Author Topic: got refi?  (Read 13205 times)

EricEng

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2020, 12:43:45 AM »
Question: our rate lock for 2.75 expires the day before we are scheduled for closing. They are honoring the rate, but since rates appear to have dropped further since we locked in Oct, can I ask them for a better rate when our lock expires? Or is that not a thing?
Rate locking is weird, especially when it is dropping.  Not sure.

charis

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2020, 07:37:08 AM »
Question: our rate lock for 2.75 expires the day before we are scheduled for closing. They are honoring the rate, but since rates appear to have dropped further since we locked in Oct, can I ask them for a better rate when our lock expires? Or is that not a thing?
Rate locking is weird, especially when it is dropping.  Not sure.

I did a little research and it looks like we'd probably have to go to a different lender to try for a lower rate at this point. Closing costs are a little over 2k (rolled into loan), which was the best I could find. I don't know how people are getting no cost refi.

MudPuppy

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2020, 07:50:07 AM »
I couldn’t get no cost, either. I just did a 30y fixed refi from 3.875 (from 2017) to 2.6 in TN. All closing and title fees were about 2.5k, rolled into the loan.

ctuser1

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2020, 10:01:00 AM »
I just closed on a 12Y version of this refi: https://www.sikorskycu.org/Borrow/Loans/Mortgages/Advantage-Mortgage.

This was a cash-out refi. I took $11.5k cash out so that I can pay off my $19.5k solar loan. Rate: 2.5% APY, 2.531% APR. Fee = $749. Lowered my rate from 3.25%.

I had 12 years left on my 15Y mortgage, so the time to payoff is the same as before. My monthly payment is $50 lower even with the $11.5k cash out.

I did consider the 8Y version, but the difference in rate was not enough to justify it. Perhaps if rates dip further in 2021 (likely, IMO), I will refi again to the 8Y version.

EricEng

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2020, 10:56:48 PM »
I did a little research and it looks like we'd probably have to go to a different lender to try for a lower rate at this point. Closing costs are a little over 2k (rolled into loan), which was the best I could find. I don't know how people are getting no cost refi.
It varies by lender.  Usually the interest rate is slightly higher.  Watermark loans was usually looking to offer me a no cost refi around going rates.

Holocene

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2020, 11:42:59 PM »
I did a little research and it looks like we'd probably have to go to a different lender to try for a lower rate at this point. Closing costs are a little over 2k (rolled into loan), which was the best I could find. I don't know how people are getting no cost refi.
It varies by lender.  Usually the interest rate is slightly higher.  Watermark loans was usually looking to offer me a no cost refi around going rates.
This.

It's basically the opposite of points.  Instead of paying extra to lower the interest rate, you accept a higher interest rate in exchange for lender credits.  I recently refinanced with LenderFI.  They gave me a credit of around $1200 which covered all title costs, random fees, and taxes.  They did not charge an origination fee, so the only cost was some prepaid interest which got rolled into the loan.  I could have gotten a lower rate and paid the costs or rolled them into the loan, but the payoff would have been 4-5 years and wasn't worth it to me.  My loan balance is small and closing costs can vary quite a bit based on location so YMMV.

I think most lenders lock you into a rate schedule.  So you could decide to buy points or go for a lender credit but the base rate stays the same once you're locked.  If you're interested, you could ask your current lender about possible lender credits and what that rate would be.  Then do some math on the break-even and see if it's worth it.  The nice thing about no-cost is that you can refinance again if rates drop and you haven't lost anything.

I'd say it's worth at least shopping around if rates have dropped and your lock expires.  If you find something better, maybe your existing lender will match.  If not, maybe you're willing to walk away and maybe you're not.  Seems worth a try anyway.

Anon-E-Mouze

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2021, 11:54:17 AM »
Not exactly a refi, but our 3-year mortgage was coming up for renewal as of May 1. When I logged onto my bank's website yesterday, there was an easy renewal offer. I know there might have been a slightly better offer somewhere else, if I'd shopped around but I also knew it would be a hassle to deal with the documentation etc, and this was a good deal (better than the publicly posted offer on the bank's website). And the whole process took 30 seconds.

