Author Topic: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia  (Read 11150 times)

Hula Hoop

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FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« on: December 07, 2021, 01:40:07 PM »
So my adult sibling and 13 year old daughter just got diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type.  I started reading about it more and more and a lightbulb went off.  I think I have it too. My assessment is scheduled for the new year but I've been thinking about it and I think that there is some kind of relationship between my (possible) ADHD and my attraction to FIRE and failure to align my self-worth with my professional life the way so many others seem to do.  Something has always felt 'off' to me with work, no matter what job I've had and I've always fought the urge to just run out the door and never come back.  No surprise that one of my favorite movies is "Office Space."

I also got diagnosed with dyslexia as a child (late 70s) because I couldn't read but received no special treatment and, once I learned to read, I kind of put it out of my mind.  I'm now reading that dyslexia is actually a life long thing and there's more to it than not knowing how to read --so maybe some of my 'differences' at work (taking ages to read things, having to proofread a million times, spelling mistakes if i don't use spellcheck and problems remembering common words amongst other things) are due to the dyslexia.

Anyway i guess I'll find out if I have this issue when I do my assessment but I was wondering if there are others with learning disorders here and, if so, if they feel that there's a relationship between it and their mustachianism.

9patch

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 01:46:06 PM »
Just wanted to say that Office Space is one of my favorite movies too!

Poeirenta

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 02:25:47 PM »
I have dyscalculia (like dyslexia, but with numbers), which is ironic given that I'm the MMM/FIRE nerd in the family. I ask DH to check my #'s a lot, and he's in charge of tip calculation unless I have my phone at the ready!

Now that I'm on sabbatical/test RE, I am soooo relieved that I don't have to deal with work budgets anymore. That right there has been a huge part of my decompression. Just thinking about it now is making me anxious!

One of the other hallmarks of dyscalculia is difficulty with learning things like dance steps...I was once cajoled into trying out square dancing with some friends, and the poor elderly folks (most of the dance club) who knew what they were doing had to physically push me around to get me in the right place at the right time. I noped out pretty quick...I didn't want anyone to get hurt!


Hula Hoop

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 03:56:36 PM »
Wow I wonder if I have dyscalcula too?  I've always been horrible at learning dance steps.  I once did a salsa dancing class which was disastrous.  When I was at school i was OK at math but made millions of 'careless errors'.  I understood the math but could not pay attention enough to details to work things out correctly.

samanil

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2021, 05:38:22 PM »
I forked over 4 big ones to rent Office Space off youtube just a few days ago, and it dawned on me that it's not just one of my favorite movies, but may be my absolute favorite! I actually got some insights from it this time around  that inform my own life and work (specifically that I try way too hard and get agitated when things obstruct my productivity, to the point where it is counterproductive; Pete addresses this when he first talks to the Bob's, telling them he gets nothing from being productive, and his only real incentive is to avoid getting fired. I would probably be better off if I cared significantly less, and people would probably respect me more paradoxically).

Anyways, my god mom is a therapist (edit: psychiatrist) and has told me she suspects I have add. I've never been formally diagnosed with it but it's interesting to consider. I've never been very motivated career wise and only started giving a shit when I learned I could become free through Mustachianism. I've never cared much about career labels and have always had an impulse to escape.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 05:40:31 PM by samanil »

Poeirenta

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2021, 05:38:40 PM »
Yup, I got the "you're just careless" thing a lot from teachers and my mom. It was my college chemistry professor who figured it out: she knew I understood the concepts and had all the diagrams right, but when we went through my equations notebook she saw that I had flipped number order in many spots. I have terrible number memory, and can't do math in my head unless it's very basic. The only reason I can recite the 3s multiplication table is because Schoolhouse Rock did a song about it! If I ever get pulled over and asked to count backwards by x, I'm screwed.

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MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2021, 11:58:04 PM »
I may be wrong but think MMM has ADHD too.

Hula Hoop

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2021, 03:12:39 AM »
I may be wrong but think MMM has ADHD too.

Interesting.  My theory is that those of us with learning disorders of various kinds (diagnosed or undiagnosed) fit in less in the world of work.  So we tend to end up on this forum.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2021, 03:23:28 AM »
I may be wrong but think MMM has ADHD too.

Interesting.  My theory is that those of us with learning disorders of various kinds (diagnosed or undiagnosed) fit in less in the world of work.  So we tend to end up on this forum.

Dyslexia is also extremely common among the most successful people in the world.

People who have had to adapt in ways that are different from others can often have distinct advantages along with their disadvantages.

Having to process things differently from the norm can create a lot of opportunities, and open you up to processing the world differently.

FTR, I'm dyslexic, and it's absolutely benefited me more than hindered me.

Sure, I misread A LOT of things when reading quickly. It's made me write some dumb responses in threads here. But who cares?

What it has done is make me shockingly efficient at teasing out key pieces of info because I pay more attention to how things are written than the details in them. So I can absorb the key points of massive amounts of info because I can track where those points are.

It has also made me extremely attentive to what and how people say things.

