Author Topic: Good time to buy a VW?  (Read 19429 times)

Jack

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2015, 09:23:34 AM »
A Public Service Announcement for German car owners in general, and Diesel VW owners in particular:

STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THE DEALER! Use an independent mechanic (for things you can't DIY) instead, and buy [not-made-in-China] parts from reputable third-party vendors.

I don't think this just applies to European cars and their dealers.  In my experience, it applies to ALL new car dealer service departments.  I have never found a single car repair or maintenance task that a dealer would not price at a huge markup from what an independent mechanic shop would charge.

Oh, sorry, I was unclear: I didn't mean you should stay away from Volkswagen dealer service centers only because they're expensive. I meant that you should also stay away because (especially if you have a TDI*) they're incompetent and will fuck up your car.

(* This may have changed in the last few years since a decent fraction of VW's sales between 2009 and a few weeks ago were diesels.  I would hope they would have recently become a little bit better at dealing with them than they were for the '90s and early-2000s models.)

HipGnosis

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2015, 09:43:08 AM »
Posting to follow/subscribe as a couple months ago I decided that an 09-11 Jetta TDI will be probably be my next car.

Koreth

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2015, 03:30:54 PM »
First of all, FYI, I consider myself to be an environmentalist. And that's (part of the reason) why I own a Diesel! The apparent contradiction is resolved by the fact that I'm a rational environmentalist, not a knee-jerk dumbass.

No, they are generally based on industry bribes and campaign donations.

That would only be the case if the demands from the vocal greenies were always based on real science instead of the misguided belief that the world can run on rainbows and pixie dust if we all just cared a little more.

So urban smog and climate change are not problems in today's society?

I'm not sure why this isn't quite getting through, so I'll write it in all caps:

IF YOU CARE ABOUT REDUCING CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU SHOULD LIKE DIESEL!

Because they are more thermodynamically efficient, Diesels emit less CO2 per mile and thus contribute less to global warming than equivalent gasoline-engine cars.

But that's not the best part: the best part is biodiesel. Unlike ethanol, which takes more energy to produce than it stores (except in Brazil, where it's made from sugar cane), biodiesel is actually a fuel that makes sense. It can even be produced from waste products, such as used frying oil and by-products from chicken processing. And it's carbon-neutral, which means that the CO2 produced when it's burned was previously CO2 in the very recent past, so there's no net increase in the atmosphere and it doesn't contribute to global warming at all. A car running on biodiesel is better for the planet than an EV charged by a coal-burning power plant.

And guess what? Except for these new "clean diesels" that got fucked up due to misguided regulation, every diesel engine made could run on biodiesel with few modifications, or even none. My '98 TDI, for example, required nothing more than replacing a few rubber hoses with hoses made of a different kind of rubber. We have a pre-existing fleet of green vehicles that require no finicky "flex-fuel" technology, no ridiculous "hydrogen economy" and no changes to infrastructure at all except pumping a slightly different chemical into the damn fuel station storage tanks!

Basically, Diesel is the vehicular equivalent of nuclear power: in actual reality it's a good thing, but "rainbow and pixie dust greenies" irrationally hate it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the biodiesel. Blends are okay. B100 is riskier, especially with the newer TDIs running at higher injection pressures (PD and CR both running north of 1200 bar). At such elevated pressures, you are at much more elevated risk of polymerization/varnish killing your pump and nozzles. Even the older VE pump TDIs like your '98 which run at a comparatively modest 200-220 bar of injection pressure have had their life shortened by biodiesel use.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2015, 04:50:44 PM »
People keep talking about diesels, but they make gas powered and electric cars too, I wonder if the price of a gas powered golf will dorp significantly as well?
Used prices on non-diesels should be unaffected unless this actually destroys the company, which could increase maintenance costs (unlikely).
New gas/electric cars are unlikely to get cheaper because the company is looking at a hideously expensive recall, and will need all the cash it can get.

My $.02: I wouldn't touch anything with the VW name on it with a ten-foot pole right now, because the situation is too complicated to accurately assess all the risks. The cars aren't going to become collector's items so they're still just high-maintenance depreciation centers. There's no telling if the stock is adequately discounted, even after getting smashed on the initial news, because the penalties have not been fully figured.

To me, the only bright spot in any of this is the possibility that their promising EV offerings, with a few good models and supposed plans for dozens more, will be propelled to center stage in the efficiency effort. But that's not an investment opportunity per se, just a subject of personal interest.
My local Volkswagen dealer is offering a $2,500 loyalty credit to current volkswagen owners on all new volkswagens (including gas and electric). It turns out a lot of dealers are offering incentives to get people to buy all of their cars. Still not a big enough discount for me, but maybe some people.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2015, 08:55:32 PM »
I'm just going to leave this here...

http://ericpetersautos.com/2015/10/20/dirty-laundry/

sunday

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2015, 10:29:00 AM »
^^ What the hell did I just read? I really should know better than to click on the link.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2015, 02:46:24 PM »
^^ What the hell did I just read? I really should know better than to click on the link.

You read an explanation of the actual controversy from an industry expert.  Was it over your head?

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2015, 07:53:40 PM »
I'm just going to leave this here...

http://ericpetersautos.com/2015/10/20/dirty-laundry/

Wow, glad someone said it.  That's what I was thinking the whole time.

<-- former TDI owner, Hondas only now.

sunday

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2015, 11:28:06 PM »
Yes, it's completely over my head that people would think that a company who committed fraud and acted illegally is actually the victim of a government plot.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2015, 07:47:14 AM »
Yes, it's completely over my head that people would think that a company who committed fraud and acted illegally is actually the victim of a government plot.

