Author Topic: Have you ever been poor?  (Read 23789 times)

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2013, 08:51:32 PM »
Agreed. ;)

It's very rare to see political discussions on the internet with an array of opposing views that doesn't degenerate into hopeless cable-news-style yelling. Maybe there's enough of a healthy representation of level-headed and respectful people here to be one of the rare examples.

I think I spoke too soon. There are a few people willing to remain level-headed and respectful, but each passing hour brings out another person from the "I think you're an idiot because your views don't mesh with mine" crowd. You know, the people who won't address what you say without trying very hard to insult you personally. Then they invent absurd thoughts for you that you never would have actually come up with, because you're not really the extreme caricature that they need you to be in order to marginalize you sufficiently.

Oh, well. I can't say it's surprising.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 08:53:53 PM by renbutler »

arebelspy

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2013, 09:37:12 PM »
Have you thought about how you are approaching the conversation?
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

dragoncar

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2013, 09:44:34 PM »

I've never been poor, but my wife's family was. This resonated with her. A lot of the points are good frugal principles, but remember the author wasn't living this way to save more of their paycheck. It's all just to keep their head above water.

...

It looks like 90% of being poor is kid-related.

totoro

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2013, 10:00:26 PM »
I would say that in NA unless you are mentally ill, addicted or quite ill (US only - Canada we have free healthcare), the only way you experience true poverty is if you are a child and your parent/caregiver fits one of these categories or your parent/caregiver has made poor choices themselves that the children have to live with. 

Bad choices or poor planning as an adult do not equal poverty in my books.  You have the power to change this and we have a social safety net.  It is lack of alternatives to hard circumstances that leads to true poverty.

Joet

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2013, 11:35:22 PM »
I was pretty broke in college but I think that's not in the spirit of this post. Like I'd have maybe $50 outside of bills in a given quarter outside bills/tuition/food

arebelspy

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2013, 01:01:01 AM »
I was pretty broke in college but I think that's not in the spirit of this post.

Broke and poor are different.

Plenty of people who make lots of money are broke, they aren't poor.

One could be poor in college, so that could be in the spirit of this post.  But yeah, just being low on cash in college isn't the same.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

ep114

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2013, 01:48:47 AM »
Hhmm, not sure it would meet the definition of poor, but when I was young, money was really really tight. there was never enough to pay all of the bills every month. and I learned from watching my mom that you could really work your finances. at first it meant juggling bills so utilities didn't get turned off, then as more and more money came in, it turned into FIRE for both of my parents (even without this website!)

When I was in college, I had very little money coming in and going out, and had the time of my life (mostly)  It's  a good reminder that you can enjoy life without a lot of money. It may have had something to with not getting hang-overs and never having to get up early though...

Theadyn

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2013, 03:26:39 AM »
I've never been poor, but my wife's family was. This resonated with her. A lot of the points are good frugal principles, but remember the author wasn't living this way to save more of their paycheck. It's all just to keep their head above water.

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.
Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.
Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.
Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends’ houses but never has friends over to yours.
Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.
Being poor is living next to the freeway.
Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.
Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn’t mind when you ask for help.
Being poor is off-brand toys.
Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.
Being poor is knowing you can’t leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.
Being poor is hoping your kids don’t have a growth spurt.
Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn’t have make dinner tonight because you’re not hungry anyway.
Being poor is Goodwill underwear.
Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.
Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.
Being poor is your kid’s school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.
Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.
Being poor is relying on people who don’t give a damn about you.
Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.
Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.
Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.
Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger’s trash.
Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.
Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.
Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.
Being poor is not taking the job because you can’t find someone you trust to watch your kids.
Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.
Being poor is not talking to that girl because she’ll probably just laugh at your clothes.
Being poor is hoping you’ll be invited for dinner.
Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.
Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.
Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.
Being poor is your kid’s teacher assuming you don’t have any books in your home.
Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.
Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually stupid.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually lazy.
Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.
Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn’t bought first.
Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that’s two extra packages for every dollar.
Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old.
Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.
Being poor is knowing you’re being judged.
Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.
Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.
Being poor is deciding that it’s all right to base a relationship on shelter.
Being poor is knowing you really shouldn’t spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.
Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.
Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won’t listen to you beg them against doing so.
Being poor is a cough that doesn’t go away.
Being poor is making sure you don’t spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.
Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.
Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.
Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.
Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.
Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.
Being poor is running in place.
Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave.

