Gold, silver and stockpiling food

[sash]

I've been reading a new book called "Fake" by the author of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and white he sounded sane before, in this book he's raving about how the printed dollars are fake money, banks' investment schemes like CDs are fake and one can only get rich if he buys gold and silver and stores them in private vaults (because you can't trust banks).

He insists that any education is fake too and one must learn from real life millionaires only.

He also predicts financial Armageddon and so he stockpiles food and oil.

Has anyone else read that book? I don't know what to think. According to him, he's a millionaire.

[Cool Friend]

Well, surely he's accepting gold, silver, oil and food as royalty payments on sales of this book, then?

[roomtempmayo]

Love it when these jokers realize that all non-use value is fiat value and they run around like street preachers who have just seen the light.

What will he do when he realizes that gold also has little inherent value?

Most of the good stuff in our world is socially constructed.  So what?

[Enigma]

FAKE - Fake Money, Fake Teachers, Fake Assets: How Lies Are Making the Poor and Middle Class Poorer
I havent read that book yet but just grabbed it on Audiable.  I will say in my experience Robert is pretty insightful.  I will have a better reply in a few days.

For starters I do not believe he is completely off.  Something like 70% of most mutual funds fail or are closed over time.  I hear financial advice from just about everyone.  Individuals push whole life insurance policies like it is candy, and my coworkers are raving about their new cars (one with a new camper RV that cost $80k).  I see fake assets, teachers, and money all the time.  He never struck me as a doomsday author.  We will see

[Car Jack]

As someone who has millions of dollars, I'll tell you that my opinion is that this guy is a moron.

[wenchsenior]

He's always seemed like 85% con man/15% practical good advice to me.  Looks like he's shifted that ratio to 99%/1% in his ongoing quest to sell books.

[cowpuncher10]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

[CowboyAndIndian]

He's always seemed like 85% con man/15% practical good advice to me.  Looks like he's shifted that ratio to 99%/1% in his ongoing quest to sell books.

+1

The only good point he made in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was the difference between an Asset and a Liability. It is seriously needed by those who want to "invest" in a car!

[fattest_foot]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

This. Smart people would stockpile alcohol. I guarantee in a doomsday scenario I'll get a lot more in trade if I have something like ammo, medical supplies, food, or alcohol, than some silver bullion.

[Khaetra]

I always have a good laugh at the folks who say to stockpile precious metals.  What are you supposed to do with it if 'doomsday' did happen?  Who wants gold/silver when they are hungry or thirsty?  Commodities like food, water, ammo, plants (veg/fruit), etc. are much more valuable in those types of situations.

[Wrenchturner]

Possessing a firearm and not getting shot are probably the only insurance policies you can have in a situation like that.

[PDXTabs]

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

Right? Don't stockpile gold. Stockpile ammunition, toilet paper, cigarettes, tampons, and bandages. Trade those for whatever you need.

[Typhoid Mary]

I don’t stockpile precious metals because I worry about the fiat system failing or a doomsday event. I do it so I can roll around in it someday like Scrooge McDuck.


Also, it’s shiny and pretty.
And also it’s a very very small diversification of my savings.

[Classical_Liberal]

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

Right? Don't stockpile gold. Stockpile ammunition, toilet paper, cigarettes, tampons, and bandages. Trade those for whatever you need.

From people who have actually gone through economic meltdowns, I've read its more liquor and cigarettes that are worth their weight in gold. 

[chasesfish]

As someone who has millions of dollars, I'll tell you that my opinion is that this guy is a moron.

+1.  Also as a millionaire, I think past RDPD, look elsewhere for advice.

Rich Dad Poor Dad was a good book.  Since then I sense the author has experienced a long cognitive decline

[seattlecyclone]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

Agreed. I have to think that the hoarding of precious metals could maybe pay off well after the initial SHTF event, where your stores of food and ammo have allowed you to survive the worst of it. Eventually some sort of money economy would emerge beyond pure barter for necessities. Gold and silver could possibly fill that void until some sort of electronic banking system re-emerges. I agree it doesn't really seem like a thing that is worth devoting resources now to prepare for.

