Forget $600K, retire on $100K in the Philippines (or other country)

[expatartist]

Hate to say this with or without passport if your skin color does not blend in the country you adopt you will be noticed.

I find this to be a positive when visiting a foreign country; particularly the rural provinces. I become a instant celebrity the minute getting off the plane or trike......

It's a positive when on holiday, or in the short-term; when living in a place day-to-day, it can get old, particularly since many countries have an unfortunate history of colonialism by western powers. Your appearance brings up a host of associations - some negative, others positive - over which you have no control, and few of which you may feel apply to your life.

Thailand may rank high on diversity lists, but 'diversity' in the North American, new world sense does not exist there. DH was so uncomfortable living in Thailand - morally and socially - that we were unable to make a life there together.

[RetiredAt63]

Same here, spring, summer and fall in the Ontario countryside are wonderful.  Winter - well let's just say highs in the -20'sC are not so much fun.  But they keep us tough.  ;-)  And once you get away from the cities, COL is not bad - I paid a lot less for my house, a tow truck is 1/2 the price (I found out the hard way last winter), many services cost less.

I am fine retiring here, but am following the snowbirds thread because I want to find some place that would work for 3-4 months, with a very furry dog.  I need to be here for at least 6 months to maintain OHIP.  I know people who have second homes in the US, and their stay regulations are very difficult to cope with, since they count in months, not days.  This is especially important if you buy instead of renting.  I would also like to blend in, if possible.  Traveling to New Zealand and Australia was wonderful - we blended in until we said something, then people thought our "exotic Canadian accents" were neat.  Actually, anyone thinking our accents were exotic (and I quote) is mind-blowing.

Vikb, is your Baja in California or Mexico? Maps show the upper part is US and the lower part is Mexico.  Warm and dry would be nicer than warm and humid, but warm is good either way.  Dry is easier for the dog.

I don't really want to live some place else permanently, but I love to travel. I want to be at home in BC each year to enjoy the fine summer weather and get my health care sorted.

Since I would keep my place in Canada I'm not saving a ton being in Baja unless I get a short term rental setup, but it's fun and I miss the Canadian winter at low cost.

-- Vik

[iamlindoro]

Vikb, is your Baja in California or Mexico? Maps show the upper part is US and the lower part is Mexico.  Warm and dry would be nicer than warm and humid, but warm is good either way.  Dry is easier for the dog.

Someone might want to tell the US about its new state. ;)

All of Baja belongs to Mexico.

[NotJustDreaming]

We're also interested in slow travel / living abroad in various places for several years. Starting in 2017 we'll pack up our three kids and see what happens. Years ago I read Tim Leffle's World's Cheapest Destinations and have been hooked on the idea since.

Though we'll keep our house and come back to Canada once/if the travel bug wears out. I admire the guts some have to FIRE on a 100k or even 600k stache. Maybe I'd feel differently if we hadn't been brainwashed for so many years thinking you need millions. Now I realize we already have more than enough. I try not to dwell on my 'lost years' that I could have been FIREd. As it is, DH is not 100% converted and won't leave until 2017 but I'm going in the next few months.

Thanks for the link to the blog Tieland to Thailand... I just lost several hours in it.

Love this thread.

[PatStab]

My son has lived and worked in S Korea for over 20 years,  his wife is from Russia.  They can't wait to get back to the US. 

My husband has worked all over the world including Indonesia, you are foolish to give up your American citizenship.  He has friends who own 1/4 million dollars houses in Thailand, they cannot buy the land underneath.  He is constantly being held hostage by having his water turned off and being required to pay money to get it turned back on.  At times he can't use the road to get to his home until he pays money. 

Also there have been times with civil unrest he can't go back to the country for awhile.  Why you think all this is so very romantic and everything is so much better, well folks, wake up and smell the coffee.  Lack of infrastructure, social services and other services only available to the very wealthy might be a real surprise.  The pollution and the corruption is very bad in so many other countries. 

Also in the Phillipines and many Asian countries there are big issues with islamist rebels, there is a lot of insecurity.  Think very carefully before you abandon America.

[NICE!]

I find this to be a positive when visiting a foreign country; particularly the rural provinces. I become a instant celebrity the minute getting off the plane or trike......

I find that it gets old after a month or two. I have to tell children "c'est pas un zoo et je suis pas un animal" (this isn't a zoo and I'm not an animal) on a pretty regular basis.

[iamlindoro]

My son has lived and worked in S Korea for over 20 years,  his wife is from Russia.  They can't wait to get back to the US. 

My husband has worked all over the world including Indonesia, you are foolish to give up your American citizenship.  He has friends who own 1/4 million dollars houses in Thailand, they cannot buy the land underneath.  He is constantly being held hostage by having his water turned off and being required to pay money to get it turned back on.  At times he can't use the road to get to his home until he pays money. 

Also there have been times with civil unrest he can't go back to the country for awhile.  Why you think all this is so very romantic and everything is so much better, well folks, wake up and smell the coffee.  Lack of infrastructure, social services and other services only available to the very wealthy might be a real surprise.  The pollution and the corruption is very bad in so many other countries. 

