Author Topic: FIRE not as good as you expected?  (Read 10333 times)

Asgard01

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FIRE not as good as you expected?
« on: August 02, 2014, 12:49:24 PM »
Hi all,

I have asked in a previous post about what achieving and being FI feels like. I was just curious on one slant of this whereby has anyone achieved FI and then retired or worked part time and it not work out as they planned? Was it not as sweet once the honey moon period was over, was it a bit of an anti climax? Sure you may prefer to be FIRE'd but was it a little bit of a let down for anyone? Did you adapt to it quite quickly? I wonder if this would be the case for anyone who is honest enough to admit that. If people choose to run after FI and to retire early purely as a means of a escape from something they don't like I wonder if it would be all they expected it to be after that initial cool down/euphoric period.

My father achieved FI at 40, not through any deliberate actions like this movement but just with an inheritance and being in a family that he could work for the family business, that closed when he was 40 and he had enough money to live off the interest. My dad as much as I love him was miserable before he was FI and is still miserable hehe. His personality or experience of life certainly didn't change much, he just found new things to be pissed off about and focused on those things that he still didn't like. Don't get me wrong, he would still prefer to be as he is and if you reminded him about his situation he is in, he might feel good for a bit but then he will settle down into day to day living that is pretty much the same old. What I'm getting at is that his lived experience didn't really change that much, he was still his same old self.

Can anyone relate to that?

Chris

deborah

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2014, 03:33:39 PM »
You seem to be asking about the relationship between happiness and FIRE.

People with more money tend to be somewhat happier than people with less money - but this diminishes as you go above the average money for that society. People tend to be happiest when they are very young and very old - and are most miserable when they are in their 30s and 40s. People tend not to change happiness much (apart from this curve).

However, if you have a gratitude journal, exercise, take notice of your surroundings you can become much happier. MMM seems to have done all those things as a result of FIRE, and he encourages other people to practice them. In a sense, the blog is MMMs gratitude journal. He encourages us to think before we buy - that means that we effectively become grateful of any purchase, and take much more notice of our surroundings. He also encourages us to exercise more. By living a frugal lifestyle, we effectively have more money than our peers. All these things probably make us happier.

In answer to your question - yes I am much happier since I FIREd, and it is better than I expected. I expected it to be pretty much the same, just without the hassles of work, so I guess my expectations weren't that high. However, each morning, I can appreciate the sunrise and how beautiful the valley below looks - and I appreciate that I can do this every day. When it is miserable outside, I appreciate that I don't NEED to go somewhere in the current weather. When it is nice (even for only a few minutes) I can take advantage of it, and go outside to do things. Things don't NEED to be done today - there is always tomorrow. This all gives me a deep satisfaction that I didn't anticipate. My father has cancer and my parents live far away. I can visit them whenever I want, without the conflicts that work would give - this also makes me much happier. These are all simple things, but they are available to me in FIRE, and weren't before. I think happiness is based on simple things.

Frankies Girl

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 03:40:41 PM »
I am FI, and should be RE within a year.

From what I've read, most folks that are early retired are pretty happy - MMM, Darrow Kirkpaktrick at Can I Retire Yet?, Jacob at ERE, Brave New Life, and lots and lots of others out there in the blogosphere that achieved FIRE are more than happy with their lives. But all of them made the effort and put some deep thought into their plans and what they were going to be doing after as well. The key is to make a conscious choice on your future plans and finding things that you love to do - whether it's a part time gig, hobbies, travel, spending time with friends and family, learning new things... the possibilities are limitless really.

Some people just don't want to be happy. If you're a pessimist or sort of lucked into being FI (in your dad's case) and have no plans or clear idea what the hell you want to do with the rest of your life, then sure, it might not be a super good time. It isn't just about keeping busy - it's about finding true joy and what is truly meaningful to you. If you're not a joyful person, it's going to damned difficult to suddenly change into that, and some folks never do. And there is the trite old saying that money doesn't buy happiness. It does buy the freedom to allow you to go find your happiness... or not as it were.

