help for my 93-year-old dad

[minima]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any advice you might have-

I'm writing to help gather info on what might help my 93-year-old dad with some money anxieties that he shouldn't have to face after a productive working and investing life hampered by some difficult life problems.

My dad is a WWII vet and architect, has always been active, frugal in general, not wasteful, and eager to do his own work on designing, building, and repairing structures. He's honest, remains hardworking and constantly inventive, patient, and smart. I'm lucky to have such a great dad.

My mom is also terrific-- funny, compassionate, open and enthusiastic, creative, and generally good-natured. She also has developed dementia that at times hinders these qualities and makes life harder for my dad. But again, I'm lucky to have such a great mom. My sister, who has emotional/psychological problems and now ongoing health problems, is completely dependent on my parents.

My parents bought a property in a small town near Austin which had a building built from 2 100+-year old log cabins and a concrete floor barn. The property is beautiful, sits on a hill, has a pond, is centrally located, and now includes a 2-bedroom house that my dad designed and built. He used materials from the area, including hardwoods recycled from the high school basketball court, and did as much of the work himself as was possible. They rent the barn out for weddings and parties to bring in extra income and used to use the log cabin house as a bed and breakfast, but now it serves to house my sister.

My dad now does all the work to rent the barn, prepare leases, clean, and decorate it- along with keeping up with all the repairs and other necessary expenses. For many years the barn paid for itself and brought in enough continual income to take care of the house and pay for the expenses for my sister The problem now is that the rentals have decreased as the necessary repairs have increased and my dad has used his savings to keep up.

The property is worth at least a million dollars and potentially more. The obvious answer to this is for him to sell the property, downsize and move to an area that's more conducive to a less stressful lifestyle. But he's completely opposed to this because of my mom's disorientation and his fear about managing a move at his and my mom's age, not knowing what to do with my sister, and reluctance to deal with 70+ years of stuff. He just wants relief from the constant pressure of bills, which he sorely deserves as the person who takes care of all the needs for my mom and sister-- and at 93!

I visit as much as I can and help with the work as much as I can, but I live out of town and accessibility is difficult. I have savings that I've offered to my dad but he's adamant in his refusal to borrow money from his daughter. My job hinders me from moving and I'm in a unique employment situation which leaves me without satisfactory options.

What he wants is a way to borrow $100K against the property and not have to pay it until its eventual sale. This arrangement sounds to me like a reverse mortgage but I've discouraged him to go this route because the little I know leads me to understand that reverse mortgages are dangerous.

I'm little versed in financial planning or even basic understanding of much of what seems like mumbo-jumbo to me. Do any of you have ideas or advice about this?

Thanks in advance!
minima

[UKMustache]

I saw an article on this recently.  I can't remember the exact details but basically they lived a lot longer than they expected and as a result of the way those equity release schemes work the estate was basically zero when they died.  They owed almost the entire amount to the bank.

I appreciate that this is unlikely to concern a mustachean, an inheritance is after all an expected windfall and not a certainty to plan your life around.

However in your position my concern would be the dependent sibling, what would happen in the above situation if the proceeds from the property sale mostly went on paying back the bank?

[druth]

Could he sell or lease the barn, and sell the business along side that deal?  That seems much more sustainable than him doing the work himself.  That leaves him just with his own property and the daughters to deal with instead of that plus running a business.

[ltt]

Are you willing to leave your job/move to help your parents basically run a business?  Could you bring profitability to it?   I would think that you would need to call your local department of health and human services to find out some answers in regard to your sister.  How old is your sister?  Is she on any kind of state aid?  Does she work?  If not, maybe she would need to get on aid/housing assistance.  The other thought is to call an attorney and see what your options are--but as another poster mentioned, I think the first thing that needs to be dealt with is the sibling, and helping her to live (with assistance) on her own.  I don't imagine it is easy for your parents. 

[accolay]

Be careful, this is a trap! The simplest solution is the most obvious: that your dad is 93 and needs to sell the place and move mom where she will be safe. Role reversal blows. Same thing happened to my grandpa and his last years of life were stress instead of joy, paying the bills and managing a bunch of properties and stuff. You're not alone as this is happening around the country to families while the greatest generation and boomers age. Most of the time when people refuse to make the obvious logical decision at that age health of the active parent, an event with the sick parent or both will force their hand. You can't stop the inevitable.

While I understand your pain and we all want to help our parents, how long must we be obligated to enable bad decisions? How much time from your life are you really willing to contribute? Before you answer, remember this could obligate you for years.

Good luck.

[minima]

Wow, what an awesome forum! Thanks to you for your responses that I received so quickly! It's great to hear back from smart people with good sense--

Yes, UK Mustache, you're exactly right- I don't care about the inheritance, but I'll have to have something to make sure I'm able to continue taking care of my sister and that's a tricky part-

Druth, I've talked to my dad about that, but unfortunately, the sale of the barn separately wouldn't be feasible under his circumstances. It helps him defer costs for the whole property since he has a business write-off. Also,  since it's just a few yards from the house, he's concerned about cars and other people next to the house. It sits on a shared driveway.

Under other circumstances, ITT, that might work, but I have a $100K job as a professor (and I love working with students and publishing) and the money my dad makes on the barn is pretty limited. It's about $1500- $1800 per party so it really just covers the expenses of repairs, upkeep on the property as a whole, and expenses needed to take care of my sister.

My sister is 59 and doesn't work. She has some problems that have kept her from working for nearly 20 years and my parents have helped her that whole time. She's not on state assistance and my dad is too proud to go for that anyway. It's a tough situation because even when I talk to him I have to keep a fine balance between suggesting approaches that would help and wounding him with what feels to him like suggestions for completely unacceptable approaches. My sister refuses to even consider getting psychological help and it's hard for my parents to accept the depth of the problems she has.

A few years ago I met with my parents' atty myself to talk with him about the will and my responsibilities as executor (before my sister's physical illness and while the income from the barn was still good) and it looked like at the time that everything was set up in a reasonable way. But my sister's problem is worse now and the income has diminished, thus the result from the changes. Yeah, and you're absolutely right. The greatest problem is the emotional toll it takes on my parents. It's life on a bed of eggshells between dealing with my sister's emotional volatility and my mom's problems with her dementia.

