Has Disney just outpriced themselves?

[dandarc]

Dammit.  Now I want to go on a cruise!

Wife wants to try Royal Carribean, and there is a 5 night one from Tampa in November that looks enticing - hits veteran's day, and 2 weekend days, so we'd only need 3 days off work to make it happen.

Sounds nice.  I'd suggest waiting for a last minute deal on that cruise or similar if you can drive to FL or figure out relatively cheap flights (maybe book 21+ days out?).  Prices were ridiculously low in November of last year.

Living in North FL, getting to Tampa, Port Canaveral, and Jacksonville is no problem (Mobile was fine too, when there were actually cruises from there).  Getting to Miami is a bit too much of a haul, New Orleans is borderline.  See how we feel after our upcoming trip to Italy - maybe next year.

[RunHappy]

Dammit.  Now I want to go on a cruise!

Wife wants to try Royal Carribean, and there is a 5 night one from Tampa in November that looks enticing - hits veteran's day, and 2 weekend days, so we'd only need 3 days off work to make it happen.

Sounds nice.  I'd suggest waiting for a last minute deal on that cruise or similar if you can drive to FL or figure out relatively cheap flights (maybe book 21+ days out?).  Prices were ridiculously low in November of last year.

Living in North FL, getting to Tampa, Port Canaveral, and Jacksonville is no problem (Mobile was fine too, when there were actually cruises from there).  Getting to Miami is a bit too much of a haul, New Orleans is borderline.  See how we feel after our upcoming trip to Italy - maybe next year.

I've only been on one cruise and loved being able to visit many places but only unpacking once.  The only thing I didn't like was the constant motion sickness I felt for the whole week (I'm very sensitive to it).

[partgypsy]

thanks for all the info! Was hoping to schedule for next March because that will be our 20th anniversary but downside is not the cheapest time and may have to deal with spring breakers? (way back when we did elope during spring break...) Sounds like summer is expensive and hot/humid which is not ideal.  Really intruiged that 2 cabins not much more expensive than 1, because then it would make it much more like a real vacation versus a family one.
Maybe what I will do is shoot for fall 2016. Root of good, think you can get your manual finished by then ; ) otherwise will read up on your other reports.    I am not susceptible at all to motion sickness (even when other people are heaving) neither is husband but no idea about kids, so will need to read up what are better versus worse cabins.

[partgypsy]

Oh and I already weighed in on another thread someone on here, but I don't think Disney has yet out-priced itself, because it is still seen as an aspirational archetypal even bucket-list type vacation. My oldest daughter who is very mature for her years and not into disney type movies, merchandise, when I asked what her ideal vacation would be, was either Atlantis (bahamas) or staying at the Polynesian (Disneyworld).  And there are enough people (through credit or otherwise) able to go on enough of a basis to fill the parks daily. I think this will only change if a) poor management, that parks not kept up, not modernized, etc or multiple types of price gouging happening enough to tick off folks,so its ratings fall, and/or b) tastes change in what is considered top form of vacation, or type of vacation (already changing in that some prefer the Disney cruise to the destination Disneyworld and it loses its luster.

[dandarc]

Oh and I already weighed in on another thread someone on here, but I don't think Disney has yet out-priced itself, because it is still seen as an aspirational archetypal even bucket-list type vacation. My oldest daughter who is very mature for her years and not into disney type movies, merchandise, when I asked what her ideal vacation would be, was either Atlantis (bahamas) or staying at the Polynesian (Disneyworld).  And there are enough people (through credit or otherwise) able to go on enough of a basis to fill the parks daily. I think this will only change if a) poor management, that parks not kept up, or other aspects not modernized, etc so its ratings fall, and/or b) tastes, tastes change in what is considered top form of vacation, or type of vacation is preferred (already changing in that some prefer the Disney cruise to the destination Disneyworld and it loses its luster.

The Polynesian is fantastic - but probably not worth the price - stayed there once for 2 nights, back when ER wasn't even on the radar - really nice, very convenient transportation, but at $500 / night (in early January), never again.  Maybe in a few years if you can rent DVC points or something.

[HawkeyeNFO]

I don't think anyone on this site would be paying full price for Disney or their resorts.  There are a lot of discounts available.  Last time we (fam of 5) went, our flights were free (points from SW credit cards & companion pass), our hotel (Dolphin/Swan, with free bus to all parks, or free boat to Epcot) was free (points from SPG credit cards), and we had military deals on the tix, which I also got for the in-laws.  So we had to pay regular prices only for transportation to/from the airport, and food and drinks.  Even if you're not military, there are several discounts available.  Not as many as 6 Flags, but Disney discounts are around.

[geekette]

They also routinely have free food & drink with lodging in the off season.  Plus, the more days you buy on your tickets, the less they cost per day.  We had a grand time there last fall. With FastPass+, we rarely had to wait in line.

[I'm a red panda]

They also routinely have free food & drink with lodging in the off season.  Plus, the more days you buy on your tickets, the less they cost per day.  We had a grand time there last fall. With FastPass+, we rarely had to wait in line.