Some people spend their entire lives in a reactive state (things happen to them, but they aren't an active participant in the path their life takes). To be really happy, I think you need to be proactive - and go out there and find or make your own unique path.



« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 03:43:05 PM by Frankies Girl »

Asgard01

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2014, 03:56:27 PM »
Thanks Deborah and Frankies Girl for your replies. I know that there are people who certainly have enjoyed it as much as they thought but I just wondered if there was anyone who it just didn't work out for in the way they expected and how that might have been the case.

Chris

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 04:14:31 PM »
If you feel "defined by your job", then leaving it - whether FI, RE, both or neither - will likely be traumatic.  If work is truly something you do so you can live life outside of work, then leaving will likely be wonderful.

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 04:36:54 PM »
Also FI but not RE'd yet.

Studies show about 50% of your happiness is genetically set, so you can really only work on the remaining 50%.

And if the part of your mood that you can't control has been set by your DNA to the "horrible" position, not having to work isn't going to do anything to change that, unfortunately.

I see it this way:
FI empowers you to free your time so that you can actively work on improving that 50%, any way you see fit.  If you don't choose to work at it, you aren't going to get any happier.  Additionally, you will likely need a sense of purpose after RE, but it's up to you to choose what that is.  The majority of people with zero goals, direction, or drive get depressed after a while (although exceptions do exist.)  MMM has his family and construction projects, BNL is fixing up his house and runs microbusinesses, JMoneyseed is also going entrepreneurial, and so on, and that's at least part of the reason all of these folks are so content.

Although I haven't RE'd yet, the FI part of my life has been every bit as good as I thought it would be.  On a related note, I'm incredibly grateful to have figured out what constitutes 'enough' -- to no longer be chasing stuff that has no effect on my well-being -- and to feel empowered to say no to stuff at work that I don't want to do.  I'm much, much happier in just about every way and I can't wait to see how life is without having to do meaningless work in an office anymore. (Key word:  meaningless.)

Optional reading:
MMM wrote an interesting post on this subject that's relevant.

Also this thread might be of interest for you -- it touches on some of the same concerns.

Gray Matter

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 04:39:58 PM »
I worry that I won't be good at FIRE.  On the weekends, I am not generally happier than during the week days and sometimes less so.  I often feel aimless, or else I feel a lot of pressure to hurry up and relax or get all the things done that pile up during the week or both simultaneously!  I often procrastinate and do nothing, but I don't feel good doing it (it's sometimes worth doing nothing if you revel in it, but that's not what's going on). 

In some ways, I think FIRE will be better than working, because the pressure to relax or get things done should be gone, and I anticipate a much more natural pace.  But in terms of feeling aimless or restless, that could get worse, because I operate well with structure and deadlines (but am crap at respecting false/self-imposed deadlines or structure). 

In my current life, I am generally either rushing around, chronically behind, or sitting collapsed on the sofa, unable to move.  I am hoping that I can have a slower, steadier pace when FIRE, but I'm not sure if it's a personality thing or what.  I think it will be an opportunity for tremendous personal growth, some of which may be uncomfortable or challenging. 

Nords

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 10:14:38 PM »
I have asked in a previous post about what achieving and being FI feels like. I was just curious on one slant of this whereby has anyone achieved FI and then retired or worked part time and it not work out as they planned? Was it not as sweet once the honey moon period was over, was it a bit of an anti climax? Sure you may prefer to be FIRE'd but was it a little bit of a let down for anyone? Did you adapt to it quite quickly?
I'll admit it.

My FIRE didn't work out the way I'd planned it.

It's been way better than I ever thought it could be. 

For example, when I retired I didn't even have surfing on the radar-- and now it's my #1 or #2 activity (next to writing).  I thought I'd have to keep a tight rein on our spending, and I did so for the first 3-4 years, but I've stopped worrying about that.  I thought we'd be carrying our 8% mortgage on our home for 30 years, and that my parents-in-law would be squatting in our rental property for even longer, but both of those issues have been re-negotiated (so to speak).  I thought that I'd run out of things to do all day, and I even have a copy of Ernie Zelinski's Get-A-Life tree on my desk, but I just haven't found the time to work on it.

