Get Smart With Money (Netflix Documentary)

[clarkfan1979]

Link to Netflix

https://www.netflix.com/title/81312877

Youtube link on needs, love, like and want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkGb79aOYc

I absolutely love the advice of focusing on needs & love, mostly because that is what I do. Because "loves" are typically more expensive, the average consumer goes for "wants" and "likes" because they are cheaper. The problem then becomes those costs prevent them from achieving "loves"

This past summer, I spent two months (May 14 - July 14) at my vacation/rental home on Kauai with my wife and son. We loved it. We had some visitors and they loved it too.

Now I'm back at my day job and I'm bringing my own lunch to work and driving a $2500 car. The two extremes don't seem to co-exist, but they do. If I upgrade my car or my lunch options, I might not have enough money to do the summer trip to Kauai. Knowing that I traded a fancy sandwich for a two month trip to Kauai would psychologically kill me.   

[newco]

That's good that this is going to be included in a netflix show, but as you sort of hinted at, this is common sense when living below your means.  The problem stems from a majority (I assume) of the population live above their means.  If you can buy affordable housing, vehicles, and food, you are setting yourself up for success.  That along with practicing self discipline. 

[mathlete]

That's good that this is going to be included in a netflix show, but as you sort of hinted at, this is common sense when living below your means.  The problem stems from a majority (I assume) of the population live above their means.  If you can buy affordable housing, vehicles, and food, you are setting yourself up for success.  That along with practicing self discipline.

I think the "Love over Want" dynamic is something most people miss. A majority of people know they need to pay their mortgage and buy food. And while the average retirement savings rate is too low (5%-9% into 401k), people at least have some vague idea that they should save for that.

I think it's incredibly easy to put impulse buys that don't really move the happiness meter above saving for longer term stuff that really makes a difference, like travel, education, more flexible work arrangements, etc.

[thesis]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I think a lot of people have a scarcity mindset where they feel wasteful buying one really expensive thing that they would love because how much it could afford otherwise. I'm not saying that's the best way to see it, only that it feels very unnatural to focus strongly on saving money in other areas, only to let loose in one.

The hard part is knowing the difference between what you love and what you like. I think I would love to fly first class internationally someday, but the price is hard to swallow for something that might only be marginally better than the standard economy class. I'd have to pay first to find out. Some people think they would love to own a gigantic house, but they may come to hate it when they realize how much maintenance and cleaning it requires.

If you KNOW what you love and it happens to be expensive, I think that makes things a lot easier, though.

I wonder if some of that boils down to experiences vs. things. Some people could easily afford to fly out to see family more often and would love to, but are being held back by their excessive purchases. But that's the thing, if you have the capacity to buy what you love and are otherwise being wasteful with money, that's where you have the most room for improvement, but if you don't have that capacity at all, you're kind of SOL. And if you've never had the capacity at all, how can you be sure it's really what you love?

[mcneally]

It will be interesting to see if the show accurately reflects how nuanced the conversation needs to be. I need housing. As a single person, this need could be satisfied by a run down studio apartment, renting a room from a stranger, my own apartment or my own single family house (and the cost of that house can vary by a lot). I must buy groceries, but how much an individual spends on groceries could be anywhere from $100 to $500+/ mo. I would love to on a guided hike/bike/whitewater raft trip in Central America- but I'd also love to go backpacking in Colorado with a couple friends for a week.

I kind of feel like most of us here are "experts" at this thing that we think should be obvious to everyone- how to spend (or save) your money in a way that brings the most satisfaction, but it's far from obvious to most people.

[2sk22]

I saw that Paula Pant is one of the financial advisors in this series! Thats probably a good sign that this will be interesting.

[clarkfan1979]

I saw that Paula Pant is one of the financial advisors in this series! Thats probably a good sign that this will be interesting.

Watch it again. There is a total of four coaches. Anyone else that looks familiar?

[2sk22]

I saw that Paula Pant is one of the financial advisors in this series! Thats probably a good sign that this will be interesting.

Watch it again. There is a total of four coaches. Anyone else that looks familiar?

How did I miss it - I just saw Mr Money Mustache himself :-)

[solon]

Anyone know a way to watch this without subscribing to Netflix?

[calimom]

Thanks for the recommendation @clarkfan1979! Just put it on my watchlist, looking forward. "Post financial broke syndrome" LOL!

[mathlete]

If we consider this the third of a trilogy of frugality docs, with the first two being Minimalism, and Playing with FIRE, I think this one has far and away, the most promise.

[clarkfan1979]

If we consider this the third of a trilogy of frugality docs, with the first two being Minimalism, and Playing with FIRE, I think this one has far and away, the most promise.

