Hacks for Total Rewards program Vegas? anyone?

[Bob W]

We will be getting into the credit card/miles/hotel game this year and one of our target destinations is Vegas.

I won't gamble but will like to attend shows and have some night life.  (that and just be away from home and the kids)

So anyone have some good hacks through the Total Rewards program or anything else.   Our ideal trip would be free flights via southwest air,  2-3 nights free or nearly free hotels (nice ones),  some free or discounted good show tickets and perhaps a buffet or two.   I've briefly looked at the Total Rewards program but it seems overly complicated and looks like they generally want you to spend lots of money to earn a few points. 

While we are at it --- Could someone comment on the shows that are really good and really worth the ticket price.   We will probably do this 2 times a year.

Thanks to all ---

[DoubleDown]

I know you said you won't gamble, but in my mind that is pretty much the ultimate Vegas hack. You gamble, you get comped for all those things you mentioned you'd like to do (nice rooms, shows, meals, etc.). Gambling, of course, is generally a losing proposition for the player. But certain games can be won through skill, like poker or card counting in blackjack. Even on the rare occasions where I didn't win much money gambling, I've always at least had all or the majority of my expenses covered through comps.

So, if you consider learning and practicing this skill, it actually gives you a way to make money, have fun doing it, and get your expenses paid while doing it. Plus you get the satisfaction of getting one over on the casino, free drinks, and the skill allows you to play a long time thereby earning more comps.

[Psychstache]

We will be getting into the credit card/miles/hotel game this year and one of our target destinations is Vegas.

I won't gamble but will like to attend shows and have some night life.  (that and just be away from home and the kids)

So anyone have some good hacks through the Total Rewards program or anything else.   Our ideal trip would be free flights via southwest air, 2-3 nights free or nearly free hotels (nice ones) ,  some free or discounted good show tickets and perhaps a buffet or two.   I've briefly looked at the Total Rewards program but it seems overly complicated and looks like they generally want you to spend lots of money to earn a few points. 

While we are at it --- Could someone comment on the shows that are really good and really worth the ticket price.   We will probably do this 2 times a year.

Thanks to all ---

For $89, you can get the Chase Hyatt Card, which will get you 2 free nights at any Hyatt property, which includes some of the nicer spots on the Strip. If you have other Chase Ultimate Reward points, you can transfer them to the Hyatt reward program to get a 3rd night if needed.

[Bob W]

I know you said you won't gamble, but in my mind that is pretty much the ultimate Vegas hack. You gamble, you get comped for all those things you mentioned you'd like to do (nice rooms, shows, meals, etc.). Gambling, of course, is generally a losing proposition for the player. But certain games can be won through skill, like poker or card counting in blackjack. Even on the rare occasions where I didn't win much money gambling, I've always at least had all or the majority of my expenses covered through comps.

So, if you consider learning and practicing this skill, it actually gives you a way to make money, have fun doing it, and get your expenses paid while doing it. Plus you get the satisfaction of getting one over on the casino, free drinks, and the skill allows you to play a long time thereby earning more comps.

 I have read the card counting books and while they are fascinating the math I ran showed it would pretty much be a full time job to make any money at it unless you are using a partner system.   (I'm definitely no good at Texas Hold Em)

Still I hadn't considered the comp issue.   Perhaps I should dust off those counting books.   So lets see,  if I spend 7 hours at $6000 per hour and end up breaking even at black jack I might have as much as 40K go towards comp points.   What is that like $400?   

And really when you think about it I'll have plenty of down time while there anyway.    I'll put that under consideration.   I do know how to count,  just don't think I'll like counting for hours at a time. 

[shotgunwilly]

First... Poker is the best way to make money at a casino. You play against other people and can use skill.  But comps are next to nothing on Poker. It's usually like $1 an hour of playing. Card counting at blackjack CAN make you money, but even doing that just gives you a very slight edge over the casino in the long run. Playing by the book gives the casino a slight edge in the long run, so technically you could play by the book and possibly break even after winning some comps.

For what you're trying to do... I don't recommend either. 

Use the southwest flights like you planned. Hotels in Vegas are actually fairly cheap (compared to similar starred hotels elsewhere), because they want to get you there.  If you want to cover those costs use something like the Barclaycard World Arrival signup bonus which will reimburse you for about $440 worth of travel expenses.

I would not waste the 2 free nights from the Hyatt Visa on hotels in Vegas.  You won't be getting a very good value for your free nights IMO.  I would use them for something more exotic or luxurious and pricey.   

[MoneyCat]

Try signing up for Social Rewards and you can earn free comps for posting stuff on FB, Twitter, and Instagram for Total Rewards hotels.  I've had two nearly free vacations using that program and the TR Visa card so far.  Now I'm saving up for another nearly free vacation to Vegas for this summer.

[UnleashHell]

Cheaper vegas..
Simple – learn some optimum games and play them at low levels.
Pai-gow and blackjack are pretty good in that the house edge is very low and you can survive far longer with your stake.

Look into staying downtown – at least on the Friday and Saturday nights. Track the rates as far out as you can and when you see a rate ou are happy with then book it. Downtown will be far cheaper than the strip. You can easily get between downtown and the strip by using public transport – the SDX is an express bus to and from the strip – the duce is a double decker that gives you an excellent view as you travel… but it stops everywhere and after about 11am it takes forever!! The wax bus is a couple of stops from downtown to NYNY – very handy and cheap.  It also runs to the airport so you can save there.
Get a bus pass – you can have unlimited travel on the bus for only a few bucks a day. Check out happy hour specials – same food but way cheaper.

Go look at a specialist site – vegasmessageboard is a good one and has a “frugal” subforum. Right up your street.

I’ll be going next week and using the wax from the airport to downtown. Takes about 10 minutes longer but is about $35 cheaper!!

