FIRE vs. more time at home vs. career change.... thoughts??

[startingsmall]

I've been around on this site probably close to a year, trying to adopt some mildly Mustachian ways.  I'm slightly limited by the fact that my husband is pretty non-Mustachian (he's from a working-class family where you work until you die and retirement is just for the extremely wealthy), but we're doing okayish for a family that's not trying very hard.... current savings rate should be 45% according to our budget, but we fall short some months (or dip into savings occasionally) so we've hovered ~38% over the last 6 months.  We currently have about $125k in Vanguard funds (Roth IRA and rollover IRA), $10k in savings, and $12k in a 529 for our almost-3-year-old daughter (mostly made of gifts from family).   Debt is mortgage ($206k @ 3.5% on a house work ~$250k) and a low-interest car loan ($12k @ 3%)  In addition to the almost-3-year-old, we're planning to start trying for kiddo #2 in the next few months. 

So here's the dilemma... and because I feel like we get a good mix of varied-yet-well-reasoned input on here, I'm hoping you guys can provide me with some insight to help me formulate a plan.  FWIW, I'm 37 years old and my husband is 32. 

After being unhappy with my work situation for quite a while, I've finally figured out that it's not my job but my profession - I dislike the career that I had expected to love.  The very basic summary is that I have been a small animal veterinarian for the last 9 years.  I have held 5 jobs in that time... and always felt that I just hadn't found the 'right' work environment.  In the last year or so, however, I have finally come to the realization that isn't the specific jobs -  the career just isn't for me.  I don't like the constant pressure to see more patients and make more money, I don't like the fact that my job is more sales than problem-solving, I don't like the physical nature of the work (wrestling angry dogs and cats), I don't like the retail-like hours (evenings & weekends), I don't like the lack of schedule flexibility (sick days? hah! - the schedule is made months in advance and vets are expected to stick to it unless SEVERELY ill, I've called in twice in 9 years), I don't like dealing with angry/unrealistic clients who get mad when I can't fix their pet for free, I don't like staying late for ungrateful jerks who guilt me into providing subpar treatment for their evening emergency just because they're too cheap to go to the emergency clinic right down the road, etc.  I just don't like being a vet.  Work is unpleasant and anxiety-producing, there are frequently tears involved on my way to or from work (not sad, just angry/frustrated), and I just hate it.   

So I'm kind of torn between:
1) Keep plugging away, trying harder to get the husband on board, and aim for FIRE as early as possible.  Everybody hates going to work, right?  That's completely normal, I think. 
2) Stay in vet med but decrease to part-time to decrease both my misery and my time away from home.  Use the other time for the kiddo(s), or maybe to add some lower-paid or volunteer work that would prove more fulfilling. 
3) Change careers entirely to something more enjoyable with greater flexibility (haven't figured out what this would be).

I'm not really sure how to organize the random thoughts below, so I'm going to jump around a bit using bullet points.  Sorry in advance!

- Because my husband is in the ministry, my income pays the majority of our bills.  I currently bring in $92k/yr; he makes about $23k in salary plus $12k in a tax-exempt housing allowance.   So my income is necessary and needs to be maintained.  If I change careers, I could take a paycut but probably not a huge one.  (We could make adjustments in our living expenses, but only limited ones... so let's say, for the sake of argument, that if I were to change jobs tomorrow I would need to continue bringing in at least $60k/yr until retirement, whenever that may be.  Going lower than that would require additional preparation/savings, I think.)

- Despite his low income, my husband's work schedule is somewhat demanding and (more importantly) very unpredictable.  He's basically on-call 24/7 and as a minister to an older congregation, there are a lot of late-night hospital visits, funerals to plan/do, etc.  My schedule is much more predictable and only 40 hrs/wk, but the actual hours scheduled kinda suck - I work three weekdays per week from 9am-7pm, plus every other weekend from 9-5 on Saturday & Sunday.  All of this means that our daughter spends a lot of evenings & weekends either at her grandmother's house or sitting with random old folks in the church... which I don't really feel is fair to her.  I was fine with my schedule when my husband was staying home with her or only working part-time, but since he started this full-time job about 8 months ago, I feel like our life is incredibly stressful.  At least 1-2 evenings per week he has evening events at the church on nights that I work, so  I'm leaving work around 7:30pm, driving 30 minutes to my MIL's to pick up my daughter, doing dinner/bath/etc there, driving 20 minutes home, and not getting my daughter to bed until 9:30pm or later.  It's hectic and she's often cranky from lack of sleep.   I would like to work when daycare is open (6a-6p M-F) so that we could cover non-daycare hours ourselves and not have to do so much juggling/driving/etc. 