It's been over 12 years, and I'm not sure that the honeymoon is ever going to end.

I considered my first few FIRE job offers very seriously because I didn't want to miss out on an opportunity, but now I just smile. 

I think the key to a successful FIRE (regardless of your temperament) is the ability to be responsible for your own entertainment.  I think the people who deliberately achieve FIRE are more than capable of handling this responsibility, even if it falls into the category of "happily complaining". 

The ones who struggle with FIRE tend to be those whose FIRE is forced upon them by a layoff or a health/family crisis or some other event beyond their control.  As soon as they can resolve the crisis and regain control, they tend to seek the comforting embrace of the workplace for their structured routines and social stimulation.  I guess this is better than relying on their spouse/family to provide their daily entertainment (at least for the spouse/family), but being responsible for your own is still the best way to go.

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2014, 11:06:53 PM »
I worry that I won't be good at FIRE.  On the weekends, I am not generally happier than during the week days and sometimes less so.  I often feel aimless, or else I feel a lot of pressure to hurry up and relax or get all the things done that pile up during the week or both simultaneously!  I often procrastinate and do nothing, but I don't feel good doing it (it's sometimes worth doing nothing if you revel in it, but that's not what's going on). 

In some ways, I think FIRE will be better than working, because the pressure to relax or get things done should be gone, and I anticipate a much more natural pace.  But in terms of feeling aimless or restless, that could get worse, because I operate well with structure and deadlines (but am crap at respecting false/self-imposed deadlines or structure). 

In my current life, I am generally either rushing around, chronically behind, or sitting collapsed on the sofa, unable to move.  I am hoping that I can have a slower, steadier pace when FIRE, but I'm not sure if it's a personality thing or what.  I think it will be an opportunity for tremendous personal growth, some of which may be uncomfortable or challenging.

This post really struck a chord with me as it's exactly how I feel. I do know I get I lot of satisfaction out of completing a job well, but also have a tendency to rush jobs. I spend a crazy amount of time on the sofa at the moment and if I carry on with that when I retire nether myself or my wife will be happy.

I have amassed a workshop full of tools and besides 30 or so jobs around the house have a list of 10 or so new hobbies to start with the eventual idea of making pocket money out of a couple of them. I should be very busy, way more than I am now and am hoping that after everyday I can look back and say I achieved a few things.

I retire in September - so not long to wait.

RootofGood

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2014, 11:45:41 PM »
Almost one year into FIRE and it's been pretty awesome.  Not quite as awesome* as I imagined though.  But still WAAAAYYYYY better than working. 

I thought I would RE a few years later than I did when my 2 year old would have been more like 4-5 (therefore more self-sufficient and in school or close to it).  So it's a lot of work to take care of young kids (we have 2 older ones too), but still very rewarding to see him grow up. 

I did plan on retiring to spend more time with my kids, but didn't realize how exhausting it could be.  This next year will be easier since the 2 year old is almost potty trained and we can go out exploring more.

* I say it's not quite as awesome as I imagined just because I somehow imagined my daytime schedule to be all me me me when the reality is I have kids that need more attention right now.  As they get older they become less work (they can pick up their own toys, feed themselves, bathe, complete personal hygiene tasks on their own, etc).

I also imagined ER with my wife not working, but she still is working for now (well, returns to work tomorrow after 5 weeks paid time off).  I'm pretty sure she has less than a year before she quits, and who knows, she may quit tomorrow if things don't go well.  Our last 5 weeks off together were pretty awesome and she handled oodles of free time very well, so I think our long term ER will be a success and only get better over time.  :)

Gray Matter

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2014, 05:33:54 AM »
I worry that I won't be good at FIRE.  On the weekends, I am not generally happier than during the week days and sometimes less so.  I often feel aimless, or else I feel a lot of pressure to hurry up and relax or get all the things done that pile up during the week or both simultaneously!  I often procrastinate and do nothing, but I don't feel good doing it (it's sometimes worth doing nothing if you revel in it, but that's not what's going on). 