[Telecaster]

Agreed. I have to think that the hoarding of precious metals could maybe pay off well after the initial SHTF event, where your stores of food and ammo have allowed you to survive the worst of it. Eventually some sort of money economy would emerge beyond pure barter for necessities. Gold and silver could possibly fill that void until some sort of electronic banking system re-emerges. I agree it doesn't really seem like a thing that is worth devoting resources now to prepare for.

I don't know we'd even have to wait that long.  Throughout history people have used all kinds of things as currency.  Leather tokens, notched sticks, paper notes, etc. 

[EngagedToFIRE]

As someone who has millions of dollars, I'll tell you that my opinion is that this guy is a moron.

+1.  Also as a millionaire, I think past RDPD, look elsewhere for advice.

Rich Dad Poor Dad was a good book.  Since then I sense the author has experienced a long cognitive decline

Midas Touch was pretty good.

[aceyou]

My plan:

1.  Throughout most catastrophes in the past, being educated enough to see shit coming, and having the money to relocate to a different part of the world seems to be the ticket. 

2.  If it was so bad, so fast that even that wasn't possible, then I plan to be one of the people who dies early on. 

Seems like a solid plan to me that to minimize my unhappiness in the .01% chance something like that happened. 

[CowboyAndIndian]

My plan:

1.  Throughout most catastrophes in the past, being educated enough to see shit coming, and having the money to relocate to a different part of the world seems to be the ticket. 

2.  If it was so bad, so fast that even that wasn't possible, then I plan to be one of the people who dies early on. 

Seems like a solid plan to me that to minimize my unhappiness in the .01% chance something like that happened.

+1

You forgot to add the third point

• Practice your stretching so that you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye ;-)
  

[Metalcat]

Yeah...okay...

Really, medication is by far the most important thing to stockpile in an apocalypse type event, but sure, let's all collect silver coins. Sounds fun.

As a medical professional who lives with someone who is literally an emergency management expert, the things people think of to worry about make me laugh, and the strategies they come up with to manage risk are hysterical.

I'm related to an antivax prepper, gun fanatic, with tens of thousands in silver coins. Meanwhile I guarantee that DH and I are infinitely more prepared and adapted to almost every single actual realistic emergency that could/will actually happen.

Sure, the world, money, and education are fake, whatever that even means, but that doesn't mean that efforts to be 'real' aren't also total fucking nonsense.

If angst about the security and safety of the world triggers you to buy a book by RDPD, then you've already lost.

[Omy]

My plan:

1.  Throughout most catastrophes in the past, being educated enough to see shit coming, and having the money to relocate to a different part of the world seems to be the ticket. 

Where would you go? Asking for a friend...

[Metalcat]

My plan:

1.  Throughout most catastrophes in the past, being educated enough to see shit coming, and having the money to relocate to a different part of the world seems to be the ticket. 

Where would you go? Asking for a friend...

My guess is that that would depend on the catastrophe.

[MilesTeg]

Gold (et al.) are not good investments, and a poor choice for an apocalypse scenario (knowledge, food, medicine, guns, ammo, salt)

But they are good for the far more likely monetary/financial or political crisis.

[Imma]

I don't know where preppers get the idea that guns and ammo are what you need when shit hits the fan and people starve.

I am fortunate enough to have been born in a place and time that I've never wanted for anything. My grandparents were born not long after WWI and were young adults during WWII. They lived in places that were bombed out. From their personal experience, starvation doesn't make people violent and active. On the contrary, starving people become very passive and lose the will to do anything. The whole country was quietly and gently starving to death without any civil unrest or any serious resistance to Nazi troops, simply because they were too hungry to even think about anything. Back then there were hardly any gun regulations, most people would have had guns and ammo, very few people used them to get access to more food.

In a situation like WWII, a disaster that everybody saw coming, money in my bank account, access to credit and degrees will likely allow us to get visas to safe countries. One set of my grandparents desperately tried to move to the US in the late 30s because they saw WWII coming, but were too poor to make it work.

[Metalcat]

Gold (et al.) are not good investments, and a poor choice for an apocalypse scenario (knowledge, food, medicine, guns, ammo, salt)

But they are good for the far more likely monetary/financial or political crisis.

