Author Topic: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal  (Read 5203 times)

FrugalFan

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Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« on: October 01, 2015, 09:49:29 AM »
I think having a specific goal for FI or FIRE would be motivating and could help with discussions with my husband in terms of setting timelines to achieve that goal. But I have several options and I don't know how to choose (I realize this is actually a very good position to be in). I discovered MMM a few months and it has been a revelation! Husband is very supportive in terms of making some changes but also understandably still wants some of the luxuries our salaries can afford. And we both want to keep traveling so I am trying to find ways to reduce the cost instead of cutting down on our travels. I have recently returned to work after two nearly back-to-back periods of parental leave, so we now have too very young kids at home and a lot of my priorities have changed.

Our current situation is as follows. We both have the same job. My husband loves his job and does not see himself retiring anytime before 55 (and I suspect would only want to go part time at that point rather than retiring outright). I think it is generally an amazing job but there are parts of it I definitely don't like. And of course I would love to spend more time with my kids. Through a lot of number crunching, I have realized that there are many possibilities. At the riskiest end of the spectrum, I could stop working right now. Assuming everything goes well, it would require a bit of belt tightening, but not much, and would probably mean that we would need to draw down more than 4% for 3-4 years after DH retires, if he retires at 55, until the mortgage is paid off and the kids are off to university. That would be balanced out by the fact that we would both start receiving Canada Pension Plan benefits at 60, and potentially Old Age Security at 65. If DH works part time after 55, then we can withdraw way less than 4% until he stops working outright. My concern with this option is that it leaves me or us with little security should I ever have to fend for myself or if something prevented DH from working (I've read lots of stories about professional women becoming stay at home moms and then ending up in financial dire straits if the marriage falls apart).

At the other end of the spectrum, if we both work until 55, we can retire with sweet pensions that meet all of our needs without dipping into the stash much at all, and probably not at all once we start receiving CPP. This seems like a waste of working years (and time not spent with the kids).

And then, there is everything in between. The longer I work full time, the more financially secure we are.

I also have the option of scaling back to almost any proportion of my work duties, with the option of going back full time if I want. The advantage is that there is a security back-up if life throws us a curve ball. The major downside to this is that it would be a career killer. The system I work in is not set up for this at all and I don't know anyone who has ever taken advantage of this option. It would essentially mean eventually giving up on my favorite (but also most challenging) part of my job. This has a lot of implications, and I would probably lose the respect of some of my colleagues.

Can anyone help me sort these ideas? Has anyone gone down one of these routes with success or regrets?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:21:50 AM by Travelling Biologist »

zephyr911

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2015, 10:20:57 AM »
The fundamental question to ask yourself is, what do you want to do with your time and life energy.

The entire point of FIRE is to give up as little of those things as possible now in exchange for as much as possible of them later. Until you know what you want to do with them... 'tis entirely academic.

Until then, work and save as much as possible. Work till you find yourself fantasizing about doing something else, then use your Stash to do that thing. :)

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2015, 10:28:49 AM »
Good point, zephyr, and that is part of the reason I am struggling I think. I don't have any big plans. But it is hard to make big plans until DH and I both retire. For example, we can't move away somewhere cool, as we are tied here to our jobs, and we can't take long slow trips, which is something that I would love. Aside from those things, more time with the kids, more time to exercise, and more time to just enjoy life would be great. I feel like we are so busy that we have to plan out every minute of every day. I like my job, but not enough that I would do it for free if I didn't need the money.

I feel like I am in a transition period. Discovering MMM gave me some ideas I never knew were possible. Our financial advisor put it this way: we will retire at 65 with great pensions and anything we save will be extra "lifestyle" money for travel, etc. For 10 years I thought this was pretty great and better than what most can expect, and then I discover MMM realize that we could retire a decade or more earlier (and this was a slow realization, the Simple Math post wasn't enough at first because our retirement expenses will be lower, and because I've found more ways to save with time). Having kids really changed my perspective on what was important in life. I have just recently gone back to work after a lot of time at home. I think I just need to forge on, but I keep obsessing over numbers and feeling impatient. I wish I could just set a goal and then forget it.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:44:52 AM by Travelling Biologist »

norabird

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2015, 10:34:22 AM »
How old are you now? I would opt to scaling back to part time if you aren't wedded to the career path (which you don't seem to be).

