Author Topic: Finding things of value on the Internet  (Read 5030 times)

LaserCat

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Finding things of value on the Internet
« on: June 18, 2021, 12:53:06 PM »
It seemed like just a few years ago, I could do a google search and instantly find the information that I needed, or get my question answered, or find a cool new blog with just a few clicks.  Now my google searches lead me only to advertisements and "15 top things you didn't know about X" or Hey I see you've searched for one thing, but instead I'm going to pick a few words out of there and give you a totally unrelated low quality content result.

Does anyone have any ways or information on how to navigate this advertisement, low quality information web to find results that are actually relevant and of quality?  It's become so bad, I'm wondering if I should start going back to the library to start looking up answers (although libraries sadly don't seem to be keeping the huge collections that they used to).

Rusted Rose

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2021, 01:16:25 PM »
I've noticed that the Big G has fallen in quality also (like sooo many other things, unfortunately :P) and generally don't use it. Try DuckDuckGo?

scottish

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 03:29:16 PM »
The big G has been making me do a captcha test at work for some reason.   (Maybe we have a secret hacker collective)   So I've switched to Bing.

I have to say, Bing is not nearly as good at providing useful results as big G.     It's still better than having to do captchas all the time, but just barely.

FireLane

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 05:18:35 PM »
Amazon has this problem too. Good-quality products are scarce and hard to find in a sea of cheap knockoffs. Customer reviews and star ratings are so easily gamed that they don't help at all.

Despite the convenience of Amazon, I try to shop at brick-and-mortar stores whenever I possibly can. I get better results when I can see the actual product and hold it in my hands before buying it.

bloodaxe

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2021, 04:05:20 PM »
I have this problem too. Google searches direct me mostly to ads and marketed information.

My search experience improves by:

1. Using DuckDuckGo
2. Adding site:reddit.com to find useful human generated content.

Sibley

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2021, 04:20:00 PM »
I have read, but am too lazy to find sources, that google has a vested interest in directing traffic to where they want it to. If all the links on the first page are money generating, they want you click on them. Thus you may have to go to page 2 or 3 to find the actual good results.

Stores however want you to buy things. And if they make it hard to find, you're more likely to impulse buy stuff you don't need. That's why the search boxes suck, the menus don't make sense, etc. They can't direct your literal foot traffic in the store, so they try to direct your virtual traffic past more stuff.

I try not to buy from Amazon. I'm getting annoyed with google but haven't switched. Yet at least.

dcheesi

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2021, 09:50:22 AM »
Amazon has this problem too. Good-quality products are scarce and hard to find in a sea of cheap knockoffs. Customer reviews and star ratings are so easily gamed that they don't help at all.

Despite the convenience of Amazon, I try to shop at brick-and-mortar stores whenever I possibly can. I get better results when I can see the actual product and hold it in my hands before buying it.
I'm trying to avoid Amazon due to the knock-off problem as well as their worker treatment issues. I have been spending more time at other trusted sites for specific classes of items (I like Newegg for electronics, Monoprice for cables, etc.). I switched to Chewy for pet food etc., and they've been reliable so far. I've also been hitting up B&M stores, favoring in-store pickup now that I'm vaxxed (and since getting slightly burned with the direct shipping option in one case).

But some things I just don't know where to look for a reputable online vendor. It's frustrating that I can't trust Amazon anymore, it made things so much easier.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 09:52:08 AM by dcheesi »

Green_Tea

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2021, 10:45:54 AM »
[...] if they make it hard to find, you're more likely to impulse buy stuff you don't need. That's why the search boxes suck, the menus don't make sense, etc. They can't direct your literal foot traffic in the store, so they try to direct your virtual traffic past more stuff.

That's an interesting idea, thanks for the insight!

American GenX

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2021, 11:17:16 AM »

I don't know, I seem to be able to easily filter through the nonsense to find what I'm looking for with Google.  I don't just click on the first thing in the list.

Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2021, 08:23:15 AM »

I don't know, I seem to be able to easily filter through the nonsense to find what I'm looking for with Google.  I don't just click on the first thing in the list.

