Hiring Domestic Help to Continue Working

[Khaetra]

Your time, your money, spend them according to what you value.

Having said that, after reading the update, I think the premise is misleading... you aren't hiring out the housework so that you can do more paid work or "continue working". You're hiring it out so that you can spend time online or working out for 3 hours. Again, totally up to you, but it's not about the economic tradeoff of being able to do more paid work.

You'd just rather lift weights than do laundry, and that's really a different question than the way it was originally posed.

Yeah, sorry but I think you should just suck it up and do the chores yourselves.  I hate cleaning and I get it.  I hate subbing toilets, the tub, mopping, etc. but it's really not that hard to do and it doesn't take that long once you get a system in place.  If you were working ungodly numbers of hours a week, then I could see it but otherwise, nope.

[nirodha]

I'd rather lift weights than work too!

I was originally on track for a lean fire. The plan was to downsize and drop the supplemental services other than the housekeeper.

Unfortunately a lean fire strategy is much more risky than I originally appreciated. My opinion is confidently mitigating healthcare risk requires half a million per person. An arthritis drug my wife was prescribed retails at $3000 a month. With my work's insurance, it is 5 bucks, and the drug company helps pay our deductible.

That is not a stable system.

My purpose for retirement is freeing time and energy to do what I want. Outsourcing a bunch of stuff, but retaining the full time employment is much more resilient against the economic uncertainty we all face. I see that as continuing to work.

The march to a fat fire isn't slowed all that much by the additional expenses, because the reserves for healthcare need to be so high. If I'm sick, I'm opting into the best care available. It's expensive.

[Emily2651]

FWIW I do this and I can share my experience with it.

Two years ago I was working part time. I have two small children (elementary school age) and a partner who travels frequently for work. The opportunity arose to work full time at a job I consider a calling. Working full time also means a beefed up savings rate for us and a sooner retirement date. So I took the job planning to hire an after school nanny since my kids do better at home in the afternoon after a long academic day. When I was writing my care.com ad looking for a 10ish hour per week person (after school only), my husband said, "No one will want that job!" I was worried about attracting a high quality long term candidate, so I made the job 20 hours per week with the expectation of 2 hours per day of cleaning and household help before school lets out. I had a lot of responses to my ad and was able to hire a lovely woman who has worked for our family for two years. She has become a very valuable fixture in our lives; not only does she care for my sons after school but she does AM drop off when my partner is out of town, she works extra hours around all those inevitable no-school days that pop up. And she does all the laundry and household chores as well. She runs errands. She does some cooking or will run to the grocery store if I ask her to.

This is absolutely a luxury and in retrospect I regret this situation. It's expensive and it's complicating my children's relationship to housework, to say the least. I also think, now that I have settled into my job and the kids are older, it would totally be no big deal to do these chores together in the evenings and on Saturday morning. But we have come to rely on our nanny's remarkable flexibility with regard to childcare and frankly we have all come to love her. I don't want to destabilize her income by reducing her hours a) because I care about her and b) because she'd likely leave to take another job! So here we are. But if I had it to do again ... I wouldn't. Laundry isn't that hard and the kind of laziness and entitlement this situation is engendering isn't great, frankly.

[thd7t]

I accept that many of us live in a situation where outsourcing to some degree is the norm.  However, the degree that this thread is founded on gets to a point of living with the intention of ignoring your impact on the world to the point of literally ignoring your own messes.

I personally disagree with this and believe that the foundation of this particular "community" is more intentional living than early retirement.  At least ask yourself where your limits are and test them some before wholesale outsourcing your "mundane tasks".  To most people those tasks are just "living".

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

This place is becoming more like bogleheads every day.

But way better atmosphere.

[Aelias]

This is absolutely a luxury and in retrospect I regret this situation. It's expensive and it's complicating my children's relationship to housework, to say the least. . . .  But if I had it to do again ... I wouldn't. Laundry isn't that hard and the kind of laziness and entitlement this situation is engendering isn't great, frankly.

