General rant/advice/motivation

[a.g]

Hi all, this is my first post here so a bit about me. I'm 28 yrs old living in California, and am nowhere near FI. A few weeks ago I stumbled upon MMM and fell in love (I stayed up all night reading post after post; I was so tired at work the next day!!).

Before finding this blog I'd already made some major lifestyle changes in order to more quickly improve my financial situation. 10 months ago my living situation changed, and I couldn't see spending $600 a month or more to live with roommates, so I took the plunge, bought a van to live in and have been putting what was my rent towards debt. I can shower at work, and it's pretty easy to prepare clean meals (salads and such). I only make $34k a year so this situation has already helped me out a lot. In the past 10 months, I have completely paid off $6500 on a CC, and about $1200 in student loans. I still have $5k on a car loan to buy the van (I know, kinda dumb, and this was pre-mustachianism, but I figured a 1.9% car loan was better than the 10.9% APR on my credit card) and $29k in SL. What has me down is this: I still feel so far away!! Whenever I read through the forum, it seems like everyone on here is making $50k plus (and many people much more than this) which isn't something I can ever envision myself making. I'm even considering grad school which would add another $25k on top of my existing debt, without substantially increasing my wages (I can't even envision another year at my current job, I want a more fulfilling field).

Somedays it feels like no matter how much I cut down on spending, I'll never earn enough to get my 'stache to a level I can exit the rat race. I guess I don't really have a question through all this. I've been feeling both elation at finding a community of like minded folks, and bummed out by feeling so far behind the 8 ball. It really keeps me going to read through all the people's different stories on here, hopefully soon I'll feel like a MMM success..

[lizzigee]

Hi a.g.  You've made massive progress , so don't get depressed comparing yourself against some of the high income earners on here. It's not a competition, it's about improving your life.  You've paid off a very large percentage of your debt already, so don't lose the faith now.

You say you're considering taking on more debt, but that this won't increase your income.  Is there any way to change your situation without the costs of study?  There are lots of different options possible, including further study in an existing field, to retraining completely, to moving to a different part of the county/world.  Any of these could either increase your income or happiness.  In the meanwhile, don't forget to enjoy the now. Sure some days are crappy, but try to enjoy the good bits.  It;s a rare day where there's not something, no matter how tiny, to nourish your spirit. (sorry if I'm being too Pollyanna, not meaning to drive you nuts, but I'm a natural optimist.) Best wishes!

[gooki]

Congrats on the progress so far. Just remember slow and steady wins the race.

[lifejoy]

Hey, you LIVE IN A VAN! Give yourself some credit! That's my dream, and I am too afraid to just go for it.

[Joel]

Why do you think you can't pursue an education that will make you more than 34k per year?

[a.g]

Thanks for the encouragement you guys (and gals)!!

@lizzigee: It can be hard not to compare yourself to others, but you're right, there is certainly a lot to be thankful for daily. I've been thinking a lot lately about re-training in other areas or my options with further study. I'm kinda torn; one part of me just wants to earn my money and save up quick to get to early retirement, while the other wants to find something fulfilling to do and just stick with it, finding enjoyment from my work. Still waiting to see which decision wins out

@gooki: Yup, isn't that the truth. On my good days I'm amazed to look back and see how much progress can be made in less than even a year.

@libraryjoy: Van living had/has been a dream of mine since high school. It's both amazing and freedom giving, while being constraining and sometimes a drag. Overall though I have to say if your interested in it, just go for it!! What have you got to lose? If your not liking it after a short while you can always move back into a more traditional place. Not sure what's holding you back (it's different for everyone) but my concerns focused around the conveniences of life. Just like with the mustachian lifestyle, there are some small 'sacrifices' if you want to call them that, but they're nothing compared to what you gain.

@joel: Well, I certainly can pursue a higher paying education, but the areas that I'm interested in (conservation or environmental management) would either require a lot more undergrad work (environmental science) or similarly low pay (conservation work through just doing grad school).