I can usually find what I'm looking for too. It just takes more effort now than it did a few years ago :\

I also agree with avoiding Amazon. They are my retailer of last resort. If I can't find it locally or from another website that looks reputable, I'll go to Amazon. Even then, I make a point of checking to see who the actual seller is so I'm not dealing with some third party fly by night operation.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2021, 08:40:56 AM »

I don't know, I seem to be able to easily filter through the nonsense to find what I'm looking for with Google.  I don't just click on the first thing in the list.

I can usually find what I'm looking for too. It just takes more effort now than it did a few years ago :\

I also agree with avoiding Amazon. They are my retailer of last resort. If I can't find it locally or from another website that looks reputable, I'll go to Amazon. Even then, I make a point of checking to see who the actual seller is so I'm not dealing with some third party fly by night operation.
Another thing I try to do is find a product on Amazon, but then purchase directly from the manufacturer.  Amazon takes a 15% cut (plus more if they fulfill it), and I'd rather that extra profit go to the company that made the product.

DadJokes

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2021, 08:52:52 AM »
Amazon really has become awful. It seems like every product is a cheap knockoff that gets propped up in reviews by gaming the system.

slackmax

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2021, 10:31:13 AM »
My problem is just finding an answer to a simple question. Usually something technical.  You could get the answer in 2 seconds if you could just ask a person, but searching for it on the internet gets you a million useless answers to a question you did not ask.   No answer to your specific question.


Warlord1986

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2021, 11:32:38 AM »
Amazon is awful. I just mentioned to a co-worker the other day that Jeff Bezos needs to get right with the Lord. The way that man treats his employees is shameful.

That said I'm a hypocrite because while I don't buy stuff from that site, I do sell my short stories on it. I'm seriously considering just posting my future work on FB.

therethere

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2021, 11:38:38 AM »
If I'm trying to find a recommendation or actual thoughts on something. I tend to search site:reddit.com instead of Google. It used to be you'd google something and come up with blogs to provide personal experience on things. Now basically every webpage is just an ad in one way or another, even blogs are pretty useless because they're just driven by SEP, clicks, and looking to set amazon cookies in your browser.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2021, 12:14:10 PM »
The company I work for sells through amazon, as well as directly through our website.  Our experience has been that although lots of customers purchase our products via Amazon (that's good!), Amazon is actively hostile toward sellers (that's bad), and is relentlessly money-grubbing if you want to advertise with them.

I'd love to have a browser extension that would take you from a product page on Amazon to the same product page on the manufacturer's website, so you can buy direct and help out the little guy.

FireLane

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2021, 04:11:54 PM »
And on top of all the poor-quality products and worker-treatment issues, I don't like the amount of power Amazon is accumulating. It's not good for consumers when one retailer becomes a near-monopoly like they are. The only company that can realistically compete with them is Walmart - which is just as bad!

Just Joe

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2021, 02:49:55 PM »
The company I work for sells through amazon, as well as directly through our website.  Our experience has been that although lots of customers purchase our products via Amazon (that's good!), Amazon is actively hostile toward sellers (that's bad), and is relentlessly money-grubbing if you want to advertise with them.

I'd love to have a browser extension that would take you from a product page on Amazon to the same product page on the manufacturer's website, so you can buy direct and help out the little guy.

Is it as simple a searching for the Amazon item on Google (or DuckDuckGo - my preferred search engine)?

We do a fair bit of mail order thanks to living in a smallish town. We returned to shopping in person only to find some things just aren't easy to find in stores yet. Like men's leather belts. If I had a 30 in waist perhaps but go much bigger than that and selection is non-existent in the stores I tried.

kite

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2021, 03:15:39 PM »
It seemed like just a few years ago, I could do a google search and instantly find the information that I needed, or get my question answered, or find a cool new blog with just a few clicks.  Now my google searches lead me only to advertisements and "15 top things you didn't know about X" or Hey I see you've searched for one thing, but instead I'm going to pick a few words out of there and give you a totally unrelated low quality content result.

Does anyone have any ways or information on how to navigate this advertisement, low quality information web to find results that are actually relevant and of quality?  It's become so bad, I'm wondering if I should start going back to the library to start looking up answers (although libraries sadly don't seem to be keeping the huge collections that they used to).

Google's business model is selling stuff. Your attention is one of the things they sell.
There are techniques for narrowing down a search with multiple words to fine tune results.  Obviously, that omits some results.  But content producers (who are also selling stuff) have monetized their sites with tags and the ones paying the bills are going to flood the first few pages.  You could try other search engines, too.

