Author Topic: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday  (Read 3888 times)

BOP Mustache

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From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« on: June 11, 2024, 12:44:55 PM »
I’m 35, male, married with two daughters aged 3 & 5. Live in New Zealand.

From the outside things look great. Have a debt free home worth $650k. Have a superannuation with 250k in it and other index funds with 50k in them that we add to each month. I have a good middle management job that supports the family to live a frugal yet very comfortable life. The pantry is always full, the power bill is always paid and there is a bit left over for an annual camping holiday each summer and the occasional meal out with my wife and or/wife and kids.

My health is good enough, exercise regularly and eat healthy. I long for nothing material wise as home is small but modern, Toyota modern safe cars in the driveway.

Ive begun learning piano doing lessons weekly which is a new hobby I’m enjoying. My marriage is great she’s the love of my life.

So then why am I sad and moping around most days? It feels like Groundhog Day most days. Get up, do some exercise at home, go to work, come home to kids, bath, dinner, bed. Read a book, practice piano. Do our stretches, do chores, then bed. I long to have more time during the day to pursue sports and hobbies, I long for a life that’s got more to it. 

I just attended and spoke the eulogy of my grandmother who died at 94, she worked basic manual jobs most her life, lived in a basic home and raised my father and aunties. Hardly anything of note. I feel like I want to do more in my life.


We’ve built up a solid financial foundation so going into business and risking it all isn’t something my wife and I want to do. It feels like it’s just rinse and repeat for the next 15-20 years until the stash is big enough to wave paid employment behind.

It’s feeling like a real slog with no end in sight. I bought a lottery ticket this week for the 2nd time in my life and dreamt all week of the life I’d live if I won it and when I didn’t win I was in a state of depression for a day or two.

How do I get out of this funk and change my mindset? The majority of the world would kill for the life I’m living right now. I feel like an ungrateful person.

Metalcat

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2024, 12:53:09 PM »
Well...you have to remember that the majority of folks are doing psychologically all that well, so just because you have what the majority think they need to be happy doesn't mean they're right.

Having financial security and stability don't make for a happy life, they just remove a lot of barriers to having a happy life.

A bunch of us did the Yale course on the Science of Well Being, and it might give you some insight into what's missing.

For me, I need A LOT of high quality human connection in order to be consistently happy.

Rob_bob

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2024, 12:57:35 PM »
Not really sure what to say.  It sounds like you have a full day but want more varied activities/hobbies.  Maybe what you need is some type of social volunteer work to help other people?

I'm single and retired, every day is groundhogs day LOL!

GilesMM

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2024, 01:10:04 PM »
It's called MidLife Crisis and it is very common. You will survive.  Many guys get a red convertible.  Some turn to the bottle.  Others get a girlfriend.  Piano is an odd choice, but stick with it. Maybe join a pub band!

SunnyDays

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2024, 01:36:26 PM »
So what IS the life you would live if you did win the lottery?  What are you dreaming of that you’re not doing now?  How can you manage to fit your dreams into your current life in some way, shape or form?  You need something in your life that you find adventurous or exciting, whatever that may be.  Time to brainstorm.

mspym

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2024, 01:49:01 PM »
Sounds like the base level needs are humming along but maybe there aren’t enough peak experiences to look forward to or to remember.  They tend to be the things that give some shape and form to your experience of time. Having something more immediate to plan for, look forward to and strive towards - not just a 15-yr goal - can give you focus. So you could talk to your wife about coming up with a shared short-term goal you both want and work out a plan to get there.

The other possibility is how much social interaction do you get outside of home and work? Do both of you have regular time with friends without it being tied to the children? Again, something to work through with your wife to make sure you are keeping alive the other parts of yourselves.

RedmondStash

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2024, 02:25:26 PM »
Well...you have to remember that the majority of folks are doing psychologically all that well, so just because you have what the majority think they need to be happy doesn't mean they're right.

Having financial security and stability don't make for a happy life, they just remove a lot of barriers to having a happy life.

A bunch of us did the Yale course on the Science of Well Being, and it might give you some insight into what's missing.

For me, I need A LOT of high quality human connection in order to be consistently happy.

I saw this post go by a few months back but didn't sign up then. I've signed up now, because now is now.

Thanks for reminding me about this.

Metalcat

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2024, 02:33:34 PM »
Well...you have to remember that the majority of folks are doing psychologically all that well, so just because you have what the majority think they need to be happy doesn't mean they're right.

Having financial security and stability don't make for a happy life, they just remove a lot of barriers to having a happy life.

A bunch of us did the Yale course on the Science of Well Being, and it might give you some insight into what's missing.

For me, I need A LOT of high quality human connection in order to be consistently happy.

I saw this post go by a few months back but didn't sign up then. I've signed up now, because now is now.

Thanks for reminding me about this.

It's really a great resource for grasping the mechanics of happiness.

In my work I do a lot of happiness myth busting and this course have me awesome ways to explain these things.

Sandi_k

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2024, 02:52:47 PM »
We hit this around age 35 - and decided that we needed something to look forward to for US, as a lot of our life revolved around what we *should* do. Mainly for work, bosses, family, elders.

