Do you think these moonlighting teachers could simply be more "badass" instead?

[swampwiz]

I was reading this article about how teachers are moonlighting, and it got me thinking that if only they were more "badass" they could make it with their teacher's salary:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/06/magazine/teachers-america-second-jobs.html

[renata ricotta]

There's more than one way to be "badass."  Some here people increase their savings rate by decreasing spending, some people do it by increasing salary (via increased hours at a first job, a second job, or a side hustle), and most people try for a combination of both. 

Whether or not a teacher could be more "badass" or not seems pretty unrelated to the indirect point of this article, which is that in many parts of America, teachers are seriously underpaid, given 1) how much they work outside of regular work hours and 2) their value to society.

[Erica]

Here in our area of California, it takes working decades and waiting until age 65 for the Calpers pension
Moonlighting or just being a substitute Teacher seems to make more sense
At least to our son who just quit tech support with apple after 7 yrs
He says they are paying substitutes at his former high school quite well
Where-as for decades, that was not the case
This is where I obtained this info
He might become a financial planner & moonlight as a substitute teacher (or work summers only)

[dandarc]

Am I missing something? The monthly expenses on all but one of those add up to less than the teaching salary alone. Maybe it already is a list of bad-asses - in both the "earn more money" and "control your spending" senses.-

[MrMathMustache]

As a 15-year teacher in a state in the bottom 10 for average pay, my experience has been that you can definitely reduce expenses, but the way to get to that "badass" 60%+ savings rate is to boost the income side because you're starting from a relatively low base.  I have plenty of colleagues who hold down part-time jobs, but depending on your skill set, the money to be made varies wildly as math teachers who go up through calculus can easily make many times the amounts listed in the article in far fewer hours.

[Cranky]

A lot of the teachers in that article are in states with very low education salaries. Oklahoma is particularly terrible in that respect, and I know several teachers there who spend thousands of dollars of their own money on classroom materials.

[Laura33]

IMO moonlighting is being a badass, as long as you are not blowing it all on toys.

[I'm a red panda]

Am I missing something? The monthly expenses on all but one of those add up to less than the teaching salary alone. Maybe it already is a list of bad-asses - in both the "earn more money" and "control your spending" senses.-

Many people like to save money, not just cover their expenses.
It's questionable whether taxes were included in the expenses.


One teacher's expenses were less than I spend on daycare (in a LCOL state). That's badass, IMO

[mathlete]

Teachers are very important and I appreciate all the good teachers I had growing up. But teaching is a median income (and above) profession that gets out sized attention because of good PR and powerful unions. 

If median income earners can't make it on their salary, then half of all Americans can't either.

No judgments on who is or isn't badass.

[I'm a red panda]

Teachers are very important and I appreciate all the good teachers I had growing up. But teaching is a median income (and above) profession that gets out sized attention because of good PR and powerful unions. 

If median income earners can't make it on their salary, then half of all Americans can't either.

No judgments on who is or isn't badass.

Not every state has powerful unions for their teachers. Collective bargaining for teachers was illegal in the state where I held a teaching license.

Nor does every teacher make an income above the median.

[mm1970]

A lot of the teachers in that article are in states with very low education salaries. Oklahoma is particularly terrible in that respect, and I know several teachers there who spend thousands of dollars of their own money on classroom materials.

Yep.

Many of these salaries are low.

And many of these folks are probably still paying off college loans.

I know many teachers who moonlight, particularly in the first 5 years.

[Proud Foot]

I was reading this article about how teachers are moonlighting, and it got me thinking that if only they were more "badass" they could make it with their teacher's salary:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/06/magazine/teachers-america-second-jobs.html

I honestly think they are being badass by moonlighting on these second jobs, particularly the two who co-own their own businesses. However, before making the judgement they need to be more badass I would want to know more details about their expenses and whether their spouse works (if married). With the exception of one, all their expenses are less than their teaching salary. But do the expenses count everything taken out of their paycheck (taxes, retirement, health insurance) or is it just the expenses paid by their net income? If the latter then I would guess a lot more of them are right at break-even or negative without the additional income. Of the 8 in the article, 4 are from Oklahoma whose education system is a total shit show.

[simonsez]

A lot of the teachers in that article are in states with very low education salaries. Oklahoma is particularly terrible in that respect, and I know several teachers there who spend thousands of dollars of their own money on classroom materials.

The national mean is $479.  With so many teachers, I'm sure there are many thousands that spend thousands.

[Yankuba]

Am I missing something? The monthly expenses on all but one of those add up to less than the teaching salary alone. Maybe it already is a list of bad-asses - in both the "earn more money" and "control your spending" senses.-

+1

I also thought it was a weird photo essay. One young woman was taking home approximately 3x her expenses via her $48k teaching gig. I don't know why she was working at a movie theater and retail store when her expenses were only $1200.