- Being The Preacher's Wife is a part-time job in and of itself.  I've been very careful not to overcommit and his entire congregation knows that I have my own career so they can't count on me to bake for baby showers, etc... but my Sundays off from my vet job basically still feel like work.  There are a lot of expectations during the couple of hours we're at church in the morning, a lot of people fighting for my attention, and we often have to stay at the church for luncheons, etc.  So while I feel like I'm doing as a good of a job as possible at keeping my involvement minimal (I sing in the choir - that's my only official role), it's still an extra stress.  I think my work schedule would seem a lot easier if my husband had a 'normal' job.... but the reality is that we both have demanding jobs and his happens to be one that also requires a certain degree of investment/effort from me.   

- Although I want out of vet med, I haven't really decided what I would prefer to do.  My favorite job EVER was teaching test prep for The Princeton Review, but I wouldn't want to be a schoolteacher and I have a hard time visualizing how I'd make a career out of tutoring that would come anywhere close to replacing my current income.  My husband has it in his head that I need to be doing something in financial planning because I love math/numbers and that may give me more flexible scheduling, but I have trouble viewing that as something I could get really passionate about (unless it were in more of a credit-counseling scenario, but then there's the issue of much lower pay than I'm currently making).  I feel like I'm kind of spoiled by my current salary, and so taking a paycut to go into a different career (which I would presumably have to do, unless I do something that requires considerably more schooling) is a big gamble because what if I end up equally unhappy in the next career?  I thought I'd love vetmed, and I was wrong... so what's to say that I won't make the same mistake again?



So... I don't know.  My husband is pushing hard for a career change because he says I'm miserable in vet med (which is true), but that just seems like a huge gamble that may or may not prove beneficial.  I'm more leaning towards sticking it out for a few more years, increasing savings during that time (hopefully to the point where having enough to retire by 60 is a done deal and I only need to earn enough to meet our expenses until that point), and then cutting back to part-time vet work once my oldest starts school.  Because my husband grew up in a 2-income family I think he views that as lazy, but I think that he doesn't realize that as a teacher, his mom had a LOT more flexibility than I do as a veterinarian.  (And summers off!)  I'm not saying that teaching is easy, but even if she had to stay late he often went to her classroom and hung out there with her.   I'm not even allowed to receive personal phone calls at work, much less have a kiddo in the building!

Anyway, I hate my career, want to do something fulfilling with my life, AND hate the hectic busyness of our current mismatched schedules.  I'm hoping someone here will be able to offer an insight or perspective that I hadn't considered... please don't let me down! :) 

[StacheInAFlash]

Startingsmall, that sounds like a similar situation my wife is in although her patients are humans..she makes way more of our collective income, making it difficult for her to get out of the field and into a lower paying position in a totally different field. The FIRE carrot that has now been dangled in front of her that we never considered a few years ago makes it both easier and harder to keep trudging through her day to day in a job she doesn't like. Just a shot in the dark, but is there any chance of teaching Vet medicine instead of practicing it? Either in an actual Veterinary Medicine program or in a Veterinarian Assistant program at a community college? It sounds like you want to teach, so perhaps that is the logical type of teaching to do. I don't know if that is something that you consider as being a "school teacher" which you mentioned not wanting to do, but that definitely seems to be a possibility for you. Another option, possibly, is a vet at a humane society if you're in a city with a large  , well funded shelter system. I know the one here has several vets on staff. Obviously, there is a whole set of trade offs in that type of setting, but it is something to at least throw out there. Best of luck!

[Bracken_Joy]

I don't have any advice (I'm sorry!) but I'm following to see the feedback people give.

Wishing you the best.

[Gray Matter]

I don't have highly relevant advice, but just want to show my support--you're in a challenging situation.  Life is too short to hate your job, and I feel your frustration around both your job and the personal sacrifices you have to make to do it.

My sister is a vet and has also found it stressful, though rewarding.   She went part-time and that has vastly improved things for her (she works Thursdays, Friday, and half of Saturdays).  She is an excellent mother, cook, homemaker and derives great satisfaction from that, though she also enjoys working part-time to keep her skills and licensure up, and I think the stress is far more tolerable when you only work a few days a week.

That said, her husband is the primary earner in the family, and as the part-time vet, she is the one whose hours get cut if their appointments are not full, so her income is erratic, which wouldn't work well in your situation.