You're right, of course, Accolay-- I've asked my dad many times to do just that-- sell the place and move to a better situation.  Given the ability to do so, I'd make sure this happened in a heartbeat. But he just won't budge. And I don't want to make things worse by trying to pressure him. At this point he feels like I'm his only consistent ally. I sure don't want to diminish his self-perception and sense of self-worth in the process of trying to help and I know that this may blow up into a situation where he *has* to sell. But I'd rather see that happen than pressure him now. And ultimately it's his decision and his business. Even at 93 his life is more robust than a lot of 50-year-olds I know so he's a competent full-thinking adult. I know that eventually this will all become my problem, but I'm lucky enough to have the kind of parents I'd be happy to bear the burden for---

Thanks once again to all of you!
minima

[Rural]

Are you in a position to hire some help for him (perhaps for the business or perhaps made more palatable as help for your mom)? And would he accept it? It might let him continue with the dignity and robust life you both want for him, and it would likely be less costly than many or most spend helping elderly parents.

[esq]

What a tough spot.  Your Dad sounds like a wonderful guy.  Would he listen to his attorney?  Maybe if presented with numbers, like costs of upkeep and staying vs. savings through a sale and move (with a promise of lots of help going through all their stuff).....

Best of luck with it all.

[starguru]

If I were u I would hire a by the hour financial advisor and see if they could come up with anything.

Also perhaps ask on the bogleheads forum for more opinions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[minima]

Rural, you're thinking like I did, but I had no luck. I offered to pay for some help for my mom and for my dad and encouraged them to use what they have available to them through insurance, but as is the pattern, my dad refused and was a little insulted that I offered. My mom's dementia is problematic to the point where if a stranger comes into the house she thinks that the person is stealing from her. This kind of fantasy paranoia that comes with dementia is pretty common. It's just another layer of a tough situation-- although during my 3 week visit now, so far, she's been pretty much herself.

Thanks, esq-- Yeah, my dad really is a great guy. And that's part of the difficulty since I want to ensure that he maintains his empowered spirit in dealing with the new financial issues he's facing. He's been good about taking advice from his atty- also seems to be a good guy. But the financial wrinkles are a new problem and not the kind of problem my dad would want anyone to know about. He's gone to the atty for the will and some other "everyday" help, but this one is a different issue.

And starguru, I think hiring a financial advisor by the hour is a great approach. I made some headway with my dad today on this tack and he agreed that this would be a good idea. Do you have advice on how to find someone trustworthy? My parents had some info a few years ago about someone near town who was highly recommended and I suggested today that my dad talk to him. Is there another layer of questioning that might help us ensure a good choice?

Thanks again for your responses-- what a great forum!

[Lulee]

He absolutely needs to sell the place and move to an assisted-living facility that can help him care for your mother.  Your sister has to be moved to an appropriate facility as well where she has help and is near enough for him to spend time with her as well while not shouldering her day-to-day care.

My thought on forcing the issue is to point out (or have the attorney and financial advisor do it) how he cannot continue on as is and is at risk of either dying or running out of money while both women still need care if he goes down the path he’s thinking of.  If your folks sell out, he can put the cash in a trust that cares for them all and focus on spending time enjoying your mom's company and ensuring she gets a high level of care.  Yes, she’ll be disoriented by the move but it will only get worse the longer he puts it off, possibly to the point where she's just terrified and confused to the point of needing a level of sedation to get through the day.  If she's lucid for a long enough time, she might be able to convince him that she'd rather he didn't risk killing himself with stress but instead spend quality time with her for as long as Life will allow them to have.

You likely will shoulder a lot of the effort in locating a few facilities near their current home for them to consider that are good quality and have aspects you know will appeal (e.g., a lovely garden for sitting together in the evening or a nice dining common with food choices they’d enjoy).  I suspect your sister will really not want to go along with any this but again, given a few options to choose from, knowing you’ve culled out any bad eggs, she’ll have some control in the choice, certainly more than if your dad passes away from the continued stress as caretaker for these two.

A couple my mom used to clean house for were in a similar situation although the illness forcing the change was his, not hers.  They sold out, over her reluctance, and move to a facility that had varying levels of support.  She still lives in their apartment, enjoying company of a lot of other healthy seniors in the place.  He moved through varying areas as his day-to-day care needs increased, right up to his death.  She now says it was a wise if hard choice he made for them but the right one.

As far as possessions, they should be able to take a number of things with them, the important ones they'd want.  The ones you first think of wanting to save in a “What if there was a fire coming and I had just 30 minutes to grab my most precious things” kind of scenario.  Some of the rest could be passed along as gifts to friends and family members and then the remaining items donated to help families in need to start a new home.  That sounds like a happy thought for your folks, their leftovers helping people in need.

At a guess, you may need to use some family leave to help him with this since it really shouldn't wait until your Summer break.  Once it is done though, I’m positive he will be glad for the effort as he can dial back on his stress and focus on making your mom's final lucid moments happy.

Best of luck with this!  Dementia is a cruel beast, hellish to those suffering from it and the loved ones trying to cope.

[bogart]

I'm sorry you're facing all this (and your dad, mom, and sister, too of course).

I don't know where your mom is, in her dementia, or what other health issues she may have if any, but if she is still relatively "with it," likely to live awhile, and to need a more care-focused setting later (e.g. a retirement community with skilled nursing care), there's a good argument for your dad moving now -- I dealt with my dad's decline into dementia and your dad is right, it's really, really hard for people with dementia to deal with change (unsurprising when you think about it, but of course many of us don't unless we need to), and that gets worse with time -- so if change is going to be needed, better sooner than later based on my experience with my own dad.

It's my understanding there are some "decent" reverse mortgages and others, not so much.  Your family's property sounds unique, so may not be a good candidate for one anyway, but -- if you are faculty making $100K, you are around people who are smart and who make, save, and have lots of money.  Ask several of your senior colleagues (not necessarily close colleagues, just people with their financial act together) if they use the services of a financial advisor they can recommend.  You probably want someone who's a CFP (Certified Financial Planner, it's a real professional accreditation, you can google it) and who's paid by the hour.  So find someone and go meet with them and see what they can recommend.

GL to you.

[Frankies Girl]

It sounds like your dad doesn't really want your help in figuring out what to do. What it sounds like is he wants for things to stay the same and not have to make any real changes.

In other words, he's deeply in denial about the entire situation and is not going to welcome any rational/logical arguments that would make the most sense - like selling the too large, expensive property that is now losing money, and get his wife into assisted living and the daughter into assistance programs so she can be taken care of without him being the provider.

The reality is that he's 93 years old. He may live another 5 years with no health issues, or he may go any time. But he is technically living on borrowed time at this point, his wife is suffering from dementia and relies completely on him, and his daughter is unable to support herself without him. The facts are the following:

1. Once he's gone, both his wife and daughter will require someone to step in and take care of them both. This will be you.

