Getting out of the military after 10 years

[turning_hapanese]

I'm a little over 9 years in the AF and my wife and I have started the discussion about getting out of active duty and going Guard/Reserve to maintain basic benefits and work towards extra retirement income. I have a B.S. in psychology, and a very solid financial cushion. I've already been met with resistance from co-workers about getting out, but I know they mean well. The military has been great to me, but it's putting a strain on my marriage and I don't think I can deal with it for another 10 years. Does anyone have any experiences with transitioning to ANG/Reserves? Am I making a poor financial decision? Any tips on making the transition as smooth as possible, while still maintaining the mustachian way of life? Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. My AF career field is RF Transmissions Systems, but I'm very open to crosstraining into something else (i.e. mental health) I'd much rather help people with their problems than fix their comm related issues. I've even looked into the Troops to Teachers program to become a teacher or maybe a guidance counselor some day. Also, we don't have any children at this time.

[Retired To Win]

... Am I making a poor financial decision? Any tips on making the transition as smooth as possible, while still maintaining the mustachian way of life? Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I think we would need some specific numbers to be able to address your question.

[turning_hapanese]

I've got about $37K in stocks/CD's
$42K ROTH IRA
$47K TSP

As an E-5, my take home is about $2400 a month, while contributing about $700 a month to tax deferred TSP.

Also, no debts.

[Bob W]

Many jobs suck here in the real world.  IMHO your friends are correct.  You can finish you AF career and retire in 10 years making bank on retirement and benefits while growing a huge stach.    You could probably save at least 70% of your current pay.   You could then retire at age 43 and even double dip with another Gov job if you like at that time.

So my advice is don't be too quick to decide because your having a moment of disharmony.   Say to yourself,  I think I'll do this another 2 years and see where I'm at then.     Reassess every 2 years.   

One little secret you may not know is that time accelerates each year older you become.  So in 4  years  each year will be passing at the equivalent of 6 months.  It is a weird phenomena and I wish there was a better measure of life lived rather than years.    So really, what you perceive as 10 years now will ultimately pass in 5-6 year of perception time.  Yeah,  I know a little to out there, but still true.   

No matter what you do -- you will be 43 in 10 years.  No getting around that. 

[turning_hapanese]

I joined late, so I know how the job market can be, but I've been personally feeling this disharmony since my first enlistment. I was really close to getting out after 6 years, but I took the advice of my friends at the time and stayed in to "give it another chance". At what point do you sacrifice happiness for a steady paycheck and benefits? All I know is I haven't been happy with the military lifestyle for a while and the thought of 10 more years does not sound appealing. At least with the Guard/Reserve I can have a civilian job that I might actually like.

[SaintM]

We can't answer your question.  All jobs have the risk of working for a jerk for a boss, long hours, feeling of underpayment, and other factors.  The military adds deployments to hostile locations and PCS moves, which can be a good or bad thing.  On the positive side, despite all the budget posturing and the commission study, military pay and benefits is better in many respects than equivalent civilian jobs.  The retirement plan is practically nonexistent in the civilian world.

As a married couple, you know it's a team effort.  You have to be happy and your spouse has to be happy.  I don't know anything about your spouse and how she fits in at Misawa.  Just about every military family social function is focused on kids.  I imagine that's even greater so in Japan.

[wordnerd]

I joined late, so I know how the job market can be, but I've been personally feeling this disharmony since my first enlistment. I was really close to getting out after 6 years, but I took the advice of my friends at the time and stayed in to "give it another chance". At what point do you sacrifice happiness for a steady paycheck and benefits? All I know is I haven't been happy with the military lifestyle for a while and the thought of 10 more years does not sound appealing. At least with the Guard/Reserve I can have a civilian job that I might actually like.

What kind of civilian jobs are you thinking about?

[NorCal]

I left the Army in 2006 and never looked back.  I assume the financial aspects you're concerned about are retirement and health care related.  These are a big deal, but not as big of a deal as your co-workers are making it out to be.  It sounds like the "cost" of keeping those benefits is your marriage.  Is that a price you're willing to pay?

Whether it's a good or bad financial decision really depends on what you would be doing instead.  Are you looking at a $30K/yr income or a $100K/yr income in the private sector.  Figure that piece out.

I actually did time in the reserves before I went active duty.  Whether or not that's a good choice depends on what your civilian career will be.  Some civilian careers work well with reserve commitment, others don't. 

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk through specifics of what you're thinking about.