This next part is going to sound insensitive because, well, it is.  And keep in mind that I do not come from a place of faith or a having a calling, so that's not a frame of reference I truly get, but your husband's job seems to be as (or more) on problematic for the family as yours, though for different reasons.  He has a demanding job that requires things of you, leaves him unavailable to take care of things on the home front while you work weekends, but does not pay well.  Are both of you committed to his vocation, or is that something that could be put on the table as well?  Is there potential for him to earn more money so that you would be more equal earners, opening up more possibilities for you?  (I totally get if that is not an option, just thought I would ask.)

Teaching, as someone else recommended, may be a good option.

[cripes7]

I worked opposite shifts from my husband our entire career with 5 kids, so I understand the craziness. Until you figure it out, hire a great sitter that will make dinner, bathe your daughter, and have her ready for bed the nights he isn't home. We had someone for 3 hours a day, midday,  between my husband leaving/me returning who would cook, straighten up, and did a great job with our 2 youngest. Worth every single penny.

[RebeccaR]

As someone who has a 3-year-old, a 10-month-old, a demanding 40-hour/wk job and a husband with a demanding 50- to 60-hour a week job, not to scare you, but you also need to consider that the craziness will at least double when you are juggling 2 little ones in your scenario. There are so many things I did (or didn't do) with our first one that went right out the window with our second - all her milk the first year was breastmilk, I made all of her baby food (until 12 months), she had almost zero screen time, etc. With our son, about 90% is still breastmilk, but he does get some formula from time to time because it's just harder to keep up with the pumping, I made his baby food until about 9 months but had to stop because there wasn't enough time on 5-6 hours of sleep a night (he's a great sleeper, it's 5-6 hours just because I need the other hours to get things done), and he's probably seen more screen time in his first 10 months than my daughter did in her first 2 years. So depending on what your choices are about those kinds of things, you may need to consider whether you'll be okay with letting them go or not. I beat myself up about them the first month or so, then finally had to accept that there is a limit to how much I can do, I'm doing the very best that I can, and that's going to have to be okay.

I worked for about 18  months at an animal shelter, in administration, not as a vet. We had one full-time vet who had been there for 7-8 years who left to go part-time so that she could spend more time at home with their 4 kids. Her husband was a teacher, so they couldn't go entirely without his income. She came back to full-time at the shelter after about 6 months of part-time because she said she hated dealing with the pet owners (for reasons similar to what you mentioned in your post) and full-time at the shelter (where you truly do get to focus on taking care of the animals, with much less owner involvement) was less stressful than part-time with pet owners.

Since you enjoyed teaching, I agree that teaching veterinary classes or vet tech classes could also be a good option if that's available in your area.

If not that, would it be possible to go into a more specialized area of vet medicine, such as an veterinary opthomologist (sp??), veterinary neurologist, etc.? My thought there is that pet owners who need and seek out those kinds of services may be ones that are more likely to be the more pleasant kind of pet owner to deal with. But then again, I could be totally wrong on that. If you do consider that option, I wouldn't hesitate to call some of those kinds of vets first and talk with them about what their experiences have been so that you don't wind up in another situation similar to your current one. Those kinds of places also seem to have more normal 9-5 hours. (We've needed the services of both.)

[deborah]

There is often an assumption that the mother does most of the child care - picking up, fixing when sick... You mention that some of your stress is in going to your MIL, getting your child and taking it home when you both work late. Is there any reason your husband can't do this? Look at your various unpaid workloads together and work out which ones it really makes sense for each of you to do. You will really need this to be sorted out before your next baby is born.

[BlueHouse]

I'm bringing my own baggage to my interpretation, so I tend to see the problem as working in a high volume clinic vs working for yourself and calling the shots. Are you in an area that would support vet at home visits?  You could choose your clients and house calls tend to be more routine than at a clinic. People also greatly appreciate that you go to their houses and avoid stressing the sin,al that much more. I'd look into setting up a business, making my own hours, limiting the number of clients, probably keep an affiliation with at least one or two pet hospitals and possibly have office hours there once per week, etc.
if you are in an area that would also allow you to limit geographically your clients, so much the better.
I live in the middle of a HCOL urban area and it amzes me to see how much people spend on their pets. But I can also say, once someone finds a good sitter, walker, vet, doctor, house cleanerl or any other service oriented professional, the last thing anyone wants to do is piss them off for fear of being "fired" as a client.

