Forum Rules/Etiquette: Referral Codes, Links and Blog Promotion

[ChicagoGirl]

I like to see others be successful, so please don't perceive my comment below as being snarky or not wanting to see others succeed in their blog adventures...

What is the proper etiquette/rules when MMM forum members are promoting their own personal blogs, websites, referral codes/links, etc in the footer of their profiles?  I read the MMM forum rules which only allows for a link to your blog, that's it. Referral codes/links, article links, etc are considered SPAMMY. 

It just seems lately I am seeing an influx of constant self-promotion by some forum members in the footer of their profiles regarding referral links, referral codes, links to their own blog articles, etc.   

Recently, I saw a post started by a forum member that read like an article from their own blog, but disguised as a "forum topic" for discussion. 

I think it's fine to have a link to your blog with a short description of what your blog is about in your profile. (For Example: "Betty's Garden.com-I write about organic gardening"   But, when a forum member's profile looks like a full banner advertisement ....could this be bordering on SPAM and blur the lines of being a forum participant vs. participating in the forum with the sole purpose of free self-promotion and/or possible financial gain?

I just appreciate MMM absorbing all of the costs to keep servers running and keeping the lights on at the MMM website because I have learned so much from the site and the forum, so when I feel other members are taking advantage of the good nature of this forum and ignoring the rules of the site it bothers me.

Maybe I am way off base in my opinion, how do others feel about this??

[Sibley]

I saw the post you're referring to, and there was a Mod post that the OP had been warned. I generally ignore stuff like that however, and don't have a blog or anything myself. If it's bad enough for me to notice, I would assume someone else has complained about it and a Mod is looking into it.

[swick]

{MOD NOTE: The following response is with my "Mod Hat" on}

There has been an influx of people spamming - it always seems to happen whenever MMM gets national coverage. Our work load as moderators usually increases substantially for a period of time and them levels out again. We try to stay on top of it and get most of the obvious stuff before it is reported, however, we're all volunteers and rely very heavily on the "report to Mod" function.

Most of the blog/promotion stuff we look at on a case by case basis. In some cases forum members have been around a LONG time and have answered the same questions over and over and over. If they have or know of a blog post that covers the topic, they will share it. We generally don't have a problem with this.  As long as a response contributes to the conversation and community, we don't usually have an issue. It is similar to anyone posting a blog resource, as long as they state that it is their blog.

Usually issues come up in regards to referral links, we take a stronger stance against this. There are a few threads dedicated to sharing links in order so everyone benefits. You would not believe how many times these threads are being reported because people are jumping the line or re-posting their links...it is a massive headache for us. We generally no longer post warnings or try to actively moderate these threads, if we get a report someone is double posting or whatever we will just go in and delete them. It is not worth our volunteer time to try and sort out.

There have been cases of long time forum members enthusiastically promoting their own products and blogs in a way that is super spammy. Usually a warning is enough to let these folks know it is not appropriate. Some users have disregarded our warning and despite being otherwise contributing members of our community, have been banned for repeated violations.

There may be an argument for limiting the number of words/characters that one can put in their signature, or re-working the rules. If we notice it is an on-going problem then we can look into it. I think we would rather take the time and deal with people on a case by case basis then instigate sweeping changes that effectively punish everyone.

[Sibley]

That makes sense to me. I know it's a big forum, so must be tough to keep an eye on everything and everyone.

[ChicagoGirl]

I appreciate the mods doing their best and volunteering their time.  I have seen the really SPAMMY posts be taken down right away. Most times those are done by a new forum account with 1 or 2 posts.

I have seen some older members take advantage of the high traffic here on the forum for their own self promotion.  One forum member even commenting that they participate on the forum everyday to help drive up their blog traffic. I question when I see some of those certain forum members starting discussion threads because I feel there could be an underlying motive behind their participation. The more they post, the more people see their forum profile.   

I know, I know...it's in the Blogger 101 handbook that suggests participating in other forums to drive up their own numbers, but I think there is a fine line in 'participating' and 'tooting your own horn' on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day.

I even see the self-promotion in the Comments section of MMM's articles. MMM even asks to not list your blog/website in the comments section or including it in the name you use in the Comments, but many still do it and I guess I just perceive it as bad etiquette. 

I am not suggesting that MMM mods be strict rule enforcers that is a lot to ask of those volunteering their time. I could always just block those members that I feel cross the line.  :)

[solon]

You can also hide the footers (aka signatures) in your account settings. This has been a great help to me in getting through long threads.

[HappierAtHome]

I appreciate the mods doing their best and volunteering their time.  I have seen the really SPAMMY posts be taken down right away. Most times those are done by a new forum account with 1 or 2 posts.

I have seen some older members take advantage of the high traffic here on the forum for their own self promotion.  One forum member even commenting that they participate on the forum everyday to help drive up their blog traffic. I question when I see some of those certain forum members starting discussion threads because I feel there could be an underlying motive behind their participation. The more they post, the more people see their forum profile.   

