HELP - Obsessing Over Stache Progress

[LPG]

I suspect that I have a similar problem to many of you - I dislike my job. I've been trying to find ways to come to terms with that, or find other options, and comments along those lines are strewn about this forum. I won't go into detail and rehash all of those. But I do want to talk about a specific one - I get deeply invested in the growth of my stache, because it comes to represent the freedom from having a job that I dislike, and that seems to drastically curtail my freedom.

When I say "get deeply invested in the growth of my stache", I mean things like checking it's growth daily. Even checking stock market performance multiple times a day, and trying to predict how much my stache will grow before the day is even over. At a job that I find very unrewarding (No recognition for good work, little hope of performance or taking on additional responsibility leading to higher pay), it takes the role of feeling like I have some ability to work towards a better future. Instead of being able to work hard to earn a better role/higher pay/more freedom, I end up hoping that the stock market will gain value, so my stache will grow, so I don't need the job anymore.

This was a lot of fun in 2016 and 2017. Mostly because it worked extremely well - those were great years for the stock market! But 2018, and especially the last few months, have been very different. It gets frustrating. Instead of watching my stache value consistently increase, giving me joy because I'm always one step closer to that freedom I covet so much, I'm watching it decrease in value...feeling like I'm getting farther from my goal every day. To be clear this hasn't proven to be enough to get me to change my behavior - still maxing both IRA and 401k, still investing spare cash in taxable accounts when possible, etc. However, it does lead to me feeling frustrated many days instead of happy, joyful, excited, and like I'm making progress.

How have the rest of you overcome this feeling? The real issue isn't the growth/lack of growth of the stache, it's the feeling of being stuck in a job I find unfulfilling. I get frustrated because I could work harder, produce better results, produce more results, take on more responsibility, but this company has convinced me that it will be ignored and lead to a salary that matches inflation at best. I can take online courses and learn new skills, which I do, but again there won't be a payoff for me as long as I'm here. This frustration always makes it very hard for me to engage, as I feel like I'm giving the company more effort, and making more money for them, but won't benefit me. Of course, the obvious solution is to find a different job. And I probably will. But I'm hoping to learn something that helps me find more satisfaction in situations like this, rather than constantly jumping around hoping to find a different situation.

How have all of your handled these sorts of situations? How do you avoid getting disengaged at work? How do you find a sense that your efforts can lead to a better future, even when your day to day efforts don't seem to be making a visible impacts?

[Freedomin5]

Look for a different job. You don’t necessarily have to take the job, just see what’s out there and start applying. That’s one way to start to feel more in control of your salary/job role. The typical rule of thumb is that you have to move jobs every two to three years to maintain salary/position growth. Most companies are not going to hand you things on a silver platter. Why would they offer to pay you more (on their own accord, without a catalyst), when they can pay you less for the same work?

Your stash gives you FU money — freedom to feel that you don’t need to be tied to your current job. If you get another (better) offer, you then force your company to either match it, or you then have the option to jump ship.

Reflecting back, I’ve basically applied for a new job every year. Updating my CV gives me a reason to reflect on my work accomplishments, and applying keeps my interview skills sharp. Plus you never know what interesting work might be out there. Most of these jobs have been part-time jobs on meaningful projects.

By applying for part-time work/side hustles, you also feel less dependent on your main job, especially if you can grow your side hustle to the point where it covers your basic living expenses. For a while. DH and I were living solely on my side hustle money and saving all of our normal salary. Until the side hustle company started making annoying business management decisions, at which point I resigned. Having the freedom to do so was awesome.

Another thing you can do is to negotiate a raise. I’ve done that four times in the past five years. Go prepared with facts to make your case. I believe there are threads on this forum discussing how to best negotiate a raise.

[BTDretire]

Oh ya, 2011 through half of 2018 was a great time to check daily and watch your money grow.
Now it is not. It is a marathon not a sprint, the market goes up and down in the short term but up in the long term.
 I had a forced retirement in late 2018, just as I was watching 6 years income disappear in the stockmarket.
Talk about sequence of return risk! Glad we over saved. Hey, got one year back today, but who knows what tomorrow will bring.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

The real issue isn't the growth/lack of growth of the stache, it's the feeling of being stuck in a job I find unfulfilling.

I had a similar job (attorney). Come in, bill six hours a day, leave; and when I tried harder, nothing really changed, I was on a salary, and I maybe got a pat on the back.  At that time, I obsessed over FIRE -- checked my spreadsheet and net worth a dozen times a day, played around doing napkin math all the time of when I could retire, and how long I'd have to work, etc.

I eventually couldn't take it anymore and started my own law practice. I've gone into much greater detail in other threads, but I honestly have so much career satisfaction that I simply don't even care about my FIRE stuff anymore.

That's largely because I now feel pretty damn financially independent.  I can make (almost) whatever I want and work however hard I want to work.  I got distracted in August and billed like $3,000 worth of work.  Who cares?

As of today, I haven't even updated my spreadsheet in like four months, which is insane by my standards.

So, the answer, I think, is for you to look for a new job.  Life is a lot more enjoyable when you get satisfaction from your job.

