FIRE has triggered intense anxiety and depression.

[Moonwaves]

... I was totally confused after being placed in foster care as to why they felt I needed a babysitter and why I was not permitted to mow the lawn again until I was a teenager, since I often did whatever I wanted as a kid and had no real supervision most of the time.

Feeling this in my bones. As an 11-year-old, I helped my 21-year-old sister manage the household after my mum died and honestly thought nothing of it. I was always a bit of an organiser and someone had to do it. (Example: I'd make the list of groceries we needed, walk to the supermarket and do the shopping and then phone her to drive over to pick me and all the shopping up. This was actually something I really enjoyed doing.) Then, as a 12-year-old, my (evil) stepmother was treating me like a child I certainly didn't feel like and I was even forbidden to use the cooker (what you call a stove in the US, I think). Very confusing and frustrating.

[lhamo]

I'm sorry you are still struggling.

For a variety of reasons, I have gone down a rabbit hole with the Mormon Stories podcast over the last several weeks.  Most of the episodes are long-form life history interviews with people who are on various points of a journey out of the Mormon community following a faith crisis.  That general theme may not interest you, but this particular episode that centered on on lady's journey out of Mormanism into philosophy -- and nihilism in particular -- and then back out again to absurdism might resonate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdj17OFvZM

There are timestamps if you want to jump directly to the more philosophical oriented discussion.

Maybe not something everyone can do, but I found it inspiring, especially where she is now where she just looks for what joy she can find in the every day aspects of life.  That is what I am trying to focus on now and it has helped a lot over the past few weeks (SAD is a thing I stuggle with mightily).

[kork]

I can relate to this, but I figured out in my 20s that the "real adults" are never going to show up.

I was just chatting with a suicidal 13 year old about this the other day. He was feeling like every adult around him was full of shit and just as fucked up and foolish deep down as all of his peers. I shrugged and I was like "yeah, pretty much, life is just perpetual middle school with higher stakes." He actually found this incredibly reassuring because he was feeling like he was surrounded by defective adults and he was particularly fucked because everyone he turned to for help was not acting like a "real" grown up. I was like "n'ah man, they're all pretty much like that, and it's totally normal to feel like the people and systems you depend on are fucked up, because they are."

This is a better way of describing it. It's not that I'm waiting for the adult in the room to show up, it's that I expected that when I became an adult, there would be other adults behaving like... adults.  Making wise choices and good decisions, teaching their children to be honest and kind and considerate while their kids rebel (only to be destined to grow into adulthood).

But rather, we live in a world where those bullies in highschool became political leaders. Starting wars and fighting. The behaviour of women who are separating is particularly interesting. It's like they revert right back to their old self before they were married.  Divorced Moms(from my observation) of teenage girls are especially horrible. So many are "best friends" with their teen daughters, teaching them how to be "strong women" but what that really means is "step on everyone to get to the top." It's like a real world version of "Mean Girls" but with adults. Men are the same lying, cheating bullies they always were, jut older and perhaps a little more tired and beaten down.

Of course, there's shades of grey to everything, but to the perpetual middle school with higher stakes, yes, BANG ON!

[kork]

So it's been a month since my last post.  Feeling pretty vulnerable these days.

My daughter who's 17 is great. She's sweet and caring and kind. We've had our struggles with her, especially during all the lockdowns and navigating through self-harm, etc...  But she listens and she's very aware. She's typically pleasant and in a good mood.  It's her default.

I feel as though there's a horizon for her and I to get through her teenage years with a very strong relationship. A close relationship. A trusting relationship. A loving relationship.

But with my other daughter, I don't know how she's going to become an adult and not hate me. She's stubborn and relentless. She also gets herself worked up about things.  Her grades are in the high 90's, a competitive swimmer and has won her first violin scholarship. But, she's hard on herself and selfish. She does not take criticism well and she keeps score. Oh does she ever keep score.

My mom tells me that my oldest daughter is an anomaly. To be 17 and be as kind and considerate as her is rare.

But she says my 14 year old is a typical teenager.

Here's my vulnerability though.