Good in what way though? There are endless scenarios where a central government can just take gold from their citizens if they need it for some reason.

I see very very few scenarios where the private ownership of some gold will significantly improve someone's safety in an economic collapse kind of situation.

Who do you sell it to in the event of economic collapse?? How does that work???

I mean, yeah, theoretically it could be useful, but practically, I would think that a small personal collection of gold isn't likely to be a major game changer for most private middle class citizens.

There are also endless scenarios that don't involve acute apocalyptic events or total economic collapse.

Aside from nuclear war, the overwhelming majority of files that public safety works on are not apocalypse-type events with mass population destruction and absolute collapse of centralized government.

That's the stuff of great television, but shouldn't account for any significant component of anyone's risk management plan. Certainly not a significant portion of their investment planning.

There are many many varied states of ongoing emergency that everyone should be concerned about, but that guns and gold will do absolutely nothing to help with.

That said, I think there is enormous utility in acknowledging that your 'stache can only provide you with so much security, and that depending on it to keep you safe in all possible scenarios is kind of nuts.

Play smart within the system you live, and don't expect any system to magically keep you safe...nor any stockpile of anything.

[thesis]

I've long thought that the gun stockpiling was hilarious. Your best bet in a doomsday scenario is not so much being well-armed (or even well-stocked in anything) as it is being good at getting along with other people and being willing to contribute to a community. There's strength in numbers.

How is this so overlooked? Negotiation, conflict management, and practical skills would be immensely valuable in a collapse situation.

(I also believe that most people really do not want to kill others, and will try to avoid this if possible. People will prefer cooperation with others they trust before they just outright want to whack somebody. But I'm no psychologist)

[thesis]

Actually, as I think more about this, if your value to people is only contingent upon your possession of certain in-demand items, what happens when your stockpile runs out? It never hurts to have some preparation for short or medium-term instabilities, but you need a more robust approach for the long term, and just being a decent, agreeable person will likely do well for you. You may not have medication, but if you're willing to help your neighbors forage, you'll probably gain allies and friends much more easily.

[DadJokes]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

This. Smart people would stockpile alcohol. I guarantee in a doomsday scenario I'll get a lot more in trade if I have something like ammo, medical supplies, food, or alcohol, than some silver bullion.

Not if the doomsday scenario is a vampire attack. Then you'll feel pretty dumb for not stockpiling silver to kill them with.

[partgypsy]

I don't have a lot of personal experience with shtf situations, but I remember my Dad talking about during WWII Greece was a naval blockade (correction by Britain), plus Germany confiscated most of foodstuffs for their soldiers= mass starving. What worked: people in the country saw what was going on. There was no way to relocate, but when it first started the people who lived on the land, shifted to growing things that would keep versus more perishable produce. They hid food. They hid olive oil somehow in the wine barrels, so they looked like they were full of wine when actually hiding oil. Things weren't so bad at first, but then it went on for years. According to my Dad some towns disappeared after the war due to their population starving to death. People from the city would want to trade a gold watch for a loaf of bread, no takers. What became the currency of choice was olive oil, because people would barter oil for other things. So people walked around with pitchers of olive oil to barter for items of survival. Gold didn't help at all in that situation.

[Imma]

I don't have a lot of personal experience with shtf situations, but I remember my Dad talking about during WWII Greece was a naval blockade (correction by Britain), plus Germany confiscated most of foodstuffs for their soldiers= mass starving. What worked: people in the country saw what was going on. There was no way to relocate, but when it first started the people who lived on the land, shifted to growing things that would keep versus more perishable produce. They hid food. They hid olive oil somehow in the wine barrels, so they looked like they were full of wine when actually hiding oil. Things weren't so bad at first, but then it went on for years. According to my Dad some towns disappeared after the war due to their population starving to death. People from the city would want to trade a gold watch for a loaf of bread, no takers. What became the currency of choice was olive oil, because people would barter oil for other things. So people walked around with pitchers of olive oil to barter for items of survival. Gold didn't help at all in that situation.

Reading this I just remembered my grandma told me that her family had a hidden stash of coffee and tea that they used for bartering. Real coffee and tea were very scarce from early on in the war. They were able to create a stash before the war started.