[kms]

The question is: what level of education are we talking about here? Since you're considering grad school I'm assuming you went to college and have a degree of some sort. Is there any way to improve your income situation? Have you considered moving some place else in order to make more money? Budgeting is always a double-edged sword, income vs. expenses. You've already successfully minimized your spending, congratulations! Now it's time to see if you can improve your income.

[arebelspy]

Somedays it feels like no matter how much I cut down on spending, I'll never earn enough to get my 'stache to a level I can exit the rat race.

FI doesn't care if you earn 10k or 1MM.  It's all about the percent you save.

Here's the cleanest explanation I've seen (though MMM and ERE have good ones as well):
http://freeat33.com/the-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Keep plugging away, work on increasing the income where you can, and keep saving.

Soon your stache will be big enough to generate much more money than you earn.

Also ditto everyone above on the van living badassity.  The wife and I are considering getting a conversion van next summer and traveling arund Central America for a few months, and/or have been considering getting one after FIRE and living in it and slow traveling (ala http://sprinterlife.com).

[Zikoris]

I make roughly the same as you, similar age, and am set to retire in 10-13 years. It's not  how much you earn, it's how much you choose to spend vs save.

[Cinder]

@joel: Well, I certainly can pursue a higher paying education, but the areas that I'm interested in (conservation or environmental management) would either require a lot more undergrad work (environmental science) or similarly low pay (conservation work through just doing grad school).

Could you possibly 'flip-flop' your life order a bit?  Take a job doing something different to help build up your 'stache, and THEN go on to do the underpaid conservation style work if that's what you would love to do.  I've heard a lot of good things about the gap in skilled laborers in the trades.  Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, etc..   I don't know specifics for your area or what part of CA you are in, but if you are interested in diving at all,  I know that my uncle made a ton of money doing underwater welding.  In my eventual plans for FI (Still trying to get the wife onboard), I'd love to become an underwater welder, but I only know about recreational diving, and I live smack dab in the middle of PA!

Sometimes you need to be weird and change the 'order' of how you do things.  Find a new approach to the problem.  If you don't like the rat race you are currently in, pick a different race? 

[TrulyStashin]

MMM has a post on here somewhere wherein he says "compare yourself ONLY to the person you were yesterday."

That's it.   Not to me or IP Daly or ANYONE else.   Your only "competitor" is the person you saw in the mirror yesterday.

This philosophy is just as liberating as frugality.  Keep going and good luck.

[Joet]

if you can already live in a van... down by the river I'd say you're a lot closer to FI than most.

[Rebecca Stapler]

a.g., you've gotta read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/education/edlife/ken-ilgunas-lives-in-a-van-while-a-graduate-student-at-duke-university.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I'm a believer in doing what you love, and your natural interest in it will help you land a job you love -- because you're interested in it, you'll learn about it in your free time and volunteer for the people who will be willing to put in a good word for you. If it's a difference between getting an advanced degree or working as a seasonal employee at Sequoia for a few summers, you will come out ahead with whatever plan you can sustain without taking on additional debt. Maybe you could be a seasonal employee and go to school in the winter?

Both my spouse and I have advanced degrees, and we earn more than $34k/year, but we have debt up to our eyeballs. My spouse decided to pursue an interest in a completely unrelated field, and landed a job based on work done as a hobbyist -- and earns the same amount as before! I worked for low wages for organizations I wanted to work for and eventually landed a permanent job that can pay the bills. Pursue what you love, while managing your expenses, and it will fall into place (that's not to say that you don't put effort into it, just that it will happen if you're actively pursuing your interests). Life is long, and if you're managing your expenses this well now, you can keep moving onwards and upwards!

[Oltmanh]

MMM has a post on here somewhere wherein he says "compare yourself ONLY to the person you were yesterday."

Great quote, hadn't seen it before, thanks.

[a.g]

Wow, all really great posts you guys. I especially appreciated the quote on only comparing yourself to yesterdays self. That's a keeper.

You all have had really great career advice as well. I haven't made my decision, but I am leaning towards going after my passion. Even if it does push back FI by a few years, it's starting to seem like it might be worth it. Kind of like if your job is something you'd do for free, it's not really work right. Having a useful skill (such as underwater welding) is really appealing to me as well so we'll see.