But what are you looking for?
There is a crap ton of really good stuff available for free on youtube.
Our washing machine stopped working, and we were able to follow videos of DIYers in taking things apart and cleaning the bits that get clogged up with lint and cause the exact problem we were having.    There's really tons of this kind of stuff.  Want a recipe for anything at all?  You don't need a book, someone has posted it somewhere in a food blog.  Lots of training for lots of things.  Decorating ideas, music, etc.  All there. All free-ish.  You'll have to watch some adds. 

Or are you looking to acquire something?  Facebook marketplace, craigslist, freecycle, nextdoor etc. ought to be stop #1 for any item.  Then thrift store before trying to source it brand new.  But even if it's just reviews.  Ask your social media group if anyone has visited the town where you think you want to go, or knows what these bugs are that are attacking your plants.  Your neighborhood or your social network is a tremendous wealth of resources. 

As for quality information -- libraries still rock. Particularly with regard to journals.  I'm speaking of scholarly journals and resources you could cite in an academic paper.  The real facts, not the bits that get watered down or downright flipped 180 degrees before they make it into a blog or news item on whether or not caffeine is good for you this week.  Do check your local library.  But also check if your alumni card gives you access (online!!!) to the library from the school you attended. I returned to school for a new degree as I head into retirement.  And that email address with @myschool.edu at the end of it unlocked access to all sorts of stuff.  The electronic resources available are incredible.   

rosarugosa

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2021, 06:31:08 AM »
I buy a lot less from Amazon and a lot more from eBay these days.  eBay has a lot of "buy it now" options and small businesses selling new merchandise.  It's not just a bunch of people selling collectibles in auction format.

ender

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2021, 06:37:50 AM »
And on top of all the poor-quality products and worker-treatment issues, I don't like the amount of power Amazon is accumulating. It's not good for consumers when one retailer becomes a near-monopoly like they are. The only company that can realistically compete with them is Walmart - which is just as bad!

I have always been intrigued to see so many people hate on Amazon for this type of thing but leave Walmart out of the picture.

I would think that the ratio of small businesses created/destroyed by Amazon vs Walmart tells the story pretty clearly.

Walmarts move into smaller towns/etc and basically kill all the local shops, who can't even remotely compete due to the supply chain efficiencies Walmart has. Amazon created a huge marketplace which enables ton of small companies to exist.

Does Amazon take advantage of those small companies? Sure. But even still, between Amazon and Walmart there's a huge discrepancy between their impact on competition.

This is a fun article to read. https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2021/amazon-walmart-nearly-tied-in-full-year-share-of-retail-sales/

Amazon dominates online sales unsurprisingly. But 2020 was the first year that people actually spent more at Amazon than Walmart. It took a global pandemic for Amazon to inch ahead of Walmart as far as total sales go.

Amazon really has become awful. It seems like every product is a cheap knockoff that gets propped up in reviews by gaming the system.

Personally I feel this is going to be their downfall. I also think this may be intentionally disregarded as a way to prop up Amazon basics.

LaserCat

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2021, 09:08:49 AM »
Quote
But what are you looking for?

Kite, I think for most of the things that you mentioned, the internet is good for.  Crafts, how tos, recipes etc.  but often I want to read someone's first hand experiences with living a certain lifestyle, or joining other people to fight an issue, or discovering quality articles related to struggles in certain communities.  I used to find information about these sorts of things on blogs, but quality blogs seem difficult to find now, the ones that do pop up in the search engines tend to mainly want to monetize or sell their books, but I think your suggestion of accessing my library's journals is a great idea!  Thank you!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 08:24:41 AM by LaserCat »

shelivesthedream

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2021, 09:15:20 AM »
I still use Google a lot, but if the initial search doesn't throw up anything good, I use the site:[whatever] functionality on a few sites I know. So, BBC Good Food for recipes, Guardian for news analysis...

I also personally search Pinterest a lot. For the things I look for (food, DIY or kid related) it's really good and I have used it enough that I find it easy to tell from the image if the eventual page will be what I'm looking for.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2021, 09:45:29 AM »
I buy a lot less from Amazon and a lot more from eBay these days.  eBay has a lot of "buy it now" options and small businesses selling new merchandise.  It's not just a bunch of people selling collectibles in auction format.