Yes, I miss details, and yes, when I have to pay attention to ALL of the details in a document, it's painful, but I rarely need to do that. I've built a life around my strengths, and they have been remarkably useful.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 03:27:51 AM by Malcat »

KarefulKactus15

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2021, 04:09:28 AM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2021, 04:45:49 AM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

I don't know about everyone, I have like, anti ADHD, I hyper focus on basically anything I pay attention to and am extremely disciplined and always have been, even as a child.

I require A LOT of stimulation, but in a controlled way, and stimulants DO NOT improve my performance. I can, and have studied very dry material for 16 hours straight only to wake up and do it again the next day. I ploughed thorough 30hrs of dry material at double speed over the last 3 days and there isn't even a rush or pressure for me to do so. I have a year to get through 90hrs.

So I'm not convinced it's universal.

wageslave23

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2021, 04:52:08 AM »
I might have ADD. In college, I could NOT sit through an entire class. So I skipped almost all of the lectures and as many labs as I could.  I'd then cram for a few days before midterm and finals. I can't learn by lecture for the life of me but give me a book and I can teach myself anything in a couple of days. Lectures just don't move fast enough for me and I have no control.  Same thing with sitting through movies. But I don't think the problem is me, it's modern society. And yes, it definitely has motivated me to FIRE.
 

Freedom2016

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2021, 06:26:49 AM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

I don't know about everyone, I have like, anti ADHD, I hyper focus on basically anything I pay attention to and am extremely disciplined and always have been, even as a child.

I require A LOT of stimulation, but in a controlled way, and stimulants DO NOT improve my performance. I can, and have studied very dry material for 16 hours straight only to wake up and do it again the next day. I ploughed thorough 30hrs of dry material at double speed over the last 3 days and there isn't even a rush or pressure for me to do so. I have a year to get through 90hrs.

So I'm not convinced it's universal.

My 9yo was just diagnosed with ADHD, and one of the things I'm learning is that hyperfocus is also a common trait; ADHD isn't only about inattention. If something grabs my kid's interest, he will dive in for hours upon hours. When he's not interested in something, his attention wanders.

This Youtube channel has been very educational for me: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q


boarder42

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2021, 06:28:44 AM »
i have adhd its a common trait among high performers.  I would agree with the attention stated above here if i like something i can focus forever on it if i dont i dont care.  I wouldnt medicate I never have

PoutineLover

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2021, 06:46:30 AM »
I might have ADHD, I was treated for it in university but never received an official diagnosis. When I read about it, so much seems to fit and it explains a lot about how I function. I think it definitely contributes to my desire to FIRE. My job isn't really important to me, it's a means to an end. I just hope that I can keep performing well enough to get me there in the meantime.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2021, 06:55:23 AM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

I don't know about everyone, I have like, anti ADHD, I hyper focus on basically anything I pay attention to and am extremely disciplined and always have been, even as a child.

I require A LOT of stimulation, but in a controlled way, and stimulants DO NOT improve my performance. I can, and have studied very dry material for 16 hours straight only to wake up and do it again the next day. I ploughed thorough 30hrs of dry material at double speed over the last 3 days and there isn't even a rush or pressure for me to do so. I have a year to get through 90hrs.

So I'm not convinced it's universal.

My 9yo was just diagnosed with ADHD, and one of the things I'm learning is that hyperfocus is also a common trait; ADHD isn't only about inattention. If something grabs my kid's interest, he will dive in for hours upon hours. When he's not interested in something, his attention wanders.

This Youtube channel has been very educational for me: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q

Yep, I worked with special needs kids for years. It's how I know I really, really don't fit the profile of ADHD.

My point was that I can hyper focus on anything I choose to, no matter how boring and dry it is. I simply disagree that everyone has ADHD characteristics and that everyone would perform better on ADHD meds.

I've been put on several for my fatigue and borderline narcolepsy neurological symptoms and they have made my performance worse, not better.

Nate R

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2021, 07:06:12 AM »
I may be wrong but think MMM has ADHD too.

Interesting.  My theory is that those of us with learning disorders of various kinds (diagnosed or undiagnosed) fit in less in the world of work.  So we tend to end up on this forum.

He mentioned it here: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2020/08/04/the-sweet-spot/

Watchmaker

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2021, 09:02:00 AM »
I have dyslexia and dyscalculia. Both have had drawbacks, but my adaptations in dealing with them have also helped make me a good innovator (which has been valuable in my career). I'm not the guy you want reviewing contract language (though I sometimes have to), but I do have over 40 patents.

I've only recently realized that I likely have an associated auditory processing disorder which explains some other issues I have. I wish this had been better explained to me a couple decades ago.

cannotWAIT

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2021, 09:33:41 AM »
I don’t really think I have an attention disorder, but this thread has made me realize that wanting to get out of X is the thread running through my entire life. It’s almost like an oppositional reflex—even fun things often feel like too much pressure. I’ve somehow managed to be pretty high achieving despite this character flaw, which seems miraculous to me now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 11:08:32 AM by cannotWAIT »

Fire2025

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2021, 09:48:30 AM »
I'm dyslexic, I see the world a little sideways and that has made all the difference, in a good way, in my life.

