High paying jobs for the not-so-technically inclined?

[MVal]

I am quite jealous of all you brilliant people out there working towards FIRE in your engineering and technology related jobs. Alas, I have very little aptitude for such things and I am really starting to wonder if I am doomed to flounder my way towards retirement through a series of unsatisfactory administrative assistant jobs. Can anyone recommend any other sorts of careers out there that pay 50K+ per year that don't demand a detail-oriented or mathematically agile mind? My talents are more in the creative realm and and I also think I have teaching ability. However, I know of very few teaching, writing, or other types of careers that are highly marketable or pay the sort of wage I'd need to hit retirement before 60.

I have a BA in English with a minor in Spanish as well as a Certificate of Environmental Studies that I obtained from MU in 2006. Since then, I've been working as office support and currently have a decent gig for the last five years as an administrative assistant for a property management company where I currently make about $40K/yr. However, I am so unmotivated, disengaged and depressed, I don't know how much longer I can stand to be here. It's very frustrating because this is actually the best job I've ever had in terms of pay and benefits and I have a good relationship with all my coworkers, so I'm very reluctant to leave except for the nagging feeling of my life going to waste. The work load would be more than manageable for anyone else, I'm sure, but I truly struggle with organization, time management and focus and so I feel I'm really just spending most of my time hiding how bad I am at my job. Because I feel like such a poor employee, it is even harder to keep my head in the game and be focused what is really going on at work.

I think because most of my ambitions seems to be oriented towards activities that do NOT pay well (or at all!), that is why I am so eager for FIRE. I have realized that likely the only way I'll be free to pursue a real life with real passion is to get myself free from the need to make money, but this is proving to be a Catch-22. It seems most jobs out there that pay well require one to be at a ninja level of time management, organization, etc., and this is what I've struggled with most my entire life.

I have thought before that perhaps I might have some skill in the realm of technical writing, however I am not well-versed any technical topic.

I've been able to save about 50% of my income this year and my net worth should hit $50K by the end of the year, which is exciting to me, but also discouraging in realizing I will probably need to hit about $485-600K for full FIRE someday.

Any thoughtful recommendations out there?

[mozar]

There is no way around it, organization, time management, and focus are key. All these technical jobs, quality jobs, everything requires it. Basically a college degree is just a proxy for your organization skills and focus. That's why they are so in demand. I'm not particularly good at technical stuff, but I was able to focus long enough to get a masters degree in accounting. My advice is to go to a doctor, maybe you have undiagnosed adhd? Then get serious about learning those skills through self help books or whatever. The issue here is your perception of yourself, not your technical ability.

[CletusMcGee]

Lack of technical aptitude hasn't prevented many of my co-workers from getting tech jobs...

[MVal]

Cletus, what sort of technical job do you have?

[MDM]

Can anyone recommend any other sorts of careers out there that pay 50K+ per year that don't demand a detail-oriented or mathematically agile mind?

There is this blog post (along with the comments and links therein): http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/25/50-jobs-over-50000-without-a-degree-part-1/

Also http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/continue-the-blog-conversation/50-jobs-over-$50-000/

[Louisville]

Lack of technical aptitude hasn't prevented many of my co-workers from getting tech jobs...

This. I never gave a hoot about computers or math or anything like that. Did the bare minimum of math (and got bare minimum grades) in high school to graduate. I just picked the field I thought had well paying jobs and went for it. Aptitude is over-rated. Now I've been working in Information Systems jobs for 19 years and make excellent money.
And you know what? I STILL don't give a hoot about computers and math.  It's interesting enough to get through eight hours a day, but I don't take it home with me.

[Ditchmonkey]

Cletus, what sort of technical job do you have?

There are a lot of "soft" tech jobs in big corporations that are primarily just office jobs. If you have a good resume, and know office tools etc, you could probably get a job that pays 50k or more pretty quickly. It's still going to be a soul-sucking, life-stealing work though. If you want to find that elusive balance between pay and happiness, go into business for yourself.

[Sibley]

MVal, from your description I'd recommend that you get checked for things like depression and adhd.