[use2betrix]

How far away are you from FIRE?

There really seem to be two, optimal viewpoints of the current situation based on people’s circumstances.

1. Around 3+ years to FIRE. In this case, it’s far enough away that this current turbulence should be viewed as an opportunity to buy stocks on sale instead of investing at their peak. The last 8-9 years has been one of the longest bull markets in history. Any reasonable person should have expected this at some point. Be it two years ago or two years from now, it shouldn’t be a big surprise. Time to keep with the current course and pump as much in while you can.

2. People around 2 years or less from FIRE. At that point, they have been on this path for a while and should understand their risk tolerance and be able to handle market fluctuations. They should be a. Mentally strong enough to be fully stocks and be able to handle the drops without stress or, b. Have a safe blend of stocks and bonds this close, and have a strong enough portfolio that it weathers this storm enough that it doesn’t cause too much stress.


I would imagine you are in group 1., as am I. It definitely sucks and it’s hard to see your hard earned money drop, but just remember that it’s better now than like the week of your projected FIRE start date.

In terms of the disdain for your job, as others mentioned, explore more options. Either you’ll find a better option, or realize that for your current skill set, you’re in the best position available and it makes it a little easier to stomach through it. I personally am not overly fond of my career for many reasons. Many of the people, the hours, the locations, volatile nature, etc. however, I understand that I make more than I would elsewhere to compensate for the downsides of my position.

[The_Dude]

I went through similar feelings in 2009. At the time  I wasn’t super focused on FIRE per se but I had seen my aggressive saving wipes out with net losses in my 401k after 9 years of working and was hating my job. For me, I quit in the middle of the Great Recession and used my low spending and large savings to take a sabbatical from works I quit without another job lined up. My family thought I was crazy. But it was this time off that caused me to stumble on the concept of FIRE on my own.

When I went back to work and started the new job I was much less anxious about when I would “retire” and was able to stomache the idea I’d be doing this for a while. It was so much easier to enjoy work days and more importantly weekends. Now that it’s been another 9 years I’m burned out on this job and ready for something else. I’m planning to take another break from work. It might be FIRE or it might be temporary and I go back to work. We will see.

I’ve also got some side hobbies and passions I could possibly earn some money with. It would be less than 10% of what I make in the corporate world but I could do it part time and it would partially  defray the drawdowns on my portfolio.

TL;DR it’s time for you to get a different job!

[LPG]

Thanks for the responses everybody! Very helpful, especially just knowing that several others on the FIRE path have struggled with feeling "stuck" in the same way at some point. It also helped me feel better about how much I change jobs - Sounds like it's not me bouncing around too much because I'm an inherently disgruntled person, but it's the nature of the way the economy works these days. That's soothing for sure.

Consensus says: New job! Fortunately, I've been talking to another company about joining them. It would give me a big boost in pay, put me in a position to start, build, and lead a department (Something I think I'll find fulfilling) and should lead to a big increase in pay. I'm also looking into Data Science bootcamps, as it's a natural extension of my career and would probably lead to quite a nice pay bump.

@ReadySetMillionaire could you talk about your transition from employee lawyer to self-employed lawyer? I've been thinking a LOT about making a similar transition (In research engineering, but same general idea) myself, and keep finding myself a bit gunshy. I do have a fair amount of cash saved up, but the thought of living in the SF Bay Area burning through cash, hoping to God I can find clients and successfully start up my own practice before I run out of savings keeps me back. Did you take action to establish yourself before quitting your job? Did you load up on cash savings in advance to give yourself extra time? How did you announce to the world that you were in business for yourself, and/or advertise your business?

[Mike in NH]

LPG one trick I have used to train myself is when the market is going up, I focus on the amount of money but when it is going down, I focus on the amount of shares. That way I always have something to reinforce that I'm still making progress.

As for meaning in an unfulfilling job, I have always just looked for my meaning elsewhere. I feel your pain though.

[Dicey]

Here's a forum tip, @LPG. You can click on a person's name, then on show posts. you can then see everything they've commented on. RSM mentioned that he has made a lot of posts, so try this and follow along in any direction that interests you.
Some people only post in their own journals (boo) but RSM is not one of them. You will find his helpful advice all over the place. His story is truly inspirational.

Adding on to the pile: New job time for you, buddy. Plus what @Mike in NH said.

[Abe]

I got rid of apps, etc that made it easy to check my accounts. Now I have to log on, get a code sent to my email, log onto the email, then finally get access. Also i forgot my password for a while and that helped break the obsessive cycle. Second thing was getting an new job, that definitely helps refocus your mental energy.

[NorCal]

I very much have the same issue.

To me, the realization is that FI isn't some fixed number in the sky you can withdraw 4% from.  The 4% rule is a simplification of complex market math.  If you're retiring when stocks are cheap, you could withdraw way more than 4%.  If you're retiring when stocks are expensive, 4% is the most you can take.

This is one of the things you have to be careful of with the 4% rule, since it arbitrarily makes retirement seem most feasible when it's actually the riskiest (since net worth is the highest when stocks are expensive).