[swampwiz]

A lot of the teachers in that article are in states with very low education salaries. Oklahoma is particularly terrible in that respect, and I know several teachers there who spend thousands of dollars of their own money on classroom materials.

Yes, but isn't Oklahoma a dirt-cheap state to live in?  The only reason teacher salaries are high on the coasts is because the costs of living are high as well.

[I'm a red panda]

Am I missing something? The monthly expenses on all but one of those add up to less than the teaching salary alone. Maybe it already is a list of bad-asses - in both the "earn more money" and "control your spending" senses.-

+1

I also thought it was a weird photo essay. One young woman was taking home approximately 3x her expenses via her $48k teaching gig. I don't know why she was working at a movie theater and retail store when her expenses were only $1200.

I don't think most people consider withholdings, taxes, or savings to be "expenses". Expenses are likely, literally, what they pay out each month.  So that might not include health insurance premiums, or even medical payments at all (because it isn't a typical monthly expense).  Taxes can be a huge part of your gross, and if the salary given is gross, that likely isn't included.  Savings for their kids college, or for their vacation in four years, or maybe even their tax-deferred accounts might not be included.


I'm guessing we just aren't seeing a "big picture".

[Cranky]

A lot of the teachers in that article are in states with very low education salaries. Oklahoma is particularly terrible in that respect, and I know several teachers there who spend thousands of dollars of their own money on classroom materials.

Yes, but isn't Oklahoma a dirt-cheap state to live in?  The only reason teacher salaries are high on the coasts is because the costs of living are high as well.

Dirt cheap is a relative term. Housing costs are generally cheaper, but not so much your groceries, etc.

Oklahoma is in a terrible pinch because they have cut education spending, which means that it has affected LOTS of things, right down to textbooks and supplies as well as salaries. I have a friend in Oklahoma who has to purchase her entire math curriculum on her own.

[dandarc]

Am I missing something? The monthly expenses on all but one of those add up to less than the teaching salary alone. Maybe it already is a list of bad-asses - in both the "earn more money" and "control your spending" senses.-

+1

I also thought it was a weird photo essay. One young woman was taking home approximately 3x her expenses via her $48k teaching gig. I don't know why she was working at a movie theater and retail store when her expenses were only $1200.

I don't think most people consider withholdings, taxes, or savings to be "expenses". Expenses are likely, literally, what they pay out each month.  So that might not include health insurance premiums, or even medical payments at all (because it isn't a typical monthly expense).  Taxes can be a huge part of your gross, and if the salary given is gross, that likely isn't included.  Savings for their kids college, or for their vacation in four years, or maybe even their tax-deferred accounts might not be included.


I'm guessing we just aren't seeing a "big picture".

There is no way that someone grossing $48K / year is clearing less than $15K and therefore has to work as side gig to make ends meet.

Your point about wanting to save / invest has been well taken. What I'm saying is that you could take this article, change nothing except the comments from "woe is me" to "I'm trying to save as much as I can", and you've got a list of bad-ass teacher's moving towards FIRE. A bunch of arebelspy's being profiled.

The author and editor did a bad job of presenting this in a way that makes the point they're trying to make. We're not seeing the big picture because they were lazy.

[bookish]

I cannot comment on all of the situations in the story, but from my own experience as an elementary school volunteer in a Title I school and being married to a teacher, most teachers are some of the scrappiest individuals you will find. Especially those teaching in low-income schools. I am impressed all of the time by the way good teachers will pay from their own salary (where I live, starts in the 30s) to buy supplies or things that will enrich learning. They knock themselves out to do extras, like the science teacher who came almost daily prepared to do amazing experiments that wound up turning my “I hate science” daughter into a lover of science. Those of you who have spent full days in a classroom know that it is a job where you have to be “on” constantly, especially with younger kids. My cushy office job where I can sit in silence and think and get up and use the restroom without finding someone to cover for me is such a walk in the park compared with what teachers, who make less than half my salary, do all day — and their work is infinitely more valuable to society than what I do. It’s not a fair world. If it was, teachers would make a lot more money. And where I live, there are no unions. Teachers come in about 7, frequently are there til after 5 for after-school activities and meetings, and then at home they do grading and prep for the next day or field calls and emails from parents.

My husband grits his teeth when he gets the remarks of  “nice to have summers off!” Yes, it is. It gives him a chance to teach three sessions of summer school, freelance as a writer/resume prep person/college entrance essay editor, prepare the next year’s classes, go to lawn maintenance jobs offered on NextDoor and be a somewhat-stay-at-home parent when our kids were small. I am not complaining about our situation. One can always choose something else. I am saying, we should be very, very careful about telling teachers they could be more badass if they just tried harder.