I can't say that it makes my FIRE journey inevitable or that it makes me more or less cut out for "normal" work.  When managers utilize my able to problem solve, they're usually very happy with my work and I can be a very valuable member of their team.

It does limit who can see me as an intelligent addition to their team.  The spelling and typos can make some people so crazy.  Once a manager decides it means I'm an idiot, well, the jig is up, they can't unsee me that way, because the typos will always reinforce this idea. 

The older I get, the more comfortable I become with the fact that I would rather see the world the way I see it, than have everyone see me as intelligent.  Potato/ tomato and all that.

Dyslexics of the world untie!!!

Hula Hoop

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2021, 10:03:01 AM »
Dyslexics of the world untie!!!

Yeah!  That's the kind of thing I'd write too. 

Unfortunately, I feel like my job is very stressful as it's all about attention to detail and deadlines and noticing typos.  I'd like to change to do something else but it's tough as I'm currently the only breadwinner.  My plan is to get to a certain point and then do 'barista FIRE' with a job that's more in tune with my various difficulties.

I just wish that people paid attention to this stuff when I was a kid.  I was constantly made to feel 'stupid' while at school as I couldn't read while others could. 

Watchmaker

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2021, 10:19:13 AM »
Dyslexics of the world untie!!!

Yeah!  That's the kind of thing I'd write too. 

A few words I can guarantee I will type wrong:

tlakign
jsut
udnerstand
goign

I'd never thought about it before, but it looks like I tend to reverse letters 2 and 3 and also flip ng endings. Anyone do the same?

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2021, 11:44:08 AM »
Dyslexics of the world untie!!!

Yeah!  That's the kind of thing I'd write too. 

Unfortunately, I feel like my job is very stressful as it's all about attention to detail and deadlines and noticing typos.  I'd like to change to do something else but it's tough as I'm currently the only breadwinner.  My plan is to get to a certain point and then do 'barista FIRE' with a job that's more in tune with my various difficulties.

I just wish that people paid attention to this stuff when I was a kid.  I was constantly made to feel 'stupid' while at school as I couldn't read while others could.

For me, I aggressively avoided courses and tasks that didn't play to my strengths.

So I ferociously avoided courses in school with exams with essays for example, which lead me more towards sciences. But I was a creative thinker, which lead to taking a lot of courses with a combo of multiple choice exams and independent or group projects.

I've also avoided any jobs where I have to anything with documents other than extract key points. So for example, I would never be a lawyer, but being a medical professional is great since I had staff who meticulously read long reports and have me highlights, or key facts were always summarized and bolded.

And if I needed to review, say relevant research myself, I had the ability to review quickly and pull salient information quickly from sources because that's where my strengths are.

I also read people ridiculously well because I pay more attention to the way things are written and said than I do to the actual content. So careers where I'm people-facing, especially in a constructive conflict kind of way are my power role.

I was never going to be the sort guy trying to be a basketball star, and I refused to hold it against myself that I wouldn't be good at that.

If I'm not good at something, I just don't do it.

Fire2025

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2021, 12:00:28 PM »
Dyslexics of the world untie!!!

Yeah!  That's the kind of thing I'd write too. 

Unfortunately, I feel like my job is very stressful as it's all about attention to detail and deadlines and noticing typos.  I'd like to change to do something else but it's tough as I'm currently the only breadwinner.  My plan is to get to a certain point and then do 'barista FIRE' with a job that's more in tune with my various difficulties.

I just wish that people paid attention to this stuff when I was a kid.  I was constantly made to feel 'stupid' while at school as I couldn't read while others could.

The Dyslexics of the World Untie is from a Far Side cartoon, not mine.  Just wanted to give credit for that.

I hear you on the made to feel stupid, I totally understand.  I'm sorry you had that experience too.  I've also found that one of the hardest things to come to terms with as an adult. 

When people want to "measure" smarts I'll never measure up, pun intended.  But at some point most people stop measuring, and thank goodness timing everything.  It's all about getting the job done.  I get the job done.

And the older I get, the less I care what other people think about me, and that has made a big difference too.  Good luck on your journey.

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2021, 12:48:39 PM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

I don't know about everyone, I have like, anti ADHD, I hyper focus on basically anything I pay attention to and am extremely disciplined and always have been, even as a child.

I require A LOT of stimulation, but in a controlled way, and stimulants DO NOT improve my performance. I can, and have studied very dry material for 16 hours straight only to wake up and do it again the next day. I ploughed thorough 30hrs of dry material at double speed over the last 3 days and there isn't even a rush or pressure for me to do so. I have a year to get through 90hrs.

So I'm not convinced it's universal.

The bolded sounds like my son. When it was suggested he was ADHD, it didn't feel right, but we tried giving him caffeine as a test. It didn't work well at all.  Requiring controlled stimulation (physical and mental) is a perfect description of what works best for him. He can also hyperfocus, but it seems to be something he is in control of (this is a trait I also share, so it was never a concern to me, and I am 100% not ADHD).