[startingsmall]

]Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies!!  Lots of food for thought here.... keep it coming!!  Wanted to respond to a few individual points...

Just a shot in the dark, but is there any chance of teaching Vet medicine instead of practicing it? Either in an actual Veterinary Medicine program or in a Veterinarian Assistant program at a community college? It sounds like you want to teach, so perhaps that is the logical type of teaching to do. I don't know if that is something that you consider as being a "school teacher" which you mentioned not wanting to do, but that definitely seems to be a possibility for you. Another option, possibly, is a vet at a humane society if you're in a city with a large  , well funded shelter system. I know the one here has several vets on staff.

Teaching at a vet school is not an option because that would require relocation, which husband is strongly opposed to (for a number of reasons - his family helps a lot with evening/weekend childcare and we board our horses very cheaply at his parents' house).  There is a vet tech program locally, which I've considered.... but they only employ one FT vet instructor at a time and otherwise use adjuncts.  If I ever go down to PT vet work or when I FIRE, I'd definitely try teaching there.  Unfortunately, it's not something I can work in to a FT schedule because my schedule varies from week to week and requires unlimited availability. 

Shelter medicine would appeal to me in a large shelter where you were actually permitted to do some medical treatments, have a herd-health consulting role, etc.... but the only shelter in our area that employs a veterinarian uses that veterinarian for their low-cost spay/neuter/vaccine clinic, so there's still the client issues and maybe on an even larger scale because those clients are the ones who are the least willing to spend money on their pets. 

This next part is going to sound insensitive because, well, it is.  And keep in mind that I do not come from a place of faith or a having a calling, so that's not a frame of reference I truly get, but your husband's job seems to be as (or more) on problematic for the family as yours, though for different reasons.  He has a demanding job that requires things of you, leaves him unavailable to take care of things on the home front while you work weekends, but does not pay well.  Are both of you committed to his vocation, or is that something that could be put on the table as well?  Is there potential for him to earn more money so that you would be more equal earners, opening up more possibilities for you?  (I totally get if that is not an option, just thought I would ask.)

This doesn't sound insensitive at all.  Actually, I'm glad that you mentioned it because I often feel the same way... and then beat myself up for being an insensitive jerk.  The reality, though, is that I encouraged my husband down this path and he really loves the ministry.  When I first met him, he wanted to be a veterinarian and I was the one who talked him out of that.  He then briefly considered nursing but, for some dumb reason, I talked him out of that and encouraged him to pursue his dream of ministry.  At that point, I was still in the mode of thinking that I would love vet med once I found the right job and therefore I was fine with us living off my salary while he pursued his dream.  Anyway, because of all that, I don't feel comfortable forcing a change right now.  Hopefully his pay will go up over time, or he'll someday transfer to a larger church, but I just don't know.

I worked opposite shifts from my husband our entire career with 5 kids, so I understand the craziness. Until you figure it out, hire a great sitter that will make dinner, bathe your daughter, and have her ready for bed the nights he isn't home. We had someone for 3 hours a day, midday,  between my husband leaving/me returning who would cook, straighten up, and did a great job with our 2 youngest. Worth every single penny.

This is a fabulous idea.  I'm not sure if there is a way that we can incorporate it without offending my MIL, but it may be worth a try.  THANK YOU!!

If not that, would it be possible to go into a more specialized area of vet medicine, such as an veterinary opthomologist (sp??), veterinary neurologist, etc.? My thought there is that pet owners who need and seek out those kinds of services may be ones that are more likely to be the more pleasant kind of pet owner to deal with. But then again, I could be totally wrong on that. If you do consider that option, I wouldn't hesitate to call some of those kinds of vets first and talk with them about what their experiences have been so that you don't wind up in another situation similar to your current one. Those kinds of places also seem to have more normal 9-5 hours. (We've needed the services of both.)

Unfortunately, specializing requires a 3-4 year residency.... which is a time of long hours (60-80 hrs/wk is the norm), low pay ($30k), and would require relocation.  Not a huge deal fresh out of vet school, but not something that I can pursue now with a family.

 

There is often an assumption that the mother does most of the child care - picking up, fixing when sick... You mention that some of your stress is in going to your MIL, getting your child and taking it home when you both work late. Is there any reason your husband can't do this? Look at your various unpaid workloads together and work out which ones it really makes sense for each of you to do. You will really need this to be sorted out before your next baby is born.