Same here. And I often find better deals on eBay than elsewhere. All our family cell phones of the last eight years or so are refurbished from eBay, and they go back on eBay when we upgrade or someone breaks a phone. Also had good success with parts for older appliances.

Re: Amazon vs Walmart... I feel like people have bandwidth for only a limited number of companies to hate on/boycott. Walmart (which IS awful) was a perfect villain in popular perception for a while, but kind of slid off the radar with the rise of Amazon. Amazon has, indeed, produced an impressive array of mom-and-pop businesses that found success in all kinds of niches. Bigger companies are now buying them out for way more than owners ever expected, enabling instant FIRE for the owners. Some of them were put out of business by Amazon Basics - but on net, way more sellers benefited from Amazon than got swallowed. It's a really shrewd strategy - Amazon Basics kills just enough sellers to make a good contribution to the bottom line, but not enough to push sellers away from the platform. If we put ethics aside, huge lost opportunity for eBay.

For advice or answers to open-ended questions: Reddit!!! If you use DuckGoGo, a handy shortcut:

!r search-phrase-whatever
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 10:31:47 AM by GodlessCommie »

kite

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2021, 03:26:17 PM »
Quote
But what are you looking for?

Kite, I think for most of the things that you mentioned, the internet is good for.  Crafts, how tos, recipes etc.  but often I want to read someone's first hand experiences with living a certain lifestyle, or dealing with a medical condition (I have my own), or joining other people to fight an issue, or discovering quality articles related to struggles in certain communities.  I used to find information about these sorts of things on blogs, but quality blogs seem difficult to find now, the ones that do pop up in the search engines tend to mainly want to monetize or sell their books, but I think your suggestion of accessing my library's journals is a great idea!  Thank you!

Have you looked at substack?  I made a one-time, prepaid subscription to one.  More as a gift to the friend starting it.  He's quite famous and moving to substack has been profitable. He's doing very well; so I'm going to let it lapse and stick to just the free parts after the year is up.  It's a quandary, because content creators ought to get paid.

I think podcasts have overtaken blogs. Writing needs editing.  But people can think out loud and just talk through a subject, or have conversations or interviews with another person.


LaserCat

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2021, 07:56:04 AM »
Quote
I think podcasts have overtaken blogs. Writing needs editing.  But people can think out loud and just talk through a subject, or have conversations or interviews with another person.

Substack seems like a cool idea!   Concerning podcasts, you might be right about that, but I much prefer reading than listening to a podcast, I find that I just don't have time to just sit there and listen to two people talk about a subject for an hour, when I can read a well written article in 20 minutes. (I also dislike how every instructional thing online is a video now, for the same reason, it takes so long to find the exact information I need in the moment.)  I used to listen to podcasts while driving, but now that I'm working from home, I don't find myself driving long distances anymore.   Perhaps this is an issue of the world moving away from the written word, or maybe it's just finding quality content for free that is becoming more difficult?   
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 08:24:21 AM by LaserCat »

JGS1980

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2021, 09:07:18 AM »
PTF

Rusted Rose

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2021, 09:57:09 AM »
I just don't have time to just sit there and listen to two people talk about a subject for an hour

Even if I had time, I can't see myself doing that! I listen to a ton of audiobooks (free from the library) and podcasts, none of it in the car (I prefer silence there most of the time. I'm weird, I know.)

I listen during walks, while doing household chores and cooking, getting dressed etc., working on something creative/artistic, and at night (flossing is WAY less boring with something to listen to. Life-changing for me, LOL). That said, I don't have others at home to pay attention to, so my routine isn't going to suit everyone.

I find there is always more quality content, though we all have different tastes so that is going to vary. And you may still prefer reading. Nothing at all wrong with that! For me I find that now, I have a harder time just sitting and reading for an hour when I could be, say, walking and getting the same content!

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2021, 11:01:06 AM »
Even if I had time, I can't see myself doing that! I listen to a ton of audiobooks (free from the library) and podcasts, none of it in the car (I prefer silence there most of the time. I'm weird, I know.)
It's not just you.  I used to listen to the radio in the car, but eventually found that silence is better for me.  I've solved lots of work-related (i.e. technical) problems during that 10 minutes of silence on the way home...

GodlessCommie

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2021, 11:34:22 AM »
"One day you are young and fun, and the next day you are turning off the radio to see better" - someone on the interwebs.

