The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Wekeeprollingdowntheroad on December 04, 2016, 11:00:49 AM
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How many here are a couple with no children, and plan on keeping it that way?
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http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/any-other-childfree-by-choice-people-like-me/msg496208/#msg496208
Might be some answers in this thread.
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That other thread predates my arrival on the board, but we are CF by choice.
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Yup. I got sterilized almost a decade ago, long before we even met. Might I add, being snipped is also a GREAT screening tool for finding out whether the person you're going on a date with actually doesn't want kids. A lot of people pretend to be childfree and assume you'll change your mind if you're not sterilized.
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Yup. I got sterilized almost a decade ago, long before we even met. Might I add, being snipped is also a GREAT screening tool for finding out whether the person you're going on a date with actually doesn't want kids. A lot of people pretend to be childfree and assume you'll change your mind if you're not sterilized.
Yep, similar here - tubal ligation around 8 years ago. He also got a vasectomy before we met. So we're sure and committed to childfree on both sides. It was a great relief to each other, as I agree with Zikoris that someone might think you will change your mind, or they may change their mind if they haven't had the surgery done.
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Potentially procreative sexual intercourse is not the only way to get "kids". Among other options, there is also adoption. If somebody is inclined to change his or her mind about the merits of raising children, nothing is stopping them from proposing an adoption. Sterilisation does not prove that you will never want to raise kids, and should not provide any relief in that regard to prospective partners.
Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
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No children by choice. Married 37 years, so we definitely didn't change our minds.
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Husband and I are confirmed childfree. I have a consultation in January to get a bilateral salpingectomy. Husband is open to a vasectomy, but I'm a bit of a control freak and want the peace of mind that comes with knowing there's zero chance I will wind up pregnant.
I'm not going to lie, the financial impact of raising kids is a high up factor in my decision not to have them. Others include that all of the moms I work with seem pretty miserable having to balance care for their kids with 40+ hour/week jobs, enjoying sleep, and a complete lack of interest in having to entertain or care a helpless person in my free time. Plus my husband is generally just overwhelmed by keeping himself alive and it seems unfair to foist the life of another person on him (he's on the spectrum).
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Potentially procreative sexual intercourse is not the only way to get "kids". Among other options, there is also adoption. If somebody is inclined to change his or her mind about the merits of raising children, nothing is stopping them from proposing an adoption. Sterilisation does not prove that you will never want to raise kids, and should not provide any relief in that regard to prospective partners.
Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
I suppose it's not impossible, but someone would have to be either a complete idiot or incredibly desperate if they wanted kids but chose to date someone who DIDN'T want kids enough to voluntarily sterilize themselves. In my experience, being sterilized is an EXTREMELY effective screening method for dating.
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We will most likely never have any kids. That ship sailed years ago when I decided to go back to school, it would be irresponsible with the massive student loan debt. Only a few years from debt free, but she is older than me and her clock is ticking, along with the thoughts of being "older" parents and likely no shot at FIRE if we have kids... It could change if finances change, but most likely no kids here. We've accepted it as a consequence of choices we've both made previously, namely my bad decision to go to college.
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Potentially procreative sexual intercourse is not the only way to get "kids". Among other options, there is also adoption. If somebody is inclined to change his or her mind about the merits of raising children, nothing is stopping them from proposing an adoption. Sterilisation does not prove that you will never want to raise kids, and should not provide any relief in that regard to prospective partners.
Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
Cathy, did you just make a wildly funny joke?
:-)
I agree with the general thread, that a woman getting tubal ligation shows commitment to a decision. In hindsight, I am very glad that I did, and will never regret it (although it was after having the kids that i intended, it was when I was 31 years old, and well inside child bearing years)
Although Cathy's suggestion is true, I find that I lose my intelligent thinking when in the mood... go figure.
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Well, we were child free til age 39 and then we adopted 16 now 17 year old twins. They've lived with us for 1.5 years already and should be gone in 2-4 more. Yes, they did cause a slight delay in the mustache life but it's nice because we only have to do the parent thing for like 5 years and then we are done. Just a different version of how things could go for all you childless planners.
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We be.
We never took measures to not have kids, yet it never happened over 20 years. Not sure why, but we have no problem with that whatsoever.
Family feels sorry for us.
One of my friends with two kids calls me a lucky bastard.
The world seems a pretty harsh place. I think I would feel guilty bringing an innocent kid into it for what I feel is largely a selfish act when done intentionally.
