Author Topic: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP  (Read 7968 times)

kevinb421

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Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« on: October 10, 2014, 01:17:24 PM »
I am more frustrated than I care to admit by this. I am looking for reassurance and advice. I quit my old job back in July but agreed to stay on at nights to keep them caught up (i was the controller) and then to train a new person. We made a verbal agreement to pay my a full month's pay for August and call it even so I would see the new person was trained. This ended up being a huge benefit to them in the end to the tune of over 70 hours, but whatever cause it's a Catholic School/church that i USED to support.

Today I got this email.

Kevin,
 
I hope all is going well with your new job.  Rose seems to be getting more comfortable here.  Now that she has been here a full month, she will  no longer be needing you to come to the office to assist her.  So, I wanted to finalize our arrangements with you.  I will need you to return your keys.  Also, I was expecting that you would spend 80 hours here with Rose during September.  However, it worked out that you were here six hours. Consequently, I think you should reimburse the church $1137.69.  Please see the math below.
 
One month net pay (160 hours) = $2459.87
80 hours = $1229.93
6 hours = $92.24
 
Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.


I am FLOORED by this. I know they are doing this because they are both in financial trouble and they were rather upset I was leaving. Felt I was leaving them stranded. This was sent to me via email. Today I am sending a certified letter with return notification of the following.

This letter is in response to the email you sent to my gmail account on October 10, 2014. There are some errors in your calculations. Enclosed in this letter you will find the office keys as well as an explanation of my last 7 weeks of employment.

You mentioned in your email that you wanted to finalize our arrangement. Our verbal agreement when processing and approving the August 30th payroll was to pay me as a full time employee for the July 23rd-August 22nd pay period and we would call the rest owed to me even.

When it comes to hours worked you have listed 80 hours which is half time for the month of August plus 6 hours of training with Rose. The issue with this is that the St Paul the Apostle pay period is from the 23rd of each month through the 22nd of the following month.

The pay period in question I was a full time employee from the 23rd through the 31st of July. The remainder of this pay period I worked half-time and continued to work half time for an additional 2 weeks after the 22nd of August. I also trained Rose for a one week period for an individual 6 days to which you have credited me with 1 hour per day.
In addition to this I took one day of my 2 weeks of vacation pay earned for this year. I mentioned how my vacation hours would be applied as half days for the first 18 days of my working half-time.

When I calculate under the correct pay period with the information above I have the figures below. As a salary employee hours are not typically used, but to make the math easier to understand I will break the period down into 8 hour days for full time and 4 hour days for half-time.

One month net pay (160 hours) – per email

23rd-31st of July full time @ 8 hours –                56 hours
1st – 22nd of August half time @ 4 hours –                    64 hours
2 weeks @ half time worked in September @ 4 hours -           40 hours
6 hours credit per Michelle for training -                6 hours
9 days vacation pay @ 8 hours -                   72 hours
Total Hours owed for August Pay Period -                238 hours

This is why I had suggested in our verbal agreement  to pay me my normal full time salary for the July 22nd – August 23rd and the additional time I was owed would just have been a courtesy to help make the transition easier to a new person. If you would like to nullify our previous verbal agreement then I am owed the difference in hours of 160-238 or 78 hours.

Thank you for a great opportunity; I really enjoyed my time with the St. Paul’s staff,


Is there anything else I need to put in this email? I know the person sending this does not fully understand payroll as I was the payroll administrator but she is the person who initially agreed to our deal (which again was WAY in their benefit!) Should I call the department of labor and demand to be paid for the time I worked for free now that she has tried to break our agreement?
I'm super stressed here and looking for any advice. Thank you all for your help here.
Part of me wants to just go on a war path with this and do everything I can to take every penny out of this situation out of spite. I was willing to walk away with giving them 70+ hours because I THOUGHT we were on good terms. Guess not.

sheepstache

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 01:20:34 PM »
I wouldn't send the office keys back with it.

kevinb421

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 01:21:56 PM »
I wouldn't send the office keys back with it.

Any reason why? I am using a heavy duty envelope and using certified mail. No way they can dispute not getting them as I will have a return receipt.

innkeeper77

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 01:37:43 PM »
I am so sorry for this situation you are in.. and as someone who has had a be taken advantage of by their church employer, don't let them get away with this! I would get paid for those 70 hours, not just because they broke your agreement, but because no church should feel they should be able to get away with treating their employees badly. I certainly hope your new place of work is better than this!

kevinb421

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 01:39:09 PM »
I am so sorry for this situation you are in.. and as someone who has had a be taken advantage of by their church employer, don't let them get away with this! I would get paid for those 70 hours, not just because they broke your agreement, but because no church should feel they should be able to get away with treating their employees badly. I certainly hope your new place of work is better than this!

Thanks! New place is an RV dealership. While it is hilariously unmustachian it is a pretty great place to work.

sheepstache

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 01:43:42 PM »
I wouldn't send the office keys back with it.

Any reason why? I am using a heavy duty envelope and using certified mail. No way they can dispute not getting them as I will have a return receipt.

I think mailing is fine, I just wouldn't return them until your pay issue is resolved.  Not that it's really leverage for you, just psychologically I think it would make it easier for them to cut you a check for six hours and think of the issue as settled.