Actually, I'm very lucky in this regard.  Husband does daycare dropoff and pickup most days and is the one who stays home with our daughter is sick (or he takes her into work and she lays on the couch in his office).  He has office hours from 9a-1p and the evening events as mentioned, but his afternoons are pretty flexible for visitations, sermon writing, planning, etc and therefore he does do a good bit of the daytime childcare stuff.  I end up picking her up from MIL's when he has evening events, though, because he's typically at the church until 9/10pm on those nights and therefore I can get her home earlier. 

I'm bringing my own baggage to my interpretation, so I tend to see the problem as working in a high volume clinic vs working for yourself and calling the shots. Are you in an area that would support vet at home visits?  You could choose your clients and house calls tend to be more routine than at a clinic. People also greatly appreciate that you go to their houses and avoid stressing the sin,al that much more. I'd look into setting up a business, making my own hours, limiting the number of clients, probably keep an affiliation with at least one or two pet hospitals and possibly have office hours there once per week, etc.

Unfortunately, we're in a low-income area that is already oversaturated with housecall vets.  I'd have to set up a 'territory' that's away from my home (at least for now, until we could move closer to the nearby big city) and I'm not sure how financially reasonable that is vs. the 'work hard and then drop to PT' model.  May be worth considering, though.  I'll have to do some research on the other, wealthier nearby communities.

Again, thanks for all of these ideas.  I don't want it to seem like I'm shooting them all down... because even the ideas that won't work are getting my mind turning and trying to figure out other alternatives!  (Also, I figure that explaining why those ideas won't all work will help someone else come up with other options.)  Thanks for getting my brain 'unstuck!'

[G-dog]

Could you become a vet product/pharmaceutical rep? How about vet diagnostic assay? Move to the sales side or the technical side. How about pet behaviorist?

[AZDude]

Any chance you could pay the MIL to come over and be a SAHM during the evenings? Rather than drive all over, if she was at home to keep things normal for your child, things might be smoother. Offer her a modest fee for the inconvenience.

When my daughter was really little, my FIL, who was in his own ER at the time, watched our little one for awhile until she got older and things calmed down. We forced him at gunpoint to take some money for the task, but he would have done it for free.

Also, I know you are a small animal vet, but any chance you could be a large animal tech? Horses, cattle, etc... I dont know how vet medicine works so that might be a stupid question, but seems like there might be different opportunities there. If not, then I would say plug away, pay off your mortgage ASAP, sounds like it would be just a couple more years, then you will have freed up enough cash to do something less hectic.

On a personal note, I hated my career for a long time, but somewhere in the last few years I made my peace and found a way to not be miserable. Hopefully you can do the same.

[startingsmall]

Could you become a vet product/pharmaceutical rep? How about vet diagnostic assay? Move to the sales side or the technical side. How about pet behaviorist?

I've definitely considered industry.  Most of those jobs require extensive travel, which would be a step back in some ways, but there may be a rare job that doesn't.  I receive email updates from the AVMA (our professional organization and where most jobs are listed) any time a job is added in my state, and industry jobs are very rare.  The only problem with going directly into a job like that is that my current job's noncompete clause forbids me from working with any company that  "(C) develops or sells veterinary health insurance, veterinary wellness plans or other products relating to financing of veterinary services; (D) conducts clinical trials relating to the development or production of veterinary medication or pet products; or (E) compiles or distributes data related to the veterinary medical industry" for two years after termination of my employment with them. 

Veterinary behaviorist is the ONLY field that I would ever want to specialize in... and there are ways to acquire that specialty without relocation.  Unfortunately, my area is too broke for the services of a behaviorist and the somewhat-close-ish wealthier big city already has one. 

Any chance you could pay the MIL to come over and be a SAHM during the evenings? Rather than drive all over, if she was at home to keep things normal for your child, things might be smoother. Offer her a modest fee for the inconvenience.

When my daughter was really little, my FIL, who was in his own ER at the time, watched our little one for awhile until she got older and things calmed down. We forced him at gunpoint to take some money for the task, but he would have done it for free.

Also, I know you are a small animal vet, but any chance you could be a large animal tech? Horses, cattle, etc... I dont know how vet medicine works so that might be a stupid question, but seems like there might be different opportunities there. If not, then I would say plug away, pay off your mortgage ASAP, sounds like it would be just a couple more years, then you will have freed up enough cash to do something less hectic.

