Author Topic: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation  (Read 4151 times)

AMandM

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I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« on: September 16, 2020, 05:00:49 PM »
In the last 25 years, my husband and I have eaten restaurant food for dinner maybe twice a year, and almost only when someone else invited us.  But when the lockdown started and some of our other expenses dropped, we decided to support some local small businesses and order carry-out a couple of times a month.  At the same time, my retired and FI father has come to live with us. He has treated us to carry-out a few times more.

Now I can feel myself reacting not with, "Whee! What a luxury! A table full of food that I don't have to cook or clean pots for!" but with "Chinese again? This is getting boring."

Bloop Bloop

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 05:09:04 PM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.


snowball

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 10:27:03 AM »
Well, I thought it was funny.  :)

I am currently succumbing to kitchen gadget hedonic adaptation.  First I bought a popcorn air popper.  Then a spiralizer.  Now an Instant Pot.  WHERE WILL THE MADNESS END?!

(Having fun with my new toys though, even if the shiny did wear off of the older ones.)

Rusted Rose

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 10:34:15 AM »
I am currently succumbing to kitchen gadget hedonic adaptation.  First I bought a popcorn air popper.  Then a spiralizer.  Now an Instant Pot.  WHERE WILL THE MADNESS END?!

With a waffle maker.

At least that's the direction it's going for me...

(Disclaimer: I do not plan ever to use waffle batter at all. Totally in keeping with my frequent use of things and substances off label.

Also, I find it hilarious that you included your spiralizer since, after its more than 2 years of non-use, I bought things yesterday specifically to use mine on. :D And I lurves my Instapot. But I don't much care for popcorn so at least I'm safe from that.)

/And now back to the actual discussion.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:44:51 AM by Rusted Rose »

Sibley

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 11:40:37 AM »
So, cut back. It's ok to say, you know what, this was fun and interesting for a while, but it's not cutting it anymore. Let's get back to homecooked meals.

mm1970

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 03:52:44 PM »
Well, I thought it was funny.  :)

I am currently succumbing to kitchen gadget hedonic adaptation.  First I bought a popcorn air popper.  Then a spiralizer.  Now an Instant Pot.  WHERE WILL THE MADNESS END?!

(Having fun with my new toys though, even if the shiny did wear off of the older ones.)
air fryer?  I have all those things, and a waffle maker and an Air fryer and I use all of them.
And the bread machine
And the blender
and the stand mixer (ok, I don't use that one, but my husband does.  At least that was a wedding gift...from 24 years ago).

Gone Fishing

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 07:27:40 PM »
Amazing how fast it happens! 

snowball

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 09:17:34 PM »
You guys.  Now I need a waffle maker.

Metalcat

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2020, 04:31:18 AM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.

Her point is that it's taking the fun out of it.
What's the point in spending more if it makes the experience less enjoyable?

I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

OP, I had the exact same experience with restaurants when I first started making good money. I love good food, and DH and I went out a ton, because we were DINKS and that's what DINKS do, right? Well, yeah, it got super boring, and small detail exaggeration exploded and made most experiences feel pretty m'eh, so yeah, we basically stopped going to restaurants except in rare cases and it became fun again.

Like Bloop, I have no problem spending on what I feel is truly worth it, but I am always vigilant about how spending more can really take the fun out of things.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2020, 05:37:20 AM »
Yeah, I think in most categories for most people, spending more is unlikely to lead to greater happiness, ultimately.

It's up to each one of us to figure out which categories we find worthwhile to splurge in and which categories we don't. Each person will have different categories.

Quote
I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

Thanks, I see that now, but I think I was thrown because it's a facile point. We all know on this forum that a lot of the hedonic treadmill is unnecessary or maladaptive. That said, there are categories in which more spending for a particular person could well lead to more happiness.

Metalcat

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2020, 05:50:30 AM »
Yeah, I think in most categories for most people, spending more is unlikely to lead to greater happiness, ultimately.

It's up to each one of us to figure out which categories we find worthwhile to splurge in and which categories we don't. Each person will have different categories.