So I locked in a 4-year mortgage at 1.69%, which is half our current mortgage rate and .25% below the advertised 5-year promotional offer, and I also shaved the last 3 months off our mortgage at the higher rate. (This is Canada, so no fees, no points, etc.) The mortgage includes the standard flexible prepayment options (15% of the original balance per year, plus the option of doubling any and all mortgage payments at any time).

We have a fairly large mortgage because we moved back to Canada only a few years ago and bought the house in a HICOL city. We're already FI and in four years we'll be seriously considering retiring, so the mortgage term matches our plans well.

albireo13

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2021, 07:42:06 AM »
We just closed on a refi with Loan Depot.  Went from 3.625% to 2.625% ....  30yr fixed, $600 closing cost.
Dropped our monthly mortgage payment by $200.
We are in the "don't worry about carrying a mortgage" club.   
Our planned expenses include the mortgage and we are financially fine with that.


Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2021, 05:14:44 PM »
albireo13-- glad to hear you had a good experience w/ Loan Depot. How long did the process take?

They are the only lender that pops up in my searches and I'm intrigued: if we buy a few points we can get down to 2.125% on a 30yr fixed jumbo. That seems too good to be true... and the many negative reviews of Loan Depot seem to imply that it might indeed be too good to be true. But you had a good experience?

frugalnacho

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2021, 10:04:55 AM »
The best I've been able to find for a cash out refi is 2.875% with $2.2k closing costs.  Or a different lender I can get 2.625%, but with $1.8k closing costs and $4k points. 

It hardly seems worth it with such high closing costs and points.  Every lender I speak with won't shut the fuck up about my payments.  "So what are you trying to get your payment to be?" "what kind of payment do you want?" "Well, what's your target monthly payment?".  I keep telling them the monthly payment is irrelevant I just need them to give me the rate and the total closing costs and I can do the math on my own.

bacchi

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2021, 10:27:45 AM »
The best I've been able to find for a cash out refi is 2.875% with $2.2k closing costs.  Or a different lender I can get 2.625%, but with $1.8k closing costs and $4k points. 

It hardly seems worth it with such high closing costs and points.  Every lender I speak with won't shut the fuck up about my payments.  "So what are you trying to get your payment to be?" "what kind of payment do you want?" "Well, what's your target monthly payment?".  I keep telling them the monthly payment is irrelevant I just need them to give me the rate and the total closing costs and I can do the math on my own.

Same. I'd love to get a <3% mortgage but it's just not happening.

couponvan

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2021, 12:21:29 PM »
albireo13-- glad to hear you had a good experience w/ Loan Depot. How long did the process take?

They are the only lender that pops up in my searches and I'm intrigued: if we buy a few points we can get down to 2.125% on a 30yr fixed jumbo. That seems too good to be true... and the many negative reviews of Loan Depot seem to imply that it might indeed be too good to be true. But you had a good experience?

We refi'd with them no cost 2.5% in November. It was a wonderful experience on the sales side, but the actual closing was a long and drawn out process and we were constantly following up with them vs. them even trying to follow up with us.  It ultimately worked out in the end, but our lock expired in the meantime and it wasn't a smooth experience.  That being said, 2.5% 30yr Fixed is GREAT!  We're just at the conforming rate for our area of $510K.  We don't plan to prepay anything and will use our investments to pay the mortgage in FIRE even. (Or we'll sell the house and downsize to a smaller one.)

charis

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2021, 02:10:26 PM »
albireo13-- glad to hear you had a good experience w/ Loan Depot. How long did the process take?

They are the only lender that pops up in my searches and I'm intrigued: if we buy a few points we can get down to 2.125% on a 30yr fixed jumbo. That seems too good to be true... and the many negative reviews of Loan Depot seem to imply that it might indeed be too good to be true. But you had a good experience?

We refi'd with them no cost 2.5% in November. It was a wonderful experience on the sales side, but the actual closing was a long and drawn out process and we were constantly following up with them vs. them even trying to follow up with us.  It ultimately worked out in the end, but our lock expired in the meantime and it wasn't a smooth experience.  That being said, 2.5% 30yr Fixed is GREAT!  We're just at the conforming rate for our area of $510K.  We don't plan to prepay anything and will use our investments to pay the mortgage in FIRE even. (Or we'll sell the house and downsize to a smaller one.)