So we began a tradition of a weeklong vacation at anniversary time each year. And 15 years later, it's been an AMAZING choice. No regrets at all about spending the money and accumulating the experiences.

FallenTimber

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2024, 07:20:39 AM »
I’ve found that when you’re in a place like this, feeling like you need to make drastic changes, win the lottery, quit your job and travel the world… what can actually help is small doses of the things you crave. It may surprise you how far a little can go.

If you’re craving some excitement and adventure, pick up the book “Microadventures” by Alastair Humphreys. It’s built around the 9-5 lifestyle.

I’d also suggest mixing up your routine with your family as well. Skip the bath, the chores, and the stretching sometimes. Put your family in the car and drive somewhere. Have a picnic dinner on the top of a mountain or overlooking the ocean or on a forest trail. Let your daughters stay up late and look at the stars.

One more thought: is there a day each week or each month that can strictly be yours? And likewise for your wife? My day is Tuesday — I have from 6am - 6pm to do anything I can dream up. My wife has Thursday. As parents of 4 and 6 year olds ourselves, it’s critical to carve out time for yourself too.

Phenix

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2024, 07:49:40 AM »
I am still working my way out of the Groundhog Day stage of my life. At my lowest, I felt like Peter Gibbons in Office Space; every new day was the worst day of my life.

My true passion is teaching, but I didn't pursue that career route because I didn't think it paid enough. To scratch that itch, a few years ago I started teaching online classes at a local community college. This coming Fall semester, I'm going to be teaching 4 sections (2 online & 2 in-person). I get so much enjoyment from watching students work hard and succeed. All of that to say, you don't have to completely pivot your life to find enjoyment. Sometimes it's just a couple evenings a week focused on something your passionate about.

Laura33

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2024, 07:57:03 AM »
You're in the middle of the suck right now.  Even when you want all of the things that you have -- decent job that doesn't bore or kill you, lovely kids, wonderful wife -- the reality is that each of those things places a lot of demands on your time and attention, and put them all together, with no end in sight, and you can feel trapped and itchy and bored.  Even when you know you're on the right path, that path is a long one, and it requires maturity and continuous good choices, which again, can make it feel like a never-ending slog.

IME, there are two things you can do that can help your mindset.

The first one is to drop all of the "shoulds" from your life to free up time for things that are more meaningful to you.  Life tends to fill up with stuff that other people want/expect from you that are neither necessary nor particularly enjoyable.  Stop doing things just because everyone does them, or they're expected, or you think you should because XYZ.  This tends to be particularly problematic with kids, because there are just so many expectations.  But you know what?  I managed to raise two kids without once attending a PTA meeting or volunteering to be a "room mom" at school or "helping" them sell stuff for fundraisers or anything like that.  Your kids are probably young enough that you're not into all of that yet (and expectations in NZ may well be different), but the principle applies everywhere -- we also, for example, gave up on having flowers and pretty stuff in the yard and focused instead on just whacking the weeds when they get too high, because neither of us cared one whit about pretty gardening stuff.

Second, recognize that everything in your life is a choice, and if what you are doing isn't working any more, you have every ability to make a different choice.  There are two keys to this:  (1) acknowledge all of the available choices; and (2) focus on real choices, not magical ones, and consider the real-life downsides of each.

On (1):  you have many, many more choices than you think; you've just already decided that some of them are off the table.  For example, you could leave your family and go live as a single guy again, spend all of your spare time on your own hobbies and interests.  Of course you're not going to do that!  But:  why is that?  It's because you value your wife and kids far more than the freedom that you would have on your own.  So you have already decided that it is worth giving up your free time and money to have your family, even with the additional stresses and time constraints they bring with them.  Or you could quit your job and go live in a van, working scut jobs as you need to pay for basic expenses.  You're not going to do that, because you value supporting your family, you value the security of having savings in the bank, you like having the house you live in and decent, reliable cars, etc. etc.  The point is that all of these things are choices, and the reason you are where you are now is because you have made choices that are entirely aligned with your values and goals.  Sometimes it's really good to remind yourself of that; instead of resenting all the time you spend at work, you can instead reframe that as a choice you have made to provide for your family.

And that brings me to (2):  make sure that the various options you lay out are real ones.  "Winning the lottery" is not an option, because that's magical thinking and finger-crossing, not something that you can control.  OTOH, "find a different job that [pays more/gives more free time/provides more opportunity for growth/etc.]" is a valid choice that you can consider.  Maybe you want to make more money to speed up FIRE.  OK.  So you can look for a higher-paying job.  Of course, that will probably come with its own downsides -- more hours, longer commute, maybe requiring more schooling/training, etc.  Once you lay that all out, you can decide whether the tradeoffs are worth the additional money.

So why do all of this?  Because it is a reminder that you have the power here, and if you don't like where you are, you can change it.  The problem with feeling bored/stuck is that it paints you as the victim; you are just stuck in this situation and can't do anything else but slog through.  And that is 100% not true.  You have put yourself in this situation due to your own choices, and if those choices are no longer working for you, then you have both the power and the responsibility to make different ones.