In some ways, I think FIRE will be better than working, because the pressure to relax or get things done should be gone, and I anticipate a much more natural pace.  But in terms of feeling aimless or restless, that could get worse, because I operate well with structure and deadlines (but am crap at respecting false/self-imposed deadlines or structure). 

In my current life, I am generally either rushing around, chronically behind, or sitting collapsed on the sofa, unable to move.  I am hoping that I can have a slower, steadier pace when FIRE, but I'm not sure if it's a personality thing or what.  I think it will be an opportunity for tremendous personal growth, some of which may be uncomfortable or challenging.

This post really struck a chord with me as it's exactly how I feel. I do know I get I lot of satisfaction out of completing a job well, but also have a tendency to rush jobs. I spend a crazy amount of time on the sofa at the moment and if I carry on with that when I retire nether myself or my wife will be happy.

I have amassed a workshop full of tools and besides 30 or so jobs around the house have a list of 10 or so new hobbies to start with the eventual idea of making pocket money out of a couple of them. I should be very busy, way more than I am now and am hoping that after everyday I can look back and say I achieved a few things.

I retire in September - so not long to wait.

Congrats on your upcoming retirement!  I'll be interested to hear how it goes (since we share some characteristics).  Ideally, you can figure it all out and then I can learn from your mistakes.  :-)


Gray Matter

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 05:42:54 AM »
Almost one year into FIRE and it's been pretty awesome.  Not quite as awesome* as I imagined though.  But still WAAAAYYYYY better than working. 

I thought I would RE a few years later than I did when my 2 year old would have been more like 4-5 (therefore more self-sufficient and in school or close to it).  So it's a lot of work to take care of young kids (we have 2 older ones too), but still very rewarding to see him grow up. 

I did plan on retiring to spend more time with my kids, but didn't realize how exhausting it could be.  This next year will be easier since the 2 year old is almost potty trained and we can go out exploring more.

* I say it's not quite as awesome as I imagined just because I somehow imagined my daytime schedule to be all me me me when the reality is I have kids that need more attention right now.  As they get older they become less work (they can pick up their own toys, feed themselves, bathe, complete personal hygiene tasks on their own, etc).

I also imagined ER with my wife not working, but she still is working for now (well, returns to work tomorrow after 5 weeks paid time off).  I'm pretty sure she has less than a year before she quits, and who knows, she may quit tomorrow if things don't go well.  Our last 5 weeks off together were pretty awesome and she handled oodles of free time very well, so I think our long term ER will be a success and only get better over time.  :)

Ah, yes, I remember those days.  Some days it was hard to find time to pee.  I also remember that it got dramatically better when the youngest turned three (the oldest was seven, the middle five).  All of a sudden things just seems so easy and fun.  I had room to breathe, time to think, and energy left over to do some things that I wanted.  We could go anywhere, do anything, and the world was still shiny and new enough to be interesting to them.  They were sophisticated enough to have amazing conversations with, but still young enough to believe in magic and miracles.  Truly a lovely time, a "golden era," and yours will be made all the better by having your wife there to share it with you.

marty998

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2014, 05:58:08 AM »
Do we have a doubting Thomas in the house? Noticing a lot of threads started by you with a negative mindset/outlook:

"FIRE not as good as you expected?"
"Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE"
"Neglecting the present?"

Whats the real story behind starting these threads? Do we need to have an intervention to change your mindset?

soccerluvof4

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2014, 06:10:50 AM »
This is a good question and I think for most it will result in them being happier than they were but that transition will be different.  I have been fire 2 1/2 years just waiting on my wife who originally wanted to work 2-3 more years because I own my own company but each week I would say the time frame is reduced. In fact I would say its going to be less than a year.

