Author Topic: Home Insurance Rates  (Read 1352 times)

bmjohnson35

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Home Insurance Rates
« on: September 08, 2022, 07:56:00 PM »

Florida insurance rates are getting crazy.  Our insurance cost has tripled over the past 5 yrs.  It went up 30% last year and this year we are facing another 45% increase.  There are various factors for this, but the main reason appears to be excessive fraudulent lawsuits by roofing companies and other questionable lawsuits driven by the lawyer firms.  We own a 3b/3b townhouse worth around $375k and our new premium is $3300 for the year.  Our 14 yr roof is driving this, but I'm not sure if replacing the roof would make much difference in our premium.  There are fewer and fewer insurance companies writing policies in Florida as each month goes by.  Our insurance agent states that Florida has the highest rates in the nation. 

I'm curious what others are seeing for home insurance premiums across the US.

Sibley

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 08:08:21 PM »
My home insurance is about $900 for a 100+ year old house, Indiana near Chicago. Location matters. Yeah, you're getting hit with fraud, but also climate change. Flooding and hurricanes are expensive to insure.

calimom

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2022, 08:10:54 PM »
I'm in a California fire zone. We've evacuated 3 times over the years and fortunately, our house has been spared, but my insurance premiums have not. It hasn't been horrible, but it's been noticeable and also understandable, due to the high payouts the companies have had to pay.

NoVa

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2022, 08:26:39 PM »
Northern Virginia, house is worth about $600k, insurance is $800/yr. I did select high deductibles, but nothing dramatic.

Florida, not sure what you can do. I read somewhere that Florida has 9% of the policies and 79% of the lawsuits.

Luke Warm

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2022, 06:10:23 AM »
I posted about this a few months ago:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/wind-insurance-is-outrageous/
Our house payment doubled almost overnight.

wageslave23

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2022, 06:19:00 AM »
Can you raise the deductible?  I would start thinking about self insuring.

dandarc

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2022, 06:45:28 AM »
Have someone coming for a 4 point inspection and wind mitigation because our prior insurer decided to leave Florida. Was about to pay renewal and that happened - actually coverage is over on 10/3.

If the inspection checks out, the quoted rate was about $300 lower for the year than the renewal was going to be. But Tallahassee is quite inland - usually a place people evacuate to rather than from. I was a little panicked when I couldn't find anything online, but then our agent got in touch with this better offer.

I remember the first company I worked for out of college talking about pulling out of Florida due to the regulatory environment here, but I found them on the list of approved insurers here so if they went through with that it was relatively short-lived. I don't know how much of that was management bluster - I was just a lowly computer programmer but recall one of the VP's talking about it. That would have been 2006-2008 timeframe.

regenaeb

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2022, 08:11:18 AM »
Also in FL and our renewal is about $600 more this year. We are now paying $4055.00 for a 4bed 2 bath pool home. This is our forever home but it is currently a rental since we are a military and living out of state. We are very limited to carriers that will do rental properties in FL per my insurance agent. We are currently with Citizens. If we went with a private carrier it would be about $500 more this year. My agent also told me about the issues with the roof fraud and this is driving the costs. They also told me any carrier can drop us once our roof hits 15 years old. Even if we get it inspected with a roof life value they want them replaced. She is hoping there is going to be a special session in October to address this. I paid extra for high quality shingles and a vapor barrier with tie downs to protect my roof longer when I replaced it 11 years ago. It is so wasteful to tear off a perfectly good roof that would last at least 20 years or more at 15 years of age. If that is going to be the case, my next roof will be the cheapest quality crap I can buy since I will probably have to tear it off again in 15 years.

Sorry for the rant, this touched a nerve with me. Don't even get me started on how much more car insurance is in FL compared to other states. We are moving back next summer and my twins will be new 16 year old drivers. It is going to cost me about $800 more a month to carry them on the oldest (non financed) car as occasional drivers. We are not even getting them their own cars, making them drive my 2006 Pilot instead. I will not be getting a new car. I am getting an Ebike instead since I work from home. I can take that to the store to pick up anything I need when the kids have my car.

wageslave23

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2022, 08:23:59 AM »
Also in FL and our renewal is about $600 more this year. We are now paying $4055.00 for a 4bed 2 bath pool home. This is our forever home but it is currently a rental since we are a military and living out of state. We are very limited to carriers that will do rental properties in FL per my insurance agent. We are currently with Citizens. If we went with a private carrier it would be about $500 more this year. My agent also told me about the issues with the roof fraud and this is driving the costs. They also told me any carrier can drop us once our roof hits 15 years old. Even if we get it inspected with a roof life value they want them replaced. She is hoping there is going to be a special session in October to address this. I paid extra for high quality shingles and a vapor barrier with tie downs to protect my roof longer when I replaced it 11 years ago. It is so wasteful to tear off a perfectly good roof that would last at least 20 years or more at 15 years of age. If that is going to be the case, my next roof will be the cheapest quality crap I can buy since I will probably have to tear it off again in 15 years.