Here's the real key:  you will very likely figure out that those big choices you have made -- staying married to your wife, being there for your kids, working your current job, keeping the house, etc. -- are all the best of the available choices.  There is real value in reminding yourself that you chose this and remembering why; it's giving yourself credit for living aligned with your values.  FWIW, I do this every time I get bored/antsy -- what is missing?  what would I need to do to get whatever it is I think I want?  Are those tradeoffs worth it?  That process anchors me in reality (getting my head out of the lottery clouds) and reminds me why I chose what I did.

If the big pieces of your life are still working for you, you can do a similar analysis on the little choices.  If life is just too much of the same thing, brainstorm ways to shake up the routine -- get a babysitter on a Tuesday night and go have a drink with your wife, or go for a family picnic instead of settling in front of the TV, or do something other than a family camping trip for vacation, or take multiple long weekends instead of one bigger trip, or try to learn a new recipe from some kind of cuisine you love but don't know how to make, or take an art class just because you know you'll be bad at it, or find some charity/community group that does things you value and offer your time to them, etc. etc. etc.  The options are limited only by your imagination.

FWIW:  it doesn't matter whether you thought your grandmother's life was small and unimpressive.  What matters is what she thought about her life.  My Granny passed a couple of years ago at around the same age.  She never held a job outside the house, spent her life raising her kids and grandkids.  But oh boy did she have a huge impact on her family.  I'm still not sure how she did it, but she absolutely doted on us, and yet we all also knew you didn't mess with Granny -- even though to this day I cannot remember her ever raising her voice.  When I'd get upset with my kids, I'd think "what would Granny do??"  She had significantly fewer options than any of us did, but she made the best choices she could, and she lived a life that brought her meaning and happiness, and in the process made a huge impact on the people around her.  I'm pretty sure she'd have chosen that above any kind of high-power, high-status corporate position.

leevs11

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2024, 09:30:24 AM »
I’m 35, male, married with two daughters aged 3 & 5. Live in New Zealand.

From the outside things look great. Have a debt free home worth $650k. Have a superannuation with 250k in it and other index funds with 50k in them that we add to each month. I have a good middle management job that supports the family to live a frugal yet very comfortable life. The pantry is always full, the power bill is always paid and there is a bit left over for an annual camping holiday each summer and the occasional meal out with my wife and or/wife and kids.

My health is good enough, exercise regularly and eat healthy. I long for nothing material wise as home is small but modern, Toyota modern safe cars in the driveway.

Ive begun learning piano doing lessons weekly which is a new hobby I’m enjoying. My marriage is great she’s the love of my life.

So then why am I sad and moping around most days? It feels like Groundhog Day most days. Get up, do some exercise at home, go to work, come home to kids, bath, dinner, bed. Read a book, practice piano. Do our stretches, do chores, then bed. I long to have more time during the day to pursue sports and hobbies, I long for a life that’s got more to it. 

I just attended and spoke the eulogy of my grandmother who died at 94, she worked basic manual jobs most her life, lived in a basic home and raised my father and aunties. Hardly anything of note. I feel like I want to do more in my life.


We’ve built up a solid financial foundation so going into business and risking it all isn’t something my wife and I want to do. It feels like it’s just rinse and repeat for the next 15-20 years until the stash is big enough to wave paid employment behind.

It’s feeling like a real slog with no end in sight. I bought a lottery ticket this week for the 2nd time in my life and dreamt all week of the life I’d live if I won it and when I didn’t win I was in a state of depression for a day or two.

How do I get out of this funk and change my mindset? The majority of the world would kill for the life I’m living right now. I feel like an ungrateful person.

I know how you feel, but have 3 pieces of advice. 1 is a little depressing, 2 are actual practical things you can do.

1. This is what it's like to be human. We seek out the best and easiest ways to get what we want. If we're good at it, we get there by mid life and then don't know what to do next. It feels a bit like a let down. Unfortunately this suffering is just a part of life. There are ways to make it feel a little better like going on trips, buying things, spending time with people we care about, getting in shape and enjoying nature. But these are all temporary and will leave you back to where you started. Accepting that this suffering & boredom are a part of life will make you feel better.

2. One practical thing is to go on a weekend backpacking trip. Have you been to Yosemite? Borrow or rent a backpack and camping gear. Go hike up a few miles past inspiration point. Camp for a night or two and stare at half dome & yosemite valley. This won't solve the problem, but it'll feel pretty damn good and you'll come back with some great pictures.

3. Second practical thing is to pick something really hard and do it. Run a marathon, bench your own weight or squat 2x your weight, remodel a bathroom, get a big promotion, paint a mural, play in a piano concert in front of people. Whatever it is pick something that you feel is out of your reach, but not impossible and figure out how to do it. Again this doesn't solve the issue, but it quiets down all the thoughts you're having about it and helps you focus on something that really matters in your life.

If you figure out something better let me know. There's no solution to this problem. You can either accept it or do things to ignore it. The only reason why you feel it more than others who are struggling in life financially & health wise is because you have that stuff figured out so you don't need to worry about it. People who are living paycheck to paycheck don't have time for existential thoughts. They are thinking about paying the rent. It's good to be in your spot, but recognize that no matter how well you do, you need these struggles to feel purpose in your life. My #2 & #3 ideas are just ways to create a struggle that you can overcome (and enjoy overcoming). This is better than being in your head all day.