IMO, free dining is rarely worth it- because you have to pay rack room rate.  Dining is only "worth it" if you actually justify the expense as every person would get a drink and a dessert at all the meals.  Since almost no one I know actually does that, they are paying for something they wouldn't otherwise have bought. 

Free dining also no longer includes tips- so you now have to tip on the inflated bill of a dessert and drink you wouldn't have otherwise bought. 

Getting a room-only discount and then paying out of pocket for meals where you drink a (free) glass of water and maybe share a dessert is generally better.

The exception is if you do A LOT of character meals, as those things are insanely priced, so the dining credits are usually a better deal.


One nice thing about Disney is you can bring food and drink into the park. So it is easy to pack a few snacks, maybe even lunch, and a couple bottles of soda if you're so inclined.

[Teddy25]

I have been to every Disney park in the world. 

The Japanese Disney land and sea have the better value due to the current exchange rates.  Just try to avoid the days they allow 100k people in the park
Just get couple credit cards for free flight and there is a Sheraton and Hilton on the tram route.  The tickets are about $50.

[geekette]

They also routinely have free food & drink with lodging in the off season.  Plus, the more days you buy on your tickets, the less they cost per day.  We had a grand time there last fall. With FastPass+, we rarely had to wait in line.

IMO, free dining is rarely worth it- because you have to pay rack room rate.  Dining is only "worth it" if you actually justify the expense as every person would get a drink and a dessert at all the meals.  Since almost no one I know actually does that, they are paying for something they wouldn't otherwise have bought.

Worked well for us because it was just two meals a day, so we'd split stuff, plus two of the places we ate took double credit.  Nothing went to waste, and like I said, we had a great time.  And when you're walking 10 miles a day, dessert's not a problem!

[rocketpj]

We're actually going in a couple of weeks.  The kids are the right age, and most importantly - we have a friend who has become an exec at Disney and can get us in free (and we are staying at their house as well). 

Otherwise I doubt I'd ever go - I'm 42 and haven't yet.

[ltt]

We were at DW the week between Christmas and New Year's.  I'd go to DW again, but definitely NOT during that week.  Insane crowd levels--I overhead from a security guard that Magic Kingdom was at 80,000 during New Year's Eve-----and that was just MK, it didn't include DHS, Epcot, or Animal Kingdom.  And that's the thing, DW needs to get their crowd levels down--I don't see that happening any time soon.

A breakdown of our costs:  We are a family of 6.  We flew to Orlando, rather than spend 6 days total in driving.

Airfare for 6 - around $4500
Hotel and tickets (did not park hop) - around $5600 (moderately priced resort on DW property)
Travel Insurance - $210 (wouldn't be without it--have had to use it before, and we have a child with medical needs)
Service Fee $100
Food and Souvenirs - $2387
Stroller rental from off-site company - $100
Airport parking - $100

$12,997, give or take $150.  Basically, around $13,000.  I don't do this to brag, but rather to show just how much going to DW costs.  Airfare over the holiday season is very high--we could have cut that down by going a different time of year.  And we could have absolutely slashed our costs by driving instead.  And my guess is that we will go again some time and will go at a different time of year.  We stayed at one of the medium priced resorts.  If we would have stayed at one that was farther out, it would have been less, but to stay at one of the more expensive resorts (Polynesian, Grand Floridian, or the Contemporary) would have added an additional $5,000--we priced it out.  There may be properties that have little kitchenettes, and we could have saved money that way by having groceries delivered in, or we could have stayed off property, driven back and forth every day, had no idea where we were going, and been utterly exhausted at the end of the day, and then had to drive back to a property on top of it--no thanks.

You can bring food into DW, from what I understand.

I will say that I do believe that having the new MagicBands makes it much, much easier to spend more.  Because all you do is swipe your band.  It makes it much more efficient than having to dig into your purse/wallet to get out cash/credit cards.  Disney definitely knew what they were doing in regards to this.

Also, the time of year we travelled, there were a few days where it was drizzly/cool weather, so my husband and sons bought hoodies, as they brought no outwear with them.  They definitely needed them, but they were expensive.

Some of the lines were 2 hour waits, but if you decided to ride while the fireworks were going off at night, the lines were short.  There is a wait time app you can get for your phone which shows what the wait times are for the rides and then plan around that.

And there are those people who are Disney fanatics--gotta love it.  I give them credit.  It's a wonderful, ultra clean place, and I think it's neat that they love it so much that they go every year or twice a year.  One of our waitresses just loved Disney and she and her husband finally moved down there to work.  I think you will hear that story among many of the employees. 

I think I'm ready to start planning our next trip.......

[I'm a red panda]

Worked well for us because it was just two meals a day, so we'd split stuff, plus two of the places we ate took double credit.  Nothing went to waste, and like I said, we had a great time.  And when you're walking 10 miles a day, dessert's not a problem!

But did you actually do the math on whether a room only discount would have been better? 
The dining plan is convenient for sure, but it rarely saves money. Disney wouldn't offer it if it did, they want to make money.

If you're someone who always eats desserts and orders sodas, maybe it would- but most of the time on disboards when people do the math, they save NOT using the dining plan (except with character meals).    If you shared meals, it sounds like you mostly did counter service, a lot of the table service places don't allow meal sharing, which would also make the dining plan a bit better.