My expectations are higher for this one as well. I'm really hoping that it doesn't suck.

[Ron Scott]

For the most part I do not want what I do not have.

I’m retired and spend far less than what the financial gurus would have me spend.

I do not budget.

I do not bother myself with flowery perspectives and philosophies regarding money.

I don’t think my way is better or worse than others.


For the most part…

[Kris]

Anyone know a way to watch this without subscribing to Netflix?

Ask a friend who is a subscriber for their login credentials?

[fuzzy math]

Is this currently out? MMM just posted the trailer and I was thinking it might not be released yet. I just canceled netflix and am trying to hold out on immediately resubscribing!

[lhamo]

I think it debuts on Tuesday, 9/6.

[Turkey Leg]

Is this currently out? MMM just posted the trailer and I was thinking it might not be released yet. I just canceled netflix and am trying to hold out on immediately resubscribing!

It's out this coming Tuesday (which would be 6-Sep). There's a trailer on Netflix that I watched. Too lazy to search YouTube for a trailer. :)

[stoaX]

Is this currently out? MMM just posted the trailer and I was thinking it might not be released yet. I just canceled netflix and am trying to hold out on immediately resubscribing!

I don't want to subscribe to Netflix just to see this one show, but it is tempting. Perhaps discussions of it on this forum will be good enough for me. 

[wageslave23]

Is this currently out? MMM just posted the trailer and I was thinking it might not be released yet. I just canceled netflix and am trying to hold out on immediately resubscribing!

I don't want to subscribe to Netflix just to see this one show, but it is tempting. Perhaps discussions of it on this forum will be good enough for me.

I'm thinking you will probably be able to boil it down to a few catchy financial ideas. Seems like most youtube, netflix, podcasts, etc are that way. Come up with one or two key points and then stretch it over 30-90 minutes of examples and repetition.

[markbrynn]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I think a lot of people have a scarcity mindset where they feel wasteful buying one really expensive thing that they would love because how much it could afford otherwise. I'm not saying that's the best way to see it, only that it feels very unnatural to focus strongly on saving money in other areas, only to let loose in one.

The hard part is knowing the difference between what you love and what you like. I think I would love to fly first class internationally someday, but the price is hard to swallow for something that might only be marginally better than the standard economy class. I'd have to pay first to find out. Some people think they would love to own a gigantic house, but they may come to hate it when they realize how much maintenance and cleaning it requires.

If you KNOW what you love and it happens to be expensive, I think that makes things a lot easier, though.

I wonder if some of that boils down to experiences vs. things. Some people could easily afford to fly out to see family more often and would love to, but are being held back by their excessive purchases. But that's the thing, if you have the capacity to buy what you love and are otherwise being wasteful with money, that's where you have the most room for improvement, but if you don't have that capacity at all, you're kind of SOL. And if you've never had the capacity at all, how can you be sure it's really what you love?

Just a note about the bolded text above, first class is not worth it. Don't get me wrong, it's great: comfortable, good food, good drinks, easy to sleep well, but it only lasts for however many hours you fly (6, 8, 12 hours). The difference in price for economy vs. first class is so much that I just didn't feel it was worth it* for so short a time (and to be honest, not a truly special experience, you're still in a plane watch the same movies and eating better, but not special, food). Those thousands of dollars can pay for something a lot better than a nicer experience when flying. Just my two cents.

* I never paid for first class. Either with miles that were otherwise expiring or company paid (a total of about 2 or 3 time).

[RetiredAt63]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I think a lot of people have a scarcity mindset where they feel wasteful buying one really expensive thing that they would love because how much it could afford otherwise. I'm not saying that's the best way to see it, only that it feels very unnatural to focus strongly on saving money in other areas, only to let loose in one.

The hard part is knowing the difference between what you love and what you like. I think I would love to fly first class internationally someday, but the price is hard to swallow for something that might only be marginally better than the standard economy class. I'd have to pay first to find out. Some people think they would love to own a gigantic house, but they may come to hate it when they realize how much maintenance and cleaning it requires.

If you KNOW what you love and it happens to be expensive, I think that makes things a lot easier, though.

I wonder if some of that boils down to experiences vs. things. Some people could easily afford to fly out to see family more often and would love to, but are being held back by their excessive purchases. But that's the thing, if you have the capacity to buy what you love and are otherwise being wasteful with money, that's where you have the most room for improvement, but if you don't have that capacity at all, you're kind of SOL. And if you've never had the capacity at all, how can you be sure it's really what you love?

