FIRE has triggered intense anxiety and depression.

[NonprofitER]

This thread is amazing. Thank you for sharing your situation so openly and vulnerably. I hope it is continuing to help.

But as someone who is new to the thread, I feel the need to say --->

Kork, do you think you would feel any different if your wife was 8 years younger, and not older.

Reason I say this is one of my friends was unhappily married to his wife who was several years older than him. He never seemed to have any spunk, just went through the motions.

Fast fwd 4 years and he has since divorced and is engaged to a woman 9 years younger. Now all of a sudden he has all this vigor. They go rock climbing, surfing, you name it.

He eats healthy now, goes to gym etc. He's never looked better physically or mentally. It's like the younger woman was his fountain of youth pill.

Women are not fountain of youth pills. Ever. 
I repeat: [younger] women are not fountain of youth pills. AKA: objects, signifiers, muses, etc.
It not a woman's job to keep a man feeling young, virile, inspired, etc. 
Likewise, women already have immense social pressure to "age gracefully" while "seemingly not aging at all".

Directing one's energy at a new object of desire can give someone a [temporary] boost of biologically intoxicating oxytocin -- or perhaps gives them an opportunity to redefine their identity adjacent to a new partner. But self-destructing families/relationships in MLC to chase a younger woman is a temporary band-aid to the meta issues. Not to mention subsequent relationships tend to have a higher failure rate.

Gratefully, the OP has been clear on this throughout.

[dcheesi]

This thread is amazing. Thank you for sharing your situation so openly and vulnerably. I hope it is continuing to help.

But as someone who is new to the thread, I feel the need to say --->

Kork, do you think you would feel any different if your wife was 8 years younger, and not older.

Reason I say this is one of my friends was unhappily married to his wife who was several years older than him. He never seemed to have any spunk, just went through the motions.

Fast fwd 4 years and he has since divorced and is engaged to a woman 9 years younger. Now all of a sudden he has all this vigor. They go rock climbing, surfing, you name it.

He eats healthy now, goes to gym etc. He's never looked better physically or mentally. It's like the younger woman was his fountain of youth pill.

Women are not fountain of youth pills. Ever. 
I repeat: [younger] women are not fountain of youth pills. AKA: objects, signifiers, muses, etc.
It not a woman's job to keep a man feeling young, virile, inspired, etc. 
Likewise, women already have immense social pressure to "age gracefully" while "seemingly not aging at all".

Directing one's energy at a new object of desire can give someone a [temporary] boost of biologically intoxicating oxytocin -- or perhaps gives them an opportunity to redefine their identity adjacent to a new partner. But self-destructing families/relationships in MLC to chase a younger woman is a temporary band-aid to the meta issues. Not to mention subsequent relationships tend to have a higher failure rate.

Gratefully, the OP has been clear on this throughout.

Yeah, and if the guy is feeling better physically, it's more likely because the new lifestyle he adopted (to keep up with the new SO) is more healthful, rather than some mysterious youth-by-association effect. I've recently experienced similar benefits, but my lifestyle improvements were spurred by a new shared commitment to health with my current SO (who happens to be several years older than me).

[wenchsenior]

Wow, this hits home. Right from the blog post.

"Then something strange happened.  In early 2012, I got a job that gave me a lot more free time.  It sounds great, but here’s the weird part:  After initially feeling much better, about a year after I started, I developed a mild case of depression."

[ADDED] - But after reading through 8 pages,  doesn't feel too familiar. It seems like Dr.Doom had a small number of challenges... I suspect that my therapy may last longer than 5 sessions, but who knows.  Maybe there's a lynchpin?

I think he had more than 5, he doesn't really even start working on the specific problems until he says appointments "5-6". But yes, his specific issues may well be different. I think the point I was trying to make is more that you're not alone in this, lots of people have issues when confronting middle age, retirement, and other massive life changes. Lord knows I do. Hang in there.

Yes, I do see that.

I have my first therapy next Wednesday and had an initial conversation with the therapist today.  I'm hopeful.

I was listening to the radio today and the announcer said something to the effect that Eminem turns 50 in only a few short years.

<blink><blink> No, that can't be true... He grew up in a trailer park with his mom... That was only a few years ago...

So yeah, still feeling like I literally blinked and all of a sudden, old, not young. It's almost like my brain is capable of time travel but can only seem to go forward and feel nostalgic about the past.

This is truly messing with me. I was at the dentist today...  Looked at the dental hygienist that 6 months ago I would consider being around my moms age... only... I realized that she was my age.....

W.....T.....F....???

Was watching American Beauty last night...  I'm the same age as Lester Burnham (played by Kevin Spacey) in the movie...  He makes a comment about how much the price of weed has gone up since 1973 (movie came out in 1999).  25 years...   The difference of 1973 to 1999 is the same as 1993 to 2019...  One timeline seems like ancient history...  the other seems just like yesterday.

Lester Burnham looks and acts like a grown up to me.  I much more relate to Paul Rudd in "This is 40." Perhaps it's a generational thing?

Mind...blown...   I didn't see this coming. Like a rabbit punch out of nowhere.

Kill me when I start wanting to decorate the home with "old person" paintings of a horse looking at a sunset over a barn.

Welcome to middle age LOL.  I kid (gently), but with real sympathy.   A couple years ago I realized that I was now older than the age of most of the celebrity 'sexy older men' crushes I had in my teens and 20s.  In fact, some of those crushes are DEAD now. 

Life seems to go faster and faster as we get older. I routinely now 'forget' an entire decade when trying to remember dates (it's like my brain just skips the 2000s...I will think: "Oh, that album came out about 15 years ago," when it will actually be 25 years ago). But of course, the 1990s stay vivid in my mind, it being the decade I was in college/having fun/becoming an an adult.  It seems more 'real' to me than the 2000s, in many ways.

I think this is very typical. Midlife crisis is a cliche for a reason.  The 40s are tough psychologically.  For those with kids, many of the kids are approaching college and getting ready to leave the nest.  Most of us are start to deal with the unpleasant realities of our parents' aging/health/financial issues, and sometimes need to restrict our own freedom to help them.  Time seems to rocket by, and yet we often have trouble engaging in/enjoying the moment we're in.  We've made a lot of crucial life decisions by our 40s, and therefore closed off a lot of life possibilities; this can be a shock when we realize it...it can make us feel trapped in a way we weren't in our youth when more options were still 'live'.  Women usually start perimenopause and are beginning to contemplate a future of actual menopause. Men's testosterone levels are dropping, which can lead to body changes and depression. 

Then there's the advent of health problems. My health also took a serious nosedive at age 40 (no more carefree assumptions that my body would just continue functioning as I took for granted for so long). My situation is unusually complex, but many people still deal with sudden realization of consequences of being overweight, or nagging injuries, bad diets, high cholesterol/blood pressure, etc., by their 40s. 

None of this should be a surprise to us: after all, evolutionarily speaking, humans are built to be 'done/cannon fodder' by their mid-40s, post reproductive prime.  But it still feels shocking, almost like we bought into a bad deal, or got scammed.

The good part is that for most people, the psychological turmoil associated with the 40s does ease off eventually, and can be actively worked through faster than that.  My husband (who is 9 years older) struggled with malaise in his 40s, and didn't really try to address it except by increasing his fitness level.  But since hitting his 50s he's been much calmer, happier, more mindful, and more emotionally resilient to the realities of his body and life.    I had all sorts of emotional turmoil from 40-45, as my body seemed to constantly betray me.  I wish I'd really started to attack my psychological state immediately, rather than waiting half of my 40s for things to just work themselves out (news flash: they didn't).  However, once I took the opportunity to try to learn new psychological coping tools (mostly based on mindfulness and cognitive behavioral therapy techniques), as well as starting to prioritize health/exercise, etc. more, things improved notably.  Now, in my late 40s, I feel more optimistic and (especially) resilient than at any time since my 20s. And that's a big deal b/c my baseline had long been to have relatively high anxiety and mild dysthymia.  It's also important b/c the challenges of the 40s are just the beginning of many similar challenges I am going to be facing as I age, assuming I'm lucky enough to live a long time.  And I need these new skills to cope with those inevitable challenges! 

Aging also gives perspective that can be really helpful. It helps you prioritize what's important in life.  It helps you communicate better and with a broader array of people.  E.g., I was recently thinking how much better I can connect to older people emotionally than I could just a few years ago.  No matter how empathetic I tried to be, my younger self couldn't directly relate to a lot of the issues that my older friends and relatives were dealing with. I hadn't lost friends and family, I was healthy, I wasn't grappling with life's disappointments as much.  But all of those are part of life, and now that I've had to deal with some of that myself, I can connect emotionally to an entire chunk of the population in a way I formerly couldn't. Conversely, when I'm doling out life advice to my husband's grad students, I now need to remind myself that they can't necessarily relate to everything I'm telling them, and I can understand why.  It will come to them in time, just as it did me.

I also am definitely much better now than I was in my 20s and 30s at just living in the moment, and appreciating the small things as well as the big things in life.

If I were you, I'd try to tackle this life stage as a crucial opportunity to learn new skills and try new things to actively improve your emotional well-being.  Make sure you don't have any obvious physical problems (e.g., thyroid imbalance) that might be exacerbating your mental state.  Try to absorb yourself in new projects or hobbies that give you a feeling of progress and accomplishment, etc.  Consider cbt therapy or mindfulness practice, etc.

It does get better, with some effort, for most people.  Though I should warn you, some of this mental disorientation never really leaves us.  My 75-year-old mother notes that she still 'feels mentally like she's a 35 year old woman, and has no idea who the hell that wrinkled old lady in the mirror is...sometimes can't even relate to that person at all'.   We just learn to accept it, hopefully with grace.

[partgypsy]

Yup. My husband went through a mid-life crisis mid late 40's (more to it than that, but short story). Understatement our marriage didn't survive. Not that I'm recommending it as it causes more problems than it solves, but a younger wife could possibly have health benefits. While the girlfriend smokes (and he now smokes too) she is very concerned about aging and maintaining her health and youth. Not only is no red meat allowed in the house apparently she limits the amount of booze, as well as how often he goes out to once a week (because that invariably involves drinking). When we were together I worked full time and we have two kids and so it just wasn't possible for me to "mind" him to the degree she can (younger, no kids or time consuming hobbies, works part time). Strangely it seems if I did what she did it would have caused a big fight, while now he seems fine with it. There are some downsides as he has confided, for example she does not get pretty much any of his cultural references, as the music, shows, films etc don't overlap.   
 