[2ndTimer]

In what way is the AF straining your marriage and by how much?  If you like the AF otherwise can you address the strain in some other way than by leaving?  Full disclosure:  The Hub did something like this because he really didn't enjoy his military job much.  Recently we were discussing retirement with his older brother who was a cop and I could definitely see the Hub thinking that if he had stayed in he would be looking at something similar instead of the much smaller pension he will get because he did most of his time in the Nat Guard.

[paddedhat]

My father did ten, as a pilot. He started in 67'. By the mid-70s, the volunteer Army had hit rock bottom, quality wise, and he was being pushed hard to take the next step, and become a Major. He didn't think he could handle ten years at a desk, being a well dressed bureaucrat. He was suffering the same itch as you are, and just new the grass was going to be greener without the uniform. He did real well in civilian life, but by the time he reached middle age he was quite clear that leaving before he did his twenty was the biggest career mistake he ever made.

[turning_hapanese]

 

We can't answer your question.  All jobs have the risk of working for a jerk for a boss, long hours, feeling of underpayment, and other factors.  The military adds deployments to hostile locations and PCS moves, which can be a good or bad thing.  On the positive side, despite all the budget posturing and the commission study, military pay and benefits is better in many respects than equivalent civilian jobs.  The retirement plan is practically nonexistent in the civilian world.

As a married couple, you know it's a team effort.  You have to be happy and your spouse has to be happy.  I don't know anything about your spouse and how she fits in at Misawa.  Just about every military family social function is focused on kids.  I imagine that's even greater so in Japan.

The marriage aspect is a new element for me. We've been married for a year now, but it's pretty clear she is not meant for the military lifestyle. Plus, I know first hand how difficult the lifestyle can be on marriages (my dad is a retired Marine working on marriage #3) If it were up to me, I'd probably be able to suck it up for another 10 years. But I'm willing to sacrifice this stability and risk being back in the civilian world again for the sake of my marriage and future kids. As a military brat myself I always wanted to establish some roots and I think now is as good as time as any. As far as retirement goes, I figured the Guard/Reserves would be a happy medium between some benefits and more potential stability.

[Villanelle]

I guess it depends on how unhappy you are, why you are unhappy and whether there's anything you can do to mitigate some of that.  Only you can do the cost benefit analysis, but I'd have a really hard time giving up military pension and benefits when I was halfway there. 

What are your *realistic* career prospects when you get out?

Does commissioning hold any appeal?  If so, have you looked into any of the AF programs to see if you have a shot at that?  I don't know how that might help your marriage, but might it help with your job satisfaction? 

Is part of the strain on your marriage because you are OCONUS?  If so, is there a good chance you can get back stateside for your next orders, and stay there?  I know first hand how hard OCONUS living can be on a spouse in some cases.  Or is your wife Japanese, not wanting to leave Japan, in which case the opposite question comes into play. (And if you get out, I assume you'd have to head back to the States to work, in which case how that will affect her becomes relevant.)  Since your marriage is new, do you think she might settle in and adapt?

[MiningFrugal]

I concur with Bob W.

Do the real math first. Most people getting out are surprised at the the difference between military and civilian pay.

Most of your pay is tax free. Your healthcare is free for you, cheap for dependents. Your retirement is priceless.

As an E-5 now, I'd guess you would need to make about $80,000 per year on the civilian side to break even on your monthly net pay. Keep in mind, you will be likely be paying state and federal tax on all your income as a civilian--not just the base pay anymore. This also means you will likely be in a much higher tax bracket.

Health insurance for a family will probably run you $400-$600 per month. You'll also need to cover your co-pays and anything else your insurance doesn't cover. If you have a family, this can get expensive.

With the military, you can retire with another 10 year obligation. I don't know your age now, but odds are you'll need to work around 30 or so more years on the civilian sector before you can accomplish the same. My guess is you come to this blog because you're interested in early retirement. How does the potential of working another 30 years fit in to that plan? Have you considered the dollar value of healthcare and retirement for the 20 or so years you would be eligible to collect, all prior to reaching the minimum retirement age on the civilian sector? My guess is the numbers over half a million dollars for 10 more years, and that's over and above your normal pay.

Fact is, if you're looking to retire early, you probably aren't going to enjoy the rat race regardless of what sector you are in. On your current path, you can exit the race in 10 years. Don't make that 30 years.

There's always a good reason to be in or get out of the military. Take a few hours to do the hard math now. It's better than giving up 20 years of your life to realize it later. Once you have a firm understanding of all the facts, you can make an educated decision. Don't be one of those people that get impressed early on when looking at the gross pay. The bring home is likely less that half that.