Just a note about the bolded text above, first class is not worth it. Don't get me wrong, it's great: comfortable, good food, good drinks, easy to sleep well, but it only lasts for however many hours you fly (6, 8, 12 hours). The difference in price for economy vs. first class is so much that I just didn't feel it was worth it* for so short a time (and to be honest, not a truly special experience, you're still in a plane watch the same movies and eating better, but not special, food). Those thousands of dollars can pay for something a lot better than a nicer experience when flying. Just my two cents.

* I never paid for first class. Either with miles that were otherwise expiring or company paid (a total of about 2 or 3 time).

I flew Economy Plus from Toronto to Auckland and I was so in pain (hips and knees) when we landed.  And that was with a 5 hour stopover in Vancouver.  If I do that again without longer layovers I will seriously consider first class.  I was totally physically useless my first few days in NZ.

So I guess it depends on how long the flight is.  I have flown Toronto/Palm Springs in Economy with no issues.  But overseas is so much harder on the body.

[lifeisshort123]

I do not do well with flying.  My entire body is swollen usually for days.  Jet lag is a major problem for me too. 

First class definitely helps, as do the times that I have footrests, and wearing super big/comfortable shoes, etc.

That said, I just try to limit my flying whenever possible.

[clarkfan1979]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I think a lot of people have a scarcity mindset where they feel wasteful buying one really expensive thing that they would love because how much it could afford otherwise. I'm not saying that's the best way to see it, only that it feels very unnatural to focus strongly on saving money in other areas, only to let loose in one.

The hard part is knowing the difference between what you love and what you like. I think I would love to fly first class internationally someday, but the price is hard to swallow for something that might only be marginally better than the standard economy class. I'd have to pay first to find out. Some people think they would love to own a gigantic house, but they may come to hate it when they realize how much maintenance and cleaning it requires.

If you KNOW what you love and it happens to be expensive, I think that makes things a lot easier, though.

I wonder if some of that boils down to experiences vs. things. Some people could easily afford to fly out to see family more often and would love to, but are being held back by their excessive purchases. But that's the thing, if you have the capacity to buy what you love and are otherwise being wasteful with money, that's where you have the most room for improvement, but if you don't have that capacity at all, you're kind of SOL. And if you've never had the capacity at all, how can you be sure it's really what you love?

Just a note about the bolded text above, first class is not worth it. Don't get me wrong, it's great: comfortable, good food, good drinks, easy to sleep well, but it only lasts for however many hours you fly (6, 8, 12 hours). The difference in price for economy vs. first class is so much that I just didn't feel it was worth it* for so short a time (and to be honest, not a truly special experience, you're still in a plane watch the same movies and eating better, but not special, food). Those thousands of dollars can pay for something a lot better than a nicer experience when flying. Just my two cents.

* I never paid for first class. Either with miles that were otherwise expiring or company paid (a total of about 2 or 3 time).

I have flown first class on Alaska Airlines from Seattle to Lihue, HI about 5 times. At one point in time I had MVP status and was upgraded to first class if they had available seats. The flight time in the air is 5.5 to 6.5 hours. You are seated on the plane for another 45-60 minutes for take-off and landing. In my opinion, I'm in much better shape when I get off the plane from first class. When talking about shorter flights (less than 2 hours of flying), I don't think I would get much value from first class. 

[2sk22]

This is an evergreen topic of discussion but it needs a bit of clarification:

1. The term "first class" as used for domestic travel within the US is absolutely not worth it as even the longest flight is barely about 5 hours.

2. For international travel on the other hand "business class" gets you a flat bed on which you can sleep in great comfort (see attached photo of a typical business class seat on British Airways). When I was flying to Asia several times a year to look after elderly ailing parents, I always flew in business class. Business class typically costs about 3 times economy fare but on a 14 hour non-stop flight, you come to really value the ability to stretch out and sleep.

The way I look at it is this: if there is some exciting fun adventure waiting for me when I land, I am happy to take regular economy. But I consider having to deal with difficult family situations as work, not pleasure. So I used to treat myself to business class.

[Fresh Bread]

Back on topic...

I just watched the movie. I liked how there were four very different situations but in the end it was just a tiny taster of financial literacy. I liked the fairly strong message of stop spending money on crap you don't need.  But I don't feel like anyone needing investing help would get enough from it to give them the confidence. It didn't really explain how early retirement is possible to someone who doesn't already know the shocking simple math etc.  But it might be quite useful to someone getting out of debt to give them a few tools.

[Moonwaves]

It just popped up on German Netflix today so I'll probably take a look at the weekend. I assume the target audience is not people who would, for example, be long-standing members of this forum. The baby steps you need to start with for the ubiquitous man on the street tend to be very, very baby. I'm interested to see how I find it.