BTW same casinos will not rate you under a certain limit  -so you get nothing in comps. Downtown somewhere like binions does – I’ll often play there and get a meal a day comped just via playing. Also look into joining the players clubs – new member often get excellent discounts and offers.

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Yeah, poker gives you maybe $1 an hour in comps, but the Tier points in the player's club (be it Total Rewards, MLife, whatever) rack up at a very slow rate.  I've never received good room offers for being a poker player.  Maybe $20 off per night. 

Though last year I switched my local play to a different casino system.  They do not have a property in Vegas so they have an agreement with the MGM player's club (MLife).  For anyone who makes it to the Preferred tier level (15,000 points - takes 750 hours of poker to reach those points), you get three free nights at either MGM, Mandalay Bay, or Mirage + $100 in free slot play and $50/day in food comps.   So, I'm heading out to Vegas for five nights next week.  Have a free Southwest flight from a CC bonus.  So, I'm only paying for two nights at Flamingo and two days worth of food, plus taxis to and from the airport and misc tips. 

MGM probably isn't going to like it that I don't give them any action besides the free play and poker play.  I actually might give them some Video Poker or Video Black as I am going back in November and want to get discount offers sent to me.  I'll have to see how well I do at poker.  Currently up $5200 for the year (157 hours of play).

[Dimitri]

I know you said you won't gamble, but in my mind that is pretty much the ultimate Vegas hack. You gamble, you get comped for all those things you mentioned you'd like to do (nice rooms, shows, meals, etc.). Gambling, of course, is generally a losing proposition for the player. But certain games can be won through skill, like poker or card counting in blackjack. Even on the rare occasions where I didn't win much money gambling, I've always at least had all or the majority of my expenses covered through comps.

So, if you consider learning and practicing this skill, it actually gives you a way to make money, have fun doing it, and get your expenses paid while doing it. Plus you get the satisfaction of getting one over on the casino, free drinks, and the skill allows you to play a long time thereby earning more comps.

 I have read the card counting books and while they are fascinating the math I ran showed it would pretty much be a full time job to make any money at it unless you are using a partner system.   (I'm definitely no good at Texas Hold Em)

Still I hadn't considered the comp issue.   Perhaps I should dust off those counting books.   So lets see,  if I spend 7 hours at $6000 per hour and end up breaking even at black jack I might have as much as 40K go towards comp points.   What is that like $400?   

And really when you think about it I'll have plenty of down time while there anyway.    I'll put that under consideration.   I do know how to count,  just don't think I'll like counting for hours at a time.

Forget counting.  60 hands/hr @ $100 and you have your $6K/hr wager.  But that is flat betting.  Flat betting doesn't win money (or even break even for that matter).  So let's say you step it up with the count (as you must).  The floor will notice and so will the eye in the sky.  You can count.  So can the eye in the sky.  In fact they will.  Right along with you.  On a computer.  The next thing you will be counting is spots on the dice.  Someone in a nice suit will have a chat with you, let you know that they appreciate your play but you are too good.  Enjoy dice and roulette. 

Seriously, I've been in this game for a couple of decades.  The house is always very happy to comp.  But realize that a comp is only a rebate of a percentage of your theoretical losses.  There will be days when you win (and are comped) but only because the house has the advantage of time.  The house doesn't care if you win or lose - you just have to give action.  Because in the long run the house will win.  You can bet on it.

Now, if I was on vacation and wanted to get ahead the one thing I would be looking for is timeshare reps.  You can find them working at resorts up and down the Strip.  Have an out of state license and a couple of hours tomorrow?  Tickets to shows are yours.  Don't want tickets?  Then how about some free play on the tables?  (Hint -- the tickets are a better deal to you - take them.)  Just remember the words of Nancy Reagan, "Just say no."  You will still get the tickets.  One show I particularly enjoyed was Ka the the MGM.  Don't overthink it.  In fact, I'm still not sure what it was about.  Just let it wash over you and you will have a good time.

If you like to eat (and can eat a lot) you may want to look into Caesars' Buffet of Buffets https://www.caesars.com/las-vegas/buffet-of-buffets.  You may not eat for 24 hours afterwards but it will be an epic experience.  With regards to beverages - if you aren't gambling be aware that casino bars are for the most part a total rip-off.  I won't pay $6 for a beer.  For that price I want a six pack.  Either play the penny or nickle slots and get a drink from the cocktail server or stop at a liquor store (or grocery) and bring your own. 

The comments on downtown are spot on.  It is a better value on the weekends.  Personally I dislike the owner of Binion's and wouldn't stay there if you paid me (or the Four Queens which he owns too).  The Golden Nugget is a Strip quality hotel located downtown.  But no matter which property you choose you will almost certainly save money versus the Strip.

With respect to transportation you may be able to get a really good deal on a rental car (especially if you don't mind something in the Toyota Yaris size).  If you do then considering that parking is free you may come out ahead versus taxis, shuttles, monorail, and buses.  I would check to see if it is a viable option.  The only problem with having a car is drinks are complimentary (if you are playing).  Anyway, something for your consideration.

[Dimitri]

... MGM probably isn't going to like it that I don't give them any action besides the free play and poker play.  I actually might give them some Video Poker or Video Black as I am going back in November and want to get discount offers sent to me.  I'll have to see how well I do at poker.  Currently up $5200 for the year (157 hours of play).

You probably already know, but the Bellagio (a MGM property) will likely have the best games spread. Good luck!