[2527]

I was dissatisfied at the 10 year point, but stayed in and got my pension and I am very glad I did.  The civilian world has been much more difficult than I thought it would be.  The pension is like winning the lottery.

Either way, you will have stress to work through.

[turning_hapanese]

No one seems to be addressing the ANG/Reserve option. I acknowledge that I've sacrificed 10 years and only 10 years away from that magical pot of gold, but I'd still get credit for my time on AD, discounted health care and a small paycheck along with the freedom to not be tethered to the headaches of AD. While I know I'm on an early retirement forum, I'm not in as much of a rush as some of you seem to be. I want to establish some roots and pursue a job that I actually enjoy (i.e. teaching, counselor). Does anyone have any experience going from AD to Guard/Reserves?

[cautiouspessimist]

I got out at 8 years and haven't regretted it for one second. I got a lot of the same kind of talk I imagine you're getting. That you're 'halfway there'. While the current military retirement system is pretty good, it's already changed since when I joined, and there's no reason why they can't change it again in the next ten years. Honestly, if you don't enjoy it, it's not worth spending ten years in order to get the retirement benefits. It's ten years of your life. Sure, there's a decent chance that you'd end up with some other sort of nightmarish work situation, but non-military bad work situations are a lot more manageable.

Does your wife work? If she does, then getting out and going to school full time for your masters on the GI Bill could be a very good move. Between her salary and the BAH/stipend from the GI Bill you'll still be able to get along swimmingly. Once you get out you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a job in the mental health field (should you want to do that), but that generally requires a master's degree.

[RFAAOATB]

I went from Army active to guard and for the most part it was a good deal.  Look into leveling up to officer https://www.goang.com/join/officers and leave that enlisted scrub life behind.  Do not commit to leaving active duty until you are sure you are getting a non bullshit job on the outside.  I had to deal with a bullshit job when I got out and it sucked.  Going AGR was a lifesaver for a bit during that time and it can be an option if you miss the active side.

[cautiouspessimist]

No one seems to be addressing the ANG/Reserve option. I acknowledge that I've sacrificed 10 years and only 10 years away from that magical pot of gold, but I'd still get credit for my time on AD, discounted health care and a small paycheck along with the freedom to not be tethered to the headaches of AD. While I know I'm on an early retirement forum, I'm not in as much of a rush as some of you seem to be. I want to establish some roots and pursue a job that I actually enjoy (i.e. teaching, counselor). Does anyone have any experience going from AD to Guard/Reserves?

My friend did this. He just got out of the reserves a couple of months ago because (to him) it just ended up not being worth it. I don't have any personal experience with it, but as far as I understand you'd need to be in the reserves more than an additional 10 years in order to get full benefits. This could be an option, but I don't know that I'd recommend it. Can't really speak against it either, though.

[shitzmagee]

It sounds like you already know what you want but just need a little reassurance. Is it a financial mistake...absolutely. Will you be just fine on the outside...yes. You likely won't reach FI as soon as you could if you stay in, but FI isn't everything. If you're unhappy with your job, the sooner you leave to sooner you can find one you are happy with.

Before you make your decision, definitely look into cross training. It seems like the medical-related career fields are a completely different experience.

[CheapskateWife]

There are plenty of divorce stories on this forum about how badly it impacts your NW growth, and so if your spouse is done with the military, then so are you.  If getting out of the military saves a really good marriage, I would do it in a heart beat.  The pension you earn would be cut in half anyway if your marriage doesn't work out, so stay focused on that.  A good marriage can survive the strain, but only if both partners agree that it is what you as a team are working for.  So what is your spouse's stance on all this?  He/she can make or break this whole thing.

I spent a year in the NG after a break in service and frankly got frustrated with how it impacted my civilian career.  The current environment translates to lots of time overseas, and depending on how often your governor volunteers your NG for duty, you could be similarly impacted.  Your civilian employer is required to re-employ you but that doesn't mean that you walk back into your same job.  My father works at a large corporation with a NG officer who deploys regularly, and the impression that other folks have of him is that he is someone who is not able to remain competent in his professional field because of the military distractions.

You are still rather young and can "start over" with a new career quite easily.  I would lean towards that, try the NG or reserves (try them both!) and keep your spouse on board.

[Villanelle]

There are plenty of divorce stories on this forum about how badly it impacts your NW growth, and so if your spouse is done with the military, then so are you.  If getting out of the military saves a really good marriage, I would do it in a heart beat.  The pension you earn would be cut in half anyway if your marriage doesn't work out, so stay focused on that.  A good marriage can survive the strain, but only if both partners agree that it is what you as a team are working for.  So what is your spouse's stance on all this?  He/she can make or break this whole thing.