[NV Teacher]

I am saying, we should be very, very careful about telling teachers they could be more badass if they just tried harder.

Thank you.

[MommyCake]

Maybe some of the teachers on here can enlighten me.  I always thought teachers salaries were based on working about 85% of the year?  I thought the salary was based on having summers off and you have the option to do summer school programs increase your pay if you choose.

I'm in NJ, where the average teacher salary is about 58k.  If that is for 85% of the year, the teacher could work the full year for over 68k (above my salary), which is not bad pay in Northern NJ. 

Am I wrong on this assumption? 

[simonsez]

Maybe some of the teachers on here can enlighten me.  I always thought teachers salaries were based on working about 85% of the year?  I thought the salary was based on having summers off and you have the option to do summer school programs increase your pay if you choose.

I'm in NJ, where the average teacher salary is about 58k.  If that is for 85% of the year, the teacher could work the full year for over 68k (above my salary), which is not bad pay in Northern NJ. 

Am I wrong on this assumption?

How do you work the full year and earn 68k?  That is the current rate if expanded but that doesn't magically happen.  I think it's bad pay still.  Teachers are licensed professionals who average 60 hours a week and at times have to play various roles of counselor, psychologist, role model, instructor, coach, social worker and dealing with children of various mental capacities and home lives.

I mean, I work with some characters in my office but at the end of the day, everyone is fairly well-adjusted adult with a decent head on their shoulders and is a professional.  Teachers are themselves professionals but surrounded by children often undergoing intense physical, mental, social, and emotional changes.  It can be a job to live on and even thrive but it is not a walk in the park.  To use your number of 58k and 60hr/week, that comes to about $22/hr (58000/2087*1.5*0.85).  I'd consider that very low for something that requires a degree, deals with a lot beyond the main task of just teaching, and long hours.

Other professional jobs can often require long hours but they usually pay a lot more.

[Hula Hoop]

I guess maybe things are different in the US but where do you get the 60 hours a week from?  My kids go to Italian public elementary school.  The hours are 8.30-4.30 but they have one teacher in the morning and a different one in the afternoon - which means that each teacher works 4 hours a day - one teacher works 8.30-12.30 and the other 12.30-4.30 every day - there is no overlap.  I often see one or the other teacher arriving at those hours.  The teachers don't do any grading outside of class as all homework is graded in class (if it is graded at all).  Exams are graded by outside teachers.  I imagine that in middle and high school they might do more grading outside of class hours but not much since exams and assessments are oral.

So the teachers here have 4 hours a day of face to face class hours.  Then they need to do lesson plans which I imagine would take 2 hours tops per day - so that is 6 hours a day times 5 which is 30 hours a week.  We aren't given the teachers' email addresses or cell phone numbers so we aren't able to contact them outside of class hours.  We meet the teachers after school hours twice a year.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard but 60 hours a week is pushing it.

58k a year is also more than I make per year and I work 40 hours a week year round and am a professional with an advanced degree.

[OtherJen]

I guess maybe things are different in the US but where do you get the 60 hours a week from?  My kids go to Italian public elementary school.  The hours are 8.30-4.30 but they have one teacher in the morning and a different one in the afternoon - which means that each teacher works 4 hours a day - one teacher works 8.30-12.30 and the other 12.30-4.30 every day - there is no overlap.  I often see one or the other teacher arriving at those hours.  The teachers don't do any grading outside of class as all homework is graded in class (if it is graded at all).  Exams are graded by outside teachers.  I imagine that in middle and high school they might do more grading outside of class hours but not much since exams and assessments are oral.

So the teachers here have 4 hours a day of face to face class hours.  Then they need to do lesson plans which I imagine would take 2 hours tops per day - so that is 6 hours a day times 5 which is 30 hours a week.  We aren't given the teachers' email addresses or cell phone numbers so we aren't able to contact them outside of class hours.  We meet the teachers after school hours twice a year.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard but 60 hours a week is pushing it.

58k a year is also more than I make per year and I work 40 hours a week year round and am a professional with an advanced degree.

Here, students are in classes for about 7 hours per day, and most teachers are in the classroom for all 7 hours. They arrive before the students to get ready for the day. Many of them stay after classes to supervise student activities. Things like grading, lesson planning, and shopping for classroom supplies take place outside of those hours, and many teachers spend their own money to provide supplies for their students.

[I'm a red panda]

I guess maybe things are different in the US

They are.