Of course, most of them then choose the dining plan anyway because it is "already paid for", which apparently makes it easier somehow...

[geekette]

Worked well for us because it was just two meals a day, so we'd split stuff, plus two of the places we ate took double credit.  Nothing went to waste, and like I said, we had a great time.  And when you're walking 10 miles a day, dessert's not a problem!

But did you actually do the math on whether a room only discount would have been better? 
The dining plan is convenient for sure, but it rarely saves money. Disney wouldn't offer it if it did, they want to make money.

If you're someone who always eats desserts and orders sodas, maybe it would- but most of the time on disboards when people do the math, they save NOT using the dining plan (except with character meals).    If you shared meals, it sounds like you mostly did counter service, a lot of the table service places don't allow meal sharing, which would also make the dining plan a bit better.

Of course, most of them then choose the dining plan anyway because it is "already paid for", which apparently makes it easier somehow...

Yes, the math worked out.  The whole week (6 nights at the Coronado, 7 day tickets, meal plan) was $2100 for the two of us.  Extras (gas, hotel, and meals on the drive, cat sitter, tips) added another $550.  We each got 6 counter service meals, 6 snacks, and 6 sit down meals.  We had to each use 2 sit down meal coupons to eat at Artist Point (fabulous) and maybe one other place, I forget.  Our last snack was a cold soda for the road.

If we'd been fine with cheap meals the whole week, then the room discount might have been better, but part of the fun (for us) at Disney is the theming, right down to the restaurants.  Artist Point, Boma, Brown Derby, Chefs de France, Coral Reef.  It was also nice to be able to order what I wanted rather than what was the cheapest, which is my tendency.  We were very happy we went that route, although we'd prefer not to stay at Coronado again.  Least favorite of all we've tried.

[Sibley]

I went to the California one in 2012. $200 for a two day, park hopper pass. Only went because my then BF is completely obsessed with Disney, and I worked very hard to find discount hotel, etc. I'm good now, don't need to go back.

[partgypsy]

Both times we went we did the room + meal plan, in part because a) it was a discount that way, b) we planned lots of character or reservation restaurant only meals, and c) I wanted to be on "vacation" and not have to deal with meal planning and preparation. Our family does not drink soda but it was good to be able to get other drinks like ice tea, lemonade or fruit drinks included also getting dessert with every sit down meal rocked : ) The two meals with snack plan was generous enough we were able to cover breakfasts with our snacks, and had enough snacks leftover at the end of vacation for treats on the drive home. Yes there is definitely enough research out there, that you can maximize whatever dollars you do spend. The first time I went to WDW was when I was 41 but still very much enjoyed it (customer service is amazing). They know what they are doing. In the 2 visits, we ate at Akershus (2x), Brown Derby (part of fantasmic package), Boatwrights, Crystal Palace, Tusker House, Ohana, the German beerhaus (can't remember name but the beers were really good and crazy huge!), and Yak and Yeti. 


 

[MissPeach]

(threadjack) root of good, do you have any tips about saving for cruises? I know there are websites but the amount of info is pretty overwhelming and not sure how to search and I don't see the big savings. Are inside cabins claustrophobic or OK? I'm talking about a family of 4 for a 5 day cruise to eastern caribbean, either in March or in summer 2016.  We are most likely not doing it unless seems like good deal and don't have to deal with drunk spring breakers.

I'm not root of good, but I love cruises.  Thing is, I dislike summer cruising (crowded and hot), and the spring break isn't so great either (but we don't have kids and aren't tied to an academic calendar).

Longer cruises don't have as many partiers (avoid 3-4 night during spring break especially).  I avoid Carnival for the same reason.  While our one Disney Cruise was very, very well done, they're just too expensive for us to justify.  Royal Caribbean is our current favorite, and is great if you have kids, especially the Oasis and Allure (HUGE ships with lots of options).  The Voyager class ships are very good, and the Freedom class isn't bad either (but their dining rooms are crowded).  I don't know if the Radiance class sales in the Caribbean anymore, but they seem more sedate (maybe because we've sailed them in Alaska, Panama Canal, and northern Europe).

If you're the type of family to be go! go! go! you can take an inside.  They're small, but generally well laid out.  Tight for 4, but if the kids are small, it might be fine. For me, a window is the minimum (promenade rooms are fun), but as introverts, we really enjoy hanging out on the balcony in the quiet and watching the ocean go by, reading, knitting, having a cocktail, etc.   

Best time to go is in the fall, if you can swing it, although it's hurricane season and your ports might be scrambled.  Really, one port is much like the others in the Caribbean, overrun with tshirt vendors, jewelry stores, and other junk.  At this point, we tend to stay on the ship and enjoy the quiet. 

</threadjack>

I agree with a lot of this. I didn't really care for Disney. My child won't do the kids program, the family areas were too crowded for my taste, and wasn't impressed with the food (reminded me of chain restaurants like Applebees most of the time - it says something when your kids won't eat the pizza or burgers/fries how bad they are). The good foods were rationed (like the sushi). The only thing I liked over the other mass market lines I've been on is I didn't feel the pressure to buy stuff as much as my last trip on RCCL.

