Grades Don't Matter

[retired?]

If you want to work on Wall Street or in consulting, your grades and your school matter. Forever. They want to know if you are ambitious and a high achiever and grades and school are ways to show it. I was asked for my GPA and had to supply transcripts for every job I ever applied for.

Agree with Wall Street, but don't agree with consulting as much.  I know many a talented, successful consultant who went to a quality school that is unknown to many (e.g. Carleton).

Interestingly, and somewhat surprising, I have never had to directly provide transcripts.  I did sign a form allowing the employer to request them, but I never saw evidence that they did so and on the hiring side, I never heard of them being requested.  I did provide my GPA.

I've worked in asset mgt and commodity trading away from Wall St.  Two things - 1) a snooty degree can hurt more than help away from wall street since it is assumed you don't know how to interact with "the locals" and 2) a person with a degree from a good, but not top public school (e.g. Wisconsin), appears to do as well or better than many with higher quality degrees.

At some point, personality and people skills really, really outweigh school and grades in determining success.

[projekt]

In my opinion, low grades are just an indicator that you shouldn't be in College right now. I think, in general, people who put in the effort get good grades. People put in the effort because they want to learn and are interested in their classes. Low grades are assigned (like in my first time through undergrad) to those who don't do the reading, don't finish assignments, miss class, and drink too much. Higher grades, it turns out, are relatively easy to get if you do the opposite (as in my second time through).

The thing is that you shouldn't focus on the grade. That's like focusing on the stopwatch instead of running as fast as you can. The grade will come, and if you do work you're proud of, you will get good enough grades. Nobody generally cares whether you have a 3.9 or a 3.4, but they do think a 3.1 is kind of not exceptional enough. You can get into med school with a 3.4, but you'll need a great story to do it with a 3.1.

Not stressing about the grade means that you won't annoy your teachers with nitpicking over a few points here and there, and so they'll remember you as the hardworking, insightful one who was there for the class and not the grade. Stressing about the grade means that you'll come across as annoying as people who stress about grades are.

If you think life doesn't need college courses, the solution is to not go to college. But if you think the courses are worthwhile, it's worth doing well in them. You certainly are paying for them.

[OutBy40]

Like others here have mentioned, I don't think grades make much difference outside of very specific circumstances where employment or an internship depends specifically on GPA, or something similar.  I never cared about my grades while in school and skated by doing the absolute least amount of work for the most benefit, and I would definitely consider myself a successful person.

To me, the key is how to live your life and the choices that you make.  Whether you got a C or an A in that college algebra class is relatively meaningless to me.

[SU]

I think grades matter enormously. Maybe not for very long, but when they matter, they really matter.

- they matter in your final year of university when you are applying for jobs and need your professors to write reference letters. If you ask someone who teaches a class of 50+ students and has spoken to you twice in a year for a reference letter, they're going to write a letter for you that states your grade and your ranking relative to the rest of the class. They're not going to go into detail about how well you get on with your peers, how you overcame adversity etc. I know, because I spend a lot of time with people who 'write' these letters by hitting 'print' on a form letter that spits out this exact information.

- they matter if you want post-grad scholarships, and I am sure there are countless examples of people who missed out on thousands of dollars for want of a few grade points. Also, administrators aren't going to spend a heap of time trying to understand how a GPA from school A compares to a GPA from school B. You want a high number and a high relative ranking compared to the rest of your class.

- they matter because they reflect how well you learned the material!

This blogger has thought long and hard about this and I think his ideas are really sound, for example: http://calnewport.com/blog/2008/08/04/monday-master-class-the-biggest-source-of-stress-that-most-students-ignore/

Employers and professional schools will notice your GPA, where you went to school, and your major. They don’t care about about how many credit hours you jammed into each semester or how hard your schedule was compared to others in the same major. The same goes for graduate schools. Though it’s true that specific professors on the admissions committee might look at your grades in the classes relevant to their specialty, they don’t care about the general hardness of your particular schedule.

The implication: once you’ve chosen your major, it’s in your best interest to construct the most reasonable, balanced, low-stress course load possible. Jamming in an unnecessary number of heart-attack courses serves no purpose other than to make your life hell. It won’t make you more impressive to the outside world.