I'll discuss it with my husband, but I'm pretty sure he'll refuse to inconvenience his mom in that way.  We already pay her $150/month to board the two horses that she bought for him as a teenager, but I don't think additional pay would make it worth her while to come to our house.  On the plus side, husband had no evening events this week (though he will be at the church all day Sunday while I'm at work, meaning MIL will have our daughter).  And even though large animal vet will mean less hectic days, it also means 24/7 on-call which I'm definitely NOT wanting to sign up for :)


After a lot of discussion with the husband over the last couple of days, I think the "keep plugging away for 3-5 years and then go PT" plan is the most appealing.  I honestly had no idea that we were at almost 40% savings rate until I sat down to write this post.... and once my husband heard that, it seemed to provide him with some motivation as well.  He's still not 100% comfortable with the idea of me going PT (there was a lot of "my family never had the money to do fancy things like take trips to Paris and London, and I want our kids to have that"... umm, my family had plenty of money and we never did that either because MY DAD WAS ALWAYS WORKING!!), but seems more open to the idea than he has been in the past once he heard that I had a plan for how to do it without making a major change to our lifestyle.

If we had enough in savings that it could just grow until 'retirement age' (whatever I determine that to be), we could take a 40% pay cut right away without any changes in lifestyle.... which means I'd only need to bring in $40k before taxes even if my husband doesn't get any significant raises.  So, we'll see... but I think that's the current plan.  And I'm hoping my current job may become more tolerable if I can recognize that it's only temporary.   

[deborah]

I have been thinking about your dilemma. I am retired now, but once I had a job that I didn't like, and I spent a lot of time thinking about why it was that I didn't like it. After all that thinking (I guess I was concentrating on what I didn't like) I hated it a lot more than I did at first.

Sometimes the power of positive thinking really works, and I suggest that you think a little, each day, on the things you liked that day about your job. At the moment there may not be much, but I'm sure it includes the fact that it earns enough money that you are well on the way to FIRE. While this may not be the answer you are looking for, it may be something that turns the situation around enough that you are happy to do the extra years. You might suggest to your husband that he also finds something positive to say about it. One of my problems at the time was a boyfriend who really didn't like my job, and said so all the time.

[russianswinga]

Wow I wish I could offer some advice but with such a huge income disparity, and the high earner wanting to be the one to FIRE, I wouldn't even know where to start :(


On a related topic, and this is just an observation - I've found that the idea of FIRE seems to be much more palatable to atheists or non-majority believers (non-christitans, non-muslims, non-jews) as the three faiths demand a lot of commitment from those actively involved (priests, imams, rabbis) at great personal expense to oneself.
If one were dedicated believer wanting to contribute to and improve the faith, but also wanted to FIRE - one couldn't. You could argue that the easy path to FIRE is a high-earning career for a short period of time, followed by ER, after which you'd be free to contribute to the faith as you saw fit (or however your diety guided you). But it seems that established church practices are set to prevent that from happening - if you were religious early on in your life, then the path to becoming a priest inevitably excludes you from any high income opportunities in favor of service. If you are not burdened by religion (or follow one that does not prevent you from taking an unrelated high earning job), FIRE is a lot closer.
Thoughts?

[deborah]

Well, Numbers (the book in the old testament) says that priests should retire at 50, according to someone in another thread here.

[startingsmall]

Sometimes the power of positive thinking really works, and I suggest that you think a little, each day, on the things you liked that day about your job. At the moment there may not be much, but I'm sure it includes the fact that it earns enough money that you are well on the way to FIRE. While this may not be the answer you are looking for, it may be something that turns the situation around enough that you are happy to do the extra years. You might suggest to your husband that he also finds something positive to say about it. One of my problems at the time was a boyfriend who really didn't like my job, and said so all the time.

Good point.  I could definitely benefit from having a more positive attitude.  Today was actually a really good day at work - lots of joking around and good times with my coworkers, and a much easier load than usual because I'm training a new doctor and therefore had more help.  It was a fun day and I'm actually NOT dreading work tomorrow very much.  Need to take special note of those good days and use them to get me through the bad ones!!

If one were dedicated believer wanting to contribute to and improve the faith, but also wanted to FIRE - one couldn't. You could argue that the easy path to FIRE is a high-earning career for a short period of time, followed by ER, after which you'd be free to contribute to the faith as you saw fit (or however your diety guided you). But it seems that established church practices are set to prevent that from happening - if you were religious early on in your life, then the path to becoming a priest inevitably excludes you from any high income opportunities in favor of service. If you are not burdened by religion (or follow one that does not prevent you from taking an unrelated high earning job), FIRE is a lot closer.