This is our plan too.  We plan to increase investments in our kids 529 accounts and finally open a brokerage account that we can use later to pay the mortgage, in full, early or keep in the 'stache, if we ultimately decide to keep the mortgage.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2021, 08:50:19 AM »
Wow, so this is frustrating.

LenderFI showed us 2.0-2.5 APR rates with our basic info (including that it would be a jumbo refi), but after I filled out the application - and generated a hard credit inquiry - we were offered nothing lower than 4.75 which is what we are at now.

I can't figure out why. Our credit score is 800. We have $2m in assets, several years of mortgage payments in liquid accounts, and no other liabilities. My income is down this year from covid, but I am still employed and *thought* I earned enough to qualify.

The bait and switch really pisses me off.

Jack0Life

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2021, 09:15:48 AM »
Wow, so this is frustrating.

LenderFI showed us 2.0-2.5 APR rates with our basic info (including that it would be a jumbo refi), but after I filled out the application - and generated a hard credit inquiry - we were offered nothing lower than 4.75 which is what we are at now.

I can't figure out why. Our credit score is 800. We have $2m in assets, several years of mortgage payments in liquid accounts, and no other liabilities. My income is down this year from covid, but I am still employed and *thought* I earned enough to qualify.

The bait and switch really pisses me off.

Reading your post, "bait and switch" first came to my mind and at the end you mentioned it.
It also happened to me so I hate these national lenders that advertised such low rates.
I'm a bit jealous of all those who were able to get such great rates.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2021, 09:26:22 AM »
Wow, so this is frustrating.

LenderFI showed us 2.0-2.5 APR rates with our basic info (including that it would be a jumbo refi), but after I filled out the application - and generated a hard credit inquiry - we were offered nothing lower than 4.75 which is what we are at now.

I can't figure out why. Our credit score is 800. We have $2m in assets, several years of mortgage payments in liquid accounts, and no other liabilities. My income is down this year from covid, but I am still employed and *thought* I earned enough to qualify.

The bait and switch really pisses me off.
Yeah, I have the same issue. I wonder if it is because of which state you are in but you would think that would be considered in the basic information.



I have a 2.875% 15-year in Wisconsin. My current bank is 2.625% now with '$1,300 closing costs' per website, but don't think this includes the new fee. I refinanced in May. Feel I refinanced at a weird time where I got a descent rate but not a really good one. Now the new rates are close enough where it could make math sense just to tease me but not enough for the friction /length of payback period.

PVkcin

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2021, 03:07:02 PM »
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.

couponvan

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2021, 03:27:22 PM »
Wow, so this is frustrating.

LenderFI showed us 2.0-2.5 APR rates with our basic info (including that it would be a jumbo refi), but after I filled out the application - and generated a hard credit inquiry - we were offered nothing lower than 4.75 which is what we are at now.

I can't figure out why. Our credit score is 800. We have $2m in assets, several years of mortgage payments in liquid accounts, and no other liabilities. My income is down this year from covid, but I am still employed and *thought* I earned enough to qualify.

The bait and switch really pisses me off.

What state? Is it owner occupied or has a rental attached?  Cap Center and loanDepot have been the cheapest, albeit loanDepot was a PITA. You sound very much like our numbers.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2021, 03:29:04 PM »
Wow, so this is frustrating.

LenderFI showed us 2.0-2.5 APR rates with our basic info (including that it would be a jumbo refi), but after I filled out the application - and generated a hard credit inquiry - we were offered nothing lower than 4.75 which is what we are at now.

I can't figure out why. Our credit score is 800. We have $2m in assets, several years of mortgage payments in liquid accounts, and no other liabilities. My income is down this year from covid, but I am still employed and *thought* I earned enough to qualify.

The bait and switch really pisses me off.

What state? Is it owner occupied or has a rental attached?  Cap Center and loanDepot have been the cheapest, albeit loanDepot was a PITA. You sound very much like our numbers.