This is so interesting to me.  My kids are still pretty small (oldest just starting kindergarten), my husband and I both work full time, and for a long time, I desperately wanted some household help.  He pushed back hard precisely because he felt there was something not-quite-right about not caring for your own home and, as you so perfectly put it, it would complicate the kids' relationship to housework.  I thought that was nonsense because there's still plenty of work that wouldn't get done by a once every 2 weeks or so housekeeper, but maybe he was right.  The help you describe from your housekeeper sounds amazing, so it's fascinating to me that you regret it.

I eventually moved off my housekeeping stance because of MMM -- 1) it was extra money out the door that could be saved and 2) we'd have a hedonic adaption problem, both for ourselves and for our kids.  I was always slightly dismayed by how messy our house was because, although I didn't realize it at the time, I grew up in a super clean house because my mom didn't work outside the house.  If we got a housekeeper, it would set a certain baseline for what level of cleanliness we expect. For my kids, I fully expect that if they choose to couple-up, both they and their partner will work.  So, I want to set their expectations based on what a home 2 working partners  looks and feels like. 

Also--holy crap is it easy for kids to get lazy!  I don't particularly think we spoil our kids, but in some ways, they manage to get spoiled anyway.  I do think it would be worse if they house just magically got clean without us doing any work to make it so.

Bottom line--we're not getting a housekeeper.  We're saving our money, trying to get better about cleaning on a regular basis, and learning to live with our somewhat messy house.

[GuitarStv]

This place is becoming more like bogleheads every day.

But way better atmosphere.

More Vitamixes.

[ender]

This place is becoming more like bogleheads every day.

But way better atmosphere.

Eh, it depends on what you are looking for - in my experience Bogleheads concentrates on "does this work mathematically and financially?" and "what is the most optimal thing to do?" questions. This forum involves a lot more of the psychology aspects.

I find that the math isn't the hard part for me, hence I'm here. But when I have serious financial planning related questions I'd 100x rather ask them on Bogleheads than here because the folks there are generally speaking more knowledgable.

[zygote]

This is absolutely a luxury and in retrospect I regret this situation. It's expensive and it's complicating my children's relationship to housework, to say the least. . . .  But if I had it to do again ... I wouldn't. Laundry isn't that hard and the kind of laziness and entitlement this situation is engendering isn't great, frankly.

This is so interesting to me.  My kids are still pretty small (oldest just starting kindergarten), my husband and I both work full time, and for a long time, I desperately wanted some household help.  He pushed back hard precisely because he felt there was something not-quite-right about not caring for your own home and, as you so perfectly put it, it would complicate the kids' relationship to housework.  I thought that was nonsense because there's still plenty of work that wouldn't get done by a once every 2 weeks or so housekeeper, but maybe he was right.  The help you describe from your housekeeper sounds amazing, so it's fascinating to me that you regret it.

As a perspective from the side of the child, both my parents worked and we had a maid who came and cleaned the house once every week or two. My parents didn't like doing it, and they became friendly enough with the maid they wanted to continue to support her even as we got old enough to help.

It's true that it warps the kids' relationship to housework. I can tidy because I always had to do that before the maid came, but I struggle to keep my (very small) apartment clean in adulthood. I never learned the rhythm of when things need to be done, how to do them, etc. To the point where just last night I was reading a book on how to keep your house clean.

[cats]

3. My time constraints come from a desire to lead a tranquil life. I like an hour for breakfast. I'll sip a cup of tea, have some oatmeal, and browse the web. I might burn three hours on a workout. Walk for 20 minutes, throw on some Netflix, then lift weights every 5-10 minutes until tired. I almost never rush, anymore. Fitting that pace with a full time job requires trade offs.

I also like a tranquil life but this does sound a bit...extreme.  Two plus hours of Netflix in one go?  How often are you working out?  How about using those 5-10 minute intervals to do some light chores like folding the laundry, loading the dishwasher, etc.? I may be extreme on the other end of the spectrum, but I haven't had a TV in a little over 10 years at this point, my husband and I occasionally check out DVDs from the library or watch a short YouTube video for entertainment and TBH, watching TV/movies now makes me twitchy because I am just thinking of all the better things I could be doing.  I now find it incredibly UNrelaxing.  Same deal with working out--I enjoy the endorphin high but I don't want to spend more than 30 minutes on it most days because then it's just cutting into my time to do more interesting/useful stuff. I also prefer to do it without the TV on because I can be more focused and really get the most out of the time I spend working out.