[bill1827]

The Guardian reviewer didn't think much of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/06/get-smart-with-money-review-martin-lewis-could-teach-these-financial-experts-a-thing-or-two

Martin Lewis is a UK financial adviser who started a very successful financial web site https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/.

[clarkfan1979]

Back on topic...

I just watched the movie. I liked how there were four very different situations but in the end it was just a tiny taster of financial literacy. I liked the fairly strong message of stop spending money on crap you don't need.  But I don't feel like anyone needing investing help would get enough from it to give them the confidence. It didn't really explain how early retirement is possible to someone who doesn't already know the shocking simple math etc.  But it might be quite useful to someone getting out of debt to give them a few tools.

I just watched the movie. Overall, I liked it. Four different stories with four different coaches. The female artist story was probably the most inspiring for me. She was only able to pursue her passion/side hustle after she figured out a way to save some money from her W-2.

MMM was helping a family that scaled their income from 70K to 150K to 300K in 2 years and they are going to retire in 5 years. I loved the content, but I wish their income was closer to 120K and they had a 10 year plan because I think that would resonate more with the average family. They sold their house and bought a smaller house with an extra unit for airbnb.com. I wish they could have focused more on their new lower housing expense. It was stated that the old house was $3000/month. However, there was no mention of the cost of the new house. If the new house payment is $2000/month with $2000/income from airbnb.com, it is very possible for their new housing cost to be zero cost. I wish that was shared.

[2sk22]

I just watched the movie. Overall, I liked it. Four different stories with four different coaches. The female artist story was probably the most inspiring for me. She was only able to pursue her passion/side hustle after she figured out a way to save some money from her W-2.

MMM was helping a family that scaled their income from 70K to 150K to 300K in 2 years and they are going to retire in 5 years. I loved the content, but I wish their income was closer to 120K and they had a 10 year plan because I think that would resonate more with the average family. They sold their house and bought a smaller house with an extra unit for airbnb.com. I wish they could have focused more on their new lower housing expense. It was stated that the old house was $3000/month. However, there was no mention of the cost of the new house. If the new house payment is $2000/month with $2000/income from airbnb.com, it is very possible for their new housing cost to be zero cost. I wish that was shared.

I am most of the way through watching the movie. The one thing that stands out is how much the four subjects just completely avoid thinking about money. In a general sense the coaches have a fairly straight forward task - just get them to think about money in terms of inflows and outflows. It also helps that the subjects are receptive to being coached!

[Fresh Bread]

I just watched the movie. Overall, I liked it. Four different stories with four different coaches. The female artist story was probably the most inspiring for me. She was only able to pursue her passion/side hustle after she figured out a way to save some money from her W-2.

MMM was helping a family that scaled their income from 70K to 150K to 300K in 2 years and they are going to retire in 5 years. I loved the content, but I wish their income was closer to 120K and they had a 10 year plan because I think that would resonate more with the average family. They sold their house and bought a smaller house with an extra unit for airbnb.com. I wish they could have focused more on their new lower housing expense. It was stated that the old house was $3000/month. However, there was no mention of the cost of the new house. If the new house payment is $2000/month with $2000/income from airbnb.com, it is very possible for their new housing cost to be zero cost. I wish that was shared.

I am most of the way through watching the movie. The one thing that stands out is how much the four subjects just completely avoid thinking about money. In a general sense the coaches have a fairly straight forward task - just get them to think about money in terms of inflows and outflows. It also helps that the subjects are receptive to being coached!

Yes I think the researchers / casting team definitely found the right people.

The review @bill1827 posted above seems pretty accurate. I agree that the best story was the artist who got to art.

There's little more than the basics in terms of pointers. But if you are ready for more than the basics there wasn't enough detail. The movie might have value in just showing people that money is nothing to be scared of or ignored. Just sort of pique their interest to find out more, look up those experts, sort out their own finances.

[lifeisshort123]

This will most likely be a Wednesday night viewing activity.  I’m looking forward to seeing.

[iluvzbeach]

I enjoyed it. Clearly too basic for those of us who are FI or have made great strides toward FI, but I think the show will be helpful in getting people to begin thinking about how they spend their money. Really love that this is on a platform like Netflix. 

[uniwelder]

I enjoyed it. Clearly too basic for those of us who are FI or have made great strides toward FI, but I think the show will be helpful in getting people to begin thinking about how they spend their money. Really love that this is on a platform like Netflix.

+1. This sums up my feelings.

[LibrarIan]

I've been on the frugality train for a while now and my wife has mostly just been along for the ride. She's rarely ever looked at anything on this site and sometimes I feel like she just tolerates it when I talk money. So I was very happy that she suggested we watch this last night.

