Good Grief--The Insurance Rates for Two Teen Boys in Home Now Driving

[ltt]

I just about want to fall over with these rates on our boys.  I have no idea how to lower the rate.  We can either buy a cheaper car for them, and take the risk that I won't be sitting in a mechanic's shop most of the time.  We've got all the deductions we can think of--driver's ed, good student, etc.  Any other suggestions??? 

And we live to far from things to have them riding a bike.  :)

[Mississippi Mudstache]

So what are they driving?

[ltt]

They are driving a 2010 Toyota Corolla.  It is still in the warranty period.  With my husband, myself, and them, it is over $4,000 per year!  No tickets, one accident--they were rear-ended.

[Jags4186]

I just about want to fall over with these rates on our boys.  I have no idea how to lower the rate.  We can either buy a cheaper car for them, and take the risk that I won't be sitting in a mechanic's shop most of the time.  We've got all the deductions we can think of--driver's ed, good student, etc.  Any other suggestions??? 

And we live to far from things to have them riding a bike.  :)

I don't think it really matters what you buy the kids.  They will get a rate based on the cars on the policy.  So if you have a BMW you will be paying to insure 16 year olds driving a BMW even if you don't even let them be the passenger in the vehicle.

[HazelStone]

Raise your deductibles. Rates for teenagers are high because the probability of a new driver getting into an accident is also relatively high- they are driving a car that is still worth real money. Raising your deductibles may or may not be a good move, depending on the prudence and restraint of your new drivers. You may also want to consider if your liability limits are high enough, though obviously that doesn't help on the cost.

[RFAAOATB]

Is the rate low enough that you can make the teens pay it to internalize the responsibility of driving?

[Huffy2k]

How many cars are you insuring?  If you have more than 2 cars, the boys will be designated as the primary driver on the 3rd (or 4th) car.  Maintaining only 2 cars would help as you and your husband would be the primary drivers on those cars.

The statistics back up the high rates for teenage boys.  I feel your pain as I went through this with my 2 sons, luckily they managed to maintain a clean driving record while I was insuring them and now that they are off on their own, my insurance bills have come back to earth.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I wrecked more often than the Dukes of Hazzard when I was in high school. Granted, they were generally innocuous fender-benders rather than 100-ft jumps over a bridge and into a hay barn, but still: I offer a heartfelt apology to the parents of all teenage sons for increasing the mean cost of insuring a teenage boy.

[Gone Fishing]

Give us some numbers.  How much is the liability portion of the policy vs the collison coverage on the car?  Can you just license and insure the oldest?    Are they paying part of the premium?(they should be) Can they just go without? Can they ride with someone else?

My parents refused to buy insurance for me and my sister and as such we did not drive much as teenagers.  We both got learners permits which allowed us to drive with our parents for experience (no insurance required).  Otherwise, we begged rides off of pretty much everybody we knew.  My senior year in college, I bought an old motorcycle and got liability ($15/mo in 2003).  Once I graduated I bought a 6 year old Honda Civic to get to work.  Insurance including collision and liability, was maybe $40-50/mo?  My sister bought a brand new Honda Civic, her insurance was about the same as the payment, around $250/mo.

[ltt]

We have 3 vehicles--all Toyotas.  The deductibles on all 3 are $500/each.  My Sienna and their Corolla (both 2010s) basically cost the same to insure, and the collision and other than collision are both around $2,800 per year.  I could raise the deductible to $1,000, but am not sure how much it would lower the insurance by.

[Huffy2k]

Make do with 2 cars, that's the only real way to take a bite out of your insurance costs.  Otherwise, have the boys earn some money to contribute to the cost of their insurance.

[ltt]

Give us some numbers.  How much is the liability portion of the policy vs the collison coverage on the car?  Can you just license and insure the oldest?    Are they paying part of the premium?(they should be) Can they just go without? Can they ride with someone else?

My parents refused to buy insurance for me and my sister and as such we did not drive much as teenagers.  We both got learners permits which allowed us to drive with our parents for experience (no insurance required).  Otherwise, we begged rides off of pretty much everybody we knew.  My senior year in college, I bought an old motorcycle and got liability ($15/mo in 2003).  Once I graduated I bought a 6 year old Honda Civic to get to work.  Insurance including collision and liability, was maybe $40-50/mo?  My sister bought a brand new Honda Civic, her insurance was about the same as the payment, around $250/mo.