I have alot of lose ends yet that I have been working on and once they are resolved I think that will take help me feel even more comfortable in FIRE.  For example I have been selling stuff over the years but still have a Vacation home that just EATS at me that I havent sold. I own it outright so its at least 300k more of cash stashe and though we dont need the money a day doesnt go by that i dont think of it so I really want that off my plate. Its 4 hours away. Then the business. Close it and take the money in cash flow...sell to the employees etc.. I rather just shut it down and again walk away with the cash in the business but we will see. Its a service business so not much assets but great profit margins. The house we have we need to downsize as well. As many would call a mini MC Mansion but we own it outright. So that too will provide us with easily another 250k downsizing but its going through the process and making best decisions for us and the kids. We want this house to be our forever house and I would prefer to leave the state.

We still have 4 kids at home.  So that's an expense but definatley is better with me at home because they are doing chores everyday and get to spend time with them most Dads never get to. 2 in high School and 2 younger.

What I do enjoy is I have read more in the last 2 1/2 years than I did in my life. I watch maybe an hour of TV and I putz alot. I find I am not stressed in getting things done and look at things differently in terms of value. Some of this though is a combination of age and being Mustachian though.

I can say you really cant replace that feeling of freedom I have now but I will be happier yet when some of these other chains have been removed. I thought I might be bored as I was a triple A personality but I have really enjoyed the slow down.  I have got alot to learn as to really utilizing the free time the best I can but for me the transition has been a slow one but thats ok!! So while its not what I expected , there is no way i would want to be back stressed at work. I think to once my wife is done than I will have my best friend to hang with me as well.

So if anything I would say I am more miserable (and I am not) that I still have loose ends to resolve like I believe Nord said he did but at the end of the day I know they will get resolved.

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2014, 06:21:08 AM »
Do we have a doubting Thomas in the house? Noticing a lot of threads started by you with a negative mindset/outlook:

"FIRE not as good as you expected?"
"Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE"
"Neglecting the present?"

Whats the real story behind starting these threads? Do we need to have an intervention to change your mindset?





While I don't disagree with you that there is a trend there, personally I don't see anything wrong with him having doubt and asking the hard questions he feels he need answered till hes comfortable making the decision he is trying to make. I think on this blog there is a sense of mostly optimism and with his dad I am sure that has instilled as he mentioned some fears/concerns as well.  But as I believe as other posters said in the past when it comes to your dad its 100% your decision if you want to be like him or not. I knew growing up My mother was not who I wanted to take after ( God rest her soul) and I also didn't want to blame her for who I could of been.  I am not compassionate about people who cry all the time and blame there folks for things so to the OP keep asking the questions you have until you convince yourself or find the answers to what you your looking for.

Asgard01

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2014, 06:36:39 AM »
Do we have a doubting Thomas in the house? Noticing a lot of threads started by you with a negative mindset/outlook:

"FIRE not as good as you expected?"
"Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE"
"Neglecting the present?"

Whats the real story behind starting these threads? Do we need to have an intervention to change your mindset?

You've found me out! Hehe. I jest. I am fully behind the pursuit of FI which is evidenced by my mini obsession about this, achieving FI, checking spreadsheets, trying to save more and more, tweak spending, manual tracking all expenses etc. I am just being very honest in my threads about things I am finding along this path and I wonder if anyone relates which is why I start them. For example, I feel in myself am neglecting the present sometimes which over emphases on all of this so I wondered if I was alone with this. I also felt like I had a bit of an obsession with all this which I have now toned down a bit as it was affecting my lived experience which can't be good.

Also being very much into psychology and deeply interested in how that relates to a happy well lived life I wondered if the principles of hedonistic adaption, impact bias, negativity bias of the mind etc worked even when we reached the awesome goal of FI, hence the reason for this post. As for the criticisms post - this is genuinely interesting as I have had many thrown against me when discussing this goal which I have been defending with some gusto :).

Chris

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2014, 07:58:16 AM »
I strongly suspect that my FIRE experience will be pretty spectacular. I'll let you know in about a month. ;)

In all honesty, the only place I am ever bored and unsatisfied is at work. My hours spent away from the job are filled with things that make me happy. Soon, I will be able to do these things with no restraints. Why wouldn't FIRE be great?