this made me cry. I completely understand what this author means. We were pretty much that poor growing up. We always had a home but constantly worried about losing it. Always hungry. Knew better than to ask for treats. Realizing when the box of cereal is gone, it is GONE-no mid week run to the grocery store

Hand me downs. Only a few underwear each. Toilet paper was always sparse. Loved visiting my parents friends/family because they would often dump a bag of chips in a bowl. All of us kids would stand around the bowl shoveling as many chips as we possibly could down our gob. Even though our dad was glaring at us for hogging all the chips and we KNEW we would get the strap when we got home that night

But that didn't matter

There were CHIPS!

It was worth the strap and we only got it if he could catch us-we were all fast runners and could shoot up a tree faster than a monkey on acid (dad didn't climb trees and too lazy to wait for us to get down)

Me too :(

I did at one time work 3 jobs, grateful I could take my daughter on one, zero child support or government help, couldn't buy food.   I remember bawling my eyes out in the car one night after my sister gave me groceries, no one knew how bad I needed them. I've always tried to make sure people that i thought needed help could eat to pay it forward.

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2013, 07:56:24 AM »
Have you thought about how you are approaching the conversation?

Absolutely. I will not kick down the door and yell my thoughts at others. I will not mock people for disagreeing. I will simply state my ideas and then discuss them with anybody who is interested.

Great question. I wish more people would consider this question before they enter those kinds of discussions. Political discourse is so disappointing these days. It seems like so few of us are remotely interested in fair debate instead of "I'M RIGHT, YOU SUCK."
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 07:58:10 AM by renbutler »

arebelspy

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2013, 09:33:58 AM »
Mmm.  Well I read some of your replies, and asked that question for a reason.  The same could be asked of a few others as well, obviously.

/shrug

Something to think about.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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Joet

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2013, 10:39:55 AM »
Have you thought about how you are approaching the conversation?

+1, internets are serious business to you renster

Bank

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »
Not true poverty like some on here.  Money was always scarce, but we always had a big garden and no electric, cable, telephone or mortgage bills (because we had no electricity, TV, and telephone, and lived on a cheap piece of land in the middle of nowhere). 

Whenever I'd ask for the latest consumer product my parents would tell me, "We don't choose to spend our money on that."  So I never felt poor -- I just thought my parents were frugal (and weird and mean -- like most kids who don't get what they want).  Boy was I grateful when they used all that money they hadn't spent on consumables and electricity and phone bills to help me through college!!

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2013, 11:36:26 AM »
Mmm.  Well I read some of your replies, and asked that question for a reason.  The same could be asked of a few others as well, obviously.

/shrug

Something to think about.

I'm sure there's always room for improvement for all of us. I don't enter those conversations trying to incite trouble (I hate petty conflict), but sometimes I allow myself to get pulled into the fray somewhat.

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2013, 11:37:49 AM »
Have you thought about how you are approaching the conversation?

+1, internets are serious business to you renster

Pardon?

I've been around this rodeo many, many times. I actually don't take it nearly as seriously as most people I come across.

Joet

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2013, 12:07:10 PM »
The level of froth in that other thread suggests otherwise.

DoubleDown

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2013, 12:09:57 PM »
Yes, grew up poor as a child with a divorced mom and therefore fairly poor while in college (100% financial aid/scholarships, which still felt like a huge step up from childhood poverty). Never starved or completely homeless (lived with family friends instead sometimes) or temporarily at places with free/reduced rent, but making ends meet was always in doubt, always at the bottom 1 - 10% of peers in economic status, got free school lunches, etc.

It always makes you an outsider to some degree, such as when the entire class goes on the day trip to the aquarium, but you are the single kid back in the classroom playing cards with the substitute teacher because your mom can't afford the $10 admission. And still I had it worlds better than kids who are starving, homeless, etc.

Made me never want to be insecure with money ever again, and my first professional job out of college with a good paycheck was absolutely f'ing amazing. I think I paid off my student loans in 2-3 months since I knew how to live on about $200/month. Also made me feel self-sufficient and confident (some would say too much so) since I figured out how to get shit done on my own.

mpbaker22

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2013, 12:17:44 PM »

I've never been poor, but my wife's family was. This resonated with her. A lot of the points are good frugal principles, but remember the author wasn't living this way to save more of their paycheck. It's all just to keep their head above water.