I actually prefer the inside rooms. I don't care about the window, and not in my room much, etc. so I don't see the need for the extra cost. I care more about the room location (prefer mid ship) so I don't get the motion or the engine noise.

I usually travel with family who likes to get the larger rooms with balconies. I usually prefer the inside room layouts and find them a little more efficient but keep in mind, unless you get a suite, you're looking at around 200 sq. ft for most cruise ship rooms. The upside is they are laid out well on the newer ships.

[Pigeon]

I love Disney, probably more than my kids. We have to go school vacation weeks as dh is a teacher, which makes it very expensive. Vacation spending is way down my list of spending priorities fortunately, so many years lapse between visits. I'm not a camping kinda woman, and cruises seem yucky to me, although I've never been.

So we will deal with the many price hikes in another five years or so. As long as there are still crowds, Disney can keep jacking up the fees.

[paddedhat]

I think Disney is on a slow decline. Very, very, very slow. So slow it appears that they're actually on an incline.

1. Prices keep going up.

2. Park maintenance is going down. They used to keep everything looking brand-new, now it's common for rides to have known problems (I hear lots of complaints about the Pirates ride).

3. Bigger crowds.

They may be going downhill, but since we have #1 at the same time as #3, it's a very profitable decline.
.
Camp at Fort Wilderness. I've read that some people go there to get their fill of Disney (i.e., don't go to any actual parks). As low as $60/night, it varies with season of course. Plenty of Disney activities; small waterpark/pool area, a dinner show nearby, character dining (unlike most/all other character dining, this one doesn't require park admission), quick transport to Magic Kingdom (one boat ride from Fort Wilderness to Magic Kingdom and back), free parking at the parks (Disney transportation is free, but it can be quicker to just drive), lots of Christmas decorations if you go during November/December, etc.

Your take on Ft. Wilderness describes how we have spent our last dozen Christmases. We have only taken the family to the parks once, in that time frame. Two thoughts on this.  First, if you successfully book a $60 site there, chances are it's at a time where I wouldn't want to be there, like dead of summer. This year it was about $130/night at Christmas, and we booked roughly sixteen months ahead to guarantee availability. Second, the dinner show is the Whoop-de-do Review. It's a neat, but corny, Western dance show that is very expensive. Like the parks, it's nothing we need to repeat very often. There are free "Chip-N-Dale" characters at a free movie, every night, but it's geared toward the young kiddie crowd.

Your thoughts on the decline of the mouse empire are interesting. I have heard it expressed by everybody from Fl. residents and campers that have been regulars at Ft. Wilderness for decades, to a captain of one of the ferry boats that shuttles guest to the Magic Kingdom. My take is that there is nothing further from the truth. Yes, they once had a reputation for being obsessed with maintenance, and keeping everything in tip-top condition, with the vigilance of a military regime. However, that's not the business model for a lot of profitable companies that once held the same beliefs. There are very profitable manufacturers in this country that would shut down for weeks at a time, in years past, to do intensive maintenance. These are the same outfits that are currently running programs of intensive failure analysis, to determine exactly how far they can push every machine in the process before it grenades, and how they can address the impending failure with the least lost production time. Disney is no different. Yea, it chaps the Captain's ass to be piloting a boat that needs a paint job, but painting it also removes the craft from the fleet for a few weeks, and impacts the whole transportation schedule. It would be nice to be perfect, but it's better to be good, and profitable.

 As for the business model being in decline overall? Really? the same Disney that is dropping a Billion dollars, to build a new interstate interchange and spur to get their guest from I-4 into downtown Disney faster and easier? The same company that is dealing with record occupancy rates in their on property hotels? The company that has seen their average guest's income level rise to the point that they are  nearly double the average family income in this country? The same outfit that is now filling guest rooms that retail for over $2K a NIGHT? The same outfit that is currently developing on-site single family homes that start at over a million bucks? Or the same outfit that has had explosive growth of their stock in the last few years?

In the last nearly decade and a half as a steady customer, it had become quite clear to me that they are following the money trail, at the expensive of a lot of guests who have been very loyal. That said, they make no apologies with the path they have chosen, and they have been phenomenally successful at doing so. There are things that have changed over the years that I do not like in the least. But they know that I'm perfectly capable of showing myself the door, and that there is somebody waiting to fill my spot.

[OSUBearCub]

... Yes, they once had a reputation for being obsessed with maintenance, and keeping everything in tip-top condition, with the vigilance of a military regime. However, that's not the business model for a lot of profitable companies that once held the same beliefs. There are very profitable manufacturers in this country that would shut down for weeks at a time, in years past, to do intensive maintenance. These are the same outfits that are currently running programs of intensive failure analysis, to determine exactly how far they can push every machine in the process before it grenades, and how they can address the impending failure with the least lost production time. Disney is no different. Yea, it chaps the Captain's ass to be piloting a boat that needs a paint job, but painting it also removes the craft from the fleet for a few weeks, and impacts the whole transportation schedule. It would be nice to be perfect, but it's better to be good, and profitable.

...