Quote
I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

Thanks, I see that now, but I think I was thrown because it's a facile point. We all know on this forum that a lot of the hedonic treadmill is unnecessary or maladaptive. That said, there are categories in which more spending for a particular person could well lead to more happiness.

You say that as if everyone has had the self-reflective experience of directly noticing the negative effects of hedonic adaptation. Obviously OP hasn't before and is sharing their experience.


Bloop Bloop

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2020, 06:00:22 AM »
Fair enough. That makes sense the way you've explained it.

AMandM

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2020, 12:45:07 PM »
You say that as if everyone has had the self-reflective experience of directly noticing the negative effects of hedonic adaptation. Obviously OP hasn't before and is sharing their experience.

Thanks, Malcat, you pretty much nailed it. You're right that the spending is not the issue; both ours and my father's are budgeted for/easily affordable.  What I find fascinating is that I know all about hedonic adaptation and TDES, and yet I apparently can't help but be subject to it myself.

Plina

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2020, 01:46:15 PM »
I see it too in my life. I was backpacking for 6 months and after a while I actually was so tired of having to choose what to eat for every meal and at least a restaurant for lunch and dinner. When I started using Uber eats during a period when I stayed a little longer in a place I ordered at least two meals every time so I didn’t have to do it as often.

My previous apartment was a really nice central one with stone countertops and a washing machine. My current one is an older apartment in a not as central locations with a minuscule bathroom and no washing machine. The counter tops are of wood but they have been ruined by the previous owner. I so miss my previous apartment in another city and a washing machine of my own. It feels lime a pain in the ass to use the one in the apartment building. The only upside is that this one has a balcony with afternoon and evening sun but no electrical outlet outside. The previous one only had morning sun and about 30 min of afternoon sun but an electrical outlet so I could use my toys outside as well.

Viking Thor

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2020, 09:29:59 PM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.

Her point is that it's taking the fun out of it.
What's the point in spending more if it makes the experience less enjoyable?

I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

OP, I had the exact same experience with restaurants when I first started making good money. I love good food, and DH and I went out a ton, because we were DINKS and that's what DINKS do, right? Well, yeah, it got super boring, and small detail exaggeration exploded and made most experiences feel pretty m'eh, so yeah, we basically stopped going to restaurants except in rare cases and it became fun again.

Like Bloop, I have no problem spending on what I feel is truly worth it, but I am always vigilant about how spending more can really take the fun out of things.
of course everyone should do what makes them happy. For me, twice a year wou!d be absurd as I can afford and enjoy sometimes having takeout or eating out.

I mean if you enjoy it 4x more, but do it 2x per year vs 26x per year, that would seemingly be a bad tradeoff if you can afford it.

Metalcat

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2020, 09:45:38 PM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.

Her point is that it's taking the fun out of it.
What's the point in spending more if it makes the experience less enjoyable?

I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

OP, I had the exact same experience with restaurants when I first started making good money. I love good food, and DH and I went out a ton, because we were DINKS and that's what DINKS do, right? Well, yeah, it got super boring, and small detail exaggeration exploded and made most experiences feel pretty m'eh, so yeah, we basically stopped going to restaurants except in rare cases and it became fun again.

Like Bloop, I have no problem spending on what I feel is truly worth it, but I am always vigilant about how spending more can really take the fun out of things.
of course everyone should do what makes them happy. For me, twice a year wou!d be absurd as I can afford and enjoy sometimes having takeout or eating out.

I mean if you enjoy it 4x more, but do it 2x per year vs 26x per year, that would seemingly be a bad tradeoff if you can afford it.

Okay, yeah. I never said that people need to limit restaurants to twice a year in order to enjoy them. That would be insane for me or anyone to claim. 

OP wasn't saying that either. They said that they almost never went before and used to enjoy them a lot. Now they eat restaurant food often and are losing the joy.

I don't know what their ideal restaurant balance is, none of us can know that. Is it 3 times a year or 12 times a year or 24 times a year? Who knows, but it's also not really the point.