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2021, 01:04:02 PM »
I feel like everyone has add or ADHD or can recognize a few traits of it in themselves.  Coming from someone with an ADHD diagnosis.

It seems Adderall or equivalent takes everyone to their most productive form of self, almost like an unfair advantage against those without.

I say all that meanwhile I stopped medication for ADHD like 12 years ago. I think once I passed college math or the harder parts of the program.  I felt like there was a pretty extreme personality change.  All business, no fun.     I'm 2-3 times more productive when medicated.   I could have exited the workforce at like 24 instead of 29 if I took Adderall every day! Haha.    But I didn't, 10/10 no regrets.

I don't know about everyone, I have like, anti ADHD, I hyper focus on basically anything I pay attention to and am extremely disciplined and always have been, even as a child.

I require A LOT of stimulation, but in a controlled way, and stimulants DO NOT improve my performance. I can, and have studied very dry material for 16 hours straight only to wake up and do it again the next day. I ploughed thorough 30hrs of dry material at double speed over the last 3 days and there isn't even a rush or pressure for me to do so. I have a year to get through 90hrs.

So I'm not convinced it's universal.

The bolded sounds like my son. When it was suggested he was ADHD, it didn't feel right, but we tried giving him caffeine as a test. It didn't work well at all.  Requiring controlled stimulation (physical and mental) is a perfect description of what works best for him. He can also hyperfocus, but it seems to be something he is in control of (this is a trait I also share, so it was never a concern to me, and I am 100% not ADHD).

Yeah, sounds like me. I needed an enormous amount of additional challenge in school, but I was able to generate most of it myself until my teen years where I slowly lost the capacity to tolerate lectures. I can only do them now at double speed while also doing something else. Anything slower and I get too aggravated. I'm watching a 6 hour public health/infection control lecture, which UNBELIEVABLY boring since I don't even work in a clinic anymore, so I've got it going at double speed and typing here so that I can actually absorb it. The lecturer literally just poured himself a glass of scotch and said "I know, this is really boring, I'm going to drink and you should too" LOL

BookLoverL

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2021, 01:49:46 PM »
I'm not sure yet if I have it, but I'm looking into the possibility that I might have ADHD in addition to my Tourette's. (Waiting for the NHS to send me an appointment for it after being referred - they have quite a long waiting list for non-urgent mental health type conditions at the moment.)

Certainly I never seem to be able to focus on any one project for very long, hop between different things a lot, and occasionally do things like "become completely obsessed with a TV show for 3 weeks to the point where I can't think of anything else and am annoyed that I have to stop watching the show to eat and sleep". And it's only recently when I put my house chores into an app that reminds me what chores I'm supposed to be doing each day that I've been managing to actually keep on top of my chores. Otherwise I just sort of forget that my laundry needs doing until I'm nearly at the last t-shirt, etc.

I do think being neurodivergent in some way definitely may cause people to be more interested in pursuing FIRE, because it's just another thing that can make it tougher to deal with a standard work week in various ways. Even before I got Tourette's, which makes it harder for me to concentrate at work because I'm also concentrating on the Tourette's, I was already like, "you want me to do the *same thing every week*??? for *40 whole hours a week*??? Forever???"

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2021, 06:42:02 PM »
Interesting discussion.

I have sometimes thought I might have ADD but it doesn't really fit.  Some of the new material coming out on women on the autistic spectrum is a bit closer, but not really.

At this point I think of myself as a Renaissance woman, interested in lots of things.  Excellent focus if I am interested in something (including staying up to 3 AM to finish a book), pretty good focus if I need to learn/understand something, otherwise a scatter-brain who looks organized because I have systems. 

And I don't like most audio books because they are too slow - I read fast.


alex753

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2021, 07:54:35 PM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority? 

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2021, 07:58:41 PM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

use2betrix

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2021, 08:06:10 PM »
I had like a nearly all day psychology evaluation in my early 20’s and was diagnosed with dysnomia (remembering words), and a non verbal learning disorder (organizing thoughts, understanding concepts).

It’s something I’ve learned to work with over the years and have found a lot of workarounds. The main part that still impacts me is drawing blanks for common words. I’ve learned to just not care otherwise as I’m often well spoken otherwise (and why I prefer writing/emails vs meetings).

alex753

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2021, 08:07:26 PM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD." 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 08:11:09 PM by alex753 »

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2021, 08:50:49 PM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD."

I've worked with special needs kids on and off for decades. There literally are endless therapies, supports, resources, etc available.

There are so many different manifestations of ADHD, cool for you that you get by just fine without any interventions, I have always managed my dyslexia fine without supports. Some of us are lucky.

Others need interventions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think we should judge people for that.

ETA: my ex was big into reading philosophy as he had a philosophy PhD and he was a fucking lunatic, so reading philosophy, to me, isn't a great substitute for therapy when it's indicated. Maybe it is for you, but not for people who need significant help.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 08:53:50 PM by Malcat »

MoseyingAlong

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2021, 11:37:33 PM »
Interesting discussion.