I'm all for living your best life but this really does sound like a recipe for rotting your brain out if you are doing it daily or multiple times per week.  I would seriously consider whether this is what you truly want out of life. 

[GuitarStv]

If you're lifting weights every 5-10 minutes until you get tired . . . and it's taking 3+ hours to get tired, you desperately need to increase the amount of weight you're lifting.  Doing so will let you both reap greater benefits from the exercise, and will reduce the time needed to work out.

[JoJo]

The thing that strikes me is the desire to workout.  I recently decided to declutter and clean to sell my place.  I just convinced myself that doing housework was my workout.  I'm happy to say I lost 15 pounds in the month I was doing all that work.  you just have to put a different mindset around that.

[Cranky]

I haul a basket of wet laundry up the stairs 4 times/week and hang it on the clothesline. Weightlifting checked off my To Do list! ;-)

[nirodha]

The outsourcing experience with kids is interesting. I would have thought it'd be easier to justify. I can see why not.

My parents made doing chores the way to get money. Our house was usually pretty dirty. Could be why I find no intrinsic value in doing them myself. Early in my fire journey, I replaced a kitchen faucet. Not only did it do nothing for me, the parts that aren't perfect annoy me to this day. It's hard to relate to the opposite perspective.

For me, lifting is entertainment. I do it 3-4x a week, splitting between home and the gym as my whims dictate. Rest periods are shorter at the gym, and I fit in some cardio. Drive time keeps me at 3 hours for the workout though.

One of my favorite parts about lifting is getting out of my head. Work is mentally demanding, the weights are a reset. Outside of enjoying Netflix, the video also helps with the mental reset. I enjoy bouncing between the mental dissociation and intense physical stimulus. On occasion I'll watch conference sessions or training courses.

Certainly if I'm tight on time, I can and do lift faster. I'd rather not rush my fun though.

[mak1277]

The outsourcing experience with kids is interesting. I would have thought it'd be easier to justify. I can see why not.

My parents made doing chores the way to get money. Our house was usually pretty dirty. Could be why I find no intrinsic value in doing them myself. Early in my fire journey, I replaced a kitchen faucet. Not only did it do nothing for me, the parts that aren't perfect annoy me to this day. It's hard to relate to the opposite perspective.

I had chores, but I never got an allowance...maybe THAT is why I hate chores so much now?

[Khaetra]

My parents made doing chores the way to get money. Our house was usually pretty dirty. Could be why I find no intrinsic value in doing them myself. Early in my fire journey, I replaced a kitchen faucet. Not only did it do nothing for me, the parts that aren't perfect annoy me to this day. It's hard to relate to the opposite perspective.

My mom was a hoarder who insisted that all of her 'treasures' be washed weekly.  Guess who did that without pay?

Still I say no to the housekeeper.  There's no justification for it in your case and being lazy and 'ewww I hate it' doesn't cut it.  What does your wife think of the idea?  What does she do while you're lifting/at the gym/vegging on Netflix?

[nirodha]

My wife is good with idea. She does not lift with me, but has her own interests and priorities.

We exercise very little direction over each other in terms of chores. It's common for neither of us to have completed our mundane tasks. Fortunately we're on the same page there. It was a big contributor to hiring the monthly housekeeper in our mid twenties.

My wife grew up in a family with too many things. Through her, I've had some tangential exposure to what that can be, and it's scary. Fortunately,our home is pretty empty. She's a big fan of konmari, and my laziness extends to shopping. We could be packed and out of the house in a day or two.

[Johnez]

My parents made doing chores the way to get money. Our house was usually pretty dirty. Could be why I find no intrinsic value in doing them myself. Early in my fire journey, I replaced a kitchen faucet. Not only did it do nothing for me, the parts that aren't perfect annoy me to this day. It's hard to relate to the opposite perspective.

My mom was a hoarder who insisted that all of her 'treasures' be washed weekly.  Guess who did that without pay?

