Author Topic: Have you figured your 50/30/20?  (Read 3105 times)

ontheway2

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Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« on: March 06, 2020, 08:52:54 AM »
I enjoy reading case studies, sample budgets, spend allocation recommendations, etc and stumbled upon the 50/30/20 rule awhile back saying one should spend 50% of their income on needs, 30% on wants, and save 20%. As a mustachian, I am striving for more than 20% save and was curious what my numbers were. Has anyone else figured theirs? Using net income and reimbursements plus retirement contributions, I was surprised to see I was right at 50/30/20 but with 50% save, 30% needs, 20% wants based on my priorities. Anyone else care to share their numbers?

Edit: one thing of note, I categorized sinking fund contributions based on the purpose and not as saving. i.e. home maintenance is a need, home improvement is a want, car maintenance is a need, etc
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 08:54:57 AM by ontheway2 »

Zikoris

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2020, 09:06:20 AM »
We're normally something like 65% savings 20% needs 15% wants.

Tass

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2020, 09:16:43 AM »
I'm pretty comfortably at 50/40/10: 50% save, 40% spend, 10% donate.

Breaking that down further... looks like I'm at 50% save, 30% needs, 10% wants, 10% donate.

Might also be interesting to note your wants:needs ratio. Mine is 1:3. 25% of my spending is on wants.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 09:20:15 AM by Tass »

Staunch Aim

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2020, 09:18:13 AM »
These would be after-tax dollars, right?  Assuming that then: my rule, rounded to the nearest 5, would be the 20/5/75 rule. These levels have worked well for me.

wageslave23

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2020, 09:35:17 AM »
70% savings, 25% needs, 5% wants.  Just curious what are you guys considering "wants".  I can't imagine anything more than 10% wants.  If your take home pay is $50k, that's $400/mo on wants - seems pretty luxurious to me.  I would think $200 on current month eating out/entertainment, $100 sinking fund for travel, and $100 towards a hobby sounds reasonable on $50k.  Any thoughts?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2020, 09:38:40 AM »
70% savings, 25% needs, 5% wants.

This is my aim

Zikoris

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2020, 10:03:40 AM »
70% savings, 25% needs, 5% wants.  Just curious what are you guys considering "wants".  I can't imagine anything more than 10% wants.  If your take home pay is $50k, that's $400/mo on wants - seems pretty luxurious to me.  I would think $200 on current month eating out/entertainment, $100 sinking fund for travel, and $100 towards a hobby sounds reasonable on $50k.  Any thoughts?

My "wants" category is mostly overseas travel, plus a small amount of entertainment spending, as well as the "shopping" category (which is actually mostly needs like basic clothing, kitchen things, etc, but I'm too lazy to split out). I agree 15% is a large amount, a little over $1,000/month in our case.

partgypsy

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2020, 10:03:57 AM »
This is where it comes from.  And it's supposed to be after tax income https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/022916/what-502030-budget-rule.asp

I had calculated this a long time ago and was at 55% needs. Maybe if I can have 1 normal year I will calculate it again, but for past few years needs have def been above 50%.

GuitarStv

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2020, 10:07:35 AM »
How do you break it up if one of your wants is to save money?

ixtap

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2020, 10:19:42 AM »
Our gross is ~50 savings/ 25 spending / 25 taxes.

Of that 25 spending, 1/3 is housing, 1/6 is food, so I guess we are about 50/50 need to want.

That would come to 16/16/66?

wageslave23

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2020, 10:25:34 AM »
70% savings, 25% needs, 5% wants.  Just curious what are you guys considering "wants".  I can't imagine anything more than 10% wants.  If your take home pay is $50k, that's $400/mo on wants - seems pretty luxurious to me.  I would think $200 on current month eating out/entertainment, $100 sinking fund for travel, and $100 towards a hobby sounds reasonable on $50k.  Any thoughts?

My "wants" category is mostly overseas travel, plus a small amount of entertainment spending, as well as the "shopping" category (which is actually mostly needs like basic clothing, kitchen things, etc, but I'm too lazy to split out). I agree 15% is a large amount, a little over $1,000/month in our case.