I know, I know...it's in the Blogger 101 handbook that suggests participating in other forums to drive up their own numbers, but I think there is a fine line in 'participating' and 'tooting your own horn' on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day.

I even see the self-promotion in the Comments section of MMM's articles. MMM even asks to not list your blog/website in the comments section or including it in the name you use in the Comments, but many still do it and I guess I just perceive it as bad etiquette. 

I am not suggesting that MMM mods be strict rule enforcers that is a lot to ask of those volunteering their time. I could always just block those members that I feel cross the line.  :)

I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's made me consider just blocking posts from the forum users who seem to do this repeatedly too. I don't mind somebody linking to their blog in their signature, but starting thread after thread on 'hot topics' they just so happen to have recently covered on their blog is... not cool. And pretty freaking transparent.

In fact, you've convinced me, and I'm off to block posts from the worst offender. Won't be my problem anymore ;-)

[swick]

I appreciate the mods doing their best and volunteering their time.  I have seen the really SPAMMY posts be taken down right away. Most times those are done by a new forum account with 1 or 2 posts.

I have seen some older members take advantage of the high traffic here on the forum for their own self promotion.  One forum member even commenting that they participate on the forum everyday to help drive up their blog traffic. I question when I see some of those certain forum members starting discussion threads because I feel there could be an underlying motive behind their participation. The more they post, the more people see their forum profile.

A basic fact of human nature is no one does anything unless there is something in it for themselves. It might just be the feel good feeling or *high* they get from helping others, some like having a community they feel they are a part of, it might be to promote themselves, it might be because they feel compelled to help others as they have been helped...we really can't police the motivation behind why people use the forum.

We have an awesome community here and most people contribute to the greater good. However, every one of us consciously or not has an agenda. You have to take what you read anywhere with a grain of salt and consider the source of the advice and if it is relevant for you. 

There are people who are obviously biased and give piss poor advice (especially in the investing thread) Luckily we also have a bunch of smart members who will pretty much call people on their bullshit every single time. We also Moderate when necessary - but usually it is more effective to let the community moderate themselves - they do a great job. Usually it is better to see someone refuted publicly with clear reasoned logic by the community then to just delete or heavily moderate someone - then everyone learns something.

That being said - if you see something you think is out of line, flag it and we'll take a look.

I even see the self-promotion in the Comments section of MMM's articles. MMM even asks to not list your blog/website in the comments section or including it in the name you use in the Comments, but many still do it and I guess I just perceive it as bad etiquette. 

It is bad etiquette, but the comments are moderated and have to be approved, so we can only assume they have passed someones smell test.

I thought according to the forum rules, we were allowed to put a link in our forum signature.  This is a no-follow forum so the links don't get attention from search engines correct?

That is my understanding, people who are getting traffic to their blogs from the forums are because people are curious enough to click a link.

[Erica/NWEdible]

Hmmm. Hard call. My site gets enough traffic that an extra couple hundred views a day from the MMM forums doesn't make or break me, and "self promotion" isn't why I personally participate here at all. I just like the community. (Forum commenting seems like a terribly inefficient way to drive traffic anyway.) OTOH, I'm always happy to shorthand a forum answer with: "Here, go read this." And then link out to a relevant 2000 word article or something I've already written that's on point.

I'm bothered by undeclared affiliate links. I know all the hell about affiliate links, and use them on my own site and make a bit of money from them. I think participants should treat this forum as they would treat a conversation with friends in Pete's living room. Hiding affiliate links into a conversation with friends has always seemed douchey to me. On the other (other) hand, if I love something, I don't mind mentioning it with a non-affiliate link or a declared affiliate tag.

I honestly think, at the end of the day, spam is like porn. You know it when you see it. I think the Mods have to judge intent, and typically what I see is an extremely well run forum that balances community needs and free-flowing discussion without heavy-handedness very well. Yay mods.

[HappierAtHome]

Annnnnd the ignore function seems to be buggy - won't add someone to my ignore list when I try to.

[swick]

I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's made me consider just blocking posts from the forum users who seem to do this repeatedly too. I don't mind somebody linking to their blog in their signature, but starting thread after thread on 'hot topics' they just so happen to have recently covered on their blog is... not cool. And pretty freaking transparent.

In fact, you've convinced me, and I'm off to block posts from the worst offender. Won't be my problem anymore ;-)

Blocking is all well and good, but if there are posters who violate the rules and negatively affect the community, let us know. PM-ing a Mod or using the report to Mod function is the EASIEST and FASTEST way of dealing with these posters. It might be transparent, but we Mods do miss a lot. I know because I'm Canadian I won't wade into a lot of the US-centric politicized threads UNLESS there is a report. 

[swick]

Annnnnd the ignore function seems to be buggy - won't add someone to my ignore list when I try to.