Still I say no to the housekeeper.  There's no justification for it in your case and being lazy and 'ewww I hate it' doesn't cut it.  What does your wife think of the idea?  What does she do while you're lifting/at the gym/vegging on Netflix?

No excuse? Lol. If anyone's making enough dough to afford it and still FIRE, what excuse is there not to and enjoy their lives. I'd love to if I could afford it.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

This place is becoming more like bogleheads every day.

But way better atmosphere.

Eh, it depends on what you are looking for - in my experience Bogleheads concentrates on "does this work mathematically and financially?" and "what is the most optimal thing to do?" questions. This forum involves a lot more of the psychology aspects.

I find that the math isn't the hard part for me, hence I'm here. But when I have serious financial planning related questions I'd 100x rather ask them on Bogleheads than here because the folks there are generally speaking more knowledgable.

I find there is a capricious moderation culture over there whereas things are a bit more consistent and predictable here.  On bogleheads, it’s weird when a huge chunk thread is lopped off a poster is banned and it appears to be from a post that was weeks or months old.

[gerardc]

I've always thought hiring help makes no sense because I CAN do it myself. I do have the time if I make it a priority. But then, how often do you stay home on a weekend instead of going out because you need to buy food, do laundry, and clean? More often that I care to admit. And that may be part of why we don't enjoy our working lives so much and want to FIRE. So think of it as a financial decision: does it make more sense to FIRE completely so you can enjoy more, or keep working and hire all the help you need? Answer: FIRE. But still a legit question.

[gerardc]

I worked from home for more than a decade and hope to transition back to that shortly. I found taking care of my "life stuff" dead easy. Unless you are doing data entry work, which you are obviously not, the creative process requires time to process information and formulate plans/ideas. So it was so easy to get up from the computer and put on a load of laundry, do the dishes, mow the lawn, etc... without actually impacting my productivity. The added benefit was moving my body and resting my eyes which is pretty critical for your health if you do computer work. Doing your thinking away from the computer while moving your body will let you do more computer work and can improve your productivity.

Very very true, love working from home, I remember fondly of the time doing so.


However that life is optimized for someone with a low salary. I feel many of us optimized their lives while they were earning $20k/year.
But if you're now earning $400k, many of those good habits don't serve you well anymore. You just don't realize because you closed the question in your head as resolved, and you didn't revisit it since then. I suspect there are many assumptions/habits I built during my poverty years that may be just a hindrance now. But long habits die hard, so we're stuck in the poverty mindset for life.

[PDXTabs]

What an odd discussion to come to the MMM forums for permission to outsource everything. That said, while the OP can technically "afford" it, eliminating all uncomfortable activities may not be the happiest way to run a life.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

This really does look like the appropriate MMM canon on outsourcing. With that said, if I could bill an extra four hours per week at $80/hr, and I only had to pay someone $20/hr to clean my house, I might consider it. For the time being I'll clean my own house.

[inline five]

I make roughly $1000 a day picking up extra shifts at work. While it would make sense to work the most I can and outsource everything else I wouldn't have any sort of balance and I'd just be working working working. I enjoy doing things myself like mowing the lawn, cleaning, etc. I only get 14-15 days off a month as it is, I don't want to work more.

[gerardc]

I make roughly $1000 a day picking up extra shifts at work. While it would make sense to work the most I can and outsource everything else I wouldn't have any sort of balance and I'd just be working working working. I enjoy doing things myself like mowing the lawn, cleaning, etc. I only get 14-15 days off a month as it is, I don't want to work more.

14-15 days every month isn't that bad. Does this include week ends?

[inline five]

I make roughly $1000 a day picking up extra shifts at work. While it would make sense to work the most I can and outsource everything else I wouldn't have any sort of balance and I'd just be working working working. I enjoy doing things myself like mowing the lawn, cleaning, etc. I only get 14-15 days off a month as it is, I don't want to work more.

14-15 days every month isn't that bad. Does this include week ends?

Yes unfortunately i have to work every one at this time. Over time I won't but it's the way it is now. I could move and live closer and work a lot less for a little less pay. Ultimately that is what I want to do. Past years I have averaged 7-8 days a month, the catch is you are on call for 18 under that schedule.