Also remember - you work to live, not live to work. Do something that you really enjoy when you're not working. Does working with kids excite you? Find somewhere to volunteer where you can do that. Or whatever it is! You'll have something to look forward to. I volunteer Saturday mornings at the animal shelter, and I really look forward to it (yes, even the part where I clean the bathrooms).

[MVal]

There is no way around it, organization, time management, and focus are key. All these technical jobs, quality jobs, everything requires it. Basically a college degree is just a proxy for your organization skills and focus. That's why they are so in demand. I'm not particularly good at technical stuff, but I was able to focus long enough to get a masters degree in accounting. My advice is to go to a doctor, maybe you have undiagnosed adhd? Then get serious about learning those skills through self help books or whatever. The issue here is your perception of yourself, not your technical ability.

Mozar, I most definitely have ADD and have been diagnosed in the past. However, I've been unsuccessful in finding a treatment that works for me. Drugs were a mediocre help at best and for as much as they helped, they weren't worth the nasty side effects. I've been searching for careers that play to the strengths of adults with ADD, but many of these are not the high paying gigs of most Mustachians, and often few and difficult to obtain. I am doing the best I can and have dedicated myself to setting aside every spare penny to "buying myself out" of traditional work.

[Psychstache]

Commission sales. Personal skills and tenacity  = big bucks in that field.

[Lanthiriel]

I have a BA in English Literature and an MS in Writing and Book Publishing (I know, I know), and work for an engineering firm as a Proposal Manager, making a little over $60k/year after being in the field about 6 years (started at about $42k). Basically I am responsible for writing, editing, and laying out (desktop publishing) proposals to win work with state, federal, and local governments clients. A large part of my job is purely organizational: managing the technical folks to make sure they're getting me content on time, setting up reviews with senior folks, and getting them printed and delivered on-time. It's a great job because I get to be a little creative, am fairly autonomous, and while I don't make what the engineers make, it is a professional-level role for a stable company. Pretty much all architecture, engineering, or construction firms have these roles now. Usually the terms they use are Marketing Assistant, Marketing Coordinator, or Proposal Coordinator.

[MVal]

MVal, from your description I'd recommend that you get checked for things like depression and adhd.

Also remember - you work to live, not live to work. Do something that you really enjoy when you're not working. Does working with kids excite you? Find somewhere to volunteer where you can do that. Or whatever it is! You'll have something to look forward to. I volunteer Saturday mornings at the animal shelter, and I really look forward to it (yes, even the part where I clean the bathrooms).

Yes, I already do all this. I have a part-time tutoring elementary kids that I really enjoy and I also volunteer with wildlife conservation (as a Master Naturalist). I attend all sorts of things that interest me like lectures, concerts, classes on topics I like, etc. I do radio theater and just finished an improv class. Some people are concerned about how busy I am, but I find filling up my time outside of work with these things is the best way to neutralize that feeling of not developing myself enough.

I've also sought treatment for the ADD and depression in the past, but therapy is extremely expensive and cuts into my ability to save. I mostly just rely on my plethora of outside activities to keep me sane. I must say that my new dedication to building savings has helped me feel the light at the end of the tunnel, however.

[sol]

I feel someone should also point out that early retirement is about your savings rate, not your income rate. 

If you want out of the workforce (without marrying money) then the path forward is more about reducing your expenses and investing the surplus than it is about increasing your income.

[MVal]

I have a BA in English Literature and an MS in Writing and Book Publishing (I know, I know), and work for an engineering firm as a Proposal Manager, making a little over $60k/year after being in the field about 6 years (started at about $42k). Basically I am responsible for writing, editing, and laying out (desktop publishing) proposals to win work with state, federal, and local governments clients. A large part of my job is purely organizational: managing the technical folks to make sure they're getting me content on time, setting up reviews with senior folks, and getting them printed and delivered on-time. It's a great job because I get to be a little creative, am fairly autonomous, and while I don't make what the engineers make, it is a professional-level role for a stable company. Pretty much all architecture, engineering, or construction firms have these roles now. Usually the terms they use are Marketing Assistant, Marketing Coordinator, or Proposal Coordinator.

