FIRE vs life sabbaticals

[Lmoot]

This is going to be long. So if you prefer you can skip to the summary.

Several years ago, as a 30th birthday present to myself, I quit my job in health insurance and didn't work full time for 8 months. I stayed plenty busy though. I traveled in Africa, where I stayed with family for a time. I continued working at my part time job at a zoo when I returned to the states, and also took on a seasonal job as a tour guide at a nearby tourist attraction.  I intended for the break to last no more than 6 months, but after not having any luck getting a hotel job like I wanted, I crawled back to health insurance. I didn't want to go back to my old company, so I interviewed at another and got a job offer right away. I had 45 days until my start-date and it was great place to be:  still "on break" but with guarantee of employment.
I didn't have to dip into savings during my life-sabbatical. I had 0% rate credit cards, and low expenses, easily covered by rental income from my former primary residence, and income from my part time job, and seasonal job, and even managed to add to savings; however, I owed money (0% interest credit cards, which helped fund my sabbatical), and those bills would be coming due. Plus I was saving much (MUCH) less than I was used to. So anxiety was beginning to set in before I secured a job.

Now I have been at this job for 3 1/2 years and while I am thankful to work a 4-day week from home, I am contemplating taking time off again to explore some things I haven't had time to try in my life because of consistently working 2 jobs, or going to school while working, since the age of 16. Some of those things include working on a farm, volunteering for Habitat for Humanity, becoming more involved in my state's trail association (specifically bridge-building and repair), and completing my state naturalist certification; as well as spending more time with my autistic niece, helping her navigate through middle school before she gets to high school, and more time with family in general (meaning another trip to Africa).
I'm not middle aged yet but getting there, and for the better part of the last decade, I've had a dream of working outdoors in/with nature, specifically as a zoo keeper for a few years before moving on to field work. I want to do this while I'm still kinda young and kinda nimble. I also want to learn about home renovation/building since acquiring more rental properties (specifically fixer-uppers in a particular neighborhood in my area), is another dream of mine. So it would be a sabbatical in a sense, as I would be using that time to engage in activities that would further my life ambitions, rather than taking me further away from them (office work).

I guess this would be a good place to include my "retirement philosophy". When I graduated college at the end of 2007, months later I witnessed people I knew and didn't know, losing so many of the things they worked for, during the recession. That put me into panic mode and I was determined to secure my future and make it iron-clad; stability was my game and so I bought a little house at the age of 25 and worked a full time and part time job, socking away money into savings (which wasn't much). I became obsessed with personal finance and early retirement (not so much because I wanted to retire early, but rather because I wanted the option). After reading about so many journeys to FI over the years, on sites such as MMM, GetRichSlowly, SimpleDollar etc...I decided early retirement was no longer attractive to me. For one, many of the people represented were in high-earning fields and early retirement meant 25-40 years early; whereas on my low-middle class income, early retirement looked more like  10-15 years early. I felt like the present was passing me by, in my laser focus on the future. I got turned onto the idea of intermittent work-breaks. For the longest time I was taught that there was a stigma against gaps in work-history; perhaps in certain fields there are, but not mine (a benefit of being a low-mid level  insurance cog). I believe it was my work break that allowed me to get a job easily in my field. I think it made me stand out, and showed creative thinking, temerity, financial stability, and responsibility. I was able to account for my time in ways that was ultimately determined to be sufficiently respectable.