[shadowmoss]

You can get the Total Rewards Visa and it makes you a Platinum member (second tier).  That alone should get you some comps.  Play the facebook games, as mentioned.  I don't have a facebook account, but I play their other slot game (slotomania?  I have it bookmarked and don't type it anymore) and I'm rigged into the social rewards thing.  Because I don't FB and don't buy credits it does nothing for my rewards but I don't really need it at this point.  You can use the reward points to pay for food (the buffet of buffets is a bit over $50 for 24 hours of access to all their buffets).  If you are Platinum you should get Ceasers/Harrah's properties for around $35/night even if you aren't comped for free.  Myself, I get comped 3 free nights/month and have more rewards credits than I can use.  I also get free shows.  I am also trying this year to cut back on my gambling. 

If you live near a Harrah's casino outside of Vegas they will usually have promotions where you get extra reward credits.  And, right now they have a promotion that any tier credits will be comped half again (give you 50% of what you have already free) at the end of March.  The difference between tier credits and reward credits is best explained on their website, but tier credits reset every year and determine your level (gold, platinum, diamond, etc.) and rewards credits you can spend like money and they carry over as long as you don't go over 6 months with no activity.

There is a new casino, not aflilated with Ceasers/Harrahs, down by Circus Circus called SLS.  It is where the Sahara used to be.  They randomly sent me a letter not long after they opened and gave me 3 nights free, and have again offered me 3 nights a month for the next 3 months.  Did I mention that I might need to cut back on my gambling... ?  You could call them an ask if they would comp you?  Worth a call anyway. 

Any other questions? 

[Bob W]

Thanks for the ideas everyone. 

[fartface]

DH and I have done Vegas annually and quite inexpensively since 2009.

If you want to do it right, join LVA (Las Vegas Advisor). I paid the $40 membership (there's also a free side but it's not as good) and there is a forum with locals and absolute pros who blog about how to get the Freebies.

The $40 membership (I buy one for me + one for DH) includes a LVA a 'coupon' book that's mailed to you with food, entertainment, hotel and gambling savings. We also purchase one American Casino Guide each. I usually get those on Amazon. Last year I spent $94 on the coupon books and yielded about $700 in return...so it's a worthwhile investment for me. We also participated in the hacks shared above (each applied for a Total Rewards Credit Card, play MyVegas, etc).

When I share my 'coupon run' strategies with people they just roll their eyes. It's not what they want from Vegas. You have to visit about 30 different casinos to get your $$$'s worth. We enjoy it though. Moving around --using Vegas public transit and walking about 8 miles per day. I find it invigorating. DON'T rent a car if you go. The LVA forum has a whole thread dedicated to transportation and the public transportation/free casino shuttles will get you anywhere you need to go.

Laying by a pool sipping sugary $18 drinks is not my idea of fun. We guzzle free, premium bottled beers at all the casino's we visit while playing through the coupons and free-play.

In the end, we usually end up spending 5-6 nights in Vegas.

Last summer, our cost breakdown was:
Roundtrip airfare (from DEN)= $300; 5 nights Hotel=$73; Coupon books $94; food $45; tipping ~$100

After churning through all the coupons we came out +$340 on gambling winnings which funds our somewhat generous tipping habits, minimal food costs, hotel, and the coupon books. 

Oh, and the best part, we keep tallies (on our phones) of the number of free beer we drink throughout the day. Last year = 108 FREE BEERS.

Good luck and let us know how your trip went!

[Catbert]

Sign up for the Southwest Rapid Rewards card and pay the $99 fee (not waived).  Spend $2000 in 3 months and get 50,000 points.  It's very easy to check prices and book on the Southwest website.  Just select show cost in "points" rather than "$$" to see how far 50,000 points will get you.  The credit the bonus points very quickly - as soon as the billing cycle closes where you have spent $2000.  I got the points before I got the hard copy bill.

[MoneyCat]

It's important to keep in mind that while gambling resorts are fun places to go on vacation, gambling is still the most anti-mustachian activity in existence.  You are literally throwing money away for nothing when you participate in it.  The goal should be to get all the comps and perks of a gambler, while not actually doing any gambling.  At least, that's how I always do it.  Then, the money that would have been spent on gambling can be put into investments instead.

[mak1277]

You are literally throwing money away for nothing when you participate in it.

I'm not going to argue that gambling isn't un-mustachian.  However, I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of losing $100 playing blackjack for an hour or two than I would paying that much to go see cirque du soleil.

[sleepyguy]

I agree with this.  I mean if you enjoy the casino as least take part in a +EV game (if you are decently competent, aware and half decent at math).  Although the rake is absurd, 1-2 (almost always) and 2-5 (mostly so, but some decent regulars) are hilariously bad at most vegas venues.  5-10 and above is generally where you see the real 'seasoned' pros.

I used to play live for hrs on end and generally used the points for free nights or food.

Yeah, poker gives you maybe $1 an hour in comps, but the Tier points in the player's club (be it Total Rewards, MLife, whatever) rack up at a very slow rate.  I've never received good room offers for being a poker player.  Maybe $20 off per night. 

Though last year I switched my local play to a different casino system.  They do not have a property in Vegas so they have an agreement with the MGM player's club (MLife).  For anyone who makes it to the Preferred tier level (15,000 points - takes 750 hours of poker to reach those points), you get three free nights at either MGM, Mandalay Bay, or Mirage + $100 in free slot play and $50/day in food comps.   So, I'm heading out to Vegas for five nights next week.  Have a free Southwest flight from a CC bonus.  So, I'm only paying for two nights at Flamingo and two days worth of food, plus taxis to and from the airport and misc tips. 

MGM probably isn't going to like it that I don't give them any action besides the free play and poker play.  I actually might give them some Video Poker or Video Black as I am going back in November and want to get discount offers sent to me.  I'll have to see how well I do at poker.  Currently up $5200 for the year (157 hours of play).

[Bob W]

DH and I have done Vegas annually and quite inexpensively since 2009.

If you want to do it right, join LVA (Las Vegas Advisor). I paid the $40 membership (there's also a free side but it's not as good) and there is a forum with locals and absolute pros who blog about how to get the Freebies.