[partgypsy]

Yeah. I think what is useful and what is not, can depend on the situation. If you could get out, then gold, jewelry etc is helpful for smuggling out as well as bribing your way out. Guns and ammo did not help in my Dad's situation (Greece), because weapons were confiscated (as well as boats, donkeys etc) but in another situation if you were surviving in the middle of nowhere it could help. I think this all argues for the fact that the present day generations in the US incredibly lucky not to have had to live through occupation and war, and what people consider "bad times" are relative. If anything it should prompt that keeping up with current issues, voting in leaders who will not make rash decisions either militarily or environmentally, are also important risk mitigation strategies.   

[PDXTabs]

I think this all argues for the fact that the present day generations in the US incredibly lucky not to have had to live through occupation and war, and what people consider "bad times" are relative.

While good for the people living here, I think it leads to poor decisions. Not many people in the US remember what it is like to have your house blown up or your family denied asylum.

[MilesTeg]

Gold (et al.) are not good investments, and a poor choice for an apocalypse scenario (knowledge, food, medicine, guns, ammo, salt)

But they are good for the far more likely monetary/financial or political crisis.

Good in what way though? There are endless scenarios where a central government can just take gold from their citizens if they need it for some reason.

I see very very few scenarios where the private ownership of some gold will significantly improve someone's safety in an economic collapse kind of situation.

Who do you sell it to in the event of economic collapse?? How does that work???

I mean, yeah, theoretically it could be useful, but practically, I would think that a small personal collection of gold isn't likely to be a major game changer for most private middle class citizens.

There are also endless scenarios that don't involve acute apocalyptic events or total economic collapse.

Aside from nuclear war, the overwhelming majority of files that public safety works on are not apocalypse-type events with mass population destruction and absolute collapse of centralized government.

That's the stuff of great television, but shouldn't account for any significant component of anyone's risk management plan. Certainly not a significant portion of their investment planning.

There are many many varied states of ongoing emergency that everyone should be concerned about, but that guns and gold will do absolutely nothing to help with.

That said, I think there is enormous utility in acknowledging that your 'stache can only provide you with so much security, and that depending on it to keep you safe in all possible scenarios is kind of nuts.

Play smart within the system you live, and don't expect any system to magically keep you safe...nor any stockpile of anything.

You still seem to be focusing on apocalyptic, society collapse scenarios rather than the much more likely monetary/economic crisis such as tue 1930s (and many others). Having some of your wealth in something with an extremely stable value that is a good thing in those situations. Situations where, say your 6 month emergency fund becomes only enough currency to last a month, whereas the same value in gold will hold its value and give you a better chance of holding on until society pulls its shit together or gives you the ability to get out.

It's not an investment, it's an insurance policy.

[Metalcat]

You still seem to be focusing on apocalyptic, society collapse scenarios rather than the much more likely monetary/economic crisis such as tue 1930s (and many others). Having some of your wealth in something with an extremely stable value that is a good thing in those situations. Situations where, say your 6 month emergency fund becomes only enough currency to last a month, whereas the same value in gold will hold its value and give you a better chance of holding on until society pulls its shit together or gives you the ability to get out.

It's not an investment, it's an insurance policy.

I don't disagree with a little diversification, my point is that there are SO MANY emergency situations and tremendously few of them will benefit from having a bit of personal gold on hand.

I mean, if someone were to hand me a bar of gold and say "you can only keep this if you save it for an economic collapse", then yeah, I'll happily take the gold.

However, I'm not going to go diverting much of my own personal wealth into gold in the event of a particular type of economic collapse where I can actually find a way to utilize it.

In a holistic risk management analysis of all of my options, it doesn't strike me as a worthwhile trade off. I can think of far more robust investments in my personal security in the event of sustained emergency than some gold.

[Classical_Liberal]

In a holistic risk management analysis of all of my options, it doesn't strike me as a worthwhile trade off. I can think of far more robust investments in my personal security in the event of sustained emergency than some gold.

I have been joking before, but a more serious answer to the question.

Most "prepper" types tend to focus on how to "hunker down" in these potential events. However, more recent history, with a more human-full world, has taught us that the risk of a systemic collapse is much more likely to occur due to the formation of a far left or right totalitarian government. These type of governments are also generally the instigators of societal changing wars.