[nirodha]

I appreciate the input and apologize if my initial post was unclear. I have been working through how to frame my thoughts. The conversation has helped.

[Moustachienne]

When I first read the first post I thought "welp, these forums have well and truly jumped the shark".  But the discussion has been great, including the OP's willingness to stick with it.  I'm loving malkyn's framing of the question/issue.  We all outsource a lot of things in our 1st world lives (apologies to anyone here hunting/foraging, etc) so the question is which things give us satisfaction to either do ourselves or to outsource. 

This is an even bigger question to explore when money is no longer an object, as is the case for MMM and many others on here.  Just like FIRE means that our days aren't organized by paid work and the schedules of others, surplus money means that our spending choices are also our own.  Self examination! Responsibility!  All that "hard" stuff. :)

Right now we outsource cleaning (every 2 weeks) but do our own yard work. These are very similar activities but I value being outdoors and getting my hands dirty.  DH is getting interested in food dehydrating and has just decided that building his own dehydrator will be a satisfying part of the project.  Same thing with an electric bike project.   Others could make other decisions and we may as well in the future.  Maybe being able to ride an e-bike soon will become a higher priority than modifying a current bike.  Maybe not.

All that said, though, we are alert to too much outsourcing, i.e. removing all challenges or learning opportunities from our lives.  It's an ongoing calibration!

[BookLoverL]

I don't really like chores that much myself, but I also get baffled by people who claim to spend all their time doing them. Maybe they are doing chores too often? It's not necessary to have the house completely free of every particle of dust at all times.

Usual chore breakdown in our (admittedly somewhat cluttered) 4-adult household:
Cooking/washing up, every day, but we have the rule that different people cook and wash up, so nobody gets stuck doing both of them.
Vacuuming/sweeping, probably on average each room gets done somewhere between once a week and once a month.
Mowing the lawn, happens every few weeks in the summer. We often let the grass get to a good three or four inches long.
Putting clothes in the washing machine/tumble dryer is the responsibility of whoever's clothes they are. I usually do around 1 to 2 loads a week and the actual time I spend on it each time is, like, 5 minutes.
Cleaning surfaces in the kitchen, periodically when it needs doing, but again, it's not that long of a job each time.
Cleaning anything else is pretty much "when somebody notices it is dirty", which for most things is once a month or less often.

So it doesn't really add up to spending very much time on chores for anyone. And maybe our house isn't spotless, but the sky hasn't fallen in yet...

[justajane]

There's really no right answer here, and I find, particularly with this issue, that I have to stop myself from becoming overly judgmental.

I've had multiple people tell me, including my therapist, that I might consider getting a bi-monthly cleaning person to reduce my stress load. I work about 15 hours a week and care for three kids, one of whom isn't in school yet. Especially since we added 1.5 more bathrooms, a basement room, and an addition, I have found keeping up with the house to be quite difficult. But I still can't bring myself to outsource cleaning.

My reasons are #1 privacy and #2 philosophy. Regarding #1, the thought of having a stranger in my house stresses me out more than just cleaning myself.

#2 is far more complicated and admittedly steeped in some personal philosophies of life that I know I should not ascribe any universality to. My philosophy is, if I or my partner or my offspring made this house dirty, I or they should damn well clean it up. It's not like tiling my bathroom floor or pouring the new basement on our addition, two things which we readily outsourced. Cleaning is easy. Yes, some cleaners are better than others, but it's not like tiling a floor or rewiring my house. It just isn't. If I miss some soap scum on my tile, it's no big deal. It's not like if I didn't lay that tile evenly and I have to stare at my shitty tile job for years to come.

I fully understand that this deviates from MMM's own philosophy of doing everything home related on his own. But my philosophy is: if it just needs to be done once (like a bathroom remodel), I'm going to outsource it. If it's a regular task (like cleaning or mowing the lawn or drywall/plaster repair), then I'm going to do it my damn self.

I think self-sufficiency is good for soul. But it's up to each person to determine where their line is.