I've been doing it for a couple of years now.

kite

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2021, 01:01:25 PM »
Quote
I think podcasts have overtaken blogs. Writing needs editing.  But people can think out loud and just talk through a subject, or have conversations or interviews with another person.

Substack seems like a cool idea!   Concerning podcasts, you might be right about that, but I much prefer reading than listening to a podcast, I find that I just don't have time to just sit there and listen to two people talk about a subject for an hour, when I can read a well written article in 20 minutes. (I also dislike how every instructional thing online is a video now, for the same reason, it takes so long to find the exact information I need in the moment.)  I used to listen to podcasts while driving, but now that I'm working from home, I don't find myself driving long distances anymore.   Perhaps this is an issue of the world moving away from the written word, or maybe it's just finding quality content for free that is becoming more difficult?

LOL.  If there is a transcript, I'll read that.

I'm late to the podcast thing.  I won't pay for Netflix because I'm too cheap. When everyone in my world was talking about this Netflix special about that Tiger King dude in the first month of the pandemic lockdowns last year, I tried to learn as much as I could through Google and stumbled across the podcast about Joe Exotic.  My gym was closed and I was filling the exercise hour with long walks and got into the rhythm of listening while I walked.  It's a well produced podcast and gives the whole story without having to sit in front of a screen. 
My favorite kinds of podcasts are with book authors who have a non-fiction book that just came out.  Conventional media PR (whether NPR or commercial) typically gives only a few minutes to a given topic, usually only TED talk length at most. But podcasts can go on for an hour or two, really diving into a subject. I don't sit and listen. I'm up moving around, either walking the dog or doing some household chore. 
If I try to sit still and listen, I'm soon asleep. 

Rusted Rose

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2021, 02:11:59 PM »
Even if I had time, I can't see myself doing that! I listen to a ton of audiobooks (free from the library) and podcasts, none of it in the car (I prefer silence there most of the time. I'm weird, I know.)
It's not just you.  I used to listen to the radio in the car, but eventually found that silence is better for me.  I've solved lots of work-related (i.e. technical) problems during that 10 minutes of silence on the way home...

So then we are both weird. :)

I also find that I solve problems in silence on my walks when I put the listening on pause. This is a dying art in our larger culture I would guess.

Rusted Rose

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2021, 02:15:19 PM »
[...] I'm soon asleep.

Another thing that podcasts are good for if the subject matter is calming. If I miss something, it's not that much and I can always play that part again later.

Gee, you'd think I was being paid to shill the concept. Where do I sign up? :P

shelivesthedream

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2021, 02:51:50 PM »
I also hate that so many tutorials are in video format these days. I much prefer written instructions and diagrams.

Sibley

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2021, 03:19:46 PM »

I don't know, I seem to be able to easily filter through the nonsense to find what I'm looking for with Google.  I don't just click on the first thing in the list.

I can usually find what I'm looking for too. It just takes more effort now than it did a few years ago :\

I also agree with avoiding Amazon. They are my retailer of last resort. If I can't find it locally or from another website that looks reputable, I'll go to Amazon. Even then, I make a point of checking to see who the actual seller is so I'm not dealing with some third party fly by night operation.
Another thing I try to do is find a product on Amazon, but then purchase directly from the manufacturer.  Amazon takes a 15% cut (plus more if they fulfill it), and I'd rather that extra profit go to the company that made the product.

I do that too. And it usually works great. Except I just tried to buy a bug zapper. I found it on amazon, went and found the company's actual website, and ordered it there. They never sent it. They did refund me promptly when I found an email address and asked for the item or my money back.

Just ordered a bug zapper on amazon last night.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2021, 04:00:15 PM »
The duopolistic internet is becoming less and less useful and more and more about ads and tracking.

For google searches, try using more search terms, which makes it less likely your search simply turns up the top buyers of those terms and more likely you get a narrowed down set of sites. My searches sometimes get no results.

Here are some advanced techniques:
https://southern.libguides.com/google/searching

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2021, 05:08:07 PM »
You could always try a no track search engine, Duckduckgo, Yahoo, and Startpage come to mind.