Also in the Phillipines and many Asian countries there are big issues with islamist rebels, there is a lot of insecurity.  Think very carefully before you abandon America.

OK, so off the bat, I'll acknowledge that there are some countries where corruption, land ownership issues, and safety concerns are real.  There's no doubt about that.  I'm sorry your son has had this experience and hope they find someplace they feel safe and happy soon.

That said, this is an anecdote, not real data.  Equally anecdotally, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans safely and happily enjoying retirement in low cost of living countries, with little or no issues.

Regarding "big issues with islamist rebels," my response here would be that our media vastly overestimates the scope of unrest in most countries.  Example: I went to Egypt late last month/early this month.  We experienced nothing but calm in our travels, no interference from government officials, no violence or protests, and generous and kind behavior from everyone we met, even when doing the "haggle our way out of foreigner prices" thing.  They found an improvised explosive device in the airport the day we left, and there was a bombing killing two locals in Alexandria, where we had been a couple days before. 

Are these facts scary, and should they remind one to maintain awareness and caution?  Yes, absolutely!  However, in speaking to a lot of locals, they likened the fact that this kind of thing appears in our news to stories painting New York City as a crime ridden hellhole where you're likely to be robbed and killed in their own.  The media blows some issues completely out of proportion because it gets ratings.  In my own city (one of America's safest large cities) there is a bomb squad and improvised explosives are regularly found and destroyed, because people are crazy.  That doesn't make local news, let alone international news.  The point I'm trying to make is that we should be aware of media reports of unrest, but that it should not prevent us from visiting or even living places.

Further, there are a lot of countries that are stable, relatively low corruption (or at least at acceptable levels when it comes to foreigners), AND inexpensive.  Each person has to evaluate their own comfort level and I agree with the idea that trying a place out before moving there is prudent.  I just don't think we should write off living in a place because it's challenging, and I think we owe it to ourselves to at least try to disentangle the reality from the media bias of countries that have real problems, but real merit too.

[PatStab]

Heavens he feels safe there, even living 12 miles from the DMC, he doesn't hate it he has enjoyed it but they are tired of the pollution, crowding, and bitter cold winters. Korea is a developed country but he does not want to retire there by any means. American type housing is very expensive, the place before they lived the rent was $3500 a month.  They can afford to live there because his rent is paid.  But they are just ready to come home, been a long time and now they are going to have a baby.

[Albert]

Out of curiosity what's wrong with Korean type housing? I assume in such a rich country it is of decent standard.

[PatStab]

He has lived in a lot of Korean housing.  The electrical and plumbing left something to be desired.  The current is different also.  He said the light bills were very high and many they lived in had lots of problems.
Initially he had problems with the language too, he has a lot of Korean friends and they helped him later.

The DOD cut their housing allowance so they are back in an apartment, he said the Koreans all like to live packed in apartments, if you like that I guess its ok. I believe the one they are living in now is newer so pretty nice, I haven't asked him about it. I know there was one that had the washer on the balcony and no dryer and no ac.

There aren't a lot of stand alone houses, they lived in some with mold and all kinds of issues and he really prefers stand alone.  His wife on the other hand grew up in Russia in a 1 bedroom apartment I think she said with her sister, mom, and dad so she is used to apartments. Also they live in ones that are almost all Korean families and they are not treated badly  just ignored for the most part.  I asked him why he didn't buy, I may be in error but I thought he said about $300k would buy a house.  We haven't talked about it for awhile so not sure now.

[Adventine]

My son has lived and worked in S Korea for over 20 years,  his wife is from Russia.  They can't wait to get back to the US. 

My husband has worked all over the world including Indonesia, you are foolish to give up your American citizenship.  He has friends who own 1/4 million dollars houses in Thailand, they cannot buy the land underneath.  He is constantly being held hostage by having his water turned off and being required to pay money to get it turned back on.  At times he can't use the road to get to his home until he pays money. 

Also there have been times with civil unrest he can't go back to the country for awhile.  Why you think all this is so very romantic and everything is so much better, well folks, wake up and smell the coffee.  Lack of infrastructure, social services and other services only available to the very wealthy might be a real surprise.  The pollution and the corruption is very bad in so many other countries. 

Also in the Phillipines and many Asian countries there are big issues with islamist rebels, there is a lot of insecurity.  Think very carefully before you abandon America.

OK, so off the bat, I'll acknowledge that there are some countries where corruption, land ownership issues, and safety concerns are real.  There's no doubt about that.  I'm sorry your son has had this experience and hope they find someplace they feel safe and happy soon.

That said, this is an anecdote, not real data.  Equally anecdotally, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans safely and happily enjoying retirement in low cost of living countries, with little or no issues.

Regarding "big issues with islamist rebels," my response here would be that our media vastly overestimates the scope of unrest in most countries.  Example: I went to Egypt late last month/early this month.  We experienced nothing but calm in our travels, no interference from government officials, no violence or protests, and generous and kind behavior from everyone we met, even when doing the "haggle our way out of foreigner prices" thing.  They found an improvised explosive device in the airport the day we left, and there was a bombing killing two locals in Alexandria, where we had been a couple days before. 