I have sometimes thought I might have ADD but it doesn't really fit.  Some of the new material coming out on women on the autistic spectrum is a bit closer, but not really.

At this point I think of myself as a Renaissance woman, interested in lots of things.  Excellent focus if I am interested in something (including staying up to 3 AM to finish a book), pretty good focus if I need to learn/understand something, otherwise a scatter-brain who looks organized because I have systems. 

And I don't like most audio books because they are too slow - I read fast.

@RetiredAt63
Thanks for describing me!
Your succinct description is very helpful.

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2021, 06:30:43 AM »
Interesting discussion.

I have sometimes thought I might have ADD but it doesn't really fit.  Some of the new material coming out on women on the autistic spectrum is a bit closer, but not really.

At this point I think of myself as a Renaissance woman, interested in lots of things.  Excellent focus if I am interested in something (including staying up to 3 AM to finish a book), pretty good focus if I need to learn/understand something, otherwise a scatter-brain who looks organized because I have systems. 

And I don't like most audio books because they are too slow - I read fast.

@RetiredAt63
Thanks for describing me!
Your succinct description is very helpful.

Which part is You? All of it? Or basically Renaissance person?

I guess we are twins separated at birth?   ;-) 

I look at how limited in activity scope our lives are today, compared to so many of our ancestors, and think our talents just don't have enough outlets. 

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2021, 07:36:32 AM »
Interesting discussion.

I have sometimes thought I might have ADD but it doesn't really fit.  Some of the new material coming out on women on the autistic spectrum is a bit closer, but not really.

At this point I think of myself as a Renaissance woman, interested in lots of things.  Excellent focus if I am interested in something (including staying up to 3 AM to finish a book), pretty good focus if I need to learn/understand something, otherwise a scatter-brain who looks organized because I have systems. 

And I don't like most audio books because they are too slow - I read fast.

@RetiredAt63
Thanks for describing me!
Your succinct description is very helpful.

Which part is You? All of it? Or basically Renaissance person?

I guess we are twins separated at birth?   ;-) 

I look at how limited in activity scope our lives are today, compared to so many of our ancestors, and think our talents just don't have enough outlets.

This is why I've never done just one thing.

It's also given me huge diversification in professional options.

I'm seriously disabled, can't work full time, can't work standing, can't work sitting in an office chair, can't work on a computer for very long, can't work a job that can't afford me to suddenly take a week off for illness if I need to, ect, etc. So that rules out A LOT of jobs.

And yet, I have more career options than most unemployed 40 year old people because my skill set is broad.

alex753

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2021, 08:25:11 AM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD."

I've worked with special needs kids on and off for decades. There literally are endless therapies, supports, resources, etc available.

There are so many different manifestations of ADHD, cool for you that you get by just fine without any interventions, I have always managed my dyslexia fine without supports. Some of us are lucky.

Others need interventions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think we should judge people for that.

ETA: my ex was big into reading philosophy as he had a philosophy PhD and he was a fucking lunatic, so reading philosophy, to me, isn't a great substitute for therapy when it's indicated. Maybe it is for you, but not for people who need significant help.

I can see that.  We've all seen some people that are obviously in the minority where they have no choice whatsoever to have dysfunctional symptoms. Like the ones that visibly manifest to other people, like tourettes, severe autism, just throwing some stuff out there.

It just seems to me that the vast vast majority of uncomfortable symptoms "labels" are reflexive to societies physical and mental culture. 

I said to myself, more often than not, Physicians and psychiatrists are treating symptoms of society, rather than an obviously mal-progressed physical or mental structure of the person themselves.  In other words, 100%, because we are starting to attach all of our focus on external electronics, even those people with otherwise normal physical and mental structure can develop dysfunctional behaviors and physical issues.

A good example is optometrists can mostly tell with observation and not questioning that your eyes are maladapting to observing screens and tiny screens. Those eyes are otherwise normal, but develop dysfunction as a symptom of society and it's culture.

IMO, you can extend that explanation, once again, to almost every single "label" or condition we have for people. 

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2021, 08:34:43 AM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD."

I've worked with special needs kids on and off for decades. There literally are endless therapies, supports, resources, etc available.

There are so many different manifestations of ADHD, cool for you that you get by just fine without any interventions, I have always managed my dyslexia fine without supports. Some of us are lucky.

Others need interventions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think we should judge people for that.

ETA: my ex was big into reading philosophy as he had a philosophy PhD and he was a fucking lunatic, so reading philosophy, to me, isn't a great substitute for therapy when it's indicated. Maybe it is for you, but not for people who need significant help.

I can see that.  We've all seen some people that are obviously in the minority where they have no choice whatsoever to have dysfunctional symptoms. Like the ones that visibly manifest to other people, like tourettes, severe autism, just throwing some stuff out there.

It just seems to me that the vast vast majority of uncomfortable symptoms "labels" are reflexive to societies physical and mental culture. 

I said to myself, more often than not, Physicians and psychiatrists are treating symptoms of society, rather than an obviously mal-progressed physical or mental structure of the person themselves.  In other words, 100%, because we are starting to attach all of our focus on external electronics, even those people with otherwise normal physical and mental structure can develop dysfunctional behaviors and physical issues.