We cannot license and insure just the oldest.  Our younger one (they're 17 and 16) just got a job in the evenings and will be taking the car to work and back.  He will need to help pay.  Our older one is looking for work--he has typically worked in the summer, and doesn't really make that much. 

Three of our children go to the same school in a rural area, therefore, they drive.

It's the collision and other than collision which is high. 

[ltt]

I wrecked more often than the Dukes of Hazzard when I was in high school.

Well, this makes me feel better.

[southern granny]

As others have said the expense is because you have more than two cars which means the boy is listed as primary driver of one.  If you can figure out a way to only have two cars you will save big.

[Prairie Stash]

It seems like just yesterday I bought my first car and paid my first insurance. Seriously, you're complaining that you own 3 vehicles and it's expensive? Why not get the drivers to pay?

Also, why would you be sitting in the mechanics shop? If it's your sons car shouldn't he be sitting in the shop? Do you also pay for their gas? Cars come with responsibilities like doing maintenance and repairs.

I grew up in a rural area. The school board supplied a "school bus" free to ride. How did they get to school before they could drive? For me it was an 80 minute ride each way, I'm guessing you were going to say they have a long bus ride.

[kpd905]

Part time work during the school year and full time work in the summer was what I did.  That should be plenty for the kids to pay for the insurance cost.

[David Lurie]

At those rates I'd be inclined to just have the insurance in you and your spouse's name. In the event of an accident, I'd tell the insurance company that you and your spouse were the primary drivers and that you simply loaned the car to your child for that one trip.

[ltt]

It seems like just yesterday I bought my first car and paid my first insurance. Seriously, you're complaining that you own 3 vehicles and it's expensive? Why not get the drivers to pay?

Also, why would you be sitting in the mechanics shop? If it's your sons car shouldn't he be sitting in the shop? Do you also pay for their gas? Cars come with responsibilities like doing maintenance and repairs.

I grew up in a rural area. The school board supplied a "school bus" free to ride. How did they get to school before they could drive? For me it was an 80 minute ride each way, I'm guessing you were going to say they have a long bus ride.

I took them, we don't have buses here.  As I explained, one starts a job this week; the other is looking for work.  Yes, we supplement gas money, but normally the older one takes it out of his savings. 

[Prairie Stash]

Now I'm curious where you live? Where I live everyone a certain distance from school has bus access. If you live close you're expected to walk. By law everyone here gets a bus if they need it except if they choose private schools.

So why not get an older car? Sell the 2010, buy a 2006. With the difference in price that'll pay for years of insurance. As for sitting in mechanics shops can your kids do that?

[lakemom]

OK, as the mother of 6 you have my sympathy!!!  Its expensive to insure teens/young adults and there is really no way around this if they have driver's licenses.  And even when they are not listed as "primary driver" on a car its STILL expensive!  At one point we had 5 drivers and 2 cars in our family and it just hurt.  Then the older ones bought cars and started paying their own portion of the premiums and that helped as the costs were more evenly spread around.  My only suggestion is to shop it around and see if anyone can get you a better premium.

[GizmoTX]

Depending on your insurance company, an older car can really help. Our son is assigned to a 15 year old car on our policy, while our other 2 are newer & worth much more -- our insurance would increase dramatically if he were assigned to either of them. However, we are still insured if he drives any of them.

[Tabaxus]

At those rates I'd be inclined to just have the insurance in you and your spouse's name. In the event of an accident, I'd tell the insurance company that you and your spouse were the primary drivers and that you simply loaned the car to your child for that one trip.

Plans that involve insurance fraud generally aren't great plans.

[guitar_stitch]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

[2lazy2retire]

They are driving a 2010 Toyota Corolla.  It is still in the warranty period.  With my husband, myself, and them, it is over $4,000 per year!  No tickets, one accident--they were rear-ended.

Same boat here, 3 cars - kids are now 20 and we are down to $2800/year ( full tort) . Also our Umbrella went from $300 to over $1000/year
See others have mentioned reducing to 2 cars will make a big difference, will check with insurance company

[JLee]

At those rates I'd be inclined to just have the insurance in you and your spouse's name. In the event of an accident, I'd tell the insurance company that you and your spouse were the primary drivers and that you simply loaned the car to your child for that one trip.