The point is just that it can be trippy to watch hedonic adaptation in real time as it sucks the fun out of one of your formerly fun activities when you indulge in it excessively.

soccerluvof4

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2020, 04:39:32 AM »
With the Pandemic we didnt go out to eat for 5 months? maybe ordered out twice but the DW and I the last for Saturdays have gone out to eat with a 5pm dinner reservation to make sure hardly anyone in the place. I'll admit it was awesome the first week and forceful last night! So I totally get where the OP is coming from because when I get the bill every time while I dont say it to my DW not for any real reason I just cant believe what we just spent. So I am going to be encouraging some kinda change to our "Date night" as I do think its something we need to do for our relationship since we currently have 3 kids at home 1 of college since back to online. Maybe will make the kids cook for us and then they have to leave the house! theres an idea. Yea not how i really want to spend our $ even though as said we can afford it. I cant justify it.


Here is a good article on the subject- https://www.verywellmind.com/hedonic-adaptation-4156926
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 04:44:13 AM by soccerluvof4 »

BTDretire

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2020, 06:39:06 AM »
I'm finding that I am loosening up (succumbing to hedonic adaptation) on my spending now that I have been retired 2 years. For 35 years we concerned ourselves with how each dollar was spent. At this point we spend 2.5% with two S.S. checks to come in just a few years. The S.S. checks should cover 60% of our spending. I think we can afford to loosen up!

RetiredAt63

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2020, 06:55:22 AM »
I'm finding that I am loosening up (succumbing to hedonic adaptation) on my spending now that I have been retired 2 years. For 35 years we concerned ourselves with how each dollar was spent. At this point we spend 2.5% with two S.S. checks to come in just a few years. The S.S. checks should cover 60% of our spending. I think we can afford to loosen up!

It took me more than 2 years but I have finally loosened up.  I'm living pension cheque to pension cheque. I'm   not touching principal, that is for a really nice seniors residence/nursing home down the road.   ;-)

Rosy

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2020, 10:08:54 AM »
We had a monthly budget of $250 for eating out/ordering out - so it made sense to just swap that out for curbside pick-up or delivery instead.
Pre-pandemic the only delivery we ever used was for Pizza once or twice a month. By now I discovered three excellent pizza places that deliver, two of them have a generous coupon program.
We are lucky to live in an area with so many different choices from Cajun to Brazilian to Mexican to BBQ to great Burgers and Seafood we got it all.
 
What I realized is that the excellent but expensive Thai restaurant is suddenly cheaper when we don't order two carafes of plum wine and a pot of tea:).
All those delivery charges add up - so we switched to mostly take-out that Mr. R. can pick-up on the way home from work.
Even your favorites get old and ho-hum - until you discover just how many nice pubs and fancy restaurants are actually in your area.

Even my favorite Italian restaurant that we only frequent twice a year because it tends to end up at $100 turned out to be a fabulous option.
They adjusted their menu, included family dinners and even offer several frozen pre-cooked meals. They used to do a lot of catering so now they offer pantry shopping:) online.
Without ordering a bottle of wine it is downright reasonable...

The best curry dishes ever, fish fry, home baked bread from the British Pub whose French Chef whips up the best chocolate mousse, we didn't want to give that up. It's too inconvenient for Mr. R. to pick up, but the tip and delivery charge even out the price of a couple of pints... that we now drink from home.

We're foodies and I am a passionate cook so looking for cheap take-out was never on our radar.
The point was always to enjoy a nice, different atmosphere, dress up for dinner or just hang out in a pub with good pub food and music.
I really miss that - no sunsets with Margaritas at the beach yet, but maybe soon.

Our world has changed - we're high risk, we simply cannot go out and eat - so we adjusted and make it as hedonistic:) as we like.
The only thing that matters is whether we can afford it and that we at least try to optimize.
OP - talk to your friends about their favorite restaurants, google the menus of interesting restaurants in your area...

