Help me through this - private school instead of crappy school...

[Cranky]

So yes, we have a very well defined idea of what academically  a "well-educated" person is and that stems from our experiences, and that is expressed in high academic rigor (think Singapore or Finland). It does not mean hours or homework, and hours spend in school. But it means proficiency in math, and exposure to a wide and deep reading material and writing expectations. When we were growing up, doing algebra in 6th grade was standard for all students, and not incredibly challenging with the right instructor, and now due to common core, algebra is taught in 9th grade! The wirting I had to do in 5 and 6th grade is HS level now. I did not think that impossible.

We can do algebra in 7th grade here in California.  It's the math compaction class.  I think typically kids do it in 8th grade. 

Back in the dark ages, I had algebra in 7th grade.

Back in the even Darker Ages, Algebra was absolutely a 9th grade class (and I was in the track that got extra math.)

10th grade was geometry, 11th grade was Algebra II, 12th grade was trig & analytic geometry. (My group was required to take Algebra II in summer school so that we could take a calculus class our senior year.)

It's been my observation that currently 7th grade algebra is a less rigorous version, because the kids are 12yo. It's easy enough for the publisher to slap an Algebra cover on what's essentially a pre-algebra textbook.

[iris lily]

The whole charter school issue varies from locale to locale so I would be careful about accepting a generalized point of view..

Here’s what happened in my urban core neighborhood: for two or three decades the public schools were very “bad “ so  my middle class neighbors sent their children to private school unless they could finagle a place in the public school’s  “magnet school” program.

I’m not sure where the magnet program is these days, but it doesn’t seem to be flourishing if it exists at all. Perhaps it died out with the ascendancy of charter schools.

So here’s where the charter school program is great because it finally, once and for all, put a neighborhood school right into our neighborhood. Yes, a  neighborhood school where kids can walk to school. Its  location is in my middle class gentrified neighborhood. But because public housing and poorer neighborhoods border ours, there is mix Socio economic clientele in the schools. The school has a neighborhood liaison who regularly comes to our neighborhood meetings to report on the needs and programs to the school. They have food drives for their poor students. They have money drives for school supplies.

It is the one thing our neighborhood wanted for 40 years Dash a neighborhood school. Now we have it.

[Zette]

If the school was half of what the tuition we have to pay was, I would enroll there in a minute because it represents some balance between academics/extras/social exposure.

You already have a strong opinion about which school you would prefer for your child if the costs were equal. How much would sending your child there delay FIRE?

[Mustache ride]

My vote is for private school if you've already vetted the public school and it isn't up to par.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

So yes, we have a very well defined idea of what academically  a "well-educated" person is and that stems from our experiences, and that is expressed in high academic rigor (think Singapore or Finland). It does not mean hours or homework, and hours spend in school. But it means proficiency in math, and exposure to a wide and deep reading material and writing expectations. When we were growing up, doing algebra in 6th grade was standard for all students, and not incredibly challenging with the right instructor, and now due to common core, algebra is taught in 9th grade! The wirting I had to do in 5 and 6th grade is HS level now. I did not think that impossible.

We can do algebra in 7th grade here in California.  It's the math compaction class.  I think typically kids do it in 8th grade. 

Back in the dark ages, I had algebra in 7th grade.

Back in the even Darker Ages, Algebra was absolutely a 9th grade class (and I was in the track that got extra math.)

10th grade was geometry, 11th grade was Algebra II, 12th grade was trig & analytic geometry. (My group was required to take Algebra II in summer school so that we could take a calculus class our senior year.)

It's been my observation that currently 7th grade algebra is a less rigorous version, because the kids are 12yo. It's easy enough for the publisher to slap an Algebra cover on what's essentially a pre-algebra textbook.

We did algebra in 7th grade, geometry in 8th, precal in 9th (skipped algebra 2).

Thank goodness for streaming.

OP, try to get your kid into a school that streams, if he/she is smart enough for it. Streaming has been shown to benefit the students who get streamed (at the expense of the ones who don't).