2. By not making arrangements NOW, he's leaving all of this to be your headache to deal with when he dies, which could be any time really, on top of detangling his estate and property messes. This is truly awful.

3. He is deliberately refusing to see the mess he's going to leave you with. He shoots down all the good moves he could be making NOW to fix the situation because of pride/stubborness/denial that he is going to die sooner rather than later. This is also awful.

4. If he truly was trying to be a good, responsible parent/spouse, he would be taking steps to make sure his daughter was on assistance and started laying the groundwork or her to be alone without his support. Same for his wife. He doesn't seem to get that he isn't going to be around forever, and by not taking care of things now and transitioning them both into care programs, he's doing them both (and you) a huge disservice. When something does happen to him, if they were already comfortably settled into a new routine, it would lessen so much stress and heartache on everyone that is left behind.

Now whether you can even talk to him about this stuff? That's the real question. And whether he'd actually really listen? Another hard one...

[MoseyingAlong]

This actually sounds like a great use of a reverse mortgage. I recommend looking into them a little more. There are some good ones. Yes, they have costs but so does selling a property and finding somewhere else to.live.

It could be a great way to get some liquidity from their real estate without the emotional and physical strain of moving from a place they know. Some of it could be used to hire help.

For your sister, without knowing more details, this may be a place for a special needs trust. If your dad is open to it, another meeting with the attorney may be well worth your time.

Best wishes to your whole family.

[accolay]

1. Once he's gone, both his wife and daughter will require someone to step in and take care of them both. This will be you.

2. By not making arrangements NOW, he's leaving all of this to be your headache to deal with when he dies, which could be any time really, on top of detangling his estate and property messes. This is truly awful.

3. He is deliberately refusing to see the mess he's going to leave you with. He shoots down all the good moves he could be making NOW to fix the situation because of pride/stubborness/denial that he is going to die sooner rather than later. This is also awful.

4. If he truly was trying to be a good, responsible parent/spouse, he would be taking steps to make sure his daughter was on assistance and started laying the groundwork or her to be alone without his support. Same for his wife. He doesn't seem to get that he isn't going to be around forever, and by not taking care of things now and transitioning them both into care programs, he's doing them both (and you) a huge disservice. When something does happen to him, if they were already comfortably settled into a new routine, it would lessen so much stress and heartache on everyone that is left behind.

These are some really valid points as well. It's really a tough situation to be in when you want to help family but in the end you just have to stand back and watch a train wreck in slow motion, while knowing it's going to put a burden on you in the end. Just remember you're not alone and it happens everyday. I've seen this not only in my family, but in many other families while at work. Your dad has the right to free will now, but the reality is that something will eventually happen and you'll have to take over. Best thing to do is wait until then and have your plan already in place. Keep working on your dad, and maybe he'll start to feel that there may be a better way. Also remember that you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else not only financially, but also regarding caregiver burnout.

I'm not an expert, but I'm no fan of reverse mortgages.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/askcfpb/228/how-do-i-know-that-a-reverse-mortgage-is-a-good-idea-for-me.html

All the best.

[Rural]

On the financial issues: do you have a business school at your university? They are likely to have contacts if you trust their advice on planners.

[Milizard]

It sounds like your dad doesn't really want your help in figuring out what to do. What it sounds like is he wants for things to stay the same and not have to make any real changes.

In other words, he's deeply in denial about the entire situation and is not going to welcome any rational/logical arguments that would make the most sense - like selling the too large, expensive property that is now losing money, and get his wife into assisted living and the daughter into assistance programs so she can be taken care of without him being the provider.

The reality is that he's 93 years old. He may live another 5 years with no health issues, or he may go any time. But he is technically living on borrowed time at this point, his wife is suffering from dementia and relies completely on him, and his daughter is unable to support herself without him. The facts are the following:

1. Once he's gone, both his wife and daughter will require someone to step in and take care of them both. This will be you.

2. By not making arrangements NOW, he's leaving all of this to be your headache to deal with when he dies, which could be any time really, on top of detangling his estate and property messes. This is truly awful.

3. He is deliberately refusing to see the mess he's going to leave you with. He shoots down all the good moves he could be making NOW to fix the situation because of pride/stubborness/denial that he is going to die sooner rather than later. This is also awful.

4. If he truly was trying to be a good, responsible parent/spouse, he would be taking steps to make sure his daughter was on assistance and started laying the groundwork or her to be alone without his support. Same for his wife. He doesn't seem to get that he isn't going to be around forever, and by not taking care of things now and transitioning them both into care programs, he's doing them both (and you) a huge disservice. When something does happen to him, if they were already comfortably settled into a new routine, it would lessen so much stress and heartache on everyone that is left behind.

Now whether you can even talk to him about this stuff? That's the real question. And whether he'd actually really listen? Another hard one...

+1

This. All of this.

[minima]

Thanks, Lulee, particularly for the support- (and to all of you for this, too)  These are all good approaches; I just hope I can at some point talk my dad into it.

Bogart Rural, and Frankies Girl-- You pointed out what I should have thought of 1st thing and it's a great idea. I guess the stress of considering my dad's issues has fried my own brain a little. As soon as I get back to my town I'll see someone from our business school. I have some contacts there anyway and I can start with that. Usually I'm pretty McGyverish about things so I'm surprised the simpler approach didn't come to me. I talked with my dad about this and he likes the idea, too, and I can meet with the advisor myself and relay info back to my dad.

Yeah, Frankie's Girl and Milizard, you hit the bullseye with the big problem, that my dad wants the problem to go away without making changes. He's just overwhelmed by everything at this point.

And Bogart and MoseyingAlong, even though I'm fearful, I'll look closely at the possibility of a reverse mortgage in a very careful and well-planned way. Honestly, my dad doesn't want a huge amount of money in relation to the value of the property, but he just wants to feel some relief. The odds are that the smallest reverse mortgage that will allow some security in terms of immediate needs might accomplish what's he's really after, which is too get rid of immediate pressure.

I don't worry about my own retirement issues (as a happy frugalist) so my sister's needs would be covered by the eventual sale of the property when the inevitable happens; my parents looked into setting up a trust for her and nobody wanted the responsibility since she has sticky emotional issues--and those who might be talked into it would have to charge so much to administrate the trust and make it worthwhile, it wouldn't be economically feasible. In the case that something happens to me 1st my own savings and retirement would cover their needs.

Thanks to all of you!

[Maenad]

1. Once he's gone, both his wife and daughter will require someone to step in and take care of them both. This will be you.

2. By not making arrangements NOW, he's leaving all of this to be your headache to deal with when he dies, which could be any time really, on top of detangling his estate and property messes. This is truly awful.