...

It looks like 90% of being poor is kid-related.

I'd take this a step further.  I think 90% of being poor is taking care of multiple people, not just yourself.  Sure, the cost per person of housing, food, etc. goes down, but the overall cost obviously goes up.  Even though I'm pretty mustachian, I'd still be spending $40K/year if my costs went up linearly and I had 3 dependents.

DoubleDown

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2013, 12:18:25 PM »
Also, if I had grown up just a few decades earlier when there was no such thing as need-based financial aid, I would have likely been a low-paid worker the rest of my life, or just another drain on society. Education would have stopped at high school since it would have been completely unaffordable. Had it not been for government-subsidized financial aid, I'd never have the opportunities I had, and the taxpayer has recovered their "investment" in me many times over through the much higher taxes I'm able to pay with my higher paying income. Something I try to remind myself whenever I'm tempted to point the finger at "all the welfare scammers."

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2013, 12:24:04 PM »
The level of froth in that other thread suggests otherwise.

Froth from me? I haven't been angry about any part of the thread. Perhaps you can tell me what words sounded "frothy." Perhaps in a PM so that this thread can continue on-topic.

When I ask where people learned their tactics, it's not anger at all. It's an honest quest for enlightenment.

I'm not angry or serious. I am simply curious. Always eager and willing to learn. I certainly don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend that I do (a very common an annoying trend on the internet).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 12:26:06 PM by renbutler »

Rural

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2013, 12:42:27 PM »
I've just come from a meeting where it was brought home to me again how little understanding people who have never been poor or been close to poverty can have. We were discussing whether/how to require students to attend campus events outside of class.

I brought up students who live a long way away (our service area is huge because there aren't any other colleges around), and our night students, most of whom work full time. I was told that we too often "make excuses" for students because they have lives.

It's true sometimes, is the problem with that. If we reduce rigor or eliminate some course requirements that are actually needed for learning for some students because of their nonschool commitments, there's a problem.

But. Requiring students who are in night classes to choose between skipping work or skipping other classes to attend social events is something else entirely. Luckily, this was just one person, and the group as a whole did not see things her way. But the root of the trouble is that she is upper middle class, with a steady job, a flexible schedule, and the money to pay babysitters, and she's never been outside of that world and sees no reason why everyone shouldn't just act the way she would act in that situation.

The real rub is that I know this professor to be a genuinely nice and kindhearted person. She truly couldn't see the cruelty of her position or the silliness of her desire to provide students who are trying to learn and feed themselves at the same time with what she sees as "the college experience." I don't know how to help people like that understand a world other than their own.

Mozactly

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2013, 07:17:31 PM »
I think by income standards my family was below the poverty line growing up. But I never felt that way. My mother was a whiz at financing, and we never went hungry and never went without shelter or basic needs.

I learned a lot from her, and was able to put myself through grad school (only one small loan pending payoff) on a small reporters salary as a result of the financial savvy I developed along the way.


I Love Cake

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2013, 08:04:35 AM »
I was thinking of this thread and just thought of something pretty cute (and sad I suppose) my siblings and I (there are 5 of us) would do as poor kids.

We would pour over the Sears catalogue and just stare and point at all the refrigerator and freezer pages. We would point at all the yummy food stocked in the fridges and freezer...mmmm...look they have ICE CREAM...ohh and frozen waffles.....mmm..look at that ham, and all that fruit...and we would all sit there, pushing for a better view of all the wonderful food.

The Christmas Wish Book was the best because it also had pages upon pages of CANDY. I remember a cornucopia spilling out loose candy-just pounds and pounds of the stuff...we would 'mmm' and 'yum' over those pages too. *swoon*

And even today, I STILL look at the food in the fridges and freezers.

Did any other poor kid do this?

totoro

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #72 on: June 20, 2013, 11:41:47 AM »
No, food was never a strong motivator for me.  We ate cheap stuff and I did not like a lot of it, but I didn't care too much about this.

The Christmas Wish Book was big though.  I spent hours looking at it and imagining being able to buy new clothes that I liked. 