I would make the argument that anyone concerned about the very small, yet real chance of SHTF at some point in their life, to look towards a "be mobile" type of defense.  This strategy would have worked much better in the collapses of recent centuries. In this strategy (upon execution) human skills, plus lack of attachment to physical locations and/or things is key to success.   I would argue that having a small stash of hard to trace portable wealth is not the worst thing either.  Low five figures of such wealth would help reestablish someone in a new location and would have negligible effect on standard investing strategies.  In modern age this doesn't have to be gold.

The biggest hurdle to this strategy is knowing when and where to move. I think hindsight is 20/20, when in the moment making such a decision is much more difficult.  There is also the problem of type 2 errors, ie jumping the gun and going in situations that end up self rectifying.

[PDXTabs]

I'm with Classical_Liberal, and this is why having a second passport is so great. My worst case scenario is to make it to a consulate. But even if you don't have a second passport, running away is still a good option. That's how my family got out of Western Russia ~110 years ago when stuff got bad for certain groups.

[MilesTeg]

You still seem to be focusing on apocalyptic, society collapse scenarios rather than the much more likely monetary/economic crisis such as tue 1930s (and many others). Having some of your wealth in something with an extremely stable value that is a good thing in those situations. Situations where, say your 6 month emergency fund becomes only enough currency to last a month, whereas the same value in gold will hold its value and give you a better chance of holding on until society pulls its shit together or gives you the ability to get out.

It's not an investment, it's an insurance policy.

I don't disagree with a little diversification, my point is that there are SO MANY emergency situations and tremendously few of them will benefit from having a bit of personal gold on hand.

I mean, if someone were to hand me a bar of gold and say "you can only keep this if you save it for an economic collapse", then yeah, I'll happily take the gold.

However, I'm not going to go diverting much of my own personal wealth into gold in the event of a particular type of economic collapse where I can actually find a way to utilize it.

In a holistic risk management analysis of all of my options, it doesn't strike me as a worthwhile trade off. I can think of far more robust investments in my personal security in the event of sustained emergency than some gold.

I think you are underestimating the probability of what I am talking about. Major economic problems, either from financial tomfoolery or from war has happened to nearly every generation. 2008/9 might have been ours, or might have been just a road bump. Boomers and gen-x have lived in a golden age of relative stability, but it won't last.

Putting 3-4% of your wealth (what we do) into something that actually has value in such scenarios doesn't seem like a huge burden to mitigate something that will almost certainly happen.

[MrDelane]

Robert Kiyosaki seems to have made his money selling his fictional story of success via Amway, through 'distributors' who were essentially told to buy his book and tapes.  Prior to that there is no evidence of the financial success he claimed to have had.

That doesn't mean his advice is worthless necessarily.  But, best case scenario, I would take anything he has to say with the same weight you would take anything I, a complete stranger on the internet, have to say.

[Radagast]

I don't know where preppers get the idea that guns and ammo are what you need when shit hits the fan and people starve.

Total agreement. All the situations where shit really hit the fan (which it has never done in the US, except possibly for the South in the Civil War) a fire arm of any type would have been, rounding, worthless. As an example in the news, imagine that a firearm would be about about as useful as it would have been to a foot soldier in the battle for Normandy. Of course most soldiers never fired a shot. Most of those that did never hit an enemy. And they were trained and organized and well supplied, with coordinated movements and standardized weapons. And they had more or less the best technology in the world at the time to help them. The average yahoo today would have none of those except "never fired a shot / never hit a target"
and would be far less effective than the already hopelessly ineffective average individual WW2 rifleman. They would make the French resistance look very effective by comparison.

People underestimate just how large the forces at play and how useless the hapless individual are in these cases. In the epic clashes that bring down a large country along with its economy and currency you would be better off with a fly swatter (or seriously gold). If you don't believe me read about some military defeats or societal regime changes. But yeah if you did manage to live with a stash of gold (is it secret? is it safe?) to a safer time or place, it would be like a bank transfer from yourself a decade ago. Better and more useful than ammo.