You guys obviously have your finances in order.  But to recommend that the average family spend 30% on wants??  That's crazy!  Again, assuming $50k take home, that's $15k/yr or $1000+/mo on "wants".  I keep hearing how the middle class is struggling, well articles giving advice like this is why.

partgypsy

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2020, 10:29:47 AM »
Another way of framing "wants" is any non-allocated/dedicated spending. For example when I have seen people do this in real life, they say for a family that spend 600 on grocery, 400 is considered "need" and 200 is considered discretionary or 'wants". Everyone is going to be different but it is actually quite easy to spend 30% on wants, because it is essentially any non-recurring OR recurring bills that are not necessary for human survival.

It's easy to not be completely "honest" with these numbers. But then if you are throwing a bunch of stuff in "needs" that is not really needs, it will blow up that category. It is a better rule of thumb to have a gut check whether your "needs" are so high, you have nothing left over to save or for discretionary spending.
In her book when that happens, she has people look at things like their rent, mortgage, car, etc to see what is going on with the budget.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 10:32:12 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2020, 10:34:08 AM »
Right now I am at, after tax, about 85% savings and 15% spending.  Why would I want something I don't need?

Tass

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2020, 10:40:17 AM »
Just curious what are you guys considering "wants".  I can't imagine anything more than 10% wants.  If your take home pay is $50k, that's $400/mo on wants - seems pretty luxurious to me.  I would think $200 on current month eating out/entertainment, $100 sinking fund for travel, and $100 towards a hobby sounds reasonable on $50k.  Any thoughts?

Want categories, largest to smallest in 2019: travel, dining out, entertainment, education, gifts, instrument, misc.

About $3500 total, under $300/month. I'm whittling down my dining out this year, and my travel will likely cost less due to travel hacking, but I don't regret any of that spending.

diapasoun

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2020, 10:43:20 AM »
For 2019:

Savings: 46%
Necessities (housing, groceries, student loans, utilities, car, medical, vet): 40%
Discretionaries (eating out, charity, entertainment, gym, misc spending): 14%

Our discretionaries are high primarily because I am a self-admitted restaurant fiend (working on it) and charity is important to me.




partgypsy

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2020, 11:30:32 AM »
For 2019:

Savings: 46%
Necessities (housing, groceries, student loans, utilities, car, medical, vet): 40%
Discretionaries (eating out, charity, entertainment, gym, misc spending): 14%

Our discretionaries are high primarily because I am a self-admitted restaurant fiend (working on it) and charity is important to me.

you are doing awesome!

ontheway2

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2020, 11:35:31 AM »
70% savings, 25% needs, 5% wants.  Just curious what are you guys considering "wants".  I can't imagine anything more than 10% wants.  If your take home pay is $50k, that's $400/mo on wants - seems pretty luxurious to me.  I would think $200 on current month eating out/entertainment, $100 sinking fund for travel, and $100 towards a hobby sounds reasonable on $50k.  Any thoughts?

My wants include gym, a phone payment (not service) although very low cost, allowance for the kids, 13% of our food budget, some of our clothing budget, a housecleaner (big want), home improvement sinking fund, gifts, travel (another big want), among some others
I want to move 5-10% of wants to save, but I'm not yet ready to make the sacrifices that come with it

Edit: Also to add I'm single income with two kids
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 11:47:17 AM by ontheway2 »

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2020, 12:57:05 AM »
I save 70
I spend 20 on needs
10 on wants

My eventual goal is to get to about 75/15/10

Firehazard

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2020, 07:48:44 AM »
Post-FIRE, with part time employment, about 11 hours per week:

Needs  57%
Wants  19%
Savings  23%

Needs/Wants could be slightly skewed.  Included in Needs are wine and beer purchased while grocery shopping, and other non-essentials like snacks and desserts and probably a lot more fresh produce than I actually need.  Also included in Needs are all costs associated with my three pets.  I consider pet expenses a need, though, since they have needs and I've adopted them as part of my family for as long as they live.  Included in Wants are 100% of my personal spending, which includes things like car repairs, clothing, personal care items, etc.