The $40 membership (I buy one for me + one for DH) includes a LVA a 'coupon' book that's mailed to you with food, entertainment, hotel and gambling savings. We also purchase one American Casino Guide each. I usually get those on Amazon. Last year I spent $94 on the coupon books and yielded about $700 in return...so it's a worthwhile investment for me. We also participated in the hacks shared above (each applied for a Total Rewards Credit Card, play MyVegas, etc).

When I share my 'coupon run' strategies with people they just roll their eyes. It's not what they want from Vegas. You have to visit about 30 different casinos to get your $$$'s worth. We enjoy it though. Moving around --using Vegas public transit and walking about 8 miles per day. I find it invigorating. DON'T rent a car if you go. The LVA forum has a whole thread dedicated to transportation and the public transportation/free casino shuttles will get you anywhere you need to go.

Laying by a pool sipping sugary $18 drinks is not my idea of fun. We guzzle free, premium bottled beers at all the casino's we visit while playing through the coupons and free-play.

In the end, we usually end up spending 5-6 nights in Vegas.

Last summer, our cost breakdown was:
Roundtrip airfare (from DEN)= $300; 5 nights Hotel=$73; Coupon books $94; food $45; tipping ~$100

After churning through all the coupons we came out +$340 on gambling winnings which funds our somewhat generous tipping habits, minimal food costs, hotel, and the coupon books. 

Oh, and the best part, we keep tallies (on our phones) of the number of free beer we drink throughout the day. Last year = 108 FREE BEERS.

Good luck and let us know how your trip went!

Thanks for that!  There is nothing my wife and I like better that free beer! 

[Bob W]

Sign up for the Southwest Rapid Rewards card and pay the $99 fee (not waived).  Spend $2000 in 3 months and get 50,000 points.  It's very easy to check prices and book on the Southwest website.  Just select show cost in "points" rather than "$$" to see how far 50,000 points will get you.  The credit the bonus points very quickly - as soon as the billing cycle closes where you have spent $2000.  I got the points before I got the hard copy bill.

Yes we plan on the Southwest churn with free companion flights so the air fare will be about $15 from KC. 

[Bob W]

I agree with this.  I mean if you enjoy the casino as least take part in a +EV game (if you are decently competent, aware and half decent at math).  Although the rake is absurd, 1-2 (almost always) and 2-5 (mostly so, but some decent regulars) are hilariously bad at most vegas venues.  5-10 and above is generally where you see the real 'seasoned' pros.

I used to play live for hrs on end and generally used the points for free nights or food.

For those of us unfamiliar with the +EV, could you explain what that is and what the 2-5 and 5-10 categories refer to?   I'm above average at math and would think I'm better at math than 90% of those who would choose to gamble at Vegas so this may be appealing to me.   I'll need to something at each of the 30 casinos I'll be getting free beer at!   (unfortunately DS is not so good at math, so I'll need to direct her to the nickel slots. 

So my 3 days at Vegas might play out like this --  Shuttle to hotel from the Southwest Terminal --- spend some time hitting up the casinos for free beer -- attend a show -- more free beer and then an over priced night life venue -- sleep late ---hover damn excursion -- rinse and repeat.  maybe throw in some pool time as well.

Everyone please keep those ideas coming!!!!

Yeah, poker gives you maybe $1 an hour in comps, but the Tier points in the player's club (be it Total Rewards, MLife, whatever) rack up at a very slow rate.  I've never received good room offers for being a poker player.  Maybe $20 off per night. 

Though last year I switched my local play to a different casino system.  They do not have a property in Vegas so they have an agreement with the MGM player's club (MLife).  For anyone who makes it to the Preferred tier level (15,000 points - takes 750 hours of poker to reach those points), you get three free nights at either MGM, Mandalay Bay, or Mirage + $100 in free slot play and $50/day in food comps.   So, I'm heading out to Vegas for five nights next week.  Have a free Southwest flight from a CC bonus.  So, I'm only paying for two nights at Flamingo and two days worth of food, plus taxis to and from the airport and misc tips. 

MGM probably isn't going to like it that I don't give them any action besides the free play and poker play.  I actually might give them some Video Poker or Video Black as I am going back in November and want to get discount offers sent to me.  I'll have to see how well I do at poker.  Currently up $5200 for the year (157 hours of play).

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

... MGM probably isn't going to like it that I don't give them any action besides the free play and poker play.  I actually might give them some Video Poker or Video Black as I am going back in November and want to get discount offers sent to me.  I'll have to see how well I do at poker.  Currently up $5200 for the year (157 hours of play).

You probably already know, but the Bellagio (a MGM property) will likely have the best games spread. Good luck!

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Bellagio.  It might be that I had a bad run on the one trip I played there.  But I found the $1/2 game to not be all that great.  And the tables are too close together.

Of the big rooms, I prefer Aria then Venetian.  Never played at Wynn.

I might try some of the smaller rooms too, if the action looks good.  I enjoyed the Planet Hollywood late night game when I played there before.  A lot of bad players that had been partying all night.

[Psychstache]

For those of us unfamiliar with the +EV, could you explain what that is and what the 2-5 and 5-10 categories refer to?

+EV = positive expected value

1-2, 2-5, and 5-10 are poker room terms to define the blinds for a Texas Hold'em table. As en example, 1-2 means a tables with a $1 small blind and a $2 big blind.

1-2 tables will feature terrible players and drunkards who you can easily take money off of if you are disciplined and have a decent sense of what you are doing. If you feel like you need to learn more before you are comfortable playing, the twoplustwo forums and anything written by David Sklansky are great starting points.