Also I have no interest in the Rich Dad Poor Dad guy :-|

[gaja]

There are no histories about starvation* in my family, because there will always be fish and potatoes. And some beets, in case of a potato blight. So my recommended prepping list:
-boat and fishing gear
-salt
-seed potatoes
-a still to turn those potatoes into alcohol

*plenty of tales of being hungry, and being sick due to lack of nutrients. And of being really fed up of the taste of fish and potatoes. But it didn’t get as bad as starving to death.

[Imma]

No one in my family starved to death either, but they were severely malnourished for years. 20.000 other people did die. Ironically this famine led to the discovery of the cause of gluten allergy as a group of very ill kids suddenly started to recover when the hospital ran out of bread.

[cowpuncher10]

While I am inclined to agree that a community will come together the examples of WWI and WWII families, in my opinion, are drastically different than what has occurred in our more recent history. You have to realize people living back then were of a different ilk capable of planting a garden or able to live a more "lean" life than people today. I think a more realistic example of what you could expect would be Bosnia...more recent and more indicative, to me, of what you could expect.

This isn't to discount anyone else just throwing out a different, and more recent, example of bad scenarios.

[ctuser1]

Making sure you vote is likely a far more efficient prepping strategy than any stockpiling.

There is serious economic research tying representative democracy to a specific type of economic disaster - famine and food shortage (google ‘Amartya Sen’ and his work on femine). It seems reasonable to me that other types of man made disasters (war, regime change etc) would also have a strong causal relationship with representative democracy.

It can’t happen here in the US you say??

Consider, two of the last three presidents were first elected with minority vote. They appointed three out of the 9 lifetime USSC justices while only having the mandate from a minority of the population. We have already seen the unnecessary wars, an economic crisis likely partially caused by extreme right wing economic policies etc etc etc..

The stockpiling of alcohol and cigarettes might become necessary if this erosion of democracy continues.

[cowpuncher10]

Making sure you vote is likely a far more efficient prepping strategy than any stockpiling.

There is serious economic research tying representative democracy to a specific type of economic disaster - famine and food shortage (google ‘Amartya Sen’ and his work on femine). It seems reasonable to me that other types of man made disasters (war, regime change etc) would also have a strong causal relationship with representative democracy.

It can’t happen here in the US you say??

Consider, two of the last three presidents were first elected with minority vote. They appointed three out of the 9 lifetime USSC justices while only having the mandate from a minority of the population. We have already seen the unnecessary wars, an economic crisis likely partially caused by extreme right wing economic policies etc etc etc..

The stockpiling of alcohol and cigarettes might become necessary if this erosion of democracy continues.

You're right. Far left wing economic policies have worked so well before in the past....and now for Venezuela....

[ctuser1]

Making sure you vote is likely a far more efficient prepping strategy than any stockpiling.

There is serious economic research tying representative democracy to a specific type of economic disaster - famine and food shortage (google ‘Amartya Sen’ and his work on femine). It seems reasonable to me that other types of man made disasters (war, regime change etc) would also have a strong causal relationship with representative democracy.

It can’t happen here in the US you say??

Consider, two of the last three presidents were first elected with minority vote. They appointed three out of the 9 lifetime USSC justices while only having the mandate from a minority of the population. We have already seen the unnecessary wars, an economic crisis likely partially caused by extreme right wing economic policies etc etc etc..

The stockpiling of alcohol and cigarettes might become necessary if this erosion of democracy continues.

You're right. Far left wing economic policies have worked so well before in the past....and now for Venezuela....

Partial implementation of them worked rather well in US, during 60s.
They do continue to work really well in Scandinavian countries.

You don’t think American policies will work in America??

Venezuela relate to the so called ‘left wing’ policies in the same way Somalia relate to right wing policies. Everything - defense, law, police, justice, economy - are all in private hands there. It’s total free market. No silly government to impose property rights and such. That must be an utopia??!!

[Parizade]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

This. Smart people would stockpile alcohol. I guarantee in a doomsday scenario I'll get a lot more in trade if I have something like ammo, medical supplies, food, or alcohol, than some silver bullion.

Not if the doomsday scenario is a vampire attack. Then you'll feel pretty dumb for not stockpiling silver to kill them with.