[Cranky]

So yes, we have a very well defined idea of what academically  a "well-educated" person is and that stems from our experiences, and that is expressed in high academic rigor (think Singapore or Finland). It does not mean hours or homework, and hours spend in school. But it means proficiency in math, and exposure to a wide and deep reading material and writing expectations. When we were growing up, doing algebra in 6th grade was standard for all students, and not incredibly challenging with the right instructor, and now due to common core, algebra is taught in 9th grade! The wirting I had to do in 5 and 6th grade is HS level now. I did not think that impossible.

We can do algebra in 7th grade here in California.  It's the math compaction class.  I think typically kids do it in 8th grade. 

Back in the dark ages, I had algebra in 7th grade.

Back in the even Darker Ages, Algebra was absolutely a 9th grade class (and I was in the track that got extra math.)

10th grade was geometry, 11th grade was Algebra II, 12th grade was trig & analytic geometry. (My group was required to take Algebra II in summer school so that we could take a calculus class our senior year.)

It's been my observation that currently 7th grade algebra is a less rigorous version, because the kids are 12yo. It's easy enough for the publisher to slap an Algebra cover on what's essentially a pre-algebra textbook.

We did algebra in 7th grade, geometry in 8th, precal in 9th (skipped algebra 2).

Thank goodness for streaming.

OP, try to get your kid into a school that streams, if he/she is smart enough for it. Streaming has been shown to benefit the students who get streamed (at the expense of the ones who don't).

In the US, that's called "tracking" and it's not too popular these days because it leads to sharp racial disparities.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Oh wow. Fair enough I grew up in the States 2.5 decades ago but in my day everyone got streamed from like, fifth grade onwards. We had for example - I think about 6 streams:
- "really slow" kids
- alternative
- regular
- honors
- accelerated (G&T)
- Magnet/AP

I assume it's a matter for individual school districts, but surely they still have Magnet/International Baccalaureate schools that stream?

Here in Australia there's not a lot of streaming at all.

[middo]

Oh wow. Fair enough I grew up in the States 2.5 decades ago but in my day everyone got streamed from like, fifth grade onwards. We had for example - I think about 6 streams:
- "really slow" kids
- alternative
- regular
- honors
- accelerated (G&T)
- Magnet/AP

I assume it's a matter for individual school districts, but surely they still have Magnet/International Baccalaureate schools that stream?

Here in Australia there's not a lot of streaming at all.

Streaming in Australia varies by school and system and state.  WA most government and private schools stream.  Less common over east, but in Melbourne most private will stream, and a significant number of govt stream.  This is in maths.  Other subjects don't really stream.  There are arguements for and against.  I'm not certain as an educator which side I sit, but streamed classes are easier to manage.

As for the OP, we educated all 3 of our kids private in Australia, but in 2 different systems.  The catholic education was fine, but the exclusive private one kid got led to self esteem issues later on.

It is a hard choice, but I would spend the dollars and go private.

[Blackeagle]

MMM’s post today may be relevant:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2021/04/18/the-self-educating-child/

[economista]

. . . (As long as the child is neuro-typical) . . .

With all due respect, you don't actually know yet if your child is neuro-typical yet or not. I certainly didn't know one of my children was dyslexic with ADD until they were in 4th grade. We learned they were gay in 6th grade and non-binary last month (9th grade). Luckily, this teenager has always gone to schools that at least had some ability to be  flexible with their education and I was able to advocate to make improvements in the things they weren't so great at. Some of the options you've presented frankly sound awful and I'd look into what options were available elsewhere, even it if meant moving.

Now, at kindergarten age I wouldn't go borrowing trouble by making sure the school you choose can cater to all possible problems, but I would leave your options open as much as possible. Even if that means delaying FIRE. I'm not willing to FIRE if it means my kids will suffer and I bet you wouldn't either.