A good example is optometrists can mostly tell with observation and not questioning that your eyes are maladapting to observing screens and tiny screens. Those eyes are otherwise normal, but develop dysfunction as a symptom of society and it's culture.

IMO, you can extend that explanation, once again, to almost every single "label" or condition we have for people.

As a licensed medical professional who is in the process of getting another license in clinical psychology, I'm going to politely disagree with you.


alex753

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2021, 08:37:02 AM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD."

I've worked with special needs kids on and off for decades. There literally are endless therapies, supports, resources, etc available.

There are so many different manifestations of ADHD, cool for you that you get by just fine without any interventions, I have always managed my dyslexia fine without supports. Some of us are lucky.

Others need interventions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think we should judge people for that.

ETA: my ex was big into reading philosophy as he had a philosophy PhD and he was a fucking lunatic, so reading philosophy, to me, isn't a great substitute for therapy when it's indicated. Maybe it is for you, but not for people who need significant help.

I can see that.  We've all seen some people that are obviously in the minority where they have no choice whatsoever to have dysfunctional symptoms. Like the ones that visibly manifest to other people, like tourettes, severe autism, just throwing some stuff out there.

It just seems to me that the vast vast majority of uncomfortable symptoms "labels" are reflexive to societies physical and mental culture. 

I said to myself, more often than not, Physicians and psychiatrists are treating symptoms of society, rather than an obviously mal-progressed physical or mental structure of the person themselves.  In other words, 100%, because we are starting to attach all of our focus on external electronics, even those people with otherwise normal physical and mental structure can develop dysfunctional behaviors and physical issues.

A good example is optometrists can mostly tell with observation and not questioning that your eyes are maladapting to observing screens and tiny screens. Those eyes are otherwise normal, but develop dysfunction as a symptom of society and it's culture.

IMO, you can extend that explanation, once again, to almost every single "label" or condition we have for people.

As a licensed medical professional who is in the process of getting another license in clinical psychology, I'm going to politely disagree with you.

That's fine.  I know most people aren't in position to agree with the fact most physical and mental conditions are symptoms of society.

BookLoverL

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2021, 09:12:06 AM »
While it is possible to get e.g. situational depression from being stuck in a bad job, etc., long term and chronic conditions are often hardwired in the brain. People with serious chronic depression, they're not depressed because of their current life circumstances, they often had a perfectly fine family, etc., their brain is just not producing the serotonin physically or whichever hormone it was.

ADHD - again, the brain structurally has issues with focus and executive function.

Autism - brain just structurally hardwired differently from birth.

Tourette's - thought to be to do with neurotransmitters in the part of the brain that controls movement.

People with mental illnesses or neurological disabilities, their brain is generally literally physically different, that's why it's so hard to recover by yourself from a mental illness without external help in the form of e.g. therapy. And if people have, say, depression bad enough they may need to be on e.g. antidepressants for life *while also* going to therapy regularly, in order to keep the condition under control.

Can people get mental illnesses from life circumstances? Yes, as in the case of PTSD, but after someone has PTSD their brain again has physically changed from how it was before they had PTSD.

If someone has a *mild* version of a condition, they may well be able to cope with the lower amount of symptoms they show without outside assistance. But the existence of the milder versions doesn't stop the more severe versions from existing. One person with ADHD might be a bit scatterbrained but overall manage to be successful, whereas another might be completely unable to focus on one thing long enough to study or hold a job, while also living in a mess because they can't manage their chores either. Just because the first person is doing ok doesn't mean the second person wouldn't benefit from meds.

Actually, the first person may also benefit from treatment even if they seem to be functional, because perhaps they're succeeding at their job but every other part of their life is slowly spiralling out of control and they only manage their social life and their household chores because their spouse has taken on the role of reminding them to do things all the time.

Personally, with my Tourette's, I'm fortunate that when on meds, the tics are reduced enough that with effort I can appear for up to a few hours at a time to not be disabled, so I get the choice as to whether to tell people about it if I'm not going to be around them for that long at once. But back before I was on meds, I would get tics every 5-10 seconds and they would be extremely obvious ones too, so I ended up having to go around being a public service announcement for how Tourette's works because everyone would ask me about it. And if I hadn't gone on meds I imagine I would have had more trouble getting work, especially in the present era when the fashionable thing to do is have open-plan offices.

But yes, overall, mental illnesses and neurodivergencies are very real disabilities, and just because someone appears to be functioning, doesn't mean they're suddenly not disabled, that they just need to try harder, that if they (changed their diet / took up a particular exercise routine / changed job / applied more willpower / whatever) then they would no longer have any symptoms. These things are real and they require proper medical treatment just as much as physical conditions do.

Tasse

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2021, 09:21:48 AM »
I slowly lost the capacity to tolerate lectures. I can only do them now at double speed while also doing something else. Anything slower and I get too aggravated. I'm watching a 6 hour public health/infection control lecture, which UNBELIEVABLY boring since I don't even work in a clinic anymore, so I've got it going at double speed and typing here so that I can actually absorb it.