Silver won't help you when the Zombie Apocolypse comes. I'm investing in a vulture farm where we train the birds specifically to eat the undead. None of those Walkers will get anywhere near me.

[wenchsenior]

I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for a natural disaster by having some food stores.

I absolutely die inside when "preppers" talk about using gold or silver in the event of some kind of calamity as a currency. I wouldn't give you a single roll of toilet paper for 500 lbs of gold in the even SHTF.

This. Smart people would stockpile alcohol. I guarantee in a doomsday scenario I'll get a lot more in trade if I have something like ammo, medical supplies, food, or alcohol, than some silver bullion.

Not if the doomsday scenario is a vampire attack. Then you'll feel pretty dumb for not stockpiling silver to kill them with.

Silver won't help you when the Zombie Apocolypse comes. I'm investing in a vulture farm where we train the birds specifically to eat the undead. None of those Walkers will get anywhere near me.

And vultures projectile vomit, which might also come in handy.  Ask me how I know.

[PDXTabs]

The average yahoo today would have none of those except "never fired a shot / never hit a target"
and would be far less effective than the already hopelessly ineffective average individual WW2 rifleman. They would make the French resistance look very effective by comparison.

I like the sentiment of your post more than the content. I think that you underestimate how many young people we have sent to Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 16 years. I think that you also underestimate the deterrent effect of eight adults with AR-15s and body armor hunkered down when three of them have seen combat before.

In total, all services contributed 3.1 million troop-years of experience and 58 percent of those years can be attributed to the Army. According to RAND, 1.33 million individuals deployed with the Army between 2001 and 2015 (including the Reserve and National Guard), along with 563,000 from the Navy, 518,000 from the Air Force and 367,000 Marines. Considering the length of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a substantial number of those serving across all services have gone on several deployments. Around 225,000 soldiers who served with the Army deployed at least three times or more. - https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/03/20/2-77-million-service-members-have-served-on-5-4-million-deployments-since-911-infographic/

That doesn't even consider the military contractors, but those folks are almost universally ex-military anyway. It also doesn't count anyone that served in the 90s.

[cowpuncher10]

Making sure you vote is likely a far more efficient prepping strategy than any stockpiling.

There is serious economic research tying representative democracy to a specific type of economic disaster - famine and food shortage (google ‘Amartya Sen’ and his work on femine). It seems reasonable to me that other types of man made disasters (war, regime change etc) would also have a strong causal relationship with representative democracy.

It can’t happen here in the US you say??

Consider, two of the last three presidents were first elected with minority vote. They appointed three out of the 9 lifetime USSC justices while only having the mandate from a minority of the population. We have already seen the unnecessary wars, an economic crisis likely partially caused by extreme right wing economic policies etc etc etc..

The stockpiling of alcohol and cigarettes might become necessary if this erosion of democracy continues.

You're right. Far left wing economic policies have worked so well before in the past....and now for Venezuela....

Partial implementation of them worked rather well in US, during 60s.
They do continue to work really well in Scandinavian countries.

You don’t think American policies will work in America??

Venezuela relate to the so called ‘left wing’ policies in the same way Somalia relate to right wing policies. Everything - defense, law, police, justice, economy - are all in private hands there. It’s total free market. No silly government to impose property rights and such. That must be an utopia??!!

Yeah those Scandanavian countries are doing SO well right now. Not like there aren't some cracks in the facade to their social welfare systems starting to show or anything....https://www.reuters.com/article/us-denmark-election-welfare-insight/danes-make-welfare-a-hot-election-issue-as-cracks-show-in-nordic-model-idUSKCN1SZ0IC

Equating Somalia to "right wing" politics is hilarious. Not like it is in a region that has been war torn due to religious or ethnic ideologies....I guess by that same token we can start saying that Venezuela is now showing right wing policies due to the "free market" that is popping up by failures in their government.

I am firmly of the belief that constant relating everything to politics is boring, tiresome, and honestly lazy.

I am a moderate. I have voted multi party in the same election several times before you trot out the whole bigoted racist trumpist lines because I MUST fit in one of those boxes as a fiscally conservative, 2A supporting, socially liberal individual. Please do continue though and tell us of all the free market economies that have brought about ruin to entire countries though...