I spent a year in the NG after a break in service and frankly got frustrated with how it impacted my civilian career.  The current environment translates to lots of time overseas, and depending on how often your governor volunteers your NG for duty, you could be similarly impacted.  Your civilian employer is required to re-employ you but that doesn't mean that you walk back into your same job.  My father works at a large corporation with a NG officer who deploys regularly, and the impression that other folks have of him is that he is someone who is not able to remain competent in his professional field because of the military distractions.

You are still rather young and can "start over" with a new career quite easily.  I would lean towards that, try the NG or reserves (try them both!) and keep your spouse on board.

This isn't accurate.  That would only be true if they'd been married for his entire career.  She's only entitled to half of the pension for the time they were married.  So if he does 20 and they were married for 5 of that, she'd get half of 1/4 of his pension.  Not that this should be a driving factor in his decision making about staying in, but I wanted to point out that the only part of the pension that is community property is the part earned while married.  (Caveat:  this might vary by state law, but I doubt any state give 50% of the whole thing for even a couple year of marriage.)

The experience Cheapskatewife speaks of echoes the experiences of our friends who have gone Reserve (not NG).  While they aren't openly discriminated against (because that would be illegal), their perception (from several friends) is that they are given crappier assignments, passed over for raises and promotions, and are generally hurt professionally by having their reserve commitment.  Several started out determined to make it to retirement and have given up because of the affect it had on their civilian jobs. 

[irishbear99]

My husband got out of the AF at 10 years. His job was putting a huge strain on him physically and mentally (the last few years he was working 12-14 hour days, 6-7 days per week) and put an even larger strain on our marriage. He got out free and clear, no IRR, no AFNG or reserves.

It's worked out really well for us. We developed a plan, saved a metric crapton of money to ease us into the transition, and he agreed to follow me around for my career. It took about 4 months for me to find a job (we were overseas when he separated, and had to transition back to the States), and I've been moving up ever since. The biggest sticker shock was the price of health insurance; however, I have a great government job with good insurance options.

This is a timely topic, as my husband and I were just discussing that, had he stayed in, this year would have been his 20th year. Faced with the reality that we could have started receiving his retirement pay (likely $2,000+/mo) right about now, do we regret it? The answer for both of us is no. Had he stayed in, we'd likely be divorced. Also, his willingness to support my career has led to a level of success in my career that I never would have dreamed possible.

[2ndTimer]

Me again.  The Hub is just getting to the end of his 20 in the Nat Guard.  He has a particularly sweet Guard job working with a unit that is active full time.  His weekday job is working as an Army civilian.  He takes vacation time when his Guard time doesn't fall on the weekends because his boss would rather hear that he is working part time as a male hooker to support his drug habit than that he needs Guard time.  So even a person working for the Army takes a lot of S*&#T about being in the Guard.

[nic1]

My husband was active duty enlisted then went to OTS and became an officer in the Air National Guard.  He was a traditional Guard guy for two years when an AGR position opened up and he has been Active Guard/reserve since then.  AGR is a VERY sweet deal, same benefits as active duty Air Force but no moving unless you decide on it.  These positions are very few and difficult to get but may be an option for you once you get into a Guard unit.  If you do this you are still full time active duty military it just gets rid of the moving every few years which may help with your marriage.  You will still be deployed no matter what you choose (traditional or if you get an AGR position).  My husband travels probably 4 months  out of the year now, but it is just part of our life and I accept it and do my best.  Since we have been married we have also gone through many civilian jobs as well before this AGR position came open.  He is an engineer so is in high demand and can make good money civilian.  However, he travelled at some of those positions also, and the one he had before he obtained the AGR position he was working constantly. This is just to say civilian life is not always great either, however you do have more control and most likely especially if you become a teacher you will not be travelling.
 As a spouse the military is a huge sacrifice.  It is one I am supportive of and have decided to make for our future together, I am also proud of his service and what he has accomplished.  Not every spouse feels this way and that is ok, it sounds like this lifestyle is becoming a problem for your marriage and I personally think you need to do what is best as a family. 

 In 9 years my husband will be 47 and will be able to have a military officers retirement, that is a huge benefit and one we have definitely earned..  You know the sacrifice involved, a lot of tears and deferred gratification to get there and only you and your wife can decide if you want to continue that.  Guard is a great option if your wife is ok with you still being away for training and deployments, because you will still have that. My husband has been to the Middle East and Latvia just recently so just because you go Guard doesn't mean you will just be stateside.    However, your wife may be happier if she can set up roots and have a more stable support system. 