Wow, that is great! It is inspiring to hear of someone with an English degree doing something actually in the field besides teaching. That sounds really fantastic.

[GuitarStv]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

[sol]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

Correction: FEMALE strippers make pretty good money.  Male strippers are woefully underpaid for the same work.  Just another example of gender bias in the workforce, for our friend windawake.

[MVal]

I feel someone should also point out that early retirement is about your savings rate, not your income rate. 

If you want out of the workforce (without marrying money) then the path forward is more about reducing your expenses and investing the surplus than it is about increasing your income.

Of course, yes, I realize this. However, if you determine you can live on $15,000/year, you are going to get to FIRE a lot faster if you make $80K/yr than if you make $40K, even if you are saving 75% of your income.

As long as I continue to make $$ over what I need to survive, I plan to put it all towards FIRE, there's no question about that. I would just like to make it happen faster by earning more so that my savings rate will increase even more!

[mozar]

I think you should keep trying to find the right treatment. Don't give up on yourself. I know little about add but I know that cognitive behavioral therapy works wonders for depression. The book that helped me the most was Feeling good, the new mood therapy. Also what are your assets? If you are already half way to Fire, it might not make sense to start at the bottom of a new career.

[GuitarStv]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

Correction: FEMALE strippers make pretty good money.  Male strippers are woefully underpaid for the same work.  Just another example of gender bias in the workforce, for our friend windawake.

[[Reference Needed]]


As I recall, member Bakari does some webcam stripping for extra cash and reported decent pay.

[Dr. Pepper]

How about starting your own property management company? I'm not an expert, but having listened to lots of investors complain about the poor service, turn around between tennants etc. that a person could build a reputation, and get quite a following if they focus on finding people who are not satisfied and getting them to switch. You can hire people to do the technical stuff for you.

[swick]

It sounds like you have enough community contacts that you could start your own grant writing or non-profit fundraising company as a side-gig.

[Ditchmonkey]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

That was rude as hell.

[GuitarStv]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

That was rude as hell.

Only if you carry certain prejudices about strippers and don't really view them as people.

[immocardo]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

That was rude as hell.

How so?  Don't let your bias towards strippers taint his post.  The suggested profession pays well and can be done by OP (meets all criteria outlined)

[Ditchmonkey]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

That was rude as hell.

How so?  Don't let your bias towards strippers taint his post.  The suggested profession pays well and can be done by OP (meets all criteria outlined)

It's amazing to me how grown men can act like children and think there is nothing wrong with it. Perhaps you should suggest she work as a prostitute? If you don't have a bias towards prostitutes that would be perfectly fine right?

[2lazy2retire]

Lack of technical aptitude hasn't prevented many of my co-workers from getting tech jobs...

This. I never gave a hoot about computers or math or anything like that. Did the bare minimum of math (and got bare minimum grades) in high school to graduate. I just picked the field I thought had well paying jobs and went for it. Aptitude is over-rated. Now I've been working in Information Systems jobs for 19 years and make excellent money.
And you know what? I STILL don't give a hoot about computers and math.  It's interesting enough to get through eight hours a day, but I don't take it home with me.

Me - almost to the year - love computers? yeah right

[sol]

Perhaps you should suggest she work as a prostitute? If you don't have a bias towards prostitutes that would be perfectly fine right?

I suspect that working as a prostitute is dirty and dangerous work, which is part of the reason it pays so well.  But in places where it is legal, it is certainly one way to make a lot of money without a technical background.

Other jobs that I think are roughly analogous include most anything Mike Rowe has profiled.  The economy is full of dirty and dangerous jobs that most people don't want to do, which is why they can pay so well.

This is part of the reason why men still outearn women across the economy: women tend to avoid these dangerous jobs.  If you restrict yourself to boring office type jobs, high pay requires technical skills.  In that context, I think suggesting the OP consider non traditional dirty jobs as a helpful response to the original question.