[savedandsaving]

Women are not fountain of youth pills. Ever. 
I repeat: [younger] women are not fountain of youth pills. AKA: objects, signifiers, muses, etc.
It not a woman's job to keep a man feeling young, virile, inspired, etc. 
Likewise, women already have immense social pressure to "age gracefully" while "seemingly not aging at all".

Directing one's energy at a new object of desire can give someone a [temporary] boost of biologically intoxicating oxytocin -- or perhaps gives them an opportunity to redefine their identity adjacent to a new partner. But self-destructing families/relationships in MLC to chase a younger woman is a temporary band-aid to the meta issues. Not to mention subsequent relationships tend to have a higher failure rate.

Gratefully, the OP has been clear on this throughout.

THIS. OP, there's nothing that can compare to the steadfastness and true love of a committed monogamous relationship. Guarantee you it's better for your long-term health than "switching out" for a younger woman would be. Stay the course :)

[kork]

Yup. My husband went through a mid-life crisis (more to it than that, but short story). Understatement our marriage didn't survive. Not that I'm recommending it as it causes more problems than it solves, but a younger wife could possibly have health benefits. While the girlfriend smokes (and he now smokes too) she is very concerned about aging and maintaining her health and youth. Not only is no red meat allowed in the house apparently she limits the amount of booze, as well as how often he goes out to once a week (because that invariably involves drinking). When we were together I worked full time and we have two kids and so it just wasn't possible for me to "mind" him to the degree she can (younger, no kids or time consuming hobbies, works part time). Strangely it seems if I did what she did it would have caused a big fight, while now he seems fine with it. There are some downsides as he has confided, for example she does not get pretty much any of his cultural references, as the music, shows, films etc don't overlap.   

Again, lot's of good advice and thoughts. I will say that my wife is emotionally a fountain of youth  My curiosity has piqued here though... At the risk of being insensitive and overstepping levels of comfort, I am curious...

<Kork overstepping boundaries>
You mentioned that he has confided in you? Could it be that he's having an emotional affair with you? My parents divorced.  The only communication they had was hatred and more hatred (along with fish smashing on steel doors, drunken rages, etc).  I can't imagine another other than the opposite to that let alone actually carrying out a conversation about their current relationships?
</ kork overstepping boundaries>

[partgypsy]

Yup. My husband went through a mid-life crisis (more to it than that, but short story). Understatement our marriage didn't survive. Not that I'm recommending it as it causes more problems than it solves, but a younger wife could possibly have health benefits. While the girlfriend smokes (and he now smokes too) she is very concerned about aging and maintaining her health and youth. Not only is no red meat allowed in the house apparently she limits the amount of booze, as well as how often he goes out to once a week (because that invariably involves drinking). When we were together I worked full time and we have two kids and so it just wasn't possible for me to "mind" him to the degree she can (younger, no kids or time consuming hobbies, works part time). Strangely it seems if I did what she did it would have caused a big fight, while now he seems fine with it. There are some downsides as he has confided, for example she does not get pretty much any of his cultural references, as the music, shows, films etc don't overlap.   

Again, lot's of good advice and thoughts. I will say that my wife is emotionally a fountain of youth  My curiosity has piqued here though... At the risk of being insensitive and overstepping levels of comfort, I am curious...

<Kork overstepping boundaries>
You mentioned that he has confided in you? Could it be that he's having an emotional affair with you? My parents divorced.  The only communication they had was hatred and more hatred (along with fish smashing on steel doors, drunken rages, etc).  I can't imagine another other than the opposite to that let alone actually carrying out a conversation about their current relationships?
</ kork overstepping boundaries>

Short answer, I don't know, maybe? My ex is comfortable talking about personal stuff a lot more than the average guy. It's his bread and butter (he's a bartender). He and I didn't do things perfectly regarding doing full no-contact in part because we do have kids, we've known each other for 25 years with lots of mutual friends and family etc. There was a point he was over disclosing to the point I said, I don't want him to talk to me about his personal romantic life. It still happens, but not to same extent. Some things I do understand him telling me about (that his gf feels that marriage is the next natural step and would like to do that) because it does affect for example our kids and inheritance, etc. I don't feel this is as much as a concern because a) unlike most guys he confides in multiple people, he is not relying on me soley for some emotional need and b) I confide in him only to what I am ok with anyone knowing, including his gf.   

[kork]

Short answer, I don't know, maybe? My ex is comfortable talking about personal stuff a lot more than the average guy. It's his bread and butter (he's a bartender). He and I didn't do things perfectly regarding doing full no-contact in part because we do have kids, we've known each other for 25 years with lots of mutual friends and family etc. There was a point he was over disclosing to the point I said, I don't want him to talk to me about his personal romantic life. It still happens, but not to same extent. Some things I do understand him telling me about (that his gf feels that marriage is the next natural step and would like to do that) because it does affect for example our kids and inheritance, etc. I don't feel this is as much as a concern because a) unlike most guys he confides in multiple people, he is not relying on me soley for some emotional need and b) I confide in him only to what I am ok with anyone knowing, including his gf.   

Okay, I was just curious. It's nice to know that there's other guys out there who aren't afraid of talking about personal stuff.  It's lonely for the most part.  Women tend to have networks of friends that are open to talk about stuff with.  Men... Not nearly as much.  I'm fortunate, but I also know what it's like to open up to a friend and have it go sour.

A good friend of mine in my 20's (He and his girlfriend used to hang out with my wife and I every weekend.  Play videos games, go out to movies, occasional dinners out... etc) - Several years later, I was his best man at his wedding. 5 years later and still great friends, I spoke to some of my struggles with him (similar to what they are now) and within 18 months he had severed my wife and I out of his life.  I/we did nothing wrong.

So I suspect he felt I was a risk in his world for whatever reason and ended the friendship.

A year later, his wife asked him for a divorce.  We're still friends with her.

[partgypsy]

Short answer, I don't know, maybe? My ex is comfortable talking about personal stuff a lot more than the average guy. It's his bread and butter (he's a bartender). He and I didn't do things perfectly regarding doing full no-contact in part because we do have kids, we've known each other for 25 years with lots of mutual friends and family etc. There was a point he was over disclosing to the point I said, I don't want him to talk to me about his personal romantic life. It still happens, but not to same extent. Some things I do understand him telling me about (that his gf feels that marriage is the next natural step and would like to do that) because it does affect for example our kids and inheritance, etc. I don't feel this is as much as a concern because a) unlike most guys he confides in multiple people, he is not relying on me soley for some emotional need and b) I confide in him only to what I am ok with anyone knowing, including his gf.   

Okay, I was just curious. It's nice to know that there's other guys out there who aren't afraid of talking about personal stuff.  It's lonely for the most part.  Women tend to have networks of friends that are open to talk about stuff with.  Men... Not nearly as much.  I'm fortunate, but I also know what it's like to open up to a friend and have it go sour.

A good friend of mine in my 20's (He and his girlfriend used to hang out with my wife and I every weekend.  Play videos games, go out to movies, occasional dinners out... etc) - Several years later, I was his best man at his wedding. 5 years later and still great friends, I spoke to some of my struggles with him (similar to what they are now) and within 18 months he had severed my wife and I out of his life.  I/we did nothing wrong.

So I suspect he felt I was a risk in his world for whatever reason and ended the friendship.

A year later, his wife asked him for a divorce.  We're still friends with her.

I'm sorry to hear that. I do have to admit I lost pretty much all the couple friends ex and I knew as a couple. Some due to a) his behavior to me, and b) that I was no longer part of a "couple". It was actually pretty shocking the degree I became a persona non-grata post marriage. Some of them I considered very good friends, but I guess were fair weather friends. The worst part was the excluding of my kids in what used to be group get-togethers. Let's just say my estimation of the human race really took a nose dive during that time.
The main people I now hang out with are friends I had previously or independent of ex, or friends made since then.

[DFJD]

I saw a brief reference to a terrifying and alcoholic father.  Speaking as someone who grew up the same way, have you been to Al Anon meetings? Or tried to address that in therapy?  If you’ve tried everything else, might be a topic worth exploring.  Even though it was a long time ago, growing up that way can have significant and long term impacts and I wonder if taking a crack at that issue would help.

ETA: actually, let me rephrase. If you haven’t addressed that either with professional help or through Al Anon meetings I am going to go out on a limb and say you absolutely must.  It will probably be one of the most unpleasant and difficult things you will ever do, and also one of the most important. 

[kork]

I saw a brief reference to a terrifying and alcoholic father.  Speaking as someone who grew up the same way, have you been to Al Anon meetings? Or tried to address that in therapy?  If you’ve tried everything else, might be a topic worth exploring.  Even though it was a long time ago, growing up that way can have significant and long term impacts and I wonder if taking a crack at that issue would help.

ETA: actually, let me rephrase. If you haven’t addressed that either with professional help or through Al Anon meetings I am going to go out on a limb and say you absolutely must.  It will probably be one of the most unpleasant and difficult things you will ever do, and also one of the most important.

I am honing in on some things. I see my therapist and there's a number of things I'd like to discuss. Apparently, there are a number of things that I've bottled up inside and when I examine them, they bring me a great deal of discomfort.  I don't know why, but while many people are looking to move through midlife and enjoy the fruits of their labour, I'm not.  The fruits are right in front of me and it's not bringing any comfort.

There's a marsh-mellow test. The test is around delayed gratification. You can either have a marsh-mellow now or you can wait 15 minutes and have two.  They say that those who can delay gratification are likely to become more successful in life.

As a successful FIRE citizen (if you will) I feel as though I didn't wait 15 minutes for the marsh-mellow. Rather, I feel like I waited 15 years and collected thousands of marsh-mellows without eating any.  The last 15 years just flew by and I know I did a bunch of stuff, but I can't seem to recall them. Live in different places, several different jobs, different friends, am well into raising daughters, going places... But instead, I'm teleported back to my youth, to my teen years.  It's like there's a big gap/void that's gone missing from 25-40.  Poof... Gone!

Anyways, I'm going to explore with therapy.  Also, saw a Psychologist last week.  The initial diagnosis is Mild Type 2 Bipolar Disorder.  Enough to still be functional, not enough to make me do crazy, super irrational things at the turn of a dime. But enough to have me think them (or at least, that's how I feel).