Are these facts scary, and should they remind one to maintain awareness and caution?  Yes, absolutely!  However, in speaking to a lot of locals, they likened the fact that this kind of thing appears in our news to stories painting New York City as a crime ridden hellhole where you're likely to be robbed and killed in their own.  The media blows some issues completely out of proportion because it gets ratings.  In my own city (one of America's safest large cities) there is a bomb squad and improvised explosives are regularly found and destroyed, because people are crazy.  That doesn't make local news, let alone international news.  The point I'm trying to make is that we should be aware of media reports of unrest, but that it should not prevent us from visiting or even living places.

Further, there are a lot of countries that are stable, relatively low corruption (or at least at acceptable levels when it comes to foreigners), AND inexpensive.  Each person has to evaluate their own comfort level and I agree with the idea that trying a place out before moving there is prudent.  I just don't think we should write off living in a place because it's challenging, and I think we owe it to ourselves to at least try to disentangle the reality from the media bias of countries that have real problems, but real merit too.

+1000. The developed areas of Luzon (where I live) and Visayas don't have "big issues with islamist rebels." Obviously it's a problem in a very specific region of the Philippines called the ARMM (Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao), which doesn't represent the entire country.

Violence and sex sell, which is why the media reports make the problem sound so bad.

[Punchingat50]

My son has lived and worked in S Korea for over 20 years,  his wife is from Russia.  They can't wait to get back to the US. 

My husband has worked all over the world including Indonesia, you are foolish to give up your American citizenship.  He has friends who own 1/4 million dollars houses in Thailand, they cannot buy the land underneath.  He is constantly being held hostage by having his water turned off and being required to pay money to get it turned back on.  At times he can't use the road to get to his home until he pays money. 

Also there have been times with civil unrest he can't go back to the country for awhile.  Why you think all this is so very romantic and everything is so much better, well folks, wake up and smell the coffee.  Lack of infrastructure, social services and other services only available to the very wealthy might be a real surprise.  The pollution and the corruption is very bad in so many other countries. 

Also in the Phillipines and many Asian countries there are big issues with islamist rebels, there is a lot of insecurity.  Think very carefully before you abandon America.

OK, so off the bat, I'll acknowledge that there are some countries where corruption, land ownership issues, and safety concerns are real.  There's no doubt about that.  I'm sorry your son has had this experience and hope they find someplace they feel safe and happy soon.

That said, this is an anecdote, not real data.  Equally anecdotally, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans safely and happily enjoying retirement in low cost of living countries, with little or no issues.

Regarding "big issues with islamist rebels," my response here would be that our media vastly overestimates the scope of unrest in most countries.  Example: I went to Egypt late last month/early this month.  We experienced nothing but calm in our travels, no interference from government officials, no violence or protests, and generous and kind behavior from everyone we met, even when doing the "haggle our way out of foreigner prices" thing.  They found an improvised explosive device in the airport the day we left, and there was a bombing killing two locals in Alexandria, where we had been a couple days before. 

Are these facts scary, and should they remind one to maintain awareness and caution?  Yes, absolutely!  However, in speaking to a lot of locals, they likened the fact that this kind of thing appears in our news to stories painting New York City as a crime ridden hellhole where you're likely to be robbed and killed in their own.  The media blows some issues completely out of proportion because it gets ratings.  In my own city (one of America's safest large cities) there is a bomb squad and improvised explosives are regularly found and destroyed, because people are crazy.  That doesn't make local news, let alone international news.  The point I'm trying to make is that we should be aware of media reports of unrest, but that it should not prevent us from visiting or even living places.

Further, there are a lot of countries that are stable, relatively low corruption (or at least at acceptable levels when it comes to foreigners), AND inexpensive.  Each person has to evaluate their own comfort level and I agree with the idea that trying a place out before moving there is prudent.  I just don't think we should write off living in a place because it's challenging, and I think we owe it to ourselves to at least try to disentangle the reality from the media bias of countries that have real problems, but real merit too.

+1000. The developed areas of Luzon (where I live) and Visayas don't have "big issues with islamist rebels." Obviously it's a problem in a very specific region of the Philippines called the ARMM (Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao), which doesn't represent the entire country.

Violence and sex sell, which is why the media reports make the problem sound so bad.

THIS ^^. I used to believe what the western media told me about foreign countries....until I went to a few. Now I tune them out.

P.S. I'll be in Luzon this weekend. I'm out of the matrix!

[kyith]

One thing I'm thinking seriously about is ultimately getting a citizenship in one of these countries and rescinding my US one. Of course that's a ways down the road,  but as the US both declines and stretches its arms out around the world to grab your money, holding a US citizenship becomes more and more of a negative.

The only country is SEA that is relatively easy to get citizenship is Singapore.  The rest, not so much.  E.g. having an Indonesian spouse only gives you the right to live in Indonesia, doesn't give you right to live there or buy property, same with Thailand.

things might have change a fair bit in the last year. citizenship might not be so easy to get. pr is ok but u can only buy a flat after staying for 3 years. singaporean here.