Sorry for the rant, this touched a nerve with me. Don't even get me started on how much more car insurance is in FL compared to other states. We are moving back next summer and my twins will be new 16 year old drivers. It is going to cost me about $800 more a month to carry them on the oldest (non financed) car as occasional drivers. We are not even getting them their own cars, making them drive my 2006 Pilot instead. I will not be getting a new car. I am getting an Ebike instead since I work from home. I can take that to the store to pick up anything I need when the kids have my car.

$800 more per month?! That's gotta be a typo right? $800 more per year sounds about right. I think that's what it was for me 20yrs ago. 

The federal government subsidizes insurance policies in high risk areas like Florida I believe.  Maybe they are eliminating the subsidies? If that's the case, I'm all for that. If someone wants to live in a high risk area, they should pay the actual costs and not people living in boring old midwest.

bmjohnson35

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2022, 09:30:32 AM »

Unfortunately, the roofing contractors have really increased the risk for insurance companies in Florida. Roofers drive through neighborhoods and tell homeowners a recent storm make them eligible to get a "free" roof.  Once the homeowner signs the contract, the roofer attacks the insurance company and sometimes they inflate the final cost of repairs exponentially. This means choosing to waive hurricane coverage still doesn't eliminate the risk to insurers.  If we don't sell the house within the next year, I suspect that we will end up having to replace our roof.  If we sell and choose to stay in the state, I'm leaning toward a new house with a metal or tile roof.  My wife claims to be ready to leave the state, but I know she would regret moving away from kids/grandkids. 

I'm probably oversimplifying things, but I'm surprised insurance companies don't offer alternative policies that mitigate risk of roofing contractor abuse.  For example, a policy that doesn't allow the owner to assign a claim over to a 3rd party.  Another option would be to partner up with roofing contractors or even purchase roofing businesses outright. 

The amount of billboards and TV ad's with ambulance chasing attorneys has increased tremendously over the past few decades.  We need tort reform and/or companies need to get more creative about offering alternative services/products that reduce/eliminate excessive lawsuits.

 

wageslave23

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2022, 09:48:39 AM »

Unfortunately, the roofing contractors have really increased the risk for insurance companies in Florida. Roofers drive through neighborhoods and tell homeowners a recent storm make them eligible to get a "free" roof.  Once the homeowner signs the contract, the roofer attacks the insurance company and sometimes they inflate the final cost of repairs exponentially. This means choosing to waive hurricane coverage still doesn't eliminate the risk to insurers.  If we don't sell the house within the next year, I suspect that we will end up having to replace our roof.  If we sell and choose to stay in the state, I'm leaning toward a new house with a metal or tile roof.  My wife claims to be ready to leave the state, but I know she would regret moving away from kids/grandkids. 

I'm probably oversimplifying things, but I'm surprised insurance companies don't offer alternative policies that mitigate risk of roofing contractor abuse.  For example, a policy that doesn't allow the owner to assign a claim over to a 3rd party.  Another option would be to partner up with roofing contractors or even purchase roofing businesses outright. 

The amount of billboards and TV ad's with ambulance chasing attorneys has increased tremendously over the past few decades.  We need tort reform and/or companies need to get more creative about offering alternative services/products that reduce/eliminate excessive lawsuits.

 

I dont understand why the insurance companies aren't doing their own due diligence and rejecting claims that aren't legitimate.  And also having their own estimates done. My insurance company only approved one of my houses for a partial roof replacement.  I raised my wind and hail damage deductible after that. I figure if they aren't going to reimburse me anyways, what's the point of paying for the coverage.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2022, 10:29:38 AM »

Unfortunately, the roofing contractors have really increased the risk for insurance companies in Florida. Roofers drive through neighborhoods and tell homeowners a recent storm make them eligible to get a "free" roof.  Once the homeowner signs the contract, the roofer attacks the insurance company and sometimes they inflate the final cost of repairs exponentially. This means choosing to waive hurricane coverage still doesn't eliminate the risk to insurers.  If we don't sell the house within the next year, I suspect that we will end up having to replace our roof.  If we sell and choose to stay in the state, I'm leaning toward a new house with a metal or tile roof.  My wife claims to be ready to leave the state, but I know she would regret moving away from kids/grandkids. 