Think long term. Kindergarten is easy, but it only lasts for 10 months. Homeschooling is fine too, but by the time your child is a young teen they're probably going to want to hang out with someone other than you. For many kids, that means school of some sort. If your FIRE plan doesn't allow for some flexibility then it may need some tweaking.

I wasn’t trying to say anyone would be guaranteed to know that at such a young age! It’s just that in other threads in the past when I’ve mentioned those studies I’ve gotten reamed by people arguing that it’s only the case with neuro-typical children and wouldn’t hold for children with special needs. So I was covering my bases and trying to prevent outrage.

Also, this is totally tangential but sometimes you do know by kindergarten that a child isn’t neuro-typical. Traits of autism spectrum can start to become obvious at 18 months, and we knew my daughter wasn’t going to be neuro-typical at 20 months gestation when her anatomy scan showed us that she was missing 2 structures in her brain.

[Michael in ABQ]

After rent, private school tuition is our largest household expense - roughly 20% of our after-tax income. It is definitely worth it for us though.

We started out knowing we wanted a larger family and my wife would be a stay at home mom and homeschool them. That worked fairly well for the first few kids, but by the time baby #6 arrived and she was trying to homeschool four kids and handle a newborn and a toddler we realized it was just too much. We started out with a private catholic school for the three oldest (at that time in 1st through 4th grade). It felt fairly similar to a public school with a lot of emphasis on testing and not a huge difference in curriculum. Plus it was a fairly large school with about 300 students. It wasn't bad, but for $10k+/- a year for three kids (plus an hour or so round-trip drive twice a day) it wasn't great either.

After one semester there we switched to a difference catholic school that we had originally liked more, but it was a little further away. This school has been absolutely worth it and we can't imagine going back. It's much smaller with less than 100 students. The principal and teachers are great. The curriculum is classical so they're learning Latin, have art and music classes, learn about history and literature, plus a much better religious experience (which is important to us). It's not ideal having to drive 25-20 minutes each way twice a day, but they also opened up in August and our kids have been in person this whole year while the public schools are just now about to re-open (a month before the end of the year).


"for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Our kids are where out hearts are. I can't think of a much better use for our wealth (modest as it is on a single income) than giving our children an excellent education in a good environment. 

[Car Jack]

If you're that close to being financially independent, move to somewhere with good schools. 

[nancyjnelson]

I went to a couple of different high schools as my father's company transferred him around the midwest.  In 10th grade I attended my favorite school, which was rated 2/10 - it was messy, diverse, flexible, open, fun, had pregnant teenagers, kids with difficult home situations, and lots of unusual classes to choose from.  I loved it and excelled academically, although it was easy for kids who didn't have parental support or who weren't self-motivated to fall between the cracks.  In 11th grade I attended one of the state's top high schools, rated 9 out of 10.  I still refer to it as the "nazi school."  Everything was lock-step, obeying the rules, toeing the lines, taking the right classes, getting the right grades, everything being uber-structured.  I hated it so much I took a night class (Jr. ROTC!) to be able to graduate a year early. I had classmates from the second school who really floundered in college because they had never had to make their own decisions or think for themselves.

Each kid is different.  Make a decision based on which will allow your child to shine.

 

[djadziadax]

Thanks for the additional comments...the general theme is that there is a "right" school for every kid. But the "best" schools can be stifling for some kids, terribly socially for other, etc.

This is such a good reflection and I appreciate that so many are making the same point.

[Milizard]

I went to a Catholic school for 1-6 grades, public for the rest. The Catholic school was great academically,  but horrendous socially.  I was bullied in 6th grade, which led to my asking to switch. Academically, 7th grade at the public school was like repeat of 6th grade at the  private school. (This public was one of the 2 best in the entire county.) I left the bullies behind,  though.

However,  every school is different.  I was very influenced by my peer group, as I believe most children are. If the atmosphere at the private school seems to be the best match for your child, then bite the bullet and spend the money. That is why we're all saving--so we can use our money on what we most value. I used to think I'd want to homeschool my kids, but I no longer think its that great an option.  I'm still working, though, and I completely agree with the poster who talked about the parent/child relationship being too authoritative. I would need be moreso, if I were to homeschool, and I  don't want that kind of relationship with my children.