[sleepyguy]

"For those of us unfamiliar with the +EV, could you explain what that is and what the 2-5 and 5-10 categories refer to?   I'm above average at math and would think I'm better at math than 90% of those who would choose to gamble at Vegas so this may be appealing to me.   I'll need to something at each of the 30 casinos I'll be getting free beer at!   (unfortunately DS is not so good at math, so I'll need to direct her to the nickel slots.  "

+Expected Value - basically meaning if you stayed in the game and played correctly it is a profitable proposition to continue to do so.

Case in turn something like roulette is a -EV game, because long term you can NEVER be a winner mathematically.

Basically the lowest live poker in games in vegas are 200 No Limit (blinds are $1 and $2) and 500 No Limit (blinds are $2 and $5).  Generally you buyin for 100 blinds so you sit with $200 or $500.  At these limits you can pretty much play the most predictable boring poker known to man... and the recreational players wont even notice you are just waiting for big hands or smashing a flop for cheap in late position.

[Bob W]

"For those of us unfamiliar with the +EV, could you explain what that is and what the 2-5 and 5-10 categories refer to?   I'm above average at math and would think I'm better at math than 90% of those who would choose to gamble at Vegas so this may be appealing to me.   I'll need to something at each of the 30 casinos I'll be getting free beer at!   (unfortunately DS is not so good at math, so I'll need to direct her to the nickel slots.  "

+Expected Value - basically meaning if you stayed in the game and played correctly it is a profitable proposition to continue to do so.

Case in turn something like roulette is a -EV game, because long term you can NEVER be a winner mathematically.

Basically the lowest live poker in games in vegas are 200 No Limit (blinds are $1 and $2) and 500 No Limit (blinds are $2 and $5).  Generally you buyin for 100 blinds so you sit with $200 or $500.  At these limits you can pretty much play the most predictable boring poker known to man... and the recreational players wont even notice you are just waiting for big hands or smashing a flop for cheap in late position.

How interesting --- so you are basically skinning the drunk and ill informed?   I assume late night is the best time for that?    What could a decent player like yourself expect to average per hour in +EV on the 1-2?    I would assume you would still lose a significant amount the time?   Also what is the house cut on these 1-2 games?   

(not wanting to turn this into a winning poker thread but while we are thinking out of the traditional cheap hotels and rewards deal we may as well reveal all the tricks!)

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

I'm running hot right now for 2015.  I'm playing $1/3 at my local casino.  I've won 80% of my sessions, which is probably a little high.  So far I'm making $36.67/hr, but that is over only 172 hours.  So...small sample size. 

Typically casino rake for low stakes poker (in America) is either 10% or 5% of the pot, up to $4 or $5 max.  In markets that do not have much competition, the rake can be higher.  But in Vegas, you will see a $4 or $5 max rake.  Many casinos also take out $1 a hand to fund the promotions jackpot for things like Bad Beat jackpot, high hand bonuses, etc.  But this is money that is eventually dispersed back to the players in the form of jackpots.

[DoubleDown]

Still I hadn't considered the comp issue.   Perhaps I should dust off those counting books.   So lets see,  if I spend 7 hours at $6000 per hour and end up breaking even at black jack I might have as much as 40K go towards comp points.   What is that like $400?   

I'm not sure what formulas the different casinos use, but you should be able to earn something as long as you have a fair number of consistent $50 bets. Personally I always played $10-15 minimum bets, then went as high as $120-180 if the count warranted it. Giving them that kind of "action" seemed to earn pretty decent comps (but of course you have to be careful about varying too obviously, as Dimitri points out).

I don't know if you'll want to play for 7 hours/day, but in general if you manage to squeeze in around 1000 hands over the course of your visit you should expect a positive outcome (i.e., winning and not losing or breaking even). Of course there is variability, and no guarantees you'll win. Your expectation will differ a lot based on the casino's blackjack rules and the system you use, but hopefully you should get a 1-2% edge over the house. Playing for 7 hours/day in the same casino while counting would almost certainly get you ejected. The good news is I think you can get comped without going that long.

Forget counting.  60 hands/hr @ $100 and you have your $6K/hr wager.  But that is flat betting.  Flat betting doesn't win money (or even break even for that matter).  So let's say you step it up with the count (as you must).  The floor will notice and so will the eye in the sky.  You can count.  So can the eye in the sky.  In fact they will.  Right along with you.  On a computer.  The next thing you will be counting is spots on the dice.  Someone in a nice suit will have a chat with you, let you know that they appreciate your play but you are too good.  Enjoy dice and roulette. 

You can vary your bets in ways that don't draw too much scrutiny, and you can make sure to avoid some of the common giveaways that you're counting (like don't stay in place too long, don't vary bets too wildly, don't act the part, etc.).

Seriously, I've been in this game for a couple of decades.  The house is always very happy to comp.  But realize that a comp is only a rebate of a percentage of your theoretical losses.  There will be days when you win (and are comped) but only because the house has the advantage of time.  The house doesn't care if you win or lose - you just have to give action.  Because in the long run the house will win.  You can bet on it.

If you're a card counter and have been doing it for decades, then you have to know this is not true. The whole point of card counting is that the house will lose in the long run. This is the very reason they will ban you from playing if they detect you are counting. They'd be happy to have you keep playing if they knew you would lose.

[Bob W]

DH and I have done Vegas annually and quite inexpensively since 2009.

If you want to do it right, join LVA (Las Vegas Advisor). I paid the $40 membership (there's also a free side but it's not as good) and there is a forum with locals and absolute pros who blog about how to get the Freebies.

The $40 membership (I buy one for me + one for DH) includes a LVA a 'coupon' book that's mailed to you with food, entertainment, hotel and gambling savings. We also purchase one American Casino Guide each. I usually get those on Amazon. Last year I spent $94 on the coupon books and yielded about $700 in return...so it's a worthwhile investment for me. We also participated in the hacks shared above (each applied for a Total Rewards Credit Card, play MyVegas, etc).