Just yesterday, a pod of 30 orcas swam by - so close to the rocky shoreline on which I was perched that I could literally see the whites of their eyes. THIS is the kind of thing that I will be able to experience while I'm FIRE'd - more over, I will have the time to actively seek out such incredible things. The world is full of them. And no kids to slow me down. :)

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2014, 08:00:00 AM »
I don't really have the expectation that it's going to be some wonderful nirvana once I cross the "finish" line.  When I get there it'll be another day just like this one, except I'll have more options for how I can spend my time.

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2014, 08:46:03 AM »
I had a period of 8 years where I was a SAHM which I view as a trial run at retirement.  I can totally see why some personality types can have a problem adjusting, especially if you have been achievement oriented and non-stop school-college-job for your whole life.  I definitely floundered once the kids got older and began to go to school.  I like having somewhere to go and people to talk to every day, and the structure of getting up and going to work is a net positive for me, but the hours and culture required in the full time job I have is just too much for me to be ultimately happy.

I totally see myself retiring but still working 15-20 at Trader Joes or something, just for the structure of it and the interaction with people. 

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2014, 10:26:25 AM »
I pulled the plug in mid-January and after a rough adjustment period (which was undoubtedly worsened by my burnout and winter blues), it has been good.  I cannot say that it has been overwhelmingly joyful all the time: I am not wired that way.  What is really different is that my life is so much richer than it was when I had all this greyed-out cube time.  It looks like I will be starting a contract job in another month or two that more or less fell into my lap and although it will be vastly better than my last several jobs (flexibility, work 100% from home, minimal travel and when I do schlep it is to a place I want to visit more frequently anyway), I have significant trepidation about intruding on my new life.  Since it is a 1 year contract, I guess I will try it and see what happens at the end of a year.

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2014, 12:42:47 PM »
Ah, yes, I remember those days.  Some days it was hard to find time to pee.  I also remember that it got dramatically better when the youngest turned three (the oldest was seven, the middle five).  All of a sudden things just seems so easy and fun.  I had room to breathe, time to think, and energy left over to do some things that I wanted.  We could go anywhere, do anything, and the world was still shiny and new enough to be interesting to them.  They were sophisticated enough to have amazing conversations with, but still young enough to believe in magic and miracles.  Truly a lovely time, a "golden era," and yours will be made all the better by having your wife there to share it with you.

Exactly!  I know with our older 2 kids it certainly got a lot easier around 3 or 4 as they develop more autonomy and competence at basic skills.  We're making progress with the 2.25 year old (potty training, feeding himself without making a mess, speaking in sentences, entertaining himself sometimes, etc).  He still grabs my hand and drags me outside (away from the spreadsheets or chores or whatever non-fun stuff I might be doing) and makes me play too.  :)

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
Root, I know I am at risk of being labelled as a member of the IRP, but it sure sounds like you still have a job to me. ;)

RootofGood

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 01:32:27 PM »
Root, I know I am at risk of being labelled as a member of the IRP, but it sure sounds like you still have a job to me. ;)

It's definitely a job at times.  Nowhere near full time (at least the way I'm doing it).  The monetary pay sucks though. 

And I definitely deal with less piss and shit now than when I was working.  :)

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 01:48:27 PM »
Those are the golden years, old enough to reason with but the hormones of puberty have not hit yet.  Enjoy!

Ah, yes, I remember those days.  Some days it was hard to find time to pee.  I also remember that it got dramatically better when the youngest turned three (the oldest was seven, the middle five).  All of a sudden things just seems so easy and fun.  I had room to breathe, time to think, and energy left over to do some things that I wanted.  We could go anywhere, do anything, and the world was still shiny and new enough to be interesting to them.  They were sophisticated enough to have amazing conversations with, but still young enough to believe in magic and miracles.  Truly a lovely time, a "golden era," and yours will be made all the better by having your wife there to share it with you.