I used some of my discretionary 'Wants' spending over the past year to build a raised bed square foot vegetable garden, so hopefully that will result in a reduction of the Needs spending.  It will be interesting to see how much the grocery bill will come down once it's planted and the harvest starts rolling in this year.  I feel like we spend a large portion of our food budget on fresh vegetables, and we live in an area with a long growing season, so it just makes sense to me to grow some food.  I planted a few dozen heads of lettuce in late fall as an experiment (wondered if lettuce could grow in winter here), and it went pretty well.  The garden is in full sun all summer but pretty shady in the winter, so it grew slowly, but still in the end we had several weeks worth of cheap organic lettuce for very little effort. A pack of about 500 seeds cost about the same amount as a single head of grocery store lettuce.  It was fun shopping for lettuce in the backyard at dinner time!

Retireatee1

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2020, 08:13:48 AM »
For my accumulation phase, I differentiate between spending and savings (55/45).  That savings rate is high enough that I don't have to wade into the muck of needs versus wants.

For my distribution phase, I have no savings rate and do differentiate between needs and wants.  This ratio for planning purposes is approximately 75/25.  This "wants" bucket is padded enough that it can be an emergency fund when needed instead.

Metalcat

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2020, 09:34:19 AM »
I'm a bit of a broken record, like always, but really, this all comes down to the individual.

A higher or lower percentage of spending on "wants" really isn't necessarily better or worse.

Someone may have a low "wants" percentage just because their fixed "needs" expenses are astronomically high, like someone who lives in an HCOL area, who has special needs kids, and is supporting their aged parents.

Meanwhile, someone whose core spending is only 12K/year may spend at least that or more on "wants" like travel.

It's all relative. Each person/family needs to figure out what's right for them. There are no rules. These so called "rules" are just imaginary numbers for people who haven't put in the effort to figure out what they actually want their own lives to look like.


TomTX

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2020, 11:59:56 AM »
Let's see... expected for this year...

Gross salary: $97k
Pension contribution: $9.2k
SS/Medicare: $7.4k
IRA: $6k
401k: $19.5k
457 $19.5k

So, that leaves $35.4k
Mortgage, insurance $9.8k
Property tax $6.5k

So, that leaves $19.1k. I probably will waste a lot of it on food, utilities and transportation.... although I'm guessing I'll clear $3-4k in various signup bonuses.

SwordGuy

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2020, 01:40:25 PM »
The 50/30/20 budget is actually a very good budget for average folks who want to live a more mainstream kind of lifestyle but also want to be financially secure.   Most folks would be immensely better off by following this budget instead of what they are currently doing.   (Most Mustachians are not in the group that would be financially better off than what they are doing.)

From reading the various comments it was pretty clear that a bunch of folks aren't familiar with this budget.

50% "Needs" - Needs and prior contractual obligations (regardless of how foolish)
30% "Wants" - Stuff you want but don't have to.
20% "Savings" - Savings, investments, pre-payment of debt.

First of all, why these percentages and not some others?

50% "Needs":

 Just had a pay cut or had your hours cut back or your spouse just lost their job?   You can immediately cut your spending in half.    Being able to do that when bad times come around makes a household way more resilient.

20% "Savings":

It takes about 2 to 3 years to build an emergency fund that will cover the "Needs" for a year.   How many families in this country are saving at such a prodigious rate?  (Not many.)   How many have savings that could cover their "needs" for 3 months, much less a year?   It may seem low by our standards, but by normal American standards this is an amazing savings rate.

30% "Wants":

At a 30% fun money rate, they can still "fit in" with their peer group.   That's really important to a lot of people and is a real deal-breaker for a lot of people when it comes to Mustachian-style savings.

Examples:

I put $300 into my 401K.   That's savings.

My medicine, necessary for my health, costs $100 a month.  That's needs.

My wife's makeup, unnecessary for her employment and unneeded to hide some injury from the world, is a want.   My friend, who is a model, would consider that makeup expense a need, and rightly so.

I bought a reasonably sized and priced house for my family.   The mortgage payment is $1000 a month.  This expense would be categorized under "Needs".

I decide to pay my $1000 a month mortgage plus an extra $500 a month to pay it off early.   That's $1000 to needs and $500 to savings because I'm reducing a future debt payment.

I spend $600 on food, $200 of which is steak and lobster and its like.   $400 goes to needs, $200 goes to wants.