When I share my 'coupon run' strategies with people they just roll their eyes. It's not what they want from Vegas. You have to visit about 30 different casinos to get your $$$'s worth. We enjoy it though. Moving around --using Vegas public transit and walking about 8 miles per day. I find it invigorating. DON'T rent a car if you go. The LVA forum has a whole thread dedicated to transportation and the public transportation/free casino shuttles will get you anywhere you need to go.

Laying by a pool sipping sugary $18 drinks is not my idea of fun. We guzzle free, premium bottled beers at all the casino's we visit while playing through the coupons and free-play.

In the end, we usually end up spending 5-6 nights in Vegas.

Last summer, our cost breakdown was:
Roundtrip airfare (from DEN)= $300; 5 nights Hotel=$73; Coupon books $94; food $45; tipping ~$100

After churning through all the coupons we came out +$340 on gambling winnings which funds our somewhat generous tipping habits, minimal food costs, hotel, and the coupon books. 

Oh, and the best part, we keep tallies (on our phones) of the number of free beer we drink throughout the day. Last year = 108 FREE BEERS.

Good luck and let us know how your trip went!

more on the free beer please.   I checked out lva per your suggestion but didn't see many free drinks.  Could you share how the 104 free beers were achieved?

[MoneyCat]

You are literally throwing money away for nothing when you participate in it.

I'm not going to argue that gambling isn't un-mustachian.  However, I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of losing $100 playing blackjack for an hour or two than I would paying that much to go see cirque du soleil.

Since you can gamble pretty much anywhere these days, it's a waste of time and money to go to Vegas just to gamble.  However, you can only see those Cirque du Soleil resident shows in Vegas along with other attractions.  That is the point of Vegas these days.  And the Cirque du Soleil shows are amazing poetry in motion.  "O" at the Bellagio is particularly incredible.

[mak1277]

You are literally throwing money away for nothing when you participate in it.

I'm not going to argue that gambling isn't un-mustachian.  However, I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of losing $100 playing blackjack for an hour or two than I would paying that much to go see cirque du soleil.

Since you can gamble pretty much anywhere these days, it's a waste of time and money to go to Vegas just to gamble.  However, you can only see those Cirque du Soleil resident shows in Vegas along with other attractions.  That is the point of Vegas these days.  And the Cirque du Soleil shows are amazing poetry in motion.  "O" at the Bellagio is particularly incredible.

I don't disagree...and that's the reason I've never been to Vegas (ability to gamble elsewhere combined with absolutely no interest in cirque du soleil).

[Bob W]

You are literally throwing money away for nothing when you participate in it.

I'm not going to argue that gambling isn't un-mustachian.  However, I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of losing $100 playing blackjack for an hour or two than I would paying that much to go see cirque du soleil.

Since you can gamble pretty much anywhere these days, it's a waste of time and money to go to Vegas just to gamble.  However, you can only see those Cirque du Soleil resident shows in Vegas along with other attractions.  That is the point of Vegas these days.  And the Cirque du Soleil shows are amazing poetry in motion.  "O" at the Bellagio is particularly incredible.

Agreed.  We have casinos within a 3 hour drive in any direction here in Missouri.  The closest being 90 minutes.   My interest is shows and basically getting out of town for a change.   I live in a rural area so the bright lights and party atmosphere of Vegas would be a welcome diversion.     As far as gambling being a waist of time, I suppose that is up to who is gambling.  The gentleman who posted here averaging $35 per hour in income playing poker is definitely making more money on this hobby than most hobbyist.   If fact, there are many professional gamblers who make pretty decent livings at it.   

So yeah,  while gambling isn't my goal for Vegas,  after consideration I'm not ruling out some Texas Hold em.   But it would have to be after much training and practice.   I'm kinda in to the simple math and statistics that poker incorporates and also like the idea that even losing hands can win in poker.  For now,  I'm putting poker on the "things that might be interesting if I have the time" list. 

As far as wasting time in Vegas though, I'm definitely down for the free beer and public transportation aspect.   

[sleepyguy]

I'll PM you... I'm sure MMM peeps don't want this to turn into a 2+2 live strategy thread, LOL.

[fartface]

RE: Free Beers

If you sit at a machine -- any machine -- a cocktail server will approach you and ask for your drink order.

We play Jacks or Better Video Poker (JOB -VP). For years we practiced on free software/tutorial at home. Full Pay 9/6 machines are available at most downtown casinos. Main Street Station is one of our favorites downtown and Gold Coast off strip. Then, as we sit and play we order our free domestic bottles or micro-brews.

The coupons for free slot play/bonus play add to this...

[sky_northern]

Anyone play 'My Vega' slots on facebook to earn the free (as long as your resist the in-game purchases) comps?

[UnleashHell]

RE: Free Beers

If you sit at a machine -- any machine -- a cocktail server will approach you and ask for your drink order.

We play Jacks or Better Video Poker (JOB -VP). For years we practiced on free software/tutorial at home. Full Pay 9/6 machines are available at most downtown casinos. Main Street Station is one of our favorites downtown and Gold Coast off strip. Then, as we sit and play we order our free domestic bottles or micro-brews.

The coupons for free slot play/bonus play add to this...

I would take this chance to confirm that the micro brews at MSS are still as good as ever. As of last week!
I also made money at Blackjack, got a $80 dinner comp from one of the pit bosses who I knew from elsewhere (apparently I liven up the tables - IE get everyone cheering and tipping the dealers and cocktail waitresses). The run and cokes were also the strongest downtown. Excellent place and if you just want to have a few beers then 1.75 isn't a bad price for good microbrew (though the double IPA is more expensive. Double the price, double the hops, double the alcohol and double the taste). The 777 does good happy hour prices as well if you need food.