I wanted to stress these points - can you approach this situation from this angle? The fact that if he gets in a car accident tomorrow that you will be the one who will have to deal with this, from a distance?

Which reminds me, you may want to research places for your mom and sister now, regardless. If your dad stays in denial until his own death, you'll have the groundwork laid.

I wish you all the best.

[minima]

Thanks, Maenad-

Yes, your suggestions make sense-- My dad has life insurance that he feels like can cover in case he's had an accident. And my mom's health is such that she's more likely to have a problem than my dad and less likely to live as long. My sister's issues will be a problem in any case, but the estate will manage her needs well with a sale when the eventuality for that occurs.

And that's a good suggestion to research options for my mom and sister now, too.

I've talked to my dad about my level of responsibility and the ultimate overwhelming level that will be the next step on the path he's taking and he's aware of it but uncharacteristically seems to have accepted that I'll manage it. I''m still working a little at a time to move him into a position of change now. I think with a meeting with a solid financial advisor and some research on my part to make a case for a transition to a different approach he might be willing to take the more appropriate steps. He's not completely in denial but pretty close.

In any case, I appreciate so much the suggestions and support from you and the rest of the MMM forum. It's so great to be a part of an online interchange with such a positive spirit--

Thanks to all of you and very best wishes for your own good health and happiness-

[Milizard]

Another obvious answer: your sister is going to have to go on some kind of public assistance eventually.  Best to start the process now.

[minima]

Thanks, Milizard- Yeah, that's a good point about my sister. Public assistance will someday become necessary but I hope to avoid it as long as we can so she's not a burden on the public system.

Best wishes--

[FIRE Artist]

I have no advice, but this thread makes me think there needs to be an eldercare section on this forum as it has as much potential impact on someone's FIRE as childcare and there are several threads about it.

[begood]

minima, I feel for you. You're in a tough spot.

Your dad's reluctance/unwillingness/inability to face reality (he's 93, his property is in decline and costing money rather than making money, your mother's dementia will not remain static and she will only decline as well) tells me that though he is in incredible shape for 93, he too is experiencing cognitive decline.

What he's trying to do is "age in place". He wants that for himself, your mother, and your sister. But whereas for him, that might mean only a few years, it could be more than that for your mother as she declines, and it could literally be decades for your sister. Is he imagining that your sister will stay in that cabin for the remainder of her life?

In my family, we have a saying: "Who is driving the bus?" In this case, your dad is the only one who's getting to drive the bus. There will come a point - and it could be sooner rather than later - where someone else is going to have to drive that bus, EVEN IF they stay on the property via a reverse mortgage.

Your mother is going to need additional care eventually. Nothing wears an old person down more quickly than taking care of another old person.

While you are there now, I recommend adding one more thing to your research list: home health care providers. Tell your dad you want your mother to get used to someone before her dementia gets worse - then the home health aide won't be a "stranger" in the house.

[Zoot]

Would a home equity line of credit be an option in this situation?  He could draw from it whenever he needed it, and then it could be paid back in full at the time the property is sold, whenever that happens.  It would come at the cost of the interest rate on the balance, though, so that's something to consider.

Just a thought!

[Warlord1986]

Parents refusing to act in their own best interests. You and I should form a support group.

I have no suggestions on convincing them to be practical, at least no suggestions other than 'Tie Them Up And Cart Them To The Lawyer's Office To Discuss Planning.' However, as a veteran, your dad should be eligible to work with USAA, which is a wonderful investment, insurance, and financial planning company. Lord, but I love USAA. They might be willing to talk to you (and him) about his options to prepare for the future. While my parents often refuse to listen to me, they are somewhat more open to advice from a third party.

[Iplawyer]

Make sure he has frozen the property taxes on the property as allowed for anyone over 65.

[minima]

Thanks, begood- I appreciate your support. I think my dad's plan is to stay in the house until the very last minute possible. But earlier when my mom's problems began we looked into health care providers who could help in the house if she gets to the point where she's really unable to manage. Their insurance actually provides pretty well for this, but for now she's not declining too quickly except that her dementia makes paranoia kick in when someone is in the house and she thinks that people are stealing from her. So the idea is to leave things as they are until it's completely necessary because when that time comes the household will be constantly unpeaceful. We've had friends who have been close to my mom and who she loves do all they could to help and even with them the dementia creates paranoia that leads her to assume that they're stealing from her and that they and my dad are plotting against her. My mom has always been one of the most positive, good natured, caring people I know, so when this happens the dementia really takes a toll.

I think the bottom line for my dad is that he wants to maintain the peace as long as possible because the help they've had from friends in the past has actually made things worse--and she already complains about the potential for stealing if a care provider comes into the house.

Zoot, I've wondered about a home equity line of credit, too, thinking that I remembered that it could be a good means to accomplish what my dad needs. Since I've just learned about the depth of problems with financial issues this week and I've been busy with errands and helping my folks while I'm here I haven't had a chance to start with serious research. It's definitely on my list.

Warlord1986, I'm sorry to know that you're going through this, too--and wish you the best of luck with your own situation. My dad has been a USAA member (and me, too, as a family member) for many years and we both think USAA is great. We decided yesterday that we'd go to the closest USAA office and see if we could talk with someone. In fact, right before I learned about the MMM forum after I got far enough in reading the MMM posts from the beginning to wake up to it, I had posted my same query on the USAA site. I got a somewhat helpful post back, but honestly, the MMM community has really been terrific and have given me more ideas to work from. I hope things smooth out for you and your folks-- and really, this forum is a kind of support group in itself.

ddmesser- Thanks for the advice about freezing property taxes. I didn't know anything about that one and it sounds like an important benefit-

Thanks once again to all of you and best wishes to all!

[former player]

As a immediate and temporary solution, can your father get a local handyman to do the maintenance work?  If they are doing maintenance/cleaning/decoration to the barn, your sister's cottage, the outside of your parent's home and the grounds, then that takes stress and work from your father while minimising the worry for your mother.   Is there anything you can do to increase income at the barn?  If your father has decreased advertising and marketing as he gets older and more stressed, then that might be something you could do remotely, and perhaps it would help pay for the handyman.

There is no solution based around keeping the property, whether a reverse mortgage or not, which is not just a temporary bandage, as the real problem is the amount of work that needs doing and which your father can no longer keep up with, and which at 93 he shouldn't have to.   I suspect that the biggest barrier to your father selling up and moving is actually your sister.  So if you can research housing options for her and present them to your father that might be the way forward, pointing out to him that she will inevitably become your responsibility in time and that you want to find a sustainable long-term future for her now.   Is your sister entitled to disability, or to social security, or will she be soon?  If she is, that would bring in a certain amount of money.  It's an entitlement, so your father as her next of kin shouldn't have any difficulty with ensuring that it is claimed.  It is no longer sustainable for your father to bury his head in the sand on this one, and you need her set up now, in housing and finances, in a way which will see her through the rest of her life.  If you put it as you taking over responsibility for her, both in finding housing and getting her finances sorted, it might be a big relief for your father and enable him to cope better with the rest of what he has to deal with.