GuitarStv

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2024, 10:35:40 AM »
I'm struck by a couple things in the initial post.

1. Total lack of mention of friends or community

Family is great.  They're important.  You need to make time for them.  But they're not enough on their own.  Don't practice piano at home alone, get out of the house and find some folks to jam with.  Don't do a workout at home, join up with a sports group of some sort and exercise with other people.  It's very easy for people today to slowly isolate themselves socially.  Humans are evolved to be social animals.  There are huge benefits to forcing yourself to be a little more social than is natural, especially when you're feeling stuck in a rut.  (I'm saying this as a natural introvert who doesn't ever jump at the chance to be around other people.)

2.  Wistful yearning to do something.

You want to do more with your life.  Cool.  What exactly do you want to do?  Figure that out (make a big list of everything that you can think of that sounds cool), and then do it.  You don't have to do it all at once.  You don't have to stick to any of it (a bunch of it will actually turn out to suck more than you thought and not be fun).  You will occasionally have to disrupt your happy and efficient schedule to make things happen, or spend money that will set you back a bit on your retirement path.  But it's worth it in the long run, and will lead to a life of fewer regrets.  Doing helps turn the monotonous grinding through the same thing for decades into making life a fun adventure.

spartana

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2024, 01:26:49 PM »
Why not just chuck it all, grab the family and go off on a grand adventure for a few years?  Sell the house and invest that money and live off a small amount and see where life takes you. Lots of people with young kids do that and often having that time off to discover themselves, find they either love it and find a new way of life, or hate it and are more content living the groundhog day life than previously.

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2024, 09:13:57 AM »
What Laura33 said (as usual ;)). But also, for me, this is a spiritual question. Not religion, but, why are you here? What if you’re here for a reason? Can you allow your feelings about the big questions that you don’t yet know the answers to? Death tends to bring this up. For me, meditation and spiritual seeking (retreats, etc) have changed my life in wondrous ways - not that you need to start big. But a couple good books can start you off. Martha Beck (more self-help-oriented but she’s awesome: “The Way of Integrity” or similar title is one), Ram Dass, whatever calls to you at the bookstore that looks like it might lead you in an interesting direction. Life has an optimizing force in it and if you start looking for the potential within your life, your view and your world starts shifting.

Dicey

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2024, 09:44:56 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.


Metalcat

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2024, 09:48:00 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.

I get that sentiment, but I'm so vehemently against living for the future when you have the resources to enjoy your life in the present.

That's not a YOLO, spend more now, fuck the future kind of statement. It's just that it sounds like OP is healthy, secure, and has literally nothing holding them back from living a rich and satisfying life by just figuring out what's missing, which several of us have pointed out could be human connection, which absolutely DOES NOT need to wait for FIRE.

A lot of folks don't know how to be happy.

Dicey

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2024, 10:08:14 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.

I get that sentiment, but I'm so vehemently against living for the future when you have the resources to enjoy your life in the present.

That's not a YOLO, spend more now, fuck the future kind of statement. It's just that it sounds like OP is healthy, secure, and has literally nothing holding them back from living a rich and satisfying life by just figuring out what's missing, which several of us have pointed out could be human connection, which absolutely DOES NOT need to wait for FIRE.

A lot of folks don't know how to be happy.
Sometimes I don't use enough words [eyeroll]. I had cancer at 21-22, which lit my passion for FI. Worse, it had a "propensity to reccur". I made damn sure to enjoy life along the way, because my future wasn't guaranteed (I'm not a snowflake - no one's is, but many lack awareness of that when young.) I hated the daily grind of a job, but had to keep working for health insurance. Way back when, I was without a roadmap and I felt like a total outlier weirdo freak. That's why I'm still here, twelve glorious years post-FIRE, lifting my lamp in hopes of making the journey a little bit easier for others on their journeys.

What I could have achieved with earlier support form a community like this, especially you, @Metalcat, is mind blowing. However, get there I did, and OP will too. Carpe diem. Find the joy in the midst of the grind. It's there if you look for it. Or, make it yourself. You can do it!

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2024, 10:06:13 PM »
A bunch of us did the Yale course on the Science of Well Being, and it might give you some insight into what's missing.

For me, I need A LOT of high quality human connection in order to be consistently happy.

Thanks for referencing that study. It highlighted the need/want for connection outside of work and family. Since posting I’ve joined the local gym again to get me out of the house and a bit of ‘me’ time to get away from the confines of the houses 4 walls and kids. We originally switched to working out at home to save money (being frugal and all) but I miss all those facets of the gym. Have also teed up a time with some guy mates for a small hike this weekend.

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2024, 10:08:12 PM »
So what IS the life you would live if you did win the lottery?  What are you dreaming of that you’re not doing now?  How can you manage to fit your dreams into your current life in some way, shape or form?  You need something in your life that you find adventurous or exciting, whatever that may be.  Time to brainstorm.

Would be time to join clubs, groups, pursue triathlon (did before kids came along) and more time to just enjoy things (beach, walk in park, vegetable gardening, etc). Looked up buying a fancy car last week but just don’t float my boat.