The Guard retirement is still good.  You will not be eligible until age 60 and it is based on points but your active duty time will really add to your benefit.  You will also still be eligible for Tricare while you are in the Guard and then at age 60 when you can start collecting your retirement.  Traditional Guard you do pay monthly for Tricare but it was (it has been 4 years since we were traditional, so it may have changed) 200 dollars a month which is amazing for a family. 

[MrsPete]

Another vote for, Do the math.  Look at what you'll need to make in the civilian world to make up for the benefits you're getting in the military. 

Specifically what problems is the military causing in your marriage?  Are these things that'd be better in the civilian world, or are they things that'd still be problems?  Be sure you don't fall for a "grass is greener" mentality.

What job do you anticipate getting with a BA in Psychology?  That's a degree that usually needs at least a masters to be worth much. 

[Geldsnor]

The 'quit to safe the marriage' argument is bs if you ask me. The lady knew what and whom she married + it is an illusion all will be fine when quitting.

To me it sounds like she just wants to start a family, and does not care too much you trade 10 years for another 30 years. Please take the emotion or pressure applied out of the equation, and make the decision You think is wise, whatever that in the end may be.

[RunHappy]

There is a lot of "it depends".

A BS in psychology isn't going to do much out here in the civilian world.  If the constant travel is getting on you, then maybe look at cross training to something that would be a little more stable, in terms of location.  I know many AF people who have spent years in the same location, so I know it is possible.

If you're planning to get out, I would look at jobs and what you want and what you are qualified for.  I have a couple of officer friends who got out of the military around the 10 or 15 year mark because they "couldn't take it anymore" and have been floundering with lower wage jobs for years.  One recently went back as Active to push through to retirement for financial stability only (would have retired 2 years ago if they stayed in). The reason is their jobs in the military just didn't translate to anything in the civilian world.

Most companies really do want to hire vets, but what they don't want to do is train from the ground up.  They would expect you to immediately be able to swim.

In order to maintain your lifestyle you would need to get a job paying you around $85k+ a year.  That is because of taxes, health care

Personal Story;
My father toughed it out in the military for the full 20 even though he didn't enjoy it.  He met my mother around the 10 year mark and was planning to get out but stayed in for the financial stability it would provide them in the future.  My mother probably wasn't the most military-like wife.  She hated the constant move and refused to live overseas, but she toughed it out along with my father.  Both of them were always good at taking the "long view" of life.  My dad retired in his late 30's. 

Fast forward they are both in their 70's and have had numerous health problems.  If they were "normal" retirees they probably would have gone bankrupt, but due to military benefits most of their hospital bills are $0.  Every house and utilities we ever lived in was based upon my father's retirement pay. All other income went to lifestyle (slightly below average) and savings for retirement.  He retired at 63 flush with money.  It is actually a relief to us kids that we don't have to worry about their financial state in retirement.

[RunHappy]

I joined late, so I know how the job market can be, but I've been personally feeling this disharmony since my first enlistment. I was really close to getting out after 6 years, but I took the advice of my friends at the time and stayed in to "give it another chance". At what point do you sacrifice happiness for a steady paycheck and benefits? All I know is I haven't been happy with the military lifestyle for a while and the thought of 10 more years does not sound appealing. At least with the Guard/Reserve I can have a civilian job that I might actually like.

You might like it, but you also might hate it more than your current job.

The grass may look greener, but it stills need to be cut, watered, and seeded.

[EricL]

As an Army retiree I'm a big fan of the pension. But my circumstances were very different when I decided to stay in than yours (a marginally useless degree, the wars, and being older than most peers, and being an officer). Even then there were times I would rather have had that 6-10 years of freedom than the pension. If you're genuinely unhappy with military life and do your homework and find you can get a job with equivalent or better wages (after taxes and such) - GO!  The military doesn't need unhappy troops - they spread the misery.  You have a decent shot with MMM as a guide to do as well or better outside. Definitely get Nords' book if you haven't already.  BTW, the reserves can be a great place to network a new job from if whatever you line up falls through. 

As an aside, it's not that military pensions are so great. It's just civilian defined pensions have degraded so much in the past 30 years in number and quality compared to military pensions.  The eternal selling point of the military pension was you got it immediately on retirement.  That was great until you found out that thanks to decades of no COL adjustments military pay was chicken feed and 50-75% of that wasn't so great.  It's a lot juicier now after multiple patriotic COL adjustments and flat out raises.  But it's only a matter of time until inflation eats those away not to mention asinine attemps to make the military more like a corporation (i.e. IRAs and 401Ks to be paid out whenever some bean counter thinks you should retire). But that's a rant for another time and place. 