[justplucky]

I also have a BA in English and no further education beyond that. I work at a very large household name company as a Content Developer. I'm essentially paid to write in a certain style, although it does involve a bit of project management and content performance analysis. Within my company, Content Developers (or similar roles) work on a variety of teams. You won't make the gobs of money you would in a technical or higher management role, but I make nearly 2x what you do and I'm at the entry level or slightly above for this career path.  I will add the caveat that my company pays extremely well for this role.

Who creates the external and internal help documentation for the company you work for? Talk to that person and offer to help them out (if you have time). If no one else seems to care and they've been patching it together, see if you can make it your mission to consolidate ownership.

[MVal]

Perhaps you should suggest she work as a prostitute? If you don't have a bias towards prostitutes that would be perfectly fine right?

I suspect that working as a prostitute is dirty and dangerous work, which is part of the reason it pays so well.  But in places where it is legal, it is certainly one way to make a lot of money without a technical background.

Other jobs that I think are roughly analogous include most anything Mike Rowe has profiled.  The economy is full of dirty and dangerous jobs that most people don't want to do, which is why they can pay so well.

This is part of the reason why men still outearn women across the economy: women tend to avoid these dangerous jobs.  If you restrict yourself to boring office type jobs, high pay requires technical skills.  In that context, I think suggesting the OP consider non traditional dirty jobs as a helpful response to the original question.

I should clarify that in my quest to 'stache a mountain of cash, I am not willing to take on jobs that violate my moral code, so that would leave out stripping or prostitution. Although I have in desperate moments contemplated being one of those crab fisherman like on Dangerous Catch. Might have to spend a little more time at the gym first, though. I would be willing to do a dirty job, though, if it paid more than what I do now. Doing something gross or physically demanding is preferable to having a constant feeling of defeat at work.

[MVal]

I think you should keep trying to find the right treatment. Don't give up on yourself. I know little about add but I know that cognitive behavioral therapy works wonders for depression. The book that helped me the most was Feeling good, the new mood therapy. Also what are your assets? If you are already half way to Fire, it might not make sense to start at the bottom of a new career.

Yes, I used to go to counseling which was CBT for years and it cost hundreds per month and I'm still suffering from depression. I am not even close to half-way to FIRE at only $50K net worth, so I am open to entry level.

[Mr_Chin_Stubble]

what is so wrong with stripping?

[GodlessCommie]

One area of the high-tech field where I see less technical people find good success is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_intelligence

The description may sound scary and involved, but at the end of the day it is just a set of fairly graphical tools, and a good deal of interaction with business users. There will likely be a period where OP will be like "oh my god, I don't get any of it", which should soon turn into "why have I not done it 5 years ago?".

[sol]

what is so wrong with stripping?

Doesn't matter.  We each get to decide on our own moral beliefs.  We do not get to force those beliefs on anyone else.  Whether or not the OP find it objectionable, she's right.

[Mr_Chin_Stubble]

what is so wrong with stripping?

Doesn't matter.  We each get to decide on our own moral beliefs.  We do not get to force those beliefs on anyone else.  Whether or not the OP find it objectionable, she's right.

I know but I'm just curious.

[I'm a red panda]

Lots of English degrees in Educational Publishing/Assessment, both as content editors and as copy editors.
Some companies pay better than others. I have an excellent paying job in Assessment.

[ChrisLansing]

Just wondering why you didn't go into teaching in the first place ?    By now you'd be making $50K or more.   You'd have summers off, and a pension after 10 years. (small, because it's designed to max out at 30 years) 

As it is now, you make 40K so you'd definitely have to take a pay cut for several years.   

I know this isn't very helpful, I just wondered why you didn't go that route to begin with, it seems it would suit you well.   

[MVal]

Just wondering why you didn't go into teaching in the first place ?    By now you'd be making $50K or more.   You'd have summers off, and a pension after 10 years. (small, because it's designed to max out at 30 years) 

As it is now, you make 40K so you'd definitely have to take a pay cut for several years.   