I don't know that I agree with the diagnosis.  It's difficult knowing there's something up in my head but it's too cloudy to know what it is.  He doesn't believe I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder and I would also tend to agree since I can go years with no flair ups or fear of certain things.  My anxiety always centers around certain things, and always has like a phobia.  I also believe that there's OCD in there too but have yet to explore that with a diagnosis.

[undercover]

I saw a brief reference to a terrifying and alcoholic father.  Speaking as someone who grew up the same way, have you been to Al Anon meetings? Or tried to address that in therapy?  If you’ve tried everything else, might be a topic worth exploring.  Even though it was a long time ago, growing up that way can have significant and long term impacts and I wonder if taking a crack at that issue would help.

ETA: actually, let me rephrase. If you haven’t addressed that either with professional help or through Al Anon meetings I am going to go out on a limb and say you absolutely must.  It will probably be one of the most unpleasant and difficult things you will ever do, and also one of the most important.

I am honing in on some things. I see my therapist and there's a number of things I'd like to discuss. Apparently, there are a number of things that I've bottled up inside and when I examine them, they bring me a great deal of discomfort.  I don't know why, but while many people are looking to move through midlife and enjoy the fruits of their labour, I'm not.  The fruits are right in front of me and it's not bringing any comfort.

There's a marsh-mellow test. The test is around delayed gratification. You can either have a marsh-mellow now or you can wait 15 minutes and have two.  They say that those who can delay gratification are likely to become more successful in life.

As a successful FIRE citizen (if you will) I feel as though I didn't wait 15 minutes for the marsh-mellow. Rather, I feel like I waited 15 years and collected thousands of marsh-mellows without eating any.  The last 15 years just flew by and I know I did a bunch of stuff, but I can't seem to recall them. Live in different places, several different jobs, different friends, am well into raising daughters, going places... But instead, I'm teleported back to my youth, to my teen years.  It's like there's a big gap/void that's gone missing from 25-40.  Poof... Gone!

Anyways, I'm going to explore with therapy.  Also, saw a Psychologist last week.  The initial diagnosis is Mild Type 2 Bipolar Disorder.  Enough to still be functional, not enough to make me do crazy, super irrational things at the turn of a dime. But enough to have me think them (or at least, that's how I feel).

I don't know that I agree with the diagnosis.  It's difficult knowing there's something up in my head but it's too cloudy to know what it is.  He doesn't believe I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder and I would also tend to agree since I can go years with no flair ups or fear of certain things.  My anxiety always centers around certain things, and always has like a phobia.  I also believe that there's OCD in there too but have yet to explore that with a diagnosis.

I think it might actually be healthy to give into a bit of irrationality at times. "Practical" and "rational" are things people want you to believe actually exist so that you are a proper functioning member of society. In reality I don't think there is a such thing.

But damn I do relate to this a lot and I am only 29.

[partgypsy]

I might have you mixed up with another poster Cork, but if you have had an alcoholic in your family, then I would highly recommend reading at least one book on codependency. I'm reading one right now. What you said about delayed gratification and not just delaying 15 minutes but 15 years for gratification, well that set off bells in my head. I don't want to go into a lot of details in case I'm confusing you with someone else, but if you have ever lived with an addict, the way some people learn to cope and deal with the crazy situation can create behavioral habits long past dealing with the addict, that are dysfunctional. 

[kork]

I might have you mixed up with another poster Cork, but if you have had an alcoholic in your family, then I would highly recommend reading at least one book on codependency. I'm reading one right now. What you said about delayed gratification and not just delaying 15 minutes but 15 years for gratification, well that set off bells in my head. I don't want to go into a lot of details in case I'm confusing you with someone else, but if you have ever lived with an addict, the way some people learn to cope and deal with the crazy situation can create behavioral habits long past dealing with the addict, that are dysfunctional.

Quite possibly confusing me with another poster.

But, my father was an alcoholic but it wasn't really something I learned until I was older. We have a relationship today, though, I will say that I have a great deal of empathy for him. In the last decade, he's had a hip replacement, cancer, titanium rod in his back.  He's broken. Be he claims he's happy. I feel miserable for him. I'm very empathetic.

He wasn't a bad guy. He tried and I suspect did the best job he could, but the alcohol influenced him and I don't believe he was a very good father. But my mom was definitely our shield against his behaviour. After the divorce (when I was around 12-13), she wasn't able to protect us.  My brother and I were kind of on our own. We had lots of fun being "boys" and doing stupid things.  Bottle Rocket wars,  show mobiles, dune buggies, fishing, camping. But mixed in were erratic days of craziness. I didn't know what it was at the time.

Something to discuss during therapy.  I'm coming up with a list!

[kork]

So it's been a month since my last post.

I was referred to a psychiatrist and needed a follow-up at his request. As a result of the follow-up, I was diagnosed with mild type 2 bipolar disorder. This cycle is vicious as it leads to anxiety which feels trapped and then depression which leads to despair. And around and around it goes.

I'm on day #7 of a pretty strong medication. I'm not sure if it's doing anything but it's supposed to start to work around now.

One thing that's new is that I've got the TV on all day now while I work from home. It helps me feel a little bit connected. We were actually early cable cutters and have been without cable tv for nearly a decade.  We now have IPTV and so it actually helps to keep me feeling connected. It's a small, small, small change but at least it's better than being in a big empty workspace.

I don't like leaving the house these days.  I used to go to the mall to work for an hour or two, but any small moves are almost paralyzing... I feel terrified that I'm going to do something that's going to shake things up in a worse way. Like the boat is at the tipping point and one false move will tip it over again.

I dread the mornings. Empty house all day long. In the mornings I am easily the worst. Evenings, I typically feel almost normal.

I've signed up for recreational volleyball in an effort to get out more. That starts in a couple weeks.

Just plugging along.

[partgypsy]

How is your sleep?  I find my moods are much harder to cope with when my sleep has gone to pot.

Horrible sleep.  I wake up every night at 2-3am with extreme anxiety and panic. This started with the Zoloft and is now a pattern. Last night, I woke up crying after a dream involving my grandmother and my mom and red/green and white Willy Wonka nerds. Can't recall much of it, but it was most unpleasant.

I'm now sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. No REM sleep for me. I hope this pattern breaks soon and this is where the diaphragmatic breathing is helping.

If I were you, I would get a good psychiatrist to look closer into the bipolar you mentioned. If that is at the core, you need to find ways to stabilize, and lack of sleep is a sure way to spiral. DH has had very good use of Seroquel. But of course; diagnosis first!

Btw: Bad reactions to traditional antidepressants is one of the diagnostic indicators of bipolar.

Oh wow I didn't know this. My sister in late teens early 20's had depressive episodes that were terrible and fought tooth and nail to not be on antidepressants. 15? years later she was dx with bipolar. Good thing with time her psychological issues have become more managable to her. Sad thing she lost 20? years of her life she will never get back and her life has never been the same since the whole thing started.

[BicycleB]

Glad you got help, Kork! Best wishes.

[partgypsy]

I think everyone needs human connection. And some people need it more than others. I would find a way to have human connection every day. Even if it is yeah going to a coffee house, or calling the parents at a certain time every day.

I know you will have easier days and harder days but I find it admirable that you are taking responsibility and working hard at your own mental health. You are actively advocating for yourself and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. Way to go!

Here is a link to a person that I recently read about. I know I will never be as badass as she is, but there is a spark of that in everyone. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/obituaries/grandma-emma-gatewood-overlooked.html

[kork]

How is your sleep?  I find my moods are much harder to cope with when my sleep has gone to pot.

Horrible sleep.  I wake up every night at 2-3am with extreme anxiety and panic. This started with the Zoloft and is now a pattern. Last night, I woke up crying after a dream involving my grandmother and my mom and red/green and white Willy Wonka nerds. Can't recall much of it, but it was most unpleasant.

I'm now sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. No REM sleep for me. I hope this pattern breaks soon and this is where the diaphragmatic breathing is helping.

If I were you, I would get a good psychiatrist to look closer into the bipolar you mentioned. If that is at the core, you need to find ways to stabilize, and lack of sleep is a sure way to spiral. DH has had very good use of Seroquel. But of course; diagnosis first!

Btw: Bad reactions to traditional antidepressants is one of the diagnostic indicators of bipolar.

Oh wow I didn't know this. My sister in late teens early 20's had depressive episodes that were terrible and fought tooth and nail to not be on antidepressants. 15? years later she was dx with bipolar. Good thing with time her psychological issues have become more manageable to her. Sad thing she lost 20? years of her life she will never get back and her life has never been the same since the whole thing started.

Seroquel is the medication I'm on as well. I haven't experienced any of the side effects yet (not like the Zoloft... Holy $hit was that a ride!!!). It's 50mg so a relatively low dosage.  The side effects scare the crap out of me but the alternative is how I've been feeling.

I've already discussed with my GP that if the Seroquel works, I'll be looking for ways to eliminate it, but knowing that it works is like knowing that there's at least an option if things get too hard.

Honestly, I don't necessarily believe the diagnosis of Bipolar.  I just don't see it. But I also believe there's something very wrong. But he's convinced that there's some definite brain chemistry level imbalance and he's been doing this for 37 years. Nearly my age.  I've got to give into the professional observation at some point.

I've also had 4 counselling sessions and a 5th booked next week.  No epiphanies yet but he's listening and is interested.  When I speak, I'm actually quite insightful, eloquent and animated and come across as being very intelligent. But I'm not.  I'm borderline normal/smart. The therapy is helping, I'm just hoping for an ah-hah moment.

[BicycleB]

Fwiw...please don't take offense, kork, but from the perspective of a reader, I had wondered repeatedly whether you were bipolar (or something of the sort).

I am just an internet schmuck, not a psychologist...a schmuck who has friend of 20 years periodically diagnosed with bipolar and periodically something else, and another who acts lot like he has it but scrapes by with near-daily calls to yours truly instead visiting a pro (who he should visit IMHO). In the diagnosed case, I have repeatedly gotten calls from mental hospitals, picked up wrecked cars, etc. I don't mean to imply that's where you're headed, just that I'm not making things up out of whole cloth, and that prevention is better than "toughing it out" without aid and then crashing. The main idea I'm hoping to convey is many congratulations on giving the pros' suggestions a shot and implementing the program even when you have doubts.