[JustPlainBill]

As one who has reviewed many resume's over to years for prospective hires, I can say that grades are indeed important in order to get your foot in the door for that first job.  Why should I hire a kid with a C+ average when there's a kid with a B+ average (and no obvious intangible qualifications) vying for the same position.

After that, though, and you're a salaried employee of MegaCorp, grades don't matter one damn bit.  It's what you contribute to increasing the bottom line that matters, in most cases.

[Albert]

Why go to University if learning is not something you want to do? There really isn't any good reason not to get decent grades even if they end up not so important later.

[GuitarStv]

Why go to University if learning is not something you want to do? There really isn't any good reason not to get decent grades even if they end up not so important later.

I went to university to get a piece of paper that ensured I'd get a decent paying job.  There's nothing I learned in university that I couldn't have learned at home for a lot less cash.

[Mr.Chipper77]

If your going to pour so much time and effort to get into school why not try to get the best grades while your there.  The grades might not matter for some Jobs and might for others so I don't see why one would not try to do the best they can. Hate to have it come back and bite you in the ass later.

[clarkfan1979]

One could make the argument that grades in high school don't matter. However, higher GPA in high school with give more opportunities to better colleges.

GPA matters for your first job out of college. After that it really doesn't matter. However, the difference in your first job could put you on a completely different path.

The majority of my high earning friends, all had high GPA's  in college. However, maybe it's not the GPA, maybe it's because they are competitive and have drive.

[Cpa Cat]

Cpa firms tend to hire above 3.4. For two years, I did not interview people with a gpa of less than 3.7. I think the sweet spot is a 3.5 or so. Too high and the person tends to be book smart, but lacks the common sense. So i believe grades matter at all levels. Grades are the great filter. They are meaningless after the fact, but you don't get to pass the hurdle without them. Jobs in high school, AP classes, colleges, grad schools, internships, employment are all looking at your academic success.

I'll second this. Below a 3.0, and the resume went straight to the garbage. People didn't get so much as a call for an interview with a 2.x. 3.5 was the cutoff for Big 4 firms. Grades definitely affected starting salary.

You could not get a job as a TA with anything lower than a 3.5. In grad school, that job was a 50% tuition break, a scholarship and a salary. You also couldn't qualify for scholarships from the Business school. These things made my Masters degree basically free. Tens of thousands of dollars in my pocket.

Once people got their first job, then no one cared. But there is definitely a correlation between GPA and ability to pass the CPA exam - and  that matters a lot. The lack of academic drive/skills haunts many accountants as they struggle with the exam. If they can get over that hurdle, then it's a smooth ride - but many give up.

[GetItRight]

Grades absolutely do not matter. I had a ~3.8 GPA with no effort other than show up if required and do the assignments and tests. Some general ed classes I got bad grades, chemistry is one that comes to mind as it was difficult and irrelevant, and also sociology as the prof was a communist and didn't like my questions or the comments/facts/articles/etc I brought up which I'm sure was reflected in my grade as I was otherwise engaged and did assignments as required. I was working 40-50 hours a week (in my field) through most of school and occasionally doing side jobs on weekends, school was a full time course load for 3 years at a school with no summer breaks. I spent time in class typically doing assignments for classes if I had any and if not I worked remotely.

What did good grades get me? Not a thing as my employer never compensated me anything based on grades or even for going to college. Didn't get any scholarships or grants that I tried applying for either. I found being a white male disqualified me from most and being employed exempted me from the rest. There were very few that I was eligible for but the only one that I got was for a $500. Others for similarly small amounts required a large amount of time and work invested in writing essays and paperwork for no guarantee of getting the small prize, it seemed too much like gambling for me considering I was lucky to get 5 hours of sleep most nights. Any extra "work" would be better spent on actual work that I would definitely be paid for.

The end result was that I dropped out after 3 years at university (massive debt), after two years at a community college (debt free). Tuition was increasing at over $10k a year and they outright stole $14k from me one year. The university would not release my transcript to me and wanted almost $50k to take one quarter worth of courses to finish the degree program and graduate. While I've made plenty of mistakes financial and otherwise the only thing I'd go back and change if I could would be going to university. I'd be nearly FI by now if it wasn't for school. I will say two years at community college was overall a beneficial experience for a reasonable cost that I was able to pay as I went and did open doors to jobs from knowing people there (faculty, not students), so while not necessary it certainly didn't hurt.