This is why I am happy to contribute to expensive, nice-looking clothes for my older child.  It is really important to him (unlike the others) and I understand this.  He is willing to work to contribute too and I know he has good money management in general. 

One thing about growing up poor is that it makes being able to give your kids different opportunities really satisfying.

Mozactly

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2013, 12:57:11 PM »
I was thinking of this thread and just thought of something pretty cute (and sad I suppose) my siblings and I (there are 5 of us) would do as poor kids.

We would pour over the Sears catalogue and just stare and point at all the refrigerator and freezer pages. We would point at all the yummy food stocked in the fridges and freezer...mmmm...look they have ICE CREAM...ohh and frozen waffles.....mmm..look at that ham, and all that fruit...and we would all sit there, pushing for a better view of all the wonderful food.

The Christmas Wish Book was the best because it also had pages upon pages of CANDY. I remember a cornucopia spilling out loose candy-just pounds and pounds of the stuff...we would 'mmm' and 'yum' over those pages too. *swoon*

And even today, I STILL look at the food in the fridges and freezers.

Did any other poor kid do this?

We LOVED the Sears catalog. We would pick out the furniture and clothes we wanted to have when we were grown ups.

Gerard

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2013, 07:57:11 AM »
It's very rare to see political discussions on the internet with an array of opposing views that doesn't degenerate into hopeless cable-news-style yelling. Maybe there's enough of a healthy representation of level-headed and respectful people here to be one of the rare examples.

I agree!

I'm the "socialism, baby!" poster. I'm okay with your smackdown, but I did actually mean what I originally said. Government subsidized education and health are often put down as scary socialism by people (including those on this site) who think their success was all entirely of their own making, so I wanted to point out that some of those scary programmes actually worked for me (and, as far as I can tell, for ERE Jacob and MMM). Maybe I could/should have put quotation marks around "socialism"? I thought the "baby" part made my intentions clear. :-)

But yeah, I accept that a (semi-) capitalist system let me prosper once I'd been given the chance at a near-level playing field. Things like union-negotiated high salaries and union-negotiated pension plans and a stable highly-government-controlled banking system and-- no, wait, I'm just digging myself in deeper here....

Zamboni

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #75 on: July 04, 2013, 01:14:32 PM »
Quote
I have never had to worry about having food/shelter, so I would say that I have never been poor.

This is what I would say as well.  My parents were well educated starving artists, though, so we lived "by the freeway."  There was just a chain link fence there, and I was forbidden to cross the frontage road.  There were drug dealers down at the other end of the road, so I wasn't supposed to go too far that way either, but I pretty much ignored that advice by the time I was about 7.  After all, I had to get by them to walk to the park.

All through elementary school most of my friends were in financially dire circumstances.  There was not embarrassment about being free lunch:  almost everyone was free lunch.  Because I was just "the neighbor kid," no one paid attention to me and I saw all kinds of problems.  Most of it was neglect because any parents who worked couldn't afford child care.  My best friend was an only child and a latch key kid from the time he was 3.  My Mom basically took him in during the day when his mom was at work and gave him lunch and a bath sometimes.  It was really sad.  Another of my friend's Moms, who didn't work, taught us how to "work the system" for aid when we were in 4th grade.  Mom started a cub scout pack but couldn't get any of the few local dads to help, so they camped in our back yard and she'd find scrap wood and nails so that could have fun hammering and building stuff.  My brother recently told me that only he and one other boy from that pack graduated from high school.  That makes me sad too as they were a fun and smart bunch of little boys.  As pretty much all of the kids were completely unsupervised most of the time, we'd have fun walking to the park and making up all sorts of games.  I had smart, creative friends.  Some of them didn't pass every level of school, so I had kids in my class who were a couple of years older than me, but I didn't think much of it.

I never felt poor in elementary school; I always felt like the rich kid because I had two parents and we always had food, and I was aware that some of my friends did not.  We had winter coats and not everyone did.  One mom stole my brother's coat for her own boy, and when she discovered who had it I got to witness a cat fight (my mom won.) 