[clifp]

No one seems to be addressing the ANG/Reserve option. I acknowledge that I've sacrificed 10 years and only 10 years away from that magical pot of gold, but I'd still get credit for my time on AD, discounted health care and a small paycheck along with the freedom to not be tethered to the headaches of AD. While I know I'm on an early retirement forum, I'm not in as much of a rush as some of you seem to be. I want to establish some roots and pursue a job that I actually enjoy (i.e. teaching, counselor). Does anyone have any experience going from AD to Guard/Reserves?

I think going to Reserve/ANG is absolutely an option.  If you aren't familiar with Nord's blog http://the-military-guide.com/  and book on military retirement, I can't stress what an important resource it is. His wife, who I know choice that route (although IIRC she was much close like 16 years or something before switching.)   Nord is currently in Spain visiting his daughter, but on his way home to Hawaii. He can provide a really good answer to your question.

[davisgang90]

I'm active duty Navy, closing in on 25 years next month. 

At the end of the day, you and your wife have to make the decision that is right for you.  I agree with other posters that it is worth sitting down together and looking at what you give up if you don't do 20 (you give up a lot).  The way the military retirement plan is structured it is an "all or nothing" option except for affiliating with the reserves.  Given your savings rates, you and your wife could easily be looking at retiring fully in 10 years if you stay on active duty.

If you do get out, I recommend affiliation with the reserves or ANG.  Also, the GI bill is a fantastic benefit that can provide you with the degree you will need to either teach or practice in the mental health field.

[turning_hapanese]

Thanks for all the food for thought everyone, you've given me a lot to think about. I've done a bunch of research already and it sounds like it could go 50/50 either way. Some people get out and love it, while others regret it almost immediately. As someone mentioned, it's ultimately a decision my wife and I will have to make and we'll both have to commit to something and roll with it. Thanks again!

[dhlogic]

Nothing else to add, except that I'm military and will be separating after 10+ years. I hear a lot of how that is a bad idea too, many times from people who have never served. The Military Compensation and Retirement Modernization Commission shows that 83% of all enlisted personal don't make it to 20 years. I guess there's a lot of mistakes being made.

I didn't take this job for the money and I'm certainly not staying for it. I don't need it. Sometimes you need to go a different direction in life. Money isn't everything and I have no problem taking a job that results in a 50+% pay cut and losing all those benefits if I'm doing something better with my life.

[DollarBill]

I just retired from the AF this past Nov after 23 years. I for one spent many unhappy years in the AF but stuck it out and I'm soooo glad I did because life is so sweet now :). Just think about how much you would need to save to equal that Military pension. I was that guy that said I'm out in 4 yrs then turned into 8 and I'm out then it was f-it I'm in. Looking back over all those unhappy years I really can't tell you what made me sooo unhappy except that I was someone who refused to conform to conformity. When I finally gave in to just except it, life was so much easier...lol.

I think the AF is a great place to raise a family but you need to keep a positive attitude. How many people get to say they lived in Japan? Use this opportunity to go explore on the weekends, use some leave and get away form the base. I think the both of you should really think about what is making you unhappy. Wanting to stay in one place? Missing out on all the buying opportunities at Walmart? Buying a home? (Overrated) Friends? (I met most of my best friends overseas) Family? (Have them come visit or take some leave). I did make the mistake of not taking enough leave. I sold 30 days once and when I left the AF I had over 70 days saved up. Please don't do this you need time off to unwind.

If I had to do it all over again I would study my ass off and make rank (first time each round) and I would try to stay overseas as mush as possible. Because the time goes fast and you know that you will be leaving at some point to start a new adventure. Plus it's not very likely that you would be deployed form an overseas location. It stinks being stuck in the States at one spot for a long lime. At the very least get a long tour/short tour out of the way so "if" you do stay in then it's very unlikely that you would be picked up for a short tour toward your 20 yr mark.

I would highly suggest cross training or at least try to get other positions outside of your career field. Once I stepped outside of my field the rain stopped and the clouds parted.

[2527]

I want to add one thing to what I said earlier. A lot of people go through life thinking, "I'll be happy when I....

...Get out of the military
...Retire early
...Get married
...Get divorced
...Have a million dollars
...Move to a different neighborhood
...Switch jobs

Really, happiness is an inside job. 