Hmm, really?  That kind of thing has never happened before?  Have you never heard of medical marijuana?  The history of the homeschooling movement?  The Waco siege?  The Battle of Athens?  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29) Or the Lincoln County War?  What about the Underground Railroad?  There is an entire museum in Cincinnati dedicated to that grand conspiracy to commit fraud and illegal acts against the government, and a full chapter is dedicated to it in every school history book in America.  Just because it's a government agent enforcing a law, it must be just, correct?  Of course, the Tuskegee experiment was totally in the interests of the public! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment)  Surely no government in the US has ever done anything to cause us to question their intentions when they pass a law that largely affects a foreign import industry? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Sugar_Program)  Certainly not the Obama administration, anyway! (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/12/business/global/12tires.html)

Sunday, the fact is that you commit an average of three felonies every day, and likely don't know it...

http://mic.com/articles/86797/8-ways-we-regularly-commit-felonies-without-realizing-it

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

The Baptists & Bootleggers political theory has been proven correct so completely and so often, no one with any sense should ever trust the official reasons for a new law, until they understand who stands to profit from it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleggers_and_Baptists

GuitarStv

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2015, 08:47:01 AM »
Did you really just compare VW cheating on emissions tests and lying to their customers and the government for monetary gain to the underground railroad?  Really?  What kind of deranged thought process makes those two things in any way comparable?

I'm shocked that some sort of EPA/Nazi or legal proceedings against VW/Auschwitz reference didn't also pop up in your rant . . .

zephyr911

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »
Sweet Jesus, I've officially seen it all.

I'm going to have to remember this for future debates. Let me make sure I understand this correctly: all I have to do is point out that, once upon a time, a government passed a bad law, and/or did a bad thing, and because we can all agree today that it was bad -> a logical miracle occurs -> therefore, the current law that I don't like is also illegitimate.

Did I get that right?

sunday

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2015, 10:02:43 AM »
Thank you GuitarStv and zephyr911, perfectly said and now I can save my tin foil for actual baking uses later.

zephyr911

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2015, 12:42:17 PM »
Thank you GuitarStv and zephyr911, perfectly said and now I can save my tin foil for actual baking uses later.
It hurts my heart anytime metal is used in a disposable fashion. Please try to clean off the refuse and recycle it.

HipGnosis

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2015, 01:51:47 PM »
Thank you GuitarStv and zephyr911, perfectly said and now I can save my tin foil for actual baking uses later.
It hurts my heart anytime metal is used in a disposable fashion. Please try to clean off the refuse and recycle it.
Now we know that if you ever irritate us all we have to do is dispose of disposable aluminum bake ware w/o actually ever baking in it.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2015, 03:20:49 PM »
Did you really just compare VW cheating on emissions tests and lying to their customers and the government for monetary gain to the underground railroad?  Really?  What kind of deranged thought process makes those two things in any way comparable?


Mostly a lot of time learning about history.  I know it's not for everyone, but if you took some time to actually study some if it, you might find that the kind of people that pursue authority over others are exactly the kind of people that will abuse it, given the chance.

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I'm shocked that some sort of EPA/Nazi or legal proceedings against VW/Auschwitz reference didn't also pop up in your rant . . .

I was tired, so you'll have to excuse that oversight.  You could direct me to those references, though.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2015, 03:21:50 PM »
Sweet Jesus, I've officially seen it all.

I'm going to have to remember this for future debates. Let me make sure I understand this correctly: all I have to do is point out that, once upon a time, a government passed a bad law, and/or did a bad thing, and because we can all agree today that it was bad -> a logical miracle occurs -> therefore, the current law that I don't like is also illegitimate.

Did I get that right?

Logic is not magic, but I can understand how it might appear that way sometimes.

lukebuz

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2015, 09:54:52 PM »
......Washington State claims the title of "land of trees".  Anyone who has driven through Kentucky knows that we could rationally challenge that claim. 
Quote
Washington State is the "Evergreen State" despite the fact that ~ 35%+ has NO trees, and is typically not green.
http://www.kettlerange.org/steppeweb/

See location note under my username.
I stand corrected.
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Kentucky's claim is accepted as valid.

Thank you. I'm actually not certain that there is any outdoor location that a human being can stand and not see trees anywhere in the state of Kentucky.  Except, maybe, during a new moon.

As a recent transplant, I can say, GO KY!  Great state!  Come on down to BG sometime!

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2015, 10:39:37 PM »
......Washington State claims the title of "land of trees".  Anyone who has driven through Kentucky knows that we could rationally challenge that claim. 
Washington State is the "Evergreen State" despite the fact that ~ 35%+ has NO trees, and is typically not green.
http://www.kettlerange.org/steppeweb/

See location note under my username.
I stand corrected.
Quote
Kentucky's claim is accepted as valid.

Thank you. I'm actually not certain that there is any outdoor location that a human being can stand and not see trees anywhere in the state of Kentucky.  Except, maybe, during a new moon.

As a recent transplant, I can say, GO KY!  Great state!  Come on down to BG sometime!

What's in Bowling Green besides more trees?

lukebuz

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2015, 01:42:09 PM »
The most interesting person on earth.

MoonShadow

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2015, 09:48:49 PM »
The most interesting person on earth.

Really?  What's she like?

Bob W

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Re: Good time to buy a VW?
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2015, 11:04:24 AM »
For the prices of parts on those things, they would have to be almost free before I found them to be worthwhile, scandal or not.

Around here we call them Very Wrong.  German engineering is often touted as superior but my perception is the Japanese are much better and that VWs tend to have issues and are relatively expensive to repair.

So I vote no on buying them while the price is down. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!