Author Topic: Freedom jobs -- Fitness / Personal Trainer vs. Real Estate Agent vs ???  (Read 13999 times)

KBecks2

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Hi Mustachians,

I am considering my "next job" -- yes yes, I know the goal is to retire.  However, we are not quite totally FI yet but we are doing well, and on track.  Right now, my job is mom / homemaker and part time group exercise fitness instructor.  Those are wonderful jobs.  The pay is however, low. 

I have been thinking about possible things to do for a job, and I'm not sure exactly where to go.

1.  Continue with group exercise, add in small group personal training.
2.  Become a real estate agent
3.  Become a property manager
4.  Some combination of 3 / 4 + land lording or real estate investing.
5.  Fun jobs -- blogging, book writing

What I am looking for…

1.  Fun job
2.  Job where I use my brain and can be creative
3.  Job where I help people

I had considered things for the money, mostly "dumb" jobs (no offense) like delivering pizza, or a retail job, but I would get bored so fast!!!!!!!!!!  Can't handle that.  Sucks.  I need to do something challenging and/or creative.

I consider fun jobs, like blogging and writing, etc.  It would be fun. For sure!  I would want to be financially successful at these jobs.

OK, I am thinking about real estate but I am worried about it.  How much time does it take?  Is it all evenings and weekends?  How much would it eat into family time?  Would I be successful?  How hard is it to learn and get started?

Or I can continue with fitness and pursue personal training to increase the money.  However, it's all "me", I'm selling my time.  In real estate the payouts seem to be bigger for time spent. 

How do you think real estate will change in the future?  I believe this industry is changing, but I'm not exactly sure how it will change and how it will stay the same.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions!

tn3sport

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2 jobs that help people: (part of your criteria)

Physical Therapist: They are in demand everywhere, pay well, and if you setup your job based on clients instead of a salaried position, you'll be able to schedule lots of free time. Education requirement is a little steep in most states and also takes a while to develop a client basis.

Travel Nurse: Not sure what its officially called. But, you travel and work for 3 to 6 month periods, then have significant time off. Great way to see the country and live in different places. Not good for building long term personal relationships.

zephyr911

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I can't speak to the others, but here are my thoughts on real estate:

I got my license about 15 months ago, the same season when I co-founded a real estate investment partnership and found MMM. DW and I have two rentals, and my LLC owns two duplexes and will be buying more property soon. I can tell you that the roles of agent, property manager, and investor all dovetail nicely. I was profitable in my first year - actually had to defer income for tax purposes - because my own buying alone was enough to earn commissions well in excess of the startup and first-year costs.

I plan on real estate being my FIRE job; I genuinely love it and it rarely feels like work to me. Real estate school will teach you a lot of things that property managers need to know, and getting commission for your own investment buys is such easy money that it almost feels like cheating.

As for how the business might change in the future - there's definitely some ongoing shakeup, and discount options are multiplying rapidly for the DIY-minded and cost-conscious buyers and sellers. But my impression is that most people are (and will remain) willing to pay a fair price for quality professional service. If you structure your plan so that you don't have to prioritize maximum income, you will not only be a better agent than most (because you can genuinely pursue the best outcome for your client at all times) but you will have more fun with the job.

MBot

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What's is the real estate average price where you are?

It's a lot harder to live on commissions from a place houses average  $75k than in a place they average $750k

KBecks2

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   

How does that sound?   

I am more worried about having to look pretty all the time.  I am more comfortable in gym clothes and sweaty!  I am also worried about having to close deals -- you know, sometimes having to push people into a decision.  Will I get the clients who look at 600 houses and buy nothing??  I have a lot of patience but that could be a problem!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:52:30 AM by KBecks2 »

KBecks2

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2 jobs that help people: (part of your criteria)

Physical Therapist: They are in demand everywhere, pay well, and if you setup your job based on clients instead of a salaried position, you'll be able to schedule lots of free time. Education requirement is a little steep in most states and also takes a while to develop a client basis.

Travel Nurse: Not sure what its officially called. But, you travel and work for 3 to 6 month periods, then have significant time off. Great way to see the country and live in different places. Not good for building long term personal relationships.