In the last nearly decade and a half as a steady customer, it had become quite clear to me that they are following the money trail, at the expensive of a lot of guests who have been very loyal. That said, they make no apologies with the path they have chosen, and they have been phenomenally successful at doing so. There are things that have changed over the years that I do not like in the least. But they know that I'm perfectly capable of showing myself the door, and that there is somebody waiting to fill my spot.

You make some seriously great points and I want to piggyback on the maintenance issue.  Disney is also battling a decades-long reputation of having a very negative impact on the environment, especially in Central Florida.  By reducing their maintenance to "acceptable" levels they not only improve the profitability of the park but also reduce the consumables (paint, light bulbs, epoxies, product packaging, etc etc etc).  This is one of the many, recent choices that are creating a greener company.

Also, when you're a regular like me (season pass, there at least once a month) it's easy for the fog of "Disney Magic" to dissipate a little.  We see the same attractions and facades over and over.  The family that saved five grand for a once-in-a-lifetime vacation probably wont notice that six bulbs were out in the Disney Boardwalk facade, as they ride a ferry boat (FERRY BOAT! How awesome is that alone?) to the Swan and Dolphin.

Mustachianism provides the room in one's time and budget to do those things he or she finds most valuable.  Are there more mustachian vacation options?  Sure.  Could you spend the same amount and expose your kids to a foreign culture for a week?  Sure.  But ultimately, if you want to take this type of a once-in-a-lifetime trip, you ALSO have 5-7 days - in the middle of clown-car consumerist culture - to reinforce your mustachian values with your kids.  Perhaps there's some hidden value there.

[partgypsy]

Yeah. I'm not hardcore like people on this site, but I let my kids know for both trips I didn't want them bugging me asking for stuff.
For the first WDW trip the oldest brought money she saved for spending, but she forgot her purse at a playground, never returned to lost and found and I was a hard ass saying that should teach her to be more safe with her money and didn't replace it for her (she was only 5!). I did buy each of my kids around a $15 souvenier the last day as a reward for not asking me for anything.

2nd time, since I was afraid of them losing cash I had them each take $50 from their allowance accounts and put them on gift cards to use for spending during the trip. The last day, they both had their full amounts on their cards, so we ran around the hotel store basically forcing them to spend. I felt pretty stupid, in that I should have gotten a card with much less on it, or had them bring cash that they could have chose to spend or not. I also realized kids are not really into disney merchandise as long as they have autograph books, which is the one thing I did buy them for the trip.

 

[I'm a red panda]

I love Disney, probably more than my kids.

This can be read two ways.  I seriously LOLed when I realized I was probably reading it wrong.

[LiveLean]

Annual pass to ALL national parks is $80 + shipping (or $80 at the park). A whole year... to any national park in the US... $80. How good a deal is that?

Do you not have normal kids?  Trust me as a parent of a typical kid, I've gotten mine to 15 different states and 5 different countries to show him nature, culture, wildlife, and a lot of outdoor activities that I enjoy.  He's been a good sport about it but even as he's approaching high school graduation he'd rather go to Disneyland than do another nature thing.  Kids are not the same as old people.

I guess I don't have normal kids because they haven't been taught that the consumerist mecca to all-things anti-mustachian is the place where they should spend their vacations -- even though we live 90 minutes away from Team Rodent in Central Florida. What a shame that all of the "culture, wildlife and a lot of outdoor activities" that you enjoy haven't translated to your offspring. Our kids nag us about a lot of things, but not once have they gotten on us because we don't go to Disney.

Of course, reading this thread and seeing how a MUSTACHIAN crowd continues to blow money on Disney has inspired me to go buy more Disney stock.

[OSUBearCub]

Of course, reading this thread and seeing how a MUSTACHIAN crowd continues to blow money on Disney has inspired me to go buy more Disney stock.

Reading multiple threads on how often the MUSTACHIAN crowd continues to blow money on home gym equipment, crock pots, and LED light bulbs has inspired me to make some stock purchase decisions of my own. Lol

You don't have to like Disney to respect the fact that Orlando/Central Florida would be a rural extension of Tampa without the mouse.  Orlando wouldn't be a place people like me move to for a job. (And I don't work for Disney or a company that directly benefits in any way from Disney.)

[Bob W]

I once went to a speech given by a former marketing guy from Disney.   It was weird in that most visitors are adults (seniors a lot) and the number one reason people visit the park was "cleanliness."     Think about that --- People are willing to pay big bucks to be in a place they perceive of as clean.   Not the rides or shows but the fact that people are running around sweeping up trash on the ground. 

I think it must also be a class thingy.   When you are at DW you can be pretty sure most all the people there are employed and have money or credit.  Compared to the village I live in it is a very safe place.   Probably very few murders,  rapes,  armed robberies,  drug deals,  child abductions,  prostitutes, meth houses occur at Disney.

(I looked here and there were a few incidents apparently but none of the above mentioned - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_at_Walt_Disney_World) 

Considering an average daily population of 75K (guests/staff)  Disney must be one of the safest places in the world.   I saw 4 deaths mentioned over an 8 year period.  That is what?  a death rate of less than 1 in 100,000 per year?   