When I was a kid, I loved skiing with friends. On the wind chilled trek down the hill, we'd hit jumps and carve back and forth. Sometime's we'd hit snow drifts, we'd slice through powder or we'd wipe out. Then we'd jump on the chairlift and talk about video games that were coming out or what we were going to do that night or whatever.  When it got too cold, we'd head into the chalet with the nice warm roaring fireplace, grab some fries or a chocolate bar (Oh Henry for me!) and warm up. Friendships were so easy. They were just, fun. We'd see people we knew from school but as strong skier's, we could show off. We were in our element. And it was always night skiing. The lights would light up the hill, sometimes we'd have giant snowflakes and it was never busy at night. In hindsight, it was heaven on earth.

And for all the joy skiing brought me, I've wanted to allow my daughters to enjoy the same thing. And they do. Both my girls are downhill skiers.

Last year, my youngest daughter and I were out skiing at the same ski resort I used to ski as a kid. I took her out of school so we could ski. It wasn't the first time but she had recently started skiing with friends. Half way though our skiing, she got herself upset because she wasn't having as much fun as when she's skiing with friends. She was feeling guilty. I get it. I explained how much fun I had skiing with friends too.

Fast forward to two nights ago. I was already a little frustrated because my 14 year old was pushing my buttons with her selfishness. I dropped them off skiing only to come back 2 hours later to pick them up.

I would ski with them, but I hate being in "dad mode" while on the hills. Not only that, but I find that the memories of skiing easily overshadow the present skiing. I hate that, but it's true. And when I'm skiing with my daughters, no matter what I say or do, I'm still a dad. More so with my youngest. It feels laboured.  It's the nature of the relationship, not the actions or mindset.

As we're on the way home after picking them up and being the driver all night, I had music on.  The song "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia came on and it was reminiscent of when I was growing up. Back when I was my younger self. I'm not sure why this song in particular touched me, but it did. Then "Bittersweet Symphony" by The Verve came on and just kept me in my place of hurt.

I started to tear up. I was reminiscing those very memories of skiing with my best friend. A best friend who shared these memories with me. The black jacket with the neon pink and yellow on it. And as we moved through life, I took the responsible route — went to school, embarked on a career, started a family.

In the meantime, he took a different route.  By grade 12 he was getting married and first child arrived soon thereafter. By 25, he was on his third marriage with 4 kids. By 30 he was homeless. We kept in touch but his life was too threatening to my family so it was at arms reach.

But as kids and teens, we were super close. Shared weekends, video game together, ski'd together.

His death was a mystery to me. One person says it was an infection that spread through his body and they couldn't catch it in time. My feeling is it was drug or alcohol abuse, but I can't get any clear answers and his existence was somewhat enigmatic in his final years.

He was my best friend as a kid.

--

Then last night I went out skiing again.  I went out with my oldest daughter for a few hours. My youngest daughter went off with friends. It was a good time.

But then last night  I dreamed that I was on a bus. My best friend was there too. He was unharmed from life.  He was a healthy version of how I remember him. At the end of my dream, I asked him if he wanted to go skiing and then I woke up.  In the transition of being asleep and waking up, the song "My Heart Will Go On" was playing in my mind.  Specifically, the beginning verse which is "Every night in my dreams, I hear you, I feel you" — It was upsetting.

So as I struggle through this portion of adulthood, with kids and with loss, I find myself holding back the tears and trying valiantly to move forward, but stuck.

[Bruinguy]

It's bound to happen as the kids get older, just didn't think it would be at 14.

You are not alone. I have seen a lot of dads dealing with this, including me, lately.  Some seem to be dealing with it better than others!

I too was surprised that I would have to reckon with my kids growing up and the changing dynamic of our family at 14. On reflection, I had a vision that, because I was more present, supporting, and understanding than my parents, that when my kids grew up I would have a closer relationship with them than I had with my parents.

It threw me a bit when reality was not matching my vision, even in subtle ways.

I really had to work to let go of my expectations and realize that I could not expect (that I was not entitled?) to a really close relationship with my kids [as long as I “was a good dad”] now or in the future.

The converse of that was realizing that my kids were not “wrong” or “bad” if they don’t want to tell me their problems, or help me solve them, or otherwise meet my expectations.

Please don’t take this to mean that I have disengaged as a result. I am still working to show up and be a part of their lives today in the best way that I can.  I still try to find ways to engage with them, to enjoy the time that they are living with me. But, it probably has allowed me to hear them more, and listen better, to what they are saying. And to recognize them as their own person with their own interests, needs, wants etc. all of which are ok and are not a commentary/statement directed at me.