When I taught, classes were from 8 am - 3:30 pm.  I was required to be on campus from 7:30 am to 4 pm, but usually didn't leave before 5:00 (because I would work with students after school if requested) and at least once a week we had meetings starting at 7 am. During that time, there was a 30 minute lunch break, but I was required to drop my class off and pick them up in that 30 minutes, which left me about 15 minutes for actual lunch. I had a 1 hour planning period, which was usually used to enact plans I had worked on over the weekends.  We did not have passing periods, so I did not get any bathroom breaks. If another teacher was at the bathrooms during the two times during the day I took my class to them, I would often ask him/her if I could run to the bathroom while s/he watched my class, and then do the same for them.

All grading is done by the teachers themselves.  I regularly worked evenings and weekends to do grading. Grading was never done in class. During class, we taught. Maybe if students were taking a test, I'd try to do something- but generally, I would proctor the test- and watch that the students were not cheating (not a super frequent occurence at 4th grade, but that's when the really start to figure out how to cheat.  Huge problem middle school and up.)

Our summer break was shorter than the students, as we had to work 2 weeks after school and report back 2 weeks before they did.  We were also required to do professional development hours (that we paid for ourselves) and generally meant classes over the summer.  Getting a meaningful summer job wasn't really possible.

Any classroom decoration, bulletin board etc was from my own money, and done on my own time.  Of course, parents expected that we have interesting and engaging displays.  Most of the books in the class I purchased myself. I often purchased lab supplies myself. 

I made $30k.

I don't teach anymore. I still regularly put in 50 hour weeks, but I can also get up and pee whenever I want. It's a nice perk.

[FIRE_Buckeye]

I guess maybe things are different in the US but where do you get the 60 hours a week from?  My kids go to Italian public elementary school.  The hours are 8.30-4.30 but they have one teacher in the morning and a different one in the afternoon - which means that each teacher works 4 hours a day - one teacher works 8.30-12.30 and the other 12.30-4.30 every day - there is no overlap.  I often see one or the other teacher arriving at those hours.

US teachers teach a class for the entire day, not half, so we need to multiply your 4 hour number by two to 7-8.

The teachers don't do any grading outside of class as all homework is graded in class (if it is graded at all).  Exams are graded by outside teachers.  I imagine that in middle and high school they might do more grading outside of class hours but not much since exams and assessments are oral.

The majority of grading in the US is done outside of normal school hours.
Imagine trying to grade assignments while teaching/babysitting 25 eight-year-olds. Just no

So the teachers here have 4 hours a day of face to face class hours.  Then they need to do lesson plans which I imagine would take 2 hours tops per day - so that is 6 hours a day times 5 which is 30 hours a week.  We aren't given the teachers' email addresses or cell phone numbers so we aren't able to contact them outside of class hours.  We meet the teachers after school hours twice a year.

Using revised numbers I provided above (7-8 hours of face time teaching) plus the two hours you provided for lesson plans (plus grading), we come to 9-10 hours per day. This excludes staff meetings, as well as any work done on the weekends, of which there is in varying amounts. Additionally, most teachers provide their email to parents, and many will correspond with parents outside of school hours whenever a parent has a question or issue.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard but 60 hours a week is pushing it.

58k a year is also more than I make per year and I work 40 hours a week year round and am a professional with an advanced degree.

Congrats on your advanced degree. Many school districts here also require an "advanced degree" (Masters) within ~5 years of the time a teacher is first employed.

The majority of people who denigrate teachers, or teaching, know little to nothing of what goes into the job and should really make some attempt to educate themselves on the topic before doing said denigrating. Beyond that, for every teacher in California or New York making an "average" salary of 60-80k, there is a teacher in North Carolina or Florida making an "average" of 40-60k. Needless to say, for the work they do, that's ridiculously low.

[sequoia]

I can say that if you make $48K in Lexington KY, you should be able to live very comfortably. Cost of living here is not that high. I do not understand the "Movie theaters don’t close. I work Thanksgiving, Christmas and holidays, and I miss out on family events. " for $10/hr job. I think she can afford not working the second job over holidays.

[wageslave23]

The biggest factor in all of this is supply and demand.  In some states, teacher pay is too high and it is very hard for qualified people to get a teaching job.  In other states, they don't pay enough and there is a shortage of qualified teachers.  As with any job there are market inefficiencies in the short term but in the long term they correct themselves.  Just like roofing companies that complain that they can't find good workers, there may be a shortage of good workers at $12/hr but I guarantee there isn't at $40/hr.  If I could do it all over again, I would become a teacher because, although the pay would be less, my job would be more rewarding and summers off are HUGE.  Money isn't everything and the intangibles of a job can be very valuable.  But I also live in IL where teacher pay is very good (i.e $40-100k depending on experience) and after 25 yrs you get a pension equal to the average of your last 3 years salary.  So if you enjoy teaching, you get to do a career you enjoy and have summers off and after 25 yrs you are set for life.  Because of this, it is very hard to land a full time teaching position in good school districts.