I'm looking for an alternative mental shortcut that takes market valuation out of the picture.  I haven't decided precisely what I'm going to use.  It will be something along the lines of targeting dividends + interest equal to ~50% of my desired spending.  This way, I can always see my dividends growing, even if the market is going down.  It also takes some of the short termism out of my thinking, since most funds only pay dividends quarterly.

[undercover]

Meditation. Exercise. A hobby you enjoy. Many hobbies induce a meditative state if you're fully engrossed. For me a lot of video games do this. Anything that can "reset" your brain.

Maybe take a week long vacation somewhere alone? I have to have my alone time. I'd go crazy without.

Finally...having something lined up before quitting is overrated. As long as you have six months savings, don't be afraid to quit a situation that's impacting your mental health. But I wouldn't start with this route first.

You need to make your life enjoyable today by killing your bad habits instead of waiting for some eventuality because I can tell you life still doesn't stop when you hit your goal.

Another thing you could do is start diversifying your investments into real estate. This might have been what has kept me semi-sane as I am 100% real estate (although it definitely comes with its own share of headaches).

Honestly the reason I went real estate is because my investor personality is much more active. I didn't want to wait for some eventuality and I wanted to be in control of the outcome. Obviously that comes with its own drawbacks and it's not for everyone. When I was in the stock market, since I was going to be checking it anyway, I mostly had dividend paying stocks that I bought and sold. Not the best strategy long term but again since I was checking it anyway I wanted to be active and the feeling of receiving a consistent dividend beat waiting for the market to rise. I am not suggesting you do this, just telling you my experience.

Only other thing I could suggest is having a healthy amount of cash reserves via a CD somewhere. I know the rate is pathetic but it's more a mental aid than anything. You definitely want some FU money laying around at all times.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

ReadySetMillionaire[/member] could you talk about your transition from employee lawyer to self-employed lawyer? I've been thinking a LOT about making a similar transition (In research engineering, but same general idea) myself, and keep finding myself a bit gunshy. I do have a fair amount of cash saved up, but the thought of living in the SF Bay Area burning through cash, hoping to God I can find clients and successfully start up my own practice before I run out of savings keeps me back. Did you take action to establish yourself before quitting your job? Did you load up on cash savings in advance to give yourself extra time? How did you announce to the world that you were in business for yourself, and/or advertise your business?

Lots of questions there, but I'll try to unpack.

I basically always wanted to go out on my own, and it was just a matter of getting there.  I spent 3-4 years at a firm, and basically worked on a business plan the entire time I was there.

I then attempted to work with another solo practitioner in an attempt to transition.  This lasted about three months and was generally a disaster, although I did learn some things about being in a smaller practice.

At the time I left, I had the following:

-$20,000 cash saved up, and structured my finances at home so my wife's expenses covered 90% of home expenses;
-Two or three big cases that I thought would carry me through the year (immediate revenues); and
-A 36 page business plan.

The business plan was almost comical.  It was down to the font I would use on court filings, exactly what printer I would buy for my home office, how I would host my website, what bank I would use, etc.  But it let me hit the ground running.

There's a myth out there that attorneys should expect to lose money in the first 6-12 months.   That's mostly because you have to figure out how to do all sorts of nonsense, but I basically already had that figured out when I started.  FYI, and this is anecdotal given the small sample size, but I'm going on seven months and I've profited about $50k.

In terms of getting my name out there -- mailed all friends and family, started a website, regularly attended bar association events, kept in good touch with folks at my old firm, let other attorneys know I was accepting work, etc.

So, to wrap all this up -- make starting your own thing your "side hustle."  Let people you trust know that's your end game (HINT -- don't tell anyone who may let that info get back to your employer).  I probably had hundreds of hours into my practice before I even started it, but that let me hit the ground running.

I'd also recommend getting your house in order as well.  That really eases the burden and takes a lot of pressure off.

Best of luck to you.

[beer-man]

The real issue isn't the growth/lack of growth of the stache, it's the feeling of being stuck in a job I find unfulfilling.

I had a similar job (attorney). Come in, bill six hours a day, leave; and when I tried harder, nothing really changed, I was on a salary, and I maybe got a pat on the back.  At that time, I obsessed over FIRE -- checked my spreadsheet and net worth a dozen times a day, played around doing napkin math all the time of when I could retire, and how long I'd have to work, etc.

I eventually couldn't take it anymore and started my own law practice. I've gone into much greater detail in other threads, but I honestly have so much career satisfaction that I simply don't even care about my FIRE stuff anymore.

That's largely because I now feel pretty damn financially independent.  I can make (almost) whatever I want and work however hard I want to work.  I got distracted in August and billed like $3,000 worth of work.  Who cares?

As of today, I haven't even updated my spreadsheet in like four months, which is insane by my standards.

So, the answer, I think, is for you to look for a new job.  Life is a lot more enjoyable when you get satisfaction from your job.

I can echo that sentiment. Starting a new job where my extra work, effort, and attempt to work well with others  is noticed and rewarded has led to less obsession over FIRE but I still desire to be FI. Watching the stache stall or backfire is still frustrating though.


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