MA. Owner occupied. No rentals. Close to 70% LTV. I'll try LoanDepot...

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2021, 07:20:51 AM »
As an update: I've continued to shop around, and spoke by phone to Amerisave yesterday. They are willing to offer 2.0%/30yr with points, and I learned something new that explains what happened with LenderFI. These awesome rates are apparently only for conforming mortgages (not jumbo) and every county has its own conforming loan limit amount. My application to LenderFI included a cash out amount that put us over the conforming limit, although our outstanding mortgage by itself is under that limit. I've asked LenderFI to remove the cash out amount and see what we can get. Meanwhile, I'll contact Loan Depot today.

So, a little PSA, especially for those in HCOL areas who might have large mortgages: know what your county's conforming loan limit is: https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicostlook.cfm

« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 07:23:24 AM by Freedom2016 »

frugalnacho

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2021, 07:41:55 AM »
The best I've been able to find for a cash out refi is 2.875% with $2.2k closing costs.  Or a different lender I can get 2.625%, but with $1.8k closing costs and $4k points. 

It hardly seems worth it with such high closing costs and points.  Every lender I speak with won't shut the fuck up about my payments.  "So what are you trying to get your payment to be?" "what kind of payment do you want?" "Well, what's your target monthly payment?".  I keep telling them the monthly payment is irrelevant I just need them to give me the rate and the total closing costs and I can do the math on my own.

Still frustrated at most of the lenders I spoke with.  Almost every single one gave me a greasy car salesman vibe.  "So what's your current payment, and what's your budget? What kind of payment are you looking to pay?"

Bitch I'm looking for you to be transparent give me the damn rate and the closing costs.  That's it.  I already have rate/cost estimates from other lenders and I just want to know what you're offering, I don't need you to walk me through the monthly payments, I don't want to discuss my family and future financial goals and build rapport with you, and I don't want to go in depth explaining how this fits into my FIRE strategy.  You ran my credit, you know my income, so just tell me what you are offering!

We ended up going with the local credit union we bank with for 30 yr fixed 2.875% w/ $2.4k closing costs, cash out 75% LTV, net cash out to us $117k.   There was apparently $185 more in fees bringing the total up higher than my initial post.  They are planning to service the loan themselves and not resell it.  They also are allowing us to not do an escrow account and just pay our taxes and insurance on our own, which we've been doing for years. 

martyconlonontherun

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2021, 09:18:39 AM »
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.
1. I found it harder to find decent cards than it is to hit the MSR. My wife and I are basically 15/24, so trying to keep to biz cards so we can get more Chase Cards. You can always find ways to manufacture spend, whether it is offering to organize a group trip, paying family member expenses for a 'discount', etc. My parents won't churn, so I will take the sign-up bonus and give them the 'cash back' they would've received with their debit card.
2. Always do the math. You are saving like 8% on the loan right? Take the money and run. If you wife is concerned, put the $130 into a monthly travel fund/pay taxes at <3% with a credit card.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2021, 10:48:50 AM »
Bitch I'm looking for you to be transparent give me the damn rate and the closing costs.  That's it.  I already have rate/cost estimates from other lenders and I just want to know what you're offering, I don't need you to walk me through the monthly payments, I don't want to discuss my family and future financial goals and build rapport with you, and I don't want to go in depth explaining how this fits into my FIRE strategy.  You ran my credit, you know my income, so just tell me what you are offering!

I'm with ya. It's freaking numbers and simple math, it's not some unknown situation.
With our first mortgage no one would give me their comparable summary sheet so I made one in Excel: each row was a type of cost, each company was given a labeled column (A, B, ...), and I told them to fill it out. Their "but you can't really compare us to them" BS turned into "ok, we can lower this fee to come in lower than Company C".

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #73 on: January 06, 2021, 11:04:50 AM »
Bitch I'm looking for you to be transparent give me the damn rate and the closing costs.  That's it.  I already have rate/cost estimates from other lenders and I just want to know what you're offering, I don't need you to walk me through the monthly payments, I don't want to discuss my family and future financial goals and build rapport with you, and I don't want to go in depth explaining how this fits into my FIRE strategy.  You ran my credit, you know my income, so just tell me what you are offering!

