cons- have experienced alot of lifestyle creep, especially in eating/drinking areas, and general shopping.

[pichirino]

Some of us here are less so Mustachian then we would be ERE.
In my opinion where Mustachianism ends ERE begins,so a new scale of measuring would have to be created.
ERE peepz would probably start at level 9 or 10 of Mustachian principles.

[nawhite]

Some of us here are less so Mustachian then we would be ERE.
In my opinion where Mustachianism ends ERE begins,so a new scale of measuring would have to be created.
ERE peepz would probably start at level 9 or 10 of Mustachian principles.

There are actually a number of early retirement / investing forums that each have their own perspective, but they kinda fall into a continuum based on average annual spending of the participants (all numbers are VERY approximate and for illustrative purposes only):

>$75k/year - bogleheads.org
$40k - $75k - EarlyRetirement.org
$20k - $50k - mrmoneymustache.com
$8k - $20k - earlyretirementextreme.com
<$10k/year - cheaprvliving.com

So I feel that where "MMM ends" isn't necessarily where ERE begins. It may apply to annual spending but in my opinion mustacianism is more "spend on what you value, and don't spend on wasteful things that you wouldn't value if you really thought about it."

[DoubleDown]

I'm a 6.8443, give or take 0.0001.

[windawake]

I would say I'm a 7. Maybe that's ambitious and you'd rank me lower. I feel pretty solid about that choice though.

I spend about $20k/year, which hasn't really increased since 2010 when I started tracking, even though I was still in college then. I have no debt, no car, no house. I rent an affordable apartment with one roommate. I have a dog. I spend a large percentage of my money on food (bought at the co-op, CSAs, or farmer's markets) because it's important to me and because I host a weekly dinner night for friends. I buy things. I eat out. I travel. All within reason, though.

I make $54k/year and last year saved about 55% net. I think that's not too shabby for 26.

[Fishingmn]

Nice job windawake.

Compared to others here we are probably a 1.

While I'm quite frugal we do have a rather expensive lifestyle. Live on the most premier lake in Minnesota. Own a boat. Spend quite a bit on travel. Have cable TV & iPhones. Give 10% of our after tax money to charity.

On the plus side we have consistently save 20-25% of our income and all the calculators say DW & I can retire now (age 52). Spend hardly anything on clothes. Shop around for bargains. Have 11 rental properties that are debt free and will likely pay for most of our retirement needs.

We probably are a much closer fit t the E-R.org members but I do like the goals here and like sharing knowledge.

[windawake]

Yeah, and you give your daughter a "family discount" on rent. Since that happens to be me, I can't complain.

[Beric01]

We're more like ERE than anything. MMM buys things like alcohol and fancy cheese - not too difficult to out-frugal that :)

Same here. MMM actually replied to one of my comments on his blog post saying I was more frugal than he was. I don't own a car (bike everywhere), don't go out to eat, and live in a studio apartment. I can't even take advantage of credit card churning because I spend only $200/month on credit cards.

I guess I have only two cons:

• I live in a 250-quare foot studio apartment here in Silicon Valley rather than renting a room ($1000/month). I plan to fix this by becoming roommates with my brother later this year.
• My internet bill is $90/month (no cable, just internet). Comcast won't lower it (they have no competition here), and I'm not willing to switch to dial-up. Hopefully will be fixed when I move.

Some of us here are less so Mustachian then we would be ERE.
In my opinion where Mustachianism ends ERE begins,so a new scale of measuring would have to be created.
ERE peepz would probably start at level 9 or 10 of Mustachian principles.

There are actually a number of early retirement / investing forums that each have their own perspective, but they kinda fall into a continuum based on average annual spending of the participants (all numbers are VERY approximate and for illustrative purposes only):

>$75k/year - bogleheads.org
$40k - $75k - EarlyRetirement.org
$20k - $50k - mrmoneymustache.com
$8k - $20k - earlyretirementextreme.com
<$10k/year - cheaprvliving.com

So I feel that where "MMM ends" isn't necessarily where ERE begins. It may apply to annual spending but in my opinion mustacianism is more "spend on what you value, and don't spend on wasteful things that you wouldn't value if you really thought about it."

Interesting perspective. I'm on the $15-20K range right now, which I guess puts me on the high end of ERE, mainly because I do try to do one international trip a year - ERE suggests no travel. Jacob would also have me renting a room, which I'm working towards.

I checked out Cheap RV Living a few months back and it turned out to both be not so cheap, and to have a lot of risks in my city. Living in a car is prohibited and I'm a pretty law-abiding citizen; also I don't want to get fined or have a police record as I do have a fairly respectable job.

[jlu27]

Probably a 1-2...

Good
- approx. 45% saving rate
- no loans outside of mortgage (paid off student loan last year)

Bad
So many....
- Drive to work
- Eat out frequently
- Travel
- Clothes (cutting down though)

[johnny847]

I can't even take advantage of credit card churning because I spend only $200/month on credit cards.

Look into manufactured spending techniques. While I'm not quite as frugal as you, I definitely don't spend enough to reach some minimum spends for signup bonuses, but I've still been able to meet them via MS.

My internet bill is $90/month (no cable, just internet). Comcast won't lower it (they have no competition here), and I'm not willing to switch to dial-up. Hopefully will be fixed when I move.

You can't exactly call it a con if there are no other options. I don't really consider dial-up an option in 2015. And besides, don't you need internet at home for work or something?
Although I suppose it could be considered an option to move to a place that has better internet, but I'm not sure that moving to a different part of the same city would make your internet options any better.