Once I turned 12 years old in 6th grade I started babysitting, and I babysat for more than one family that had absolutely no food.  One place had only a bottle of ketchup in the fridge, and I had to put those boys to bed hungry.  Another time they gave us a can of cheese puffs as they headed out to party.  There I was, 12, watching a 5 year old and two toddlers, and we had a can of cheese puffs for dinner.  That was it.  Really I thought we were rich.  My mom is a great cook who can make something delicious from practically nothing.  We had a car, which not everyone had, and even though it was rusted out and constantly leaked oil we would go to the museums, which were free.  My mom taught me to play the piano, and my brother and I were the only children I knew who were privileged enough to be given such a skill as playing an instrument.  I knew there were "super-rich" people who lived in other neighborhoods, but they just seemed like a fairy tale.  Even though they tried to hide it, I know my parents worried constantly about money.  And my mom put on a good show:  she'd bake treats and have parties for all the neighbor children for our birthdays and for Halloween. 

It was in junior high when I got sent up the hill for 7th grade that I had the epiphany:  we were fairly poor, and everyone I knew was poor.  I was from the absolute armpit of middle class area, and all of the other kids from the other elementary schools were well off.  "Blighted" was the word that I overheard one of the wealthy dads use for my neighborhood.  I had to look it up. 

Even though my test scores were extremely strong, I did not get initially placed into the Honors classes.  Before I went up the hill, my 6th grade teacher told me he had recommended it, but that the jr. high school thought it would be better for me to stay in the lower classes instead.  Basically he was apologizing.  He had tried, he said.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I knew I was smart, and at that point I thought I was rich.  Why wouldn't I be put in the hardest classes?

Then I got there.  Thankfully the math teacher moved me (and two of my best friends) to the higher class in less than a week.  It took them a month to move me into the more advanced English class.  Basically, they placed me in lower classes than they should of just because I was poor.  Nice.

 I can go on and on, but this is already long.  Suffice it to say that by the time I was 15 I knew the following:

-no matter how bad I have it, there are people who have it worse.
-rich people are not smarter than poor people; they just think they are.
-if you are poor (or look poor), people really do assume you are stupid.
-the circumstances you are born into mean more to your success in life than most people are willing to admit.
-social programs that help children below the poverty line (free lunch, head start, big brothers and sister, etc.) are absolutely critical and must be maintained.
-you don't need much to get by and have a good life.
-when you get a good job, you better save most of that money, because you never know when you'll get a job that good again.
-education is worth more than gold.

jrhampt

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2013, 06:19:27 AM »
Fantastic post, Zamboni.  Thank you.

renbutler

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2013, 07:59:20 AM »
One of the most important things I learned as an ADULT is not to pigeon-hole people into definitions like "rich" and "poor." There is such a variety of types of people among all classes. Each class might share a few characteristics, but they are still all unique and can't really be defined by how much money they make or accumulate.

Gerard

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2013, 03:36:33 PM »
Zamboni said it better than I did (and yeah, I recognized a lot of myself and my upbringing in there!).

Albert

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2013, 02:59:41 AM »
Some insightful and educational posts in this thread. Thanks to all!

It was mentioned that it's difficult to imagine for people who have never been poor how it is and that is absolutely true. I can read the stories, but truly imagine it? Not really... I wonder how much the financial situation in childhood and adolescence affects the later disposition towards money during the adult life.

I grew up in Soviet Union int it's last years and was twelve years old when it finally collapsed. Both my parents were engineers, but that didn't mean rich in the system there merely comfortable. In any case the problem was not the money, but inability to buy anything with the money you had. I still remember standing in line with my mother or grandmother for an hour or two to buy a sausage. I had to go along because there was a limited amount one customer was allowed to buy. We were better off than most only because of relatives in Canada which were sending us some more fancy clothes and shoes not freely available locally. Then the capitalism finally came (ca '90-92) my parents had more initiative and more luck than most and as a result their incomes increased steadily. When I reached my teenage years our family was better off than all of our relatives and most of my friends. Both parents were working a lot and earning several times the average salary, but also spending quite freely. For example, in the late 90-ties mother would take me and my younger sister out to a restaurant (not fast food) 2-3 times per week to save time on cooking. Later on their fortunes declined a little bit, but perhaps from that time is my instinctive attitude that money is something you always have. Fortunately I'm also a saver by nature so I've never had any money problems. My sister is the opposite and it took her a long time to learn being more modest with money...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 04:31:29 AM by Albert »

Bigote

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2013, 04:00:04 AM »
Agreed an excellent thread, for those of us who were fortunate enough to be born into better economic circumstances it really makes you think.

mikefixac

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2013, 12:47:08 AM »
Years ago, not by choice, I ate only eggs, potatoes and bread. I removed a screw to the knob on a pan top, and inserted foil in the hole. That was my frying pan. So I made a lot of egg and potato sandwiches. And a few times clothes were dirty and I was ashamed of going to school, even though that was the highlight of my life at the time.