This is slightly tangential to ADHD, but I'm curious about this approach. I understand there is quite a bit of research showing that humans are terrible at multitasking, even people who think they're good at it. (Wouldn't be surprised if you know that research better than I do). Are you just an extreme outlier?

I've done my share of 2x speed lectures, but if anything I am even less capable of multitasking than average. Your description here is mind-boggling to me as a method of absorbing information.

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2021, 09:26:53 AM »
There are other neurodivergences.

I was always amazed at people with photographic memories.  How amazing that they can recall in their mind what they have seen!  And people could visualize scenes described to them!  And I never understood about counting sheep to get to sleep.  If I tried to count sheep I was seeing black sheep jumping over black fences on a moonless night during a heavy rainstorm - i.e. all black with flashes of grey.  I do dream visually and in colour, that is a different process.

Well it turns out there is a name for this - aphantasia.  My sister and I are both like this.  My DD is neurotypical for this, she can visualize - I guess she got it from her father.  She can visualize possible solutions in Sudoku, I can't.  I suck at chess, I can't see the results of possible moves in my head. 

And in school, or learning anything really, it has meant I had to thoroughly understand something, because I could not call up an image to help me remember.

We are all a bit different, because we don't know what is going on in other people's heads and how do we explain what is going on in ours?  I didn't know poeple could actually visualise things in their heads when I was a child and young adult, I found out about this in my 60s!


BookLoverL

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2021, 09:28:07 AM »
I slowly lost the capacity to tolerate lectures. I can only do them now at double speed while also doing something else. Anything slower and I get too aggravated. I'm watching a 6 hour public health/infection control lecture, which UNBELIEVABLY boring since I don't even work in a clinic anymore, so I've got it going at double speed and typing here so that I can actually absorb it.

This is slightly tangential to ADHD, but I'm curious about this approach. I understand there is quite a bit of research showing that humans are terrible at multitasking, even people who think they're good at it. (Wouldn't be surprised if you know that research better than I do). Are you just an extreme outlier?

I've done my share of 2x speed lectures, but if anything I am even less capable of multitasking than average. Your description here is mind-boggling to me as a method of absorbing information.

This reminded me that whenever I watch informational youtube videos longer than about 3 minutes these days I have to watch them at 2x speed with subtitles on or I get bored of them...

RetiredAt63

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2021, 09:32:01 AM »

This is why I've never done just one thing.

It's also given me huge diversification in professional options.

I'm seriously disabled, can't work full time, can't work standing, can't work sitting in an office chair, can't work on a computer for very long, can't work a job that can't afford me to suddenly take a week off for illness if I need to, ect, etc. So that rules out A LOT of jobs.

And yet, I have more career options than most unemployed 40 year old people because my skill set is broad.

Chopped for brevity

From the outside it looks like I had the same job my whole career.  But inside?  I taught a bunch of different courses, fall and winter were totally different.  Year to year there were changes. I was the go-to person to pick up a course at the last minute if someone went on leave.  I got my last job because I was a Jill-of-all trades in my academic area.  And I know I would not have lasted more than a few years if it had been semester after semester of the same courses.

There were lots of faculty who were totally happy teaching the same courses year after year.  And they taught them well.  I was just not them.

Tasse

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2021, 09:50:53 AM »
This reminded me that whenever I watch informational youtube videos longer than about 3 minutes these days I have to watch them at 2x speed with subtitles on or I get bored of them...

But this is just giving yourself more/faster stimulation on the one subject of focus. That doesn't strike me as weird at all. It's doing two unrelated things at once that I would guess reduces retention by a lot... except that I suspect Malcat has considered this already.

Watchmaker

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2021, 09:56:44 AM »
This reminded me that whenever I watch informational youtube videos longer than about 3 minutes these days I have to watch them at 2x speed with subtitles on or I get bored of them...

But this is just giving yourself more/faster stimulation on the one subject of focus. That doesn't strike me as weird at all. It's doing two unrelated things at once that I would guess reduces retention by a lot... except that I suspect Malcat has considered this already.

I'm interested in hearing what Malcat does as well. I may do something similar, depending on what Malcat means by doing something else. If I'm listening to an audio lecture, for example, I'll often speed it up and also embroider, play a puzzle game on my phone, or some other background activity. That activity can't be too involved or it distracts me from the lecture, but if it takes up the right amount of brain capacity, it stops my mind from wandering to other subjects.

BookLoverL

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2021, 09:59:45 AM »
This reminded me that whenever I watch informational youtube videos longer than about 3 minutes these days I have to watch them at 2x speed with subtitles on or I get bored of them...

But this is just giving yourself more/faster stimulation on the one subject of focus. That doesn't strike me as weird at all. It's doing two unrelated things at once that I would guess reduces retention by a lot... except that I suspect Malcat has considered this already.

I do also find myself doing things like doing one thing for 3 minutes, then another thing for 3 minutes, then another for 3 minutes, then back to the first thing.