The best advice I give young folk is do not go to school. It's a scam and a terrible waste of time and money. If you're smart you won't learn anything there as the classes are lowered to the dumbest common denominator, which is usually the uninterested and disruptive types who get all those grants and scholarships that I was not eligible for and get the rest covered with money stolen from me by way of taxes. This infuriated me while I was in school. Higher education in its current form in the US is just a big scam to line the pockets of politicians, bureaucrats, banks, and university administrators.

[BBub]

Maybe a slight trail here, but it's relevant.  The university experience is about more than the gpa.  I would say my time at college was invaluable - not for the grades or coursework, but for the relationships.  A traditional University experience can provide the opportunity to meet other young and bright people with ambitious plans.  And it provides 4 years to develop and nurture those relationships.  Once you leave university it can feel like you're staring at a big brush field with a single machete, and now you're forced to cut a path ahead.  Uni can give you access to a bunch of other machete wielding newbies & you rely on each other throughout the entire journey to share info, tips and introductions to smooth out the rough patches.

Furthermore, most every university has an active alumni network to tap into.  Sure, opportunities won't be handed out on a silver platter, but they are there for the taking if one wishes to seek them out.  It's not every day you can rub elbows with titans of industry, but getting involved with a university business program, certain clubs and events affiliated with your respective field will often put you right within earshot of some of the biggest players in the area.  Make the right impression and opportunity abounds.

I think this idea applies in general - but especially in the corporate environment.  You can be a top performer, but if you aren't good at the relationship side you'll have a hard time making it to the top of the heap.  In fact, I'd say relationships significantly outweigh performance in the short run.  Over time, performance needs to be there as well to keep the relationships strong and sustain high rewards.

[slugline]

Regarding employers asking for transcripts after someone has been in the workforce for years: Is it possible that they don't really care about the grades, but they are concerned about an applicant lying about the degree they list on their resume?

[TrulyStashin]

I told myself in college that I wouldn't be going to grad school & chose to focus on (meaningful) extra-curriculars. I graduated with a respectable, but not stellar, 3.33. I really wanted to go to Carnegie-Mellon for grad school, but I seem to have closed that door to myself circa freshman year 2007.

Life is long, and you never know what path you might decide you want to walk down. It's stupid to close doors unnecessarily, at any phase of your life.

+ 1

I transferred colleges and the school I graduated from wiped out my GPA and let me start fresh.  I earned my BA in 1990 with a 3.58 thanks to the clean slate.  I had no plans for grad school at the time.

Oops.  Decided to pursue a MA in history after a few years of teaching.  The schools I applied to took my 3.58 at face value.  I got into a great program.  Finished my MA in 1998.

Fast forward to 2007 and my decision to pursue law school -- a highly competitive process.  The law school admissions process begins with a national clearinghouse (the LSAC) that calculates your GPA using ALL grades earned at every institution attended prior to finishing the BA.  The result?  My 3.58 was recalculated into a 2.98.

Without doubt, that eliminated me as a candidate for the better law schools and eliminated me from consideration for scholarships.

Don't assume that the life you plan when you're 19 or 20 is the life you'll live.  Low grades reduce your future options -- you're giving the shaft to your future self just as surely as if you spent your student loan money on pizza.

[Vilgan]

I was never once asked for grades or transcripts, but had I applied to Google/Facebook right out of school they might have been relevant then. A few years out of school, they don't matter at all and I can interview wherever I want at will. I don't generally have much respect for grades, but then again I don't have a whole lot of respect for college. I spent my college years bored out of my mind with the glacial speed that classes moved at and ended up spending 98% of my mental energy doing other things and graduated with a very pedestrian 3.2 or something. 4 years and there were a total of 3 classes that I think were truly worthwhile.

I think the more your career field lets you show how amazing you are, the less relevant grades are down the road. If your entire job is to be perceived as being awesome (ex: non technical consulting) then things like grades that add to that perception might be relevant longer. If you are an engineer and can build amazing stuff and point at that, no one gives a crap if you even went to college let alone what your grades were.