Now way beyond poor, but because of what I believe is a healthy diet, most of my food intake is starches, ie, rice, beans, potatoes. And I'm grateful for this diet.

When I look back at the time I felt I was poor, in reality I was still weathy. I had my health, youth, and many other things--just not the right perspective. Now people in poor countries, not the US, that is poverty.

My wife's cousin said the first time he came to US (a few years ago from Cuba) when he first walked in a grocery store he started crying. He couldn't believe what he was seeing. For us, we don't even give it a second thought.

WhatMomWears

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2013, 03:12:06 PM »
Never been poor.
I once had an acting coach tell me that I could never really understand/act suffering until I'd been so absolutely broke/poor that I had no idea where my next dollar was coming from. I always had family I could fall back on if it ever came to being that. 

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2013, 03:46:49 PM »
Fantastic post, Zamboni.  Thank you.

+juan

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2013, 09:16:39 PM »
Quote
In any case the problem was not the money, but inability to buy anything with the money you had.

Thank you for sharing some international perspective on this.  In the mid-90's we collaborated with two scientists from St. Petersburg.  Russian currency had devalued to the point of being nearly useless at that time, and their stories were certainly distressing.  Things like having only one lightbulb in the whole house to avoid using electricity.  Sometimes I wonder if something like this could happen suddenly in the United States, but then I decide I'd rather not even think about it, so I put the thought away.

It's interesting, too, how the same situation can affect two people differently.  My brother's experience seems to have been much worse than mine when we talk about it.  He says that I have "blocked out" much of our childhood, and perhaps that is true.  Certainly writing in this thread made me realize that deciding which specific situation to detail was difficult because there were just so many unfortunate situations to choose from.  I also think part of the difference was that I ended up going far away for college, while he stayed closer to home and ended up starting a small construction business in the area.  So he was a first hand witness to the effects that the poverty had on our neighborhood friends as they became adults, while I effectively "escaped" from it.

Another thing is just how many things we didn't even talk about at the time.
For example, recently my brother told me that he and two of his friends were robbed at gun point (yes, for their basketball shoes, what a cliche) when he was in high school.  They were walking home from the rec center after dark.  Here is our goofy conversation about this nearly 20 years later:
Me:  "OMG what did you tell mom!" 
Him: "Um, nothing."
"What?! Did you call the police? Why didn't you tell mom?"
"We didn't call the cops.  There wasn't any place nearby to make a call.  It was just some crazy homeless guy who popped out of an alley and we were all grateful that he only took our shoes and didn't shoot us.  On the rest of the walk home we decided not to tell our Moms because we thought they'd freak out and stop letting us walk to the rec center to play basketball at night."
"Who were you with?"
"Chad and Shane."
"Somebody mugged YOU, CHAD, and SHANE!!?"  (I am incredulous at this point as these are three of the biggest guys I know.)
"HE HAD A GUN!  And he was waving it all around and he looked all strung out and crazy.  He didn't even ask for our wallets."
"I still can't believe someone would go after the three of you.  Didn't Mom notice that you didn't have your shoes?"
"No."
"What did she say when you said you needed new shoes?"
"Who says I asked for new shoes?"
"I can't believe that happened!"
"Well, it did.  It's a pretty crappy neighborhood, sis, remember?"
"Yeah, I guess you're right."

And this reminds me that my brother also had his car stolen when he was about 20.  He was visiting my Dad for all of 2 minutes, and when he came back outside it was gone.  So this time he did call the police, and by then the guy who stole it had driven it down the road to use as his getaway vehicle in a store cash register robbery.  The robber freaked when he heard the sirens and fled the scene on foot, leaving the cash he had just stolen in the car, so the police were able to recover my brother's car (YAY!) but then they impounded it because it was used in a felony armed robbery (BOO!)  He did get it back eventually.  I can see how his recollection of our neighborhood is even worse than mine.  :-)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 09:31:18 PM by Zamboni »

Joshin

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2013, 12:00:04 AM »
My husband and I were broke for many years. Yep, bad decisions, although most were leftovers from our single days. But for 48 hours, we were poor.