From her perspective, I think the documentary felt very HGTVish. Some things felt staged and it was rather convenient that Teez just so happened to make the team right on time. But that aside, I think it opened her eyes to what I've been banging the drum about all this time. She was blown away by how much some people spend on certain things. Based on our discussion afterwards, I think she's more on board now.

To me, the makers glossed over a lot of important money matters. I think it was interesting to see four different coaches and their angles on money though. IMO, some advice sucked like asking the artist to consider looking into NFTs. Some advice was good like having a family downsize their home because it was too costly. Some stories felt relatable to most Americans in that we had a couple people struggling with student loan and credit card debt. Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

Anyway, it was a great impetus to review my finances and ensure I'm being as efficient as possible. This is something I'll do this month.

[clarkfan1979]

I've been on the frugality train for a while now and my wife has mostly just been along for the ride. She's rarely ever looked at anything on this site and sometimes I feel like she just tolerates it when I talk money. So I was very happy that she suggested we watch this last night.

From her perspective, I think the documentary felt very HGTVish. Some things felt staged and it was rather convenient that Teez just so happened to make the team right on time. But that aside, I think it opened her eyes to what I've been banging the drum about all this time. She was blown away by how much some people spend on certain things. Based on our discussion afterwards, I think she's more on board now.

To me, the makers glossed over a lot of important money matters. I think it was interesting to see four different coaches and their angles on money though. IMO, some advice sucked like asking the artist to consider looking into NFTs. Some advice was good like having a family downsize their home because it was too costly. Some stories felt relatable to most Americans in that we had a couple people struggling with student loan and credit card debt. Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

Anyway, it was a great impetus to review my finances and ensure I'm being as efficient as possible. This is something I'll do this month.

I think you are correct about the NFL player. It's not relatable. I think the purpose was to show that even NFL players have money problems.

I love to talk money on this forum and listen/watch money related podcasts. Beyond that, I don't really talk about it much in my real life. My son is 5, so maybe when he gets older I will try to give him advice and talk about it more.

In my opinion, people who struggle to pay their bills talk about money much more often. It dominates their thoughts and behaviors because if they make a mistake there are large consequences. My wife and I have enough money for everything that we want. We created a plan and we are pretty much on autopilot. There really isn't much to discuss.

My retired parents talk and complain about money constantly and it's annoying. They accuse the other person of overspending and won't ever come to a mutual agreement on a budget. It's been that way forever. They want us to join in and complain about money but we don't because we don't have anything to complain about.     

[the_gastropod]

IMO, some advice sucked like asking the artist to consider looking into NFTs

Oh god. I can't believe Paula Pant is still huckstering crypto junk. All her advice just seemed kind of similarly sleazy bumper sticker logic like "There's a limit to how much you can cut, but there's no limit to how much you can make!!!".

[DadJokes]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

[treefly]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

[DadJokes]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

Wow, I did miss that.

[brandon1827]

I watched the first half-hour or so yesterday after work. I remember watching Teez Tabor play (against my favorite team) in college. The trope of millionaire athletes from humble beginnings making it big, then blowing it all is interesting to me. I've seen it a hundred times with varying outcomes. I think it's rare, but perhaps becoming more common, for them to realize that the money faucet won't run forever and to be concerned enough about it to reach out for help. I think his focus is in the right place...looking to secure a future for his wife and daughter. He's young enough that he could still end up getting some decent paydays from the NFL...so maybe he will have learned enough from this process to invest wisely and spend thoughtfully.

I had less sympathy for the lady that paid off all of her credit cards (can't remember if that was a consolidation loan?) only to max them out again. She seemed to me to be more of the mindset that this was something that happened to her...not something that she willingly and actively did herself. Her husband is working overtime regularly just to make ends meet and she's just been spending. It made me eyeroll hard when she said that she'd tried every sort of budget there was and nothing worked...while continuing to spend on her credit cards and put herself deeper into debt.

[seattlecyclone]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

A quick internet search tells me the practice squad salary is not paid during the offseason (or any weeks you're not actively practicing with the team, for that matter). It's really a week-by-week thing where you can get cut any time. It's therefore more of a $200k/year gig (at best) than a $500k one. Nobody makes it to FIRE on an NFL practice squad. Within a couple years you'll either prove yourself worthy of a real roster spot or you'll be forced out of the league and need to start a different career.

The phenomenon of pro athletes blowing all the money is real. The average NFL rookie will play in the league for about three years. The ones who stay in for a decade will be set for life if they have even a tiny bit of financial sense. In the much more typical case of someone who makes the league minimum and washes out after a year or two, the NFL will not be a road to riches. If they're FIRE-minded from the start they'll be partway to a lean FIRE after one year, maybe getting close after two. If they're not, well...it's pretty easy to blow much of an NFL rookie salary on a nice car and some fancy vacations, and if an injury cuts your career short you have to start all over after becoming hedonically adapted to the high life.