My main regret about college isn't the grades. It is that I didn't know how much I really liked software engineering and I didn't realize how cool it is once you are building things for real rather than the crap labs you do in college. I had an opportunity to spend 4 years building cool things, learning things, etc with a lot of professors available to help in that exploration and I didn't take full advantage of it. If I rewound time to do things over again, I would spend a lot more time learning how to build cool things and tapping those resources rather than letting the curriculum dictate what I would spend time on.

[Janie]

Transcripts are commonly requested with federal job applications.

[Gerard]

I've always had good marks, but with hindsight I realize the work and time that I invested in getting from a 90% to a 93% would have been better spent getting more experience (volunteer or otherwise).

In terms of hiring, or even grad school, there's so many variables involved in grades that there are definitely diminishing returns on increasing grades past a certain point, even for graduate school admissions. I went to a an info session last month where I learned that our university treats a 65% from some countries the same as an 80% from others.

If your grades are very low, on the other hand, I agree with some other posters that you might want to reconsider why you're in university. In my experience, somebody with a C generally doesn't know the stuff that the course covered.

[trailrated]

somebody with a C generally doesn't know the stuff that the course covered.

OP here graduated from college with a C average. While I agree, 95% of the coursework was completely irrelevant to any field I have been involved in. The things that have helped me immensely in developing the skills I now get paid for were the leadership roles within the Fraternity I was involved in, along with the jobs I carried through my 4 years in college. 

So I agree I did not soak up a whole lot from the courses itself, college (at least the atmosphere and the opportunities to learn that I did take advantage of) has laid the groundwork for a successful career.

[anisotropy]

grades matter a lot in my experience. many good paying graduate positions (75k+ salary to start, benefits and bonus extra) require one to have at least 3.4 gpa or 2:1 if you live in the uk.

These good paying jobs will become around 120k+ salary in 6-7 years.

and if you don't have the grades? well, there are plenty of 50k a year jobs which typically caps at 80k/year after 10 years.

if you "lose" at the starting line it will take many years of hard work and luck to make up for it.

[Indexer]

Working in finance GPA matters a lot.  When I graduated many jobs had requirements for GPA, especially any job that required getting various securities licenses.  Passing a Series 7 general securities exam is a breeze for anyone who has a 3.0 or higher GPA with a finance degree, it will require some study for business/math majors with a 3.0GPA, its difficult for anyone with a 3.0GPA in another major, and nearly impossible even after months of study for someone with a 2.5 or lower.  Companies invest tens of thousands of dollars sending new hires through months of training, and if they fail the licensing exam... its all a waste.  So most big financial firms require a 3.0 before they will even consider giving you an interview. 

So yes, at least in the financial industry your GPA matters a great deal.  I've seen people who lacked a 3.0 get jobs, but most of them landed interviews because they managed to get other securities licenses first to prove they at least had the basics.

[NICE!]

...Not to mention the fact that a consulting firm like McKenzie won't even look at you unless you're near the top in every way. Oh and they make you take a test, too.

[Cottonswab]

Grades did and do matter for me. 

I studied engineering and graduated with a 3.5 GPA.  I would not have been offered highly paid and highly competitive jobs without having good grades from a good school. 

When recruiting and managing engineering graduates from the top schools for a large, old school company, there is a high correlation between grades and job performance up to ~3.8 GPA. 

I have worked in/with organizations that have much lower hiring and performance standards, and I really disliked it.  Most people will likely find the most enjoyment from their jobs, when they are working with people of similar academic achievement.  I would avoid applying to engineering jobs where the GPA cut off is significantly below my GPA or they do not review academic records.

[Latwell]

I have a little sister in college and she was going on an on about grades in certain classes. Then it hit me...grades do not matter once you are in college. At. All. (Unless you are going to grad school/Law School/Med School) I am not saying you should cruise by with minimal effort and not try to learn, but stressing out between an A or B is ridiculous unless your scholarship depends on it.

The lessons that I learned in college were from the jobs I worked, the people I met, and the organizations I was a part of. All those things had nothing to do with a grade in any class. I do not think I have ever heard of someone getting preferential treatment because their GPA was on a resume. In fact I think I had one of the lower GPA's of all my friends and I am making more than the majority of them at my current job because of the other skills I learned.

Anyone else care to share their experiences?