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I'm 25 and have expressed my deep desire to my GF on not having kids. She's rather vocal on the topic too her sister had two kids before 20 and she's spent a lot of time with them, pretty much turned her off of having them.
So that's good.
I heard where I live that "most" doctors wont sterilize a healthy young male with no children unless it's causing health problems. But that's just what the guys at work say.
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Childfree here, and staying that way. A time decision rather than a cost decision.
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Married for 14 years and child free by choice!
We were both neutral on the subject when we got together but not having them has allowed our life to grow into something I could have never imagined. I don't regret the decision at all.
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Together for over 6 years, child free, and staying that way.
2 above average incomes with no kids in the picture is a wonderful thing in terms of FIRE.
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Child free by choice too and loving it :) I've always felt that I wouldn't have kids and fortunate I feel to meet someone who feels the same. Very happy with our life choices.
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Married almost 32 years and childfree by choice. Best decision I made, outside of choosing my spouse.
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As a gay married couple, we of course can't have kids the normal way. That being said neither one of us wants kids and now that we're in our 40s, we're too old even if we wanted to change our minds.
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Another childfree by choice couple here. I always thought I'd have kids, but after meeting my now-fiance and learning that he really didn't/doesn't want kids, the obvious became clear to me... I don't have to have kids just because it's what people do. If I really wanted kids, I certainly wouldn't let finances get in the way (within reason -- obviously I'd want to have enough to responsibly care for them and would make sacrifices elsewhere in my life to do so), but not wanting them certainly does help with FIRE.
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Childfree by choice here. I have never wanted children, never even an inkling of wanting them. Now-Husband and I started dating at 17 and he doesn't want children either. He will likely get a vasectomy sometime this year.
It can be a very frustrating topic to discuss with others, particularly other women. If I had a dime for every time I've heard "you'll change your mind," I'd be FIREd by now!
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It can be a very frustrating topic to discuss with others, particularly other women. If I had a dime for every time I've heard "you'll change your mind," I'd be FIREd by now!
Yes, me too. Even women younger than me (with children) are getting in on the act. And 'society' says that it's 'inappropriate' for me to tell them how much they'll wish they could take a last minute holiday or go on a date without looking for a child minder.
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It can be a very frustrating topic to discuss with others, particularly other women. If I had a dime for every time I've heard "you'll change your mind," I'd be FIREd by now!
Meh - just look down and say "I can't." Gets them to back off REAL quick in my experience.
Is it lying? Yep. But I justify it by telling myself they shouldn't be all up in my uterus anyway :p
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It can be a very frustrating topic to discuss with others, particularly other women. If I had a dime for every time I've heard "you'll change your mind," I'd be FIREd by now!
Yes, me too. Even women younger than me (with children) are getting in on the act. And 'society' says that it's 'inappropriate' for me to tell them how much they'll wish they could take a last minute holiday or go on a date without looking for a child minder.
Basically my entire job is being organized and getting other people to actually do work, so I get a lot of "you'd be a great mom!" at the office. I just remind them that I get paid to do it here. Why would I do it for free?
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Childfree by choice here. I have never wanted children, never even an inkling of wanting them. Now-Husband and I started dating at 17 and he doesn't want children either. He will likely get a vasectomy sometime this year.
It can be a very frustrating topic to discuss with others, particularly other women. If I had a dime for every time I've heard "you'll change your mind," I'd be FIREd by now!
I'm sorry please don't kick me out...
I never really wanted kids either. I constantly heard "you'll change your mind". (I have two kids. My husband was very persuasive and stubborn. I love them dearly. I don't regret a single minute. Actually husband talked me into #1 and #1 talked me into #2, but I digress...)
Had my husband been "ambivalent" or "anti-kid" then we both would have gone happily along without kids. I still believe that. I have many many friends who fall into that category - from ambivalent to didn't-want-kids.
I don't know why people insist you are going to change your mind. Why why why? (Sometimes people do, but the few people I know who fall into that category were with an unsuitable partner. A suitable partner changed the equation. But that's pretty rare.)
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Child free too...never wanted them. When I was a kid, all my friends babysat for extra money...I mowed lawns. I thought kids were horrible back then and nothing has changed. My 2 "kids" have 4 legs!