That's a good way to get dropped by your insurance company and incur personal liability for that accident.

[gobius]

Not some easy trick or anything, but as some have suggested, you could sell the car they are driving and buy a cheap Civic or something with cash.  Then get liability insurance.  In high school I bought my first car and my dad had me put liability insurance on it.  I was on his policy and paid him each month.

Raising the deductible does help; you'll just be taking on more risk.  It doesn't take long to get a quote.

Obviously I'm not in your situation, but to me a 2010 Camry is nicer than a high school boy would need, which is why you could sell it and use the proceeds to buy a cheaper car.  My first car was 12 years old when I bought it and lasted me another 5 years.  You'd be surprised how reliable cheaper cars are, especially older Hondas.  Any repairs needed can be taken care of by your sons; they may even learn to do the repairs themselves to save money.

[Bob W]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

Although, may be difficult to transition into I would suggest it for more reasons than the money.   Studies conclusively show that teens who buy their own cars and buy their own insurance have a very, very significant lower accident and vehicle fatality rate.   Makes sense.  So I would suggest you transition to something like this --

$4,000 cars --- require them to pay you back at a 7% interest rate --- They shop for and pay for their own insurance.    You can then take the cash you would have spent on insurance and invest it for 15 years for a very nice gift or house downpayment gift.

But I would take the time to research the significant accident rate between those gifted cars and those who earn them. 

[TreeTired]

Obviously I'm not in your situation, but to me a 2010 Camry is nicer than a high school boy would need,

I agree, but she said Corolla.   Still... when our son started driving  (and as a parent you are so sick of driving the kids everywhere that when they become able to drive themselves you want to buy them a car!!!!!)   we bought him a very reasonably priced used Saab with over 100k miles on the clock.   We did not have collision insurance on the car.   I admit we were very lucky because the car lasted a long time with no major repairs, which might be unusual for a Saab.  Eventually we donated the car to charity.

[SantaFeSteve]

Is the rate low enough that you can make the teens pay it to internalize the responsibility of driving?

Before they started driving they got where they needed to go somehow right?
If they want to drive, then they should pay the difference between your insurance rates prior to them becoming drivers and what it is now.

It is a great lesson in the very expensive clown-car habits we create.

[2lazy2retire]

Is the rate low enough that you can make the teens pay it to internalize the responsibility of driving?

Before they started driving they got where they needed to go somehow right?
If they want to drive, then they should pay the difference between your insurance rates prior to them becoming drivers and what it is now.

It is a great lesson in the very expensive clown-car habits we create.

I'm sure we all agree with the lesson part, but the point is the cost of the insurance and how might you mitigate it as opposed to how might you pay for it.

[lackofstache]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

[Tabaxus]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.  Ethics aside, you're exposing yourself to having the insurance invalidated. 

[2lazy2retire]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.

AFAIK its quite legal to assign a young driver to the lowest value car insured, is that incorrect?, I'm sure not all insurance companies allow it, but fraud, jaysus lighten up

[SantaFeSteve]

Is the rate low enough that you can make the teens pay it to internalize the responsibility of driving?

Before they started driving they got where they needed to go somehow right?
If they want to drive, then they should pay the difference between your insurance rates prior to them becoming drivers and what it is now.

It is a great lesson in the very expensive clown-car habits we create.

I'm sure we all agree with the lesson part, but the point is the cost of the insurance and how might you mitigate it as opposed to how might you pay for it.

I am of the opinion that by the parents (OP) not paying for it then they are mitigating the cost. 

[2lazy2retire]

Is the rate low enough that you can make the teens pay it to internalize the responsibility of driving?

Before they started driving they got where they needed to go somehow right?
If they want to drive, then they should pay the difference between your insurance rates prior to them becoming drivers and what it is now.

It is a great lesson in the very expensive clown-car habits we create.

I'm sure we all agree with the lesson part, but the point is the cost of the insurance and how might you mitigate it as opposed to how might you pay for it.

I am of the opinion that by the parents (OP) not paying for it then they are mitigating the cost.

I'm sure the insurance companies would agree with you

[Tabaxus]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.