[mrsfrugaln]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Yout dad sounds like a wonderful man. I'd recommend you tread very carefully with reverse mortgages. I work in the mortgage industry (risk management side...not sales!) and am very leery of this product. While it's been a few years since I've dealt with them directly, I remember there being a lot of caveats that could have potentially bad implications...especially for your situation. For instance, when the borrower no longer occupied the home as their primary residence, the balance comes due. If your Dad was to pass before your mom and was the only one on the loan, it would need to be paid at his passing even though your mom and sister were still living there. That could force you to sell or refinance the home at a time when you'll have enough other stuff to deal with. You could have your mom on the loan (if she's considered competent to enter a legal contract), but your sister is not old enough to be on it (minimum age is 62).

I remember the commissions paid to the salesperson (aka mortgage loan officer) being really high too. Hope this helps and best of luck to you.

[anotherAlias]

How much work does the barn need to have it make money decently again?  Is that 100k noted in the first post just materials or is that to hire work?  If the latter and if there is room on the property, could you advertise to the RV living community as a work for parking space kind of thing.  I lurk on forums where people do that sort of thing all the time.  Not sure if it would help in your case but thought I'd help with the creative brainstorming.  Merry Christmas.

[former player]

On reverse mortgages, I would say that there are (subject to location: I'm in the UK) different sorts of arrangements out there.  I bought my latest rental after my neighbour died: she had some sort of arrangement that paid an annuity based on 50% of the value of her home: it kept her comfortable and meant that her heir (her nephew) still got 50% of the value when she died.  She lived modestly but comfortably until she died aged 101 and he now had a good sum of money to enliven his retirement.

So look at the terms carefully: there are different options out there and one of them might work well for your situation, depending on how it works.

[minima]

former player and justchristine-- The property is actually in good shape overall and doesn't need repairs to operate and for the mechanicals to work. The pressure my dad feels is really only in response to those occasional needs that come up like when has an isolated plumbing problem or need to fix the AC in Texas summer, etc-- It's just the occasional needs that throw him since he can't seem to get enough rental income to keep a high enough balance for him just to relax.

He had a helper who cleaned the barn for him before parties but he decided it was costing too much and he does the work himself now. And he does have some long term helpers who take care of the grounds-and after 30 years of it, always charge less than others would. In fact, many years ago when my dad first hired the man who keeps the yard (and who has become a friend) the man wanted to charge so little my dad told him he needs to charge his customers more and paid him more than he asked for. The man has built a great business for the community and expanded it quite a bit and always looks out for my dad now.

My folks have a website and chamber of commerce advertising and they actually have had, in the past,  more business than they can handle through word of mouth. But the closure of the bed and breakfast next to the barn has affected rentals and the economy in the town and in the immediate area has dropped quite a bit. (We did have a couple from LA come by to take a look at the venue yesterday, so word continues to spread). The bed and breakfast houses my sister more economically than it was to maintain her prior residence, so in the overall, it still makes for a better income/outflow ratio.

Honestly, he doesn't need many more rental dates than he has to make things work and he wouldn't want more. It's a lot of work to keep up with it. In many ways it's good for him because he stays engaged and it keeps him in great shape and provides a means for my mom, too, to interact with the people who rent the property. They get holiday cards from people who were married at their place 20 years ago and it's not uncommon for couples to stop by after many years for a visit.

mrsfrugaln, unfortunately, the RV rental space idea (and some others that I suggested like IT space or storage space) aren't palatable since the rental property sits so near their house. They don't want a lot of people and cars around on a regular basis-- and so far the rentals for the barn have been sporadic enough--but in the past constant enough-- to provide a good balance.

former player, I'm not sure my sister would qualify for disability and her situation is pretty volatile. It's a whole problem of its own that also has no good solutions. And I'm with you that my dad can't bury his head in the sand over this. This week he's beginning to come around to the idea of changes but it's going to be a process.


justchristine, the $100K I mentioned in the 1st post was what my dad thought would make him feel out from under pressure for the rest of his life. Relative to the value of the property it's not overwhelming. But now he's beginning to say that he thinks $50K might be enough to give him some breathing room. I keep offering to help, even with the loan amount, but he's adamant that he won't do that. Once I'm able to sit down with a financial advisor and do some more of my own research I'll feel more confident about approaches.

I've been reading about both the reverse mortgage, that I still don't feel comfortable about but want to look into further, in part thanks to the MMM comments, and equity lines of credit. But, like all of you, it's hard for me to support those directions because it makes a lot more sense to me that my folks should downsize and be comfortable in a whole different situation. But I'll keep taking it one step and at time since I respect that my dad needs to make decisions for his own life, even though they affect me, too. And I'll continue researching options for my mom and my sister, confident that the eventual property sale will cover their needs.

Happy holidays to all of you, and thanks once again!

[skeptic]

You and your dad both sound like amazing people.

>What he wants is a way to borrow $100K against the property and not have to pay it until its eventual sale.

My thought is to really listen to your dad on this and respect what he wants and not second-guess it. He doesn't want to move, he doesn't want a loan or gift from you, he doesn't want hired help, etc. He wants to tap liquidity from his own asset.

Please, seriously consider the HELOC or reverse mortgage. I say respectfully and compassionately, I don't quite understand why you have semi-rejected this idea. A reverse mortgage is not a scam any more than an adjustable-rate mortgage is... they are just tools, and it seems that a reverse mortgage, HELOC, or any kind of borrowing against the property it a completely reasonable solution to help your dad live with less stress until your dad decides to leave the property or is forced to.

A HELOC would be perfectly fine if he can get one. The main stumbling block could be too low of income to support the amount, but I can't say that for sure not knowing the actual income. Perhaps it is sufficient. Getting a 50-100k HELOC doesn't require a massive amount of income.

And if the HELOC doesn't work out, go for the reverse mortgage. That won't have any income requirement. Yes, be wary, read carefully, etc. It's just a non-amortizing loan where the balance continues to grow. So if he took out 100k at 5%, and kept the loan for, say, 5 years, he would owe ~128k at the end. Then maybe throw in 3-10k in fees, who knows. It's not the mustachian deal of the century but it seems a small price to pay to allow your dad to live a little longer with dignity, free from financial stress, standing on his own two feet by tapping his own hard-earned equity and not accepting charity.