One thing I can say for sure is that when my diagnosed friend is coming up from a hospital-level plunge, said Friend routinely says "I feel fine now, much better" about a week before Friend actually stops sounding a little off, which also coincidentally means a week before the docs say "Go home, but don't go to work for another week." In other words, it looks really wise to trust the pros on their recommendations if at all possible.

Sorry I'm if intruding or stepping out of line. You are in charge of your life. Very glad you're moving forwards.

[Glenstache]

The therapy is helping, I'm just hoping for an ah-hah moment.

it is possible that you will have an ah-ha moment in real time. Another realistic expectation is that you will have gradual small changes through therapy and you will look back at where you used to be, see how you have progressed and that recognition will be the ah-ha moment.

[big_owl]

So it's been a month since my last post.

I was referred to a psychiatrist and needed a follow-up at his request. As a result of the follow-up, I was diagnosed with mild type 2 bipolar disorder. This cycle is vicious as it leads to anxiety which feels trapped and then depression which leads to despair. And around and around it goes.

I'm on day #7 of a pretty strong medication. I'm not sure if it's doing anything but it's supposed to start to work around now.

One thing that's new is that I've got the TV on all day now while I work from home. It helps me feel a little bit connected. We were actually early cable cutters and have been without cable tv for nearly a decade.  We now have IPTV and so it actually helps to keep me feeling connected. It's a small, small, small change but at least it's better than being in a big empty workspace.

I don't like leaving the house these days.  I used to go to the mall to work for an hour or two, but any small moves are almost paralyzing... I feel terrified that I'm going to do something that's going to shake things up in a worse way. Like the boat is at the tipping point and one false move will tip it over again.

I dread the mornings. Empty house all day long. In the mornings I am easily the worst. Evenings, I typically feel almost normal.

I've signed up for recreational volleyball in an effort to get out more. That starts in a couple weeks.

Just plugging along.

Just curious has your therapist gone over Cognitive Distortions with you yet?   These are dealt with heavily in the Feel Good book previously recommended.   And interesting enough they are also addressed in a different way in the Headspace app (via the Anxiety series).

Actually putting a lot of effort into identifying these distortions and writing them down and analyzing them has an incredible effect on the depression. The whole concept is that it's your thoughts that actually determine your feelings at any time. And just because you're feeling depressed doesn't prove that your thoughts are correct (justified).  I can be in a very depressed state with high anxiety for days on end. But if I spend a few hours really trying to get to the root thought that is causing the episode and which class of cognitive distortion it is (and subsequently why it is invalid) then in a matter of minutes the episode is gone and I feel fine. It can literally be that fast. It takes hard work but it's amazing how fast you can go from wanting to hang yourself to feeling normal just by identifying an invalid thought.  You sound like a prime candidate to explore this further.

I've had to give up all meds for my depression.  For whatever reason after some time they all cause my anxiety to go to level 11 and I want to pull my teeth out or put my head through a wall. I've also really doubled down on meditation and cognitive distortions.  The meditation has been key for my insomnia.  Last week I had awesome med free sleep all week. I felt like a new man.  It's not all roses though, last night I only got 3hrs. I've changed my tactic with insomnia. Now I go outside and run in the middle of the night to at least be productive...and reduce the sleep anxiety. Last night I ran 2mi at 2am then came back and showered, did some Headspace meditation and even fell back asleep for an hour!...   Not ideal but better than wasting the time tossing and turning and stressing out over it.

[kork]

Fwiw...please don't take offense, kork, but from the perspective of a reader, I had wondered repeatedly whether you were bipolar (or something of the sort).

I am just an internet schmuck, not a psychologist...a schmuck who has friend of 20 years periodically diagnosed with bipolar and periodically something else, and another who acts lot like he has it but scrapes by with near-daily calls to yours truly instead visiting a pro (who he should visit IMHO). In the diagnosed case, I have repeatedly gotten calls from mental hospitals, picked up wrecked cars, etc. I don't mean to imply that's where you're headed, just that I'm not making things up out of whole cloth, and that prevention is better than "toughing it out" without aid and then crashing. The main idea I'm hoping to convey is many congratulations on giving the pros' suggestions a shot and implementing the program even when you have doubts.

One thing I can say for sure is that when my diagnosed friend is coming up from a hospital-level plunge, said Friend routinely says "I feel fine now, much better" about a week before Friend actually stops sounding a little off, which also coincidentally means a week before the docs say "Go home, but don't go to work for another week." In other words, it looks really wise to trust the pros on their recommendations if at all possible.

Sorry I'm if intruding or stepping out of line. You are in charge of your life. Very glad you're moving forwards.

Sorry for the delay,  was disconnected for the weekend.

No intruding at all. I welcome all thoughts an opinions.  I've often thought of anxiety medication not as a boat to ride on, but more like a life preserver to keep someone from drowning.  I've been drowning.

This time is very different.

Just curious has your therapist gone over Cognitive Distortions with you yet?   These are dealt with heavily in the Feel Good book previously recommended.   And interesting enough they are also addressed in a different way in the Headspace app (via the Anxiety series).

No, my research for the week was Psychosocial Development which is interesting. There's been no discussion regarding cognitive distortions.

[BeanCounter]

Actually putting a lot of effort into identifying these distortions and writing them down and analyzing them has an incredible effect on the depression. The whole concept is that it's your thoughts that actually determine your feelings at any time. And just because you're feeling depressed doesn't prove that your thoughts are correct (justified).  I can be in a very depressed state with high anxiety for days on end. But if I spend a few hours really trying to get to the root thought that is causing the episode and which class of cognitive distortion it is (and subsequently why it is invalid) then in a matter of minutes the episode is gone and I feel fine. It can literally be that fast. It takes hard work but it's amazing how fast you can go from wanting to hang yourself to feeling normal just by identifying an invalid thought.  You sound like a prime candidate to explore this further.

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

[kork]

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

I actually looked this up as well and seems very interesting.  Part of my cognitive distortion is that life is horrible as you get older.  I've told my therapist that I can't see life getting any better than it is today. Life is "so good" today that it's preventing me from seeing it getting any better as I age. How fu@&ed up is that?  And because of things being so good today, I can't enjoy today for fear it'll be worse down the road.  Rinse and repeat, the cycle continues...

[wenchsenior]

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

I actually looked this up as well and seems very interesting.  Part of my cognitive distortion is that life is horrible as you get older.  I've told my therapist that I can't see life getting any better than it is today. Life is "so good" today that it's preventing me from seeing it getting any better as I age. How fu@&ed up is that?  And because of things being so good today, I can't enjoy today for fear it'll be worse down the road.  Rinse and repeat, the cycle continues...

I second the rec to read Feeling Good by David Burns, esp if your particular therapist doesn't regularly do CBT.  As someone with mild chronic depression and anxiety, it was super helpful.

[koshtra]

Oh! Life actually gets better, decade by decade. I'm 61, and the trajectory has been steadily upward. SO much happier now than I was twenty years ago, and twenty years ago I was so much happier than I'd been twenty years before. Your mileage may vary, of course, but my life has improved dramatically, along every dimension, as time has gone on. You just go along figuring things out and fixing things (or letting them go!) and life gets much more rich and satisfying.

[big_owl]

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

I actually looked this up as well and seems very interesting.  Part of my cognitive distortion is that life is horrible as you get older.  I've told my therapist that I can't see life getting any better than it is today. Life is "so good" today that it's preventing me from seeing it getting any better as I age. How fu@&ed up is that?  And because of things being so good today, I can't enjoy today for fear it'll be worse down the road.  Rinse and repeat, the cycle continues...

This seems one of the more difficult distortions to deal with.  I've had the same problem though it sounds like to a much lesser extent than you.  I think I mentioned my problem upthread and it was chronic pain due to injury. 

I don't think it's accurate to say that life always does get better decade to decade, because it doesn't always.  Although to be fair life's happiness trajectory probably depends highly on what one values most in life and what makes you most happy. 

I assume your therapist has had you write out exactly what you're afraid of losing as you get older - physical ability, good looks, your spouse's looks, your hair,...?  Just "getting older" doesn't mean life is going to get worse.  You need to identify exactly what about getting older is so much worse.  Heck, we're smarter, much more financially sound (hopefully), mental abilities are just as good as in our 20s, health care is as capable as ever, even if expensive.  There are all sorts of reasons not to fear old age.  You can look forward to your kids growing up (if you have any) or going on nicer vacations and buying nicer things.  I know I value the stability in my marriage much more than trying to deal with finding a new partner and dating in the old days.

When I objectively think back to my early to mid twenties the only thing that was really better was that I had a thicker head of hair and I was faster/stronger.  Absolutely everything else is better as I sneak up on 40 now.  Sometimes the rose colored glasses are strong...

[kork]

Short answer, I don't know, maybe? My ex is comfortable talking about personal stuff a lot more than the average guy. It's his bread and butter (he's a bartender). He and I didn't do things perfectly regarding doing full no-contact in part because we do have kids, we've known each other for 25 years with lots of mutual friends and family etc. There was a point he was over disclosing to the point I said, I don't want him to talk to me about his personal romantic life. It still happens, but not to same extent. Some things I do understand him telling me about (that his gf feels that marriage is the next natural step and would like to do that) because it does affect for example our kids and inheritance, etc. I don't feel this is as much as a concern because a) unlike most guys he confides in multiple people, he is not relying on me soley for some emotional need and b) I confide in him only to what I am ok with anyone knowing, including his gf.   

Okay, I was just curious. It's nice to know that there's other guys out there who aren't afraid of talking about personal stuff.  It's lonely for the most part.  Women tend to have networks of friends that are open to talk about stuff with.  Men... Not nearly as much.  I'm fortunate, but I also know what it's like to open up to a friend and have it go sour.

A good friend of mine in my 20's (He and his girlfriend used to hang out with my wife and I every weekend.  Play videos games, go out to movies, occasional dinners out... etc) - Several years later, I was his best man at his wedding. 5 years later and still great friends, I spoke to some of my struggles with him (similar to what they are now) and within 18 months he had severed my wife and I out of his life.  I/we did nothing wrong.

So I suspect he felt I was a risk in his world for whatever reason and ended the friendship.

A year later, his wife asked him for a divorce.  We're still friends with her.

Interestingly, this particular friend emailed me out of the blue about 3 weeks ago.  We've been chatting/talking ever since and it appears he's going through much of the same challenge I am. Different, to be sure, but still something. In fact, he's been building an excel file to try to piece together events in his life. He's finding he's having challenges with time and everything is becoming a bit of a long blur and things are not in sorts. I've started to do the same thing to piece together events of the past and understand how and when they occurred.