KBecks2

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 02:33:58 PM »
Your letter is too long.   They already paid you, it's your money!  Woo hoo!   Just give them a quick summary of the hours you worked.

Don't return any money.

Enjoy your new job /retirement / whatever.


Maybe you want to call them and explain how they're mis calculating it.  It's a misunderstanding, don't be too emotional over it.  And, you already have the money, you are giving nothing back, no stress!!!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 02:36:08 PM by KBecks2 »

sheepstache

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 02:50:54 PM »
Your letter is too long.   They already paid you, it's your money!  Woo hoo!   Just give them a quick summary of the hours you worked.

Don't return any money.

Enjoy your new job /retirement / whatever.


Maybe you want to call them and explain how they're mis calculating it.  It's a misunderstanding, don't be too emotional over it.  And, you already have the money, you are giving nothing back, no stress!!!

Oh duh. I missed that they already paid you! In that case I agree with KBecks and yes go ahead and return the keys.

Elderwood17

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2014, 07:17:02 AM »
You will be fine!  If they come back t you with a counter argument or proposal just reiterate briefly your earlier points and stick to your guns!!

projekt

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2014, 08:04:32 AM »
Tell them to fucking sue you.

Edit: read this - http://pud.com/post/10103947044/fucking-sue-me
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 08:09:11 AM by projekt »

smilla

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2014, 09:13:24 AM »
I think you should send the explanation of your hours but assume both in the letter and in your mind that this was an honest mistake.  You'll feel better and if it is an honest mistake, she does need to know what she did wrong.

Hanlon's Razor:  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I would email the response and drop off the keys in person - certified letter is too unfriendly and email still leaves a record.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 09:20:16 AM by smilla »

CabinetGuy

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »
Tell them to fucking sue you.

Edit: read this - http://pud.com/post/10103947044/fucking-sue-me

And that's why I love this site.  Mustacianism confidence.


trailrated

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 10:51:56 AM »
I think you should send the explanation of your hours but assume both in the letter and in your mind that this was an honest mistake.  You'll feel better and if it is an honest mistake, she does need to know what she did wrong.

Hanlon's Razor:  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

+1

TomTX

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »
Did you spend 6 hours training her, or 6 days? If 6 days, dispute that time too.

They owe you time and should pay it.

If they are nonresponsive, you have a limited time to file with DoL. I was screwed by a former employer and did not make the deadline. Check what it is in your state.

Sarita

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2014, 03:20:07 PM »
Agree with the suggestion to stop by in person.  I like to live by the "assume innocence and positive intent" perspective before getting mad.  If they aren't really aware of the details, it may well just be a mistake.  It's a church, not a business.  Try to leave on a friendlier note than a registered letter.

smalllife

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2014, 04:06:17 PM »
I would make sure to contact your bank in case they try to pull the money back (most payroll companies can) to stop any unauthorized withdrawals.


soccerluvof4

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2014, 05:02:02 AM »
You will be fine!  If they come back t you with a counter argument or proposal just reiterate briefly your earlier points and stick to your guns!!


^+1. Move on. There not going to spend the money to come after you when you have a documented case to argue. Send them the keys, ignore the chatter and move on.

kevinb421

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2014, 07:20:39 AM »
To respond to some of the statements here.

They have ill intent with this, the are upset that I did not train the new person as much as they thought. I trained her for 6 days and she just wasn't getting it. Not sure how that is my fault.
The person who sent the letter said that I was expected to train this person up to their standards and I noped out of there.
They still owe me for 2 weeks of pay, but instead of that are saying that I owe them.

DoubleDown

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2014, 08:43:45 AM »
I think your letter is perfect and you are handling it exactly as it should be. After sending the letter and the keys, I would consider the matter finished and not give it a second thought. I would not go after any additional pay, since your agreement was to be paid as a full time employee and that is what you were paid. Good luck.

ender

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 08:48:23 AM »
This is a good reason why verbal agreements are not good plans for this sort of thing.

Having it in writing of some sorts, even if just email, can go a long way to stopping ridiculous shenanigans like this.

Kansas Beachbum

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2014, 02:14:16 PM »
I like to live by the "assume innocence and positive intent" perspective before getting mad.

I used to like to live with this perspective as well, but at this point in my life I basically trust no one.  I have seen too many instances of people who I believed to be good, decent people turn around and screw someone at the first opportunity.  Family is often the worst.  It's sad, and I don't like that my perspective on people/society has come to this, but it's as a result of watching for years what people will do to each other.  This isn't a church, this is a former employer.  You don't owe them any additional concern than you would any other former employer.  Document that their calculations are incorrect, that they actually owe you money...but it's cool, that the check has been cashed and won't be returned, wish them well and move on. 

kevinb421

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2014, 02:19:12 PM »
They will get my letter tomorrow. I'm very interested to see where it goes from there.
Something tells me the next contact I get from them is from an attorney. The person who is doing this is pretty damn spiteful in nature. Always a redeeming quality for someone in a church!

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Former employer asking for back pay, know they are wrong. HELP
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2014, 09:39:39 PM »
They will get my letter tomorrow. I'm very interested to see where it goes from there.
Something tells me the next contact I get from them is from an attorney. The person who is doing this is pretty damn spiteful in nature. Always a redeeming quality for someone in a church!

There are a lot of dicks in church administration.