And if you're still worried about these deals being "shady" or similar, hire a lawyer for a few hours and/or post the note to this forum. We'll pick it apart!

------

Good luck! Such a difficult situation, and your dad must feel so fortunate to have your support. If/when an illness does come and forces him/them to move or get more assistance, I won't see it as a situation of bad planning. Your dad will have simply done his best to live each day according to his values, as best he could, for as long as he could. We can all only hope for as much.

[Iplawyer]

I agree with skeptic.  I've done research on reverse mortgages in Texas.  They are regulated now.  It sounds like a $100K reverse mortgage on this property would give your dad a great deal of peace of mind.  It is Texas and the property is likely community property that your mother would have to sign the note on anyway and so the reverse mortgage would survive your dad. This simple move will take some immediate pressure off of all of you. Texas is a community property state and has very strong laws on protecting the community in terms of mortgages.  If the property is not community property - the reverse mortgage can be structured in Texas to survive your dad's death.  In any case, in Texas, - she has the right to a lifetime estate in the property due to being married to your father. 

Stop worrying about what happens 5 years from now until you figure out now.  Take one step at a time.  Fix your dad's anxiety about the finances - and that may be the key to working on the next issues.  While I too agree that he should downsize - I'm not him.  He does deserve some say in this.  It could very well be the case that he dwells on the financial aspect of the issue and ignores the rest.  If you solve this - he might be able to focus on the more real issues facing him. I suggest you make a list of the biggest things to work on and try to do them one at a time.  But the second thing is not downsizing.

There is a huge looming issue that you haven't even discussed.  If your mother is suffering from dementia and your dad has not made a will that leaves his half of everything in a trust - she could easily be taken advantage of by anyone.  There are men and women that prey on widows and widowers - and could easily manipulate control over your mother's estate.  If your mother is not too far gone - the easiest thing to do right now is get everything into a trust.  It is tricky in Texas because of community property and a spouse's right to property.  If all of that property is community property - your dad can only pass his half in a will.  He cannot will your mother's half to anyone.  That is why if your mother is still lucid - going and taking care of everything now would be the very best thing.  She will come to a point where a lawyer will recognize she's not competent to sign a will or a trust document.  If she's not there - get this taken care of immediately. You need to go to a good estate lawyer who can do this right.  If you need one - I've got suggestions in Austin.

I am not a property or wills and estates lawyer, although I did ace those subjects in law school, so I am not giving you legal advice.  But if I were in your shoes the two things I would do before leaving your parents this trip is to get the reverse mortgage taken care of and get a solid estate plan in place with a lawyer so that if your dad passes away tomorrow - somebody is taking care of the money and estate other than your mother and sister so that they both can have a stable future. I would also go online immediately and get the property taxes frozen.  It is an easy form.

As for your sister - if she hasn't worked in the last few years she won't qualify for disability.  If she has worked enough quarters - she may qualify for social security when she is old enough.  She's not there yet.  And she likely does qualify for some assistance - but since your dad is not supportive of taking it right now - you'll have to wait to go down that road until he is gone. 

I think then you can have some space yourself, after solving your dad's anxiety, to research options for your mother and sister from anywhere using the internet.  There are also special eldercare consultants that can help.  But you are not going to be able to push your father into any of these until he is ready. What would be perfect is a staged assisted living arrangement where they would start out in a pretty independent apartment and then more up to more and more care as needed.  Your dad just isn't there and your sister would need a solution in that case too.

In any case - my suggestion is this list:

- solve your dad's anxiety with a good reverse mortgage
- get an estate plan in place
- freeze property tax increases

When these things are done - make the next list of 3 more important things that have to get done.  Then do those 3  - and repeat. 

Part of your issue right now is trying to solve everything.  You can't.  But you are likely able to solve 1 discrete issue at a time.

Merry Christmas!

[KCalla]

 I have to support, wholeheartedly, the priority of getting the legal documents  that he created a few years ago, reviewed. Be sure that they need current needs. Also have them looked at in terms of various possibilities. We have had to go through this in the last few years .    What a difficult, difficult situation we've had on  my husband's side of the family. My mother, on the other hand, has begun strategically managing her remaining assets and decided to downsize and move into independent living to avoid the mess she has seen us go through on the other side  family.  She chose, with everyone's help, a senior community that has continuity of care to all levels as her needs change.What an incredible lack of love!   Still, the process is hard.
Know that you are certainly not alone facing these issues, as you can see from the boards. And as pointed out,  you can only do so much.  My relatively vigorous father in law provided all caregiving as my mother in law declined and seemed to feel that it was necessary to believe he could do so forever. I think that boxing himself into denial and not taking concrete steps was some part of getting through his days successfully. Like a self affirmation of his ability to provide, maybe.  We were frustrated because he was, otherwise, a planner and a practical and smart man.  Perhaps, as pointed out, the cognitive decline of aging played some role. He died unexpectedly after a brief respiratory illness.
My husband has spent large parts of the last three years of his own life (so me too, to a lesser extent) dealing with the aftermath.   
You may not be able to change the course they are on.  Their lives/decisions, but unfortunately the reality is that you will bear the collateral damage.  Be sure that all of the legal/financial documents are in place so you can have the tools to dig out from any train wreck.  Wills, powers of attorney, beneficiary information on insurance and bank accounts, investments, lists of phone numbers/addresses/account numbers you will need to keep things going (utilities, bills, rpair companies, vendor supplies, etc.). For all three of them.  Consider various scenarios, e.g. Even if your father lives the longest, what if he needs to be an inpatient for a post op rehab for a month at some point, etc.  How can a contractual commitment to a barn venue renter be met if your father is briefly incapacitated at a barn rented time (who do you need contact info for to handle it on his behalf from a distance?).  That kind of scenario brainstorming and planning with him is critical and he can share his knowledge/skills while you note it all for a paper copy to keep there and written/computer copies for your possible use if needed.   Tracking down who to call with what info is a lot more difficult that the "phone call to fix the problem" itself. 
Do what you can. That's all you can do. It'll all be hard, even with the best of plans.  But we really, really appreciate what my Mom is doing.  We are also working on ours...almost done.