I also found out a couple weeks ago that one of my best childhood friends passed away. He was 41. We grew up together, would spend every weekend together and spent half of high school together. We drifted our separate ways and started hanging out with different crowds part way through high school but through Facebook, we remained connected, if nothing more than arms reach.

So he's dead at 41 and I'm sad about it. Sad to the point of a few "drop to the knees and cry" sessions. We won't sit down one day on the couch and replay old childhood classics on the Nintendo like when did when we were kids. But in a weird sort of way, I'm also relieved that his battle is over and that I'm not going to watch him grow older. I'd rather remember him for who he was then rather than who he'd become today or would become in the future.

It's weird.

[BeanCounter]

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

I actually looked this up as well and seems very interesting.  Part of my cognitive distortion is that life is horrible as you get older.  I've told my therapist that I can't see life getting any better than it is today. Life is "so good" today that it's preventing me from seeing it getting any better as I age. How fu@&ed up is that?  And because of things being so good today, I can't enjoy today for fear it'll be worse down the road.  Rinse and repeat, the cycle continues...

So this is where the mindfulness practice comes into play. Look up The Power of Now book. It's a little lofty but there are some really helpful things to think about. Your feelings about the future are a judgement about something that may never come to pass. Your sadness, worry, fear, is about something (the future) that doesn't even exist. You could read this post and then die in a car crash on your way to dinner. From the book-
"most of us are trapped in the illusion of time. We spend the bulk of our energy reminiscing the past, or hoping for better in the future. In the process we are absent in the "Now" the only real moment we have. Worse still we create pain in the present when we unconsciously resist what is, either through judgement and/or negativity."
According to the book we need to stop creating time. Learn to withdraw attention from the past and future when it is not needed.
Anyway, it is a bit difficult for me to grasp and figure out how to change, especially since I am a planner both by nature and in my profession. But I am finding it helpful.

[BicycleB]

I also found out a couple weeks ago that one of my best childhood friends passed away. He was 41. We grew up together, would spend every weekend together and spent half of high school together. We drifted our separate ways and started hanging out with different crowds part way through high school but through Facebook, we remained connected, if nothing more than arms reach.

So he's dead at 41 and I'm sad about it. Sad to the point of a few "drop to the knees and cry" sessions. We won't sit down one day on the couch and replay old childhood classics on the Nintendo like when did when we were kids. But in a weird sort of way, I'm also relieved that his battle is over and that I'm not going to watch him grow older. I'd rather remember him for who he was then rather than who he'd become today or would become in the future.

It's weird.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[imolina]

I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through, my friend.

Individual counselling is tricky because I'm not sure what type of counsellor (male, female, older, my age?) would be best and I'm afraid to fail.

From more recent posts it seems as though you are actively pursuing this, but I'd just like to take this chance to say: it's not possible to fail counselling. You can't fail. Your counselor, theoretically, cannot fail. Counselling is a journey, and participating actively is succeeding. Keep at it--I truly believe that literally everyone can benefit from counselling and should engage in it at some point in their life.

I know others have said it, but consider your local church. I'm personally a Christian, and I see the religion as--rather than the "opiate of the masses"--a hard pill to swallow at times (bear with me here). It's something that will enlarge your pool of thought topics to include dark subjects such as strangers' spiritual wellbeing, the state of human souls, the spiritual state of the world, the forces of darkness possibly at play against us, and the modern persecuted church (thousands imprisoned and killed every year just for practicing their peaceful faith, and that's Christianity alone--think of other world religions.)

On the other and more positive hand...it completely solves the "why." No wonder that, historically, Christianity flourished in times of harshest persecution. Once a person's metaphysical "why" is solved...once they realize that the God of the universe cares about them...they seemingly strengthen in the face of many physical trials.

Even if you don't buy into the faith, solid local churches are great place of community, often with social and outreach events that stretch throughout the week. Fantastic way to meet hopefully lovely people and serve your community at the same time.

I wish you the very best, and if you're comfortable with it, I will be genuinely praying for you.

Going to a church, doing a pilgrimage or praying can be so comforting and peaceful. It can bring a lot of healing.

[kork]

I wanted to say thank you for this. I googled "cognitive distortions" and found a list of 20 on Good Therapy. I spent some time with the list over the weekend and wish I had found it years ago. So very helpful.

I'm also listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which I believe someone recommended up thread. It is also helpful.

The reading, exercise and a vitamin D supplement has put me in a much better place lately. Kork, it sounds like you are heading that direction too.

I actually looked this up as well and seems very interesting.  Part of my cognitive distortion is that life is horrible as you get older.  I've told my therapist that I can't see life getting any better than it is today. Life is "so good" today that it's preventing me from seeing it getting any better as I age. How fu@&ed up is that?  And because of things being so good today, I can't enjoy today for fear it'll be worse down the road.  Rinse and repeat, the cycle continues...

So this is where the mindfulness practice comes into play. Look up The Power of Now book. It's a little lofty but there are some really helpful things to think about. Your feelings about the future are a judgement about something that may never come to pass. Your sadness, worry, fear, is about something (the future) that doesn't even exist. You could read this post and then die in a car crash on your way to dinner. From the book-
"most of us are trapped in the illusion of time. We spend the bulk of our energy reminiscing the past, or hoping for better in the future. In the process we are absent in the "Now" the only real moment we have. Worse still we create pain in the present when we unconsciously resist what is, either through judgement and/or negativity."
According to the book we need to stop creating time. Learn to withdraw attention from the past and future when it is not needed.
Anyway, it is a bit difficult for me to grasp and figure out how to change, especially since I am a planner both by nature and in my profession. But I am finding it helpful.

I actually start a mindfulness program next week for 8 weeks. I've also been practicing diaphragmatic breathing combined with basic mindfulness. I'll take a look into the book.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank-you.

Going to a church, doing a pilgrimage or praying can be so comforting and peaceful. It can bring a lot of healing.

I'm not religious. Interestingly, my friend mentioned above who passed away was raised evangelical Christian.  My best friend is evangelical Christian.  I have no shortage of religious influence.

[Rosy]

Quote by beancounter

So this is where the mindfulness practice comes into play. Look up The Power of Now book. It's a little lofty but there are some really helpful things to think about. Your feelings about the future are a judgement about something that may never come to pass. Your sadness, worry, fear, is about something (the future) that doesn't even exist. You could read this post and then die in a car crash on your way to dinner. From the book-
"most of us are trapped in the illusion of time. We spend the bulk of our energy reminiscing the past, or hoping for better in the future. In the process we are absent in the "Now" the only real moment we have. Worse still we create pain in the present when we unconsciously resist what is, either through judgement and/or negativity."
According to the book we need to stop creating time. Learn to withdraw attention from the past and future when it is not needed.
Anyway, it is a bit difficult for me to grasp and figure out how to change, especially since I am a planner both by nature and in my profession. But I am finding it helpful.

It isn't an easy read, I'm working my way through it - off and on, because like you said, "how do you fit this strangely different view into your own world when you are a natural planner?:) and are totally focused on the future and how to control what may never be"?

It is a change in perspective - so profound that it is a bit scary, I don't like fatalism for one. I have noticed that when things get rough I wish my life away, working on things for a better future which makes it difficult to fully experience the here and now. Our thoughts are in and of the future.
We forget to look to enjoy the small pleasures of everyday life or being kinder to ourselves. We hone in on everything that we hate and fear, right down to trivial matters that in the big scheme of things are not at all important.

One of the few good things about age is that I've stopped obsessing about a lot of things that in the end led nowhere, my attitude and my perspective on life have changed radically.
Dedication to growing your stash does not need to interfere with our pleasures in the here and now unless we convince ourselves that we have no other option.
Relaxing a bit and being open for a myriad of opportunities, instead of relentlessly destroying all the good in the here and now, is a much better approach and helps us keep our equilibrium.

[kork]

Quote by beancounter

So this is where the mindfulness practice comes into play. Look up The Power of Now book. It's a little lofty but there are some really helpful things to think about. Your feelings about the future are a judgement about something that may never come to pass. Your sadness, worry, fear, is about something (the future) that doesn't even exist. You could read this post and then die in a car crash on your way to dinner. From the book-
"most of us are trapped in the illusion of time. We spend the bulk of our energy reminiscing the past, or hoping for better in the future. In the process we are absent in the "Now" the only real moment we have. Worse still we create pain in the present when we unconsciously resist what is, either through judgement and/or negativity."
According to the book we need to stop creating time. Learn to withdraw attention from the past and future when it is not needed.
Anyway, it is a bit difficult for me to grasp and figure out how to change, especially since I am a planner both by nature and in my profession. But I am finding it helpful.

It isn't an easy read, I'm working my way through it - off and on, because like you said, "how do you fit this strangely different view into your own world when you are a natural planner?:) and are totally focused on the future and how to control what may never be"?

It is a change in perspective - so profound that it is a bit scary, I don't like fatalism for one. I have noticed that when things get rough I wish my life away, working on things for a better future which makes it difficult to fully experience the here and now. Our thoughts are in and of the future.
We forget to look to enjoy the small pleasures of everyday life or being kinder to ourselves. We hone in on everything that we hate and fear, right down to trivial matters that in the big scheme of things are not at all important.

One of the few good things about age is that I've stopped obsessing about a lot of things that in the end led nowhere, my attitude and my perspective on life have changed radically.
Dedication to growing your stash does not need to interfere with our pleasures in the here and now unless we convince ourselves that we have no other option.
Relaxing a bit and being open for a myriad of opportunities, instead of relentlessly destroying all the good in the here and now, is a much better approach and helps us keep our equilibrium.

In typical mustachian fashion, I've placed the book on hold at the library.

Changes in perspective are powerful. It's a change in perspective that has started my downward spiral.

And with that change of perspective, it feels like the rules of life have literally been turned upside down and I'm trying to adjust and cope with all the new rules (which are just perceptual). For the longest time, life has felt like riding a bike. Riding over or avoiding obstacles climbing hills, going downhill sometimes, but all the while enjoying the ride. Nowadays, I'm still riding the same bike on the same path... except the bike is on fire, I'm on fire and everything else is on fire.

Nothing has changed really (except the death of my friend) but even then, that occurred after my bike and everything caught fire.  That was just a wee bit of fanning the flames. I'm hoping to change my perspective once again, somehow...