[Hula Hoop]

It sounds like US teachers work a lot more than here in Italy so I stand corrected. My hat's off to US teachers if they work such long hours.  I know that my US friends talk about contacting their kids' teachers outside of class hours which always amazes me as we don't even know their email addresses or phone numbers so this is not a thing here. If we really want to talk to our kid's teacher we can call the class parent (ie one parent who is designated as the one to communicate things from the teachers to us) and s/he will convey a message to them. Teachers here also don't decorate the kids' classrooms - they are very institutional with gray walls, peeling paint and no decorations.  I guess I'm happy that my kids' teachers are happy and well rested though.  I wouldn't want someone teaching my kids who couldn't take a bathroom break, eat lunch or have time to plan lessons.

When I say that the HW is graded in class I mean that the teachers go over it with the entire class on Mondays during class hours (they only get HW on weekends until middle school).  Sometimes they don't bother though which frustrates me as we spend hours on weekends trying to force our kids to do HW.

[MrsPete]

I was reading this article about how teachers are moonlighting, and it got me thinking that if only they were more "badass" they could make it with their teacher's salary:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/06/magazine/teachers-america-second-jobs.html

From a teacher:  In my experience, a large percentage of my teaching co-workers have always worked second jobs.  It's not a new thing.  LOTS of teachers have some sort of a second job in the summer, about 50% of the just-out-of-college-teachers have a second job during the school year, and about 30% of the older teachers with kids in college have a second income.  What are they doing?  A lot of them are tutoring, a lot have small businesses in the trades (painting, building decks, selling crafts on etsy), and a few work at the mall or waiting tables. 

I'd say about 70% of my teacher co-workers are nija-level frugal on day-to-day things -- stocking up when groceries are on sale, DIYing projects at home, saving every month on a small salary.  Most are not long-term oriented; that is, most tend to think "We have a pension, and it'll be fine" rather than crunching numbers while they still have time to put aside money. 

Many people like to save money, not just cover their expenses.

Yes, that should be obvious on this board. 

I also thought it was a weird photo essay. One young woman was taking home approximately 3x her expenses via her $48k teaching gig. I don't know why she was working at a movie theater and retail store when her expenses were only $1200.

With expenses that low, I bet she either lives at home with her parents OR she lives with a roommate ... and she's trying to move forward in the world.

Maybe some of the teachers on here can enlighten me.  I always thought teachers salaries were based on working about 85% of the year?  I thought the salary was based on having summers off and you have the option to do summer school programs increase your pay if you choose.

I'm in NJ, where the average teacher salary is about 58k.  If that is for 85% of the year, the teacher could work the full year for over 68k (above my salary), which is not bad pay in Northern NJ. 

Am I wrong on this assumption?

Yes, your assumption is wrong. 

Yes, we have summers off, but consider what type of job a teacher can get for a two-month timespan.  It's easy to get a summer job as a lifeguard or at a summer camp, and it's easy to get a job at the mall or waiting tables -- but those jobs tend to be part time, and they definitely pay less than a teacher's salary. 

So to use your numbers, a teacher in your state earns about $5,800/month for 10 months a year ... but in the summer would probably earn $10-12/hour x 20 hours/week ... totaling less than $2,000 for the whole summer.  Sure, a real go-getter may work at two part-time jobs, but then that person isn't available for the VOLUN-TOLD stuff that teachers do in the summer and doesn't do all the "get ahead" stuff that helps so much during the school year.  Sure, that $2,000 is better than nothing, but it doesn't equate to working at full salary for the whole summer. 

Some teachers work grading AP tests (or similar); that's a 3-4 day job, which pays a couple hundred dollars plus a mini-vacation to wherever the grading is being done.  Other teachers are employed by the county to write curriculum, and that's at their regular salary -- again, for 3-4 days. 

[familyandfarming]

This post is slightly off topic but relevant. I’m a long time (38 years and just retired) teacher. I feel like the scientist in a disaster movie who knows the volcano is about to blow, running around telling everyone the volcano is about to blow, but no one cares!

When the election cycle starts up, politicians will go on about how “The costs per pupil are skyrocketing and test scores are going down!” I’m using my school as an example here, but I know what I’m about to write in response to this statement is true throughout the US. In the 38 years I was at my high school, we didn’t hire one additional core teacher! What we did hire more of were special education teachers and staff. In 1980 (when I started) our high school had two special education teachers and zero special education associates. Fast forward to today. We now have four special education teachers and sixteen teacher’s associates! Why? Slowly over time our states have closed down state facilities such as schools for deaf and blind and child psychiatric facilities. Those students are now being served exclusively by schools. Just last year I had three students in my art classroom who had such severe and profound issues, they each had three associates with them at all times. Of course the cost per pupil is higher!