[clarkfan1979]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

The NFL season is pro-rated into an 18-week season, so he was making 180K/year at 10K/week.

The minimum salary for someone on an NFL roster with 2 years experience in 2021 was 895K/year, which is 49.7K/week.

[Psychstache]

The phenomenon of pro athletes blowing all the money is real. The average NFL rookie will play in the league for about three years. The ones who stay in for a decade will be set for life if they have even a tiny bit of financial sense. In the much more typical case of someone who makes the league minimum and washes out after a year or two, the NFL will not be a road to riches. If they're FIRE-minded from the start they'll be partway to a lean FIRE after one year, maybe getting close after two. If they're not, well...it's pretty easy to blow much of an NFL rookie salary on a nice car and some fancy vacations, and if an injury cuts your career short you have to start all over after becoming hedonically adapted to the high life.

The ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "Broke" does a pretty good job of diving into this issue. Spoiler Alert: it is a multilayered problem with issues coming from all sides.

[clarkfan1979]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

A quick internet search tells me the practice squad salary is not paid during the offseason (or any weeks you're not actively practicing with the team, for that matter). It's really a week-by-week thing where you can get cut any time. It's therefore more of a $200k/year gig (at best) than a $500k one. Nobody makes it to FIRE on an NFL practice squad. Within a couple years you'll either prove yourself worthy of a real roster spot or you'll be forced out of the league and need to start a different career.

The phenomenon of pro athletes blowing all the money is real. The average NFL rookie will play in the league for about three years. The ones who stay in for a decade will be set for life if they have even a tiny bit of financial sense. In the much more typical case of someone who makes the league minimum and washes out after a year or two, the NFL will not be a road to riches. If they're FIRE-minded from the start they'll be partway to a lean FIRE after one year, maybe getting close after two. If they're not, well...it's pretty easy to blow much of an NFL rookie salary on a nice car and some fancy vacations, and if an injury cuts your career short you have to start all over after becoming hedonically adapted to the high life.

It's pretty interesting that MLB players typically do not go broke. The average position player, makes their major league debut at 24.4 years old. For pitchers it's 25.3 years old. I think the average number of minor league seasons before their debut is around 6. While different players get different levels of money as a signing bonus, everyone makes the same amount as a minor leaguer, which isn't much. It's a long season and $500/week.

[ChpBstrd]

I thought it was definitely aimed at the "newbie" crowd who struggles with blowing their entire paychecks and comprehending things like stock indices or CC interest. Yet the following breadcrumbs offer areas for further exploration for the "advanced" MMMer:

1) Tiffany Aliche's concept of Needs, Loves, Likes, and Wants: This is an interesting framework I'm going to explore further. The idea is we routinely sacrifice our needs and loves for the sake of short term dopamine hits from likes and wants. Thus our homes end up full of plastic garbage that we "like" and "want" but for these things we sacrifice our "needs" for financial stability and our "loves" of what we could do with our lives were we not on a consumerism treadmill. I find this paradigm highly motivational. It explains so much.

2) The cinematography is full of passive-aggressive silent facepunches to laugh at, like when the person who struggles with credit card temptations buys a latte at Target and brags about how they only went off-list on a couple of things, or the zoom-ins on the going-broke NFL player's bling and Range Rover, or the look on MMM's face when his couple is proud they got their spending down to a mere $100k/year. The director seems to get our sense of face punching humor at some level. It's too obvious to have happened by chance.

3) The documentary exposes us to a wide range of scenarios, and offers itself as a lesson in how to talk to friends, spouses, or loved ones in each situation. I think we sometimes get super technical and analytical on this forum and become the professors who couldn't successfully teach a classroom of first graders.
       a) The broke high-salary / high-spender
       b) The emotion-driven impulse spender
       c) The "trapped in my dead end job" creative type who isn't into analysis
       d) The family who sees spending money as the solution to most problems

4) A chance to reconsider some of the fundamental personal finance concepts we "advanced" mustachians think are too basic for us, such as automation of separate accounts for bills, spending, and savings, elimination of credit cards, budget spreadsheets, cooking, etc. I know I've slipped away from these fundamentals under the assumption that I don't need them anymore, and habit will suffice. But I bet I could squeeze out a couple thousand dollars worth of value by picking these habits back up.