I'm probably oversimplifying things, but I'm surprised insurance companies don't offer alternative policies that mitigate risk of roofing contractor abuse.  For example, a policy that doesn't allow the owner to assign a claim over to a 3rd party.  Another option would be to partner up with roofing contractors or even purchase roofing businesses outright. 

The amount of billboards and TV ad's with ambulance chasing attorneys has increased tremendously over the past few decades.  We need tort reform and/or companies need to get more creative about offering alternative services/products that reduce/eliminate excessive lawsuits.

 

I dont understand why the insurance companies aren't doing their own due diligence and rejecting claims that aren't legitimate.  And also having their own estimates done. My insurance company only approved one of my houses for a partial roof replacement.  I raised my wind and hail damage deductible after that. I figure if they aren't going to reimburse me anyways, what's the point of paying for the coverage.

Insurance companies are doing this, but there is a nuance in FL regulations that makes it prohibitively expensive to fight legally, so the insurance company just pays. It's the regulation that needs to change.

Gremlin

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2022, 05:18:31 PM »
Reinsurance costs (where individual insurers themselves take insurance against large events) are skyrocketing in areas impacted by climate change. Doubly so if they are densely built. Triply so if they are in highly litigious jurisdictions.  An ever increasing proportion of Florida’s home insurance premiums are being determined by the reinsurance component of the premium, which is driven by by these three factors.

Reinsurers are all global behemoths and take exposure worldwide. They don’t care about the climate culture wars being fought in Florida state politics, they follow the science and the litigation in the jurisdiction.

Cheaper premiums will follow state authorities’ acceptance of the climate science and implementing resilience programs, and regulating litigation. If neither happen, Florida’s residents are on the path to being uninsurable.

The same problem is playing out in other highly exposed, high value insurance markets around the world, most notably on the north-east coast of Australia and parts of Japan. The key difference is that Florida’s investment in climate resilience and litigation control is massively trailing every other high risk area worldwide. Not only that, but the gap is widening. Reinsurers are pricing that accordingly.

jpdx

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2022, 11:19:43 PM »
My premium is $650/year. Coverage for Dwelling is ~$400k, Personal Property ~$200k, and Liability $500k.

BlueMR2

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2022, 08:44:58 AM »
Our home insurance has been steadily creeping up, but hasn't been too crazy.  The crazy one is the motorcycle insurance.  It skyrocketed during COVID.  Looking at the breakdown it's interesting to see that it's all the uninsured motorist section...  I suppose people quit paying insurance while they were out of work.  I've known a few people in accidents recently and in all of the cases the other party didn't have insurance...

theninthwall

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2022, 10:56:47 AM »
My wife is a lawyer for a firm that represents insurance companies in Florida. The amount of fraud and dubious claims is incredible. There are companies that do mitigation after a roof is damaged, but they are often invoicing more than the cost of a new roof!

bryan995

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2022, 01:48:24 PM »
We pay $800/yr on a 1.4MM home in CA (fire risk zone).


startingsmall

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2022, 03:53:34 PM »
Ouch.

We're in Southwest Florida. Our insurance is up for renewal in November, so I'm not-so-eagerly awaiting to see what our new rate will be.... but this year was $2000 for a 2,100 sq. ft. house with a 14 year old roof and a current Zillow value ~$500k. We use State Farm, and the previous homeowners did all the things for hurricane mitigation (impact-resistant windows on the front, accordion shutters elsewhere, hurricane screen for the lanai, special garage door). 


big_owl

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2022, 06:22:21 PM »
Them's the breaks.   But that Florida weather tho.....right?

RainyDay

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Re: Home Insurance Rates
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2022, 10:30:08 AM »
Northern Virginia, house is worth about $600k, insurance is $800/yr. I did select high deductibles, but nothing dramatic.

Florida, not sure what you can do. I read somewhere that Florida has 9% of the policies and 79% of the lawsuits.

Yep, ours is pretty much the same, though our house is probably worth a bit less at $550k-ish.  Suddenly I'm grateful for our relatively boring mid-Atlantic weather... not a lot of hurricanes, mudslides, or wild fires.  Occasional flooding.