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Potentially procreative sexual intercourse is not the only way to get "kids". Among other options, there is also adoption. If somebody is inclined to change his or her mind about the merits of raising children, nothing is stopping them from proposing an adoption. Sterilisation does not prove that you will never want to raise kids, and should not provide any relief in that regard to prospective partners.
Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
You can't adopt by accident. Not many people choose to be completely celibate and a vasectomy is pretty good birth control if you abstain for up to 6 months, after that period the pregnancy rate for women with men who have had a vasectomy is really low. Oh and no kids for me and never will. I like them fine but just for a few hours, way too much work.
Some friends recently asked me if I and my girlfriend were planning on having kids, I told them that I like getting up at 8 or 9 on the weekend and then decide hey I'll go for a run or just laze around. Or maybe I'll get up early and go for a hike. Then at 2 go see a movie, then grab a burger. Or maybe do absolutely nothing all day. Can I do that with kids?
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No kids for this couple. I've never felt a maternal instinct, but very fond of certain children belonging to friends and family! Fond enough that we have agreed to raise certain children should the worst happen (and would do it well and gladly in the unlikely event).
Thankfully both my family and the family I married into have never made an issue about it. No regrets here.
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When I met DW she was very adamant that she didn't want children. I was in the undecided camp, now after ten years my parenting instincts have died out.
Also turning 40 in just a year and for me that is too old to start a family.
Now I just need to spend my life with DW and travel all over the world, until such time as love, luck or life runs out :)
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No kids by choice, and I'm 41 an I think I'm entering menopause.
I have never once regretted it. I adore my life, and many of the parts I adore most would be very different or impossible with children in my life.
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Instead of telling them I can't have children or anything, whenever someone asks me if we're trying for children I look at my watch and go "yes, actually we need to go try right now" and walk away.
Another favorite when someone asks about children is to respond "Are you familiar with the Duggar family? That's what we're hoping for."
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I loved it when people told me that I would like it if I tried it. I would reply: "What I hear you saying is that I should go to prison for 18 years because I might enjoy it."
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http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38145118
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Meh - just look down and say "I can't." Gets them to back off REAL quick in my experience.
Haha. I can imagine the embarrassed faces. Serves them right for making it their business what isn't. I also love the other funny responses people have in this thread.
We're dual income, no kids, and planning to keep it that way. I'm not so sure the world needs more people. To quote Bill Burr, "In the way people." He has a bit where this person is describing all of the their kids and grandkids numbering in the dozens. "That's not a family photo. That's an environmental disaster and you framed it."
Edit: I'll clarify to say it is good that people do have kids, just not to the extent that they're having them. And it's especially bad to be nosy and tell others to have them.
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How many here are a couple with no children, and plan on keeping it that way?
No kids. I'm willing to keep trying, but the vasectomy could be an issue. ;)
I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
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I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
^^This.
Personally I'd like to see a world in greater balance where the number of births equals (or is less than) the number of people who pass away. Then, rather than development being necessary to continually accommodate all the new people, it could be more focused on improving life for the population already here.
Rather than sprawl and continuing to build new tracts of dwellings, new schools, new infrastructure, for example, resources could be spent improving what we already have.
This is not to say stop making new people, just do it in a more sustainable way. Presently, the world's population doubles what, every 50yrs?
I'm willing to relinquish my single baby quota to another couple who feels they must procreate beyond theirs.
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Married 20 years and we're childfree by choice as well. I think of kids like elephants - they might be fun for a little while, but I don't want one in my freaking living room. And I sure as hell don't want to be financially responsible for one :)
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Childfree by choice at 38 (female); my (male) partner is a few years younger.
If I'd gotten married or whatever when I was younger I probably would have had kids (heck, even if I had had the job/salary I have now when I was 30 I might have had a kid on my own), and I think that would be OK too. After watching so many of my friends and family raise their kids and seeing the good things and the bad things (sometimes really, really bad things) that can happen, I'm not interested in changing the status quo.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/233305820425459/
If anyone is interested, here is a link to a Childfree Mustachian FaceBook group.
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I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
^^This.
Personally I'd like to see a world in greater balance where the number of births equals (or is less than) the number of people who pass away. Then, rather than development being necessary to continually accommodate all the new people, it could be more focused on improving life for the population already here.
Rather than sprawl and continuing to build new tracts of dwellings, new schools, new infrastructure, for example, resources could be spent improving what we already have.