I know this isn't very helpful, I just wondered why you didn't go that route to begin with, it seems it would suit you well.   

I was scared off by how many teachers leave the profession in such a short time and at the time had no interest in working with kids. I originally wanted to be a writer or copy editor. Had I known how difficult other types of work would be, I might have considered teaching.

As it is, most teachers I know are ex-teachers and left before they had 5 years in. I'm still hesitant to go into the broken educational system and rely on it for a career.

[sneeds]

With an English degree, I would suggest looking for work as a copy writer for a large company. Large companies in tech, helathcare, biotech, and probably many other industries are constantly churning out marketing content (web content, brochures, product spec sheets, "thought leadership" articles for industry trade publications, white papers, research papers, etc.) that they hire copy writers or marketers with strong writing backgrounds to create.

[Lis]

Try asking around your office if there are any other responsibilities you can take on that could potentially lead to a different job all together. I started out as an Office Assistant for overflow (basically an admin for the admins). When there were down times, I asked what else I could do. Turns out our compliance/legal department needed more help, so I've slowly been taking on more and more compliance responsibilities while letting go admin responsibilities. Work is certainly more interesting and the pay is good. I work for a relatively small financial company so this may or may not work for you, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

(I have a BS in Business Management/Classics, but none of the uppers realized this until I was at least a year in. When it was suggested that I maybe take a beginners accounting or finance course to familiarize myself with basic financial documents, I got to surprise them by saying I already knew all that fun stuff. They only cared that I had a Bachelors when I applied.)

[Cougar]

Cletus, what sort of technical job do you have?

There are a lot of "soft" tech jobs in big corporations that are primarily just office jobs. If you have a good resume, and know office tools etc, you could probably get a job that pays 50k or more pretty quickly. It's still going to be a soul-sucking, life-stealing work though. If you want to find that elusive balance between pay and happiness, go into business for yourself.

second.

if you know a business, industry or organization really well; you could probably get a job as some sort of buiness analyst or report writer using mainly excel. supervisors and execs love reports but they usually want someone else to do all the work and just send them the finished report.

[GodlessCommie]

Yet another avenue is not to have a job, but to pursue any of the "new media" formats, be it a self-published book, a blog, a podcast, youtube channel, etc. No guaranteed result, but (potentially) a lot of satisfaction in creating content in the area you love or care about.

[HopefulMustache]

I definitely empathize with your feelings about having non-lucrative interests that make FIRE both so appealing and hard to reach. I can also relate to some of your feelings towards your current work - in reality, you are probably doing your job better than you think! And in reality, leaving could be the best thing for you, as I'm hoping it will have been for me after being laid off from my job.

I also have an English BA, and although I have some technical leanings I make my hay writing. So, I'm unemployed which makes me perhaps not the most shining example, but I can tell you personally that I have seen mid-level job listings for editors, marketing coordinators, content creators, and copywriters that pay more than you are making now, sometimes significantly more. The trouble is you need a few years of editorial experience for most of them, but there is hope!

Entry-level pay can be in the mid-$30Ks if you're ok with that, but if not, I'd consider looking for some freelance editing work to help give you professional experience on your resume (and hey, the extra cash won't hurt your FIRE plans either). If you're looking for fulfillment, I'd also recommend starting your search for a company you like, rather than a job. Even if you start as an administrative aide of some kind there, you may find you feel a lot better, and if they have other jobs you like after a short time you could try to make a lateral move (edit: kind of like Lis suggested).

One other thing I'd say - don't say you're not detail oriented just because you like working with words. Hard to get much more detail oriented than an editor who is proofreading.

[GuitarStv]

I worked as an exterminator for a while.  You get a route assigned to you to look after (usually a bunch of industrial type food companies) and have the opportunity to treat the occasional one off (like ants/termites/roaches in a home).  The pay was reasonable, and if you hustled doing the one off jobs you could make a ton of money.  Training required a pest control license which cost a couple hundred dollars and was a pretty straightforward test.  I think that they have to pay a little more for exterminators because the job isn't particularly glamourous . . . but the work was really not too bad, and you aren't trapped in an office all day long pushing papers around.  Would seriously be worth a look if you're not squeamish.

