More people die when in the presence and under the care of doctors because more people go to doctors when they are sick.
Correlation does not imply causation.
+1
-1
Please see above
Every 3 weeks or so we pull a whole chicken out of our freezer and cook it. (that we buy from a local farmer who let's the chickens run around like a chicken should)
Every 3 weeks or so we buy a pound of fish from the store and make a meal out of it.
Every 3 weeks or so we have meat in some random other way.
We buy milk for the kids, and we all eat other dairy products.
Other that that, it's all fruits/veggies/grains/etc.
I'm happy with our balance.
Happy the balance works for you! I would suggest reading more on the potential concerns with dairy products though. The potential link to type1 diabetes is quite scary (don't take dairy while on antibiotics...)
I thought the bit about doctors was tongue in cheek, but who knows. I saw a great ted talk about what the paleothic people (think paleo diet) actually ate. It turns out that scientists assumed that paleolithic people ate a lot of meat because there were a lot of bones in the caves. But after examining the teeth of cave people scientists saw that they rarely ate meat, it's just that bones last longer in the fossil record.
What they ate depended on where they lived.
North and South Americans ate a corn based diet.
Europeans ate a barley and potato based diet
Asian people a rice based diet etc.
And just because we can eat meat doesn't mean we should. Despite popular belief the ted talk went on to say that human bodies aren't adapted to eating meat. Our intestines are longer than carnivores in order extract more nutrients from vegetables, and our teeth are for grinding vegetables, we don't have long canines for tearing meat off the bone. Whenever I hear someone say that humans adapted to eating meat I want to ask them if they can tear raw meat off a bone with their teeth which would be very impressive.
I agree with a previous poster that we don't have to stop eating meat entirely. But a few times a year rather than several times a day would go a long way towards cleaning up the environment (animal waste and methane) and improving our health.
And personally I have a big problem with dairy milk. Keeping a cow pregnant year round so she can provide milk seems unethical to me.
99% agree! Significantly reducing intake does give you most of the benefits.
Not to mention the pesticides in milk from spraying down cows with it...
I do want to keep it objective and not get too much into the ethics thing. But since you brought it up, what about the ethics of killing an animal for its meat. Or baby chicks being ground alive because they aren't useful?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkphooryVyQIf nothing else, someone who chooses to eat meat should spend a day at a slaughterhouse, then see how they feel about the moral choice.
https://chriskresser.com/rest-in-peace-china-study/
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.htmlThere are just as many resources saying the Paleo diet is a sustainable and healthy diet as you can point to about your opinion that a vegetarian diet is better. But yours is just an opinion and you are apparently passionate about it. But it is still an opinion and it offends me that you proclaim it to be absolutely the truth. The US government thrust low fat - high carb diets on us as "healthy" for years - and now it turns out that is not the case. We have been eating plants and animals since the beginning of time. It is healthy to continue doing so. I'm not going to put 100 references below this. Why? Because you can Google it yourself.
Just as many does not mean just as credible. This is the false balance that gives us climate change deniers, a 50 year delay on admitting that cigarettes cause lung cancer, and other such niceties. I recommend the book/movie "Merchants of Doubt"
My rough summary on this is:
- Plant based backers: tend to be primary sources with decades of experience in research, or clinical practice.
- Paleo backers: tend to not be doing any active research in the field, and primarily interested in selling their books.
Oh, and they also exercised a hell of a lot more than we all did - if you really want to get into those details.
And by the way, I CAN tear the meat off a bone with my canines. Just watch me eat a T-bone rare :p
Agree that activity level plays a role in overall health. Although improved diet seems to have about 2x the health power compared to more exercise - at least for cancer suppression.
Please post a video of yourself chewing the leg off of a live cow. Not a steak that was helpfully sliced off for you with some nice modern steel. ;)
We just watched Forks Over Knives and I thought about starting a thread about it.
We're not vegetarian/vegan by any means but we are eating more meatless meals. The movie just motivated us even more. Better for health, better for environment, better for wallet.
Cool! Best of luck in your journey. The rabbit hole goes quite deep, and credible sources are few and far between.
I highly recommend the sequel to Forks over Knives called PlantPure Nation. There's also another film in the same vein from 2016 called "Food Choices"
Paleolithic hominids were hunter-gatherers who lived until the age of 30 to 40. You'll excuse me if I don't base my medical and dietary choices on their "expertise".
That would be a valid argument if there hadn't been any advances in medicine in the past 10,000 years.
That was actually part of my argument - science, medicine, and health, have all greatly advanced in the past 10,000 years. Our understanding of basic biology has come a long way. And it's partially why I don't understand why we're so hell-bent on recreating what we believe to be an ancient diet, when there's been so much advancement since then.
On this, highly recommend T Colin Campbell's other book called "Whole". It will certainly make you think twice about modern medicine when it comes to
chronic or lifestyle related conditions.
Yup yup. Vegan for 18 years, since way before it was cool. Never had any issues, always loved the food and how it makes me feel. Apparently it saves me money, but I wouldn't know, since I was vegan way before I started grocery shopping. Eating dead bodies and bodily fluids just stopped appealing to me once I realized how those things worked as a pre-teen, and I never went back.
Yup yup! It's very interesting to think about the collective mental block that we have created - not ever thinking twice about the slowly decaying chunk of dead flesh in the fridge. Contrast with "live" fruits and veggies.
Eating life > eating death.
And by the way, I CAN tear the meat off a bone with my canines. Just watch me eat a T-bone rare :p
You got video?
People (really just North Americans) get upset when they think you are trying to take their meat away. But as a mustachian it's important to examine how you live your life and let go of things that don't bring value to your life. I believe that eating meat not only doesn't bring value but actively harms humans and the environment. Because so many people have challenged my assumptions on this forum and helped me grow as a person, I hope I can do the same for others.
Yes yes a million times this! The only reason I got up on the soapbox on this particular forum, is this seems like the place where people capable of challenging their assumptions would be gathered. I guess we'll test that theory based on how badly I get beat up in this thread ;)
3. And in terms of meat eating, our physiology and biological evolution supports the theory that not only CAN we eat meat, but we may not even have become human in our present form had we not incorporated it into the diet. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7595/full/nature16990.html
I'm sorry, I didn't watch the youtube video, and I don't have access to the NY Times article (I already busted my max number of free articles for this month).
But in general, peer-reviewed scientific studies or it didn't happen :p
P.S. I don't want to get into more of an argument on this fantastic forum. Can we just agree to disagree - and what happens among consenting, knowledgable adults, be it a choice in diet, or other, is fine by me.
Any paper that measures "5% decrease in the number of chews per year" is all right in my book! LOL But going to the previous point above - anatomically capable doesn't equate to optimal or ideal. We are also anatomically capable of snorting cocaine or jumping off cliffs, but to the best of my knowledge both of those are bad ideas.
No no! Please keep the argument going. I think this is the perfect place and really happy to see >1500 views on this thread already. I'll leave you with a quote from Aristotle, who would have surely hung out on the MMM forum if he lived in our time:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.