I'm with ya. It's freaking numbers and simple math, it's not some unknown situation.
With our first mortgage no one would give me their comparable summary sheet so I made one in Excel: each row was a type of cost, each company was given a labeled column (A, B, ...), and I told them to fill it out. Their "but you can't really compare us to them" BS turned into "ok, we can lower this fee to come in lower than Company C".

The greasy salesman crap does indeed suck.

For what it's worth, I've had two very straightforward conversations with Amerisave and now LoanDepot where they are cutting to the chase with me -- "at this rate, it's X in points, Y in closing costs, with total cash to close Z." I mean there has been some chit-chat between them running numbers, but it's been pleasant and not slimy-feeling so far.

Jack0Life

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2021, 11:26:23 AM »
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.

This is a no brainer.
i play the CC bonuses too but the your refi savings is way beyond that. $120x12 is $1440 each year.
Even if you like signing up for new CC and need an outlet to spend the require amount, you can find others.

PVkcin

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2021, 01:31:32 PM »
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.

This is a no brainer.
i play the CC bonuses too but the your refi savings is way beyond that. $120x12 is $1440 each year.
Even if you like signing up for new CC and need an outlet to spend the require amount, you can find others.
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.
1. I found it harder to find decent cards than it is to hit the MSR. My wife and I are basically 15/24, so trying to keep to biz cards so we can get more Chase Cards. You can always find ways to manufacture spend, whether it is offering to organize a group trip, paying family member expenses for a 'discount', etc. My parents won't churn, so I will take the sign-up bonus and give them the 'cash back' they would've received with their debit card.
2. Always do the math. You are saving like 8% on the loan right? Take the money and run. If you wife is concerned, put the $130 into a monthly travel fund/pay taxes at <3% with a credit card.



Thanks to both of you for the insight. I needed a small face punch (and second set of eyes) to see if I was being dumb by not refinancing, just because of being able to pay my mortgage with my credit card.

I am filling out an application to get some of the numbers in writing, so it's likely I'll end up refinancing. Thanks again for your ideas and input.

Jack0Life

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2021, 02:19:34 PM »
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.

This is a no brainer.
i play the CC bonuses too but the your refi savings is way beyond that. $120x12 is $1440 each year.
Even if you like signing up for new CC and need an outlet to spend the require amount, you can find others.
We are also shopping around to potentially refinance.

Currently at 3.675/30 year (we are only 15 months in to the mortgage but have about 73% LTV). My local credit union lets me pay my payment (P+I+Taxes+Ins) of $1827 with a credit card. So I rack up some nice credit card bonuses/points.

The credit union is offering terrible refinance quotes, they are quoting around $4k closing costs to only drop my rate to 3.25. So I have ruled out refinancing with them as it would take years to recoup the costs.

However,

I got some quotes online and spoke to somebody after that offered 2.875% no closing costs for a 30 yr. In that case we would save about $130/month, but wouldn't be able to pay with a credit card anymore. I'm torn bc I play the credit card game pretty hard to pay for most of our travels. My wife is worried I won't want to travel as much if we have to pay out of pocket for trips, which is true.

Just wanted to throw this out to the community to get your thoughts. Refi to save $120/mo (but can't pay with credit card) but it'd be much harder to rack up credit card points and/or meet the minimum spend on to get sign up bonuses, or keep current 3.675/30 year?

Anybody have thoughts? Appreciate any input.
1. I found it harder to find decent cards than it is to hit the MSR. My wife and I are basically 15/24, so trying to keep to biz cards so we can get more Chase Cards. You can always find ways to manufacture spend, whether it is offering to organize a group trip, paying family member expenses for a 'discount', etc. My parents won't churn, so I will take the sign-up bonus and give them the 'cash back' they would've received with their debit card.
2. Always do the math. You are saving like 8% on the loan right? Take the money and run. If you wife is concerned, put the $130 into a monthly travel fund/pay taxes at <3% with a credit card.



Thanks to both of you for the insight. I needed a small face punch (and second set of eyes) to see if I was being dumb by not refinancing, just because of being able to pay my mortgage with my credit card.