This is not to say stop making new people, just do it in a more sustainable way. Presently, the world's population doubles what, every 50yrs?
I'm willing to relinquish my single baby quota to another couple who feels they must procreate beyond theirs.
You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
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I'm 25 and have expressed my deep desire to my GF on not having kids. She's rather vocal on the topic too her sister had two kids before 20 and she's spent a lot of time with them, pretty much turned her off of having them.
So that's good.
I heard where I live that "most" doctors wont sterilize a healthy young male with no children unless it's causing health problems. But that's just what the guys at work say.
I'm in my 50s. I "heard" the same thing. But when I actually asked, there were zero problems. I believe I was about 22-23 when I had it done.
For the vast majority of people, it's extremely trouble free. It took me 5 minutes from start to end (and that included shaking the doctor's hand, making chit-chat, having him wash up, etc. The worst part is the local anesthetic. Once you're past that, it's nothing.
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How many here are a couple with no children, and plan on keeping it that way?
Check.
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I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
^^This.
Personally I'd like to see a world in greater balance where the number of births equals (or is less than) the number of people who pass away. Then, rather than development being necessary to continually accommodate all the new people, it could be more focused on improving life for the population already here.
Rather than sprawl and continuing to build new tracts of dwellings, new schools, new infrastructure, for example, resources could be spent improving what we already have.
This is not to say stop making new people, just do it in a more sustainable way. Presently, the world's population doubles what, every 50yrs?
I'm willing to relinquish my single baby quota to another couple who feels they must procreate beyond theirs.
You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
For me, it's less how much effect my individual act has on the broader scale, than it is feeling individually helpless to do ANYTHING that has an effect. Among things I can individually take action on, there's the flying less, driving less, consuming less, eating vegetarian, voting, etc. But given that each person added to a first world economy consumes a metric fuckton more resources just by existing than any kid added to the developing world, each kid I don't have is the more effective as a single action than any other thing I can do. (Also this planet has far too many people now, IMO, but that's quite a different topic, and is much more subjective).
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I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
^^This.
Personally I'd like to see a world in greater balance where the number of births equals (or is less than) the number of people who pass away. Then, rather than development being necessary to continually accommodate all the new people, it could be more focused on improving life for the population already here.
Rather than sprawl and continuing to build new tracts of dwellings, new schools, new infrastructure, for example, resources could be spent improving what we already have.
This is not to say stop making new people, just do it in a more sustainable way. Presently, the world's population doubles what, every 50yrs?
I'm willing to relinquish my single baby quota to another couple who feels they must procreate beyond theirs.
You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
For me, it's less how much effect my individual act has on the broader scale, than it is feeling individually helpless to do ANYTHING that has an effect. Among things I can individually take action on, there's the flying less, driving less, consuming less, eating vegetarian, voting, etc. But given that each person added to a first world economy consumes a metric fuckton more resources just by existing than any kid added to the developing world, each kid I don't have is the more effective as a single action than any other thing I can do. (Also this planet has far too many people now, IMO, but that's quite a different topic, and is much more subjective).
The already reduced fertile rate in the developed world is currently starting to throw up huge challenges, the need to replace by increased immigration is not working out well in Europe and with the falling rate In places like Mexico trump might not be needing a wall very soon, maybe in the future your ideal world will materialize but not likely in our lifetimes and not without a huge amount of pain in the interm both financial and cultural.
Anyway we digress, but a reduction of kids been born in the developed world has been underway for some time and cannot always be judged as positive, or at least I see no need to canvass for a further reduction
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You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
Think about it. I could have 1, 2, 3, 4+ kids. I'm having none. That will definitely have an immediate impact on the planet. There are already far too many humans on this planet. We need a negative growth rate and to drop the population by several billion. That's gotta happen by people making a environmentally responsible decision.
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26 married with no kids. We might have them in our early 30s but it's up for debate. I don't really want any now, but the 30 year old version of me might have different plans.
In the meantime, I'll push for FIRE... (4 to 6 years woo!)
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You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
Think about it. I could have 1, 2, 3, 4+ kids. I'm having none. That will definitely have an immediate impact on the planet. There are already far too many humans on this planet. We need a negative growth rate and to drop the population by several billion. That's gotta happen by people making a environmentally responsible decision.