I already bought a $5,000 gaming system that I couldn't really afford.  I have payments of $200 a month for another 4 years to go.   This, dumb as it is, is categorized under "Needs" as it is a contractual obligation I have put myself under.

I am considering buying a $4,000 gizmo for our family's amusement.  It will cost $200 a month.   If I add this $200 to my current "Needs" spending, I will be spending 51% of our income on "Needs".    The correct budget response is to say, Nope, can't buy it.

It's important to remember that people start improving their personal finances from a variety of places.   Someone who starts at 80% Needs, 30% wants and -10% savings needs to focus on cutting spending on wants (to stop the budget deficit) and then needs to focus on paying off the needs or replacing those needs expenditures with less expensive options.

Someone at 45% Needs, 35% wants and 20% savings has a financially secure situation.  If they keep their needs spending below 50%, they'll be just fine (barring catastrophic issues).

Here's another reason this budget system works for folks.   It's low maintenance.   I need to figure out what my needs spending is and get to where my savings are on autopilot.   I don't have to count every penny, I just need to pay attention to my spending on a few key areas where my needs spending could easily be increased by lots of wants spending.   For most people, that's groceries and unexpected medical bills or unplanned repair costs.   If someone gets a raise, or their income cut, or the rent goes up, or they are considering buying something on time payments; then a bit of math is needed.  Otherwise, they pay their needs and set aside their savings, then spend the "wants" money on whatever.   

This was developed and written up first by Elizabeth Warren some years back in her book, "All Your Worth".   

If you've got friends and family who need a better personal finance model that what they're currently doing, and they aren't willing to go full on mustachian, this may well be something they could accept and follow.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2020, 04:45:47 PM »
I can't subscribe to any financial model (even one aimed at "average" people) where "wants" will outpace "savings". I think that just encourages the wrong financial mindset - the mindset that your desires and your happiness should be dictated by consumerism or wanting to keep up with or compare against others. It's a mindset that places a higher value on going with the crowd than living a well-examined life (and saving for retirement). It doesn't take a lot of cognitive ability to do some introspection about what really makes you happy. Happiness has to come from within, and friendships and relationships provide that happiness for damn near free.

Rosy

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2020, 08:36:54 PM »
I'm generally at 65% savings - that's really all that matters to me.
Once every six months, I reverse gear and use 65% for wants - zero savings - works for me:).
My needs are low, most months I have more than enough for wants.

SwordGuy - that is a fascinating breakdown of why this 50/30/20 is a thing that apparently works so well for so many.
I'll have to look into Elizabeth Warren's book "All your Worth".



KathrinS

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2020, 12:29:21 AM »
I'm usually at around 60% savings, 40% spending, but being self employed, it varies per month.
I think my budget is 60% savings, 33% needs, 7% wants. Needs are so high because I'm renting in London, but living and working here helps me to keep my earnings and savings rate high, so it's worth the cost.

Metalcat

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2020, 06:44:17 AM »
I can't subscribe to any financial model (even one aimed at "average" people) where "wants" will outpace "savings". I think that just encourages the wrong financial mindset - the mindset that your desires and your happiness should be dictated by consumerism or wanting to keep up with or compare against others. It's a mindset that places a higher value on going with the crowd than living a well-examined life (and saving for retirement). It doesn't take a lot of cognitive ability to do some introspection about what really makes you happy. Happiness has to come from within, and friendships and relationships provide that happiness for damn near free.

Funny, when I think of someone who spends more on wants than savings, I automatically think of CoastFI folks who might be saving 0% of their income and quite a bit on wants like travel.


phildonnia

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2020, 03:18:39 PM »
I think a better rule is not to use percentages. 

Needs are needs.  If you need it, you buy it if it's 50%, 100% or 150%. 

Wants I can see allocating a percentage.  But the strategy should be to attain maximum happiness through minimum expense.  That is done by intentionally controlling your wants, not by setting your wants at some particular percentage of your income.  If I magically doubled my income, I doubt that my wants expenditure would increase at all.  That may be the essence of the saving mindset.

For the record, I'm about 28/7/65.  Half of the 28% is taxes.

G-String

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Re: Have you figured your 50/30/20?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2020, 03:26:14 PM »
Mine is 50% savings, 45% needs and 5% wants.