Don’t get me wrong. EVERY student should be served and I think children should be living at home rather than a state facility, but don’t compare cost per pupil with the changing dynamic that has been instituted by every state government out there!

Here’s another educational issue I see coming down the pike. Again, my insights are from my little microcosm, but I think are also true for the US. For the past five years I would sit with every high school senior at my high school and help them navigate the costs of college. We would talk about ACT test scores and their plans for the future. I noticed a trend. Students with ACTs of 30-36 aspired to become doctors. ACTs of 26-30 wanted to be engineers or programmers, while those with a 22-25 wanted to go into a business major. ACTs of 19-22 were interested in nursing. Below an 18? A teacher! No one wants to become a teacher! It has become a path of last resort! Enrollments in the colleges of education at every college across the US are DOWN and decreasing every year! I had an ACT of 32 and never regretted becoming a teacher. It was a fantastic career for me. But it was not lucrative. My children with similar stats went into medicine, finance and accounting software. They saw my struggles and wanted no part of them. Now they are fussing about the quality of education for their own children. Because they make the big bucks they can move into better districts.

I won’t even go on about the increase of segregation due to housing/school district choices.

[Hula Hoop]

Great post - family.  I'm pleased to say that the 18 year old son of family friends, with really high grades and test scores, has decided that he wants to be an elementary school teacher.  I think it helps that his parents aren't in 'lucrative' careers and they have nice, but not extravagant lives (mother is a social worker and father is a mail carrier). 

[MommyCake]

Well I cannot figure out how to quote properly without including entire post.  But,

@MrsPete, I didn't really think about the teachers having/needing to take lower paid jobs in summers.  My only experience comes from an old friend I had who was some type of special needs teacher in the town I was in.  She had explained she had the option of spreading her pay over the entire year, or only during the school year.  She said she took it over the year because it was enough, and she turned down summers, complaining that the city/school wanted her to work every summer and almost an argument when she said no each year.  This is the only teacher I have known personally, and I have since moved and we no longer are close.  I just assumed teachers could work the summer program if they wanted, but maybe not every school does that or not all teachers are offered it. 

@familyandfarming, I do agree with you about the cost per pupil.  As public schools take on those additional special needs students, the cost per pupil DOES increase.  But the facilities that used to care for/educate those students have a decreased budget as their population decreases as they move those special needs kids out of them and into the public schools.  So its not really that we are spending more money, I don't think.  It's just where it is being spent. 

[simonsez]

I guess maybe things are different in the US but where do you get the 60 hours a week from?

60 is admittedly on the higher side but many do that.  The modal and median value is 50 across ALL public teachers.

The rounded up mean value does get close to 60 though when you parse it down to FT elementary teachers. This data point is taken from the Dept of Ed sponsored NTPS (National Teacher & Principal Survey) on the item that asks for total hours spent working during the week, including before and after school, at home, and on weekends.

[umterp1999]

Educator checking in.  I am in a HCOL area, and feel I am paid pretty well, especially when you consider we have excellent health insurance, a pension and strong 403B options with vanguard.  Having said all that I find a lot of ways to supplement income, such as coaching, and my job also comes with allotted summer hours.  My salary definitely puts me into the top 5%.  I also choose to live in a neighboring county where property values are much lower.

On the other hand, some of colleagues are awful with money.  They will complain about not having money, but stop at starbucks on the way to school, have the fanciest Iphone, drive an expensive vehicle.  We get paid on a ten month cycle, and the number of people that are unable to budget for it is staggering.

[mm1970]

This post is slightly off topic but relevant. I’m a long time (38 years and just retired) teacher. I feel like the scientist in a disaster movie who knows the volcano is about to blow, running around telling everyone the volcano is about to blow, but no one cares!

When the election cycle starts up, politicians will go on about how “The costs per pupil are skyrocketing and test scores are going down!” I’m using my school as an example here, but I know what I’m about to write in response to this statement is true throughout the US. In the 38 years I was at my high school, we didn’t hire one additional core teacher! What we did hire more of were special education teachers and staff. In 1980 (when I started) our high school had two special education teachers and zero special education associates. Fast forward to today. We now have four special education teachers and sixteen teacher’s associates! Why? Slowly over time our states have closed down state facilities such as schools for deaf and blind and child psychiatric facilities. Those students are now being served exclusively by schools. Just last year I had three students in my art classroom who had such severe and profound issues, they each had three associates with them at all times. Of course the cost per pupil is higher!

Don’t get me wrong. EVERY student should be served and I think children should be living at home rather than a state facility, but don’t compare cost per pupil with the changing dynamic that has been instituted by every state government out there!