[begood]

We're probably at a 3 or 4

Pros:

* No debt of any kind
* Two paid-for cars that should last us 10-12 years at a minimum
* We have almost exactly 25x expenses in our 'stache, but we can also predict big expenses in the next 10 years (home purchase or multiple years of rent in a high COL area, five more years of private-school tuition, then college for our kid), so we know the 'stache will get trimmed some.
* No desire whatsoever to "keep up with the Joneses". We're blessed to live in a community that values simplicity.
* After 25 years of marriage, I finally "woke up" and started participating in the discussion and work relating to our financial health. My husband sees this as a double-sided coin. ;)
* So far, I'm sticking with the mantra of "don't replace functioning technology".

Cons:

* Spendy, spendy, spendy. Clothes for the kid. Hypoallergenic food for the cat. Travel to see family. Private-school tuition. Wegman's. Wawa.
* We spend truly outrageous amounts for communications - cell phones, mobile broadband internet, satellite TV - to cope with living in an isolated area where we can't get cable internet/wifi home phone or FIOS.
* We bought two new cars pre-MMM - one in 2012, one in 2013.
* I don't use YNAB or anything else to budget. I spends what I spends, and my basic approach is... spend less!

[AnAmericanAbroad]

As others have pointed out, one problem with this is how to grade yourself. It's like asking someone if they're middle class, 95% of people say yes since they see people above them and below them.

That being said... I think we're a 4 or 5. It's really hard for me to compare with being an expat in Hong Kong since the lifestyle and prices of everything are so different, but I think we're generally doing OK.

Pros:
- No car, but it's Hong Kong and other than the people that drive their Maserati to go out for coffee, practically no one has a car.
- Cook most meals at home now. We eat out 1-2 meals a week, but that's really low for Hong Kong. And when we eat out half the time it's noodles or something for $4.
- Cut down quite a bit on travel. I used to pop away to a different country every long weekend, but now we're focusing on exploring Hong Kong more, seeing the outlying islands.
- Don't pay anyone for any services. That's a pretty big thing to do in HK, seems like everyone here has a cleaning lady.
- Investments are all in passive index funds, paying a rock bottom average of 0.07% in fees.
- Max out 401(k), have started doing backdoor Roths since finding out about them in 2014. Already done 2015.
- Have been using Mint to keep detailed expense records for the past half year, so now we know where the money goes.

Cons:
- Still travel a lot. If you want to leave HK and go somewhere other than mainland China, you're paying a few hundred bucks for an international flight. So it goes.
- Groceries are ~$600 a month, but I think that would work out closer to $300 a month back in the States.
- Have really cut down on buying "stuff", but still bought a nice tent for the wife and I to go camping (see exploring HK above) and bought her a road bike for her birthday. It was a two year old model so 1/3 off, but still spent a good chunk on it.
- Still hard to avoid the city lifestyle, going out and drinking and such.
- Don't buy much used, but the used market in HK is difficult if you don't speak Chinese.

[ash7962]

I think I'd rate myself as a 5-6.  I found MMM last June and have been implementing improvements ever since.  I used to think it was soooo hard to save, but I reevaluated everything I paid for and just watched hundreds of dollars fall off of my monthly spending.  It was eye opening.  So, here's where I'm at:

Pros:
-No Debt at all
-Maxing retirement accounts
-No car, I take public transport, bike, or walk everywhere
-Saving something like 60% of my gross pay
-Hobbies are mostly low cost or free
-Barely spend any money on beauty items (I don't wear make up often and I get my hair cut once a year)
-No more cable!

Cons:
-Still working on the cell phone plan.  Verizon is putting up quite the fight in letting my contract go by mostly playing the employee incompetence card.  I could push the issue, but my contract is a few months from ending so I won't really save money by switching due to early termination fees.
-Apartment is fairly spendy.  Hopefully will move in with my SO in the next couple years which will cut my rent spending down.  I do live fairly close to work and within walking distance of a few grocery stores though.
-I have two cats.  Love them to death but they are expensive.

[lax4life93]

I would also say 5-6.  We found MMM late last summer and have been working hard to get our act together.

Pros:
- Savings around 60% of our monthly NET pay
- Moved to a small basement suit to reduce rent by 33%
- the Mrs & I bike 3-5 times a week to work in summer and fall & walk for groceries
- two vehicles, 2008 & 1999 fully paid for and maintained by ME!
- Don't buy any clothes or consumer good (except the odd piece that stands the 30 day test and partners scrutiny)
- Simplified/cut down grocery spending to 300/month for two highly active adults (was $500)
- debt has been reduced from 18K to 6K in 4 months
- Don't eat out or go out for expensive entertainment.  Netflix is all we need
- No more misc beers or glasses of wine
- Painful feeling when we have to pull out our wallets to pay for something

Cons:
- Winters and spring we have to drive to work.  Monthly fuel approx $300 (Canadian prices are higher, but still! shoot be in the face right now!)
- expensive hobbies: hockey, lacrosse (trying to replace with triathlon), snowboarding
- Drive a V6 chevy s10 with only 25 mpg (working to get that up to approx 28-30)
- two fancy pants iphones (but our employers pay the bills so its only half bad)
- Large leisure travel (mountains are 4 hrs away, and we do lots of snowboarding, hiking, hunting, etc.)

We feel empowered by the changes over the last couple months, but still have room for improvement :)
Let me know your thoughts!