AFAIK its quite legal to assign a young driver to the lowest value car insured, is that incorrect?, I'm sure not all insurance companies allow it, but fraud, jaysus lighten up

There's a difference between assigning the lowest value car to the kid, without making any claims that the kid will principally drive the cheap car and not drive the other cars,  and affirmatively stating that the kids (1) will principally (or only) drive the lower-value car (even though you know that to be false) and (2) will not be permitted to drive the higher-value cars (even though you know that to be false).

[Songbird]

We have insured two teen drivers so far (boys) and two more to go (girls).  The boys each had crappy older junkers to drive and with their discounts for clean records and good students the rates were about $70 a month. As they aged it dropped to $48-$50.   

 Our deal with our kids is we will pay for their insurance (good grades, no tickets. etc. or else offer is retracted) and they pay for their gas. Their father teaches them maintenance and repair.  We feel this is fair due to our location and their need to get to part time jobs.  If they weren't driving we would be carting them ourselves so it works for us (because that wouldn't be happening otherwise). It's our way of helping them raise college funds (it's on them to pay for college).

[2lazy2retire]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.

AFAIK its quite legal to assign a young driver to the lowest value car insured, is that incorrect?, I'm sure not all insurance companies allow it, but fraud, jaysus lighten up

There's a difference between assigning the lowest value car to the kid, without making any claims that the kid will principally drive the cheap car and not drive the other cars,  and affirmatively stating that the kids (1) will principally (or only) drive the lower-value car (even though you know that to be false) and (2) will not be permitted to drive the higher-value cars (even though you know that to be false).

Sounds like a moral issue IMHO, not a legal one that would constitute fraud.

[mxt0133]

If they boys already have their licenses your insurance will go up no matter what, because they reside in the same household insurance companies assume that any licensed driver in the household will drive any vehicles listed under the policy.  The only way to exclude anyone from the policy is to show proof that they have their own auto policy.

You could have the boys surrender their licenses and that would lower your premiums back down.  Unfortunately this is what happened to me when I got my license at 17 after a few months my parents couldn't afford to pay the premiums so I had to surrender it.  Boy did that suck. 

I suggest everyone find out what the insurance increase will be when one of your kids get their license.  That way you will at least know if you can/want to cover it or not.  So you can be upfront with your kids on the costs and if they can get their license or not vs getting them all excited about getting one and then having to surrender it.

[Gin1984]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

If I buy my kid something to make my life easier, cell phone, car etc, I am not going to make them pay for it.  People have different values, and really it not anyone's place to be telling them what they HAVE to do.

[rocksinmyhead]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

If I buy my kid something to make my life easier, cell phone, car etc, I am not going to make them pay for it.  People have different values, and really it not anyone's place to be telling them what they HAVE to do.

good point about how much it makes the parents' lives easier... but I'm still curious how much selling the 2010 Corolla and switching to a beater car for the kids would save. I mean, I thought I was spoiled as fuck, but "back in my day" my parents bought me a ten-year-old Lumina when I graduated high school (I just borrowed theirs before) and I thought it was the BEST THING EVER!!! I think the only thing I ever took it to the shop for in 7 years of ownership was a new battery, so "sitting in a mechanic's shop most of the time" was not an issue (and I don't have a super auto mechanic dad or anything, just nothing ever went seriously wrong with my car). it leaked oil, so they wouldn't let me park in the driveway, and that was probably horrible for the environment, but that was pretty much the biggest downside.

[Gone Fishing]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

If I buy my kid something to make my life easier, cell phone, car etc, I am not going to make them pay for it.  People have different values, and really it not anyone's place to be telling them what they HAVE to do.

Don't forget this is the home of the face punch!  And $500/mo or abouts in insurance just so you don't have to drive your kids to school or deal with carpooling is certainly face punch worthy!

[2lazy2retire]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

If I buy my kid something to make my life easier, cell phone, car etc, I am not going to make them pay for it.  People have different values, and really it not anyone's place to be telling them what they HAVE to do.

Don't forget this is the home of the face punch!  And $500/mo or abouts in insurance just so you don't have to drive your kids to school or deal with carpooling is certainly face punch worthy!

I agree - kids around my way are using UberX

[Turkey Leg]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.