You might still get ads but since they search engine doesn't track you there are no ads tailored to your profile. Just generic ads and depending on the search engine maybe promoted links/ads based on the current search. Also since there is no profile, there is no tailoring of your results based on your past search history or what big G has inferred about your interest/demographic/politics/news preferences.

kite

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2021, 06:36:06 PM »
[...] I'm soon asleep.

Another thing that podcasts are good for if the subject matter is calming. If I miss something, it's not that much and I can always play that part again later.

Gee, you'd think I was being paid to shill the concept. Where do I sign up? :P

Yep. The subject doesn’t even have to be calming for it to put me to sleep.  I can nod off to true crime.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2021, 07:20:16 AM »
You could always try a no track search engine, Duckduckgo, Yahoo, and Startpage come to mind.

You might still get ads but since they search engine doesn't track you there are no ads tailored to your profile. Just generic ads and depending on the search engine maybe promoted links/ads based on the current search. Also since there is no profile, there is no tailoring of your results based on your past search history or what big G has inferred about your interest/demographic/politics/news preferences.

Also best done from a browser other than Chrome, since Chrome has the ability and incentive to track you. Private/Incognito mode adds a layer of protection, too.

LaserCat

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2021, 02:07:57 PM »
Quote
So then we are both weird. :)

I also find that I solve problems in silence on my walks when I put the listening on pause. This is a dying art in our larger culture I would guess.

I actually adore silence, I hardly ever listen to music or anything.   I just like to enjoy the peace and quiet (which can actually be very difficult to find!)

ketchup

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2021, 04:11:22 PM »
I find Google/Amazon to be just as easy to navigate as ever.  *shrug*  Though I suppose I've been practicing my Google-fu daily for the last ... 15+ years?

shelivesthedream

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2021, 01:55:43 PM »
What I prize in eBay and Amazon is the ability to get a refund quickly and easily. I prefer eBay since I like to shop second hand, but both platforms are very buyer-centric in terms of refunds. If something hasn't turned up or isn't as described, I don't have to argue about it or track down some obscure customer service rep who's only contactable by phone. A few clicks and the issue is dealt with. I strongly prefer retailers who will allow me to return goods with minimal hassle.

nick663

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2021, 02:33:09 PM »
What I prize in eBay and Amazon is the ability to get a refund quickly and easily. I prefer eBay since I like to shop second hand, but both platforms are very buyer-centric in terms of refunds. If something hasn't turned up or isn't as described, I don't have to argue about it or track down some obscure customer service rep who's only contactable by phone. A few clicks and the issue is dealt with. I strongly prefer retailers who will allow me to return goods with minimal hassle.
Amazon is good about this but I do find their customer service to be lacking a bit.  I bought an item that dropped in price before I received it and instead of adjusting my purchase price, they required me to purchase another and return the original.  I even told the customer service agent I was going to do that and they wouldn't budge haha.

Ebay is super simple for returns but I hope everyone keeps in mind that most sellers are smaller.  Please don't buy 3 items with plans to return the 2 that don't fit. :)

daverobev

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2021, 06:12:37 AM »
Duckduckgo

Firefox

'Duckduckgo hide unwanted results' plugin - so if I search for something and I see results on a site I don't like the look of I can just... never see results from that site ever again.

The problem is just that SEO is a thing, and there are a few shit sites that pay content 'creators' to repackage stuff that is in demand. It is a vicious cycle unfortunately.

And pretty much all searching and site viewing goes in a private window. The only things that don't are 'important' things like banks.

Plus a good adblock and occasional checking of what cookies have been set.

And my new favourite - FreeTube. Not perfect but better than the alternative.

Edit - and after 20+ years of 'ohh I should get onto Linux' followed by 'ugh I tried it but it's crap', I'm nearly there. One laptop with Windows 7 and another with Debian. I just need a little more configuration on the Linux laptop (which is the same make and model as the Win 7 one... it was previously running W 10 but I juuuust caaaan't staaaand it - thanks MS for finally giving me enough distaste to push me over) and I'll be done.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 06:15:47 AM by daverobev »

LaineyAZ

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2021, 08:18:44 AM »
What I prize in eBay and Amazon is the ability to get a refund quickly and easily. I prefer eBay since I like to shop second hand, but both platforms are very buyer-centric in terms of refunds. If something hasn't turned up or isn't as described, I don't have to argue about it or track down some obscure customer service rep who's only contactable by phone. A few clicks and the issue is dealt with. I strongly prefer retailers who will allow me to return goods with minimal hassle.
Amazon is good about this but I do find their customer service to be lacking a bit.  I bought an item that dropped in price before I received it and instead of adjusting my purchase price, they required me to purchase another and return the original.  I even told the customer service agent I was going to do that and they wouldn't budge haha.