I think I may well have to go back to staying there next year. Trip is fully funded from a small profit from last week.

I must have tipped hundreds over the 7 days.... excellent time was had by all.

[boarder42]

Bob just so you know almost every vegas hotel now charges insane resort fees.  2 things you could do to offset the get HHonors points.  The tropicana is now a double tree hotel and resort fees are waived on reward stays. 

Link to these insane fees now being charged

http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2015/1/12/15109/3421/vegas-travel/Las+Vegas+Resort+Fees%3A+The+2015+Guide

it wasnt this way 2 years ago it just happened in the last couple years

[boarder42]

You can get the Total Rewards Visa and it makes you a Platinum member (second tier).  That alone should get you some comps.  Play the facebook games, as mentioned.  I don't have a facebook account, but I play their other slot game (slotomania?  I have it bookmarked and don't type it anymore) and I'm rigged into the social rewards thing.  Because I don't FB and don't buy credits it does nothing for my rewards but I don't really need it at this point.  You can use the reward points to pay for food (the buffet of buffets is a bit over $50 for 24 hours of access to all their buffets).  If you are Platinum you should get Ceasers/Harrah's properties for around $35/night even if you aren't comped for free.  Myself, I get comped 3 free nights/month and have more rewards credits than I can use.  I also get free shows.  I am also trying this year to cut back on my gambling. 

If you live near a Harrah's casino outside of Vegas they will usually have promotions where you get extra reward credits.  And, right now they have a promotion that any tier credits will be comped half again (give you 50% of what you have already free) at the end of March.  The difference between tier credits and reward credits is best explained on their website, but tier credits reset every year and determine your level (gold, platinum, diamond, etc.) and rewards credits you can spend like money and they carry over as long as you don't go over 6 months with no activity.

There is a new casino, not aflilated with Ceasers/Harrahs, down by Circus Circus called SLS.  It is where the Sahara used to be.  They randomly sent me a letter not long after they opened and gave me 3 nights free, and have again offered me 3 nights a month for the next 3 months.  Did I mention that I might need to cut back on my gambling... ?  You could call them an ask if they would comp you?  Worth a call anyway. 

Any other questions?

SLS is also a hilton hotel and can be had with HHonors points.

[Bob W]

Thanks for everyone keeping the ideas coming on this!   


Anyone have any other hacks for the more expensive shows??    Would love to see some awesome magic or comedian shows.   

[boarder42]

Thanks for everyone keeping the ideas coming on this!   


Anyone have any other hacks for the more expensive shows??    Would love to see some awesome magic or comedian shows.

magicians and comedians are usually the cheaper tickets out there.  if there is a hot comedian in town you could always buy extra tickets and resell.  make a profit and cover your show .. i do this alot.

[shotgunwilly]

As long as you're gambling (sitting at a slot, playing blackjack, playing hold em) then all your drinks are free. Just tip your waitress so she comes back to you. This is where the "108 free beers" came from in that one guys post.  And it's not just domestic beers that are free.  Decent liquor like crown, makers, etc.. Bloody Marys, Mimosas... pretty much anything.

You can literally take $200, sit a $1/$2 no limit hold table, and play your blinds and fold everything else until you have an elite hand to play.  You could "play" hours of poker and only pay your blinds a few times and drink some alcohol if you wanted to. Haha. Get up and take your money whenever you want to.

[flyingaway]

As long as you're gambling (sitting at a slot, playing blackjack, playing hold em) then all your drinks are free. Just tip your waitress so she comes back to you. This is where the "108 free beers" came from in that one guys post.  And it's not just domestic beers that are free.  Decent liquor like crown, makers, etc.. Bloody Marys, Mimosas... pretty much anything.

You can literally take $200, sit a $1/$2 no limit hold table, and play your blinds and fold everything else until you have an elite hand to play.  You could "play" hours of poker and only pay your blinds a few times and drink some alcohol if you wanted to. Haha. Get up and take your money whenever you want to.

If you order a "free" soft drink and tip the waitress $1, that is more expensive than buying it from a grocery store. I am not sure if the cocktails and beers are also free. 

[shotgunwilly]

As long as you're gambling (sitting at a slot, playing blackjack, playing hold em) then all your drinks are free. Just tip your waitress so she comes back to you. This is where the "108 free beers" came from in that one guys post.  And it's not just domestic beers that are free.  Decent liquor like crown, makers, etc.. Bloody Marys, Mimosas... pretty much anything.

You can literally take $200, sit a $1/$2 no limit hold table, and play your blinds and fold everything else until you have an elite hand to play.  You could "play" hours of poker and only pay your blinds a few times and drink some alcohol if you wanted to. Haha. Get up and take your money whenever you want to.

If you order a "free" soft drink and tip the waitress $1, that is more expensive than buying it from a grocery store. I am not sure if the cocktails and beers are also free.

Did you even read my post? Yes. All alcohol is free.

[boarder42]

As long as you're gambling (sitting at a slot, playing blackjack, playing hold em) then all your drinks are free. Just tip your waitress so she comes back to you. This is where the "108 free beers" came from in that one guys post.  And it's not just domestic beers that are free.  Decent liquor like crown, makers, etc.. Bloody Marys, Mimosas... pretty much anything.

You can literally take $200, sit a $1/$2 no limit hold table, and play your blinds and fold everything else until you have an elite hand to play.  You could "play" hours of poker and only pay your blinds a few times and drink some alcohol if you wanted to. Haha. Get up and take your money whenever you want to.

If you order a "free" soft drink and tip the waitress $1, that is more expensive than buying it from a grocery store. I am not sure if the cocktails and beers are also free.

of course booze are free ... thats the like number one thing in vegas.  have you ever been?