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2024, 10:09:54 PM »
Sounds like the base level needs are humming along but maybe there aren’t enough peak experiences to look forward to or to remember.  They tend to be the things that give some shape and form to your experience of time. Having something more immediate to plan for, look forward to and strive towards - not just a 15-yr goal - can give you focus. So you could talk to your wife about coming up with a shared short-term goal you both want and work out a plan to get there.

The other possibility is how much social interaction do you get outside of home and work? Do both of you have regular time with friends without it being tied to the children? Again, something to work through with your wife to make sure you are keeping alive the other parts of yourselves.

Yes think the social interaction is/was severely lacking have arranged a small hike with some guy friends I’ve not spent much time with recently.

Also looking at a night away with my wife away from the kids. Perhaps a non camping holiday to look forward to also.

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2024, 10:11:06 PM »
We hit this around age 35 - and decided that we needed something to look forward to for US, as a lot of our life revolved around what we *should* do. Mainly for work, bosses, family, elders.

So we began a tradition of a weeklong vacation at anniversary time each year. And 15 years later, it's been an AMAZING choice. No regrets at all about spending the money and accumulating the experiences.

Great idea my wife and I have birthdays two days apart so have decided we will do something a bit more each year rather than just a basic lunch or dinner out locally.

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2024, 10:13:36 PM »
I’ve found that when you’re in a place like this, feeling like you need to make drastic changes, win the lottery, quit your job and travel the world… what can actually help is small doses of the things you crave. It may surprise you how far a little can go.

If you’re craving some excitement and adventure, pick up the book “Microadventures” by Alastair Humphreys. It’s built around the 9-5 lifestyle.

I’d also suggest mixing up your routine with your family as well. Skip the bath, the chores, and the stretching sometimes. Put your family in the car and drive somewhere. Have a picnic dinner on the top of a mountain or overlooking the ocean or on a forest trail. Let your daughters stay up late and look at the stars.

One more thought: is there a day each week or each month that can strictly be yours? And likewise for your wife? My day is Tuesday — I have from 6am - 6pm to do anything I can dream up. My wife has Thursday. As parents of 4 and 6 year olds ourselves, it’s critical to carve out time for yourself too.

Great ideas thanks. We’ve decided to join back at the gym to get out of the house and social interaction. Also the odd overnight trip away from kids and we’ve arranged a weeknight each that my wife and I can go out away from the kids. A friend has a social sports league that looking to join in too.

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2024, 10:14:52 PM »
You're in the middle of the suck right now.  Even when you want all of the things that you have -- decent job that doesn't bore or kill you, lovely kids, wonderful wife -- the reality is that each of those things places a lot of demands on your time and attention, and put them all together, with no end in sight, and you can feel trapped and itchy and bored.  Even when you know you're on the right path, that path is a long one, and it requires maturity and continuous good choices, which again, can make it feel like a never-ending slog.

IME, there are two things you can do that can help your mindset.

The first one is to drop all of the "shoulds" from your life to free up time for things that are more meaningful to you.  Life tends to fill up with stuff that other people want/expect from you that are neither necessary nor particularly enjoyable.  Stop doing things just because everyone does them, or they're expected, or you think you should because XYZ.  This tends to be particularly problematic with kids, because there are just so many expectations.  But you know what?  I managed to raise two kids without once attending a PTA meeting or volunteering to be a "room mom" at school or "helping" them sell stuff for fundraisers or anything like that.  Your kids are probably young enough that you're not into all of that yet (and expectations in NZ may well be different), but the principle applies everywhere -- we also, for example, gave up on having flowers and pretty stuff in the yard and focused instead on just whacking the weeds when they get too high, because neither of us cared one whit about pretty gardening stuff.

Second, recognize that everything in your life is a choice, and if what you are doing isn't working any more, you have every ability to make a different choice.  There are two keys to this:  (1) acknowledge all of the available choices; and (2) focus on real choices, not magical ones, and consider the real-life downsides of each.

On (1):  you have many, many more choices than you think; you've just already decided that some of them are off the table.  For example, you could leave your family and go live as a single guy again, spend all of your spare time on your own hobbies and interests.  Of course you're not going to do that!  But:  why is that?  It's because you value your wife and kids far more than the freedom that you would have on your own.  So you have already decided that it is worth giving up your free time and money to have your family, even with the additional stresses and time constraints they bring with them.  Or you could quit your job and go live in a van, working scut jobs as you need to pay for basic expenses.  You're not going to do that, because you value supporting your family, you value the security of having savings in the bank, you like having the house you live in and decent, reliable cars, etc. etc.  The point is that all of these things are choices, and the reason you are where you are now is because you have made choices that are entirely aligned with your values and goals.  Sometimes it's really good to remind yourself of that; instead of resenting all the time you spend at work, you can instead reframe that as a choice you have made to provide for your family.