But I feel like I'm moving forward. My therapist actually brought up cognitive distortions today ironically and it's something we're exploring.

Just curious has your therapist gone over Cognitive Distortions with you yet?   These are dealt with heavily in the Feel Good book previously recommended.   And interesting enough they are also addressed in a different way in the Headspace app (via the Anxiety series).

Also, I feel like the medication is having a positive effect. Best way I can explain it is that 100% of my brain was filled with a dark, black depression cloud.  Now, it's a 90% dark, black depression cloud but there's hints of "clear skies" in there.

My therapist described the medication as being like oil for the engine.  It's not going to get me anywhere, but when I need to move, the engine will be able to run.  I like the analogy.

[big_owl]

Think of your friend dying and your reaction as the magnification distortion.  Obviously it's perfectly normal to grieve over the loss of a friend, but with your depression perhaps you're using this event to reinforce that the future is dark and it can only go downhill (magnifying the negative).  What your aren't doing is keeping perspective that most friends and people you know are doing just fine and are healthy living full lives as they age.  They say it's like a pair of binoculars. You magnify the negative and then turn the binocs around and look through them backwards at all the positive events (in reverse binocs make everything look small - this is what you are doing with all the positives).

[BicycleB]

10% blue skies? Wow! That's actually fantastic. Congratulations on finding a break in the clouds, at least for now.

Not to disrespect the 90%, which can be a heavy load. Best wishes.

[kork]

Think of your friend dying and your reaction as the magnification distortion.  Obviously it's perfectly normal to grieve over the loss of a friend, but with your depression perhaps you're using this event to reinforce that the future is dark and it can only go downhill (magnifying the negative).  What your aren't doing is keeping perspective that most friends and people you know are doing just fine and are healthy living full lives as they age.  They say it's like a pair of binoculars. You magnify the negative and then turn the binocs around and look through them backwards at all the positive events (in reverse binocs make everything look small - this is what you are doing with all the positives).

Oddly, the loss of my friend isn't really affecting my perspective of the future. It's actually pretty separate. If anything, despite the void it seems to have created, I'm glad I don't need to watch him get old. Rather (and I say this with honesty in a weird kindof way) it reinforces that I may not need to see old age.  I may have a stroke one day while laughing and wham.  I hit the floor and I'm dead. This, oddly, is reassuring.

[kork]

10% blue skies? Wow! That's actually fantastic. Congratulations on finding a break in the clouds, at least for now.

Not to disrespect the 90%, which can be a heavy load. Best wishes.

I agree,  when you're used to 100% dark coverage,  10% blue is leaps and bounds better. The number I'm coming up with is mental energy.  I find that while I was putting 100% of my waking thought into these negative images, I've been able to find a break in the clouds.  I'm able to get out of bed before 11am now whereas 2 months ago, I would lie in bed after a horrible sleep and listen to podcasts to fall back to sleep to calm my mind.

[lutorm]

Apparently research shows that people in general get more happy with age, not less. I can't remember where I read this but it seems to agree with my personal experience. There was a bit of midlife crisis in early forties but now at 48 I'm generally quite happy. Maybe you can look forward to the same?

One thing that I feel has generally helped my feeling of well-being is trying to practice Stoicism. I had a bit of that in my upbringing without knowing it by name, but it wasn't until I found MMM and read "the guide to the good life" (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/) that I really started trying to practice stoic thinking. I'm not even very good at it, but I definitely think it's been a positive influence.

[BicycleB]

I've read that happiness goes in a U shape, with the bottom being usually in one's 40s or early 50s.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/youll-probably-have-a-midlife-happiness-crisis-heres-why

But that's an average. I think individual factors like therapy and so on make a big difference. It's more that, even though the current era is tough, there's hope on the other end.

[kork]

It's been a little over a month since my last post.  I don't know if things are getting better or not. I'm posting because it helps to write things out.

Here's what I've been up to:

1. My next therapy/counselling session is on Thursday (This will be the 11th one and has been weekly). I like my therapist and I believe he's quite smart and I've given him very good insight into my mind and how I'm thinking. But, there's a LOT of cover. I've got a lot of $hit that happened when I was young it seems. Nothing was "normal" about how I've lived life. This upcoming session will be dealing with issues I've uncovered about my teen years but will also focus around my relationship with my wife and my insecurities with the feelings of betrayal and hurt.

2. I've also got my 6th follow-up with my psychiatrist in a few weeks to determine the benefits of the medication as we increase the dosage (Seroquel now at 150mg). I also told my psychiatrist that I'd been experiencing a bit of "chest puffery" and general male peacocking. It's not often, but it's been happening. I told him I was looking to trade in my responsible, fuel efficient vehicle for a 2012 Audi R8. Brand new, it's a $250k super car.  I could get this one for under $100k.  He asked me some questions (would it affect your mortgage, kids education, etc) and I said "no."  He asked how I earned my "millionaire status" and I said "saving every dollar at a time.  No startups, no family business, nothing... Just earn a dollar, save a dollar." He told me to go buy the car if I wanted to that not everything needed to be analyzed or justified. He then pointed to the Rolex on his wrist and told me about his Mercedes CL550 (and told me why it was a dumb purchase).

3. The mindfulness workshop I'm taking is questionable at best.  The instructor has a scratchy voice that feels forced when trying to speak.  This is particularly challenging when trying to meditate. I'm not enjoying it. I'm very forward indicating to the teachers that my mind is bullying me. I don't have control over it anymore, it has control over me.

4. I've established that CBD oil does little to nothing. Lorazopram/Ativan seems to help when I'm overflowing with emotion.

5. I'm also taking an inner-critic workshop and going into the third week.  It's better.  I'm not sure if I suffer from "Inner critics" as opposed to powerful ruminating and feelings of loss.

6. Well into the recreation volleyball league I signed up for in the summer.

7. I'm reading "The Power of Now" but Eckhart Tolle. It is not an easy read...

<mind dump coming up>

And where I am now...  I'm fighting loss of hope and feelings of despair.

Everything that was once my favourite thing is now a trigger into sadness. 80's and 90's music along with tv shows and movies of the time. Things I collected as a child that
I still have. Fond memories and family photo's hanging on the wall or by the fireplace. Most people look at old photos with fondness and happiness. Not me. I yearn for those days. And not because they were better necessarily, it's because they were full of life and zest. My rumination is getting worse it seems. It's like a dog on a bone and it quickly loosens its grip to bite down deeper and harder.

The rumination is all centred around youth that's drifting away, and more specifically, my wife's. Her innocent, sweet voice has changed. Her beautiful face is still beautiful, but I look at her and it seems that she's looking tired as she approaches 50. Her eyes aren't as vibrant as they once were. It's soul crushing when I'm looking at the sparkle that's fading away. That's the best way to describe it.

The entire thing feels like I'm mourning the loss of the person I love the most in this world. She's still here, but it's not the same "her" I fell in love with. I once thought it would be neat to move through the life changes with her. Now, it terrifies me. I've got my heels dug into the ground, not wanting to move forward. I see where this is going... I see the cliff at the end of the rock face...

And perhaps this is the anxiety or depression triggered by the supposed bipolar.  Or maybe, this is what everyone deals with on a day-to-day basic but they've been fu$%ed by the world too many times and are just used to it.

This is the centre of my emotional instability. It's got nothing to do with wanting to relive my youth or pretend to be young again. Even the Audi R8 isn't about being young. Rather, it's about being the "big dog" in the school yard. About being seen. Something I feel I've rarely ever been; seen.

There's a song by The Crash Test Dummies called "Heart of Stone" that we heard when my wife and I went to a live concert in the summer. I'd never heard this particular song before. It's called "Heart and Stone." Video is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIiG3pgxVw

I'm glad it was an outside venue and dark. I was a mess.

I know what it's like to lose people I care for and love. I suspect I deal with it the same way that many do. Grandparents and friends, pets, etc. I found out a friend from public school passed away a couple weeks ago from breast cancer. She had a 4 year old daughter. It's very sad and I feel for them. When we were younger, we went to camp together. These are all sad events. Even my grandmother's passing 2 years ago.  We were very close but I was able to work through it with relative comfort.

Even imagining the passing my my mom to who'm I'm very close. It's very sad, but nothing holds a candle to my wife.

I told my doctor 6 months ago when this all started that "If there's 7.5 billion people on this planet, I'm in the top group of 1000 people capable of feeling the most emotion."

It's so intense and strong.  I don't know if it's the bipolar and this is what hypomania can be like (as opposed to elated happiness) but I'll tell ya. H.O.L.Y. S.H.I.T. it's strong.

I feel like I'm mourning the loss of my sweet, vibrant girlfriend. It feels like only yesterday we were sitting with my parents in my livingroom when they forbid the relationship and we then broke up, got back together, broke up, got back together... Spent hours on the phone into the wee hours of the morning. Only able to talk. It was so tumultuous. Not only was I experiencing first love, but I was forcefully breaking away from childhood and growing up fast with the age difference. I was going off to school, living in a different city. I often wonder if we were allowed to have a normal relationship where we weren't trying to hide it if I'd be such a basket case and if I'd have had some an obscure set of feelings into adulthood? The emotions of "first love" are compounded with forbidden, out of reach, not allowed and lets throw in some general clinical mental mind fu*kery and I'm a basket case when my brain starts spinning out of control.

You could make a movie about us. It's Romeo and Juliet over decades but with an ending still waiting to be written.

And the crazy thing is that they say that the euphoric feeling of love fades over time. Not for me it's not. It's been intense and strong for a long time. It's almost getting too strong.

My mind feels broken. As I'm writing this, I'm sitting here in tears.

I do know that one quality I have through all of this is that I have courage. I was out for dinner with some college friends on the weekend. We were chatting and discussing about stuff and I opened up that I'd been going through some depression and anxiety challenges recently and I wasn't afraid of sharing some details.  As it turns out, my good friend across the table who's very successful muscled up courage and holding back some tears indicated that he'd been dealing with depression on and off for 10 years.  He thanked my for being open about it as it's not something he's told many people. I seem to be able to open people up who keep things bottled inside.

And even though this is a public forum but somewhat anonymous, I have no issues sharing as it's an extension of me. It's tricky to try to take emotions and communicate them through writing. I appreciate everyone's patience. I know many people won't be able to relate with what I'm going through, but there are some who will.

And there are points in time where I'm in the frame of mind where I totally don't recognize the person who wrote the above message.  It's all very surreal... Time is totally mind f**king my brain.