I also broke another  long-held belief: that I needed my full time job to support myself. When I wasn't working I paid my bills, which included out of pocket health insurance. I was able to cobble together from my mulitple streams of income, a happy existence, although temporary; but it turns out that's all I needed for now, and I was actually excited to begin working full time again. It wasn't a logic-based conclusion because in reality I was using credit cards so I wouldn't have to dip into savings (not because I couldn't afford it, but I felt better having more cash, and liked earning interest on the cash, and rewards on the credit card). I was also living with family while renting out my house, and was foolishly confident that I would be able to get a job in time to pay off the credit cards when they came due in 12, 15, 24 months (I did, but the reliance on it was a little naive). But the point was, it got me thinking about the possibilities. It broke me of the invisible chains of dependency on a singular entity to provide me income, stability, work-life balance (on their terms, not mine)...health insurance. I didn't have to wait 20-30 years to taste that freedom, and it was the best gift I could have ever given to myself.
And so now, I have decided to begin preparing for another work-break...this time I want to try a year. I expect I won't be ready to take the plunge for another year and a half, but I am determined to go into it with more preparedness than before, not just because it's for a longer period of time, but because I want to avoid the mist of anxiety that was minimal, but there throughout my first break, which was more spontaneous. I intend after a year to re apply to the same position at my same company (unless there is something that is better with the same pay and benefits, and low stress...doubtful). Since progressing in this industry is not only something I don't care about, it's something I am actively resisting, so a potential set-back in position as a side effect of leaving, would actually be a benefit to me. I am waiting until I buy a second investment property before leaving.  When I come back, I'll likely work long enough to buy a 3rd investment property then call it quits after that, living off of rental income, part time and seasonal work, maybe go back to school for a science degree, and attempt to get a full time job in my desired field eventually.

Anyway, I didn't just want to share my story, I am curious about anyone else who doen't have the goal of FIRE early, but instead is finding ways of making a living off of intermittent work-breaks. There doesn't seem to be as much info out there on that, as there is with the typical linear work, then don't work schedule.

Summary:
I quit my job a few years ago, to take a 6 month (turned 8 month) break. I want to quit my current job and take a year off. I'd like to follow a schedule of working, then taking a break throughout my working life, instead of seeking very early retirement. I'm curious if anyone else has contemplated or is living this type of lifestyle and what your thoughts or experiences are.

I'm also curious about those that are pursuing FIRE, your reasons for that vs taking sabbaticals (or if you are pursuing both...in which case you're my personal hero).

[expatartist]

Hi Lmoot, without seeing any numbers, your plan sounds reasonably solid so long as your health holds up. In the past I've met a number of travelers / adventurers who chose similar paths. Many in their 20s to early 40s did seasonal work half the year and traveled for the rest. They tend to settle in somewhere around their 40s as I have (kind of). A 50-something British couple spent mild winters in Hong Kong, teaching enough English and yoga to fund life for a year, and spent the other half of the year on a Greek island while renters (including me) paid their Hong Kong mortgage.  A Canadian lawyer would work 2-3 years then take a year off to travel with his family. I believe he worked for the govt or independently, not for a big firm.

It's great you've found the kind of work that can allow you the flexibility to do this. Carry on!

[Freedomin5]

I think the plan makes sense when you are young. However, the worry is about finding a job when you are ready to re-enter the workforce. When you’re in your late 20s / early 30s, that’s not a big deal, but when you’re 50, many people find themselves overlooked in favor of younger applicants who have more working years ahead of them for the company to exploit.

That’s probably why most people espouse building your stash early on, reaching FI, and then taking your sabbaticals or becoming a SWAMI.

Alternatively, you do mention an interesting point, which is the concept of having multiple income streams. That idea makes a lot of sense. Wealthy people often have on average seven separate income streams. So if you have rental, investment, part time work, and seasonal income, you have four separate income streams and probably won’t need a “normal” full time job. That’s what we are doing right now.

[AZDude]

I think the plan makes sense when you are young. However, the worry is about finding a job when you are ready to re-enter the workforce. When you’re in your late 20s / early 30s, that’s not a big deal, but when you’re 50, many people find themselves overlooked in favor of younger applicants who have more working years ahead of them for the company to exploit.

That’s probably why most people espouse building your stash early on, reaching FI, and then taking your sabbaticals or becoming a SWAMI.

Alternatively, you do mention an interesting point, which is the concept of having multiple income streams. That idea makes a lot of sense. Wealthy people often have on average seven separate income streams. So if you have rental, investment, part time work, and seasonal income, you have four separate income streams and probably won’t need a “normal” full time job. That’s what we are doing right now.