[yakamashii]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

A quick internet search tells me the practice squad salary is not paid during the offseason (or any weeks you're not actively practicing with the team, for that matter). It's really a week-by-week thing where you can get cut any time. It's therefore more of a $200k/year gig (at best) than a $500k one. Nobody makes it to FIRE on an NFL practice squad. Within a couple years you'll either prove yourself worthy of a real roster spot or you'll be forced out of the league and need to start a different career.

The phenomenon of pro athletes blowing all the money is real. The average NFL rookie will play in the league for about three years. The ones who stay in for a decade will be set for life if they have even a tiny bit of financial sense. In the much more typical case of someone who makes the league minimum and washes out after a year or two, the NFL will not be a road to riches. If they're FIRE-minded from the start they'll be partway to a lean FIRE after one year, maybe getting close after two. If they're not, well...it's pretty easy to blow much of an NFL rookie salary on a nice car and some fancy vacations, and if an injury cuts your career short you have to start all over after becoming hedonically adapted to the high life.

It's pretty interesting that MLB players typically do not go broke. The average position player, makes their major league debut at 24.4 years old. For pitchers it's 25.3 years old. I think the average number of minor league seasons before their debut is around 6. While different players get different levels of money as a signing bonus, everyone makes the same amount as a minor leaguer, which isn't much. It's a long season and $500/week.

I don't have the stats on this (I don't know if they're out there), but I imagine you'd get similar numbers to the other major sports if you expand the scope to include everyone who is drafted/signed and doesn't ever make it to the Majors. The road from amateur to big leaguer is longer in baseball than any other sport, and the minor league population is much larger (616 players were drafted in 2022, compared to 262 for the NFL and 58 for the NBA). The 109th pick in this year's MLB Draft got a $3.7 million signing bonus.* The 109th-best basketball amateur is already working some other job.

For the majority of prospects, these signing bonuses are their best/only payday. Include them in the consideration and I'm sure just as many blow through it as in other sports.

Then there's demographics. Other sports are probably catching up, but US players generally come from affluent backgrounds because baseball's not a cheap sport to play. Americans aren't the ones who grew up hitting rolled-up socks with sticks and catching them with gloves made of cardboard anymore.

Plus, MLB has long-term, guaranteed contracts, so once you make it and are good enough to warrant a multi-year deal, you're going to get paid even if you get hurt.

I think all this can explain why MLB players tend not to go broke.

*To be fair, the draft doesn't exactly go in order due to signability concerns; teams are reluctant to use a high pick on a high school player likely to go to college instead of signing, meaning the 109th pick is not necessarily the 109th-best prospect/worthy of the 109th-best bonus. For perspective, the 101st pick got a $925,000 bonus.

[johndoe]

I probably got more chuckles out of it than anything else ... especially from the NJ lady in credit card debt.  I was surprised how fast she paid it off, did they say her income?  I could see some of the target audience complaining that all 4 cases were couples and income didn't seem to be a problem (Maybe the artist/chef were outliers there?)  The other part that made me chuckle was the line about "you know some relationships struggle because one person is more frugal than the other" ... I wondered if we were gonna go THERE,  but alas we jumped off that topic quickly.  I think that discussion would have helped folks.  I don't know everything about MMM but I was wanting more "face punches".  I get that this is an intro movie, but that family's budget getting DOWN to $10k didn't exactly seem like an achievement, he could've been portrayed as a LITTLE more critical of their spending.

[clarkfan1979]

Others were not relatable at all, like having a business where you can essentially conduct virtual sessions for $300k/yr or where you're sad that you "only" made the practice squad of one of the most elite sports teams in the world at $10k/week. Variety is good, but Teez's story in particular is so unrelatable that I don't know why it was included other than to make people feel better that even millionaire athletes have issues.

$10k/week is only $52k/year, which isn't exactly big bucks.

I think the point of the documentary is to get a little of everything, so that everyone has someone they can relate to. An athlete who blew through his initial contract might be relatable to anyone who received a large windfall.

I hope that the documentary gave people enough information to look up MMM and the others, where they will hopefully be able to build from there.

You missed the extra zero, $520,000/year is pretty good. But there are athletes who really do blow through everything, and plenty of people who are on the downswing income-wise, so I could see where it would be a good case study. Essentially personifying the windfall situation.

A quick internet search tells me the practice squad salary is not paid during the offseason (or any weeks you're not actively practicing with the team, for that matter). It's really a week-by-week thing where you can get cut any time. It's therefore more of a $200k/year gig (at best) than a $500k one. Nobody makes it to FIRE on an NFL practice squad. Within a couple years you'll either prove yourself worthy of a real roster spot or you'll be forced out of the league and need to start a different career.