I am filling out an application to get some of the numbers in writing, so it's likely I'll end up refinancing. Thanks again for your ideas and input.

To dig further math wise.
Even if you and the wife like singing up new CC every so often for the bonuses.
Let's say you signed up for 4 new cards per year. The requirement is usually $3000 spending per card. That's $12k.
A lot of your normal bills allow you to use CC but charges a 2%-3% fee. Even at 3%, $12k x 3% is still only $360 and that's really worst case scenario.

What I usually do is sign up for new cards when ever I see big bills coming.
There's a $1500 home policy on the rental, $850 policy on the primary, $600 for car insurance and a slew of dental bills coming up. Knowing that I just signed up 2 Chase cards for me and the wife requiring $3000 spending each. I won't have a problem meeting the $6k requirement.

Nutty

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2021, 02:28:14 PM »
Thank y'all for pointing things out to me.  I am learning.  Learning alot.
Got the first quote and am still looking, but this is simple math and the word on the street is rates will be increasing shortly.

Time to do something.

Jack0Life

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2021, 02:34:25 PM »
Thank y'all for pointing things out to me.  I am learning.  Learning alot.
Got the first quote and am still looking, but this is simple math and the word on the street is rates will be increasing shortly.

Time to do something.

I don't think the FED is raising interest anytime soon.
If I was a betting man, I'd say it will stay the same for the next 3 quarters.

Nutty

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2021, 03:39:56 PM »
Thank y'all for pointing things out to me.  I am learning.  Learning alot.
Got the first quote and am still looking, but this is simple math and the word on the street is rates will be increasing shortly.

Time to do something.

I don't think the FED is raising interest anytime soon.
If I was a betting man, I'd say it will stay the same for the next 3 quarters.
Then I definitely need to move to start saving more money.  Yes, I'm slow, but I do learn.

An early post said to price shop 3 sites for the best rates.  Buying points has me playing with the calculator to get it below 3%.  This and increasing to a 30 year will free up more to fix the house and invest.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2021, 08:00:41 AM »
As an update: I've continued to shop around, and spoke by phone to Amerisave yesterday. They are willing to offer 2.0%/30yr with points, and I learned something new that explains what happened with LenderFI. These awesome rates are apparently only for conforming mortgages (not jumbo) and every county has its own conforming loan limit amount. My application to LenderFI included a cash out amount that put us over the conforming limit, although our outstanding mortgage by itself is under that limit. I've asked LenderFI to remove the cash out amount and see what we can get. Meanwhile, I'll contact Loan Depot today.

So, a little PSA, especially for those in HCOL areas who might have large mortgages: know what your county's conforming loan limit is: https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicostlook.cfm

In case anyone's interested:

I got quotes from Amerisave, LenderFI, and LoanDepot. LoanDepot had the best pricing and we are going with them. We're rate locked at 2.0%/30yr. We're paying a chunk of change in points, but we'll be saving over $800 PER MONTH so it's totally worth it. Break-even is at 20 months and we plan to be here forever. They waived the appraisal.

Question: their lender title insurance fee was high so we'd like to shop it. We've never shopped that item before, so wondering if anyone has recommendations?

couponvan

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2021, 08:17:14 AM »
As an update: I've continued to shop around, and spoke by phone to Amerisave yesterday. They are willing to offer 2.0%/30yr with points, and I learned something new that explains what happened with LenderFI. These awesome rates are apparently only for conforming mortgages (not jumbo) and every county has its own conforming loan limit amount. My application to LenderFI included a cash out amount that put us over the conforming limit, although our outstanding mortgage by itself is under that limit. I've asked LenderFI to remove the cash out amount and see what we can get. Meanwhile, I'll contact Loan Depot today.

So, a little PSA, especially for those in HCOL areas who might have large mortgages: know what your county's conforming loan limit is: https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicostlook.cfm

In case anyone's interested:

I got quotes from Amerisave, LenderFI, and LoanDepot. LoanDepot had the best pricing and we are going with them. We're rate locked at 2.0%/30yr. We're paying a chunk of change in points, but we'll be saving over $800 PER MONTH so it's totally worth it. Break-even is at 20 months and we plan to be here forever. They waived the appraisal.