I sort of agree. I don't think you need FI, just you need to have a decent stash that would, if left untouched, provide for a comfortable lifestyle at full retirement age. So, something like $100K, and then you can be more flexible with your life.

[Lmoot]

@expatartist wow, those stories are inspirational. I would love to one day get into the groove of having a selection of  reliable seasonal work I can return to again and again. If I’m having too much fun with my free time, I can skip a season. If I’m getting bored, I can start on an earlier gig in the season. That would be great. A lot of seasonal work seems to be outdoors which is where I want to be after many years working on a computer indoors.

@Freedomin5 What is SWAMI? I’ve seen it written before, lost in a sea of a million other abbvs. Yes, age might be something to consider. In my line of work (the position I’m in anyway) there are more older people in my position than younger ones. And there seems to be an accepting culture of people bouncing around to other companies in the industry, and returning. There’s a lot of turnover essentially, and it’s unskilled work. So not really cutthroat or competitive...easy to slide back into (hopefully)

@AZDude That’s one way to go. In my case I’d likely trade out a stash of cash, for a stash of investment properties.


I find that I like to always have something big to look forward to, which is why I am attracted to the concept of sabbaticals. I am not brave enough to completely jump ship, so this would be my attempt at testing the waters. Being in a field where there is a lot of turnover helps...I can use it to my advantage.

[mathlete]

Interesting idea. Cool that you were able to visit Africa.

I'm focused on FIRE because I have an inclination to "get it while the getting is good." The market values my skillset and 40 hours of median effort a week pretty highly. And I'm banking a pension. Sabbaticals sound attractive, but I'm almost 30 y/o right now and I don't want to potentially put myself in a position where I am 50 and having to sell an on-again-off-again resume in an environment that could be dramatically different with the onset of regulatory changes or machine learning.

My plan is to ride this career out for another 9 years. Hopefully then, I'll be comfortably FIRE. At that point, I may choose to keep working in order to set my (potential future) kids up for life.

[Hirondelle]

I'm very much pro-sabbatical/gap year and know many people who have taken them or are still in the midst of one. Your story is inspiring and I totally think you should do it again! I'll get back to this thread later and may write up some inspirational stories of the people I know - seasonal work, digital nomading, early retirees, there's so many cool people out there in the world :)

[use2betrix]

With working from home, why not travel and continue to work from home? Could do it in a travel trailer, RV, or even an Airbnb? In my book, that practically already is a dream vacation as long as you have internet/phone as needed.

I’d take such a massive pay cut to work from home. Maybe some day.

[John Galt incarnate!]

This is going to be long. So if you prefer you can skip to the summary.

.
Summary:

I'd like to follow a schedule of working, then taking a break throughout my working life, instead of seeking very early retirement. I'm curious if anyone else has contemplated or is living this type of lifestyle and what your thoughts or experiences are.

I never contemplated taking a break.

My single-minded motivation was to retire as soon as possible so that my last "break" would be permanent.

[JoJo]

I'm in the pro-Sabbatical camp.  Worked & studied hard in 20s.  Took sabbatical for 20 months at age 31.  Worked 33-40, took 3 months at age 40.  At age 43 I went to part time 60% which allows me to take a couple trips around 7 weeks per year plus a few other weeks spread out.  I have no regrets for any of them.  I will likely retire in the next year.

[Lmoot]

With working from home, why not travel and continue to work from home? Could do it in a travel trailer, RV, or even an Airbnb? In my book, that practically already is a dream vacation as long as you have internet/phone as needed.

I’d take such a massive pay cut to work from home. Maybe some day.

I have to be within a certain amount of miles of the satellite office and I put in 10-12 hours per day (permanent mandatory overtime), so it wouldn’t feel like much of break. Plus my goal isn’t ability to be mobile necessarily (most of the things I want to do are local), it’s having the time to do it.

Your day will come I’m sure! Many office jobs are going home. Before, working from home with my company was a privilege one had to earn...now they are practically begging people to go home so they can reduce the amount of space they need to pay rent on (they’ve already stopped leasing 2 floors in the building they share with other companies).With the cost of remote communication systems going down for companies, and the technology improving, it’s going to be changing a lot of things.