I had a conversation w/ a customer at work. Turns out she was an HR person for a firm I wanted to work for. The major reason she offered me her card and later forwarded my resume to the right people was because I mentioned my GPA.

Although networking is very important, your GPA does matter in many fields of study. In accounting firms, most places won't even look at your resume if you have a GPA lower than 3.0 unless you have experience in accounting already or your CPA license.

[lizzzi]

I'm thinking back to my nursing school days…first an associate's degree in nursing from a community college, and ten years later, my BSN from a state university. You better believe I got top grades…and it mattered. My courses were all about how to care for people in an up-close-and-personal, hands-on, life and death kind of way. Would you prefer the top nursing graduate or the "average" C-student nursing graduate caring for your loved one? Giving them their meds, carefully changing their complicated dressings using sterile technique, inserting catheters or naso-gastric tubes, starting IVs…assessing them for effectiveness of treatment…or not. I don't think it's possible to put a letter grade on the "X factors" of caring, compassion, empathy…things that are hard to define and what really make a good health care provider. Or on professional common sense…again, hard to define. But many factors are quantifiable in health care, and you are going to want the provider who scored 100% on the medication test, or the demonstration of aseptic technique. And so on.

[monarda]

Grades are very often reflecting only a part of someone's ability. Certainly reflects a person's ability to take tests. Often reflects memorization, short term problem solving ability, ability to think on your feet (rapidly).  For certain fields this is really important.  There are high GPA "book smart" people who are really not good in a practical sense. Not at all good with their hands.

When I interview students to work with me, I look for someone both good with their hands as well as someone who 'gets' the concepts. Someone who really wants to be there. This is not so tightly related to their grades.  My best workers are often B students in their classes.  I don't ever ask for their GPA when they apply.

I changed my concentration part-way through college, from a field where I was getting all A's (but not interested), to a field where I was getting B's but couldn't stop reading and reading. I later got a Ph.D. in that field.
Grades don't matter to me.  Now, sometimes I teach college courses. It's really hard for me to be nitpicky about giving out + and - modifiers on letter grades at some schools where I teach. But they make me. ugh.  I teach because I love to share what I know. It's cool stuff. It's fun seeing someone get excited about what I share with them. And I get that only a few people in my courses will get excited about this stuff. And that's okay. So what will their grade reflect? Their ability to do well on assignments and exams I come up with.

I wonder about mustachians who have high paying jobs that they can't wait to leave. I could be long-ago in FIRE now if I'd picked my original undergraduate A-getting field, and earned 6 figures early on. But those years before FIRE would have been SO miserable.  I know this, because I tried it.

I would never want to work at a place that thought grades mattered. I help my students nearing graduation think about this for their first job interviews, or grad school interviews. I help them demonstrate in an interview that they are qualified, and that they've done their due diligence. I make the point that in the interview, they are interviewing the employer or the grad program, not just the other direction. I'm happy when my students turn down job offers where it wasn't a good fit.

Related to the previous post- I'd like to see my health care providers interested in everything. Or, at least, many things. Moving medicine forward requires creative and critical thinking in medical practice.  Is that always related to good grades in school?  No.  Is it likely related to some good grades in school? I suppose. Or only maybe. Related to ability to do well on standardized tests? I don't think so.     Aseptic technique? Pass/fail. Either you're sterile or you're not.

A grade-centric world makes me grumpy. People who 'teach to the test' make me super grumpy.

tl;dr
So, don't do what you do for the grades.

(/rant) this turn out longer than anticipated

[lizzzi]

Right, Monarda…but you want the nurse who Passed the test on aseptic technique.   : D

[Skyhigh]

C's get degrees !!  Good grades suggests certain abilities and disabilities. In the long run however ability outweighs grades in my experience.

[ShockingBuggy]

I have a strange opinion on this, I think.  I am going to say that grades DO matter, but they kind of meaningless too. 

So the reasons why they do matter:  1.  it's a measure of how well you handle an academic environment and digest course material.  2. A lot of things care about what this is.  If you are planning to move on in school or get hired by someone else, then you need to have do well on the scale that matters to them. To think otherwise is kind of useless.