Here’s another educational issue I see coming down the pike. Again, my insights are from my little microcosm, but I think are also true for the US. For the past five years I would sit with every high school senior at my high school and help them navigate the costs of college. We would talk about ACT test scores and their plans for the future. I noticed a trend. Students with ACTs of 30-36 aspired to become doctors. ACTs of 26-30 wanted to be engineers or programmers, while those with a 22-25 wanted to go into a business major. ACTs of 19-22 were interested in nursing. Below an 18? A teacher! No one wants to become a teacher! It has become a path of last resort! Enrollments in the colleges of education at every college across the US are DOWN and decreasing every year! I had an ACT of 32 and never regretted becoming a teacher. It was a fantastic career for me. But it was not lucrative. My children with similar stats went into medicine, finance and accounting software. They saw my struggles and wanted no part of them. Now they are fussing about the quality of education for their own children. Because they make the big bucks they can move into better districts.

I won’t even go on about the increase of segregation due to housing/school district choices.

I definitely see this too.  Our elementary school has sort of the "magnet" program for disabled in our district.  All elementary schools have the ability to handle disabled students, but our school has two full classrooms and 23 staff members for the disabled students.  That is incredibly expensive.

So we need to compare apples to apples, and we aren't.  Our school is a "failing" school - and that's looking at test scores.  Well, duh:
- our disabled population is large, and they are tested
- our poor/ English learner population is also large, because our district allows open transfers to the school one mile down the street - you know, the school where in the first 3 weeks of school, FOUR families donated a cool $100k EACH to the PTO.

[Bobberth]

Yes. There are many situations where more 'badassness' could be applied. That's easy for us on a high savings rate internet forum to judge. What you need to remember is that this article and others like it are basically a 'where are they now 10 years after the financial crisis'. Many school districts use local property taxes for a good chunk of their funding. When the housing crash happened 10 years ago, property tax receipts crashed as well. Many districts froze salaries and some even cut salaries due to decreased funding. 1% was a dream for many teachers even years after the crash. Some districts didn't replace teachers and staff that left to stay afloat and increased the work load on those that remained. With decreased funding, many districts cut back on what they could pay for benefits. Teachers have had a decade of near zero raises while their monthly share of health insurance has increased along with deductibles and copays. That's where the core of this problem lies, inflation adjusted. These teachers salaries, regardless of relative or absolute level, have gone down drastically adjusted for inflation. Even if a teacher was a "badass" saver, for the normal population with a 20% savings rate, due to the inflation adjusted loss of their salary, they may just be treading water now if not below due to health insurance. Those that weren't saving or saving much in the first place, have faced a lower lifestyle.

[Teachstache]

I cannot comment on all of the situations in the story, but from my own experience as an elementary school volunteer in a Title I school and being married to a teacher, most teachers are some of the scrappiest individuals you will find. Especially those teaching in low-income schools. I am impressed all of the time by the way good teachers will pay from their own salary (where I live, starts in the 30s) to buy supplies or things that will enrich learning. They knock themselves out to do extras, like the science teacher who came almost daily prepared to do amazing experiments that wound up turning my “I hate science” daughter into a lover of science. Those of you who have spent full days in a classroom know that it is a job where you have to be “on” constantly, especially with younger kids. My cushy office job where I can sit in silence and think and get up and use the restroom without finding someone to cover for me is such a walk in the park compared with what teachers, who make less than half my salary, do all day — and their work is infinitely more valuable to society than what I do. It’s not a fair world. If it was, teachers would make a lot more money. And where I live, there are no unions. Teachers come in about 7, frequently are there til after 5 for after-school activities and meetings, and then at home they do grading and prep for the next day or field calls and emails from parents.

My husband grits his teeth when he gets the remarks of  “nice to have summers off!” Yes, it is. It gives him a chance to teach three sessions of summer school, freelance as a writer/resume prep person/college entrance essay editor, prepare the next year’s classes, go to lawn maintenance jobs offered on NextDoor and be a somewhat-stay-at-home parent when our kids were small. I am not complaining about our situation. One can always choose something else. I am saying, we should be very, very careful about telling teachers they could be more badass if they just tried harder.

As a teacher (middle school reading) who is married to a community college tech support guy, I love your comment. Thank you. And I go in early & stay late & volunteer my time every week. And I have a doctorate in my field. I worked a second job for 10 years & went to grad school part time while teaching full time. I quit my second job once we paid off our house. It's more than just  being "badass."

[asiljoy]

@familyandfarming, I do agree with you about the cost per pupil.  As public schools take on those additional special needs students, the cost per pupil DOES increase.  But the facilities that used to care for/educate those students have a decreased budget as their population decreases as they move those special needs kids out of them and into the public schools.  So its not really that we are spending more money, I don't think.  It's just where it is being spent.