[Erica]

We have someone come 2x a month for 4 hrs to clean. She is very inexpensive, a few dollars more than min wage. We pay her cash.
She's a member of a large mexican family of about 10-14 adults residing in our small town.
They live off of side jobs, so to speak. If you need anything, they are here to help.
Lucky for us and the other full timers since there aren't many in this Touristy Town.

[Cassie]

When my kids were teenagers we finally hired someone to clean once a month and it was so helpful. By then everyone knew how to clean. Now in our 60’s I have someone come once a month to scrub the floors and clean the bathroom.  When I was doing it myself it would throw my back out and I was paying more than the 60 I spent to the chiropractor and my back hurt a lot. We do everything else ourselves.

[travelawyer]

A real Mustachian would grow their own food, sew their own clothes, and of course, make their own soap.  Because outsourcing is evil! It doesn't matter how much time it saves you or how little it costs! (Either objectively or in comparison to your salary.) We Mustachians don't care about using money to buy ourselves time! We don't try to think rationally outside the box of a particular cultural dogma! We follow rules! And the rules say you have to clean your own house and maintain your own car.  Sorry OP.

[Cranky]

I buy my soap at the thrift store. Hah!

[inline five]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

[gerardc]

I don't use soap nor shampoo. Do I win the Mustachian award?

[GuitarStv]

I don't use soap nor shampoo. Do I win the Mustachian award?

Yes!

For stinkiest member . . .

[MrThatsDifferent]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

I’ve been doing this and have so much now I don’t know what to do with it. Oddly, I keep it for guests and not myself.

[inline five]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

I’ve been doing this and have so much now I don’t know what to do with it. Oddly, I keep it for guests and not myself.

I donated a lot to homeless shelters.

[travelawyer]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

I’ve been doing this and have so much now I don’t know what to do with it. Oddly, I keep it for guests and not myself.

I donated a lot to homeless shelters.

I have a ton of these too, and I've tried to look into donating things like this (also makeup, toys, other household things), and I gave up because it was stressing me out trying to find a place that was interested.  Donating things should be way easier than it is.  I should have hired someone to do it for me...

[Cranky]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

I’ve been doing this and have so much now I don’t know what to do with it. Oddly, I keep it for guests and not myself.

Someplace that runs a food bank or soup kitchen. My church hands out a lot of toiletries. Also, schools in low-income neighborhoods (we provide hygiene stuff to a school we kind of sponsor. Lots of kids don't come to school because they don't have shampoo or sanitary pads.)

I donated a lot to homeless shelters.

I have a ton of these too, and I've tried to look into donating things like this (also makeup, toys, other household things), and I gave up because it was stressing me out trying to find a place that was interested.  Donating things should be way easier than it is.  I should have hired someone to do it for me...

[big_owl]

I haven't bought soap or shampoo in decades, I stay in a lot of hotels and take theirs home. I actually stopped collecting it about a year ago, it was getting to be too much stockpiled up.

I’ve been doing this and have so much now I don’t know what to do with it. Oddly, I keep it for guests and not myself.

I donated a lot to homeless shelters.

I have a ton of these too, and I've tried to look into donating things like this (also makeup, toys, other household things), and I gave up because it was stressing me out trying to find a place that was interested.  Donating things should be way easier than it is.  I should have hired someone to do it for me...

LOL when we donate old clothes to Goodwill we do actually have our domestic helper take it for us. The nearest place is about 30min away and I have no reason to go there aside from that... So more time effective to have her do it for us.

[gerardc]

I have a ton of these too, and I've tried to look into donating things like this (also makeup, toys, other household things), and I gave up because it was stressing me out trying to find a place that was interested.  Donating things should be way easier than it is.  I should have hired someone to do it for me...

Not sure. At least the current system bullies you into donating your time as well. Not sure all household items people want to donate would be valuable enough if they had to hire someone to pick them up.

[greengardens]

I just hired a cleaning service once a month and have no regrets. Yes expensive and yes it will delay FIRE by a bit but I’m okay with it. Why? Because I have a newborn and a husband who could live in squalor and not care or notice, seriously. I do not have the time or energy to clean the house to my standards. When my husband complained about the cost I told him to start cleaning the bathrooms and completely gave that task to him. It’s been over a month and our bathrooms are disgusting and he doesn’t notice. So I hired the service

[Cranky]

I don't really like chores that much myself, but I also get baffled by people who claim to spend all their time doing them. Maybe they are doing chores too often? It's not necessary to have the house completely free of every particle of dust at all times.