Ebay is super simple for returns but I hope everyone keeps in mind that most sellers are smaller.  Please don't buy 3 items with plans to return the 2 that don't fit. :)

Thank you for saying this.  I've never understood this mania for returning stuff.  I've known women who shop for clothing mostly online on a whim and then end up returning so much of it.  There's seemingly no understanding of the amount of work on the financial side for the credits or refunds, or the inspections on whether the items can be re-sold or now needs to be discarded, or the gas needed for the trucks to deliver it back to the seller, etc. 

I totally agree that returns are legitimate if it was an expensive item and it arrived damaged or not as advertised; however, if it's relatively inexpensive clothing, shoes, jewelry, household items, etc. that wasn't quite right, then consider donating it to the local shelter or thrift store.  It's out of your house, and you now have experience with the seller's items that will allow you to shop more carefully. 

shelivesthedream

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2021, 01:45:23 PM »
What I prize in eBay and Amazon is the ability to get a refund quickly and easily. I prefer eBay since I like to shop second hand, but both platforms are very buyer-centric in terms of refunds. If something hasn't turned up or isn't as described, I don't have to argue about it or track down some obscure customer service rep who's only contactable by phone. A few clicks and the issue is dealt with. I strongly prefer retailers who will allow me to return goods with minimal hassle.
Amazon is good about this but I do find their customer service to be lacking a bit.  I bought an item that dropped in price before I received it and instead of adjusting my purchase price, they required me to purchase another and return the original.  I even told the customer service agent I was going to do that and they wouldn't budge haha.

Ebay is super simple for returns but I hope everyone keeps in mind that most sellers are smaller.  Please don't buy 3 items with plans to return the 2 that don't fit. :)

Thank you for saying this.  I've never understood this mania for returning stuff.  I've known women who shop for clothing mostly online on a whim and then end up returning so much of it.  There's seemingly no understanding of the amount of work on the financial side for the credits or refunds, or the inspections on whether the items can be re-sold or now needs to be discarded, or the gas needed for the trucks to deliver it back to the seller, etc. 

I totally agree that returns are legitimate if it was an expensive item and it arrived damaged or not as advertised; however, if it's relatively inexpensive clothing, shoes, jewelry, household items, etc. that wasn't quite right, then consider donating it to the local shelter or thrift store.  It's out of your house, and you now have experience with the seller's items that will allow you to shop more carefully. 

Eh, I've sold a lot on eBay too (as a private seller, not a business) and still support their buyer-centric policies. Sellers are allowed to state "no returns" so you don't get people just not liking it much and sending it back, but it's still a cornerstone of e-commerce that if something is not as described or doesn't arrive, I don't want to have to spend ages figuring out how to complain.

I hope no one on the MMM forum is ordering hundreds of pounds worth of clothes on a whim only to return most of it because they change their mind or realise their credit card balance is higher than they thought!

nick663

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2021, 04:09:48 PM »
What I prize in eBay and Amazon is the ability to get a refund quickly and easily. I prefer eBay since I like to shop second hand, but both platforms are very buyer-centric in terms of refunds. If something hasn't turned up or isn't as described, I don't have to argue about it or track down some obscure customer service rep who's only contactable by phone. A few clicks and the issue is dealt with. I strongly prefer retailers who will allow me to return goods with minimal hassle.
Amazon is good about this but I do find their customer service to be lacking a bit.  I bought an item that dropped in price before I received it and instead of adjusting my purchase price, they required me to purchase another and return the original.  I even told the customer service agent I was going to do that and they wouldn't budge haha.

Ebay is super simple for returns but I hope everyone keeps in mind that most sellers are smaller.  Please don't buy 3 items with plans to return the 2 that don't fit. :)

Thank you for saying this.  I've never understood this mania for returning stuff.  I've known women who shop for clothing mostly online on a whim and then end up returning so much of it.  There's seemingly no understanding of the amount of work on the financial side for the credits or refunds, or the inspections on whether the items can be re-sold or now needs to be discarded, or the gas needed for the trucks to deliver it back to the seller, etc. 