I'll let the Tech guy know, everything is a little buggy - in the process of switching servers

[swick]

Hmmm. Hard call. My site gets enough traffic that an extra couple hundred views a day from the MMM forums doesn't make or break me, and "self promotion" isn't why I personally participate here at all. I just like the community. (Forum commenting seems like a terribly inefficient way to drive traffic anyway.) OTOH, I'm always happy to shorthand a forum answer with: "Here, go read this." And then link out to a relevant 2000 word article or something I've already written that's on point.

I have actually been accused of being you, Erica - I point a lot of people to your site - especially your awesome worksheet on "What I really want from my purchases" It is awesome for newbies who are still in a consumerist mind-set. It probably doesn't make a big difference to your numbers, but it is enough to nudge you back to the forums if you have been a way for a while :)

I'm bothered by undeclared affiliate links. I know all the hell about affiliate links, and use them on my own site and make a bit of money from them. I think participants should treat this forum as they would treat a conversation with friends in Pete's living room. Hiding affiliate links into a conversation with friends has always seemed douchey to me. On the other (other) hand, if I love something, I don't mind mentioning it with a non-affiliate link or a declared affiliate tag.

This is probably the best way of looking at it I have come across, and a great way of explaining things. I might have to use this analogy in some of my mod emails.

I honestly think, at the end of the day, spam is like porn. You know it when you see it. I think the Mods have to judge intent, and typically what I see is an extremely well run forum that balances community needs and free-flowing discussion without heavy-handedness very well. Yay mods.

Thanks :)

[Paul der Krake]

The problem with blocking specific posters is that you still see people replying to them, which can be hard to follow where there's just a natural flow of conversation instead of direct quotes. Either way, you end up reading them or the aftermath of their posts one way or another. I like the current policy of mods only intervening in the most egregious of cases, and letting the flamers discredit themselves on their own.

But now I'm curious who the unnamed annoying posters mentionned in this thread are. Burn books are so fetch.

[HappierAtHome]

I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's made me consider just blocking posts from the forum users who seem to do this repeatedly too. I don't mind somebody linking to their blog in their signature, but starting thread after thread on 'hot topics' they just so happen to have recently covered on their blog is... not cool. And pretty freaking transparent.

In fact, you've convinced me, and I'm off to block posts from the worst offender. Won't be my problem anymore ;-)

Blocking is all well and good, but if there are posters who violate the rules and negatively affect the community, let us know. PM-ing a Mod or using the report to Mod function is the EASIEST and FASTEST way of dealing with these posters.

Cool, I'll make sure I PM you next time I see something that I think is over the line.

Also, now I really want to head over to Erica's site and get that worksheet on "what I really want from my purchases". Haha.

FWIW Erica, I've never found you spammy. It's usually easy to tell which peeps are here to genuinely engage, learn and share :-)

[ChicagoGirl]

Erica, I understand what you are saying...you are right it's all in the context of how it's done.  It's easy to pick out the offenders...you know it when you see it.

Solon - thanks I didn't know you could hide signatures.

Swick  - thanks for all of your info and volunteering as a moderator! :)

[Rural]

I agree that some of the posters under discussion are a pain, but I hope Erica never takes her blog link out of her sig file. I don't want to lose it, but I can't bookmark her site because then I'd never get anything of my own done! :-)

[G-dog]

I don't spend time in all of the topic areas in the forum, but I have not noticed any egregious offenses. If someone is trying to abuse the system, I would think they are posting EVERYWHERE in the forum

I could also be oblivious (there are plenty of things I miss).

But, the mods do a fantastic job, and overall the users obey the intent, if not always the letter, of the 'law'

Did I mention how great the mods are? It cannot be said too much!

[Erica/NWEdible]

Woah, thanks Swick! That's super nice. I'll gratefully take the traffic, don't get me wrong, especially if it's helping people. That "What Do You Really Want" chart was part of a month long series of frugality ruminations. IIRC, I found MMM while I was recovering in bed for a month after some eye surgery went a little sideways and left me unable to focus or really get out of bed for several weeks. I read the entire MMM site front to back with an eye patch on, and the focus on the financial side of stuff that I COULD control was like a life-raft that kept me from drowning in my massive fear that I would never actually see properly again. Then the next month I started that money challenge month on my own site. Injury/illness/etc. can be remarkably crystallizing when it comes to figuring out what you really care about in life.

@HappierAtHome, Rural and Lhamo - thank you very much. :) I once got locked out of the forums on my mobile but not my desktop, which was really weird, and I totally panicked that somehow I had inadvertently stepped over some line I didn't know about. ARS assured me it was a glitch in the matrix and I was not actually being banned. :D SUCH a relief, because I kinda feel like this is my virtual neighborhood pub. I'd hate to lose the awesomeness that is these forums and the folks who contribute here.

[RetiredAt63]

To go totally OT, that is your "gripping hand"

And yes I love your blog, if I move to BC I will be prepared to garden because of it.

On the other (other) hand, if I love something, I don't mind mentioning it with a non-affiliate link or a declared affiliate tag.