Question: their lender title insurance fee was high so we'd like to shop it. We've never shopped that item before, so wondering if anyone has recommendations?
Be warned that you will need to be on top of them from day 1 to make sure they get through your refi in time. Make sure you are never late turning in anything they request. We had to extend our lock because of their delays-and they paid for it because we could prove they were the at fault side. I feel like they were slow on purpose to try and get another rate lock fee....Just my personal gut feel on that.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2021, 08:25:51 AM »
Thanks for the heads up, couponvan. Will be sure to be on top of everything.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2021, 01:18:35 PM »
We're about 3 weeks out from the rate lock expiration. We provided a bunch of documents early on, now it's been quiet with no to-do's for a few weeks; I'm assuming there will be a round of sending fresh bank statements etc. in the next week or two. I'll post here if anything goes sideways.

katsiki

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2021, 03:38:39 PM »
We're about 3 weeks out from the rate lock expiration. We provided a bunch of documents early on, now it's been quiet with no to-do's for a few weeks; I'm assuming there will be a round of sending fresh bank statements etc. in the next week or two. I'll post here if anything goes sideways.

thanks for the follow up.  it is helpful.

DirtDiva

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2021, 07:07:02 PM »
Closing tomorrow with Better.com.  Process took about 7 weeks.

30 year fixed, 2.625%, no closing costs (actually getting $180 back)
LTV 40% (mostly due to appreciation) on a condo
Precious refi in May 2020 was for 3.25%, received $ 2500ish back using the now-expired Amex offer.

Loan Depot gave me the same offer.

mizzourah2006

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2021, 02:19:05 PM »
I just locked in a 15 year 2.25% cash out refi with no points. Looks like it's gonna cost me between 2-3k in closing costs depending on whether or not they can get the appraisal and inspection waived. Currently ~9 years into a 30 year 3.375% mortgage.

Scandium

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2021, 12:14:38 PM »
Closing tomorrow with Better.com.  Process took about 7 weeks.

30 year fixed, 2.625%, no closing costs (actually getting $180 back)
LTV 40% (mostly due to appreciation) on a condo
Precious refi in May 2020 was for 3.25%, received $ 2500ish back using the now-expired Amex offer.

Loan Depot gave me the same offer.

Interesting, I've been looking at better.com, but got worse terms. Best was 3%, with $2k in points, and another $3300 in closing costs.
Homefinity has now offered a better deal; 3%, no points and just $1300 closing. Think I'll go with that, haven's see anything better in 3-4 others I've looked at.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2021, 12:30:29 PM »
Rate is no longer available, but we got 2.5% on a 15 year jumbo loan, with under $3k of cost, which was by far the lowest we could find.

frugalnacho

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2021, 12:54:40 PM »
Closing next week with local credit union.  30 yr @ 2.875%, ~$2.2k closing costs.  Cash out refi 75% LTV.  Process took about 8 weeks.

nancy33

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2021, 10:44:32 PM »
We just closed a 30 year fixed no points no appraisal it was about $1 k in closing costs 2.5% with FILO it was the easiest refi we have ever done. They said we got the rate because of our loan to value...our house appreciated so much compared to what we owe

jpdx

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2021, 01:26:57 AM »
My broker just quoted me 3.25% and $4500 closing costs. Pass.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2021, 02:47:41 PM »
We're about 3 weeks out from the rate lock expiration. We provided a bunch of documents early on, now it's been quiet with no to-do's for a few weeks; I'm assuming there will be a round of sending fresh bank statements etc. in the next week or two. I'll post here if anything goes sideways.

thanks for the follow up.  it is helpful.

Today we closed on the refi. After a 3-day waiting period, the loan should be funded by Monday. There was remarkably little chaos or churn; LoanDepot automatically extended the rate lock just in case we couldn't close on time. I sent fresh bank statements a few days ago, and they didn't ask for any other documentation. It's possible they didn't even pull our credit again - I don't see any recent inquiries.