There are no wars at DW.  There are not political advertisements.   There are strangely only two religious services offered per year http://www.chipandco.com/church-services-at-walt-disney-world-is-there-such-a-thing-23263/.     Drunkenness and recreational drug use are apparently frowned upon there. 

There is oddly also no police patrol of the park there, although county sheriffs do respond to calls.  I haven't been in a couple of decades but we lucked out when we went in February one year on the spur of the moment.   There were virtually no lines.   It was the 25th anniversary year and the had the castle decorated like a big candy castle. 

Could it be that people are just willing to pay to be in such a safe and clean environment far away from all the shit in the world? 

(to answer the question more specifically --- I think they have out priced themselves for many people and that is probably a good thing as high prices tend to keep out the riff raft.   For me personally, that is too rich for my blood,  but since I am now playing the mileage game,  I can see gaming the system for free flights and accommodations and spending the $1600 to take my family of 4 for 4 days.  Oh wait,  did I just say that?!   Fuck no!  I'm not paying $400 a day to stand in line.  I don't care how clean and safe it is!)   

[partgypsy]

Bob I don't know how much police presence they have, but they def have security staff, and some are dressed are "regular folks" (hawaian shirts, etc). They really do keep an eye on things, to extent hearing the story of someone at epcot acting up because of too many drinks, and the person being whisked away by plain clothes employees. We had a scare where my oldest (who yes can be space case) was not keeping up with us and was lost basically between Japan and Germany, where we were going to eat. We just had to go up to an employee and we were soon met with by a walkie talkie employee, who basically were talking to other employees on walkie-talkies and she was soon located.  So I'm sure that feeling of safety, is a big plus to to many, including me. 
When I went I wasn't bothered by the lines but then again I kind of planned it like a military campaign so we got fast passes and then would go on other rides. The longest lines were for autographs (the one for Brave was crazy!) so that would be the one thing I would xnay if I was going again.

[charis]

We just got back from a five day stay (should have been six but our original flight was cancelled due to weather).  It didn't cost me anything - paid for everything with credit card points from the 3-day tickets/flights/rentals car/accommodations (rented timeshare villa points off-site)/gas/meals (including pricey character meals that my kids loved)/groceries/parking.  I planned the trip a year in advance and churned up a Disney vacation.  We will go back in 4 years (probably), when my youngest is five, and I planning on paying for it the same way.   

[Gin1984]

I think Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure is a lot more fun and I can get free tickets using AMEX reward points.

What AMEX do you use for this?

[Bob W]

We just got back from a five day stay (should have been six but our original flight was cancelled due to weather).  It didn't cost me anything - paid for everything with credit card points from the 3-day tickets/flights/rentals car/accommodations (rented timeshare villa points off-site)/gas/meals (including pricey character meals that my kids loved)/groceries/parking.  I planned the trip a year in advance and churned up a Disney vacation.  We will go back in 4 years (probably), when my youngest is five, and I planning on paying for it the same way.

.       That is amazing. Anyway you could detail that for us amatures?   I think many of us would like to do that.

[Trimatty471]

For me they have!

[Eludia]

I've always thought Disney was overpriced for what you get (long lines, expensive foods, etc) but I do enjoy going to Epcot every 5 years or so.  Even so I know a lot of average Americans who view Disney as the vacation place to aspire to, but I wonder if Disney is finally out of reach for them.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/disney-hikes-ticket-prices-us-220755393.html

Nope.  They are seeing record crowds.  As an annual passholder I can confirm its packed as hell whenever we go.

I forget the exact quote in their financial statements, but it was basically - we're going to keep raising prices until growth in visitors stops. 

Edit: Also, please realize that $105 for 1 day is literally the stupidest option available.  5 day tickets cost about $300, 10 day I think about $400.  Our annual passes are something like $500 as we get the top of the line ones because we go so often.  They include free parking, free water parks, etc.  Its a really good deal if you're local enough to go often.

[kvaruni]

Also, please realize that $105 for 1 day is literally the stupidest option available.

Spot-on.

I like Disney, but I simply admire their research. Most of that research is in economics and just tries to answer the question how you can wring the most money out of every visitor. People going for just one day aren't very profitable (with their home-made sandwiches and all) and aren't even the main audience for WDW. I'm living in the UK, and a lot of UK people are Disney fanatics. They even have special tickets for us UKers. 21 days comes in at only $20 a day per person (park hopper, water parks ... the whole package). And it is rather obvious why: taking sandwiches from the UK will be frowned upon by US customs, and they might go a bit stale by the end of your visit. So you will have to eat in the parks (and the food, if you know where to look, is excellent and sometimes even good value). You'll also have plenty of time to do the rides, so you will use the FastPass system for what it is really designed: to spend more money while you are waiting. Add some pin trading, some magic band decoration, some PhotoPass fun ... . The majority of people will experience all these perks as amazing fun, and Disney experiences their visitors spending huge wads of cash as amazing fun. It is a win-win, and for me it is the epitome of a good holiday. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I just can't stand anymore nature or culture during my holidays :).