Just one more thought on “selfishness.”  That’s come up for me and I’ve struggled to decide whether it’s that or just knowing what they need and are willing to state it. If it’s the latter, that is a good thing that will serve them.  Since I can’t really know their thoughts, I have tried to assume it is the latter.

It’s tough!

[BicycleB]

Best wishes on getting through this.

Fwiw, I personally think shedding some tears for a lost friend is perfectly fine.

[BigLumox]

Kork, sorry you are going thru this.

Not to sound weird, but I just wanted to compliment you on you writing. You are a very talented writer. You convey your thoughts and feelings very well.

Hope things improve for you soon.

[kork]

Not to sound weird, but I just wanted to compliment you on you writing. You are a very talented writer. You convey your thoughts and feelings very well.

Thank-you. 

I often wish that I could just attach a probe into my brain and "export" the actual thoughts and emotions and not have them be restricted by primitive words. I feel like the complexity of what I'm trying to communicate is like explaining rocket science using grunts and whistles.

But here we are again. Early March.

A fair amount of happenings within the last month.

My Sister-in-laws marriage is falling apart. They're losing the house and marriage is ending after decades together. There's no money. Like... Zero.
My brother's engagement just ended and they called off the wedding. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
My step-father is an alcoholic and it's getting worse and he doesn't care.
My step-sister and step-brother are toxic and there's a good chunk of family drama that's causing division and divide from that.

And it's all within 15 minutes driving distance.

Almost 15 years ago, we moved back to our home town so we could raise our children in a place we once loved. Not just loved, but really, really loved. It was such a nice feeling to be able to ride my bike down the same street I did as a kid and feel a hit of nostalgia. That comfort knowing that we were wrapped up in the warm blanket of "home." To know that I might walk into a store and see a childhood friend and we could catch up. To realize that the Facebook friends are still "real people" and not just social media stories. There was just a nice feeling to come back home and have my kids go to the same public school that I went to and that my mom went to. Three generations. Kinda cool!

That feeling is gone. It's been replaced with sadness and sorrow. I'm cold to it. My job is remote. I can move anywhere but but we're stuck here for now. The kids don't want to move. Their friends are here. Their "base" has been built here.

And I'm terrified to disrupt their childhood?  Why?

All of my siblings have had therapy (likely too much therapy), but the common denominator is our childhood. Things that happened in our youth that we all remember differently. We didn't have a bad upbringing, but it was pretty messed up. Silently traumatic. None of us can pinpoint exactly what it is, but it's almost like looking back and realizing how close to the side of the cliff we were walking, unknowingly. It's kindof terrifying in hindsight and knowing that our current "selves" are a result of that.

In the last week, it's become very apparent with my step-sister. She's harbouring all kinds of resentment that she'll likely never get over. It's messy and volatile.

So... I muscle it out for my kids. I broached the subject of moving cities for new adventure with them and there's no interest. They're happy where we are.  I am not. There's still three more years of high school for my youngest.

I'm looking at purchasing a second property, a condo, and using it as an air-bnb AND as a place that I can go to get away from where we currently live.

In many ways, I'm jealous of the people I mentioned above where their lives are falling apart and they get to rebuild. They're being thrust into situations where they need to react.

But for me, there's no thrusting.  If I were to lose my job tomorrow, oh well. My net worth has gone up $160k in the last 2 months.

And most uncomfortably, my wife.

We got together when I was 18. Before her, there were crushes and whatnot, but she's my first "real" long-term relationship. And it's now been almost 30 years. My feelings for her was super strong and it was for years. But 30 years later, I look at the person in front of me and barely recognize her. This person in front of me has replaced the person I fell in love with.

It's like the scene from About Schmidt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uvyLOh747Q

"Helen and I have been married 42 years. Lately...every night. I find myself asking the same question: Who is this old woman who lives in my house?"

Only, that I've loved her enough in the past that there's enough "love gas" in the tank to allow me to drive for centuries in hopes that it'll come back. I feel that she's the last thing I would consider giving up.

And finally, I don't like myself.