[RunHappy]

I want to add one thing to what I said earlier. A lot of people go through life thinking, "I'll be happy when I....

...Get out of the military
...Retire early
...Get married
...Get divorced
...Have a million dollars
...Move to a different neighborhood
...Switch jobs

Really, happiness is an inside job.

+1

[EricL]

BTW, The reserves are a good place to network for jobs.  When I got out the first time there were many guys in the National Guard whose full-time jobs were with the state or federal government.  They were plenty willing to provide inside info and referrals when you proved your dependability after a year or so.

[ChrisLansing]

I did 12 years total, active/reserve.   

If it's putting a strain on the marriage I don't see how AFR/ANG will help anything.   The Reserves are almost as active as active duty these days.   Back when the reserves were only called out for WW3 it was a pretty good deal, now it's much harder on marriage and the civilian job.   

[ascZend]

I was on Active Duty for nearly 4 years. 

For a time I had considered reenlistment.  The very day that I decided to see a retention officer, I was informed that a new MILPER (military personnel) message had just went into effect that morning which classified my MOS (military occupational specialty) as being "overstrength" and thus I was ineligible for reenlistment, unless I reclassified to a new occupational specialty.  As I recall there were only maybe a dozen options available for my rank and time in service, the majority of which I would've been medically disqualified for due to issues stemming from my service (the Army considered me to be medically non-deployable), and the rest were jobs that I had no interest in (cook, transportation specialist, supply specialist, etc.) 

Had I visited the retention officer the day before, I could've re-enlisted for my current job and maybe I'd still be serving to this day, but it obviously wasn't meant to be.  Before I separated from active duty I spoke to a National Guard/Reservist recruiter, but due to the medical issues I would've been permanently assigned to a "special unit" for service members with similar issues, which would've meant dealing with much of the same discriminatory measures as I had experienced on active duty.  I had no interest in dealing with any of that ever again, so I passed.

Frankly, it was one the best decisions I've ever made.  I have absolutely no regrets in choosing to separate from service.  The V.A. takes care of me, I have a good job with good pay, and most importantly: the happiness, privacy, and freedoms that I enjoy now is simply unparalleled, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

[grsing]

I left active duty (Navy submariner) after a bit over 6 years. I stayed in the Reserves, been there for almost 2 now. It has its pros and cons, but I plan on sticking out the remaining 12 years. I wouldn't do it only for the retirement, but, based on my math, the reserve retirement will cover about half my expenses for life. That's a pretty nice safety cushion. The healthcare is good ($200 for the level of coverage of TRS is a bargain), and it's nice to keep contacts and such.

I had a slightly rough transition, job-wise, due to it happening at the same time as the beginning of sequestration, government shutdown, etc. (I was planning to be a government contractor, and wound up in something completely different after a job offer was rescinded when the contract went away). It's a good arugment for having an emergency fund; it wasn't a big deal to be out of work for a month and a half, and gave me time to find a good job, rather than just the first one that came up.

Financially, you just have to do the math. Be realistic about what you can make in the civilian world, and absolutely consider the changes in taxes and benefits. I don't regret getting out, although I'd absolutely be making more if I'd stayed in (roughly 25% more after the tax changes are taken into account). That said, actually being able to see my wife and have my employer value my time is lovely.

[LiveLean]

I have never served in the military, but I've watched a number of same-age military friends retire in their early-mid 40s in recent years. They look at what I do -- self-employed, en route to FIRE by 50 -- and are insanely jealous. To which I say, "I'll trade you my net worth right now for that pension and lifelong health coverage." Plus, several of them have transitioned smoothly from military pilots to civilian pilots.

I know these are sweeping generalizations -- After all, I've never been under fire or moved anywhere I didn't want to. Plus, putting up with an occasional horrible boss early in my career is nothing compared to taking orders -- but if I was halfway to military retirement, I'd put my head down and go for 20.

[SaintM]

I have never served in the military, but I've watched a number of same-age military friends retire in their early-mid 40s in recent years. They look at what I do -- self-employed, en route to FIRE by 50 -- and are insanely jealous. To which I say, "I'll trade you my net worth right now for that pension and lifelong health coverage." Plus, several of them have transitioned smoothly from military pilots to civilian pilots.

I have yet to meet a service member that retired for good in his or her early to mid 40s.  Many could, but a paycheck dependency prevents them from doing so.

[Hank Sinatra]

I have yet to meet a service member that retired for good in his or her early to mid 40s.  Many could, but a paycheck dependency prevents them from doing so.