I disagree, the really responsible thing to do is to increase the fertility rate in the west to a level which sustains existing populations alongside education and investment in the developing economies which will reduce the rate there to similar sustainable levels, The situation now with the falling rates in the west and the subsequent need for replacement via immigration is leading to a very volatile world, a world where little johnnies carbon footprint may be the least of our worries
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we are child free
Current NW 550k 400k invested
Trying to start a family right now ... like just started trying.
should have 550-600k invested by the time of first kid and almost 750k NW
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I never wanted kids and it looks to me like the last thing this planet needs is more humans. So as part of my personal environmental responsibility plan I am doing the one thing which will have more impact than all the other decisions I could make combined - having no kids.
^^This.
Personally I'd like to see a world in greater balance where the number of births equals (or is less than) the number of people who pass away. Then, rather than development being necessary to continually accommodate all the new people, it could be more focused on improving life for the population already here.
Rather than sprawl and continuing to build new tracts of dwellings, new schools, new infrastructure, for example, resources could be spent improving what we already have.
This is not to say stop making new people, just do it in a more sustainable way. Presently, the world's population doubles what, every 50yrs?
I'm willing to relinquish my single baby quota to another couple who feels they must procreate beyond theirs.
You do realize that the developed world has a fertility rate well below replacement and the developing world rate is reducing , with a projected peak in world population around 2060. It might make you feel better but you choice will not likely have any effect on saving the environment 🙄
For me, it's less how much effect my individual act has on the broader scale, than it is feeling individually helpless to do ANYTHING that has an effect. Among things I can individually take action on, there's the flying less, driving less, consuming less, eating vegetarian, voting, etc. But given that each person added to a first world economy consumes a metric fuckton more resources just by existing than any kid added to the developing world, each kid I don't have is the more effective as a single action than any other thing I can do. (Also this planet has far too many people now, IMO, but that's quite a different topic, and is much more subjective).
The already reduced fertile rate in the developed world is currently starting to throw up huge challenges, the need to replace by increased immigration is not working out well in Europe and with the falling rate In places like Mexico trump might not be needing a wall very soon, maybe in the future your ideal world will materialize but not likely in our lifetimes and not without a huge amount of pain in the interm both financial and cultural.
Anyway we digress, but a reduction of kids been born in the developed world has been underway for some time and cannot always be judged as positive, or at least I see no need to canvass for a further reduction
I don't actually disagree with this. Short term consequences for individual countries' financial and political stability etc with too quick a population reduction can be problematic. It's a tradeoff...I want FAR fewer people to inhabit the planet, but of course if massive political destabilization occurs in the process that results in nuclear war (or lots of any kind of war, really), and wreaks further havoc on natural resources; or alternatively, if socio-political stressors are such that the countries decide on policies that fuck over the environment even more for short term gain, then we've not actually helped the long term situation. Logically, we should aim for a gradual reduction to replacement rate or very slightly below. But that doesn't mean I personally (or the many members of my family that have opted out of child-rearing) should reproduce. Currently, there are plenty of immigrants and plenty of our friends and peers having that 3+ kid to make up for us, and I feel slightly less guilt than I otherwise would. So it's all good.
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... a world where little johnnies carbon footprint may be the least of our worries
Every problem this planet has is due to Little Johnny and his footprint.
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We're kid free by choice as well. I never liked them, never wanted them, and have no maternal instinct whatsoever. My husband would have gone either way until he turned 40 and came solidly over to the kid free side deeming himself too old. My brother has three and I try to be a good aunt to them, but find it challenging.
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Well, we were child free til age 39 and then we adopted 16 now 17 year old twins. They've lived with us for 1.5 years already and should be gone in 2-4 more. Yes, they did cause a slight delay in the mustache life but it's nice because we only have to do the parent thing for like 5 years and then we are done. Just a different version of how things could go for all you childless planners.
God bless you and yours for doing that - you're making a real difference in this world. My kids were adopted at older ages (but not 16!).