Physical therapists are AMAZING people!  They do amazing work!   However, I don't think I would like the environment of that job -- I've always hated doctors offices and enclosed little exam rooms, even when they are nicely furnished.  It's a great career though!

I don't want to work in nursing and the travel would not work for my family, I'm very settled and married with 3 kids, but thank you for those suggestions!!

Yesterday I was figuring the amounts needed to retire, and what I really want/need is an engaging supplemental job.  I probably will need $2k -- $3k / month, although more would be fine, of course.

I would love to find a passive income "job".  Not sure what though!!


Fishingmn

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   

I'm a realtor.

You are missing a little bit on this calculation. That may be the overall commission (buyer commission in the Twin Cities is 2.7% not 3%) but the agent doesn't keep it all. You have to split that with the broker. New agents may give up as much as half. More experienced agents keep a higher percentage but they may also pay monthly desk/brokerage fees.

On top of that you have MLS fees, association dues, marketing expenses, car expenses, E&O insurance all while getting no benefits from the brokerage and paying both sides of FICA.

Lets just speculate that you get a little more than half of that average sale (around $3,000) and the first one each year totally goes to fixed expenses.  That would mean in order to make $30,000 you would need to sell 11 houses each year. Yes, it is very flexible and no day is the same but does that meet your goals? 11 sales would already be more than the national average of homes sold/agent.

In addition, the one thing you need to understand about being a realtor is that there are really 2 totally different jobs you do. The one everyone thinks of is knowing the process and contracts and then helping people buy or sell their home. The one that many don't think of is that you need to be good at marketing. You don't succeed until you are successful at finding clients and convincing them to work with you. If you have a large network of friends & family that will hire you that's helpful to get started. Otherwise, you need to work hard to find clients whether that be open houses, knocking on doors, direct mail, paying for leads or social media strategies.

Personally, I like the flexibility and variety involved but I think there's a pretty big turnover of part-time agents who don't understand the cost structure or what it takes to succeed.

And to answer another question - yes, you need to have a flexible schedule. I work when clients want to see me which includes days, nights, weekends and often on short notice. That said, I can suggest alternative times that work best and there are lots of times I am home with no commitments (since I only sell 10-15 houses/year).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 08:39:13 AM by Fishingmn »

Cougar

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   


Personally, I like the flexibility and variety involved but I think there's a pretty big turnover of part-time agents who don't understand the cost structure or what it takes to succeed.

And to answer another question - yes, you need to have a flexible schedule. I work when clients want to see me which includes days, nights, weekends and often on short notice. That said, I can suggest alternative times that work best and there are lots of times I am home with no commitments (since I only sell 10-15 houses/year).

 this is why i wouldnt do realtor or trainer, you're at the customers convenience. maybe a realtor is okay because if you make your number for the year, then i'd take it easy; but youre still on call until then.

showing a house at 8pm on a friday 3 day weekend, no thank you.

I'm a red panda

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The successful real estate agents I know have one of two things going for them
1) They work their asses off: evenings, weekends, daytime. They HUSTLE. And it seems to be a field where you spend money to make money; so the first few years have a lot of associated costs that may take awhile to recoup. You also need a fairly nice car to drive clients around in. The typical MMM beater isn't going to cut it.

2) They have a relationship with a builder and most houses "sold" are working with the people who go straight to the builder.

KBecks2

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   


Personally, I like the flexibility and variety involved but I think there's a pretty big turnover of part-time agents who don't understand the cost structure or what it takes to succeed.

And to answer another question - yes, you need to have a flexible schedule. I work when clients want to see me which includes days, nights, weekends and often on short notice. That said, I can suggest alternative times that work best and there are lots of times I am home with no commitments (since I only sell 10-15 houses/year).

 this is why i wouldnt do realtor or trainer, you're at the customers convenience. maybe a realtor is okay because if you make your number for the year, then i'd take it easy; but youre still on call until then.

showing a house at 8pm on a friday 3 day weekend, no thank you.

 Perhaps the worst thing is that your busiest in the summer !  I'm not sure I want to give up a lot of summer nights.

MrGreen

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I would recommend just getting your broker's license. I'm considering Realty as a FIRE job as well because I love real estate and it's what I plan to do. Eliminates the middle man and some of the BS you get dealing with a broker.