I totally agree that returns are legitimate if it was an expensive item and it arrived damaged or not as advertised; however, if it's relatively inexpensive clothing, shoes, jewelry, household items, etc. that wasn't quite right, then consider donating it to the local shelter or thrift store.  It's out of your house, and you now have experience with the seller's items that will allow you to shop more carefully. 

Eh, I've sold a lot on eBay too (as a private seller, not a business) and still support their buyer-centric policies. Sellers are allowed to state "no returns" so you don't get people just not liking it much and sending it back, but it's still a cornerstone of e-commerce that if something is not as described or doesn't arrive, I don't want to have to spend ages figuring out how to complain.

I hope no one on the MMM forum is ordering hundreds of pounds worth of clothes on a whim only to return most of it because they change their mind or realise their credit card balance is higher than they thought!
You can say "no returns" but it doesn't stop a buyer from claiming the item is "significantly not as described" and requesting a return.  Complaining to eBay about an abuse of return policy is pretty much pointless.

Also, eBay offers discounts on seller fees if you meet certain criteria.  One of the criteria is usually free returns.  The overall discount on seller fees covers the fairly rare return shipping in my experience but it's pretty annoying when someone costs you $10+ in shipping because they decided to skip reading the listing.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2021, 04:29:11 PM »
You can say "no returns" but it doesn't stop a buyer from claiming the item is "significantly not as described" and requesting a return.  Complaining to eBay about an abuse of return policy is pretty much pointless.

Yep. I don't even understand why sellers are given an illusion of choice. If a customer wants to return an item, they will find a reason, eBay will back them up.

BicycleB

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2021, 02:16:20 PM »
I buy a lot less from Amazon and a lot more from eBay these days.  eBay has a lot of "buy it now" options and small businesses selling new merchandise.  It's not just a bunch of people selling collectibles in auction format.

Same here. And I often find better deals on eBay than elsewhere. All our family cell phones of the last eight years or so are refurbished from eBay, and they go back on eBay when we upgrade or someone breaks a phone. Also had good success with parts for older appliances.

Re: Amazon vs Walmart... I feel like people have bandwidth for only a limited number of companies to hate on/boycott. Walmart (which IS awful) was a perfect villain in popular perception for a while, but kind of slid off the radar with the rise of Amazon. Amazon has, indeed, produced an impressive array of mom-and-pop businesses that found success in all kinds of niches. Bigger companies are now buying them out for way more than owners ever expected, enabling instant FIRE for the owners. Some of them were put out of business by Amazon Basics - but on net, way more sellers benefited from Amazon than got swallowed. It's a really shrewd strategy - Amazon Basics kills just enough sellers to make a good contribution to the bottom line, but not enough to push sellers away from the platform. If we put ethics aside, huge lost opportunity for eBay.

For advice or answers to open-ended questions: Reddit!!! If you use DuckGoGo, a handy shortcut:

!r search-phrase-whatever


Thanks, @GodlessCommie!

thesis

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Re: Finding things of value on the Internet
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2021, 08:28:07 AM »
I'll chime in.

Some of my extended family are pretty deep into covid conspiracies, and it makes me sad. Nonetheless, I try to read the crap they post to understand the ecosystem they are soaking their brains in. When I forget the site links, I have no way of finding them on Google. But if I use Bing, I can easily find them. This, to me, is fascinating, because it appears that deliberate censorship is in place. On the one hand, I understand suppressing nonsense, on the other hand, who decides what's nonsense?

I still find stuff well enough on Google.

As for Amazon, I grow tired of their gimmicks. Every now and then they sneakily set some 3rd party store to sell an item by default, but you have to pay very close attention to catch this. I guess that's good for the store? But it splits my order up into different boxes and delivery times and that annoys me. I'm pretty sure those companies grease the hinges with a few bucks to get the default spot, and I can't say I like that. Amazon is still great for books, and as much as I love walking into a physical book store, some books are almost 50% off brand new online, so I can't justify going local when it comes to stuff like programming books. Will I pay $17 to get a book in-store as opposed to $12 online? Sure, I can live with that. Will I pay $60 instead of $30? Sorry. I have otherwise found that Amazon is really not much cheaper for most things, but the savings they offer on books and car parts are pretty great.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!