It is vital to me that my kids don't go into daycare. Call me irrational, but that was my biggest fear when my boys were young. Hubs and I seemed stuck with shift work at the time, although we both have college educations. We worked opposing shifts and had just enough to make ends meet. We talked a lot about changing our lot in life, starting a business to utilize our degrees (him: graphic design, me: journalism), but we never had time.All in all, life was good.

Then in 2007 his company went belly up and I quit my job after a particularly terrifying robbery at the workplace. I'd never had issues finding work again. I knew only one of us had to find minimum wage work at the very least and we could make ends meet, so I wasn't worried. We were quite skilled in frugality. Problem was, it was 2008 and there were no jobs. The paper and Craigslist only had MLM scams or things that needed advanced degrees neither of us had. So, ashamed with tails between our legs, we applied for welfare.

The 48 hour application process was when it hit me I was poor. Looking back now, that was our face punch. We had to fill out an all too personal application, then meet with a woman for a pre-interview. She was shocked we were educated, that my children were polite and well-spoken, that we had no debt (but no savings either). She sent us on to step two the next day.

We had to go to a "workforce" center. Here we took an eight hour long class on what would be expected of us, how to dress and behave for an interview, and we had to meet with another counselor. All well and good, although slightly demeaning. ("Remember, a job interview is not a place for cursing!" chirped the trainer at one point.) When I met with the counselor, they asked me my plans for childcare. Confused, I said my children don't go to childcare and shouldn't need it. We would schedule interviews and what not around each other's schedules. Nope, I was told. Hubs and I would both have to sit in the workforce center for eight hours daily either filling out applications on the center's computers or taking classes on how to get a job. Um, why? Well, because people tend to fake applications and not really look for work otherwise. But that's okay, the state will pay for childcare until you get a job, then you will get low-cost childcare from then on out.

No. Just no. It was a trap. I saw the trap. Low-cost care would still take the majority of a minimum wage paycheck. We would be spending money on gas or bus fare to get to the workforce center five days a week, plus any interviews. I ran numbers in my head and realized that even if we found work, all that money would be going right back to the system and we would be stuck on a hamster wheel, unable to escape. It's a self-feeding loop, not a hand out OR a hand up. Get money, give money back, over and over again. I said no. I walked out, only stopping in the waiting room to tell hubs, who chose to leave with me.

When we got home, I remembered a job I had in college. I sat out on our front stoop until 4 am, when the paper guy drove by. I asked him about routes. I hadn't seen any advertised, but from experience I was sure there was a route available somewhere. Sure enough, he knew of a guy who was quitting in a couple of weeks and he hooked me up.

We delivered papers seven nights a week for two years. Eventually, we had three routes going. The money wasn't awesome, but we were free of the race and out of the endless loop. We worked a few hours a night, with the rest of the day free. My husband started building up his art portfolio and doing some freelance illustrating. I launched my writing career. We saved, we kept the paper routes even when the income from our business exceeded the income from the route. In 2009, we bought a house. We paid cash for a new (to us) car. I kept one of the paper routes for another year, I was so terrified of reliving that 48 hours again. I had seen how poverty became a cycle and was almost ensnared by it. We're doing good now. The house will paid off in about 8 years, the same time we'll have enough saved to retire if we want.

That 48 hours scarred me, though. I still have the number of my old boss from the paper route in my phone, and his email is in my important documents folder. Just in case, you know.

(BTW, Hiiiiii!~>frantic wave. I'm new to the forum, but I totally suck at making inane intro posts and tend to just jump in when something finally grabs my interest enough to force me out of lurkdom.)

arebelspy

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Re: Have you ever been poor?
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2013, 12:14:36 AM »
(BTW, Hiiiiii!~>frantic wave. I'm new to the forum, but I totally suck at making inane intro posts and tend to just jump in when something finally grabs my interest enough to force me out of lurkdom.)

Welcome.  Glad something drew you out.  :)

Thanks for sharing your story!
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