[Cassie]

YOur sister would qualify for SSI which is for poor people that can't work and don't qualify for SSDI. She should apply now since the process can take up to 2 years.  Once she obtains that she would qualify for other services. For example: low income housing, food stamps, medical, etc.  I think it is unfair of your Dad to want to stay where he is. He could drop dead tomorrow. My parents were proactive in planning and we are doing the same. No way do I want to stick my kids with a bunch of problems.  I am really sorry for your situation but I would try to talk some sense into your Dad. Hugs:))

[Sofa King]

It sounds like your dad doesn't really want your help in figuring out what to do. What it sounds like is he wants for things to stay the same and not have to make any real changes.

In other words, he's deeply in denial about the entire situation and is not going to welcome any rational/logical arguments that would make the most sense - like selling the too large, expensive property that is now losing money, and get his wife into assisted living and the daughter into assistance programs so she can be taken care of without him being the provider.

The reality is that he's 93 years old. He may live another 5 years with no health issues, or he may go any time. But he is technically living on borrowed time at this point, his wife is suffering from dementia and relies completely on him, and his daughter is unable to support herself without him. The facts are the following:

1. Once he's gone, both his wife and daughter will require someone to step in and take care of them both. This will be you.

2. By not making arrangements NOW, he's leaving all of this to be your headache to deal with when he dies, which could be any time really, on top of detangling his estate and property messes. This is truly awful.

3. He is deliberately refusing to see the mess he's going to leave you with. He shoots down all the good moves he could be making NOW to fix the situation because of pride/stubborness/denial that he is going to die sooner rather than later. This is also awful.

4. If he truly was trying to be a good, responsible parent/spouse, he would be taking steps to make sure his daughter was on assistance and started laying the groundwork or her to be alone without his support. Same for his wife. He doesn't seem to get that he isn't going to be around forever, and by not taking care of things now and transitioning them both into care programs, he's doing them both (and you) a huge disservice. When something does happen to him, if they were already comfortably settled into a new routine, it would lessen so much stress and heartache on everyone that is left behind.

Now whether you can even talk to him about this stuff? That's the real question. And whether he'd actually really listen? Another hard one...

I concur.

Do nothing and the eventually decisions on change will be made out of necessity. No escaping that.   Better to make those decisions while in a position of not HAVING to.  Sounds like you have done all you can at this point. I would now make a plan for when the shit hits the fan (and it will). I have been there.

[minima]

That's a good idea, Ihamo, about talking to someone who's a specialist in elder care. In fact, I have a cousin who has done quite a bit of work in that area and she might be a good resource. I'm sorry you're dealing with your MIL's Parkinsons. I know that can be particularly difficult--and it sounds like the results are much like what my mom manifests.

skeptic, I appreciate your kind words- and I like your approach not to second-guess my dad on what he wants. And I appreciate your advice on the reverse mortgage and HELOC-- I think my reticence is that much of what I've read about the reverse mortgage makes it sound usurious, so until participating in the MMM forum I haven't given it much of a chance. The HELOC has always made some sense to me. When I talked with my dad tonight about the likely cost of the reverse mortgage, he responded with the shocked look of a natural Mustachian in response to a big expense. So he's opening his mind to seeing a financial advisor, being open to new approaches and ddmesser, today he said he thought a trust was a good idea both for my mom and for him.

And skeptic, I love your suggestion of having the MMM folks pick apart a loan agreement, and my dad loved that, too-- But we'd still hire a lawyer who works in finance, ddmesser, as you suggest, and I appreciate your offer of suggestions for someone in Austin. And clearly you have a good grasp of wills and trusts despite your work in another legal area.

My dad has a good start on an estate plan, which would have to be updated, of course, with the changes he makes regarding a mortgage. I'm the executor on the will and I would administrate whatever trust would be needed so it's helpful that I'm able to be as involved as I am at this point. Thanks, ddmesser, for your careful advice-- and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too!

KCalla, your assessment of your father-in-law's need to help your mother-in-law with caregiving is much the same as my dad's feeling that he is able to do something useful and that he's still strong and capable--and I have to say that it amazes me to see him climbing up and down long flights of stairs, hauling heavy lawn-sized trash cans of stuff from the parties (even though his contracts include clauses saying the renters have to take trash to the dumpsters), and moving heavy tables around the rental venue, even if he has to pull them. I can't seem to work fast enough to get it all done before he can do a good part of it himself. But like MMM points out so often and I'm sure is a part of the mantra of MMM blog followers and forum members, we appreciate the positive power of good hard work.

Also, your good common sense about determining potential outcomes in different case scenarios make sense for planning and revision to his current documents. He keeps a very detailed and carefully developed list of contacts, locations for important papers, and all info that I'd need to step in and help with potential health problems, and of course to manage his commitments , when needed. I've met with his lawyer and have gone over the papers and have asked my own questions. There will be more of that to come, as it sounds like you've experienced. It takes a lot of time and I'm only here for another few days-- But this is a good start for one visit, made more effective with MMM forum advice.

Best wishes, KCalla in your own process-- I hope it all goes as well as possible!

Thanks for the info about the SSI for my sister, Cassie-- I'll add that to my research list and find out how to get that started.

And Sofa King, you, and others are right that the eventual fallout is inevitable and getting on top of it all sooner than later is much better. With help from the forum I feel like we've got a more solid basis for getting things in order and now it's just time to get heads-down, meet with advisors, and take new steps.

I can't thank all of you enough for your generous help. It's great to be in touch with smart, common-sense people.

Happy New Year to all!

[KBecks]

I'll just share some things from my own life and experience and maybe they will be useful.   Best wishes for everything going forward!

First off, your dad sounds like a really cool guy, and how wonderful that your mom and dad are still with you at their advanced ages.   Enjoy them as much as you can while they are still here with you, and be kind and caring.  Do your best to love them and serve them in their old age.  It is not easy.  Take care of yourself too.  It is a balancing act.

I lost my dad to a  major heart attack that he had a couple months after my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimers.  I want to just say that dementia is stressful on caregivers.  Your mom and dad deserve help with her health issues  It does sound like your Dad is not ready to leave his beautiful farm property.  Those feelings are OK and he probably needs to acknowledge and celebrate how much he loves the place and all the wonderful memories your family has there.  He may go through a very normal grieving process with this property if/when he leaves it.

Does your sister live with them?  I would guess that he feels that he cannot move to a senior facility with a 66 year old daughter in tow, or maybe he can.  Start to research these kinds of things remotely and talk to people.  See if anyone has any interesting solutions.