[Lmoot]

I'm in the pro-Sabbatical camp.  Worked & studied hard in 20s.  Took sabbatical for 20 months at age 31.  Worked 33-40, took 3 months at age 40.  At age 43 I went to part time 60% which allows me to take a couple trips around 7 weeks per year plus a few other weeks spread out.  I have no regrets for any of them.  I will likely retire in the next year.

That’s the life! I’m glad you got to to have big meaningful experiences throughout your life. It must be interesting to be have that opportunity at different stages. I feel like you really get to know yourself when you don’t have to give so much of yourself to someone or something else. And what a treat to be able to get to know yourself in your 20s and in your 30s, 40s etc.  I learned so much about what I’m capable of, and who I am when I don’t have to be someone else to earn a paycheck. If it’s possible to bond with yourself, I definitely did during my break. It really put me in tune with my true desires and helped me settle on a direction for my life.

[Lmoot]

This is going to be long. So if you prefer you can skip to the summary.

.
Summary:

I'd like to follow a schedule of working, then taking a break throughout my working life, instead of seeking very early retirement. I'm curious if anyone else has contemplated or is living this type of lifestyle and what your thoughts or experiences are.

I never contemplated taking a break.

My single-minded motivation was to retire as soon as possible so that my last "break" would be permanent.

I get that and can definitely see the appeal. I guess I’ve just never been one to embrace finality. I like transitions but I also seem to enjoy them more when I know they are temporary. Sometimes I think I probably enjoy the process of change more than the change itself. Which would explain why I enjoy the transition from season to season, but quickly tire of the seasons themselves.

[ixtap]

Interesting story and perspective!

I like the concept of sabbaticals/mini-retirements, but it is tough to pull the trigger if you’re in a good (if uninspiring) job.

I wonder if FIRE is more appealing to disengaged workers who are highly compensated, and sabbaticals are more appealing to average or low income workers (it feels like less to lose).

In my husband's case, they also have the issue of reaching a theoretical max for improvements; many of his co-workers are already cross training.

[RedmondStash]

I've taken a few sabbaticals, ranging from summer-long to multiple years. No regrets.

It helps to have one or more skillsets that virtually guarantee employment, even as you age.

If you want to take sabbaticals, work seasonally, and postpone FIRE, why not? It's your life. You have to figure out what suits you best. You will not make your other goals impossible by taking sabbaticals and postponing FIRE. You already know it works because you've done it before.

Sounds like you know what you want to do and are just looking for permission to do it. So: permission granted. :)

[gerardc]

This discussion would be more useful with net worth numbers, at least as a fraction of a self-sufficient stash for your situation. You could take a sabbatical every 20% (or other) milestone towards your goal. This way you make sure to progress towards eventual FI, your stash can partially fund your sabbaticals and you enjoy FU money in the meantime. The last thing you want is to be doing that until your health breaks or you can't find a job again anymore.

[mrcheese]

The state government here offers a deferred salary scheme where you work four years at 80% salary then take the fifth year off, also at 80% pay. One lady I work with is on her third round, she loves it.

[Lmoot]

@RedmondStash Haha, thank you for your permission :) And I agree that skillset building is important at any age. I'm hoping by giving myself a break from over using one type of skill (which really isn't a useful skill for the type of work I do), I will be able to cultivate and add more universal skills, making me more attractive to the employers I will ultimately aim to work for.


@gerardc I think having a stash that can grow from early on is important for retirement, whether you plan on retiring early or not. In my case I am anticipating my stash to be less in the form of cash, and more in the form of real estate. Since my last break 3 1/2 years ago, I raised rent by $250/month, finished all major repairs (which drastically lowered property insurance). I contribute to my 401k, but only up to my employer's match. But before I take my next break, I want to add a second investment property (well, one that I will live in with a couple of roommates), and that's something I can see myself doing with each "break"....purchasing another property (and/or paying off a property, in addition to addressing potential repairs while still employed, and raising rents across the board).