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We've been married 18 years - married at 36 & 46. Decided to go with 2 cats, and we "borrow" the kids! Has worked out great for us! We actually have always been very close with our young nieces/nephews. We call them the "'kids we never had!" Have spoiled them over the years - fun slumber parties, dinners out, vacations, etc. Win-win for everyone! Their parents get a break, we get our kid fix & our sleep! ;-)
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Kid-free! I too get my kid fix by spending time with nieces and nephews. Their parents have done an excellent job of raising them. I've seen how hard it is and how rewarding it is for them and I don't regret my decision. My ex-husband didn't want kids so much he got a vasectomy. I just got married recently to my soulmate who doesn't want kids either so I'm all set! My family is very supportive of my decision which helps a lot. My sister actually vehemently repeatedly has convinced me not to have kids. My brother says don't have them unless you really really really want them. My mom doesn't even pressure me to have kids. She was pressured at a young age to get married and have kids because of the culture she grew up in and I don't think she wants do to the same thing to me. My mother-in-law is a different story. I over heard her telling her friend that she plans to have another granddaughter and already has a name picked out for her! I assume she thinks it is coming from me since my sister in law already has 3 kids and is not planning on anymore. This will be interesting...
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I'm (somewhat) thankful other people have children.
I'm far more thankful I don't have any of my own.
Sometimes I feel a little guilty that I don't like being around kids / babies at all.
My sister actually asked if I'd be a guardian of her children in case of a tragic event. I declined as politely as I could. It was awkward. I may have seen my life flash before my eyes.
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I should also add that I have the impression that the world is not becoming a nicer place to live. There is a lot of war going on and there is more aggression overall in society. We humans are killing the planet by our pollution and by our sheer numbers. I have never felt comfortable about the idea of setting new children on this planet. I am just very pessimistic about this. I hope the planet will last my lifetime, but I'm not sure it will be a good place to live after another 100 years or so.
Thanks for sharing your story. As a couple from the U.S., we feel exactly the same.
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So nice to hear from so many who share my basic views and choices.
Keeping my life and those of my DW and dogs going is challenging enough (and is often grand) without kids. The lives of my friends with kids, all smart, capable and well off, look mostly like hell to me. Many of them have great kids, and gain a lot of meaning in their lives from having them, but I can't go there.
I too bristle at the cultural norms to have kids, and that tends to reinforce my not wanting to have them.
I agree that the biggest problem our planet faces is overpopulation, and I don't want to contribute to that.
DW changed her mind and wanted kids badly for some time, and that caused some pretty dark times in our relationship, causing both of us real anguish (her not getting kids, me preventing her from getting something she really wanted). I think we are well past that now, and but it continues to motivate me to demonstrate that life without kids is a good thing.
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My mother-in-law is a different story. I over heard her telling her friend that she plans to have another granddaughter and already has a name picked out for her! I assume she thinks it is coming from me since my sister in law already has 3 kids and is not planning on anymore. This will be interesting...
How terribly invasive she is, even picking names for grandchildren. Does she really not realize that she has had her chance to get more children?
Both my mother and MIL asked us many years ago if we had planned to get children and got very disappointed with the answers. Luckily for them both my brother and my BIL have both produced grandchildren. So the grandparents stopped bothering us.
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Potentially procreative sexual intercourse is not the only way to get "kids". Among other options, there is also adoption. If somebody is inclined to change his or her mind about the merits of raising children, nothing is stopping them from proposing an adoption. Sterilisation does not prove that you will never want to raise kids, and should not provide any relief in that regard to prospective partners.
Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
This is my current practice. Celibacy keeps one's life so much simpler and free of strife. I plan on remaining child free for my entire life, unless I meet someone with whom I'm particularly motivated to settle down with and procreate. But I doubt my feelings will change on the matter.
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DW changed her mind and wanted kids badly for some time, and that caused some pretty dark times in our relationship, causing both of us real anguish (her not getting kids, me preventing her from getting something she really wanted). I think we are well past that now, and but it continues to motivate me to demonstrate that life without kids is a good thing.
This can be a source of stress for sure. I have an acquaintance (family friend) who wanted children, badly. She was dating a neighbor with teenagers. He was separated from his wife but not divorced. Her family constantly told her to "dump him" as he was 10 years older and was very clear he was not having more children.
Her friends said "it's your decision. You know he doesn't want them, and you do. You get to choose whether to stay with him or not."
Well, angst and all, she talked him into having a kid, right around when she was 40 and he was 50. But I think they made a "deal", in which he said "fine, have a kid, but I'm not doing ANYTHING". And he's stuck to it. Here we are, 6-7 years later. They have two young boys, badly behaved. And he honestly doesn't lift a finger. Whenever the kids need something "where is your mother?" I think the 20-something year old older brothers are way more helpful. It's very sad. I only get to see it every couple of years, but this summer was particularly awful. Most of the family thinks they are headed for divorce. I'm not even sure they are married - but he did eventually divorce his first wife.