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2015, 10:44:14 AM »
I'm 38. You are right, I am no longer wedded to a career path, but giving that up seems like a big step.

norabird

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2015, 11:17:32 AM »
It is less of a risk than dropping out entirely, however (in the case of an issue where Dh can't work). So it might be a happy medium to start with--and perhaps you can ramp back up to FT if needed later, or stop working entirely. It's the option with the most flexibility to keep options open in the future, while letting you have more time for your kids, to exercise, to cook etc.

Retired To Win

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 01:00:17 PM »
I'm 38. You are right, I am no longer wedded to a career path, but giving that up seems like a big step.

So, at the "riskiest" end of your FI spectrum, you could leave your job now at the age of 38.  At the "safer" end of your FI spectrum, you could leave your job at 55 with "a sweet pension."  The time difference between the 2 options is 17 years... which is almost half of your life so far and 20% of your entire life if you live to be 85.  How does it feel to look at it that way; how does it feel to internalize waiting 17 years to FIRE when you are talking about it now?  Seventeen years ago you were 21; how long does that stretch of time feel like to you?

How much time taken from your life is that "sweet" pension worth?  Would it feel a whole lot better if you thought you "only" had to wait another 5 years to FIRE?  Maybe your finances could become that much better in that time to make it feel safe.  (??)

Good luck.

zephyr911

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 01:16:54 PM »
I'm 38. You are right, I am no longer wedded to a career path, but giving that up seems like a big step.
I'm 37, and if I could do it now, I would. But my FT job is less compromising. I'm planning a massive one-year push and then quitting - or maybe a leave of absence - while I explore making ends meet with the part-time work I have now (side jobs). You say you can go back if it doesn't work out - this seems like a no-brainer. Your kids will only be young once.

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 01:36:53 PM »
What I would recommend is figure out what your current annual expenses are, and how much you can save each year at your current salaries. With this figured out, how long would you and DH both need to continue working full time until hitting complete FI - meaning neither of you would need to work. It may not be the full 17 years, maybe it's 10 years or something. Once you have that figured out, then do it again using a lower annual expense figure that you think you could reasonable live within and still enjoy life. I think knowing these two things will help you see more options and help you determine which budget cuts are worth reaching FI sooner. I do agree with you that you need to be careful that if something should happen to DH or your marriage, that you won't be left with no career and not enough $. I've seen that happen to too many people.

okits

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 02:01:46 PM »
Since you have recently returned to work after two parental leaves, don't put too much pressure on yourself to get it all figured out now. You are still adjusting and finding your new normal.  Take some time to get back in the swing of things and to figure out what your family really needs.

You said going part time would kill your career. Is that an irreversible move (could you revive your career by returning full time, permanently?)

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2015, 02:05:35 PM »
I'm 38. You are right, I am no longer wedded to a career path, but giving that up seems like a big step.

So, at the "riskiest" end of your FI spectrum, you could leave your job now at the age of 38.  At the "safer" end of your FI spectrum, you could leave your job at 55 with "a sweet pension."  The time difference between the 2 options is 17 years... which is almost half of your life so far and 20% of your entire life if you live to be 85.  How does it feel to look at it that way; how does it feel to internalize waiting 17 years to FIRE when you are talking about it now?  Seventeen years ago you were 21; how long does that stretch of time feel like to you?

How much time taken from your life is that "sweet" pension worth?  Would it feel a whole lot better if you thought you "only" had to wait another 5 years to FIRE?  Maybe your finances could become that much better in that time to make it feel safe.  (??)

Good luck.

Yeah, that's why 55 is probably no longer on my radar. But if I stop working now, I'm not FI. I'm just living off my husband's income. A hard pill to swallow and risky for the reasons I mention above. I'm already committed to staying full time until at least next summer (need to provide 180 days notice at the beginning of a semester to drop down to part time). I think I will give it that time to readjust to life at work, and then probably cut back on a trial basis to see how it goes. 

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »
I'm 38. You are right, I am no longer wedded to a career path, but giving that up seems like a big step.
I'm 37, and if I could do it now, I would. But my FT job is less compromising. I'm planning a massive one-year push and then quitting - or maybe a leave of absence - while I explore making ends meet with the part-time work I have now (side jobs). You say you can go back if it doesn't work out - this seems like a no-brainer. Your kids will only be young once.