[Bob W]

As long as you're gambling (sitting at a slot, playing blackjack, playing hold em) then all your drinks are free. Just tip your waitress so she comes back to you. This is where the "108 free beers" came from in that one guys post.  And it's not just domestic beers that are free.  Decent liquor like crown, makers, etc.. Bloody Marys, Mimosas... pretty much anything.

You can literally take $200, sit a $1/$2 no limit hold table, and play your blinds and fold everything else until you have an elite hand to play.  You could "play" hours of poker and only pay your blinds a few times and drink some alcohol if you wanted to. Haha. Get up and take your money whenever you want to.

If you order a "free" soft drink and tip the waitress $1, that is more expensive than buying it from a grocery store. I am not sure if the cocktails and beers are also free.

of course booze are free ... thats the like number one thing in vegas.  have you ever been?

I have not.   

[boarder42]

bob that comment was to flying away who tried to say they just thought soft drinks are free.  i used to go yearly... i like downtown more than the strip but its worth going to see the strip. 

[OSUBearCub]

As odd as it may seem, coming from me, see one of the topless shows.  My dad and I went and saw "Jubilee!" at Bally's and it was well worth the ticket price.  It's tasteful (almost tame), and very "old Vegas".  Dad earned one of the tickets on the blackjack tables in about 2-3 hours of play Bally's is a Caesars property so you'd have to play at their hotels.

Off-topic suggestion - We spent a day searching out the "down on your luck steak dinner" type eats one day.  Freemont Street is chocked full of them.  And the side benefit of the people watching - wow.   People of Walmart has nothing on People of Freemont Street.
http://www.vegashotspots.com/hot_spots/restaurants/best_99-cent_shrimp_cocktails/

[MoneyCat]

As odd as it may seem, coming from me, see one of the topless shows.  My dad and I went and saw "Jubilee!" at Bally's and it was well worth the ticket price.  It's tasteful (almost tame), and very "old Vegas".  Dad earned one of the tickets on the blackjack tables in about 2-3 hours of play Bally's is a Caesars property so you'd have to play at their hotels.

Off-topic suggestion - We spent a day searching out the "down on your luck steak dinner" type eats one day.  Freemont Street is chocked full of them.  And the side benefit of the people watching - wow.   People of Walmart has nothing on People of Freemont Street.
http://www.vegashotspots.com/hot_spots/restaurants/best_99-cent_shrimp_cocktails/

If you are a Platinum Total Rewards member -- courtesy of having the Total Rewards Visa -- then you can get two-for-one tickets to Jubilee! and other CET shows.  All you have to do is go to the ticket booth at any of their casinos and request it.  If you pay for the one ticket using your reward credits -- earned from Social Rewards and the TR Visa -- then it's a completely free show for two people.  Vegas is chock full of good deals if you know how to play the game.

[Bob W]

As odd as it may seem, coming from me, see one of the topless shows.  My dad and I went and saw "Jubilee!" at Bally's and it was well worth the ticket price.  It's tasteful (almost tame), and very "old Vegas".  Dad earned one of the tickets on the blackjack tables in about 2-3 hours of play Bally's is a Caesars property so you'd have to play at their hotels.

Off-topic suggestion - We spent a day searching out the "down on your luck steak dinner" type eats one day.  Freemont Street is chocked full of them.  And the side benefit of the people watching - wow.   People of Walmart has nothing on People of Freemont Street.
http://www.vegashotspots.com/hot_spots/restaurants/best_99-cent_shrimp_cocktails/

If you are a Platinum Total Rewards member -- courtesy of having the Total Rewards Visa -- then you can get two-for-one tickets to Jubilee! and other CET shows.  All you have to do is go to the ticket booth at any of their casinos and request it.  If you pay for the one ticket using your reward credits -- earned from Social Rewards and the TR Visa -- then it's a completely free show for two people.  Vegas is chock full of good deals if you know how to play the game.

Oh yes,  that is why I'm here --  To learn the Vegas Game!

[gluskap]

Anyone play 'My Vega' slots on facebook to earn the free (as long as your resist the in-game purchases) comps?

I just started playing the Myvegas app games on Facebook and this is a great way to earn comps for free.  It's a huge time suck but if you like those FB games anyways, might as well get some free stuff for it.  I also play on the mobile version and if you do both you can build up the loyalty points much faster.  I'd say use the other comps/credit card hacks to get free or cheap rooms and then use the Myvegas rewards for free food/show tickets.

[FrugalKube]

Cheaper vegas..
Simple – learn some optimum games and play them at low levels.
Pai-gow and blackjack are pretty good in that the house edge is very low and you can survive far longer with your stake.

Look into staying downtown – at least on the Friday and Saturday nights. Track the rates as far out as you can and when you see a rate ou are happy with then book it. Downtown will be far cheaper than the strip. You can easily get between downtown and the strip by using public transport – the SDX is an express bus to and from the strip – the duce is a double decker that gives you an excellent view as you travel… but it stops everywhere and after about 11am it takes forever!! The wax bus is a couple of stops from downtown to NYNY – very handy and cheap.  It also runs to the airport so you can save there.
Get a bus pass – you can have unlimited travel on the bus for only a few bucks a day. Check out happy hour specials – same food but way cheaper.

Go look at a specialist site – vegasmessageboard is a good one and has a “frugal” subforum. Right up your street.

I’ll be going next week and using the wax from the airport to downtown. Takes about 10 minutes longer but is about $35 cheaper!!

BTW same casinos will not rate you under a certain limit  -so you get nothing in comps. Downtown somewhere like binions does – I’ll often play there and get a meal a day comped just via playing. Also look into joining the players clubs – new member often get excellent discounts and offers.

These are good ideas staying off the strip is cheaper. The Trip Advisor Forums have tons of info on being frugal in Vegas. There are threads dedicated to finding cheap food as well, the $5-$10 steak still exists