And that brings me to (2):  make sure that the various options you lay out are real ones.  "Winning the lottery" is not an option, because that's magical thinking and finger-crossing, not something that you can control.  OTOH, "find a different job that [pays more/gives more free time/provides more opportunity for growth/etc.]" is a valid choice that you can consider.  Maybe you want to make more money to speed up FIRE.  OK.  So you can look for a higher-paying job.  Of course, that will probably come with its own downsides -- more hours, longer commute, maybe requiring more schooling/training, etc.  Once you lay that all out, you can decide whether the tradeoffs are worth the additional money.

So why do all of this?  Because it is a reminder that you have the power here, and if you don't like where you are, you can change it.  The problem with feeling bored/stuck is that it paints you as the victim; you are just stuck in this situation and can't do anything else but slog through.  And that is 100% not true.  You have put yourself in this situation due to your own choices, and if those choices are no longer working for you, then you have both the power and the responsibility to make different ones.

Here's the real key:  you will very likely figure out that those big choices you have made -- staying married to your wife, being there for your kids, working your current job, keeping the house, etc. -- are all the best of the available choices.  There is real value in reminding yourself that you chose this and remembering why; it's giving yourself credit for living aligned with your values.  FWIW, I do this every time I get bored/antsy -- what is missing?  what would I need to do to get whatever it is I think I want?  Are those tradeoffs worth it?  That process anchors me in reality (getting my head out of the lottery clouds) and reminds me why I chose what I did.

If the big pieces of your life are still working for you, you can do a similar analysis on the little choices.  If life is just too much of the same thing, brainstorm ways to shake up the routine -- get a babysitter on a Tuesday night and go have a drink with your wife, or go for a family picnic instead of settling in front of the TV, or do something other than a family camping trip for vacation, or take multiple long weekends instead of one bigger trip, or try to learn a new recipe from some kind of cuisine you love but don't know how to make, or take an art class just because you know you'll be bad at it, or find some charity/community group that does things you value and offer your time to them, etc. etc. etc.  The options are limited only by your imagination.

FWIW:  it doesn't matter whether you thought your grandmother's life was small and unimpressive.  What matters is what she thought about her life.  My Granny passed a couple of years ago at around the same age.  She never held a job outside the house, spent her life raising her kids and grandkids.  But oh boy did she have a huge impact on her family.  I'm still not sure how she did it, but she absolutely doted on us, and yet we all also knew you didn't mess with Granny -- even though to this day I cannot remember her ever raising her voice.  When I'd get upset with my kids, I'd think "what would Granny do??"  She had significantly fewer options than any of us did, but she made the best choices she could, and she lived a life that brought her meaning and happiness, and in the process made a huge impact on the people around her.  I'm pretty sure she'd have chosen that above any kind of high-power, high-status corporate position.

Agree a lot with what you’ve said here, thanks for the extensive, thoughtful post, much appreciated

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2024, 10:38:37 PM »
I’m 35, male, married with two daughters aged 3 & 5. Live in New Zealand.

From the outside things look great. Have a debt free home worth $650k. Have a superannuation with 250k in it and other index funds with 50k in them that we add to each month. I have a good middle management job that supports the family to live a frugal yet very comfortable life. The pantry is always full, the power bill is always paid and there is a bit left over for an annual camping holiday each summer and the occasional meal out with my wife and or/wife and kids.

My health is good enough, exercise regularly and eat healthy. I long for nothing material wise as home is small but modern, Toyota modern safe cars in the driveway.

Ive begun learning piano doing lessons weekly which is a new hobby I’m enjoying. My marriage is great she’s the love of my life.

So then why am I sad and moping around most days? It feels like Groundhog Day most days. Get up, do some exercise at home, go to work, come home to kids, bath, dinner, bed. Read a book, practice piano. Do our stretches, do chores, then bed. I long to have more time during the day to pursue sports and hobbies, I long for a life that’s got more to it. 

I just attended and spoke the eulogy of my grandmother who died at 94, she worked basic manual jobs most her life, lived in a basic home and raised my father and aunties. Hardly anything of note. I feel like I want to do more in my life.


We’ve built up a solid financial foundation so going into business and risking it all isn’t something my wife and I want to do. It feels like it’s just rinse and repeat for the next 15-20 years until the stash is big enough to wave paid employment behind.

It’s feeling like a real slog with no end in sight. I bought a lottery ticket this week for the 2nd time in my life and dreamt all week of the life I’d live if I won it and when I didn’t win I was in a state of depression for a day or two.

How do I get out of this funk and change my mindset? The majority of the world would kill for the life I’m living right now. I feel like an ungrateful person.

I know how you feel, but have 3 pieces of advice. 1 is a little depressing, 2 are actual practical things you can do.

1. This is what it's like to be human. We seek out the best and easiest ways to get what we want. If we're good at it, we get there by mid life and then don't know what to do next. It feels a bit like a let down. Unfortunately this suffering is just a part of life. There are ways to make it feel a little better like going on trips, buying things, spending time with people we care about, getting in shape and enjoying nature. But these are all temporary and will leave you back to where you started. Accepting that this suffering & boredom are a part of life will make you feel better.

2. One practical thing is to go on a weekend backpacking trip. Have you been to Yosemite? Borrow or rent a backpack and camping gear. Go hike up a few miles past inspiration point. Camp for a night or two and stare at half dome & yosemite valley. This won't solve the problem, but it'll feel pretty damn good and you'll come back with some great pictures.