Exactly!  I know with our older 2 kids it certainly got a lot easier around 3 or 4 as they develop more autonomy and competence at basic skills.  We're making progress with the 2.25 year old (potty training, feeding himself without making a mess, speaking in sentences, entertaining himself sometimes, etc).  He still grabs my hand and drags me outside (away from the spreadsheets or chores or whatever non-fun stuff I might be doing) and makes me play too.  :)

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 01:52:29 PM »
I liked my job, I would happily have continued working.  I was worried about being bored, especially in the winter.  Now I love my life. I have relatively few deadlines, the ones I do have are of my choosing, and the pressure is gone.  I am at the point where if I start something new, something else will have to go.  My retired friends all say the same.

Now, I do need to point out that we are older, in our late 50's and 60's, so we may be slowing down just a tad physically.  But the joie de vivre is definitely there  ;-)

deborah

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 05:26:04 PM »
My FIRE didn't work out the way I'd planned it.

It's been way better than I ever thought it could be. 

For example, when I retired I didn't even have surfing on the radar-- and now it's my #1 or #2 activity (next to writing).  I thought I'd have to keep a tight rein on our spending, and I did so for the first 3-4 years, but I've stopped worrying about that.  I thought we'd be carrying our 8% mortgage on our home for 30 years, and that my parents-in-law would be squatting in our rental property for even longer, but both of those issues have been re-negotiated (so to speak).  I thought that I'd run out of things to do all day, and I even have a copy of Ernie Zelinski's Get-A-Life tree on my desk, but I just haven't found the time to work on it.
+1

I spent time before I retired working out what I would do, my priorities, what was lacking in my life, and what else would be lacking when I retired. I worked out ways to fill the holes. For instance, I decided I had few friends, and when I left work I might have even less social interaction. So, I decided to join clubs (people with similar interests are more likely to become friends, and clubs have social interaction) - one every 6 months. This failed. The instant I joined a club it folded (this happened 3 consecutive times!).

I was going to start a business, write a blog. These haven't happened either.

However, there are all sorts of other things that retirement has brought. I am currently writing three books - one on each of my parents, and one on my family's WW1 soldiers (I have found more than 50 so far). This is all a lot of fun, and of benefit to others. But none of it was on my radar.

Do we have a doubting Thomas in the house? Noticing a lot of threads started by you with a negative mindset/outlook:

"FIRE not as good as you expected?"
"Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE"
"Neglecting the present?"

Whats the real story behind starting these threads? Do we need to have an intervention to change your mindset?

Yes, I was a doubting Thomas. I worried that not fitting in at work meant I would not fit in at retirement.  I worried about not having enough money to retire. I worried that my partner and I wouldn't really get on in retirement, and it would destroy a 30 year bond. I worried that I would be lonely and bitter. I worried that I was a negative person and would remain negative.

Work was so untenable that retirement had to be better. It has been better than my wildest dreams. However, I think, being a doubting Thomas has made retirement better, because I thought through all my doubts, read a lot about retirement, and worked out strategies. Even though I haven't used most of those strategies, they are still available to me, so I have many options. But retirement is wonderful, and more options are opening up all the time.

brewer12345

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2014, 05:47:32 PM »
Deborah, if you have not already been you should absolutely go see the WWI museum and national memorial in Kansas City.  It is an absolute treasure.  I am looking forward to taking the kids in a couple years when they are old enough.

deborah

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2014, 07:23:40 PM »
Deborah, if you have not already been you should absolutely go see the WWI museum and national memorial in Kansas City.  It is an absolute treasure.  I am looking forward to taking the kids in a couple years when they are old enough.
Thanks for the information. However, I'm in Australia. As the US was only in the war for the last year, Kansas City may not have much on what I am interested in, and they probably don't have much on Australia. We lost 1.4% of our population, the US lost .13% - less than 1/10th, so it had a much more significant effect here. Twice as many were supposedly wounded. Recently the figures for wounded have been questioned, as the war records seem to tell a different story. We have most of the war records online. Only one of the 50 that I have found was NOT wounded - whereas about 8 died. This had an incredible effect on the communities.

MsRichLife

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2014, 08:20:48 PM »
If you feel "defined by your job", then leaving it - whether FI, RE, both or neither - will likely be traumatic.  If work is truly something you do so you can live life outside of work, then leaving will likely be wonderful.