[queenie]

I've been to Disney once, when I was about 10 or 11.  My parents drove us there from Ontario, Canada.  Nine of us in a 7 seater mini van with no A/C (this was pre-seatbelt laws, I guess?).  We had fun, and I guess it has been in the back of my mind that someday I would do the same for my kids.  DH and I have talked about it, and we had figured it would probably cost $5k or more, even staying off-site, for our family of 6 to drive there and stay for a week.

The older I'm getting, the less it seems like a good idea.  DH mentioned the other day that he's not as keen on it anymore either.  Would the kids have just as much fun going to Wonderland in Toronto for a couple hundred dollars?  Probably, really.  They wouldn't have anything to compare it to anyway.

I am curious about the cruises though.  And going overseas.  DH and I have never been on any trips (outside of driving to the East Coast and staying with family once.)  Sometimes I think about travelling and I think that I would like it.

[MayDay]

I think if you do a Disney cruise, you can add on a day at Disney for pretty cheap, right?  That might be an option. 

My mom swears she is going to take the kids.  Not clear if h and I are invited ;). I keep telling her she doesn't have to spend a fortune on a fancy vacation.  But it is on her bucket list, as my parents didn't have the money to take my siblings and I until we were old enough that we didn't even want to go. 

The thing is, other than Frozen, my kids don't really have a clue what Disney even is.  They haven't seen any if the movies and they don't know the characters.  So I'm not sure exactly how much they'll like it.  I'm guessing they'd have just as much fun staying at a hotel with a fancy pool and swimming every day. 

[charis]

We just got back from a five day stay (should have been six but our original flight was cancelled due to weather).  It didn't cost me anything - paid for everything with credit card points from the 3-day tickets/flights/rentals car/accommodations (rented timeshare villa points off-site)/gas/meals (including pricey character meals that my kids loved)/groceries/parking.  I planned the trip a year in advance and churned up a Disney vacation.  We will go back in 4 years (probably), when my youngest is five, and I planning on paying for it the same way.

.       That is amazing. Anyway you could detail that for us amatures?   I think many of us would like to do that.

I should say that our biggest money saver as a family of 4 was paying for only 3 people (which lots of people can't do) because our son was 18 months.  So his flight was free, entrance to the park was free, and he ate for free at Disney buffets (they generally expensive, but were cost effective for us).  Second biggest thing was racking up a ton of credit card points/miles bonuses in the 18 months prior to the trip (in addition to the ones we already had), with Southwest (flights), Barclaycard, Chase Sapphire, and CapOne.  We cut the price on accommodations by renting an off-site resort timeshare from an owner, which had a kitchen so we didn't eat out the whole time. 

We only went for 6 days (3-day park passes), not 10 days+ like lots of people, because our resort was great for kids anyway.  We spent less on tickets and less money in the parks. Yes, the daily rate on tickets drops when you buy more days, so most people buy more expensive tickets for what they perceive is a better deal.  The genius of Disney!  Once people sign on for more days in the park, they are, by and large, spending more money - on parking, snack foods, expensive meals, souvenirs, etc.

The rates can keep going up, but the crowds will come because Disney will keep feeding them discounts, packages, and "free" dining.  Disney wouldn't offer anything that isn't still making them a butt-load of money.

[Bob W]

We just got back from a five day stay (should have been six but our original flight was cancelled due to weather).  It didn't cost me anything - paid for everything with credit card points from the 3-day tickets/flights/rentals car/accommodations (rented timeshare villa points off-site)/gas/meals (including pricey character meals that my kids loved)/groceries/parking.  I planned the trip a year in advance and churned up a Disney vacation.  We will go back in 4 years (probably), when my youngest is five, and I planning on paying for it the same way.

.       That is amazing. Anyway you could detail that for us amatures?   I think many of us would like to do that.

I should say that our biggest money saver as a family of 4 was paying for only 3 people (which lots of people can't do) because our son was 18 months.  So his flight was free, entrance to the park was free, and he ate for free at Disney buffets (they generally expensive, but were cost effective for us).  Second biggest thing was racking up a ton of credit card points/miles bonuses in the 18 months prior to the trip (in addition to the ones we already had), with Southwest (flights), Barclaycard, Chase Sapphire, and CapOne.  We cut the price on accommodations by renting an off-site resort timeshare from an owner, which had a kitchen so we didn't eat out the whole time. 

We only went for 6 days (3-day park passes), not 10 days+ like lots of people, because our resort was great for kids anyway.  We spent less on tickets and less money in the parks. Yes, the daily rate on tickets drops when you buy more days, so most people buy more expensive tickets for what they perceive is a better deal.  The genius of Disney!  Once people sign on for more days in the park, they are, by and large, spending more money - on parking, snack foods, expensive meals, souvenirs, etc.

The rates can keep going up, but the crowds will come because Disney will keep feeding them discounts, packages, and "free" dining.  Disney wouldn't offer anything that isn't still making them a butt-load of money.

Thanks for that!   Could you be more specific on the free park passes?   Was this a Barclays deal or is there some super secret way to earn points specific to Disney park passes?

[OSUBearCub]

They are seeing record crowds.  As an annual passholder I can confirm its packed as hell whenever we go.