I think I see your point.  I couldn't take a job that violated my ethics, even if it were ridiculously high-paying, so that's kind of a limitation.  Also, if I do hit my goal of "pre-tirement," I definitely won't refer to it that way in front of members of my husband's congregation.  They would have a hard time with the idea that we were putting back money in savings instead of increasing our tithing.  So if we do hit the point where I can work PT, it'll have to look like I'm choosing to be more of a SAHM vs choosing to intentionally cut back on work....  which is silly, because once the kids move out I intend to spend that extra time doing some sort of volunteer or lower-paid work.  I'm not a big travel buff (too much of a creature of habit/routine), I'm not a big socialite, and there's only so much hiking/biking that you can do locally, so that leaves community service as 'my fun' :)

[startingsmall]

Can't decide whether to start a new subject or post here, so we'll start here...

Assuming that my plan is to shift to PT in the next 3-5 years and hubby will continue to work FT until we both retire at age 55-60ish, what steps would you take financially to help that happen?  Our previous focus was maxing my Simple IRA through my previous employer ($12k/yr) and rebuilding our savings account (husband just started FT work 8 months ago - before that, he had either been a seminary student or only working PT for the entire 8 years of our marriage so our savings was low). I'm now happy with our cash savings (may add just a little bit more, but not much), so after maxing my 401(k) & Roth what other steps should I focus on?   (Husband has a retirement account administered by his denomination that he can contribute towards, but it's uninsured and that makes me nervous... the church contributes to it and so hopefully that money will be there when needed, but I don't trust it enough to divert significant amounts of his pay into that account.)  Obviously, the first order of business is to pay off the car.  What next, though?  Further increase our cash savings?  Investments?  Pay down our mortgage so that we can refinance into a lower payment when I go PT?

Any thoughts?  Thanks!!

[Rollin]

I don't have highly relevant advice, but just want to show my support--you're in a challenging situation.  Life is too short to hate your job, and I feel your frustration around both your job and the personal sacrifices you have to make to do it.

My sister is a vet and has also found it stressful, though rewarding.   She went part-time and that has vastly improved things for her (she works Thursdays, Friday, and half of Saturdays).  She is an excellent mother, cook, homemaker and derives great satisfaction from that, though she also enjoys working part-time to keep her skills and licensure up, and I think the stress is far more tolerable when you only work a few days a week.

That said, her husband is the primary earner in the family, and as the part-time vet, she is the one whose hours get cut if their appointments are not full, so her income is erratic, which wouldn't work well in your situation.

This next part is going to sound insensitive because, well, it is.  And keep in mind that I do not come from a place of faith or a having a calling, so that's not a frame of reference I truly get, but your husband's job seems to be as (or more) on problematic for the family as yours, though for different reasons.  He has a demanding job that requires things of you, leaves him unavailable to take care of things on the home front while you work weekends, but does not pay well.  Are both of you committed to his vocation, or is that something that could be put on the table as well?  Is there potential for him to earn more money so that you would be more equal earners, opening up more possibilities for you?  (I totally get if that is not an option, just thought I would ask.)

Teaching, as someone else recommended, may be a good option.

From reading your post startingsmall (BTW-shooting kinda low with that name?) it sounds like the other parts of your life are caving in on your vet work.  In other words, if that other part were less stressful your work might be better.  I would look to ways to make your time outside work better fit your needs.  You are "borrowing" from the bank of energy and the payback is at a high interest rate.  Start small :) and see if you can start to carve out time for you (and family) and then work from there.  At a minimum it might get you to accept what is happening to you day to day and have a better understanding of how you feel.

When you concern yourself about getting into another career and worrying about maybe ending up in the same place tell me that there is work to do (on you) where you are now.

Also, could you consider less hours, another vets office that is more daily oriented, or more forgiving?  If I were a client I would feel better patronizing a vet office that had that family feel and orientation.  Is there another that is like that near you?

Keep asking the questions, and stay curious.  Get quiet daily and listen for the answers.

Good luck to you.

[daymare]

First, want to make sure you're aware that your husband can also max out his IRA (/open an IRA) - even if he had no earned income, he could open one as long as your income is greater than the amount you put into the Roths together (11K max for 2015, $5,500 for each person), due to the existence of spousal IRAs.

He's still not 100% comfortable with the idea of me going PT.