In terms of getting rid of things, if he is ready for that, you may want to do an auction.   You do need to plan several visits to your mom and dad to help them, no matter what.  They are of the age where they are going to need support and checking in on.  Perhaps you can get there for an extended visit each summer. These are also opportunities for you to help console your mom and dad and hopefully get major work projects done, such as prepping for and supervising an auction.  There are estate sale companies that do this stuff all the time and can give your family a lot of help.  My 80+ year old neighbors had an estate sale when they were moving to a senior apartment and my husband's grandparents had a similar auction for their farm when they downsized to an apartment.  Perhaps this is the first step, helping free your dad of a lot of the unused "stuff" so he can focus on family and the more important things more clearly.  Research that and see if you can get some recommendations.  This can also be emotional for your mom and dad if they have any hoarding tendencies but it sounds like he is ready to let go and that these things may be a burden and holding them back.  An auction or estate sale is not about getting a lot of money but it gives some money and hopefully a lot of help in reducing the household items very efficiently. I think you must supervise such an event and vet the people running it to help assure that the organizers remain honest.

For the business, does he want to keep running it or is it wearing him out?  I would suggest to him that he take his time to care for himself and to care for mom.  But, it is very important that if he is a caregiver that he has an escape and he can get some alone time away from her.  The barn and property may be his release. 

I want to go back and read your original post again then I'll write more.

[KBecks]

So it sounds like your sister lives on-property in the log cabin.  Where do your parents live?  On this same site or offsite?

A big question is:  what are the bills coming in that your dad is taking care of?   

Also, what are your sister's needs?   It sounds as if she is able to live independently and take care of her own cooking, grocery shopping, driving, etc??

I would ask your dad if he is willing to show you the finances so you have a clear understanding of their assets and liabilities and what they are working with, and how much pressure they are under.  What do they own?  What do they owe? Is the property(ies) paid for?   

Some other options may be to get a home equity loan or to hire a part time property manager / cleaner / caretaker / marketing person for the barn, if the barn is in good enough shape to continue to bring in income.  Perhaps there is something creative you can do to use the property but leave your sister in place.   I don't see why your dad is concerned about parking near the house when he has hosted events there before.  What is different if someone else is running it? 

It is hard to give any advice without knowing their entire financial picture.  How is your sister fitting into the puzzle?  Since she stands to lose her home if the property is sold, I would think she is pressuring your Dad to keep it also.

Thinking of you. 

[minima]

Thanks so much, KBecks. I'm grateful every day that I still have my parents and that they're such nice people to be around. I know how lucky I am for that, so your advice hits the nail on the head. I'm so sorry to know about your own situation. It had to be devastating to lose your dad and then face an Alzheimers diagnosis regarding your mom, and in such close a time frame. I hope the best for you as I know the grieving process must be difficult.

To answer your questions, my sister lives on the property with folks (and is actually 59), and in some ways can be a help, but the details of her problems are really complex and include a battle with Cushings Syndrome, among other issues. She's not pressuring them to stay, but it would be difficult to get her set up in a way that would work well and be affordable. And she can be emotional rather than rational, and often unreasonable. This is a whole other can of worms for a whole different forum, although I do understand that we can't ignore the financial implications of helping her. My dad feels like once he and my mom are gone his estate will provide enough to care for her and I can help at least to get her set up and off to a good start. Then she'd have to make decisions of her own if she rejected my help. Sometimes that's all that can be done.

And actually, an auction and dealing with their 60 years of stuff is a good part of what my dad doesn't want to deal with. My mom isn't exactly a hoarder but having come from a background of true poverty during the depression (not the usual depression poverty like my dad experienced), she's really insecure about getting rid of anything and it would be devastating to her if they had an auction.

My dad actually enjoys the business since it's not such a frequent commitment that it's overwhelming, and it's also good for my mom because she loves talking with the people who rent the barn and playing with their kids. In fact, we have a photo in the living room of my mom getting a hug from one of a former renter's daughters. The renter had stopped by one day to bring it to her and visit. So in the overall, the business is really a good thing for both of them and I think it helps to keep them young both physically and mentally.

The bills are the usual for electric, phone, food, insurance. We're going through each one now step-by-step, trying to see how to cut costs and minimize the charges. My dad has been doing this all along and now we're starting to do this together.

The problem with the parking and people near the house would only develop if he switched to long-term rentals. Right now there are people on the property only for the 2 days involved with renting the venue for a wedding/reception/party. The property is a home rather than business in the overall and they rent the one building, usually on a Sat or Sun and open it so people can decorate the day before. It's intrusive on those days, but not bad, and the people who rent and generally really nice to work with and are respectful of the property and my parents during their use of it. Hiring someone to manage it would cost more than the income would provide, so that turns out not to be a good solution. My dad has hired some temporary help in the past but decided it, too, cost too much to continue. They have a website and are connected with the Chamber of Commerce and for years have really booked on the basis of word of mouth, so the place is well-known. And we've even had people from LA and out East who have rented the venue, so that part, I think is pretty well covered. And they really don't want to go too commercial with things because it's a personal kind of place and also they want to have some sense of accountability from the people who rent from them. Like I noted, the great majority of people who have rented from them over the years have been really nice people.

I've learned quite a bit from the MMM forum and I so appreciate the advice and brainstorming from all of you. We've got meetings booked this week to take the next steps and I think we're headed in the right direction, though it's going to be a tedious process.

KBecks, I feel for you, too, and wish the best for you and your mom. Keep hanging in there--

Thanks so much, again, to all of you--

[minima]

Happy New Year, Mustachians!

I'm writing simply to thank all of you who responded to my request for advice and to update you on our progress. My dad, mom, and I met with their lawyer, got the paperwork in order to protect their finances for now and for me to manage for them in the future, and got recommendations for financial advisors in the area. In addition to those measures, my dad will be meeting with an additional USAA advisor this coming week.

My folks have acknowledged the need to make plans for future developments and to deal with my sister's issues, which I'm researching now. As many of you have noted, this is only the beginning in managing their financial and lifestyle needs, but we're headed in the right direction.

Thanks so much to all of you for your support and help with my request for advice. Wishing the best for all of you in managing your own difficult family issues and in continuing to increase your stache!

[Secretly Saving]

Happy New Year, Mustachians!

I'm writing simply to thank all of you who responded to my request for advice and to update you on our progress. My dad, mom, and I met with their lawyer, got the paperwork in order to protect their finances for now and for me to manage for them in the future, and got recommendations for financial advisors in the area. In addition to those measures, my dad will be meeting with an additional USAA advisor this coming week.

My folks have acknowledged the need to make plans for future developments and to deal with my sister's issues, which I'm researching now. As many of you have noted, this is only the beginning in managing their financial and lifestyle needs, but we're headed in the right direction.

Thanks so much to all of you for your support and help with my request for advice. Wishing the best for all of you in managing your own difficult family issues and in continuing to increase your stache!

What a fabulous update.  It sounds like things will be falling into place.  Congratulations!