Usual chore breakdown in our (admittedly somewhat cluttered) 4-adult household:
Cooking/washing up, every day, but we have the rule that different people cook and wash up, so nobody gets stuck doing both of them.
Vacuuming/sweeping, probably on average each room gets done somewhere between once a week and once a month.
Mowing the lawn, happens every few weeks in the summer. We often let the grass get to a good three or four inches long.
Putting clothes in the washing machine/tumble dryer is the responsibility of whoever's clothes they are. I usually do around 1 to 2 loads a week and the actual time I spend on it each time is, like, 5 minutes.
Cleaning surfaces in the kitchen, periodically when it needs doing, but again, it's not that long of a job each time.
Cleaning anything else is pretty much "when somebody notices it is dirty", which for most things is once a month or less often.

So it doesn't really add up to spending very much time on chores for anyone. And maybe our house isn't spotless, but the sky hasn't fallen in yet...

This is pretty much our household style, too. Except I do most of the laundry as it is more efficient/energy saving to combine people clothes into one load. I typically do 2~3 loads at a time, twice a week.

I think it is harder to stay on top of housework if you have small kids or pets. We take shoes off at the door, which really helps minimize dirt and dust in the house. We wash dishes by hand, one load after lunch and one after dinner. Have a routine for bathroom cleaning that only takes 15~20 minutes. Maybe I just have crap standards but can't really figure out why adult households have such a hard time staying on top of basic cleaning.

I'm mystified by that, too.

Today was walking/errands day. I've also done a load of laundry, vacuumed the basement, and changed one of the cat boxes down there, and was all done with everything by 11 AM. I can't think of any other housework besides picking up after myself that I'll do until I fix dinner tomorrow. (Dh is going to a work thing tonight, so I'm having leftovers.)

[Imma]

I don't really like chores that much myself, but I also get baffled by people who claim to spend all their time doing them. Maybe they are doing chores too often? It's not necessary to have the house completely free of every particle of dust at all times.

Usual chore breakdown in our (admittedly somewhat cluttered) 4-adult household:
Cooking/washing up, every day, but we have the rule that different people cook and wash up, so nobody gets stuck doing both of them.
Vacuuming/sweeping, probably on average each room gets done somewhere between once a week and once a month.
Mowing the lawn, happens every few weeks in the summer. We often let the grass get to a good three or four inches long.
Putting clothes in the washing machine/tumble dryer is the responsibility of whoever's clothes they are. I usually do around 1 to 2 loads a week and the actual time I spend on it each time is, like, 5 minutes.
Cleaning surfaces in the kitchen, periodically when it needs doing, but again, it's not that long of a job each time.
Cleaning anything else is pretty much "when somebody notices it is dirty", which for most things is once a month or less often.

So it doesn't really add up to spending very much time on chores for anyone. And maybe our house isn't spotless, but the sky hasn't fallen in yet...

This is pretty much our household style, too. Except I do most of the laundry as it is more efficient/energy saving to combine people clothes into one load. I typically do 2~3 loads at a time, twice a week.

I think it is harder to stay on top of housework if you have small kids or pets. We take shoes off at the door, which really helps minimize dirt and dust in the house. We wash dishes by hand, one load after lunch and one after dinner. Have a routine for bathroom cleaning that only takes 15~20 minutes. Maybe I just have crap standards but can't really figure out why adult households have such a hard time staying on top of basic cleaning.

I think I've got a fairly messy house (not super clean by anyone's standard) but it still takes me a lot of time. For example, the big shelf above my kitchen counter gets deep cleaned every month (take everything off, clean, clean items on the shelf, put them back). That takes me half an hour at least. If I don't do that every month, the spice jars stick to the shelf. I clean all the furniture with a moist rag every week or I get a visible layer of dust. I don't mop the kitchen floor every day, but if I wanted it to look clean I would have to do it daily.