[Linea_Norway]

Big hug fro me, for support.

I totally get what you mean by meditating and the voice. It is much easier with a pleasant voice, than with a distracting, annoying voice. You know there are meditation apps, like insight timer, that has a range of voices that you can choose from?

[DadJokes]

I wish you the best of luck. Depression & BPD have hit me in waves throughout my life. I took a lot of medication when I was younger that didn't have a noticeable impact. The only thing that has kept me alive through everything is the fact that I wouldn't want to put my loved ones through such an ordeal. I don't know if there is a "cure" for any mental illness, but I hope you are able to find something that works for you.

[Glenstache]

My mind feels broken. As I'm writing this, I'm sitting here in tears.

I do know that one quality I have through all of this is that I have courage. I was out for dinner with some college friends on the weekend. We were chatting and discussing about stuff and I opened up that I'd been going through some depression and anxiety challenges recently and I wasn't afraid of sharing some details.  As it turns out, my good friend across the table who's very successful muscled up courage and holding back some tears indicated that he'd been dealing with depression on and off for 10 years.  He thanked my for being open about it as it's not something he's told many people. I seem to be able to open people up who keep things bottled inside.

And even though this is a public forum but somewhat anonymous, I have no issues sharing as it's an extension of me. It's tricky to try to take emotions and communicate them through writing. I appreciate everyone's patience. I know many people won't be able to relate with what I'm going through, but there are some who will.

And there are points in time where I'm in the frame of mind where I totally don't recognize the person who wrote the above message.  It's all very surreal... Time is totally mind f**king my brain.

I can relate to the bolded above, and have been there more times in my life than I'd care to consider. And good on you for being open about struggles with depression. It sounds like it was a heartfelt bridge to your friend at dinner to have that shared experience. The process of going through therapy and really getting into the nuts and bolts of how past experiences echo through our lives can feel a bit disorienting (or at least it was for me). Keep up with the courage.

As a side note, doing things for others can help alleviate depression sometimes. It helps foster feelings of connection (studies show even more than having others help us), which is generally helpful for a social species like us.

[kork]

Big hug fro me, for support.

I totally get what you mean by meditating and the voice. It is much easier with a pleasant voice, than with a distracting, annoying voice. You know there are meditation apps, like insight timer, that has a range of voices that you can choose from?

Thank-you.  Being the first to respond, that helped me quite a bit. I do have Headspace but have barely used it.  it just didn't feel quite right.  I've downloaded the Insight Timer app and will give it a shot.

I wish you the best of luck. Depression & BPD have hit me in waves throughout my life. I took a lot of medication when I was younger that didn't have a noticeable impact. The only thing that has kept me alive through everything is the fact that I wouldn't want to put my loved ones through such an ordeal. I don't know if there is a "cure" for any mental illness, but I hope you are able to find something that works for you.

It's crazy. The anxiety has always been there but it's been around events or scenarios that have an end. There was always a "timeline" whether it be school or career or whatever. This time it's different and I'm scared this is simply my new reality. This depression is new.  This is the first time I think I've felt it this way. The BPD is weird because I don't seem to have hypermania...  But my emotions are extremely heightened. If my head were filled with liquid, I feel like it's right up to the brim and any movement or tilt will cause it to overflow/cry.

My mind feels broken. As I'm writing this, I'm sitting here in tears.

I do know that one quality I have through all of this is that I have courage. I was out for dinner with some college friends on the weekend. We were chatting and discussing about stuff and I opened up that I'd been going through some depression and anxiety challenges recently and I wasn't afraid of sharing some details.  As it turns out, my good friend across the table who's very successful muscled up courage and holding back some tears indicated that he'd been dealing with depression on and off for 10 years.  He thanked my for being open about it as it's not something he's told many people. I seem to be able to open people up who keep things bottled inside.

And even though this is a public forum but somewhat anonymous, I have no issues sharing as it's an extension of me. It's tricky to try to take emotions and communicate them through writing. I appreciate everyone's patience. I know many people won't be able to relate with what I'm going through, but there are some who will.

And there are points in time where I'm in the frame of mind where I totally don't recognize the person who wrote the above message.  It's all very surreal... Time is totally mind f**king my brain.

I can relate to the bolded above, and have been there more times in my life than I'd care to consider. And good on you for being open about struggles with depression. It sounds like it was a heartfelt bridge to your friend at dinner to have that shared experience. The process of going through therapy and really getting into the nuts and bolts of how past experiences echo through our lives can feel a bit disorienting (or at least it was for me). Keep up with the courage.

As a side note, doing things for others can help alleviate depression sometimes. It helps foster feelings of connection (studies show even more than having others help us), which is generally helpful for a social species like us.

I'm wondering if I have a split personality? Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. There are times where I feel like I look over at myself an hour prior and think "who the hell was that and how on earth were you in such a 'weird' emotional and vulnerable space?"

My entire life is doing things for others. As a father with two daughters, my life is give, give, give. But I feel it's compulsory so it doesn't help fill the "I've done things for others" bucket. On top of competitive swimming, papers, tutors and helping around the house in significant ways (dishes, cleaning, cooking dinner, getting the kids off for school and seeing them when they come home, setting up the PTA meetings, Paediatrician appts, etc) I offer my help to others whenever I can. I actually helped my brother in a significant way which allowed him to purchase his home earlier this month. But as you know, depression can also make simply getting out of bed... hard.

I understand the deep need you have to feel seen. 

Do you feel your wife really sees you?  Can you open up to her about all of this?  I know that can be hard -- you probably don't want to burden her, or worry that it might come across as manipulation.  I struggled with that for a long time, due to the models I had when I was a kid/teenager.

What I have been finding is that the good people I want to keep in my life care, and listen, and don't feel burdened or manipulated.  And that gives me the strength to press on, hard as dealing with it all might be.

Thank you for sharing here.   

My wife and I have an extremely communicative relationship. I can tell her anything and she knows about everything I'm going through.

But as a result of us being able to share our inner-most thoughts and feelings, I feel like my relationship with my wife has not been as I thought it was and this ties into the whole feeling of not being seen. This is something that my therapist helped shed light on. What I described as being "peacocking" or "being the big dog" is quite likely my interpretation of what's really the issue... Not being seen.  As a child where my brother got all the attention all the way to an adult where I feel ignored and taken for granted.

Much of my heartache is that I was always under the impression that my wife and I shared the same emotions towards each other. Extremely strong and unbreakable. It was like a magical gift from the universe with Jack and Rose from Titanic intensity. Only, I've come to learn that and I'm not Jack.  I'm the guy she married after Jack. No matter how hard I try and how much I do, I will never have my wife as fully as one of her ex's. I described to my therapist that the best way I can describe it is that "when we die, I'll be searching for her, while she's searching for him."

That's just my interpretation of the feeling.

So, I'm trying to emotionally break from her. Not in a separation kind of way, but in a "I need to learn to love myself first" way. And it's very hard. I'm doing more things on my own whereas we used to do everything together. I thought that we were the perfect couple. The couple  that could spend all our time together. The couple that nothing could break apart. We'd been through hell and back. But now I realize that I was at the helm and she just went along for the ride. We'd work out together and we'd play  sports together. Now, I'm in a volleyball league on my own. She's joined a gym, on her own. Things like that.

The age difference is also becoming a big issue in my mind. When I was 20 and she was 27, not a big deal. I still felt like we were both young and starting our lives though a wee bit delayed for her. Same with 28 and 35. We're both still young. 35 and 43 was getting more real but at 40 and 48, she's 2 years from 50. Her peer group are all older now and they are kindof acting that way. I don't relate to people who grew up in the 80's. I grew up in the 90's.

For 23 years, I've always felt like the odd person out and these are the people she hung out with for years and years that she claims was the best time of her life.  Before she met me.

So now, at 40 I feel totally lost. I feel like I need to be 50 because of my wife, but I feel like I have more in common with 30 year olds. Facebook is killing me to the point where I've deleted the apps from my devices.  Lot's of my friends are turning 40 and EVERYONE is posting pics of when they were young and commenting how young everyone looked and so forth. Why is it that so many of my peers can seemingly move through life as they are.

I feel like I've been living in the 0-40 years old group all my life and it's felt normal. It isn't a sliding scale for me.  It's a grouping. I've been in that group of young people with shared interests and common elements.

Now, all of a sudden I've been picked up and dumped into the 40-80 year old section. It's a monumental shift. I know it's not right, but I find that I've extremely sensitive to it now. All of a sudden, when I'm driving by a recreation centre and it's "55+" I'm thinking "holy f*ck, my wife is 7 years away from being in that group." I've  still got 15 years. Plenty of time!

I'm also sensitive to the fact that I'm at the exact same age right now that my parents were when their marriage ended. And boy did it end. Alcohol issues, violence, and so forth. Not only did it end, but my mom married my father's wife's ex-husband. A couple years later, my father married my mothers husbands, ex-wife. And then a short while later I started a relationship with someone 7.5 years my senior who I felt like it was a gift from the universe. I felt like I was being seen.

Can we say my entire life has been fu*ked up relationships? And here I am, decades later seeking help for things that I simply can't comprehend or accept.

Also, I do feel like a part of this is also FIRE. It was my focus for years. FIRE was my shiny sports car or "thing" that I was working towards. That was the ball and I had my eye fixated on it. Now that I'm almost there, I was so pre-occupied with the idea that I could do whatever I wanted to do, I didn't bother to think about what I WOULD do. And because I work from home 4 days of the week on a very relaxed schedule, it already feels like I'm FIRE.

Ruminate, and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And repeat.

[partgypsy]

Wow. You have a lot going on there. And you have unnecessarily tied your wife's age, into your own unhappiness. At least you are still communicating, but does she know you intend to emotionally separate from her because it makes you feel "old" and you are not old yet. Yet stress, even self-imposed stress kills brain cells worse than an aging but active mind.

It's hard not to project so please ignore my further musings if not applicable. My ex went through a 5-7? unclear long period of emotionally and then physically cheating on me while flirting with a number of other females as the same time, putting me down, emotionally separating from me but denying it at the same time (it really did a number on me). And then he broke up with me, then broke up with his long time affair who was only a couple years younger, by starting an affair with someone 15 years younger than him, who emotionally is even less mature than that. I can pretty confidently say if you want a 30 something year old girlfriend rather than your "old" wife married status or not, you can probably get one. Maybe it's made him feel younger? He certainly looks probably a decade older and more drained then when he was with me, and he did accomplish fucking up our whole family dynamic to the tune our oldest daughter has already said she may not want to be in a relationship or have kids, but YOLO.