Now why I think they are meaningless.  So, I had an interesting reversal in my academic career with college.  Before then, I was a super straight A student (in the top 30 of a class of 1000 and super high SAT scores), and then I went to one of the top engineering programs in the country who was famous for it's lack of grade inflation.  Apparently so much that there were only 7 people in the history of the school who graduated with a 4.0.  I kind of floundered while I was there because I had undiagnosed learning disabilities that weren't even close to tested until I got to such a rigorous environment, but I ended up dropping out for completely unrelated reasons (my parents had issues with the IRS, and that was a game ender for me because apparently the only way my parents were able to afford my school was taking out giant loans, which you cannot do when you have an IRS lien)  Even when I left, my GPA was a 2.2.  Not kick out of school bad but not great.  However what I can tell you is I have never learned so much of anything in my life in those years.  I self-study a lot these days, but half of what I can do in math and science is thanks to what that school taught me.  I'm currently a tutor who works with mostly students with learning disabilities and I credit that school for teaching me all the things I am passing on to my students, but I guess even more so, it taught me a bunch of humility about learning and how incredibly difficult academia could be.  I would never ever trade anything for what I got out of there.

So while I waited for my parents to figure out their financial situation (hint:  it's 5 years later and surprise surprise, it's still a thing), I went to a local community college, and had straight A's in class while working a near full time job, and I read books in class.  Now that I'm an independent student and finance my own schooling (so much nicer because I am in control), I'm at a more vocational type night school, and also again have a near perfect GPA. I have some bad grades when my business gets busy, especially during midterms and finals, but honestly, I'm okay with that because I am actually not sure how important my GPA is going to be as I continue in my work.  I am finishing the degree and the teaching credential because at this point, I'm a few months from graduating so why not.   My tutoring business is really flourishing and what seems to matter is if I know the material (and thanks to college 1 I do)and how well I can teach it.  I do miss out on some students because they want the ones who finished the fancier colleges, but I love the students who do take a chance on me, because they need someone who would be empathetic to them and their needs.  I am happy with where I am because I stumbled ass backward into a decently successful job that is highly rewarding and I'm grateful for it.  Though, I'm not naive, so I know that because it worked for me, it might not work for everyone else either.

Anyway what I was trying to make from this is that it's weird to me that we measure GPA using the same numbers, when it's been super clear to me that a number measured from one source is clearly different from another.  I think my education from college 1 was way more important than from the community college and now current school, but GPA in college 1 said I learned nothing by what some of the commenters in this thread has said, but in the other schools, it says that I learned a lot, which has been kind of patently untrue since I can get those grades while going through the motions.  Just my personal experience here.

[Albert]

For me learning has always been important and getting good grades used to be a matter of pride and a  competitive sport. There were some subjects in high school I didn't care about (like languages which was a mistake) so my average wasn't sky high, but in science and math I was top of a class. Chemistry was and is my passion, by the last year of high school I knew the subject as well or better than my teacher and had a permission to skip the class entirely. My greatest "accomplishment" as far as grades are concerned was taking and passing a general chemistry exam during the first year of university with the best grade in a class just three weeks after lectures started. Me and another similarly accomplished student just went to a professor and told him that his class is useless for us because we already know all of it. Arrogance of the young, I guess... That class had an overall pass rate of only 60-70%. When I moved to US for grad school I was the best student in every class I ever took. It wasn't an elite school and some grading was relative, but still. Now I work as a research scientist mostly with similarly high achieving people. In fact that's the most enjoyable part of my work.

What's my advice? Don't be average and strive for the best. There are no downsides to it and you never know when it might be useful.

[lizzzi]

Wow, Albert. That rocks! "Don't be average, and strive for the best." I did all right in chemistry, where I took extra courses just for fun…but nothing like what you accomplished. Congratulations on your successes…very impressive.

[civil]

My GPA mattered!
After my third year of university, I informed my advisor that I was dropping out because I was out of money. My plan was to work (I had already been working full time) and to consider trying again for that last year of college after I saved enough for tuition. My advisor told the dean, and I got a nice phone call about how I couldn't leave because I had the second-highest GPA in the architecture school. I said that didn't pay the bills, and the dean proceeded to find me a scholarship that would cover my tuition and most of my living expenses for the last year of university. This school spent so much effort weeding out students in years 1 and 2 that it would look bad to lose someone after year 3.