Something else to consider is that in many states (don't know about all) you don't have to be a Realtor to be in real estate. Personally, I enjoy looking at zoning ordinances, researching deeds, and doing all the grunt work associated with truly understanding a piece of property and what you can and can't do with it. I have yet to work with a realtor who knows as much as I do and I don't even have a license. That's not to say there aren't some good ones out there but it can be a crap shoot. If you enjoy real estate and can demonstrate a knowledge base that puts most realtors to shame, there's nothing that says you can't buy or sell someone's property for them without being a Realtor. It's just contracts. The only thing the Realtors Association has done is "standardize" the process. However, you would likely have to work to overcome the misconception of "not being a professional" at first. But once word gets out that you generally tend to know what you're doing more so than anyone else in the area, the fact that you don't have a license probably won't mean much. You'll need to find a way to get access to the MLS though. This is my back up plan.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 11:10:36 AM by AngryJesus »

nitsuj1225

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I would recommend just getting your broker's license. I'm considering Realty as a FIRE job as well because I love real estate and it's what I plan to do. Eliminates the middle man and some of the BS you get dealing with a broker.

Something else to consider is that in many states (don't know about all) you don't have to be a Realtor to be in real estate. Personally, I enjoy looking at zoning ordinances, researching deeds, and doing all the grunt work associated with truly understanding a piece of property and what you can and can't do with it. I have yet to work with a realtor who knows as much as I do and I don't even have a license. That's not to say there aren't some good ones out there but it can be a crap shoot. If you enjoy real estate and can demonstrate a knowledge base that puts most realtors to shame, there's nothing that says you can't buy or sell someone's property for them without being a Realtor. It's just contracts. The only thing the Realtors Association has done is "standardize" the process. However, you would likely have to work to overcome the misconception of "not being a professional" at first. But once word gets out that you generally tend to know what you're doing more so than anyone else in the area, the fact that you don't have a license probably won't mean much. You'll need to find a way to get access to the MLS though. This is my back up plan.

As long as you sell or buy a house not in your own name and receive a commission you are considered an agent, thus requiring a license.  It's the same as selling insurance or investing other people's money for commission, you need to be licensed as required by law.  It's the reason the real estate license exists, otherwise, why would anyone go through the trouble of getting their license if it wasn't required?

MrGreen

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I guess it depends on the state. It didn't used to be that way. Bummer, given how poor my experiences have been.

I'm a red panda

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As long as you sell or buy a house not in your own name and receive a commission you are considered an agent, thus requiring a license.  It's the same as selling insurance or investing other people's money for commission, you need to be licensed as required by law.  It's the reason the real estate license exists, otherwise, why would anyone go through the trouble of getting their license if it wasn't required?

You can be a real estate agent without being a realtor though.  At least I thought realtor was some sort of special title.

mamagoose

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Have you considered opening your own gym / fitness studio? Combine entrepreneurship with your passion of fitness & helping others.

KBecks2

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Combination of #1 and #5: personal fitness blogger

You ramp up your personal group classes, you use your brain to identify the proper way to exercise, perform research online into your area, and blog about it at the same time.  Blogging would allow you to have scale - reaching more people than your local gym.

That is interesting.  My specialty right now would be more along the lines of senior fitness.  Helping people with obesity and the psychology of pursuing fitness and nutrition is also a very interesting possible field. 

KBecks2

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   

I'm a realtor.

You are missing a little bit on this calculation. That may be the overall commission (buyer commission in the Twin Cities is 2.7% not 3%) but the agent doesn't keep it all. You have to split that with the broker. New agents may give up as much as half. More experienced agents keep a higher percentage but they may also pay monthly desk/brokerage fees.

On top of that you have MLS fees, association dues, marketing expenses, car expenses, E&O insurance all while getting no benefits from the brokerage and paying both sides of FICA.

Lets just speculate that you get a little more than half of that average sale (around $3,000) and the first one each year totally goes to fixed expenses.  That would mean in order to make $30,000 you would need to sell 11 houses each year. Yes, it is very flexible and no day is the same but does that meet your goals? 11 sales would already be more than the national average of homes sold/agent.