True! In fact my oldest is already starting junior kindergarten next September.

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2015, 02:08:28 PM »
What I would recommend is figure out what your current annual expenses are, and how much you can save each year at your current salaries. With this figured out, how long would you and DH both need to continue working full time until hitting complete FI - meaning neither of you would need to work. It may not be the full 17 years, maybe it's 10 years or something. Once you have that figured out, then do it again using a lower annual expense figure that you think you could reasonable live within and still enjoy life. I think knowing these two things will help you see more options and help you determine which budget cuts are worth reaching FI sooner. I do agree with you that you need to be careful that if something should happen to DH or your marriage, that you won't be left with no career and not enough $. I've seen that happen to too many people.

Yes, that number is about 9-10 years. He doesn't want to retire then, but you are right, I should be looking at that as my maximum time left to work if I continue full time.

FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2015, 02:10:53 PM »
Since you have recently returned to work after two parental leaves, don't put too much pressure on yourself to get it all figured out now. You are still adjusting and finding your new normal.  Take some time to get back in the swing of things and to figure out what your family really needs.

You said going part time would kill your career. Is that an irreversible move (could you revive your career by returning full time, permanently?)

Thanks, I am definitely still adjusting and trying to find our new normal. I used to work crazy hours before we had kids. Now I feel just as busy even though it's not all work anymore.

I do think it is irreversible because it relies on obtaining grant funding which is based on previous productivity. However, I don't think I would lose the job entirely, just the emphasis on research (which oddly enough has both the best parts and the worst parts).

ShortInSeattle

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2015, 02:36:35 PM »
How would your husband feel if you quit working? Putting myself in his shoes, being a sole breadwinner sounds like a stressful proposition.






FrugalFan

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2015, 06:45:49 PM »
How would your husband feel if you quit working? Putting myself in his shoes, being a sole breadwinner sounds like a stressful proposition.

He is actually very supportive. Before we had kids, I had some very stressful periods at work and he was the one encouraging me to make some big changes. He loves his job so I don't think it would be added stress for him, though definitely added responsibility (and I don't think I'm comfortable stopping work altogether yet for the reasons I mentioned above). If I cut back though, his non-working time would be less busy because I could take over many of the errands we now share during evenings and weekends.

Landlord2015

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Re: Having trouble setting a FI/FIRE goal
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2015, 08:33:00 AM »
Well I work only part time nowadays(iT career NOT going good) but to my big surprise
marketing/sales part time has been nice thank good my salary is not based on how much I sell only I hate those kind of jobs there must be always a base salary.

Marketing/Sales has gone surprisingly good perhaps I have more talent for that then IT? I have ex team mates who have been fired due to lack of results(sales) but that does not seem to be problem with me though I am NOT a miracle so I can not sell icecream well in North Pole climate and neither I am bestselling super seller in the team but good enough!

Anyway being landlord for 3 apartments and now thinking of either buy a 4th investment apartment(so I rent 4 apartments to other people) or MAYBE become entrepreneur but IF I start my own firm then not during 2015 at least and I want to take a course in entrepreneurship.

However my point being it feels for me as a landlord and part time job that I have like 2 part time jobs.

In order to retire more I CAN NOT have a part time job 20+ hours...
Financial freedom yeah I want it but I still see that as in future years...

My current full debt including all debts i.e mortgage etc...is little over 170 000 euro and I am not a millionaire, but generally Europe is NOT blessed with low tax as USA.
My savings after tax payback in December will be> 20 000 euro at least to invest on something... this in an addition that my debt does go down effectively not some lame 30 year loans for me.

Problem for me is that while I have low living costs I don't live on rent myself and neither do I use/own a car that I don't want to start selling my little lol "empire" of apartments... it makes me proud that I am landlord.

It sucks to say "I have only part time job" but socially if I say to my friends I have part time job and rent 3(soon 4 I suspect) I do see much more respect to that comment!

Therefore it is pride that many do not want to retire early at least if they know that they can not retire as millionaires.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 02:39:22 PM by Landlord2015 »