3. Second practical thing is to pick something really hard and do it. Run a marathon, bench your own weight or squat 2x your weight, remodel a bathroom, get a big promotion, paint a mural, play in a piano concert in front of people. Whatever it is pick something that you feel is out of your reach, but not impossible and figure out how to do it. Again this doesn't solve the issue, but it quiets down all the thoughts you're having about it and helps you focus on something that really matters in your life.

If you figure out something better let me know. There's no solution to this problem. You can either accept it or do things to ignore it. The only reason why you feel it more than others who are struggling in life financially & health wise is because you have that stuff figured out so you don't need to worry about it. People who are living paycheck to paycheck don't have time for existential thoughts. They are thinking about paying the rent. It's good to be in your spot, but recognize that no matter how well you do, you need these struggles to feel purpose in your life. My #2 & #3 ideas are just ways to create a struggle that you can overcome (and enjoy overcoming). This is better than being in your head all day.

Thanks, on point 3 that’s where piano comes in will take me a lifetime to master it. Also going to join gym to get back to my 100kg deadlift and squat I got to a few years ago.

The point 2 feel like my wife and I need to get away from kids and have something to look forward to have engaged grandparents for an overnight baby sit to make this happen.

Point 1, yep just gotta suck it up sometimes can’t be all unicorns and rainbows. The social connection have identified as lacking so a few options as per above comments for those too

Thanks for the comment appreciate the advice

BOP Mustache

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2024, 10:40:40 PM »
I'm struck by a couple things in the initial post.

1. Total lack of mention of friends or community

Family is great.  They're important.  You need to make time for them.  But they're not enough on their own.  Don't practice piano at home alone, get out of the house and find some folks to jam with.  Don't do a workout at home, join up with a sports group of some sort and exercise with other people.  It's very easy for people today to slowly isolate themselves socially.  Humans are evolved to be social animals.  There are huge benefits to forcing yourself to be a little more social than is natural, especially when you're feeling stuck in a rut.  (I'm saying this as a natural introvert who doesn't ever jump at the chance to be around other people.)

2.  Wistful yearning to do something.

You want to do more with your life.  Cool.  What exactly do you want to do?  Figure that out (make a big list of everything that you can think of that sounds cool), and then do it.  You don't have to do it all at once.  You don't have to stick to any of it (a bunch of it will actually turn out to suck more than you thought and not be fun).  You will occasionally have to disrupt your happy and efficient schedule to make things happen, or spend money that will set you back a bit on your retirement path.  But it's worth it in the long run, and will lead to a life of fewer regrets.  Doing helps turn the monotonous grinding through the same thing for decades into making life a fun adventure.

Point #1
After reading comments that really stuck out so working on getting together more with guy mates, looking at a social sports side to join in with too

Have done point #2 it’s mostly travel and do some cool things athletically and experiences quite a few things I can do with current lifestyle thanks for the tips

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2024, 12:01:34 AM »
That sounds really positive for both of you, I’m glad to hear it.

The older I get the more I recognise the wisdom of the saying: “he aha te mea nui o te ao? Māku e kī atu, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.”

use2betrix

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2024, 01:48:06 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.

I get that sentiment, but I'm so vehemently against living for the future when you have the resources to enjoy your life in the present.

That's not a YOLO, spend more now, fuck the future kind of statement. It's just that it sounds like OP is healthy, secure, and has literally nothing holding them back from living a rich and satisfying life by just figuring out what's missing, which several of us have pointed out could be human connection, which absolutely DOES NOT need to wait for FIRE.

A lot of folks don't know how to be happy.

Just yesterday I was reading through a note that I’ve compiled of all my favorite quotes/messages I’ve seen over the last decade, from all sources. One of my favorites came from here on this topic:

“ …So go ahead, make a savings goal, but always keep in mind that the purpose of the goal is to decide how you behave financially NOW, not in the future. Imagined futures should inspire your plans for today, but they aren't the purpose of making a plan.

Lastly, since the purpose of the plan is to guide decisions and behaviours today, and only today, then a plan that fails to make you happy today is a bad plan, so you should put a lot more energy into examining how your plan is affecting current you...because being "extremely goal oriented" is often just a fancy way of saying "I'm comfortable neglecting my current well being for an imagined future that may not happen".”

Metalcat

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2024, 03:55:34 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.

I get that sentiment, but I'm so vehemently against living for the future when you have the resources to enjoy your life in the present.

That's not a YOLO, spend more now, fuck the future kind of statement. It's just that it sounds like OP is healthy, secure, and has literally nothing holding them back from living a rich and satisfying life by just figuring out what's missing, which several of us have pointed out could be human connection, which absolutely DOES NOT need to wait for FIRE.

A lot of folks don't know how to be happy.

Just yesterday I was reading through a note that I’ve compiled of all my favorite quotes/messages I’ve seen over the last decade, from all sources. One of my favorites came from here on this topic:

“ …So go ahead, make a savings goal, but always keep in mind that the purpose of the goal is to decide how you behave financially NOW, not in the future. Imagined futures should inspire your plans for today, but they aren't the purpose of making a plan.