[okits]

Are parts of your current job getting you down (pay, actual tasks, boredom) and hindering your ability to perform very well?  Because my automatic suggestion to an admin assistant who wants to make more is to look into becoming an executive assistant. You can make a lot and depending on the setup may be focused more on higher-level activities (the more mundane stuff gets farmed out to lower-skilled workers or outside vendors.)

It sounds like you are more open to working with children. Would you be willing to tutor or nanny?  There is certainly a market for instruction or childcare from people with higher-than-normal credentials (you don't need an English degree to help a kid learn to read, but some parents might feel it's worth paying more for.)

[ShaneD]

Another English major here, formerly with zero technical aptitude. I develop websites for a living -- mostly strategy, content, user experience, project management.

I'd taught myself HTML (back when this Web thing was still new) to get out of exactly those unsatisfying (for me) administrative positions. It's actually quite easy to learn if you've got an aptitude for language (and proofreading). From there I picked up just enough technical knowledge as was necessary to make things work, and, with experience, the tech side got gradually easier. Over time I've dropped most of the detailed code work and moved on to the larger, strategy-level work, all thanks to the English-major skills. Very little math needed (just basic Algebra), but detail-orientation definitely required.

[okits]

Strippers make pretty good money.  Just throwin' that out there. . .

Correction: FEMALE strippers make pretty good money.  Male strippers are woefully underpaid for the same work.  Just another example of gender bias in the workforce, for our friend windawake.

[[Reference Needed]]


As I recall, member Bakari does some webcam stripping for extra cash and reported decent pay.

I went looking for that topic.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/easy-money-in-your-spare-time-from-the-comfort-of-home/

He said he made $50 for about 20 minutes of work (I assume not 20 consecutive minutes.)

[AndreaGS]

I have a BA in English Literature and an MS in Writing and Book Publishing (I know, I know), and work for an engineering firm as a Proposal Manager, making a little over $60k/year after being in the field about 6 years (started at about $42k). Basically I am responsible for writing, editing, and laying out (desktop publishing) proposals to win work with state, federal, and local governments clients. A large part of my job is purely organizational: managing the technical folks to make sure they're getting me content on time, setting up reviews with senior folks, and getting them printed and delivered on-time. It's a great job because I get to be a little creative, am fairly autonomous, and while I don't make what the engineers make, it is a professional-level role for a stable company. Pretty much all architecture, engineering, or construction firms have these roles now. Usually the terms they use are Marketing Assistant, Marketing Coordinator, or Proposal Coordinator.

Nice! I work for the State in contracts, so I'm on the other side of this--reading proposals. I'd definitely say it's detail-oriented. So many of the proposals get DQ'd for missing things or not following instructions.

[SwordGuy]

There is no way around it, organization, time management, and focus are key. All these technical jobs, quality jobs, everything requires it. Basically a college degree is just a proxy for your organization skills and focus. That's why they are so in demand. I'm not particularly good at technical stuff, but I was able to focus long enough to get a masters degree in accounting. My advice is to go to a doctor, maybe you have undiagnosed adhd? Then get serious about learning those skills through self help books or whatever. The issue here is your perception of yourself, not your technical ability.

So, learn how to be organized, manage your time, and focus your efforts.    There are daily planner notebooks with very workable techniques that can be easily learned.  And, of course, the same techniques can be used with a computer or phone based planning tool.

[SwordGuy]

PS - You get better jobs and pay by doing better work, assuming more responsibilities, and learning more skills.   

[CletusMcGee]

Cletus, what sort of technical job do you have?

Software Developer (like 75% of the MMM readership apparently).  Although in my case many of my co-workers were hired back in the 90's when one could just walk into the interview and say "I know how to computer!" and be handed a dev job.  Standards are generally (and thankfully) more stringent now.

I would also echo what others have said about "soft" tech jobs.  I've met many an English major who works as a business analyst, application support specialist, etc who do just fine and are paid north of 60K.