I can identify with this. We are FI. My husband is ER/SAHD. His departure from the workforce wasn't entirely his choice though. An injury sustained at work saw him layed off which roughly coincided with the arrival of our son. Because DH didn't really get to 'choose' ER, it's been a really tough transition for him. So much of his identity was rolled up into what he 'did' for a living and because of his injury, many of his hobbies no longer bring him the joy they used to. For him, ER has been boring and isolating, but he's slowly getting on top of it.

I guess my point is that enjoyment of FIRE is probably going to be very much dependent on one's personal circumstances and chosen attitude.

brewer12345

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2014, 08:26:32 PM »
Deborah, if you have not already been you should absolutely go see the WWI museum and national memorial in Kansas City.  It is an absolute treasure.  I am looking forward to taking the kids in a couple years when they are old enough.
Thanks for the information. However, I'm in Australia. As the US was only in the war for the last year, Kansas City may not have much on what I am interested in, and they probably don't have much on Australia. We lost 1.4% of our population, the US lost .13% - less than 1/10th, so it had a much more significant effect here. Twice as many were supposedly wounded. Recently the figures for wounded have been questioned, as the war records seem to tell a different story. We have most of the war records online. Only one of the 50 that I have found was NOT wounded - whereas about 8 died. This had an incredible effect on the communities.

Gotcha.  The museum has coverage of all participants of the war, especially since the US was late to the party.  KC is a bit far from Oz, though.  In any case if you ever find yourself in the region, you would likely find it worthwhile.

Daisy

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 12:40:35 AM »
I strongly suspect that my FIRE experience will be pretty spectacular. I'll let you know in about a month. ;)

In all honesty, the only place I am ever bored and unsatisfied is at work. My hours spent away from the job are filled with things that make me happy. Soon, I will be able to do these things with no restraints. Why wouldn't FIRE be great?

Just yesterday, a pod of 30 orcas swam by - so close to the rocky shoreline on which I was perched that I could literally see the whites of their eyes. THIS is the kind of thing that I will be able to experience while I'm FIRE'd - more over, I will have the time to actively seek out such incredible things. The world is full of them. And no kids to slow me down. :)

Here I go quoting Jon_Snow again - but, dang it, he's just so good. Yes, totally this!

When people worry about being bored during FIRE, I reflect on the boringest parts of my week and it's usually when I'm sitting at work in the middle of a meeting thinking I could easily be transplanted into the woman in the Dilbert cartoons (with better hair).

Although I love the people I work with and the surroundings are about as great as you can get for a 9-5 cubicle life, it's still infinitely more boring that my outside-of-work life.

I had a small taste of FIRE a few years ago while unemployed, and it was fantastic. I want to make sure the next time I try it out I am over the financial shackles that prevented me from going full blown FIRE the last time around.

The other thing that can minimize FIRE's awesomeness is not having other FIRE'd people around me or to travel with to enjoy it with. I suspect I'll be hanging around the 60 and 70 year old retired folks in my cycling club a lot. They hold a Wednesday afternoon bike ride for the unemployeds, the underemployeds, the self-employeds, and the never-again-employeds (retired folks). I rode with them during my unemployed period.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 12:58:49 AM by Daisy »

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2014, 09:18:30 AM »
Deborah, if you have not already been you should absolutely go see the WWI museum and national memorial in Kansas City.  It is an absolute treasure.  I am looking forward to taking the kids in a couple years when they are old enough.
+1 we went last month. It is a really neat museum.

arebelspy

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Re: FIRE not as good as you expected?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2014, 11:50:30 AM »
His personality or experience of life certainly didn't change much, he just found new things to be pissed off about and focused on those things that he still didn't like. Don't get me wrong, he would still prefer to be as he is and if you reminded him about his situation he is in, he might feel good for a bit but then he will settle down into day to day living that is pretty much the same old. What I'm getting at is that his lived experience didn't really change that much, he was still his same old self.

"If you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it."  -John Candy, Cool Runnings

Get yourself right.  FIRE is just more of that.
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