Lastly, since the purpose of the plan is to guide decisions and behaviours today, and only today, then a plan that fails to make you happy today is a bad plan, so you should put a lot more energy into examining how your plan is affecting current you...because being "extremely goal oriented" is often just a fancy way of saying "I'm comfortable neglecting my current well being for an imagined future that may not happen".”

Are you quoting me to me? Cuz that sounds like me...but I never remember what I write, but that sure sounds like me...

use2betrix

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2024, 10:18:41 AM »
Embrace it. This is the fire that gets you to FIRE. Plan things so you have something to look forward to. Small trips, bigger trips, weddings, important birthdays, projects, whatever makes you and your family happy. If your company offers sabbatical, take a great one.

I felt the same way you do. So fucking many Groundhog Days. Once I reached FIRE, I realized every one of them was getting me closer to my goal. They weren't a waste at all.

I get that sentiment, but I'm so vehemently against living for the future when you have the resources to enjoy your life in the present.

That's not a YOLO, spend more now, fuck the future kind of statement. It's just that it sounds like OP is healthy, secure, and has literally nothing holding them back from living a rich and satisfying life by just figuring out what's missing, which several of us have pointed out could be human connection, which absolutely DOES NOT need to wait for FIRE.

A lot of folks don't know how to be happy.

Just yesterday I was reading through a note that I’ve compiled of all my favorite quotes/messages I’ve seen over the last decade, from all sources. One of my favorites came from here on this topic:

“ …So go ahead, make a savings goal, but always keep in mind that the purpose of the goal is to decide how you behave financially NOW, not in the future. Imagined futures should inspire your plans for today, but they aren't the purpose of making a plan.

Lastly, since the purpose of the plan is to guide decisions and behaviours today, and only today, then a plan that fails to make you happy today is a bad plan, so you should put a lot more energy into examining how your plan is affecting current you...because being "extremely goal oriented" is often just a fancy way of saying "I'm comfortable neglecting my current well being for an imagined future that may not happen".”

Are you quoting me to me? Cuz that sounds like me...but I never remember what I write, but that sure sounds like me...

Lol - yes, it was definitely you..

Dicey

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2024, 12:46:23 PM »
^This^

Fun Fact: When I'm reading on my tablet at night when I can't sleep, I have to blow up the screen so much I can't see the author's name. I can now suss out several people's "voices". Metalcat's at the very top of the list.

wageslave23

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2024, 02:12:12 PM »
Some of what you describe may be partially a difference in personality.  My wife would love the life you just described.  It sounds like just a step up from cubicle hell to me. So even though what you are describing sounds like a great life, it's obviously not a great life to you.

Our life is very similar to the one you described, providing for and playing with our child, visiting friends and family for get togethers, exercising, generally doing the smart, practical, socially approved things. Some of it may be female/male differences. But I told her the other day, if I go to one more "get together", I'm going to freak out. So she sent me off on a kayaking trip with a friend of mine.  We spent 4 hours navigating fallen trees, sloshing through mud and bugs and praying the other would capsized and we'd catch it on video to share with our other friends. The point is, I need novel, exciting, adventures, mixed in with the suburban family man monotony. As others have said, do something challenging, outdoors preferably, that's exciting and maybe a little dangerous.  And don't be afraid to sacrifice piano, exercise, or anything else that sucks up all your time and isn't providing a fun life. Don't live someone else's idea of a great life.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2024, 04:20:21 PM »
^This^

Fun Fact: When I'm reading on my tablet at night when I can't sleep, I have to blow up the screen so much I can't see the author's name. I can now suss out several people's "voices". Metalcat's at the very top of the list.

Haha, Laura is at the top of mine, with Metalcat not far behind!

OP, you’ve received and taken some very good advice already! What I’d like to add is that I remember feeling like that a couple of years ago, when my kids where similar ages as yours are now. At that age there’s just so much work needed to take care of them, and they like and need routines. But you said you can see this life stretching out for many years ahead — it won’t, though. When kids are slightly older you can and will do so many more things with them (and without them, as they become more independent, leaving you with more time). You will meet new people through them, and your family dynamic will change as you start being able to have proper conversations with them. I’m currently enjoying the phase when our kids are old enough to do cool things, and still young enough to want to do them with their parents…

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2024, 10:10:51 AM »
LOL I had my first midlife crisis when I was 25 and have averaged one every 3-4 years since then. A series of exhausting major life changes later and now actually nearing midlife, I'm like "leave me alone, I just want to lie on the couch for a couple years." (Which would probably trigger another midlife crisis.) But, all those major changes did make my life notably better, so at least things improved by getting it out of my system. Midlife crises: early and often and acted upon enthusiastically gives the best results.

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Re: From the outside have it all - but Groundhog Day everyday
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2024, 03:07:07 PM »
I bought a lottery ticket this week for the 2nd time in my life and dreamt all week of the life I’d live if I won it and when I didn’t win I was in a state of depression for a day or two.

The last time I went in on an office lottery pool, I realized that this dreaming & the crash afterwards was toxic to me. I've sworn off the lottery & never looked back.