@missbee Holy crap, that's amazing. I wish more employers would understand the importance of having a refreshed crop of employees at all times. Burn out is real...no matter what field you're in, or how much you initially enjoy it. I can see myself being a teacher in my later years because it follows a schedule that speaks to my desire to work hard for a time, and repose for a time.

[limeandpepper]

Have you seen this thread before? A bunch of us are doing it, and quite a few others contemplating it. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/early-retirement-vs-serial-mini-retirements/

A few years ago, I quit my full-time job and travelled for 5 months. When I got back I found a part-time/casual job, then last year I did the same thing, quit my job and travelled for 5 months again. I'm now working in another part-time/casual job. I can imagine myself taking another nice break again in another few years (though my current workplace is pretty cool and flexible so hopefully I won't have to quit third time around!).

[Lmoot]

^ wow, thank you for that link. I was especially intrigued by  arebelspy's reply:

I never did this, but if I had to do it over again, I would do it that way.


I'll have to go through that thread; sounds like that's where my people are! I'm hesitant of leaving because I enjoy my set up at my job, but when I go through the reasons why they wouldn't hire me back, I can't come up with any. By the time I leave, I'll have given them 5 good years, as an excellent employee, and there are at least 100 of my positions...there's no reason why I wouldn't get my job back. I think I might be able to get away with it at least twice :)

I am wondering when it's time, if I should be honest about why I'm leaving (and honest about wanting to return). Honesty and earnestness has gotten me far at work, in interviews, and with people in general (though corporations aren't people, ha!). This might be more difficult to do if you are indispensable or in an indispensable position...I process medical bills on a production-basis which means there are a lot of available positions at most given times.

[Freedomin5]

SWAMI = Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual

[Lmoot]

^ Thank you Freedomin5. Sounds like quite the title and achievement. I might barely qualify for Mustachian, let alone Advanced Mustachian...something to work towards for sure

Interesting story and perspective!

I like the concept of sabbaticals/mini-retirements, but it is tough to pull the trigger if you’re in a good (if uninspiring) job.

I wonder if FIRE is more appealing to disengaged workers who are highly compensated, and sabbaticals are more appealing to average or low income workers (it feels like less to lose).

I think you really hit on something there. Reading about others' race towards retirement and hearing their excitement is motivating...until I find out they earn triple what I do. I'm excited for them still, but it feels like a big let down when I compare it to my situation. I know it's often said one shouldn't compare, but sometimes you need to in order to bring a dose of reality. When you see something working for someone, and it's not working for you, it might be time to get off and try another ride.

If retirement is 10 years away for your income level...that's pretty damn motivating. If it's 25 years away...not as motivating as a break only 3 years away. Someone not earning as much is, like you said, gambling with a much larger chunk of their life than someone earning much more. And that's no small thing.

[ol1970]

I say you kind of have already found what is going to make you happy in retirement and you probably are going to be able to make an income while doing it.  Driven individuals such as yourself are highly resilient and always find a way to make things work.  Plugging away the best years of your life only to FIRE to something that you can earn a living at now is kind of silly.  Unfortunately for me my FIRE plans don't really involve stuff you can earn a living doing so I went down the earn and save like hell path.  No wrong answer here, but don't feel you have to follow the same route as others.   The concept of FIRE is way overrated when compared to having things that your are passionate about.

[mschaus]

For everyone's reference, two relevant blog articles:

https://www.getrichslowly.org/types-of-retirement/

https://affordanything.com/mini-retirements-semi-retirement-early-retirement-whats-the-most-awesome-lifestyle/

[Lmoot]

^ Thank you so much for those links. I see that I left a comment on the GRS link that pretty much mirrors my original post haha.