In addition, the one thing you need to understand about being a realtor is that there are really 2 totally different jobs you do. The one everyone thinks of is knowing the process and contracts and then helping people buy or sell their home. The one that many don't think of is that you need to be good at marketing. You don't succeed until you are successful at finding clients and convincing them to work with you. If you have a large network of friends & family that will hire you that's helpful to get started. Otherwise, you need to work hard to find clients whether that be open houses, knocking on doors, direct mail, paying for leads or social media strategies.

Personally, I like the flexibility and variety involved but I think there's a pretty big turnover of part-time agents who don't understand the cost structure or what it takes to succeed.

And to answer another question - yes, you need to have a flexible schedule. I work when clients want to see me which includes days, nights, weekends and often on short notice. That said, I can suggest alternative times that work best and there are lots of times I am home with no commitments (since I only sell 10-15 houses/year).

I am glad you are here and thank you for the insights!  I know very little about being a real estate agent.  That is probably part of the appeal, part ignorance, and partly the excitement of being able to dig in and learn an entirely new business /industry.

In my early career, I worked in marketing and advertising.  I am good at marketing for clients, but not always the best at marketing myself.  I can see how the marketing could get expensive, with mailers and "stuff". 

I have some dumb questions about real estate:

1. do most agents sign on with the big well known firms?
2. who puts in the big signs in the yards?  Do you hire that out?
3.  do you have sales quotas if you work with a big firm, is there a ton of pressure on you?
4.  How much does it cost to obtain / maintain license?   I could go for a broker's license too.   I understand it gets spendy.
5.  How do you cope with no health insurance, do you buy it for yourself or use your spouses?
6.  I am tenacious but don't have the most refined sales skills.  Did you get additional sales training?

The things I think I would like about real estate are learning the market and learning to do comparables and figuring out the puzzles of how to market properties.  Meeting people is good.  I am naturally more introverted but I do well with one on one relationships and focusing on individuals rather than groups. 

I am also interested in investment real estate but I'm not sure if I'll go there, I may stick to the stock market.  If being an agent would help me find solid deals then I may try out real estate investing.  I could tailor to work with investors but that would likely mean doing low cost property in the city, that is not necessarily what I want to do.

mamagoose

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The Fitnessista is a successful fitness blogger. She started out as a personal trainer and group fitness instructor, and still does that, but her "career" is a blogger. Fun to read too :)

wenchsenior

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Hi mBot, I was listening to the Honest Real Estate Agent podcasts and got the sense of that.  The houses in the immediate area where I live average $182,900.   OK, so 3% = $5,487.   


Personally, I like the flexibility and variety involved but I think there's a pretty big turnover of part-time agents who don't understand the cost structure or what it takes to succeed.

And to answer another question - yes, you need to have a flexible schedule. I work when clients want to see me which includes days, nights, weekends and often on short notice. That said, I can suggest alternative times that work best and there are lots of times I am home with no commitments (since I only sell 10-15 houses/year).

 this is why i wouldnt do realtor or trainer, you're at the customers convenience. maybe a realtor is okay because if you make your number for the year, then i'd take it easy; but youre still on call until then.

showing a house at 8pm on a friday 3 day weekend, no thank you.

 Perhaps the worst thing is that your busiest in the summer !  I'm not sure I want to give up a lot of summer nights.

Just adding confirmation that if you want to set your own schedule, real estate might not be a great option. My father was the millionaire next door type, ran his own private real estate business that was very successful. BUT, he hated doing it (he was not a people-person, just a good faker)...and he worked long hours, 6 days a week, and often off hours because of course, that is when clients are often available. Summer was busiest, which he resented because we lived in northern Wisconsin where winters were loooong and my father couldn't take as much time to enjoy the summer as he wanted.

He made a trade-off, which he absolutely busted his ass from age 25-55, then sold the business and retired. Not sure he'd do it that way again, though.

However, like I said,  he was temperamentally not very suited to that job (introvert and very rigid in his schedule preference). Actually pretty amazing how well he did at it, mainly through determination to succeed, I think.

If you are an extrovert who is ok with being at peoples' beck and call, and having your plans change on short notice, you might thrive at that business.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!