Re - hedonic adaptation
1. I have splurged on wait-for-it:) Coldstone Ice Cream Delivery - twice in six months. Gasp!
2. ... and yeah, well for the first time in a long while - I purchased a kitchen gadget~ - a stainless steel "push bottom" pot insert for the Instapot. Good for making lasagne or cheesecake etc and removing it without destroying the cake. Came with a bonus of six mini muffin pans which is giving me some ideas.
Still considering a spiralizer ~ maybe ~


Missy B

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2020, 05:39:11 PM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.
Yup. Specially if you're supporting local business. A lot of restaurants are walking a fine line financially right now, and that more people are choosing to get takeout when they wouldn't normally is going to be make or break for many of these places.

So kudos. At some point the OP will be in hedonic recovery, training themselves to enjoy their own cooking again, and will hopefully remember that they fell off the wagon for a good cause.

Viking Thor

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2020, 09:13:01 PM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.

Her point is that it's taking the fun out of it.
What's the point in spending more if it makes the experience less enjoyable?

I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

OP, I had the exact same experience with restaurants when I first started making good money. I love good food, and DH and I went out a ton, because we were DINKS and that's what DINKS do, right? Well, yeah, it got super boring, and small detail exaggeration exploded and made most experiences feel pretty m'eh, so yeah, we basically stopped going to restaurants except in rare cases and it became fun again.

Like Bloop, I have no problem spending on what I feel is truly worth it, but I am always vigilant about how spending more can really take the fun out of things.
of course everyone should do what makes them happy. For me, twice a year wou!d be absurd as I can afford and enjoy sometimes having takeout or eating out.

I mean if you enjoy it 4x more, but do it 2x per year vs 26x per year, that would seemingly be a bad tradeoff if you can afford it.

Okay, yeah. I never said that people need to limit restaurants to twice a year in order to enjoy them. That would be insane for me or anyone to claim. 

OP wasn't saying that either. They said that they almost never went before and used to enjoy them a lot. Now they eat restaurant food often and are losing the joy.

I don't know what their ideal restaurant balance is, none of us can know that. Is it 3 times a year or 12 times a year or 24 times a year? Who knows, but it's also not really the point.

The point is just that it can be trippy to watch hedonic adaptation in real time as it sucks the fun out of one of your formerly fun activities when you indulge in it excessively.
right but 2x per year is what OP said. Actually "maybe twice a year for the last 25 years".

So to me while hedonic adaptation exists this would be a terrible example. Maybe they don't like eating out in the first place I don't know. I mean if I ate out once every 10 years i would enjoy it supremely those handful of times remaining in my life. But my lifetime enjoyment is much higher if I make it more frequent than that.

Everyone has their own balance that optimizes their enjoyment but the example of twice a month is not extreme eating out for most people.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2020, 09:26:43 PM »
Quote
I mean if I ate out once every 10 years i would enjoy it supremely those handful of times remaining in my life. But my lifetime enjoyment is much higher if I make it more frequent than that.

Everyone has their own balance that optimizes their enjoyment but the example of twice a month is not extreme eating out for most people.

That's a good point. You'll enjoy sex more often if you limit it, and certainly after a "dry spell" I treasure it more than when I'm getting sex every day. You have to find a balance.

(And yes, I know there is a financial cost to eating out that doesn't come with sex. But the financial cost of eating out, for many on these forums, is completely trivial. I mean, what's the difference between eating out 2x a month versus 2x a year? 22 extra visits to the restaurant might cost you $600 in total over a year, which for many people on this forum is an utterly trivial amount particularly when looking at overall pleasure/utility.)

Metalcat

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2020, 04:49:25 AM »
Okay.

I'm not sure if this thread is meant to be tongue in cheek but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of hedonic adaptation if your finances are sound.

Her point is that it's taking the fun out of it.
What's the point in spending more if it makes the experience less enjoyable?

I know you like to defend spending, but OP isn't complaining about the spending, they're making a really sound observation about a case of increased spending not correlating with increased enjoyment.