I don't like the thoughts in my head. I don't like who I see in the mirror. There's a song I'm really reflecting with called "A little Bit Happy" by Talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLaYAiX_dw

There's a verse "If I could see, how you see me, I could be... A little bit happy."

I don't like myself for feeling selfish and afraid. To feel that the only reason I don't want to disrupt my kids lives is so that I don't end up the topic of a therapy session. So I suck it up, I signed up for this when I had kids!

So anyways, just some more meandering thoughts that occupy my headspace as I move forward one day at a time, not blowing things up and having my kids end up in therapy like the rest of us.

Anyways, that's where I'm at. I suppose this thread has turned into more a journal than anything.

[lhamo]

I'm sorry things continue to be so hard and that you feel trapped.

Is there one thing in your life that consistently gives you joy? 

When I was in a pretty bad place a few years ago, I started gardening.  We had bought a house that had pretty minimalistic/poorly done landscaping.  Over the 6 years that we owned it I learned a lot about permaculture and other minimal-impact, restorative growing techniques and gradually (and inexpensively) transformed it into a place of natural abundance.  It was one important piece in giving me back the confidence that I could rebuild my life in a way that was meaningful and pleasurable to me and others I cared about as my 20+ year marriage fell apart. 

I hope you can find something to pour yourself into as you figure out what eventually comes next.

[ludak75]

Wow, I just stumbled upon this but can relate to much of it.

I am 48, wife is 52, kid is 17.

Wife and kid have OCD and ADHD. Kid started showing signs around 12, pandemic hit and everything turned to chaos. 
Wife and kid are in therapy.

Kid is in 11th grade, very smart, barely goes to school. Somehow the school keeps bending and she continues to pass... but her future is looking very bleak.
Wife has become co-dependent on me.. probably my fault. I am very independent and find myself smothered.

I hope to have a light at the end of the tunnel, but divorce will throw a huge wrench into my FIR plans.

I enjoy reading your posts and its comforting to see that others are dealing with life as well.

[big_owl]

Very similar to what I went through at 38yo, existentialism,.depression, anxiety, etc.  Looking back at it, it was basically classic midlife crisis tied in with being very wealthy and not really having to strive for a particular goal in life. In that regard, fire actually did contribute to my problems because I didn't need to work for money anymore.  Suddenly I lost my purpose.  And the physical things I used to do (bodybuilding) started their long trajectory downhill as I was.past my physical prime.  I basically had to mourn the death of my longtime love as I just got weaker and weaker every year.  In any case, FF to today and I'm about 85% better.  Things that helped me:

1. Finding new purpose - I have embraced being a "gentleman expert" in a number of hobbies.  My biggest challenge is teaching myself partical physics and field theory along with cosmology and astrophysics.  I'm an atheist which also contributed to my problems, but I'm always so baffled by the universe and how it was formed and what it's made.of.  so I decided to actually learn it down to the calculus.  I'm an engineer so luckily have a.strong math background already and that helped.  I have a number of other hobbies in parallel and they all give me purpose and something to look forward to. 

2. Therapy - too long to go through it all but it took several tries to find the right person and it's improved every aspect of my life.

3. Medication - your first post highlighted a bad experience with Zoloft, I don't recall if you tried anything else and I'm not going to sift through the thread so maybe this is redundant...honestly your experience was pretty normal for starting an SSRI.  Symptoms often get way worse before they get better.  Whenever I start an SSRI or SNRI my anxiety goes to level 15 for about a month. I can't sleep, get nauseous, lose weight, am so stressed out even just tying my shoes feels like running a 10k,.my skin is on fire, my wife hides our guns.  The first time I went through it I was very scared .  But now I just expect it and it always passes . Took 13 different combinations and 4.yeqrs to find the right combo that works for me, but once I did life just became so much better.  Point being, unless I'm misreading your posts, it looks like you've been at this for almost half a decade and from over here it seems like whatever you're doing, isn't working.  Medication is a pretty easy, though sometimes tedious, life preserver to get you into a place where you can make the tough choices to get better.  As my.mental health has improved I've.been able to reduce dosage without any negative effects. 

There's some five alarm fire in your life that you are ignoring and trying to shut down.  But you aren't fooling your body so that smoke alarm is just continuing to go off.  Ultimately that's the answer to getting through this - whether it's leaving your marriage, moving, finding a new career, etc.