Van life isn't something I plan to do forever (I'm sure my girlfriend will be excited when we can actually share a home), so I'll have to increase my earnings someday (not just feel safe saving a certain percentage of my current income). I think like many young people, I didn't take school (or loans!!) seriously enough, and didn't realize that while a degree is nice, it's experience and connections that help the most. I've learned a few 'real world' things these past few years, so all complaints aside I'm sure soon my savings/earnings equation will be a bit more balanced.

[arebelspy]

Having a useful skill (such as underwater welding)

Sorry, I had to chuckle at this.  I know, it is, but say that out loud.  :D

[slf]

MMM has a post on here somewhere wherein he says "compare yourself ONLY to the person you were yesterday."

Does anyone know which post this is?   It's hard not to compare your success with others.  It's something I struggle with.  This would be probably be interesting to read.  I've read most of the posts, but I don't remember this one.  I may have missed it.  Or just forgotten and need reminded :)

[arebelspy]

MMM has a post on here somewhere wherein he says "compare yourself ONLY to the person you were yesterday."

Does anyone know which post this is?   It's hard not to compare your success with others.  It's something I struggle with.  This would be probably be interesting to read.  I've read most of the posts, but I don't remember this one.  I may have missed it.  Or just forgotten and need reminded :)

I looked for it when that post was made earlier, and couldn't find anything.  I think TS was paraphrasing, at best.

[Nords]

Having a useful skill (such as underwater welding)

Sorry, I had to chuckle at this.  I know, it is, but say that out loud.  :D

My cousin has that degree, and he used to joke that he went to college on the beach for four years.

He's cleanin' it up in the oil & gas industry.

[kkbmustang]

MMM has a post on here somewhere wherein he says "compare yourself ONLY to the person you were yesterday."

Does anyone know which post this is?   It's hard not to compare your success with others.  It's something I struggle with.  This would be probably be interesting to read.  I've read most of the posts, but I don't remember this one.  I may have missed it.  Or just forgotten and need reminded :)

I looked for it when that post was made earlier, and couldn't find anything.  I think TS was paraphrasing, at best.

For me it was underwater basket weaving so this made me laugh too.

To the OP- don't get down. I'd say your level if badassity is quite high. If you want to earn more can you find a side gig or PT job on the weekends?

[a.g]

Having a useful skill (such as underwater welding)

Sorry, I had to chuckle at this.  I know, it is, but say that out loud.  :D

Haha youre right. It's funny, cause when I wrote that 'underwater basket weaving' popped into my head, but I didn't make the connection that this too was the same type of activity (albeit very lucrative). There is something attractive to me in having skills that have merit on their own (like carpentry, mechanics etc).

And to kkbmustang, I can find part time work and am considering it, but like everything else in life there are things to give up if I go that route. I just love my time off, and it seems hard enough to get things done with one job (last semester I took a couple community college courses for fun) but it's certainly on my radar

[msilenus]

Don't sweat that car loan.  You're paying $100/year in interest to save yourself $7200 in rent.  You can think of the difference as a 7100% return on investment.  More, actually, since you're clearly using that $7100/yr to pay down high-interest debt.  Your credit card alone was costing you another $709 per year.  I bet your total financial benefit realized from that interest is north of 8000%.

Well played, sir.

[a.g]

Well played, sir.

lol, thank ya. Yeah, I'm a bit more proud than when I wrote this thread cause I realized today that it's actually only been 8.5 months since my project began, not even 10 months! Sometimes it doesn't seem like my goal is approaching fast enough, but keeping it in perspective is the thing to do.

[arebelspy]

Well played, sir.

lol, thank ya. Yeah, I'm a bit more proud than when I wrote this thread cause I realized today that it's actually only been 8.5 months since my project began, not even 10 months! Sometimes it doesn't seem like my goal is approaching fast enough, but keeping it in perspective is the thing to do.

Absolutely.  Get all our finances perfect, set your goal on autopilot and then enjoy life and work on improving other areas of your life besides finances.  It'll come faster than you think.

[Sebastian]

a.g. .. welcome!