OP, I had the exact same experience with restaurants when I first started making good money. I love good food, and DH and I went out a ton, because we were DINKS and that's what DINKS do, right? Well, yeah, it got super boring, and small detail exaggeration exploded and made most experiences feel pretty m'eh, so yeah, we basically stopped going to restaurants except in rare cases and it became fun again.

Like Bloop, I have no problem spending on what I feel is truly worth it, but I am always vigilant about how spending more can really take the fun out of things.
of course everyone should do what makes them happy. For me, twice a year wou!d be absurd as I can afford and enjoy sometimes having takeout or eating out.

I mean if you enjoy it 4x more, but do it 2x per year vs 26x per year, that would seemingly be a bad tradeoff if you can afford it.

Okay, yeah. I never said that people need to limit restaurants to twice a year in order to enjoy them. That would be insane for me or anyone to claim. 

OP wasn't saying that either. They said that they almost never went before and used to enjoy them a lot. Now they eat restaurant food often and are losing the joy.

I don't know what their ideal restaurant balance is, none of us can know that. Is it 3 times a year or 12 times a year or 24 times a year? Who knows, but it's also not really the point.

The point is just that it can be trippy to watch hedonic adaptation in real time as it sucks the fun out of one of your formerly fun activities when you indulge in it excessively.
right but 2x per year is what OP said. Actually "maybe twice a year for the last 25 years".

So to me while hedonic adaptation exists this would be a terrible example. Maybe they don't like eating out in the first place I don't know. I mean if I ate out once every 10 years i would enjoy it supremely those handful of times remaining in my life. But my lifetime enjoyment is much higher if I make it more frequent than that.

Everyone has their own balance that optimizes their enjoyment but the example of twice a month is not extreme eating out for most people.

K, well my point is that I don't really care what the specific numbers are because they're personal to the person doing them.

If OP's numbers for unpleasant hedonic adaptation are much, much lower than someone else's, then that's their business. It doesn't take away from the experience.

Does that mean everyone needs to eat restaurant food as little as they do to enjoy it, absolutely not. For some people, that adaptation may not kick in until over 2 times a week.

Some people can get manicures every two weeks and still deeply enjoy it. Meanwhile more than a few times a year for me sucks all the fun out of it.

We all experience things differently, but we all universally are capable of experiencing negative effects of hedonic adaptation.

Viking Thor

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2020, 09:35:30 PM »
Sure,hedonic adaptation exists but there is also  the opposite of hedonic adaptation which is foolishly depriving yourself. Like someone That never spends money on experiences they enjoy and takes all their money to the grave. Or they have tons of money and always miserly and not wanting to pay their share of the tab. Those exist also just like hedonic adaptation.

So yes the numbers are different for everyone but this post is a poor lament of hedonic adaptation. I mean it's pretty much a given that you'll enjoy a treat less if you do it constantly and not thus a treat. Few people would argue with that.

But the way this post is written sounds like they go out to eat 0-2 times a year at behest of friends, not clear if they enjoyed it much to begin with. Now not enjoying more frequent (for them) restaurant meals at behest of a relative.

Not really an example many people would identify with.

A good example would be something you really enjoyed and sought out to do to do and then started doing it too much and no longer enjoyed it. But if you enjoy something it may still be worth it to do more frequently even if an individual time is less special.

undercover

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Re: I am watching myself succumbing to hedonic adaptation
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2020, 07:49:11 PM »
To me it’s more about the food itself than how it ends up in front of you. A dish that you enjoy never really gets old...sure if you order the same thing over and over that’s going to get tiring.

So I’m not sure if takeout is really lifestyle inflation...if anything it could be the reverse if you actually like procuring all the ingredients and cooking yourself. Having the time to think/shop/cook/clean your meals is actually more of a privilege than it sounds. In some cases cooking can be much more expensive depending on how long it takes you to shop and cook and clean up. We also will probably get to the point where prepared food delivered to your door is just as cheap as cooking.

I see the hedonic treadmill more like upgrading what you’ve already got to the point that you no longer get any actual benefit out of it versus substituting one thing for another. To me restaurant food is more like substitution and often a poor one at that.