Alternatively, I need to put music on to concentrate on doing chores, or I end up playing some sort of app game to occupy my hands if I need to pay attention to something I'm listening to, etc.

So there is definitely some element of multitasking in here.

I'm aware there is research that multitasking is actually detrimental regardless... but sometimes the choice isn't "do the task without multitasking" vs "do the task with multitasking", it's "do the task with multitasking" vs "don't do the task at all and get distracted and browse social media for 4 hours instead".

Full multitasking where both tasks are complex doesn't usually work for this kind of thing, though - the thing is to pair the thing you are supposed to be doing with something relatively mindless but fun, especially one that uses a different sense as the input channel.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2021, 10:00:23 AM »
My father said I have ADHD.  He's probably correct I believe I'm worse than before.  I scan through netflix titles for a long time and rarely choose one.  I want to read a book but can't seem to. Also, you know you have OCD when  a therapist says that and then you get worse. lol

Google tabs and the invention endless scrolling, hyper busyness at work,  I think this is reflexive to our technology and culture.

I think it's good to be aware of these things but not sure it matters to get an official title form an "expert." 

Why are you some people seeking to get labeled by an "authority?"

I wrote that^ haha

Why are some of you people seeking to get officially labeled by an authority?

Maybe because it's difficult to get appropriate treatment when you aren't diagnosed? There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD that you can get access to and insurance coverage for when you have a diagnosis.

Got it.  I stopped getting "treatment" long ago. When you think about it there is really no clear line with any of these labels and causes.  There's no certainty as far as I can tell.  Like I stated above though, a lot of this is cultural reflexivity, so going simple like the mmm type of lifestyle even with psychology seems most practical to treat these things.

I do read the big 3, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus.  They help me stay grounded. 

Edit, this stuck out to me:  "There are endless therapies and supports for ADHD."

I've worked with special needs kids on and off for decades. There literally are endless therapies, supports, resources, etc available.

There are so many different manifestations of ADHD, cool for you that you get by just fine without any interventions, I have always managed my dyslexia fine without supports. Some of us are lucky.

Others need interventions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think we should judge people for that.

ETA: my ex was big into reading philosophy as he had a philosophy PhD and he was a fucking lunatic, so reading philosophy, to me, isn't a great substitute for therapy when it's indicated. Maybe it is for you, but not for people who need significant help.

I can see that.  We've all seen some people that are obviously in the minority where they have no choice whatsoever to have dysfunctional symptoms. Like the ones that visibly manifest to other people, like tourettes, severe autism, just throwing some stuff out there.

It just seems to me that the vast vast majority of uncomfortable symptoms "labels" are reflexive to societies physical and mental culture. 

I said to myself, more often than not, Physicians and psychiatrists are treating symptoms of society, rather than an obviously mal-progressed physical or mental structure of the person themselves.  In other words, 100%, because we are starting to attach all of our focus on external electronics, even those people with otherwise normal physical and mental structure can develop dysfunctional behaviors and physical issues.

A good example is optometrists can mostly tell with observation and not questioning that your eyes are maladapting to observing screens and tiny screens. Those eyes are otherwise normal, but develop dysfunction as a symptom of society and it's culture.

IMO, you can extend that explanation, once again, to almost every single "label" or condition we have for people.

As a licensed medical professional who is in the process of getting another license in clinical psychology, I'm going to politely disagree with you.

That's fine.  I know most people aren't in position to agree with the fact most physical and mental conditions are symptoms of society.

Actually, most medical professionals are perfectly aware that lifestyle factors are a major contributor to health.

That's not what I'm disagreeing with.

joedad189

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2021, 10:02:38 AM »
PTF

My mom has dyslexia and my DS has ADD, maybe both.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE and learning disorders like ADHD and dyslexia
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2021, 10:22:19 AM »
I slowly lost the capacity to tolerate lectures. I can only do them now at double speed while also doing something else. Anything slower and I get too aggravated. I'm watching a 6 hour public health/infection control lecture, which UNBELIEVABLY boring since I don't even work in a clinic anymore, so I've got it going at double speed and typing here so that I can actually absorb it.

This is slightly tangential to ADHD, but I'm curious about this approach. I understand there is quite a bit of research showing that humans are terrible at multitasking, even people who think they're good at it. (Wouldn't be surprised if you know that research better than I do). Are you just an extreme outlier?

I've done my share of 2x speed lectures, but if anything I am even less capable of multitasking than average. Your description here is mind-boggling to me as a method of absorbing information.

If I needed to thoroughly absorb all of the information in detail and retain it, then no, I wouldn't multitask. But most details aren't important, and dividing my attention allows me to only casually pay attention to the vast majority of useless information and then selectively focus on the details that do matter.

Most information isn't critical to actually remember. 90% of information is just framing of the important facts and too much constant focus muddles the coding of the information.

I selectively pay full attention when the actually meat and potatoes information is presented, the rest is just context.

If I tried to pay full attention to a bunch of details I don't actually need to retain, then I would lose capacity very quickly and be less likely to absorb the key information that I need.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!