AFAIK its quite legal to assign a young driver to the lowest value car insured, is that incorrect?, I'm sure not all insurance companies allow it, but fraud, jaysus lighten up

There's a difference between assigning the lowest value car to the kid, without making any claims that the kid will principally drive the cheap car and not drive the other cars,  and affirmatively stating that the kids (1) will principally (or only) drive the lower-value car (even though you know that to be false) and (2) will not be permitted to drive the higher-value cars (even though you know that to be false).

Sounds like a moral issue IMHO, not a legal one that would constitute fraud.

From the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety: "Insurance Fraud Defined: Insurance fraud is specifically declared unlawful in the state's laws. A fraudulent act is committed if information in insurance applications is falsified in an attempt to obtain lower premium rates or to inflate the amount of loss in a claim."

Misrepresenting facts is insurance fraud per the above and is apparently a crime in most states.

[2lazy2retire]

Buy a sub $1k car. Tell the ol' insurance company that that's the car they drive. Only put minimum coverage on it. Park it. Let them drive the Corolla. They'll be covered to drive any car in the household, but need to be rated on only one.

Again, plans involving insurance fraud are generally not good plans.

AFAIK its quite legal to assign a young driver to the lowest value car insured, is that incorrect?, I'm sure not all insurance companies allow it, but fraud, jaysus lighten up

There's a difference between assigning the lowest value car to the kid, without making any claims that the kid will principally drive the cheap car and not drive the other cars,  and affirmatively stating that the kids (1) will principally (or only) drive the lower-value car (even though you know that to be false) and (2) will not be permitted to drive the higher-value cars (even though you know that to be false).

Sounds like a moral issue IMHO, not a legal one that would constitute fraud.

From the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety: "Insurance Fraud Defined: Insurance fraud is specifically declared unlawful in the state's laws. A fraudulent act is committed if information in insurance applications is falsified in an attempt to obtain lower premium rates or to inflate the amount of loss in a claim."

Misrepresenting facts is insurance fraud per the above and is apparently a crime in most states.

As I see it the kid is no less of a risk to himself or others whichever car he is driving and a such the rates should reflect this. In which case assigning a particular car should be no more/less a questionable tactic for reducing your premium than deciding how much of a deductible to take.

[beltim]

2lazy: that is demonstrably false. The reason different cars have different liability insurance costs is because drivers of different cars get into accidents at different rates and cause different amounts of damage.

[beltim]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

If I buy my kid something to make my life easier, cell phone, car etc, I am not going to make them pay for it.  People have different values, and really it not anyone's place to be telling them what they HAVE to do.

Don't forget this is the home of the face punch!  And $500/mo or abouts in insurance just so you don't have to drive your kids to school or deal with carpooling is certainly face punch worthy!

1) you're overstating the insurance cost by 50%
2) the OP's insurance cost didn't start at 0, so a lot of (most of?) the remaining 50% was existing costs anyway
Anyway, the OP is paying nowhere near $500 a month to avoid carpooling or driving to school

[2lazy2retire]

2lazy: that is demonstrably false. The reason different cars have different liability insurance costs is because drivers of different cars get into accidents at different rates and cause different amounts of damage.

Agreed if you are talking about performance cars, or are you saying that a kid is more likely to get involved in an accident if he happens to be driving a 2014 honda civic as opposed to a 2000 model. Is the older car not likely to be more of an accident risk, are newer cars not safer and as such should be cheaper as the assigned car to the younger driver. The insurance company will endeavor to keep its costs down, we should to.

[ltt]

Jesus...

Ok, first...  If they are driving, they should be paying 100% of the cost.  Period.  No excuses here.  If they want to drive, they need to pay for it.  By footing the bill, you're teaching them bad lessons and diminishing the impact of the cost of driving.

Second, take the fancy ass car they're driving off of your policy with you and your domestic partner.  Put the kids on their own policy.  It's legal, and it isolates them from the other vehicles.

My husband and I cannot take them off our policy.  In fact, it's my understanding, from our insurance agent, that if they go to college and are students, they will still be on our policy.

[ltt]

At those rates I'd be inclined to just have the insurance in you and your spouse's name. In the event of an accident, I'd tell the insurance company that you and your spouse were the primary drivers and that you simply loaned the car to your child for that one trip.

I would consider this to be fraud--no thanks!