GPA mattered again when I was applying for grad school. I studied my second-choice major in undergrad because my first choice (engineering) would likely not allow me to work full time while attending school full time. So when I wanted to study engineering in grad school, without an undergrad engineering degree, the GPA was extremely important.

It also mattered for internships and for most of my jobs during college (I was working for government, and they like to have GPA hiring standards).

[Albert]

Wow, Albert. That rocks! "Don't be average, and strive for the best." I did all right in chemistry, where I took extra courses just for fun…but nothing like what you accomplished. Congratulations on your successes…very impressive.

Thanks. I'm unusual because I knew very early, around age 15, what I wanted to be a chemist and I never changed my mind except deciding against academic career at some point during grad school. As for good grades some of it is determination and some is natural ability. I have an outstanding long term memory, very useful for an organic chemist.

There is no straight correlation between grades and success later in life, but I'm convinced there is some. Particularly if we look far apart on  a performance scale, say 50th percentile and 90th.

[mydogismyheart]

Grades sure mattered when I was in college about 10 years ago.  I had to have a 3.0 GPA in order to get into my major, most majors were like that.  So for the 1st 2 years I took all the regular classes, then I went into the teaching program and to do that had to have a 3.0.  Also had to have a 3.0 in order to graduate from the teaching program.  It was that way in most of the programs at that college.  So yeah, didn't have to be perfect, but did have to be careful.

[Joel]

The main benefit happens after you finish college. A high GPA means minimal if you are a college dropout...

Grades absolutely do not matter. I had a ~3.8 GPA with no effort other than show up if required and do the assignments and tests. Some general ed classes I got bad grades, chemistry is one that comes to mind as it was difficult and irrelevant, and also sociology as the prof was a communist and didn't like my questions or the comments/facts/articles/etc I brought up which I'm sure was reflected in my grade as I was otherwise engaged and did assignments as required. I was working 40-50 hours a week (in my field) through most of school and occasionally doing side jobs on weekends, school was a full time course load for 3 years at a school with no summer breaks. I spent time in class typically doing assignments for classes if I had any and if not I worked remotely.

What did good grades get me? Not a thing as my employer never compensated me anything based on grades or even for going to college. Didn't get any scholarships or grants that I tried applying for either. I found being a white male disqualified me from most and being employed exempted me from the rest. There were very few that I was eligible for but the only one that I got was for a $500. Others for similarly small amounts required a large amount of time and work invested in writing essays and paperwork for no guarantee of getting the small prize, it seemed too much like gambling for me considering I was lucky to get 5 hours of sleep most nights. Any extra "work" would be better spent on actual work that I would definitely be paid for.

The end result was that I dropped out after 3 years at university (massive debt), after two years at a community college (debt free). Tuition was increasing at over $10k a year and they outright stole $14k from me one year. The university would not release my transcript to me and wanted almost $50k to take one quarter worth of courses to finish the degree program and graduate. While I've made plenty of mistakes financial and otherwise the only thing I'd go back and change if I could would be going to university. I'd be nearly FI by now if it wasn't for school. I will say two years at community college was overall a beneficial experience for a reasonable cost that I was able to pay as I went and did open doors to jobs from knowing people there (faculty, not students), so while not necessary it certainly didn't hurt.

The best advice I give young folk is do not go to school. It's a scam and a terrible waste of time and money. If you're smart you won't learn anything there as the classes are lowered to the dumbest common denominator, which is usually the uninterested and disruptive types who get all those grants and scholarships that I was not eligible for and get the rest covered with money stolen from me by way of taxes. This infuriated me while I was in school. Higher education in its current form in the US is just a big scam to line the pockets of politicians, bureaucrats, banks, and university administrators.

[Joel]

GPAs matter. There is no doubt about that. There is plenty of opportunity for those with lower GPAs still, but more opportunities open up for those with higher GPAs directly out of school. You may not be asked for your GPA again, but your career history will reflect a job that required that high GPA. For example, in the accounting world, you need a 3.4 or higher to start at a big four. The experience there along with your CPA are requirements for many additional jobs. Although I may never be asked for my GPA again, it's known based on my experience. That's not to say others weren't successful. But a high GPA is important, it's not the only thing either though.