[Dee18]

Our local public schools are "blue ribbon" with good test scores.  I happily sent my daughter there.  I was somewhat involved with the elementary school (room parent a couple times, reading tutor, field trip chaperone) and thought it seemed great.  But when we went overseas for a semester and she attended a private international school for the first half of 6th grade she blossomed.  Back in her home school she (a shy, quiet, bright, well-behaved student) again just went with the flow.  Between 6th and 7th grade I enrolled her in a few weeks summer program at an expensive, very diverse, private school.  She once again was engaged and challenged.  I finally gave up my devotion to public schools and enrolled her at the private school in 8th grade.  I only wish I had done it earlier.  I had a great experience at public schools, but for my daughter the small class size that meant she was called on daily, the diversity, and the encouraged freedom (students could stay after school until 5:00 to do homework in the library, play on the outdoor fields, or just hang out with their classmates---and teachers stayed one hour after school to answer questions) developed her confidence, independence and skills.  I spent $100,000 on her tuition there and it was worth every penny... and ameliorated by her full tuition scholarship to college. I agree with all the posters who said it depends on the child.  Do what you think is best and don't worry about what anyone else says...including me.

[CodingHare]

I think it's really scary to try to chart out your child's whole education path from start to finish.  But remember, as your kids gets older they will be your most valuable resource in determining what is the best fit for them.  And you have options and aren't locked in.

Some scenarios:
Maybe your kid isn't excelling academically no matter which school you put him in and it turns out the best fit is 1 on one 1 tutoring.

Maybe your kid has some neurodivergence they need help learning to cope with and your public school has an excellent program for reaching that audience (even if the rest of their "scores" seem bad for neurotypical kids.)

Maybe your kid is gay or nonreligious and that causes them stress at a religious school.  Maybe the religious school culture unintentionally encourages bad behavior/ideas (the Christian school kids I knew were weirdly way more focused on what "counted" as sex and how to have it under the radar while staying "pure" than any of the public school kids I met.  Less focused on safe sex, too...)  Or maybe the Catholic school is one that pays lipservice to religion but is in touch with best sex ed practices and teaches science well.

Maybe your kid doesn't click at one school socially.  Maybe they get bullied at the public school but not the private one, or vice versa.  Maybe they flourish under homeschooling and maintain strong friendships!  Maybe they don't.

The point is, all of those scenarios are possible.  You can't control what happens.  The best thing you can do is engage with your child as they grow older to make sure you are meeting their needs.

[mm1970]

Oh wow. Fair enough I grew up in the States 2.5 decades ago but in my day everyone got streamed from like, fifth grade onwards. We had for example - I think about 6 streams:
- "really slow" kids
- alternative
- regular
- honors
- accelerated (G&T)
- Magnet/AP

I assume it's a matter for individual school districts, but surely they still have Magnet/International Baccalaureate schools that stream?

Here in Australia there's not a lot of streaming at all.

We still have "tracking" to some degree, starting in 7th grade.  Hence my kid doing 7th-9th compaction in 7th&8th, and he's now in 9th and compacting again.

However, we have honors math and college prep math, and 3 different places to do math compaction.  So, you can compact at any point almost, and just some kids will compact at every chance.  Thus, if you have difficulty in early math, you can compact later, which helps avoid the racial disparities somewhat.
--------------

As far as individual kid's needs, I think COVID has really shone a light on that.  My son is doing MUCH better in person, partly because he's that kid who likes to ask questions in person, and partly because second semester classes are easier.

One of his good friends is struggling with in person (he is on the spectrum).  He was doing fabulously in the fall with virtual, getting straight A's, including in AP computer science.  He's struggling with math this spring, and his mom thinks a lot of it is the change to going back in person.

The boys eat lunch together every day.