Knock on wood, I think we're in the clear. We paid points to get a rock-bottom rate (2.0 on fixed 30yr); break-even is only 18 months out and we plan to be here for 15-20 years more, so it was a no-brainer. Seems we may have refinanced at exactly the right time, as I think rates have floated up since Jan.

Good luck to others still in the process!

englishteacheralex

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2021, 03:14:52 PM »
Closed a couple of weeks ago on a refi that is probably not Mustachian approved. We were in the "carry a mortgage, invest the difference" camp for a while, but right now we're trying to save a down payment for a new place within the next two years, and we refied from 3.75% on a 30 year fixed to 2.625% on a 15 year fixed with $2k closing fees. It makes our mortgage payment higher but we want to sell the place to get the equity to go with our down payment, so we thought it made sense as a savings strategy (since the interest rate at the bank is so low, and we don't want to put our down payment money in the market).

BicycleB

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2021, 06:48:34 PM »
^Congrats.

Friend was about to close on 2.25% 15 year (paying one point) but was rejected due to technicality - contract work began Jan 1, less than six months employment despite actually having worked there much longer; new contract, non-continuous employment.

katsiki

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2021, 07:07:16 PM »
Closed a couple of weeks ago on a refi that is probably not Mustachian approved. We were in the "carry a mortgage, invest the difference" camp for a while, but right now we're trying to save a down payment for a new place within the next two years, and we refied from 3.75% on a 30 year fixed to 2.625% on a 15 year fixed with $2k closing fees. It makes our mortgage payment higher but we want to sell the place to get the equity to go with our down payment, so we thought it made sense as a savings strategy (since the interest rate at the bank is so low, and we don't want to put our down payment money in the market).

I approve.  I cannot speak for the other mustaches... :)

Thanks again to all who provide updates!  No doubt that you are helping others.

franklin4

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2021, 11:26:38 PM »
Got 2.375 on a 15 year for primary and 3.625 for 30 year for 4 rentals, little to no cost for all of them, closed about 2 weeks ago. I've always brought money to closing before to fund the new escrow account but this time I rolled that into the loan amount for rentals because rates are so low.

Freedom2016

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2021, 10:27:43 AM »
Quote
We're about 3 weeks out from the rate lock expiration. We provided a bunch of documents early on, now it's been quiet with no to-do's for a few weeks; I'm assuming there will be a round of sending fresh bank statements etc. in the next week or two. I'll post here if anything goes sideways.

thanks for the follow up.  it is helpful.

Today we closed on the refi. After a 3-day waiting period, the loan should be funded by Monday. There was remarkably little chaos or churn; LoanDepot automatically extended the rate lock just in case we couldn't close on time. I sent fresh bank statements a few days ago, and they didn't ask for any other documentation. It's possible they didn't even pull our credit again - I don't see any recent inquiries.

Knock on wood, I think we're in the clear. We paid points to get a rock-bottom rate (2.0 on fixed 30yr); break-even is only 18 months out and we plan to be here for 15-20 years more, so it was a no-brainer. Seems we may have refinanced at exactly the right time, as I think rates have floated up since Jan.

Good luck to others still in the process!

Final update: got word today that the refi has been funded, so it's officially done!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 08:05:41 AM by Freedom2016 »

ice_beard

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2021, 02:49:04 PM »
We closed on 2.75/30 yr a week or two ago.  This is in the Bay Area, so it's not a cheap note.
We used Guild, who wrote our original mortgage for 4.75% (ouch!) in 2017, then a refi in 2019 to 3.75% and once again now to 2.75%.  I think the total closing cost was around $4k which will be covered in less than 2 years by monthly savings.  They used most of the same paperwork and the same assessment from our last refi and in general, made it incredibly easy to work with them.  The paperwork guy even came to our house at 8 pm because I had to work that day.  Very happy with the rate and ease of the process, although it took three tries to get to this ridiculous rate. 

I really wonder if in two more years I'll be posting this with a refi at 1.75%? 

lutorm

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Re: got refi?
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2021, 05:49:00 PM »
Yeah, we closed on a 2.375%/15 year with a local credit union two weeks ago. This means basically the same monthly payments as our old 30-year, which had 22 years left. Not bad.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!