You are doing great so far! I also share you views about people on this forum. I graduated from college 3 years ago.. and thus far having my big old "college degree" my first year out of college I think I made like 24K, 2nd year 28K, last year 33K. So I'm almost up to where you are in pay now, and like a tard I bought a brand new car last year :(...  It drives me crazy how little I make but it's getting better slowly but surely. (I'm in sales so that's why my pay has been bumping up).

Anyways I wanted to post to give you some words of encouragement. In this day in age I think people in my age group 26 (maybe your age as well) expect things way tooooo fast. Look at it this way.. If I went outside today and planted a flower. Should I really expect to go back tomorrow and already see the flower in full bloom? No absolutely not!

The challenge is that, at least for me, I grew up with video games and especially games like World of Warcraft where you level up and gain a lot of cool new things only after playing for a few hours.

Well when we go back to the real world. Things take a bit longer than a few hours, and that's one of the big things I've come to realize after reading and fixing my finances for the past few months. Sure I don't make 50-60-70K and I'm not able to save up 20K a year. BUT I planted the seed and slowly but surely it is starting to grow.

Already I have a 401K and Roth started up banking a big portion of my check. I've cut down my food bill by like 300/month. It's insane and I'm starting to see the rewards of being disciplined.

After reading what you wrote it looks like you've already made huge strides yourself! Man if I didn't have a GF I'd pull what you did and just live out of a van. I pay 550/month for rent :(...

Anyways, you are doing really well! Just keep getting after it and pace yourself. Set up longer term goals and realize that it takes longer than a few hours to see some of the benefits. Then 5,10,15 years from now just think of how much better off you will be!

*also a side note. I wouldn't consider going back to school at all! You will end up spending 2 years spending roughly 50K to get a masters in something. Then what? It'll just be like the bachelors.. once you graduate nothing will change. The only thing that is different is that you have a little piece of paper that opens some doors. SCREW THAT! Instead, take 2 years to develop or search for a passionate career. You'll be 50K less in debt, probably find a better job or maybe you'll even start your own. Forget college unless you want to become a scientist engineer or doctor... and really at the end of the day unless you are really passionate about those professions you'll just end up a slave to those careers and hate life even more!

[arebelspy]

The challenge is that, at least for me, I grew up with video games and especially games like World of Warcraft where you level up and gain a lot of cool new things only after playing for a few hours.

Well when we go back to the real world. Things take a bit longer than a few hours, and that's one of the big things I've come to realize after reading and fixing my finances for the past few months.

That's all in your perspective.  In other words, it's all in how you set your levels.

FI may be level 100 (or 70, or 80, for you WOW players).  That may take a decade to achieve.  But going from level 1 to 2 may only take a few hours.  Cut the cable bill, downgrade cell phone plans.  BOOM, level up!

Yeah, the later levels take longer (as with any decent RPG), but early levels you can make a lot of progress quickly.  :)

[2527]

I think you are doing great.  In the long run, the younger you are when you come to this website, the more you will get out of it.  Keep on trucking!

[a.g]

Thanks for the positive words SethBahookey and Jeff L!! I really appreciated this part:

Well when we go back to the real world. Things take a bit longer than a few hours, and that's one of the big things I've come to realize after reading and fixing my finances for the past few months. Sure I don't make 50-60-70K and I'm not able to save up 20K a year. BUT I planted the seed and slowly but surely it is starting to grow.

Already I have a 401K and Roth started up banking a big portion of my check. I've cut down my food bill by like 300/month. It's insane and I'm starting to see the rewards of being disciplined.

and have to congradulate you on cutting down your food bill by 300/month (wow!!) and setting up a 401k/roth. Smart move. I have to say my GF has been more than just supportive, she's made it a whole lot easier (always good for the occasional shower/meal prep/laundry mat), so if you don't live with yours now, at least consider bringing it up to her and see how she feels about it. My girlfriend loved the idea of me freeing up money to get rid of my credit card, yours might be equally supportive. Just a thought :)

@ Jeff L, I totally agree. This website is kinda like compounding interest: the sooner you get going, the more you have!