I feel very sad for the kids I guess. She's a great mom, but she is worn so thin right now from essentially being a single parent and working full time. Her parents were right on this one.
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DW changed her mind and wanted kids badly for some time, and that caused some pretty dark times in our relationship, causing both of us real anguish (her not getting kids, me preventing her from getting something she really wanted). I think we are well past that now, and but it continues to motivate me to demonstrate that life without kids is a good thing.
This can be a source of stress for sure. I have an acquaintance (family friend) who wanted children, badly. She was dating a neighbor with teenagers. He was separated from his wife but not divorced. Her family constantly told her to "dump him" as he was 10 years older and was very clear he was not having more children.
Her friends said "it's your decision. You know he doesn't want them, and you do. You get to choose whether to stay with him or not."
Well, angst and all, she talked him into having a kid, right around when she was 40 and he was 50. But I think they made a "deal", in which he said "fine, have a kid, but I'm not doing ANYTHING". And he's stuck to it. Here we are, 6-7 years later. They have two young boys, badly behaved. And he honestly doesn't lift a finger. Whenever the kids need something "where is your mother?" I think the 20-something year old older brothers are way more helpful. It's very sad. I only get to see it every couple of years, but this summer was particularly awful. Most of the family thinks they are headed for divorce. I'm not even sure they are married - but he did eventually divorce his first wife.
I feel very sad for the kids I guess. She's a great mom, but she is worn so thin right now from essentially being a single parent and working full time. Her parents were right on this one.
Yikes. I guess she got what she wanted? or did she?
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Wow, I think I saw the intro to that story with a friend of mine... Except he was a great guy, so when SHE started to do minimal work with the kids. He picked up the parent slack but was owner of a big international business...so it was nanny. Babysitter, housekeeper and FT working Dad. Ft working mom who managed to still work long hours, get a mba from out of state, go on trips and have time for other activities. And was a bit self-centric.
To be generous, he neglected to tell her why he did not want kids other than finding them exhausting. Both of his kids have adhd. It's genetic linked. Turns out her daughter did too and was a whirlwind out of control.
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Jumping into the echo chamber.... CFBC and unlikely to change. I have many friends who have kids (intentionally) and are happy about it. But, there is also recognition of the changes in their lives and what they have given up for the kids.
I am also shocked and amazed at the number of couples who do not adequately discuss kids/no-kids before marriage. I've seen that lead to coercion of partners, divorce... and even kids. Seems like the short list of things on the must-discuss before marriage are finances, kids, life-trajectory (or lack thereof) choice.
Following up on the BBC article above, this was in The Atlantic this week and discusses the "kids" choice in light of planned and unplanned, and the social structures around having kids. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/not-wanting-kids-is-entirely-normal/262367/
All of the pictures of my SO from when she was a child have her looking like she simply can't wait to grow up and stop being a kid. I don't expect her opinion on the matter to change. :)
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I am also shocked and amazed at the number of couples who do not adequately discuss kids/no-kids before marriage.
Yes, and during! I have a friend who was married for 14 years, then divorced for numerous reasons. They went through multiple rounds of IVF and other expensive attempts to have children before finally figuring out that neither of them really wanted kids. They were both just doing it because each thought the other desperately wanted children.
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All of the pictures of my SO from when she was a child have her looking like she simply can't wait to grow up and stop being a kid. I don't expect her opinion on the matter to change. :)
Glenstache, you have sparked a huge revelation for me with this comment. This was me growing up. I did not play well with others, was always buried in books, and would get insanely frustrated when adults were having conversations I didn't understand. I never connected this with my desire not to have children, but it makes a ton of sense that if I didn't enjoy being a child, why would I want to experience it again?
Wow, mind blown. Thank you!
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All of the pictures of my SO from when she was a child have her looking like she simply can't wait to grow up and stop being a kid. I don't expect her opinion on the matter to change. :)
Glenstache, you have sparked a huge revelation for me with this comment. This was me growing up. I did not play well with others, was always buried in books, and would get insanely frustrated when adults were having conversations I didn't understand. I never connected this with my desire not to have children, but it makes a ton of sense that if I didn't enjoy being a child, why would I want to experience it again?
Wow, mind blown. Thank you!
Yeah, my childhood wasn't fun either. Being an adult is so much better. It does seem likely that not having a bunch of happy childhood memories may make one less likely to want children.