I too am married, so I know that marriage is (in many cases) not about 'fairness' in each and every aspect, and that it can be better emotionally to accept some ways that things aren't fair (if fair = strictly equal) and focus instead on the many ways your spouse adds to your life, and makes your life better.  But it might we worth delved into this further with your husband, calmly.  He, effectively, make $35Kish.  Because you want him to be happy and fulfilled, you encouraged his pursuit of the minister vocation.  You do what you can to make things work (ie, pick up your daughter after lengthy work hours when he has evening events), and you support him.  He's uncomfortable with you going down to PT (which might still produce a higher income than his?), which puts you in a rough position.  I'm sure he wants to support you and for you to have a fulfilling job (or at least one you don't hate).

And it's not about blame re: how you got into this situation (ie, your encouragement directly lead to his choosing this non-lucrative path and you before said you were fine with it).  I think he can acknowledge that his vocation has put you in a hard position where you don't have the same luxury he has - to take a low-paying, demanding and inconsistent hence inconveniencing schedule-wise job because it's fulfilling.  So I hope you two can approach this as a challenge you both need to tackle, rather than the problem being on you, because it's your job.  Consider also that if you take a lower-paying and part-time job, you could also do so and stop contributing to retirement for a short period of time.  If you go part-time as a vet, surely you would be able to go back to full-time in a few years if you chose to.  (And resume the retirement saving.  Plus you may be able to cut costs and still be able to save something if you're PT and have the time to learn how to spend less.)

I currently have lots of free time (finishing PhD-turned-dropout-with-master's and just have my thesis left to write), and it's remarkable how amazing life is when you can look after your health, spend time outside, and do errands with much less stress.  I'm more patient, more easy-going, have more time for friends, etc.  Likely if you went PT Vet, other aspects of your life would be better.  Especially if you intend to have another child shortly, going PT would go a long way to keeping your sanity with two little ones and a husband with an erratic and demanding schedule.  I honestly see life likely being much harder for your family if you keep things as-is work-wise and add another child to the mix.

[startingsmall]

From reading your post startingsmall (BTW-shooting kinda low with that name?) it sounds like the other parts of your life are caving in on your vet work.  In other words, if that other part were less stressful your work might be better.  I would look to ways to make your time outside work better fit your needs.  You are "borrowing" from the bank of energy and the payback is at a high interest rate.  Start small :) and see if you can start to carve out time for you (and family) and then work from there.  At a minimum it might get you to accept what is happening to you day to day and have a better understanding of how you feel.

I'm sure this is probably a large part of the problem.  I don't carve out any time for myself, except for the 1-hr lunch break that I typically get on work days.  Other than that, I'm at home with the husband and kiddo and when I am at home, I'm primary kiddo caretaker.  Also, we have a huge (2500 sq ft) house that I keep clean and a 5-acre grass yard that is in constant need of yardwork (husband does about 75% of the yardwork, but not all and not without frequent 'reminders' from me).  Husband does all of the cooking, but I'm not picky about food and would be just as happy with grilled cheese every night.... but the constant cleaning, feeling behind on yardwork, caring for our pets (2 dogs, a bird, three chickens, and now a kitten acquired last week) is exhausting. As for my time for myself, I really don't take any.   I surf the internet for an hour or so each night after the kiddo is in bed, but that doesn't really count in my mind.  I have one morning per week that the husband is at work and the kiddo is at daycare, but that's my day to clean the house, do laundry, etc.  I tried using that time for myself for a few weeks, but it just made the rest of the week even more overwhelming since I had to do cleaning/laundry after work when already exhausted.   Husband is not opposed to chipping in with housework, etc, but his standards are much lower than mine and therefore I find that I'm less stressed if I just do it than I am with coming home to a house that I'm not comfortable in every night.  So yeah.  A whole lot more there and sorry for unloading :) 

First, want to make sure you're aware that your husband can also max out his IRA (/open an IRA) - even if he had no earned income, he could open one as long as your income is greater than the amount you put into the Roths together (11K max for 2015, $5,500 for each person), due to the existence of spousal IRAs.

Thanks for the reminder!  I've been meaning to open a Roth for him... need to sit down and do it!  And I totally see your point on everything else you have said, but his earnings are a sensitive subject and so we really can't have any open conversation on that topic. 

[deborah]

Husband is not opposed to chipping in with housework, etc, but his standards are much lower than mine and therefore I find that I'm less stressed if I just do it than I am with coming home to a house that I'm not comfortable in every night. 

You really need to say to yourself that you are married for 30 years - not for one day. So any housework he does is 30 years less you need to do. It may take a little longer to train him to do what is required (if it really is) but the overall benefit is really worth it. Just don't tell my SO!