Hi. I'm one.  Not a Major or a Colonel. Just an E-7 which is  middle o' the pack, with  just the minimum 20 yrs. You're right. Almost no one actually retires at that age. Enlisteds  don't have anywhere near enough money coming in to make a go of it especially with teenagers at home and maybe about to start college. Officers (O4's and up)  have plenty and could do it quite easily but are usually paycheck dependent for lifestyle issues and/or ego gratification. When you define your life and worth as a person based on your occupation or paygrade these things are hard
to shake.

[EricL]

I have yet to meet a service member that retired for good in his or her early to mid 40s.  Many could, but a paycheck dependency prevents them from doing so.

Hi. I'm one.  Not a Major or a Colonel. Just an E-7 which is  middle o' the pack, with  just the minimum 20 yrs. You're right. Almost no one actually retires at that age. Enlisteds  don't have anywhere near enough money coming in to make a go of it especially with teenagers at home and maybe about to start college. Officers (O4's and up)  have plenty and could do it quite easily but are usually paycheck dependent for lifestyle issues and/or ego gratification. When you define your life and worth as a person based on your occupation or paygrade these things are hard
to shake.

+1

[2ndTimer]

I would strongly encourage you to share this thread with your wife.  It will stimulate all kinds of communication and you may wind up with a much clearer idea of what you both want and what your goals for the two of you as a unit are.

[SaintM]

I have yet to meet a service member that retired for good in his or her early to mid 40s.  Many could, but a paycheck dependency prevents them from doing so.

Hi. I'm one.  Not a Major or a Colonel. Just an E-7 which is  middle o' the pack, with  just the minimum 20 yrs. You're right. Almost no one actually retires at that age. Enlisteds  don't have anywhere near enough money coming in to make a go of it especially with teenagers at home and maybe about to start college. Officers (O4's and up)  have plenty and could do it quite easily but are usually paycheck dependent for lifestyle issues and/or ego gratification. When you define your life and worth as a person based on your occupation or paygrade these things are hard
to shake.

Nice. I was reminded of another this afternoon. He was an O-5 that retired about two years ago. How could I forget...I occupy his old office, twice removed though.

[Hank Sinatra]

Nice. I was reminded of another this afternoon. He was an O-5 that retired about two years ago. How could I forget...I occupy his old office, twice removed though.
[/quote]

An O5 is primo. Could do it standing on his head. Not sure what the pension would be these days but probably north of $5,000.00 per month

[Lkxe]

Nice. I was reminded of another this afternoon. He was an O-5 that retired about two years ago. How could I forget...I occupy his old office, twice removed though.

[/i]

An O5 is primo. Could do it standing on his head. Not sure what the pension would be these days but probably north of $5,000.00 per month
[/quote]

Actually, just slightly south-a couple hundred (two) yes that's where we stand but retirement depends on board results and next assignment's appeal. Still likes the job and willing to keep on keeping on. Though the retirement and stash(  well, if I pilfer the 529's) are at about equal for proceeds.

[SaintM]

Nice. I was reminded of another this afternoon. He was an O-5 that retired about two years ago. How could I forget...I occupy his old office, twice removed though.

[/i]

An O5 is primo. Could do it standing on his head. Not sure what the pension would be these days but probably north of $5,000.00 per month
[/quote]

If I could retire today (I wish) as an O-5 at 20 years, I'd be looking at about $4100/mo. Have 6 years to go.

[DollarBill]

I have yet to meet a service member that retired for good in his or her early to mid 40s.  Many could, but a paycheck dependency prevents them from doing so.

Hi. I'm one.  Not a Major or a Colonel. Just an E-7 which is  middle o' the pack, with  just the minimum 20 yrs. You're right. Almost no one actually retires at that age. Enlisteds  don't have anywhere near enough money coming in to make a go of it especially with teenagers at home and maybe about to start college. Officers (O4's and up)  have plenty and could do it quite easily but are usually paycheck dependent for lifestyle issues and/or ego gratification. When you define your life and worth as a person based on your occupation or paygrade these things are hard
to shake.

I agree it would be a hard run at it with a spouse and kid unless the spouse worked and they invested over the years. Even if they didn't save it would take most of the pressure off after punching out.

I was single 18 yrs of my career (and no kids); saved a good amount; paid off my house and retired debt free after 22 yrs (E-7). I'm 40 and I have no plans looking for another job in the near future. I have enough to stay permanently retired but may dabble with some side gigs...just for fun. I can't imagine how much better it would be if I had a wife with the same goals...we could rule the world ;).

Even if I met my future wife I think we could work together so she could be retired with me within a couple of years.