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My childhood wasn't great either. One of the reasons why I didn't want to have kids was that I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to help them if they struggled like I did as a kid. This may sound sad and it is but it also very true for me.
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M43, F51. Together 18 years, married 1.5 Never wanted kids and because of my wifes health it wasn't recommended anyway.
We do wonder what it would have been like once in a while but never any serious or lasting regrets about it.
We're semiRE now as well. Probably would have had to delay that with rug runts.
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I'm (somewhat) thankful other people have children.
I'm far more thankful I don't have any of my own.
Sometimes I feel a little guilty that I don't like being around kids / babies at all.
My sister actually asked if I'd be a guardian of her children in case of a tragic event. I declined as politely as I could. It was awkward. I may have seen my life flash before my eyes.
It is horrifying that I really am my brother's best choice for his three kids. When I think about it, I'm terrified. As they get older, the terror lessons slightly. At least now they're all potty trained, can speak at least somewhat intelligibly and are in school at least part of the day.
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All of the pictures of my SO from when she was a child have her looking like she simply can't wait to grow up and stop being a kid. I don't expect her opinion on the matter to change. :)
Glenstache, you have sparked a huge revelation for me with this comment. This was me growing up. I did not play well with others, was always buried in books, and would get insanely frustrated when adults were having conversations I didn't understand. I never connected this with my desire not to have children, but it makes a ton of sense that if I didn't enjoy being a child, why would I want to experience it again?
Wow, mind blown. Thank you!
This was me growing up too. I have 7 older brothers and sisters, and the oldest is 19 years older than me. I much wanted to be grown up. I wanted to play older games (cards, scrabble, volleyball) and have adult conversations.
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I'm (somewhat) thankful other people have children.
I'm far more thankful I don't have any of my own.
Sometimes I feel a little guilty that I don't like being around kids / babies at all.
My sister actually asked if I'd be a guardian of her children in case of a tragic event. I declined as politely as I could. It was awkward. I may have seen my life flash before my eyes.
It is horrifying that I really am my brother's best choice for his three kids. When I think about it, I'm terrified. As they get older, the terror lessons slightly. At least now they're all potty trained, can speak at least somewhat intelligibly and are in school at least part of the day.
We haven't been asked by our brothers, but I would probably say yes to take care of their children in a catastrophic event. I can make an acception for my own ideas in that case. My brother married a Christian woman and they are raising their children in a religious way. I would not want to do that, as we have a non religious household. And therefore I don't suspect them to ask me about this. My BIL in another story. We have more similar ideas about raising children.
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Sterilisation is also unnecessary because there is a much less invasive method (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/a-great-article-about-choices-why-poor-people-buy-tvs/msg1294216/#msg1294216) to avoid procreation: just never have sex.
This is my current practice. Celibacy keeps one's life so much simpler and free of strife.
Thank you for sharing.
I think there's a fair amount of merit to the bolded proposition above. I'm proud of my lifelong celibacy, and I intend to remain celibate for the rest of my life as well. There are many advantages, although one downside is that it's much harder to find a partner, because most people expect for sex to be a part of a relationship at some point. Despite that, it's still worth it for me to remain celibate for life. In fact, the difficulty of finding a partner could even be viewed as an advantage if it causes us to focus on self-improvement and loving ourselves, rather than relying on others to supply our happiness.
As for the topic, I can confirm that I do not intend to create biological children or to adopt children or to raise children (which anyone can do, not just the "couple[s]" to whom the original post is directed).
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Its great NOT having any kids!!!! : )
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I am also shocked and amazed at the number of couples who do not adequately discuss kids/no-kids before marriage.
Yes, and during! I have a friend who was married for 14 years, then divorced for numerous reasons. They went through multiple rounds of IVF and other expensive attempts to have children before finally figuring out that neither of them really wanted kids. They were both just doing it because each thought the other desperately wanted children.
This would be rom-com material hilarious, if it weren't for all the completely unnecessary waste of time and money.
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I told my wife when we ment no kids,and i got clipped.i have a 10year old nephew that i take care of on the weekends.hes my hunting,fishing,hiking buddy.i love having him around i get to act like a 10 year old.i like kids but i love saving cash and being with my wife becuse we want to be with eachother not becuse we have kids..my lil 2 year old niece will be my outdoor buddy when my nephew discovers the ladys.