The phenomenon of pro athletes blowing all the money is real. The average NFL rookie will play in the league for about three years. The ones who stay in for a decade will be set for life if they have even a tiny bit of financial sense. In the much more typical case of someone who makes the league minimum and washes out after a year or two, the NFL will not be a road to riches. If they're FIRE-minded from the start they'll be partway to a lean FIRE after one year, maybe getting close after two. If they're not, well...it's pretty easy to blow much of an NFL rookie salary on a nice car and some fancy vacations, and if an injury cuts your career short you have to start all over after becoming hedonically adapted to the high life.

It's pretty interesting that MLB players typically do not go broke. The average position player, makes their major league debut at 24.4 years old. For pitchers it's 25.3 years old. I think the average number of minor league seasons before their debut is around 6. While different players get different levels of money as a signing bonus, everyone makes the same amount as a minor leaguer, which isn't much. It's a long season and $500/week.

I don't have the stats on this (I don't know if they're out there), but I imagine you'd get similar numbers to the other major sports if you expand the scope to include everyone who is drafted/signed and doesn't ever make it to the Majors. The road from amateur to big leaguer is longer in baseball than any other sport, and the minor league population is much larger (616 players were drafted in 2022, compared to 262 for the NFL and 58 for the NBA). The 109th pick in this year's MLB Draft got a $3.7 million signing bonus.* The 109th-best basketball amateur is already working some other job.

For the majority of prospects, these signing bonuses are their best/only payday. Include them in the consideration and I'm sure just as many blow through it as in other sports.

Then there's demographics. Other sports are probably catching up, but US players generally come from affluent backgrounds because baseball's not a cheap sport to play. Americans aren't the ones who grew up hitting rolled-up socks with sticks and catching them with gloves made of cardboard anymore.

Plus, MLB has long-term, guaranteed contracts, so once you make it and are good enough to warrant a multi-year deal, you're going to get paid even if you get hurt.

I think all this can explain why MLB players tend not to go broke.

*To be fair, the draft doesn't exactly go in order due to signability concerns; teams are reluctant to use a high pick on a high school player likely to go to college instead of signing, meaning the 109th pick is not necessarily the 109th-best prospect/worthy of the 109th-best bonus. For perspective, the 101st pick got a $925,000 bonus.

The MLB draft has gotten really complicated after they introduced the slot value system, which I think first started in 2012.

When a player gets drafted into the MLB, they know it's going to take 3-6 years to make it to the majors and their weekly checks are $500. I think it's pretty easy for them to realize that they are not getting any additional fast money anytime soon.

After the NFL draft, they play immediately and get the big checks, but the money is not guaranteed. It's true that the big stars are starting to get more guaranteed money. However, 90% of the NFL players contracts are not guaranteed. If they get hurt and get released, the checks stop immediately.

[mathlete]

Watched it. Didn't love it for the reason why I dislike a lot of modern documentaries. Why do these documentaries all insist on adding,

1.) Vlogging segments
2.) Instagram/TikTok style portrait mode video
3.) Text message/Twitter pop ups on screen

I sit down to watch a feature documentary on my big TV. Why are we trying to simulate the horrible experience of being on your phone?

All that is superficial though. My biggest issue were the coaches. Everyone except for MMM seemed inauthentic. And MMM had the easiest job.  A family grossing $300K with $156K of annual spend. Not that bad. That couple seemed a little insincere anyway. Like, they didn't need help, and they knew they didn't need help.

So you had three insincere coaches and one insincere case study. Shoulda been MMM coaching the three sincere people. But the other coaches have stronger personalities so I get why they did it the way they did.

I think these kinds of docs just aren't for me. I thought the Netflix series, "Money Explained" was quite good though. Less reliant on personal stories with a three act structure and more history/information dense.

Clearly I'm not the target audience of any of this since I already know all there is to know about personal finance. But certain things just make me cringe. Like Ro$$ doing the "When it goes down, not if." explanation to Teez near the end of the doc. That should have been covered upfront. And I'm sure it was, and it's just editing that makes it come at the end. But it irked me.

[calimom]

I watched this with my daughters. We liked the arty young woman in Austin who was working hard to overcome her struggles, and doing her best to create interesting work for herself. Older DD could relate. It was fun to see MMM, and he was true to his brand encouraging the white, high-earning couple with small kids to optimize groceries, DIY, downsize to a property with a STR and so forth. They were likable and curiously the only couple out of all 4 profiles to work together. How come we didn't see much of emotional-spender CC debt's partner? Or the partner of the NFL player (who was very interesting); or much of the partner of Austin creative other than in the final segment when they were cooking together.

Overall it seemed like a decent primer to avoid debt/get out of debt/spend lower than your means/create the life you want, targeted to the masses. Some simple math is shown on things like what $60K of pleasure spend could mean invested in the S&P, for example.