And the little bit I've read so far from your second link (I've never heard of that blog before), I am absolutely loving. Some of my favorite bits:

"Life is more flexible than we’ve been conditioned to believe it is"

When I took my hiatus, something I would never have seen myself do (I used to be a creature of habit and fearful of the unknown), I learned this lesson. Unless you grew up in an entrepreneurial family, or your line of work requires a lot of self-start, or you grew up impoverished, many of us are conditioned to believe that a 40 hour, 9-5 is "the best way", and to attempt to break from that could lead to disastrous results, so we stay in a situation that does not necessarily gel with our individual instincts, and may actually go against it, leaving us (me) with a feeling of dissatisfaction or unease. Well I began to encounter that pressure again in a lot of the PF blogs...where one way was espoused over all others. Work work work. Invest Invest Invest (specifically in stocks), and I realized I'm once again drawn to something very different from I'm being told (not directly, but by means of popular opinion), I should be doing. So when I'm not succeeding at that particular path, it can create a feeling of failure. I am a lot more confident of my way now, so this is no longer an issue, but it's still nice to find your peeps and hear advice and stories based on your goals. So all that to say, I will be checking out that blog for sure :)

And what she says here 100% is exactly why I don't want to compartmentalize retirement to a specific point (or after a specific point) in my life:

The world changes rapidly, which means you should see it at all stages. I spent six weeks in Egypt in 2008 — two years before the Arab Spring Revolution. The Egypt that existed in 2008 is remarkably different than the one that exists today, and nothing can replace the opportunity to see that region in both the pre- and post- era.

In addition, you (yourself) change rapidly, as well. The first time I went to Costa Rica, when I was 20, I moved around from town to town … always on the go. When I went back last year, at age 30, I parked myself in one spot for two weeks, more interested in absorbing one locale than seeing the whole country. I don’t think that either is better or worse; they simply reflect the energy levels and priorities that I had at these two stages of life. Experience the world in all of them.

[YHD]

My situation is similar to @missbee — full pay with 3 month sabbatical at full pay.  Can take up to a year with prorated pay.  Every 7 years.  Best perk of the job.  Surprisingly, less than 10% of eligibles take it.

[Cookie78]

The state government here offers a deferred salary scheme where you work four years at 80% salary then take the fifth year off, also at 80% pay. One lady I work with is on her third round, she loves it.

My government employer also does this. I'm on my second round at the moment (with plans to officially FIRE within a year after I return) , but I could never plan ahead that long. I was thrilled when I found out that there is no set time commitment as described in this quote. Many people in my organization do it described as such (every 5th year off, 80%), but I set aside money in their system for 7 months, then took 6 months off. The second time I also planned 7 months ahead and took 1 year off.

At a prior company I negotiated my own 3 month leave by heavily emphasizing the benefits to the company.

Having rental income (or any other extra income) helps a lot to not set back the FIRE date too far. Having the breaks was incredibly valuable for me.

[ejbowlin]

I worked my butt off and saved a ton and invested it in the field I knew best (real estate). I started when I was 24 and was able to permanently leave the workforce at the age of 30.

It's doable and you can make it permanent. I bet if you worked an extra year or two without taking it off, you'd find yourself more permanently retired.

[Lmoot]

I worked my butt off and saved a ton and invested it in the field I knew best (real estate). I started when I was 24 and was able to permanently leave the workforce at the age of 30.

It's doable and you can make it permanent. I bet if you worked an extra year or two without taking it off, you'd find yourself more permanently retired.

Wow that’s impressive good for you! I am in my 30’s and working a few more years would mean likely not doing any of the big things I want to do, until my 40’s. I take home less than $50k and don’t see that changing much in the near future.

I’ve realized retiring very early permanently does not really appeal to me, at least not to the point of making even more sacrifices than I already make. I’m at the point in my journey where I want to start reaping rewards, albeit in a gradual and rationed way. Because every year it’s the same thing… I work just a little bit more, I’ll just get another job, I’ll just do more overtime… And it just never stops. And then at some point I found myself miserable every day. I’ve decided I don’t want to be miserable any day if I can help it.

There is no guarantee I’ll make it to my 40s, so every year I hold back is a big gamble. I may not be able to do everything on my list, but dammit I’m going to get as much as I can done before I kick it.