I think the issue here is that politicians will use that per pupil increase to point to education budgets and say they're wasteful and allocate the budget from the closed facility to something other than the school, so the school's budget stays relatively stagnant in relation to the new tasks they're required to handle. Or did I misunderstand family?

[familyandfarming]

@asiljoy Yes. This is what they have done! My art budget never increased over the years. Enrollments enlarged, and then the state instituted that schools couldn't charge a lab fee. (Free education for everyone, which I agree to!) Before that I had a warehouse in Chicago create a wooden artist's box full of needed art supplies (retail of about $75) that belonged to each student that they got for $13. If a student couldn't afford it, I bought it for them, and then they would leave it in the room for another student to later use.

And then because of the "no lab fee" law, students came into my classroom with nothing in their hands. Rather than fight with 30 kids every hour about what they didn't bring, I just bought beyond what they needed. By the time I retired, I was spending thousands out of my own pocket to augment my budget. (I would buy HUNDREDS of #2 pencils alone! And #2 pencils aren't what you use much in drawing, but at least they had a pencil!)

I was the highest paid teacher in the building because I had a masters and 38 years of experience. My 22 year old fresh out of college made more!

Teaching is a fantastic and fulfilling career! But mark my words, there will be a crisis in finding qualified teachers soon.

[Cranky]

This article/photo spread was just one piece in the NYT Magazine’s annual education issue. I highly recommend that you read the next article in that issue, which is about the teachers’ movement in Arizona, and gives some more detailed numbers about both individual teachers and the state as a whole.

A big part of what is stressing the teachers’ individual budgets is that as the state has cut taxes and education spending, the have pushed much more of the health insurance costs onto the teachers and some people are paying a LOT.

It’s a good article, and worth a read.

[Just Joe]

Yes they could be more badass in some cases. There was a news segment where they spent part of a day with a teacher that drove 75+ miles across a state line out west to make more money. I didn't notice right away but the teacher was driving a V8 4WD to do it. Should teachers be better paid? Absolutely. Should teachers optimize their personal budgets until the situation changes? Absolutely. I have heard people point at the salaries at the school board. I don't know if it is relevant or frustration. Those salaries divided across a school district wouldn't make much difference but I understand the frustration of a teacher making $38K and spending some of their own money to keep their classroom functional while someone at the school board is making many multiples more. 

[NV Teacher]

@asiljoy
Teaching is a fantastic and fulfilling career! But mark my words, there will be a crisis in finding qualified teachers soon.

We are seeing the beginning of that crisis now.  For several years my school district has had hundreds of long term substitute teachers sitting in classrooms all year because they can't hire enough teachers.  They recruit all across the nation and the past few years have begun hiring teachers from the Philippines. 

[Helvegen]

Educator checking in.  I am in a HCOL area, and feel I am paid pretty well, especially when you consider we have excellent health insurance, a pension and strong 403B options with vanguard.  Having said all that I find a lot of ways to supplement income, such as coaching, and my job also comes with allotted summer hours.  My salary definitely puts me into the top 5%.  I also choose to live in a neighboring county where property values are much lower.

On the other hand, some of colleagues are awful with money.  They will complain about not having money, but stop at starbucks on the way to school, have the fanciest Iphone, drive an expensive vehicle.  We get paid on a ten month cycle, and the number of people that are unable to budget for it is staggering.

Must have been the ones striking in my district recently for more pay. They are in the top 3% for pay of all teachers in the state and some of the teachers make more than some engineers at my medical engineering company in a higher COLA. Cry me a river. I mean, if they were topping out at $60k, they might have a point, but they top out well north of six figs and start at mid 50s.

[StarBright]

@asiljoy
Teaching is a fantastic and fulfilling career! But mark my words, there will be a crisis in finding qualified teachers soon.

Anecdotally, a few friends and I have always talked about teaching as our second "passion" career. Out of high school we all got scholarships to go study other things (The ed program we applied for offered no scholarships - but engineering and music and math programs all did) but we talked about going back to school to become teachers in our 40s.

State rules about social security/pensions and the cost of getting the degree vs. the cost of paying off that degree (because of the abysmal pay) have made teaching as a second career a really bad deal for us. At this time none of us are planning on teaching anymore.

I think it is the most valuable work that can be done, but I also feel that people should be paid for doing valuable work. I feel that there is a weird position among many people that educators "owe it" to the state to do important work for lower than average pay because "Think of the children." and that is just gross to me.

Also- my mom has been a para for 30 years (it is her passion job), and she strongly advocated that my brother and I not go into teaching based on how she has seen the career change.

[familyandfarming]

Many of our teachers came into teaching as a second career. They have all said that teaching was harder than they ever thought. They are great teachers and I'm very glad they chose to come to our school!