Shorter response. Age differences actually mean less as you get older. That you perceive the opposite makes me feel that not only are you in pain, but you are having a major mid life crisis. Whether you understand it or not you are going to inflict more pain on your wife and family the way you are dealing with this (ruminating on these thoughts). You want to be young and hang out with younger people. You want to be selfish. You want to be the center of attention.  Maybe i'm being cynical but think it is better to let her know, and separate from your wife and life or (as my husband termed it) "status quo". Maybe you will be able to work through your issues and return to your marriage, maybe you won't (this is what usually happens) but at least it won't cause so much fall out.

https://psychcentral.com/lib/midlife-crises-affecting-men-and-families/

[BicycleB]

^There's a lot going on here! I hope it all works out for you (and your wife), Kork.

No special wisdom here, except that for people I've known, this phase where someone goes through a lot of turmoil at some aging pivot point (such as 40, or 47) often puts marriages at risk. Sometimes people regret that later, but I can't automatically say what the best course is. Which is probably fine because you have to make your own decisions anyway.

I did know a woman whose husband divorced her for another woman. I was her next beau, entering the picture after she wore black (as in mourning) every day for a year without even knowing it after she discovered the affair. She thought they'd been fine, he had apparently wanted... who knows, I didn't hear his side of the story. Except that they'd had children young, and she was older than I was, and the boys had become young men by this point, and they Examined Me Verrrry Closely! They concluded I was the perfect medicine for their mom, at least while we were together, which was a few years. Notably, they felt Dad had a mistake in dumping Mom. Their biggest criticism: Dad's new lady was exactly like Mom, just a few years younger, so why the hell did he have to dump Mom for that?

I don't know that this story relates to your case, except that issues of age are tricky, and look different every time another 7 to 10 years go by. And, of course, that sometimes it's easier at the time to break apart than to stay together, but sometimes we regret the breakup.

More deeply, I feel like the issues of Lost Love and Those Were the Good Times are part of the bigger category of "I wish for something that satisfies me inside, that fills some indescribable hole." I sometimes think that when we have such a feeling, different situations on the outside get attached to it. Maybe we imagine that some specific object or person or situation will fill the hole, so if we can just attain that object or get that person's attention or arrange that desired situation, the hole would be filled. Which is kind of tricky, because sometimes there really is something fulfilling about a relationship or a situation, but often the hole is inside of us in a way that can't fully be touched from the outside, it can only be healed (I think). Which means that assigning the key importance to the external is futile. And, if true, also means that blaming the external factor is futile. Which circles back to the story above, in that if we attempt to manipulate the external unduly, we can hurt people unnecessarily. Yet we would never want that.

I suppose both you and your wife may have a bit of that longing going on, but from different perspectives. It must be heartbreaking and lonely to realize your wife hasn't been feeling the same way about you as you've been feeling about her.

Sorry to ramble on. You're obviously a very well meaning guy who's in the midst of a very difficult time. I hope for the best. (manly backslap, shoulder hold or hug, your choice)

[kork]

Wow. You have a lot going on there. And you have unnecessarily tied your wife's age, into your own unhappiness. At least you are still communicating, but does she know you intend to emotionally separate from her because it makes you feel "old" and you are not old yet. Yet stress, even self-imposed stress kills brain cells worse than an aging but active mind.

It's hard not to project so please ignore my further musings if not applicable. My ex went through a 5-7? unclear long period of emotionally and then physically cheating on me while flirting with a number of other females as the same time, putting me down, emotionally separating from me but denying it at the same time (it really did a number on me). And then he broke up with me, then broke up with his long time affair who was only a couple years younger, by starting an affair with someone 15 years younger than him, who emotionally is even less mature than that. I can pretty confidently say if you want a 30 something year old girlfriend rather than your "old" wife married status or not, you can probably get one. Maybe it's made him feel younger? He certainly looks probably a decade older and more drained then when he was with me, and he did accomplish fucking up our whole family dynamic to the tune our oldest daughter has already said she may not want to be in a relationship or have kids, but YOLO.

Shorter response. Age differences actually mean less as you get older. That you perceive the opposite makes me feel that not only are you in pain, but you are having a major mid life crisis. Whether you understand it or not you are going to inflict more pain on your wife and family the way you are dealing with this (ruminating on these thoughts). You want to be young and hang out with younger people. You want to be selfish. You want to be the center of attention.  Maybe i'm being cynical but think it is better to let her know, and separate from your wife and life or (as my husband termed it) "status quo". Maybe you will be able to work through your issues and return to your marriage, maybe you won't (this is what usually happens) but at least it won't cause so much fall out.

https://psychcentral.com/lib/midlife-crises-affecting-men-and-families/

I do not have the urge to find a younger girlfriend. I want my wife. What's killing me is the idea of losing her. Substituting her with someone else will not solve that.

"Oh, but there's plenty of fish in the sea you say?"

Not for me.

She's my first real love and my bond with her is incredibly strong. I'm not wanting to sacrifice that. It just may be "too strong." Imagine marrying the person you experienced "first love" with.  It's a blessing that I haven't had to go through hurt and heartache and a broken heart. But I also don't understand how someone can heal from it and move on as she claims to have done, even with those she felt more intensely towards.

I truly believe that I'll never meet someone that I'm going to have the same level of intensity and emotion towards. And our "grown-up" love is very strong. But my inner child critic has a hard time accepting that she could have been more intensely involved with someone else.  I understand the "how" but I just need to somehow learn to accept it.

Equally, I'm going through hurt and heartache right now pre-planning the loss of her.

Also, I'm not trying to act younger than I am.  I just feel that way. I enjoy driving around with the windows down listening to "Ol' town road" or "Purple Hat" <-- Favourite song!

My dream would be waking up one morning and have a different perception and I'm actively trying to uncover how to do that through therapy, mindfulness, inner critic discovery (which I think I may be onto something), etc.

So while I can appreciate that other people may have seen some similar symptoms and MLC is the suspect, I'm not one to be wanting to destroy my life and my family in pursuit of something else.

^There's a lot going on here! I hope it all works out for you (and your wife), Kork.

No special wisdom here, except that for people I've known, this phase where someone goes through a lot of turmoil at some aging pivot point (such as 40, or 47) often puts marriages at risk. Sometimes people regret that later, but I can't automatically say what the best course is. Which is probably fine because you have to make your own decisions anyway.

I did know a woman whose husband divorced her for another woman. I was her next beau, entering the picture after she wore black (as in mourning) every day for a year without even knowing it after she discovered the affair. She thought they'd been fine, he had apparently wanted... who knows, I didn't hear his side of the story. Except that they'd had children young, and she was older than I was, and the boys had become young men by this point, and they Examined Me Verrrry Closely! They concluded I was the perfect medicine for their mom, at least while we were together, which was a few years. Notably, they felt Dad had a mistake in dumping Mom. Their biggest criticism: Dad's new lady was exactly like Mom, just a few years younger, so why the hell did he have to dump Mom for that?

I don't know that this story relates to your case, except that issues of age are tricky, and look different every time another 7 to 10 years go by. And, of course, that sometimes it's easier at the time to break apart than to stay together, but sometimes we regret the breakup.

More deeply, I feel like the issues of Lost Love and Those Were the Good Times are part of the bigger category of "I wish for something that satisfies me inside, that fills some indescribable hole." I sometimes think that when we have such a feeling, different situations on the outside get attached to it. Maybe we imagine that some specific object or person or situation will fill the hole, so if we can just attain that object or get that person's attention or arrange that desired situation, the hole would be filled. Which is kind of tricky, because sometimes there really is something fulfilling about a relationship or a situation, but often the hole is inside of us in a way that can't fully be touched from the outside, it can only be healed (I think). Which means that assigning the key importance to the external is futile. And, if true, also means that blaming the external factor is futile. Which circles back to the story above, in that if we attempt to manipulate the external unduly, we can hurt people unnecessarily. Yet we would never want that.

I suppose both you and your wife may have a bit of that longing going on, but from different perspectives. It must be heartbreaking and lonely to realize your wife hasn't been feeling the same way about you as you've been feeling about her.

Sorry to ramble on. You're obviously a very well meaning guy who's in the midst of a very difficult time. I hope for the best. (manly backslap, shoulder hold or hug, your choice)

I'll take the hug, thank-you.

Fully aware that this is an issue that lies within me and it may be out of control due to previously mentioned mental illness.

Bipolar is still something I'm grappling with. Depression is something I've recently learned and experienced and anxiety... well, decades of experience with that f*cking b*tch of an emotion.

To your point, I'm looking to heal. I'm not wanting an affair nor do I want to lose my wife. I cannot feel as strongly about another as I do my wife and that's special. The one person I'd like to learn to love more is myself, not someone else. This I believe to be true from the very pit of my soul.

She admits that she doesn't feel the longing for her ex at all anymore and I fully believe her. The observation is more so that her ex that was the most intense "young love." It was the promise of a better life and sailing the great lakes. Starting a life together and doing all those things together. She put all her eggs in that basket with him and he broke them. He kept being an a$$hole and standing her up, leaving her at the end of the driveway expecting to go on a weekend getaway but never showing up. Crying herself back up the driveway and feeling stupid for trusting so much. And over and over again it happened.

I was 4 years later. By that point, she was shelled up. She couldn't put herself out there fully.

A good friend of mine told me something that's very true as it pertains to boxing. The first time you win the champion belt is always the most intense. By the time you've won it 5 times, you've experience the loss 4 times.

My wife has won the belt 5 times and lost it 4 times. It's still good, but it's not her first win.

I've won it once, and still have the fuc*ing thing. I'm not wanting to let go and I'm fighting to keep it. But I'm getting the $hit beat out of me right now.

It must be heartbreaking and lonely to realize your wife hasn't been feeling the same way about you as you've been feeling about her.

More than I can describe. It's keeping me in a panicked anxiety mode and feel very vulnerable and exposed.

[Ozlady]

Thanks for all your sharing Kork...

I recognise some of your symptoms myself and it will/may help me understand my husband  and my relationship and issues as we age...

I wish you all the best in your life journey....not easy ( my father in law was bipolar ) ...love yourself a bit more...

Married life is not meant to be perfect but it's a series of Compromise.