I'll double confirm.  I was just at Disney Hollywood Studios on Monday.  As evidence, I'd like to note that the entire 6900 seat Hollywood Hills Amphitheater was packed for the 7pm show of Fantasmic at the end of the day.  And not everyone who comes to the park ends their day with the show.

That's more than seven thousand guests at the second-smallest of the four parks on a Monday.

[queenie]

That's a totally excellent point, MayDay.  My kids don't really "know" Disney the way that we did when we were growing up.  They haven't even seen Frozen, and very very few of the other Disney movies.  I'm definitely romanticizing this idea based on my own childhood.

That's interesting about the Disney Cruise add-on though.  Something to look into should we ever decide that we do want to do a Disney something.

[charis]

Thanks for that!   Could you be more specific on the free park passes?   Was this a Barclays deal or is there some super secret way to earn points specific to Disney park passes?

I purchased the tickets with my Cap1 credit card from the Undercover Tourist website (using a discount link from the mousesavers.com newsletter sent to subscribers [free]).  I then redeemed my rewards miles to "erase" the purchase.  I assume you could do the same with the Barclaycard - a ticket purchase from undercover tourist should appear as a travel expense as it does with Cap1.  Plus you earn miles for making the purchase. e.g., I didn't have enough miles to cover the tickets until after I bought them.

[UnleashHell]

I live about a 90 minute ride from the house of mouse. I think its great. Anytime my kids misbehave I threaten to take them to Disney for a day. Works a treat….

[MandalayVA]

The thing is, other than Frozen, my kids don't really have a clue what Disney even is.  They haven't seen any if the movies and they don't know the characters.  So I'm not sure exactly how much they'll like it.  I'm guessing they'd have just as much fun staying at a hotel with a fancy pool and swimming every day.

Disney does evolve with the times--any princess in a movie shows up when the movie's released, so if you have kids into "Frozen" they'll be stoked to see Elsa and Anna (and there's going to be a "Frozen" ride at Epcot in the fall).  My down-the-street neighbor took her six-year-old granddaughter to Disney World last year.  Like your kids, she was only familiar with "Frozen" and "Brave."  My neighbor said that when they entered the Magic Kingdom she thought the kid's head was going to explode, she got so excited--and she hadn't even seen princesses yet.  There are a ton of rides at all the parks that have nothing to do with Disney movies.  Just tell your mother-in-law not to be a Disney Commando--those are the people that basically race through the parks trying to do everything in the shortest possible time; you can always tell them by exhausted adults and whiny kids--and your kids should have a great time.

[Pigeon]

The thing is, other than Frozen, my kids don't really have a clue what Disney even is.  They haven't seen any if the movies and they don't know the characters.  So I'm not sure exactly how much they'll like it.  I'm guessing they'd have just as much fun staying at a hotel with a fancy pool and swimming every day.

Disney does evolve with the times--any princess in a movie shows up when the movie's released, so if you have kids into "Frozen" they'll be stoked to see Elsa and Anna (and there's going to be a "Frozen" ride at Epcot in the fall).  My down-the-street neighbor took her six-year-old granddaughter to Disney World last year.  Like your kids, she was only familiar with "Frozen" and "Brave."  My neighbor said that when they entered the Magic Kingdom she thought the kid's head was going to explode, she got so excited--and she hadn't even seen princesses yet.  There are a ton of rides at all the parks that have nothing to do with Disney movies.  Just tell your mother-in-law not to be a Disney Commando--those are the people that basically race through the parks trying to do everything in the shortest possible time; you can always tell them by exhausted adults and whiny kids--and your kids should have a great time.

Meh, I guess I'd be a Disney commando.  The first time we went, we didn't do a lot of planning.  I had gotten a copy of the Unofficial Guide, but something in my heart balked at needing to do a lot of planning for a vacation.  We sort of meandered around and went to what attractions interested us as we came to them.  At the end of the day, we were exhausted, had spent tons of  time waiting in lines and hadn't seen nearly as much as we'd anticipated.

The second time, a few years later, we followed the plans in the Unofficial Guide.  We were there at rope drop, had a course of action, and at the end of the day we were exhausted, had spent little time waiting in lines and did so much more. 

It's not a relaxing vacation any way you look at it, if you are in the parks most of the day.  It was much more satisfying and fun for all of us, kids included, to follow a plan and actually get to do more stuff.

[Bob W]

I totally forgot to mention that we took our girls when the were 4 and 6 years old.  They have absolutely no memory of it although I do.  And talk about exhaustion.  We had bought 4 day passes.  After the 3rd day the girls and I begged the wife not to make us go back again.   

It was many years ago.   It was in February.   It rained a couple of days so it wasn't crowded.  From what I'm hearing on this thread I'd be paying $1,200 to mainly stand in line and be miserable.   

[charis]

We went this February with 4 and 1.5 year olds.  The longest line we  waited in was probably 10 minutes.  We made use of fastpasses, child swap, and arriving first thing in the morning. We went back to the hotel in the middle of the day to rest and hit the parks in the evening for a couple of hours.  It was a holiday week but much less crowded in the mornings than I was anticipating.  Noon to 5 was probably the most crowded.